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Title: "The US Air Force Shot Down Flight 93"
Source:
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URL Source: http://georgewashington.blogspot.com/
Published: May 19, 2012
Author: http://georgewashington.blogspot.com/
Post Date: 2012-05-19 18:03:51 by tom007
Keywords: None
Views: 3199
Comments: 164
"The US Air Force Shot Down Flight 93" The following comment was posted to my blog today (I do not know who the author is -- he posted semi-anonymously; so decide for yourself whether or not you believe him): "I am an Air Force veteran. I was serving at Langley AFB, Virginia on Sept. 11. (not to be confused with CIA headquarters at Langley, VA). The "Alert Squadron" of 4 F-16 Falcons also stationed at Langley AFB was scrambled AFTER the "plane" crashed into the Pentagon. Because of my position as a ground equipment mechanic, I had access to the flightline operations that day. My friends were Crew Cheifs and Weapons Loaders, among other professions on the flightline that day. One of my [unusual] duties that day was to drive a Loader (personal friend) along with a rack of live missiles (AIM-9's and AIM-120's) across the active runway to the Alert Squadron and drop them off. I was towing equipment to the flightline, so when it was time to go back and pick up the Loader (and our missile trailer) I was unable to do so, but another member of my Flight (a good friend, and later roommate) did go. According to my roommate (and I later confirmed with the Loader) the Loader was completely silent most of the trip back to our side of the base, after they crossed the active, he spoke. "They shot one down." JJ replied "WHAT?" Loader:"One of those 16's came back with one less missile than it left with" That was all. As they pulled back in to the squadron area, The loader was whisked away by his commanders for debriefing. I didn't see him for a few days, but when I did, he said he couldn't talk about it, but he confirmed that what my roommate had told me was true. The US Air Force shot down Flight 93. I haven't told this to many people. I told my parents and other family members shortly after I left the military. They didn't believe it. I figured no one else would either. I kept my mouth shut. Everyone was dedicated to the president and the country (not really) And anything that went against the Official, media delivered story was viewed as unpatriotic. I knew that I loved this country, so I kept my mouth shut. I just can't do that anymore. I know that I don't have any documents to prove it, and I have no way of knowing where the others involved are now days, so I can't prove anything. All I have is my word. and with God as my witness that is the truth."
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#1. To: tom007 (#0)
Hopefully more who know bits and pieces of this false flag op will come forward like this and help unravel the cover-up.
DUH.
Of course, and they exploited "Let's roll!" for patriotic propaganda the same way they did the murder of Pat Tillman.
Nonsense.
agree
Too damn many people watching radars to have that happen. Plus far more military and civilian ears listening.
Break the Conventions - Keep the Commandments - G.K.Chesterson Regardless of what Rummy "said" actual reality has to be accepted. For instance, over 100 people outside the Pentagon SAW the airplane, some even identified it as AA plane. Doubters said it was a missile. When they dragged the landing gear out with heavy equipment, they had no explanation.
Flight 93: Proof of 9/11 Lies by the US Government and Media An article detailing Flight 93's last minutes was briefly available at dailynews.yahoo.com on 9/11/2001. It not fit the official story of the last moments of Flight 93 and rapidly disappeared from news websites, but it can still be found at the web archive: The following eyewitness interview indicates Flight 93 was shot down: It was reported that a missile was heard before the crash: Debris fell from Flight 93 nearly six miles from the crash scene... ...human remains were found miles from the crash scene... ...light debris was found miles from the crash scene... ...and the following footage proves Flight 93 did not crash in a single piece but came apart in midair and scattered over a wide area: The military refused to rule out a shoot down on September 15, 2001... ...the Washington Envoy to Canada says Bush ordered a shoot down... ...Donald Rumsfeld said the plane was shot down... ...and in the opening remarks of a Guantanamo trial it was said the plane was shot down: Yet the official story removes all evidence of a shoot down, specifically the phone call reporting an explosion and smoke on board the aircraft while it was in flight, and the same media that carried early reports of evidence of a shoot down now parrots the official version without question. The important point here isn't the shoot down. Most people would agree that under the circumstances, it was the best course of action. The point is that we are seeing clear evidence of the manipulation of information being fed to the public regarding 9/11. What else is the government concealing about 9/11? During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act.
Concealing a great deal. Hysterical speculation and conspiracy theories enhances their lying.
I see no evidence of "hysterical speculation" or "conspiracy theories" in the article I posted above. I do see a lot of facts and eyewitness accounts. If you want to think otherwise, that's your choice. During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act.
yup. it's obvious that bin laden, in addition to organizing the pilot training, jiggering the airport security, and dispatching mossad guys to document the event, also hired invisible silent planes and/or helicopters to distribute debris for six miles anong the airliner's path before it crashed. and nevermind that rumsfeld and that whole troop of PNAC neocons was installed (by a phony election in a state governed by another PNAC member) into the american government shortly after they admitted they needed a new pearl harbor. then their new pearl harbor happened. and everything that's happened in the ten years since has followed the PNAC blueprint as outlined in the same document that noted the need for a new pearl harbor. in those ten years since 9/11, it's become obvous that bin laden was a double agent, working for the neocons to implement their plan to achieve benevolent global hegemony by killing hundreds of thousands of people, mostly oily arabs, to steal their oil. israel has nuttin' to do with nuttin', either... and neither does peak oil.
of course, one thing has not followed the PNAC plan, and that is putin, who threw a monkey wrench into the PNAC works by repossessing russian oil from israeli russians, who fled mostly to israel once putin cracked down. russia, in the best of all possible PNAC worlds, was supposed to provide oil to america while israeli america tore up the middle east oil patch and remodeled it to israeli specifications. well, the project is still in the driver's seat, but it isnt progressing nearly as fast as had been hoped for, and it was pretty much a wild hare idea in the first place, which explains why so many people are bailing out and reverting to their default position, which is looting... of course, the longer the project drags on, the longer opportunities to loot exist... the only drawback is that knowledge of israeli and radical PNAC neocon jews' role in this catastrophe is widening, and that's probably gonna go hard on little jews... but since when did big jews give a fuck about little jews? that's what the loot's for, isnt it? ...the little people get it in the shorts, and the big jews buy refuge after they've loaded the gold in the gulfstream and flitted off... because nobody in their right mind would seek refuge in israel, the mother of bad ideas.
I have to agree with Bill on this one. For me the clincher is the physical evidence which is supported circumstantially by the eyewitness reports. Ground impacts, even at high speed, do not create a debris field that extends out 8 miles. And one of the things found out at that 8 mile point was a very heavy metal door. Not very aerodynamic and any impact which would have been powerful enough to eject it out that far would have destroyed it. That is highly anomalous.
Something blew up, whether it was flight 93 or not cannot be confirmed since no independent investigators have access to the wreckage.
God is always good!
I can find thousands of people that say they have seen aliens, are you going to believe them? I sure don't. Forget what they say, look at the evidence, no huge plane hit the Pentagon, maybe no plane at all. God is always good!
of course it was shot down. the debris field according to the government itself was 8 miles long and the engine was found over a mile away from the ''field' where it supposedly crashed. How did the engine get there, did it bounce a fucking mile before it came to a rest? Absurd. Plus, there was no plane anywhere in that field. the problem with doubters is that they are confused because they swallow any bullshit the filthy government spews. only a moron would believe the government version of how 9/11 happened. Even worse, is that flight 93 actually landed safely ACCORDING TO THE CEO OF UNITED AIRLINES, THE FBI, AND MAYOR MICHAEL WHITE, who all announced that it had landed safely that day and that all the passengers were safely evacuated. See WCPO TV report on this. All this is very very well known by anyone who even did a cursory review of the 9/11/01 info. Whatever was happened , it was not the "lets roll" nonsense peddled by hollywood in nthat silly movie flight 93. "Even to the death fight for truth, and the LORD your God will battle for you". Sirach 4:28
Another one of those, "What doesn't fit and why?" datums. Along with the BBC reporting the collapse of WTC 7 a half an hour before it occurred, and with building still standing in the background of the camera shot of the reporterette making the report. i'm willing to bet that there are lots of elites --people who have a vested interest in keeping the system alive for as long as possible-- who know what happened, and wont say anything because they'd be harming their chances to loot. there are hints in pop "literature"... i was shocked to find william gibson's "pattern recognition" in the local supermarket, because their usual stuff is the kind of thing that you'd throw across the room in disgust if you were in solitary confinement with only that one book to read. but gibson mentions "scripted CNN moments"... and future american dependence on russian oil figures in the plot... gibson started the book before 9/11.... cayce pollard's dad went missing on 9/11 while he was visiting new york but she didnt know he was there... she witnessed one of the planes hitting, and watched the coverage, and gutted her laptop so she'd no longer be able to watch "scriped CNN moments". and the plot leads her to russia, where she becomes involved with the nieces of an oil oligarch who will supposedly be important in keeping america supplied with oil. so you got to wonder how widespread knowledge is, in circles that are connected and are not deliberately kept in the dark. maybe everybody knows it's closing time
good recap.
"Even to the death fight for truth, and the LORD your God will battle for you". Sirach 4:28
I doubt there even was a flight 93.
Doubters said it was a missile. When they dragged the landing gear out with heavy equipment, they had no explanation. You don't know that over 100 people SAW the airplane. All you know is that we are told that someone says that over 100 people SAW the airplane. THAT is the actual reality to be accepted. Whatever made the hole in the pentagon could obviously not have been an airliner. It's too small. If it wasn't explosives, it may have been a missile. Missiles don't have airliner landing gear. Either do bombs. So IF there was landing gear found, how did it get there? Honestly, it's disappointing to me that you would believe an airliner hit the pentagon. You almost got through that post without mentioning peak oil.
To heck with this. We know they did it and they know we know they did it. The question is what are we going to do about it? I don't think there is much we can do unless we can wake up significant amounts of people to the truth of 9/11. We alone can't bring down an empire can we? We sure can't without being organized, and any attempt at organization will be infiltrated quickly by the Mossad/CIA to defuse the revolt before it starts.
God is always good!
It's too small. There is no winning.
i forgot where in canada you are, but maybe you need to take a trip to northern alberta and observe the monkey motion those guys are going through to get oil from that sand. then you can ask yourself, "why the fuck are these assholes going to so much trouble and expense?" it's just too goddamned bad that none of you whiners can fault the logic... peak oil is serious enough, and our political system is so flawed, that peak oil is the most likely motive for their staging 9/11. we elect psychos to high government positions, psychos approved by the corporations and israel, then, remembering america's prodcuction peaked in 1970 despite the most skilled workers and most advaced techonology, these psychos lay the groundwork for their solution to peak oil. even psychopaths can learn, and what they learned was --probably from their exxon partners-- is that global oil production was due to peak, as it apparently did, seven or eight years ago. if you're a psychopath, killing a few thousand of your own people is no problem if it gives you an excuse to grab control of oil, and deprive rivals of access to oil. and if that's really no solution, the wars give you wonderful opportunities to loot... and israel was such a bad idea in the first place that you've written it off, and besides all that, you never really gave a shit about jewishness except for the fact that you could exploit the holyhoax to give yourself an exemption from criticism.
LOL, I was thinking the same thing! During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act.
profit I'm painfully familiar with your peak oil argument. I just don't believe it. I really don't know exactly what's up, but I don't think that's it. LOL, I was thinking the same thing! LOL we're paying attention :) maybe peak oil is a hoax, and production has been throttled to give us an excuse to... grab control of oil?!? i got to admit that they're doing a great job of faking it, what with drilling in 10,000 feet of water 200 miles offshore, and tearing up half of alberta, at horrible expense --both in terms of money and energy-- to produce a piddling amount of oil.
I see your point. I don't know. Maybe you're right. Who really knows. I'm going to sleep.
And I made no reference that there was. Learn to read.
wud... For all intent and reference, an airplane may as well be made out of paper that flies. It is the landing gear, engines and assorted dense interior that make the hole, not the thin skin. In my time I have seen two large, four engine aircraft blow up in mid air, crash and burn. One I saw hauled away a few days later on a flat bed truck, four engines, landing gear, part of the tail and assorted pieces of scrap.
Moron maybe. Shot down, no. Show me any statement by any person that says, "I shot down flight 93', or any person that said, "I ordered flight 93 shot down" or any person that says I heard the order given or any person that says I saw it, or any person that says I watched it done on radar. I would like to read it.
No more than I believe people that DID NOT SEE Flt 93 crash. They admit they were not there, saw nothing, heard nothing.
I admit, I was not there, I saw nothing. Does the government lie???? Certainly. Do they lie when they have NO CONTROL over hundreds of people involved? No. Case in point, USS Liberty. Government had total control of all persons involved, tried to contain the episode by lying,and intimidating the crew, it did not work.
Bill... Jabbing a stick into a hornets nest ALWAYS brings a swarm of very angry hornets. One can either run or wear a veil of common sense that thwarts the hornets.
how did lisa jefferson know whe was talking to todd beamer?
You are evading the issues Cyni. What is the physical evidence telling us? Doors are not ejected 8 miles from a crash impact site - unless the plane is in a hypersonic flight path and probably not even then. Engines are not ejected a mile from a crash site. The debris field from a normal crash is less than a quarter mile. We have eyewitness reports of debris raining down 8 miles out. The only way that happens is if the aircraft was already breaking up in the air. So, eyewitness reports exist of people seeing what they believe were military aircraft operating in the area. Between the debris field and the various witness reports the explanation that best seems to fit is that the aircraft was shot down. You may want to resist that conclusion, but in the end it is not my conclusion to make for you, but what does the evidence suggest? Just because a missile went missing doesn't mean it hit flight 93.
"The few who understand the [FEDERAL RESERVE] system will either be so interested in its profits or be so dependent upon its favours that there will be no opposition from that class, while on the other hand, the great body of people, mentally incapable of comprehending the tremendous advantage that capital derives from the system, will bear its burdens without complaint, and perhaps without even suspecting that the system is inimical to their interests." The Rothschild brothers of London writing to associates in New York, 1863.
No idea. I committed nothing to memory.
we're not talking about memory... we're talking about logic. if the neocons had technology enough to fly the airplanes into those buildings, they surely had the technology to spoof phone calls from "todd beamer" to lisa jefferson... do you remember all those AEI yahoos on television commenting on 9/11? ...they're all saying, "hey, it took years to plan this operation!" how did they know it took bin laden years to plan the operation? ...because it took them years to plan the operation? and this "todd beamer/let's roll" operation went off without a hitch, didnt it? ...because it was one of those little touches that they had years to plan... ...meanwhile, the jessica lynch operation, a comparable operation with an ad hoc sort of feel to it, failed, because they improvised it, and unfortunately, jessica survived to debunk it.
So, eyewitness reports exist of people seeing what they....... believe were military...... aircraft operating in the area. OI, therein lies the problem with speculation, people honestly believe, after the fact what they saw or heard. They may well be right but they also may be wrong. There were dozens of people, military and civilian, that were watching all of this unfold on radar. To my knowledge there has not been one person that has stepped forward and acknowledged a shoot down, witnessed by them on radar, not one. Accepting a shoot down, there was no way all the civilians could have been muzzled. Not one person involved in the shoot down has ever stepped forward, not one. It is all conjecture and speculation based on what people believe.
Not logic at all, nothing but conjecture, speculation and even wishful thinking.
...during an excercise that was designed to befuddle radar operators by giving them phony bogies on their screens.
the logic says that, if neocons needed a new pearl harbor, and got into position to make their new pearl harbor happen, they made it happen.
Nonsense.
is ignorance an excuse if you're olde enough? operations northern vigilance and vigilant guardian what kind of dog do you have in this fight?
I do not respond to personal posts. Keep it impersonal please.
so cyicom is unable to explan the debris trail, he refuses to acknowledge the possibility that lisa jefferson never talked to todd beamer. he refuses to acknowledge the similarities between the todd beamer operation and jessica lynch, and he's ignorant of the simulated attack on america that was taking place on 9/11. he refuses to acknowledge that PNAC admitted they needed a new pearl harbor, and their new pearl harbor happened soon after they got into position to make it happen. he refuses to acknowledge the pattern of deception that underlies the whole 9- 11/PNAC/AEI/"war on terror" operation. why is all that?
What else is the government concealing about 9/11? Like who did it. Hard fact. Tom... Want to hear my take on who did it????
This is true. Boy, did you ever stir up trouble Cyni :P
the PNAC people had been planning the operation for decades... the technology matured, peak oil was looming, israel was getting in deeper and deeper shit as it was condemned for its abuse of palestinians by the human rights conference in durban just before 9/11... surprisingly, the human rights conference was getting lots of play in the american media, but 9/11 put an end to that, and solidified israeli control of america. so, taking all that into mind, especially the fact that these people had decades to plan, it's no wonder that the todd beamer/let's roll operation was such a success... and by virtue of its success, the operation becomes suspect, especially when so much contradictory evidence exists, especially when the operation follows such a well-established pattern of deception. it could have happened just like the official conspiracy theory says... but there are some pretty serious unanswered questions... and the whole atmosphere surrounding the operation and subsequent events is poisonous.
Very true.
but cynicom likes this particular dose of poison
Interesting reading... Witnesses...... A message to 9/11 conspiracists from someone who was at the Pentagon on 9/11. Please take it to heart. It is likely that hundreds of people directly saw flight 77 hit the Pentagon. Dozens were interviewed by numerous news outlets: Witness List 1 – List 2 – List 3 – List 4 – List 5 – More Pentagon witness spreadsheet (Excel file) Many witnesses were in their cars, in a traffic jam directly in front of the Pentagon. Most of those people drove away and were not interviewed. Below is a summary of the accounts quoted in the lists and spreadsheet summary above. These are mostly accounts that appeared in mainstream media reports. Many more people probably witnessed the attack. From the lists above, 136 people saw the plane approach the Pentagon, and 104 directly saw the plane hit the Pentagon. 6 were nearly hit by the plane in front of the Pentagon. Several others were within 100-200 feet of the impact. 26 mentioned that it was an American Airlines jet. 39 others mentioned that it was a large jet/commercial airliner. 2 described a smaller corporate jet. 1 described a "commuter plane" but didn't mention the size. 7 said it was a Boeing 757. 8 witnesses were pilots. One witness was an Air Traffic Controller and Pentagon tower Chief. 2 witnesses were firefighters working on their truck at the Pentagon heliport. 4 made radio calls to inform emergency services that a plane had hit the Pentagon. 10 said the plane's flaps and landing gear were not deployed (1 thought landing gear struck a light pole). 16 mentioned seeing the plane hit light poles/trees, or were next to to the poles when it happened. Another 8 mentioned the light poles being knocked down: it's unknown if they saw them hit. 42 mentioned seeing aircraft debris. 4 mentioned seeing airline seats. 3 mentioned engine parts. 2 mentioned bodies still strapped into seats. 15 mentioned smelling or contacting aviation/jet fuel. 3 had vehicles damaged by light poles or aircraft debris. Several saw other occupied vehicles damaged. 3 took photographs of the aftermath. Many mentioned false alarm warnings of other incoming planes after the crash. One said "3-4 warnings." And of course, 0 saw a military aircraft or missile strike the Pentagon. 0 saw a plane narrowly miss the Pentagon and fly away. Video: pilot Aziz ElHallan saw flight 77 hit Pentagon, shows aircraft debris that landed near his car. No plane hit the Pentagon? Tell that to Mickey Bell, Sean Boger, Omar Campo, Michael DiPaula, Frank Probst, and Jack Singleton, all of whom saw flight 77 approach and came within feet of being struck as it roared across the Pentagon lawn. Probst dove out of the way to avoid being hit by the 757's right engine, which tore through this fence and damaged the construction generator trailer at right:
cynicom seems to think he's on more solid ground when he confirms the official conspiracy theory of the pentagon strike. maybe he's given up on the pennsylvania crash/shootdown or whatever it was.
Can we please keep on the subject, not personal attacking??? If you have time, this is a short video done by the pilot of the AC130 that was in the area.''He was there, he saw it, he reported and it and it is on tape.
you can dish it out, but you cant take it, huh? poor poor baby cynicom... you can attack me, because you're a holyhoax survivor, but i cant attack you back. i know how the game is played.
When a man has an empty quiver it always shows, for they turn to personal attacks.
lol.....the Pentagon is known for truth, transparency and accuracy. The Pentagon would NEVER alter a spreadsheet. " If you cannot govern yourself, you will be governed by assholes. " Randge, Poet de Forum, 1/11/11 "Life's tough, and even tougher if you're stupid." --John Wayne
which is why you attack me, but cant refute my arguments. meanwhile, arguing about these details is pointless... the facts remain... PNAC, spawned by the AEI, who are jewish neocons allied with the likud party of israel, said they needed a new pearl harbor. they were then installed into positions from which they could make their new pearl harbor happen, then their new pearl harbor happened... and the official conspiracy theory explaining 9/11 and subsequent events is so full of holes that you got to be an idiot to really believe it... but it's a plan to keep the system alive for a while longer, so lots of people give lip service to the official theoryeven if they know it's a crock, because they want to deny reality as long as possible. with any luck at all, we can prolong the agony until we all get rich enough to buy refuge once the shit hits the fan.
For sure. So far however I have seen no one prove otherwise. A plane hit the Pentagon, they could not lie about that as too many people saw it. Of course people that were not there and saw nothing know better and spread only the gospel.
I am willing to talk with anyone that was there that day and saw a missile at the Pentagon, or anyone that saw the shoot down in Pa. No one here claims such.
are you willing to admit that the todd beamer story fits the pattern of deception that seems to be standard operating procedure for the neocons? how do you explain the debris trail? or are we all being victimized by propaganda and disinformation that's designed to confuse us and set us at each other's throats? who would benefit from such a campaign?
If what you state is true, then why doesn't the Pentagon simply release the MULTIPLE VIDEOS that would substantiate this claim? Every angle is in the possession of the Pentagon. Yet, only one video that doesn't show a plane or prove their allegations one iota is all that is released. In fact, the Pentagon went around and confiscated EVERY VIDEO from PRIVATE business surveillance and refuse to return it to the rightful owners. Now, tell me Cyni, why go to all that trouble if what they claim is the truth? People are prone to "see" what they believe is plausible, but that doesn't mean they are accurate. And still, your "witness list" is all courtesy of the Pentagon and you agree that this source is not reliable. Also, you discount the hundreds of witnesses who DO NOT report what the Pentagon witnesses report. Are their accounts somehow less relevant than your Pentagon spreadsheet? " If you cannot govern yourself, you will be governed by assholes. " Randge, Poet de Forum, 1/11/11 "Life's tough, and even tougher if you're stupid." --John Wayne
and i really got to say, cynicom, that you're a dismal little prick when you whine about me attacking you after you attack me. what is it that gives you immunity from payback?
how do you explain the debris trail? Admit nothing and explain nothing. really not interested in speculative theories, prefer to go with what those involved saw and heard etc. Yet to see or read of one person that says they saw the plane shot down. perhaps I missed something. Hundreds saw a plane hit the Pentagon, yet no one saw a missile. Yet people not there say it was a missile. sort of an imbalance there. Plane was shot down but no one saw it. Thin gruel there.
thin gruel that the plane left a debris trail for miles in its wake before it crashed.
Not a clue. Not releasing a tape does not negate what hundreds saw, or smelled. I really doubt that the gubmint got all of those people to lie and say they saw an airplane. Sort of a contradiction.
This gal was IN THE PENTAGON at the time......does she count as a credible witness? She says NO PLANE and she escaped the building from the hole that was way to small for a 747 to fly through. No evidence of a plane, no jet fuel, no seats, no plane debris, nobody else in the area saw any evidence of a plane. Do you think she is included in the Pentagon spreadsheet? " If you cannot govern yourself, you will be governed by assholes. " Randge, Poet de Forum, 1/11/11 "Life's tough, and even tougher if you're stupid." --John Wayne
the todd beamer story doesnt make much sense to me, from a psychological standpoint. beamer tries to call his wife, then supposedly chats and prays for 13 minutes with a perfect stranger before deciding to "roll"... this after an attempted call to his wife is derailed to a verizon supervisor. wouldnt any normal person be demanding to talk to his wife rather than talking to a stranger, especially once he was informed of the attacks on the wtc?
When the gubmint lies, most of the time, they love it when the masses resort to conspiracy theories, speculation and plain ignorance as it helps confuse the issue and cover the tracks that the masses have no indication of.
i mean, it's implicit in the offical conspiracy theory that todd beamer was about to commit suicide to save... whoever... at the supposed target, yet he has no last words he wants to say to his wife?
You offer not one iota of commentary from your "witness list" and not one video of them stating what you claim that they saw. All you offer to the discussion is a Pentagon spreadsheet summation.......yet, you discount an eye witness account of a person in the impact area at the Pentagon on that date. We are experiencing some credibility difficulty here Cyni. You agree that the Pentagon is not reliable, yet this is all you offer to support your position. Can you do better or is repeating the Pentagon account with a nebulous spreadsheet all you got? Here is another witness that contradicts the Pentagon spreadsheet data Pentagon account from an eye witness with a video camera, in fact he offers the video evidence of the hole in the Pentagon being way too small for a 747 and substantiates no wreckage from a plane: " If you cannot govern yourself, you will be governed by assholes. " Randge, Poet de Forum, 1/11/11 "Life's tough, and even tougher if you're stupid." --John Wayne
the official conspiracy theories are so fishy that they'd make enough tuna sandwiches to feed china for the next 150 years.
No, they love it when the masses roll over and accept a Pentagon spreadsheet as evidence to what they told the masses happened. They love it even more when the same gullible masses who accept without question the storyline provided, negate the critically thinking masses who call bs on the government account. Speculation and plain ignorance? I think that is what is required to accept the government story without question. Tell me how a 747 went through a hole the size of a garage door? " If you cannot govern yourself, you will be governed by assholes. " Randge, Poet de Forum, 1/11/11 "Life's tough, and even tougher if you're stupid." --John Wayne
Where's the plane Cyni? How did it impact without breaking windows? Where are the engines? Where's that 125 foot wingspan? One hole 14-16 feet....757? Something doesn't fit here, can you tell me what it is? " If you cannot govern yourself, you will be governed by assholes. " Randge, Poet de Forum, 1/11/11 "Life's tough, and even tougher if you're stupid." --John Wayne
More witnesses reporting some sort of "missile" or craft much smaller than a 757. Lots of witnesses here Cyni.....do you think they were included in the Pentagon spreadsheet? " If you cannot govern yourself, you will be governed by assholes. " Randge, Poet de Forum, 1/11/11 "Life's tough, and even tougher if you're stupid." --John Wayne
All Cyni dishes out is facts, figures and comments that causes intelligent and objective people to think. I, on the other hand, will dish out anything I see fit and I see fit to tell you I think you are an asshole. Can I take your shit? You bet I can. Four brothers taught me how to fight the good fight, so "dukes up"!!!
lol i dont have fisticuffs with girls
I do not consider a Pentagon spread sheet to be fact or figure....... " If you cannot govern yourself, you will be governed by assholes. " Randge, Poet de Forum, 1/11/11 "Life's tough, and even tougher if you're stupid." --John Wayne
Ever watch a plane blow up, crash???? Not much left AB, gear, engines, odds and ends. Plane is just a thin skin metal tube. There are hundreds of fotos on net showing the result, including the landing gear, inside the Pentagon. In fact, the serial number on the gear was tracked back to the manufacturer, who they sold it to and what company installed it in the airplane that hit the Pentagon. That chain of events included dozens of people with no interest.
Not much left AB, gear, engines, odds and ends. Obviously, you did not watch the videos provided for you. There is PLENTY of debris left when a place crashes as the multiple photos indicate. The Pentagon is the outlier, not the norm. Blow up? How did the plane blow up Cyni? Again, how did a 757 fit through a 16 foot hole? Why do you not substantiate any of your data points? If it is true, it should be easy enough to do. I've provided you eye witness accounts, testimony of pilots, photos of multiple plane crashed depicted the debris field, basic physics data, ground effect, flight patterns etc. Can you not do the same? " If you cannot govern yourself, you will be governed by assholes. " Randge, Poet de Forum, 1/11/11 "Life's tough, and even tougher if you're stupid." --John Wayne
Another eye witness......"It was like a cruise missile with wings..." Let's see here, could a cruise missile fit into a 16 foot hole? Why, yes it could. Could a 757 fit into a 16 foot hole? No, not possible. " If you cannot govern yourself, you will be governed by assholes. " Randge, Poet de Forum, 1/11/11 "Life's tough, and even tougher if you're stupid." --John Wayne
Again, how did a 757 fit through a 16 foot hole? Engine fire on takeoff. Skin of all aircraft is very very thin, very light density. As photos showed the insides of the aircraft did in fact enter the Pentagon and there were numerous people that saw bodies still strapped in their seats. Those were from firemen that had run for their lives as it was coming directly at them. The firemen were there, they saw a plane coming and ran. They were there.
Everyone should question anything government presents for proof of anything else. However, given Cyni's knowledge of how certain governmental agencies work, I will accept what he refers to as much more factual than a missile into the Pentagon on 9/11 or a military plane shooting down the flight in PA. I have a lifelong friend who worked for the Pentagon until she retired this year who found herself in both D.C. and Langley every week. She was supposed to have been in the very wing of the Pentagon that was hit on 9/11, but because of three members of the committee meeting on that day being located in a Defense Department office in Alexandria, VA, she changed the meeting to that location. Therefore, she saw the remains of what happened within hours of the occurrence. I will take her word of what occurred, what remained and what she personally observed over any conspiracy theorist.
If she had been there and survived, Cyni would dismiss her eye witness account if it didn't correlate with the government storyline......that's what he did with the gal's testimony I posted. This lady saw it and walked out of the 16 foot hole that was supposed to have been made by a 44 foot tall 757. How does a 757 fit through a 16 foot hold Phant? Are you going to ignore this basic question like Cyni does? " If you cannot govern yourself, you will be governed by assholes. " Randge, Poet de Forum, 1/11/11 "Life's tough, and even tougher if you're stupid." --John Wayne
As photos showed lol.....the plane that was to have hit the Pentagon had been in the air for hours Cyni. Show me your photos as I have never seen them. Fireman have provided all sorts of no debris testimony, no burning of office equipment, no burning of books......etc. It is in the video I posted. Why are your firemen, with no actual testimony or video provided for review, somehow more relevant that the actual testimony and videos I have provided for you? I haven't seen one fireman account to substantiate your claims......not one. " If you cannot govern yourself, you will be governed by assholes. " Randge, Poet de Forum, 1/11/11 "Life's tough, and even tougher if you're stupid." --John Wayne
One has to sit back and view the entire conspiracy to see that it would be impossible for the government to encourage hundreds of people to lie and never tell the truth. Some of the witnesses at the Pentagon were foreigners that just happened to be in the country on vacation. How on earth did the government get them to lie, that they saw an airplane, that is what they said they saw. I will accept the word of the firemen that ran for their lives and were the first ones to see inside.
My first reaction was that you often find different explanations for the same event from all those who witnessed or endured the event. However, I have passed what you posted on to my friend and await her response. I will share her comments with you when I receive them.
When are you going to post "the word of the firemen" for the lot of us? Or is this like all those Pentagon video tapes that are "classified" and not for public view? " If you cannot govern yourself, you will be governed by assholes. " Randge, Poet de Forum, 1/11/11 "Life's tough, and even tougher if you're stupid." --John Wayne
I would like an explanation for two salient questions. How does a 757 fit into a 16 foot hole? Where did the 125 feet of wingspan go? Why wasn't the building damaged 125 feet across and 44 feet into the air? The 16 foot hole was evident for 45 minutes after impact prior to the larger building collapse. This is a fact. People exited the Pentagon through this hole. There is ample video coverage of this hole. Where is the 757? " If you cannot govern yourself, you will be governed by assholes. " Randge, Poet de Forum, 1/11/11 "Life's tough, and even tougher if you're stupid." --John Wayne
AB... Here is but one reference with photos taken at the time of the incident It will take some time to read the entire material. Photos of the firemen and their testimony. http://sites.google.com/site/wtc7lies/911pentagonflight77evidencesummary
Numerous photos of the 16 foot hole that was the only hole evident for over 40 minutes. Again, how does a 757 fit into a 16 foot hole? Where did the 125 feet of wingspan go and why didn't it damage the building? A 757 is 44 feet tall, Cyni. This is a fact. " If you cannot govern yourself, you will be governed by assholes. " Randge, Poet de Forum, 1/11/11 "Life's tough, and even tougher if you're stupid." --John Wayne
Again, how does a 757 fit into a 16 foot hole? Where did the 125 feet of wingspan go and why didn't it damage the building? A 757 is 44 feet tall, Cyni. This is a fact. Don't forget about that amazing Pentagon lawn that can take a 757 flying a foot or two over it and remain in perfect condition. The landscape crew at the Pentagon is second to none! ;) God is always good!
You just read the testimony of men that were there, ran for their lives and were the first responders to see bodies strapped in their seats once the fire was out. Again AB, an airplane, including wings and tail are thin skinned, hollow tubes of low density that have little impact on very dense, thick brick, concrete and metal walls. Take time to look at the thickness of the wall, which I is suspect would be two feet. The aircraft is lightweight aluminum less than a quarter inch thick. Take a straw, jam it into the wall see what happens, take a spike, jam it into a wall, see what happens.
Again AB, an airplane, including wings and tail are thin skinned, hollow tubes of low density that have little impact on very dense, thick brick, concrete and metal walls. take a spike, jam it into a wall, see what happens. I'm waiting for you to provide this testimony. Where is it? Again, you have a mass traveling at maximum speed impacting a building......125 feet across and 44 feet high. HOW DOES IT ONLY MAKE A 16 FOOT HOLE? This is simple physics to which you are tap dancing around. The windows in the building were INTACT for crying out loud. The lawn is PRISTINE. The hole is 16 feet! Wall thickness is irrelevant.......would a plane break a window or not? A spike leaves a hole in the wall the same diameter as the spike. Yet, you are claiming a 757 shrinks from 44 feet in height and 125 feet across to accommodate a 16 feet hole and does so without breaking a window! That makes no sense whatsoever. " If you cannot govern yourself, you will be governed by assholes. " Randge, Poet de Forum, 1/11/11 "Life's tough, and even tougher if you're stupid." --John Wayne
AB... Just had a PM requesting where the aircraft and people went to if a missile hit the Pentagon. One explanation was the actual aircraft was remotely controlled out over the Atlantic and ditched. I did not put much faith in that. Another said the plane and people landed in Mexico, never to be seen again. Difficult to make it disappear, unless it crashes and burns, that is the easiest way.
You cannot mean that. If you ever watch TV you must have seen video of aircraft and missiles being flown into solid reinforced concrete blocks. It is in slow motion, watch what happens to the aircraft.
I have to have my lunch and a senior nap. Yall play nice while I am gone. Cyni...
Watch what a plane hitting a building looks like........no shrinkage! Note that the hole is equivalent to the plane. Wing marks penetrate the building. Landing gear accounted for. Two stories gone from the building....yet the building doesn't collapse and steel doesn't melt. " If you cannot govern yourself, you will be governed by assholes. " Randge, Poet de Forum, 1/11/11 "Life's tough, and even tougher if you're stupid." --John Wayne
Disposing of a half load of people on a 757 would be very difficult for our government. /sarc Not sure where the 757 went Cyni.....what I have no doubt of is that the 757 did not hit the Pentagon with an impact hole of 16 feet without the 125 feet of wingspan breaking a window or the 44 feet in height making an impact or disrupting the Pentalawn. This I know for certain. " If you cannot govern yourself, you will be governed by assholes. " Randge, Poet de Forum, 1/11/11 "Life's tough, and even tougher if you're stupid." --John Wayne
The problem I have with the Pentagon attack isn't about what hit the building, but how some less than novice pilots managed to perform a stunt that any legit pilot could only fantasize of pulling off. I have an uncle who was a Lt. Col. in the Marines that flew fighter jets for 12 years and he laughed at the notion that a couple of guys who weren't capable of piloting a piper cub could do what was done that day in a commerciaql jet.
That's because they were all put under gag order. In fact other than the first day or two you will see no flight controller commenting anywhere at anytime about what they saw that day. Exactly. Hani Hanjour, who was allegedly at the controls of the Pentagram plane, couldn't even rent a Cessna 172 - after a test flight the guy who checked him out refused to sign off that he was even competent to fly that. Every Flight Instructor who worked with him is on record as saying that he was incompetent as a pilot, and had never flown a jet aircraft of any kind at any time prior to 911. A good number of Professional Pilots have looked at the maneuver and flat said that even a well trained and experienced professional pilot would have found the maneuver nearly impossible if not outright impossible. The problem being the physics of low level flight and that the plane would have been unstable due to tip vortices and be pushed up very forcefully because of the proximity of the ground and the velocity of the plane. In order for them to pull off a stunt with that kind off precision, there woud have to have been a j-dam system rigged into the nose or underside of the plane and a spotter painting the target with a laser. Wasn't a C-130 seen in the area shortly after the strike?
I believe that is correct and also in NYC. Sure you are, sweetheart. I sense a disturbance in the farce. Much gnashing will ensue.
That is true. I once witnessed an armed robbery & along with asian eyewitnesses, couldve sworn the perp was black. But 2 black guys claimed he was white. I thought they were a rouse to throw off the cops. But, he WAS white & caught. Wow. "Even to the death fight for truth, and the LORD your God will battle for you". Sirach 4:28
THE CLAIM THAT THE PENTAGON WAS NOT STRUCK BY A PLANE IS DELIBERATE DISINFORMATION As can be seen by the above, there are photos which show the wreckage of the aircraft that struck the Pentagon. The claim that there was no plane that hit the Pentagon was never credible. If the plane hadn't hit the Pentagon, where had it gone? There were simply too many witnesses to the plane for it not to exist. One of the earliest clues that this was a deliberate operation by an intelligence agency was the sheer volume of emails insisting that this issue HAD to be looked at. Sometimes the spooks betray themselves with their own heavy handedness. So, why would anyone work so hard to try to establish such an obviously phony straw man? The truth is that the US Government's credibility within the nation and around the world has hit an all time low. Traffic at this website has quadrupled in just the last week alone, with about 50,000 accesses per day of the main article page. The US Government has had a long history of trying to trip up critics of the government with phony planted stories, in order to discredit and embarrass them. Such certainly seems to be the case now. Government operatives have been feeding this bogus claim that there was no plane impact on the Pentagon all over the internet, while the media tries to claim that this idea is the generally accepted view of all government critics. Then, when the government hands out photos of the actual impact taken by a security camera, the same media will work hard to dismiss all critics of the government, indeed the internet community as a whole, as not worthy of serious note. Intelligence agencies call the practice "poisoning the well", and like staging fake terror attacks on ones own people to start a war, such dirty tricks have been used by governments for thousands of years. The "umbrella gun" in the House Select Committee On Assassinations was a similar operation. More recently, during open congressional hearings into public concerns about government abuse, a plant was sent in, dressed in camouflage fatigues, to scream about the secret government tornado making machines. This planted operative became the focus of the media's subsequent campaign to dismiss anyone who would be concerned over government abuse as not worthy of notice. Have no doubt; right now there is a war being waged for the minds of America, and the internet is the high ground. The government always plays dirty, because anyone who still plays fair will be at an automatic disadvantage. This story that the plane did not hit the Pentagon was obviously flawed, primarily because it did not account for where the uncrashed plane went off to. So, think about all the people who tried to sell you this lemon (in my case, many of the return email addresses were fakes), and recognize that they are either idiots or government stooges. Note the timing of the phony story, appearing just at the right moment to distract attention away from the Israeli spy scandal, right when the United States, even as it tries to conceal the existence of the spy ring, rounds up the Israelis and deports them.. Even now, after more photos have been released of the plane's impact into the Pentagon, the shills are still wandering around the internet, trying to keep the "debate" going over whether there is an airplane or there isn't. The aircraft itself isn't the issue; tricking the public into paying attention to the debate is the real goal because if the public is paying attention to the various parties pretending to argue over whether there is an airplane or not, then the public is NOT paying attention to what the government spooks don't want the public paying attention to, namely the Israeli spies and their connection to the events of 9-11. This is why, even though the claim that Flight 77 had not hit the Pentagon never explained where flight 77 went off to if it didn't hit the Pentagon, even though photos have surfaced of the aircraft debris and even though there are witnesses that saw the plane, the spooks are working even harder to try to keep this story alive; to manufacture a false debate as an attractant, because this is the only way they can control what the public is looking at, to keep the public from looking at the spy scandal and what it means that the United States Government CLASSIFIED the evidence that linked those Israeli spies to the events of 9-11. Everyone who is still trying to keep this missing plane story alive, to manufacture a controversy where none really exists, to distract from the Israel spy scandal, is either an idiot or working for the governments of the United States and of Israel.
While I understand Mike's point of view I respectfully disagree. Yes, something hit the Pentagon, but was it Flt 77? That is the real question here. Not whether something hit the Pentagram, BUT what hit the Pentagram? As David Copperfield has proven, by making an airliner disappear, the hand is quicker than the eye and it is possible to use sleight of hand to pull off a large trick. Air Traffic Controllers, before they were gagged and ordered to silence, reported that the observed maneuvers of what was supposed to be Flt 77 resembled that of a high performance military aircraft. This by a known incompetent pilot who never in his life had flown a jet aircraft of any size, shape, or form. There are a series of real physical problems with presuming it was Flt 77. Wing Tip vortices are produced by the aircraft at low altitudes making flight unstable. At the alleged altitude of Flt 77 it would be almost impossible to control a 757 at that altitude. Aeodynamics - a plane with that much wing surface that low to the ground is going to be pushed very forcibly upwards by air pressure. (You can confirm that with Professional Pilots and Aeronautical Engineers both.) There are, when you begin analyzing it closely, contradictions in the supposed eyewitness testimony which suggests two different flight paths OR two different planes. (This is what suggests what I call the "David Copperfield Scenario" where two aircraft are used - one for the impact and the other flies over the top of the building and out of sight. It requires tight timing but is not impossible.) My own thought is that it was some variation of the "David Copperfield Scenario" and that is what the disinformation is intended to obscure. I don't think it was a Cruise Missile as that would be too small. After looking at a lot of different possibilities the one I lean toward is that an S-3 (a twin engine Anti-Submarine Warfare jet) loaded with explosives was painted to look like AA Flt 77. In the few seconds it would be visible the inexperienced eye would pick up the colors but less likely the size differential. The amount of of debris recovered does not add up to a 757. As well was an anomalous turbine that does not appear to be part of the equipage of a 757. It would be the right size for an S-3. No damage to the Pentalawn 2000™. Given the alleged altitude of the plane there was less than 2 feet of clearance between the engine cowling and the undamaged Pentalawn. There is no damage to the lawn recorded. The reason the videos, 11 years after the fact, are still under lock and key (if not destroyed) is that they do not confirm the official story. No sudden release to discredit the "Troofers" has been made to date and the longer time drags on the less credible such a release would be therefore the most likely interpretation is that they show something at variance with the Official Fairy Tale. Another curious datum is the report by one of the survivors in the Pentagram, a woman, that there was a massive explosion in the moments before the plane hit. There are a lot of other anomalies but it would take longer than I have to write it all up right now. The first report that a plane hit the Pentagon was from the pilot of a AC130 that saw the plane, saw it hit and he reported it immediately....ALL OF THAT IS ON FAA TAPE... On youtube there is a video interview with the pilot. There were of course other crew members that saw the same thing.
Google youtube for Col. Bud Holland and his B-52. There was a film crew on top of a bluff or mountain. filming his low level bomb run. He repeatedly came within ten feet of the ground at hi speed. So close the film crew ran for their lives.
You are nitpicking. I did not say that it could not be done but that it would be very unstable. As well the flight profile of a B-52 flying at a slower speed is going to be different. I am not an aeronautical engineer - however I base my conclusions on a study done by a Professor of Aeronautical Engineering. And that B-52 was being flown by a Master Pilot not an incompetent boob who had NEVER EVER flown a jet aircraft of any kind and was regarded by his instructors as incompetent to fly a single engine Cessna 172. However, that is only one point and you did not disprove it you simply tried to substitute something distantly similar. And even if I were to grant that ONE point it is just that one point. Bud got a little close to the runway on that "last" flight !
"The few who understand the [FEDERAL RESERVE] system will either be so interested in its profits or be so dependent upon its favours that there will be no opposition from that class, while on the other hand, the great body of people, mentally incapable of comprehending the tremendous advantage that capital derives from the system, will bear its burdens without complaint, and perhaps without even suspecting that the system is inimical to their interests." The Rothschild brothers of London writing to associates in New York, 1863.
No it was not. Holland killed himself and other good men doing such antics. My intention was that a plane indeed may be flown at low level, regardless of the pilot. In Vietnam, friend of mine flew one so low, he was looking in the window of a gook truck at the driver. If you look at testimony of Clancy Prevost, the only interest the terrorists had was in FLYING THE AIRCRAFT, NOT IN TAKEOFF OR LANDING. He was the first to call the FBI.
Ninety degree bank at low altitude in a B-52 is a killer. The co pilot, the SQ CO, ejected but right into the inferno.
No it was not. Holland killed himself and other good men doing such antics. However, he knew what he was doing and had been trained and checked out in the aircraft. Regardless of whether he pushed the envelope one too many timeS is really beside the point. Hani Hanjour had NEVER EVER been qualified to fly the 757 that he allegedly put through high speed aerobatics and was not regarded as competent to fly a singe engine propeller driven Cessna 172 in level flight let alone putting it through sophisticated advanced maneuvers. Anecdotal evidence and not under the same circumstances nor the same type of aircraft. We already know that the cell phone calls did not occur as reported, and that has been proven, so it would be no great order of magnitude to plan for and plant other pieces of "information" that mislead. The maneuvers reported by the ATC before they were gagged were not trivial flying an aircraft at level flight. The demonstrated maneuvers as observed were both sophisticated and actions that would require a well trained pilot not an incompetent boob. As well was the problem of navigation as the aircraft was allegedly turned around in the midwest and then flown back. For an explanation to approach validity it has to account for all the evidence and not just presume that magically an unqualified bad pilot suddenly, overnight, developed the skills of a master pilot. deleted
The relationship between morality and liberty is a directly proportional one. "If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.” —Samuel Adams America: Israel's Handmaiden
Prevost was local boy. His Father was our family doctor. Clancy was first to insist on FBI being called. He was former navy pilot, airline pilot retired and flight instructor. When the terrorist wanted only flying, he blew the whistle.
To discover the truth of this 911 matter one needs simply to understand the nature of "THE STATE". This guy nailed quite some time ago, Friedrich Nietzsch, and he nailed it quite succinctly. "The state is the coldest of all cold monsters. Coldly it lies, too; and this lie creeps from its mouth: `I, the state, am the people.'... Everything about it is false; it bites with stolen teeth. "
Dubya, Hitlery the Viper, and their ilk probably had a big barbecue at one of their Bohemian Grove blood letting festivals, the flight 93 occupants were the main course.
Question is, what was that C-130 doing in a no fly zone?
I just wish people would stop and realize that these types of conspiracy (sp) leaks come from the govt... it is disinformation. Even the moron Meyssan who was the big "proponent" of this crap admitted he was paid by the U.S. to put up his "no plane" website and that they advanced him a substantial sum for a book they had him publish. I will tell anybody who says a plane didn't hit the Pentagram they are wrong - I know that for a FACT. Annapolis, Sept 2001 - Oracle Financials class - I blew off a day of classes and my wife and I went touring because she had never been to DC or the east coast. Nuff said.
My friend, you completely understand the evil hovering above, having detailed the nature of the shadowy, pointy tailed puppeteers who are "giving us the govt we deserve". But on this issue you're clearly predisposed to uncharacteristic denial across the board. As you know our military and intel machines are the conjoined weapons of choice used to effect so many of the unspeakable horrors today. Experimental war time training exercises that hatched out and lost its egg tooth with the birth of The OSI are now de facto policies under which we Americans and much of the world suffer. And so many of the most powerful principals who derived benefit from 9/11 were at the helm during other intentional collisions of force and human life, many of which you have identified and intelligently addressed. In fact, everyone from The Hunt Bros to Chiquita Brands International Inc. would as likely as not sign off on PNAC's coup against us, regardless of the planned loss of innocent life. No offense but I question the sincerity of your assertions and I can only wonder (I won't ask) about your reasons for same.
I'd only suggest that none of these entities are "ours" even though they claim to be. My guess is that all intel agencies serve international banker elites and the corporations they manipulate and have done so in their current capacity since WW II. Prior to that they existed in the form of secret societies such as the Jesuit Order, Skull and Bones, Free Masons, and etc., These organizations have existed for millenia and are even described (as an abomination) in the Bible (Old Testament). It occurs to me that these groups remain compartmentalized to increase plausible deniability while usually working towards the world government agenda. The intel system is huge and so are the stakes. Our strength lies in our numbers. We, the people at large, can only dismantle their death machine when we determine not to participate in their schemes, and refuse to accept all of their bullshit concerning national security, immunity for liars and criminals posing as judges, congressmen and policing agents that subvert the very document that birthed the government. When societies realize that serving the system will ultimately result in their own destruction they can choose to resist or surrender. Many people have become dependent upon the crumbs that fall from Satan's table. These people are as much the enemy of mankind as those committing the atrocities such as 9-11, or the OKC bombing. I guess I'm trying to say that mankind is weak, so very weak, that they will knowingly and willingly serve their stomachs or personal desires aware of the destruction about to befall them. My last comment is that the ability to create and monopolize money / credit is the key to the successful takeover of the earth by the baby-killing scum occupying the highest positions in societies. We don't have to be geniuses to stop them but we must stop being selfish and reject the (alleged) benefits of their criminal enterprise because we become ONE WITH THEM and are our own worst enemy when we do so. "The few who understand the [FEDERAL RESERVE] system will either be so interested in its profits or be so dependent upon its favours that there will be no opposition from that class, while on the other hand, the great body of people, mentally incapable of comprehending the tremendous advantage that capital derives from the system, will bear its burdens without complaint, and perhaps without even suspecting that the system is inimical to their interests." The Rothschild brothers of London writing to associates in New York, 1863.
The C-130 was under positive ATC control at all times. The Pentagon is so huge that in good weather it can be seen from many miles away at even low altitude. On the tape, the controller tells the 130 he has an approaching unidentified aircraft. C-130 pilot sees the other aircraft hit the Pentagon and is the first one to report it. There is an excellent video of an interview later with the pilot on youtube,
I am against absurdity of so many arguments being used in the framework to "prove" 9/11 was a conspiracy. Yes indeed 9/11 was a huge conspiracy, by many people. However, there is no excuse for anyone to use arguments to buttress their view, when such arguments are utterly absurd and border on the ridiculous. All of this enhances and aids those that are guilty. It just helps muddy the already roiled water. The most egregious insult is that hundreds of people were somehow induced by the bad people to lie. Even foreigners with no connection whatsoever to anything. Doubters must use a little restraint, for in not being objective, they HAVE AIDED THE BAD PEOPLE SINCE DAY ONE.
Do you believe in science? Do you think you have to see something with your own eyes to have very good idea what did not happen? What didn't happen is a 757 made a huge dive and spiral at very high speeds low enough to hit lamposts and hit the Pentagon on the first floor creating only a 16 foot hole while leaving the Pentagon lawn intact with no signs of an aircraft anywhere after the impact. How do I know that? Science. You can believe those eye witnesses if you want to, I say they are all full of crap. God is always good!
Right click on image......select view image information. http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/imagenes_sociopol/911_90_08.jpg " If you cannot govern yourself, you will be governed by assholes. " Randge, Poet de Forum, 1/11/11 "Life's tough, and even tougher if you're stupid." --John Wayne
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The relationship between morality and liberty is a directly proportional one. "If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.” —Samuel Adams America: Israel's Handmaiden
Lol.....you can count on me to offer the obvious. : )
" If you cannot govern yourself, you will be governed by assholes. " Randge, Poet de Forum, 1/11/11 "Life's tough, and even tougher if you're stupid." --John Wayne
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The relationship between morality and liberty is a directly proportional one. "If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.” —Samuel Adams America: Israel's Handmaiden
So, does he explain how a person who's never flown a plane before managed to get a commercial jet to hover inches above the ground while going over 500 mph, because that's a story I gotta hear.
Take a look at this. Three "yous" in first nine words. With such I do not read further. It is much better to write without using "accusatory finger pointing yous". Three out of nine is NOT being objective in any discussion. Rewrite it and I will be happy to respond.
Not really, when you make claims that all the masses who do not think as you do are ignorant.....might as well put you in because that's what you mean. : ) You're nit-picking over something you do in a back handed way, sweetie. " If you cannot govern yourself, you will be governed by assholes. " Randge, Poet de Forum, 1/11/11 "Life's tough, and even tougher if you're stupid." --John Wayne
Really not that difficult. The new modern simulators are excellent in training non pilots how to fly, without ever leaving the ground. They are so realistic that even veteran Captains break out in a sweat when they are put their paces. Running thru the available information, over and over it is mentioned the bad guys as wanting primarily to buy simulator time which is very expensive.
AB... See what I mean?????????? I will address what I read above. Of all the good people here on 4um, I am most likely the least educated, or tied for last place. Carrying a PHD might make me think of others as ignorant. The reverse is true. Starting there, how do I dare question what is written by others? Well it is dangerous as others here can see. I stick my head up and there are friends that would take it off, in a personal manner. I am highly qualified because being logical, objective and inquisitive requires no brains, no smarts etc etc. Case in point... The landing gear of the aircraft was found inside the Pentagon. It is very heavy, it took heavy equipment to remove it thru the wall entry hole. I asked one person how they accounted for the removal if it was a missile that struck the Pentagon. Their answer was very simple and well over my head.....THE LANDING GEAR HAD BEEN PLANTED PRIOR TO THE MISSILE ATTACK... How could I possibly find that simple explanation as not the whole truth?????????????????
I'll take that as a NO. Don't expect anymore replys from me. I don't waste my time with people who don't believe in science.
God is always good!
i heard the Happy Hooligans got a Congressional award for shooting it down. on a side note, i heard a few weeks ago, that the new WTC building was going to be 1,776 feet high. "Satan on Our Dollar! The Masonic Seal of America.... “Historian/author Ralph Epperson has spent many years researching the history of the Great Seal, and has discovered that those who designed the two circles committed America to what has been called 'A Secret Destiny.' This future 'destiny' is so unpleasant that those who wanted the changes it entails had to conceal that truth in symbols.” ...The Number of the Beast - 666 The letters on the base of the Illuminati pyramid [ MDCCLXXVI ] stand for certain numbers. And all those numbers when added up equal 1776, the year the Illuminati formed. More than one method exists for arriving at 1776. However, there is only one way to arrive at the following sequence. The Babylonian numbering system was used by the Masonic designers of the Seal. That numbering system was not based on ten, but on six. For example, “600” would be 1000, “60” would be 100 and “6” would be 10. The Occult is Trinitarian, i.e. it's main teachings are grouped in three's. The Number Sequence "93 and 93, 93"; or 600, 60, and 6 is the "current" of the new age of Aquarius - the Water Bearer, which heralds the end of the age of Pisces - the Fishes (an early symbol of Christianity) in the teachings of the Order of the Eastern Templars or O.T.O. If you want the truth, God will reveal it to you. You have to not want the truth to remain ignorant in today's world, because the truth is all around us. Every U.S. dollar shouts in our faces concerning the occult-driven New World Order; yet the same men who deny any conspiracies carry, view and spend U.S. dollars with conspiracy symbols all over it. What a striking paradox! Men who vehemently deny the government's involvement in orchestrating the 9/11 attacks fail to see the occult All-Seeing-Eye at the Ground Zero Memorial mocking them. In your face America! The elite criminals who are destroying America, bankrupting our economy, and stealing our liberties put their mark right in our faces, in our wallets, in religions, in our cities, on television, on music albums, and everywhere we turn to mock our stupidity. They're so obvious and yet completely hidden from view. This is the nature of secret societies. They literally laugh at their elite parties and high-society gatherings at how obvious they make themselves in plain view, and yet people walk by and go about life as usual without giving them a second thought. You fools, wake up and look around you. ...." "...as long as there..remain active enemies of the Christian church, we may hope to become Master of the World...the future Jewish King will never reign in the world before Christianity is overthrown - B'nai B'rith speech http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/luther.htm / http://bible.cc/psalms/83-4.htm
Well, thats my loss. I even read and post to Turtle, so I will continue to read yours.
Where are all the surveillance videos of the event, ie. Virginia DOT traffic cams, Pentagon roof cams, etc.? Oh wait, we have the Doubletree Hotel surveillance video, which shows an explosion but no plane. So where is all this evidence Cyni? Or how about the CNN video which shows little to no indication of a plane having hit the Pentagon, where there are no jet fuel fires on the outside walls of the Pentagon whereas there WOULD have been huge fires there if a 757's wings had splattered into them. Instead, there were only isolated fires in the immediate area of the "hole" caused by whatever hit the Pentagon, and it did not encompass the area where the wings should have, or rather WOULD have hit had it been a 757. And one other thing. Notice the Pentagon lawn towards the end of the above video? It is spotless. There is a team of individuals exiting a bus however, with bags full of "something", heading towards the Pentagon... For a 757 to descend to ALMOST ground level (engines 3 feet off the deck), while FLYING AT 500+ mph and hitting a ground floor wall with the nose level, without scraping one blade of grass on the lawn, isn't just FLYING, it isn't just LANDING (which is basically was), it is performing the IMPOSSIBLE since ground effect would have caused the plane to climb at that speed and at that altitude. Only a hard nose down on the yoke would have kept it from climbing, and the result of that would have been a nose down crash into the lawn, causing the plane to break into a zillion pieces OUTSIDE of the Pentagon with practically no energy left to even dent the Pentagon wall. That obviously didn't happen, hence, not only was it NOT a 757 which hit the Pentagon, it most certainly was NOT flown by an idiot who couldn't fly a Cessna in standard level flight. He doesn't believe in science. You can't reason with a person like that. I always thought those that believed we didn't send men to the moon were nuts. But applying simple science to videos supposedly from the moon shows me they aren't nuts at all, no man went to the moon. People will believe what they want to believe it appears because that way they don't have to worry about evidence and most importantly, reality. Reality is not pretty, so I can understand people wanting to avoid it.
God is always good!
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The relationship between morality and liberty is a directly proportional one. "If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.” —Samuel Adams America: Israel's Handmaiden
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The relationship between morality and liberty is a directly proportional one. "If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.” —Samuel Adams America: Israel's Handmaiden
It all would have been on there! And that's why that video hasn't seen the light of day. They're probably waiting until they can make a PERFECT fake, where they can't quite get it right yet. That, or perhaps he only accepts it from the word of paid "experts", those with a vested interest in making sure the "proper" story is told to the gullible sheep. There is no good reason to hide and keep under lock and key all of the surveillance videos that would have shown the approach of the jet to the Pentagram ... UNLESS ... what they show contradicts the official lie and shows things that might prove it to have been a total fabrication - which of course loops us right back around to what we already know ... 911 WAS AN INSIDE JOB. Exactly right. DEATH OF THE PHOENIX FINAL ACT FOR THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA ".... The original design submitted for the Great Seal of the United States depicted the Phoenix in a nest of flames. This pagan symbol was discreetly changed to the eagle to obscure its occult symbolism: the planned destruction of the United States of America. Also engraved on the Great Seal was the six-pointed Seal of Solomon, which symbolizes rebirth. That the Seal of Solomon is also the Star of David on the flag of Israel reveals where the “New Order of the Ages” will be reborn. Moreover, the Judeo-Masonic Seal reveals that the New World Order envisioned by the Judeo-Freemasons would be the Jews’ “New Jerusalem”: “Washington would also stamp Templar and Masonic symbols on the dollar bill, which survive to this day. The eye enclosed in a triangle echoes the apocalyptic visions of an obscure medieval seer, Joachim de Fiore, while the pyramid, left unfinished, suggests a pinnacle of human wisdom that is still to be reached. “The symbols reflected the millennial yearnings that fuelled the American Revolution — a belief in building a Heaven on Earth, as well as a better society. They are directly related to the similar symbols that cover the secret scroll of Kirkwall. “Henry St Clair had failed in his attempt to build a new Jerusalem in the New World, but the dollar bill and the sacred scroll ensured that his Templar vision lived on.” (The Secret Scroll) So it was the “millennial yearnings” of the Gnostic monk, Joachim of Fiore, that fuelled the American Revolution? And we thought the Revolutionary War was fought over representative government, religious freedom, and the rationalist ideals of the founding fathers! Now we are informed by President George Bush that the American Revolution is not over, and that it is actually directed by a mysterious angel which answers to Lucifer: “After the Declaration of Independence was signed, Virginia statesman John Page wrote to Thomas Jefferson: ‘We know the Race is not to the swift nor the Battle to the Strong. Do you not think an Angel rides in the Whirlwind and directs this Storm?...’ This work continues. The story goes on. And an angel still rides in the whirlwind and directs this storm.” (Bush Inaugural) The multitude of Judeo-Masonic symbols on the currency of the United States is like the handwriting on the wall which forecasts the downfall of another great superpower. However, these symbols also reveal that the sacrifice of the United States of America by her own leaders was preordained from the time of the American Revolution, and probably well before. The Judeo-Freemasons also understood that the transition into their New World Order would not be a smooth process, and that they would need to attribute the whole messy business (“Ordo ab Chao”) to God Almighty, lest Americans discover the true perpetrators. George Washington, a 33° Freemason and Charter Worshipful Master of Alexandria Lodge No. 22, purportedly had a vision of the destruction of the United States. If this vision truly originated with Washington, and is not a recent invention by the Judeo-Freemasons, it may have been a prediction of what was planned in that era for the USA. “A Vision of George Washington: "The Birth, the progress and the destiny of the United States” even has foreign armies invading the United States: “Again I heard a mysterious voice saying, ‘Son of the Republic, look and learn.’ “At this the dark, shadowy angel placed a trumpet to his mouth, and blew three distinct blasts; and taking water from the ocean, he sprinkled it upon Europe, Asia, and Africa. “Then my eyes beheld a fearful scene. From each of these continents arose thick black clouds that were soon joined into one. And throughout this mass there gleamed a dark red light by which I saw hordes of armed men. These men, moving with the cloud marched by land and sailed by sea to America, which country was enveloped in the volume of the cloud. And I dimly saw these vast armies devastate the whole country and burn the villages, towns and cities, which I had seen spring up. “As my ears listened to the thundering of the cannon, clashing of swords, and the shouts and cries of millions in mortal combat, I again heard the mysterious voice saying, “‘Son of the Republic, look and learn.’” A preview of the terrors that have been planned for the U.S. is featured in a shocking video game that was released in October of 2005 and is being marketed to teenagers. The purpose of the game is to give young Americans experience in strategic combat against other regions of their own country which have seceded from the Union and divided into seven nation-states, including Washington, D.C. and surrounding states which are occupied by a European Union peacekeeping force. “Shattered Union begins with a premise that hits way too close to home for Americans in these troubled times. A disputed Presidential election and a spate of domestic terrorism incidents push the United States into increased sectarian squabbling. When an atomic bomb detonates in Washington D.C., eliminating the entire Presidential line of succession, the U.S. breaks up into six squabbling nation states. The secession starts with California and Texas declaring their independence, followed quickly by the northwest states of Pacifica, the Great Plains, the New Confederacy, and the New England Alliance. The European Union, desperate to restore order to avoid the worldwide repercussions of a second Civil War, invades the area around Washington D.C. as an occupying army, effectively forms a seventh power on the continent. Each one is attempting to re-unite the United States and cast the new America in its own image… “Following a great increase in terrorism, internal strife and, ultimately, the nuclear destruction of Washington, D.C., the United States shatters into a half dozen nation-states that descend into war…” (See the trailers: “Shattered Union: United We Stood”) To justify the destruction of the USA, the Zionists must now portray America as “Babylon the Great” collapsing under the wrath of God, per Revelation 18. Surely, “Ichabod,” which means “the glory has departed,” could apply the United States in its degenerate condition today, yet the propagandists never mention that the Jewish-owned and controlled entertainment media has led the United States down the broad road to moral destruction. Moreover, the Zionist cabal must incite the people of the world against Americans so that when their beloved country falls, the world will rejoice, never suspecting the truth. Which is why the ubiquitous propaganda mills on the Internet continuously revile the USA as “Babylon” and even gloat over its imminent demise.[ bible.cc/micah/4-11.htm ] In 1921, Henry Ford exposed this shell game in his powerful expose, The International Jew: “It is a most important consideration that most of the national animosities that exist today arose out of resentment against what Jewish money power did under the camouflage of national names. “‘The British did this,’ ‘The Germans did this,’ when it was the International Jew who did it, the nations being but the marked spaces on his checker board. Today, around the world the blaming word is heard, ‘The United States did this. If it were not for the United States the world would be in a better shape. The Americans are a sordid, greedy, cruel people.’ “Why? Because the Jewish money power is centered here and is making money out of both our immunity and Europe’s distress, playing one against the other; and because so many so-called ‘American business men’ abroad today are not Americans at all - they are Jews. “Citizens wake up with a start to find that even the white nations are hardly allowed to see each other nowadays except through Jewish eyes. Great Britain and France seldom see a special American spokesman who is not a Jew. That may be the reason why they reciprocate by sending Jews to us, thinking perhaps that we prefer them.” (The International Jew : Chapter 1) This strategy has succeeded to the point that International Jewry now controls the governments of the world. By “International Jewry” is meant the high cabal of Jews who designate themselves the Learned Elders of Sion or, alternatively, the Priory of Zion or Prieuré de Sion. Under the direction of this high cabal of International Jewry is a global network of Masonic societies. The term “Judeo-Freemasonry” describes this network of secret societies more accurately than “Freemasonry” because it conveys the reality that these fraternities, the majority of which are comprised of Gentiles, are under the covert government of B’nai B’rith, which is under the direction of the Learned Elders of Sion of the 33º. [See: The Synarchy: "Judeo-Christian" Theocracy Fronts for International Banking Cartel] Rabbi Isaac Mayer Wise, a pioneer of Reform Judaism in America, stated in 1855: “Freemasonry is a Jewish establishment, whose history, grades, official appointments, passwords, and explanations are Jewish from beginning to end.” (See: Heeding Bible Prophecy: New Israel) The Jewish Tribune stated in 1927, “Freemasonry is based on Judaism. Eliminate the teachings of Judaism from the Masonic ritual and what is left?” The agenda of International Jewry, called “Zionism,” is the reestablishment of the Kingdom of Greater Israel to rule over the Gentile world. “Zionists” are agents of the high cabal who promote the agenda of the Elders of Sion, which also includes the destruction of Christianity in all of its forms. The terms “International Jewry” and “Zionist” do not apply to all Jews, but to those Jews who have rejected the God of Israel and, through deception and intrigue, are carrying out the directives of their god, Lucifer. [See: Mystery Babylon the Great: Catholic or Jewish?] ....." http://watch.pair.com/death-phoenix.html Micah 4:10 Be in pain, and labour to bring forth, O daughter of Zion [ http://www.wnd.com/2007/04/41327/ ], like a woman in travail: for now shalt thou go forth out of the city, and thou shalt dwell in the field, and thou shalt go even to "Babylon" [ http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/E...m/satan_on_our_dollar.htm ]; there shalt thou be delivered; there the LORD shall redeem thee from the hand of thine enemies. Deliver yourself, O Zion [ http://www.wnd.com/2007/04/41327/ ], that dwells with the daughter of Babylon [ http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/E...m/satan_on_our_dollar.htm ]. bible.cc/zechariah/2-7.htm Micah 4:13/Psalm 2, etc. They lose. "...as long as there..remain active enemies of the Christian church, we may hope to become Master of the World...the future Jewish King will never reign in the world before Christianity is overthrown - B'nai B'rith speech http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/luther.htm / http://bible.cc/psalms/83-4.htm
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The relationship between morality and liberty is a directly proportional one. "If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.” —Samuel Adams America: Israel's Handmaiden
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The relationship between morality and liberty is a directly proportional one. "If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.” —Samuel Adams America: Israel's Handmaiden
I'd only suggest that none of these entities are "ours" even though they claim to be. My guess is that all intel agencies serve international banker elites and the corporations they manipulate and have done so in their current capacity since WW II. Prior to that they existed in the form of secret societies such as the Jesuit Order, Skull and Bones, Free Masons, and etc., These organizations have existed for millenia and are even described (as an abomination) in the Bible (Old Testament). It occurs to me that these groups remain compartmentalized to increase plausible deniability while usually working towards the world government agenda. The intel system is huge and so are the stakes. Our strength lies in our numbers. We, the people at large, can only dismantle their death machine when we determine not to participate in their schemes, and refuse to accept all of their bullshit concerning national security, immunity for liars and criminals posing as judges, congressmen and policing agents that subvert the very document that birthed the government. When societies realize that serving the system will ultimately result in their own destruction they can choose to resist or surrender. Many people have become dependent upon the crumbs that fall from Satan's table. These people are as much the enemy of mankind as those committing the atrocities such as 9-11, or the OKC bombing. I guess I'm trying to say that mankind is weak, so very weak, that they will knowingly and willingly serve their stomachs or personal desires aware of the destruction about to befall them. My last comment is that the ability to create and monopolize money / credit is the key to the successful takeover of the earth by the baby-killing scum occupying the highest positions in societies. We don't have to be geniuses to stop them but we must stop being selfish and reject the (alleged) benefits of their criminal enterprise because we become ONE WITH THEM and are our own worst enemy when we do so. An intelligent clarification/amplification. And those who seek to retaliate for the ghastly killings of their children will certainly not discriminate if they have the means to kill us. Those of us who ignore the evil perpetrated in our names by the alien occupation govt will not be spared. Thank you my friend.
Cyni: "I am against absurdity of so many arguments being used in the framework to "prove" 9/11 was a conspiracy. Yes indeed 9/11 was a huge conspiracy, by many people. However, there is no excuse for anyone to use arguments to buttress their view, when such arguments are utterly absurd and border on the ridiculous. All of this enhances and aids those that are guilty. It just helps muddy the already roiled water. The most egregious insult is that hundreds of people were somehow induced by the bad people to lie. Even foreigners with no connection whatsoever to anything. Doubters must use a little restraint, for in not being objective, they HAVE AIDED THE BAD PEOPLE SINCE DAY ONE." OK. When you put it that way it makes sense. In the future I should address specific points to which I may take issue. Thank you my friend.
Thank you my friend. And thank you, Sir. I truly enjoy your posts ! "The few who understand the [FEDERAL RESERVE] system will either be so interested in its profits or be so dependent upon its favours that there will be no opposition from that class, while on the other hand, the great body of people, mentally incapable of comprehending the tremendous advantage that capital derives from the system, will bear its burdens without complaint, and perhaps without even suspecting that the system is inimical to their interests." The Rothschild brothers of London writing to associates in New York, 1863.
And I, yours!
This is my last post on this thread and on any future thread containing the same subject. I have been asked politely and not so politely, to refrain from such. Cyni...
I have been asked politely and not so politely, to refrain from such. Cyni... You know, when I took a very public chunk out of your ass a couple of years ago I was advised in private about your circumstances, and it was suggested that I should not treat you the way I would other debate partners. So, instead of attacking you here I very gently wrote what I had to say to you in PMs, and I suggested that if all you're going to do is dismiss all theories of 9/11 with the same blanket reply while offering no point by point rebuttal or a counter theory of your own, you should stop demoralizing those who wish to discuss it while pretending that you believe it was a conspiracy so complex that none of the evidence means anything and that none can unravel the truth of that terrible day. I was also told about your brother recently and sure enough, you brought him up in a shabby attempt to gain advantage in our formerly private exchanges. And now I see that not only do you not respect the confidence of PMs but it's not beneath you to manipulate the members with a pity ploy. It would appear that you are indeed challenged, perhaps beyond your capabilities by discussing this or any other subject with me. Hey, it can happen to the best of us, but, skydiving, mosh pitting and rancorous discussions where no senior discount is offered may not be for you anymore. So, if you'll pledge to avoid this topic for good then I'll pledge to avoid you, publicly and in private. Okay? ***Remember DAWGGIE, don't argue with Cyni. He's not really up to it you see...***
#2. To: tom007 (#0)
"The US Air Force Shot Down Flight 93"
#3. To: tom007 (#0)
#4. To: tom007 (#0)
#5. To: Cynicom (#4)
#6. To: Jethro Tull (#5)
#7. To: Cynicom, JT, 4 (#4)
Rummy also said that a missile hit the Pentagon: any doubters on that one?
#8. To: Lod, Jethro Tull (#7)
Rummy also said that a missile hit the Pentagon: any doubters on that one?
#9. To: Cynicom (#4)
(Edited)
Minutes before the 10 a.m. crash, an emergency dispatcher in Pennsylvania received a cell phone call from a man who said he was a passenger locked in a bathroom aboard United Flight 93. The man repeatedly said the call was not a hoax, said dispatch supervisor Glenn Cramer in neighboring Westmoreland County. "We are being hijacked, we are being hijacked!" Cramer quoted the man from a transcript of the call. The man told dispatchers the plane "was going down. He heard some sort of explosion and saw white smoke coming from the plane and we lost contact with him," Cramer said. [Yahoo News, Tuesday September 11 11:27 PM EDT] "I know of two people - I will not mention names - that heard a missile," [Mayor Ernie Stuhl] said. "They both live very close, within a couple of hundred yards. . .This one fellow's served in Vietnam and he says he's heard them, and he heard one that day." The mayor adds that based on what he knows about that morning, military F-16 fighter jets were "very, very close." [philly.com] [I]nvestigators also are combing a second crime scene in nearby Indian Lake, where residents reported hearing the doomed jetliner flying over at a low altitude before "falling apart on their homes."
"People were calling in and reporting pieces of plane falling," a state trooper said. Jim Stop reported he had seen the hijacked Boeing 757 fly over him as he was fishing. He said he could see parts falling from the plane. [pittsburghlive.com]Finding the flight data recorder had been the focus of investigators as they widened their search area today following the discoveries of more debris, including what appeared to be human remains, miles from the point of impact at a reclaimed coal mine. [Pittsburgh Post Gazette] "Pennsylvania state police officials said on Thursday debris from the plane had been found up to 8 miles away [from the crash site] in a residential community where local media have quoted residents as speaking of a second plane in the area and burning debris falling from the sky." [Idaho Observer] [F]ederal investigators said on Thursday they could not rule out the possibility that the United jet was shot down. "We have not ruled out that," FBI agent Bill Crowley told a news conference when asked about reports that a U.S. fighter jet may have fired on the hijacked Boeing 757. "We haven't ruled out anything yet." [CBS 58 News] [I]t was a Canadian general at Norad who scrambled military jets under orders from Bush to shoot down a hijacked commercial aircraft headed for Washington. [cnews] "I think all of us have a sense if we imagine the kind of world we would face if the people who bombed the mess hall in Mosul, or the people who did the bombing in Spain, or the people who attacked the United States in New York, shot down the plane over Pennsylvania and attacked the Pentagon..." [WorldNetDaily] "If they hadn't shot down the fourth plane [Flight 93] it would've hit the dome," Stone, a Navy officer, said in his opening remarks. [Reuters]
#10. To: Bill D Berger (#9)
What else is the government concealing about 9/11?
#11. To: Cynicom (#10)
Hysterical speculation and conspiracy theories enhances their lying.
#12. To: Cynicom (#10)
(Edited)
Hysterical speculation and conspiracy theories
#13. To: All (#12)
(Edited)
#14. To: Cynicom, Bill D Berger (#10)
#15. To: tom007 (#0)
#16. To: Cynicom (#8)
For instance, over 100 people outside the Pentagon SAW the airplane, some even identified it as AA plane.
#17. To: Original_Intent, BILL D BERGER, cynicom, jethro tull (#14)
http://www.wanttoknow.info/a-plane-lands-cleveland-bomb-feared-aboard
Plane Lands In Cleveland; Bomb Feared Aboard WCPO - Cincinnati's ABC Affiliate, September 11, 2001 Posted: 2006-12-07 15:55:58 http://www.wcpo.com/specials/2001/americaattacked/news_local/story14.html
Reported by: 9News Staff, 9/11/01 11:43:57 AM. A Boeing 767 out of Boston made an emergency landing Tuesday at Cleveland Hopkins International Airport due to concerns that it may have a bomb aboard, said Mayor Michael R. White. White said the plane had been moved to a secure area of the airport, and was evacuated. United identified the plane as Flight 93. The airline did say how many people were aboard the flight. United said it was also "deeply concerned" about another flight, Flight 175, a Boeing 767, which was bound from Boston to Los Angeles. On behalf of the airline CEO James Goodwin said: "The thoughts of everyone at United are with the passengers and crew of these flights. Our prayers are also with everyone on the ground who may have been involved. "United is working with all the relevant authorities, including the FBI, to obtain further information on these flights," he said.
Note: Remember that Flight 93 reportedly crashed in Pennsylvania on 9/11, with all aboard killed. This story was posted within hours of the 9/11 attacks. Click on the link above and you will see, "This story has been removed from WCPO.com. It was a preliminary AP story, and was factually incorrect." However, using the powerful Internet Archive, you can see the original article here. Click here and you can see the article continued to be posted for all dates through June 2004, and was only removed later. How can this be?
#18. To: Artisan (#17)
Even worse, is that flight 93 actually landed safely ACCORDING TO THE CEO OF UNITED AIRLINES, THE FBI, AND MAYOR MICHAEL WHITE, who all announced that it had landed safely that day and that all the passengers were safely evacuated. See WCPO TV report on this.
#19. To: All (#13)
(Edited)
#20. To: lead.and.lag (#12)
#21. To: tom007 (#0)
"For my part, whatever anguish of spirit it may cost, I am willing to know the whole truth, to know the worst, and to provide for it.” ~ Patrick Henry
#22. To: Cynicom, Lod, Jethro Tull (#8)
For instance, over 100 people outside the Pentagon SAW the airplane, some even identified it as AA plane.
"For my part, whatever anguish of spirit it may cost, I am willing to know the whole truth, to know the worst, and to provide for it.” ~ Patrick Henry
#23. To: lead.and.lag (#12)
"For my part, whatever anguish of spirit it may cost, I am willing to know the whole truth, to know the worst, and to provide for it.” ~ Patrick Henry
#24. To: wudidiz (#21)
(Edited)
#25. To: Cynicom, Jethro Tull, Lod, All, *9-11* (#22)
Whatever made the hole in the pentagon could obviously not have been an airliner.
"For my part, whatever anguish of spirit it may cost, I am willing to know the whole truth, to know the worst, and to provide for it.” ~ Patrick Henry
#26. To: RickyJ (#24)
"For my part, whatever anguish of spirit it may cost, I am willing to know the whole truth, to know the worst, and to provide for it.” ~ Patrick Henry
#27. To: wudidiz (#23)
(Edited)
peak oil
#28. To: wudidiz (#23)
You almost got through that post without mentioning peak oil.
#29. To: lead.and.lag (#27)
"why the fuck are these assholes going to so much trouble and expense?"
"For my part, whatever anguish of spirit it may cost, I am willing to know the whole truth, to know the worst, and to provide for it.” ~ Patrick Henry
#30. To: Bill D Berger (#28)
You almost got through that post without mentioning peak oil.
"For my part, whatever anguish of spirit it may cost, I am willing to know the whole truth, to know the worst, and to provide for it.” ~ Patrick Henry
#31. To: wudidiz (#29)
I really don't know exactly what's up, but I don't think that's it.
#32. To: lead.and.lag (#31)
"For my part, whatever anguish of spirit it may cost, I am willing to know the whole truth, to know the worst, and to provide for it.” ~ Patrick Henry
#33. To: Bill D Berger (#11)
I see no evidence of "hysterical speculation" or "conspiracy theories" in the article I posted above.
#34. To: wudidiz (#25)
#35. To: Artisan (#17)
only a moron would believe the government version of how 9/11 happened.
#36. To: RickyJ (#16)
I can find thousands of people that say they have seen aliens, are you going to believe them?
#37. To: Original_Intent (#14)
#38. To: Bill D Berger, All (#9)
#39. To: Cynicom (#38)
common sense
#40. To: Cynicom, Artisan, Jethro Tull, all (#37)
I admit, I was not there, I saw nothing.
#41. To: tom007 (#0)
#42. To: lead.and.lag (#39)
how did lisa jefferson know whe was talking to todd beamer?
#43. To: Cynicom (#42)
(Edited)
I committed nothing to memory.
#44. To: Original_Intent (#40)
So, eyewitness reports exist of people seeing what they believe were military aircraft operating in the area.
#45. To: lead.and.lag (#43)
we're not talking about memory... we're talking about logic.
#46. To: Cynicom (#44)
(Edited)
watching all of this unfold on radar...
#47. To: Cynicom (#45)
wishful thinking
#48. To: lead.and.lag (#46)
..during an excercise that was designed to befuddle radar operators by giving them phoney bogies on their screens.
#49. To: Cynicom (#48)
nonsense
#50. To: lead.and.lag (#49)
#51. To: All (#49)
(Edited)
#52. To: Bill D Berger (#9)
Most people would agree that under the circumstances, it was the best course of action. The point is that we are seeing clear evidence of the manipulation of information being fed to the public regarding 9/11.
"Satan / Cheney in "08" 
The people of privilege will always risk their complete destruction rather than surrender any material part of their advantage." J.K. Galbraith
#53. To: Original_Intent (#14)
Ground impacts, even at high speed, do not create a debris field that extends out 8 miles.
"Satan / Cheney in "08" The people of privilege will always risk their complete destruction rather than surrender any material part of their advantage." J.K. Galbraith
#54. To: tom007 (#52)
Like who did it.
#55. To: noone222 (#41)
Just because a missile went missing doesn't mean it hit flight 93.
"Satan / Cheney in "08" The people of privilege will always risk their complete destruction rather than surrender any material part of their advantage." J.K. Galbraith
#56. To: Cynicom (#54)
#57. To: All (#51)
#58. To: lead.and.lag (#57)
. and the whole atmosphere surrounding the operation and subsequent events is poisonous.
#59. To: Cynicom (#58)
(Edited)
#60. To: lead.and.lag, Jethro Tull, all (#59)
#61. To: Cynicom (#60)
#62. To: lead.and.lag (#61)
#63. To: Cynicom (#62)
Can we please keep on the subject, not personal attacking???
#64. To: lead.and.lag (#63)
#65. To: Cynicom (#60)
Pentagon witness spreadsheet
#66. To: Cynicom (#64)
(Edited)
When a man has an empty quiver it always shows, for they turn to personal attacks.
#67. To: abraxas (#65)
lol.....the Pentagon is known for truth, transparency and accuracy. The Pentagon would NEVER alter a spreadsheet.
#68. To: lead.and.lag (#66)
#69. To: Cynicom (#68)
#70. To: Cynicom (#67)
(Edited)
A plane hit the Pentagon, they could not lie about that as too many people saw it.
#71. To: Cynicom (#68)
#72. To: lead.and.lag (#69)
are you willing to admit that the todd beamer story fits the pattern of deception that seems to be standard operating procedure for the neocons?
#73. To: Cynicom (#72)
Thin gruel
#74. To: abraxas (#70)
then why doesn't the Pentagon simply release the MULTIPLE VIDEOS that would substantiate this claim?
#75. To: Cynicom (#72)
#76. To: All (#73)
#77. To: abraxas (#70)
#78. To: All (#76)
#79. To: Cynicom (#77)
#80. To: All (#78)
#81. To: Cynicom (#77)
When the gubmint lies, most of the time, they love it when the masses resort to conspiracy theories, speculation and plain ignorance as it helps confuse the issue and cover the tracks that the masses have
#82. To: Cynicom (#77)
#83. To: Cynicom (#77)
#84. To: lead.and.lag (#63)
you can dish it out, but you cant take it, huh?
#85. To: Phant2000 (#84)
"dukes up"!!!
#86. To: Phant2000 (#84)
All Cyni dishes out is facts, figures
#87. To: abraxas (#82)
Where's the plane Cyni?
#88. To: Cynicom (#87)
Ever watch a plane blow up, crash????
#89. To: Cynicom (#87)
#90. To: abraxas (#88)
Blow up? How did the plane blow up Cyni?
#91. To: abraxas (#86)
I do not consider a Pentagon spread sheet to be fact or figure.......
#92. To: Phant2000, Cynicom (#91)
he was supposed to have been in the very wing of the Pentagon that was hit
#93. To: Cynicom (#90)
Engine fire on takeoff.
#94. To: Phant2000 (#91)
I will take her word of what occurred, what remained and what she personally observed over any conspiracy theorist.
#95. To: abraxas (#92)
If she had been there and survived, Cyni would dismiss her eye witness account if it didn't correlate with the government storyline......that's what he did with the gal's testimony I posted.
#96. To: Cynicom (#94)
I will accept the word of the firemen that ran for their lives and were the first ones to see inside.
#97. To: Phant2000 (#95)
My first reaction was that you often find different explanations
#98. To: abraxas (#96)
When are you going to post "the word of the firemen" for the lot of us? Or is this like all those Pentagon video tapes that are "classified" and not for public view?
#99. To: Cynicom (#98)
Here is but one reference with photos taken at the time of the incident
#100. To: abraxas (#99)
Numerous photos of the 16 foot hole that was the only hole evident for over 40 minutes.
#101. To: abraxas (#99)
Again, how does a 757 fit into a 16 foot hole? Where did the 125 feet of wingspan go and why didn't it damage the building? A 757 is 44 feet tall, Cyni. This is a fact.
#102. To: Cynicom (#101)
You just read the testimony
#103. To: abraxas (#99)
Again, how does a 757 fit into a 16 foot hole?
#104. To: abraxas (#102)
Wall thickness is irrelevant
#105. To: All (#104)
#106. To: Cynicom (#104)
#107. To: Cynicom (#103)
#108. To: Cynicom (#87)
#109. To: Cynicom (#44)
To my knowledge there has not been one person that has stepped forward and acknowledged a shoot down, witnessed by them on radar, not one.
#110. To: Obnoxicated (#108)
The problem I have with the Pentagon attack isn't about what hit the building, but how some less than novice pilots managed to perform a stunt that any legit pilot could only fantasize of pulling off. I have an uncle who was a Lt. Col. in the Marines that flew fighter jets for 12 years and he laughed at the notion that a couple of guys who weren't capable of piloting a piper cub could do what was done that day in a commerciaql jet.
#111. To: Original_Intent (#110)
#112. To: Obnoxicated (#111)
Wasn't a C-130 seen in the area shortly after the strike?
#113. To: tom007 (#0)
"I am an Air Force veteran"
#114. To: Phant2000 (#95)
often find different explanations for the same event
#115. To: Cynicom (#8)
#116. To: bush_is_a_moonie, Cynicom, Artisan (#115)
#117. To: bush_is_a_moonie (#115)
Everyone who is still trying to keep this missing plane story alive, to manufacture a controversy where none really exists, to distract from the Israel spy scandal, is either an idiot or working for the governments of the United States and of Israel.
#118. To: Original_Intent (#116)
Wing Tip vortices are produced by the aircraft at low altitudes making flight unstable. At the alleged altitude of Flt 77 it would be almost impossible to control a 757 at that altitude.
#119. To: Cynicom (#118)
#120. To: Cynicom (#118)
#121. To: Original_Intent (#119)
And that B-52 was being flown by a Master Pilot not an incompetent boob
#122. To: noone222 (#120)
#123. To: Cynicom (#121)
And that B-52 was being flown by a Master Pilot not an incompetent boob
In Vietnam, friend of mine flew one so low, he was looking in the window of a gook truck at the driver.
If you look at testimony of Clancy Prevost, the only interest the terrorists had was in FLYING THE AIRCRAFT, NOT IN TAKEOFF OR LANDING. He was the first to call the FBI.
#124. To: wudidiz (#25)
#125. To: Original_Intent (#123)
#126. To: tom007, *9-11* (#0)
#127. To: All (#126)
#128. To: Cynicom (#117)
#129. To: Cynicom (#121)
#130. To: Cynicom, christine, farmfriend, Shoonra, Jethro Tull, purplerose, Original_Intent (#125)
#131. To: HOUNDDAWG (#130)
As you know our military and intel machines are the conjoined weapons of choice used to effect so many of the unspeakable horrors today.
#132. To: Obnoxicated (#128)
Question is, what was that C-130 doing in a no fly zone?
#133. To: HOUNDDAWG (#130)
But on this issue you're clearly predisposed to uncharacteristic denial across the board.
#134. To: Cynicom (#36)
No more than I believe people that DID NOT SEE Flt 93 crash.
#135. To: Eric Stratton (#124)
#136. To: abraxas (#135)
#137. To: Eric Stratton (#136)
#138. To: abraxas (#137)
#139. To: Cynicom (#132)
#140. To: RickyJ (#134)
Do you believe in science? Do you think you
#141. To: Cynicom (#140)
It is much better to write without using "accusatory finger pointing yous".
#142. To: Obnoxicated (#139)
So, does he explain how a person who's never flown a plane before managed to get a commercial jet to hover inches above the ground while going over 500 mph, because that's a story I gotta hear.
#143. To: abraxas (#141)
Not really, when you make claims that all the masses who do not think as you do are ignorant.
#144. To: Cynicom (#140)
#145. To: tom007 (#0)
(Edited)
#146. To: RickyJ (#144)
. Don't expect anymore replys from me.
#147. To: Cynicom, *9-11* (#132)
(Edited)
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#148. To: Cynicom (#121)
If you look at testimony of Clancy Prevost, the only interest the terrorists had was in FLYING THE AIRCRAFT, NOT IN TAKEOFF OR LANDING. He was the first to call the FBI.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#149. To: FormerLurker (#148)
#150. To: FormerLurker, All (#147)
#151. To: FormerLurker, All (#147)
#152. To: Eric Stratton (#150)
Check out the view of the horizon in the a.m.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#153. To: RickyJ (#149)
He doesn't believe in science. You can't reason with a person like that.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#154. To: Eric Stratton (#151)
PS ... I'm sure that at least one or two others would have had something on them too. But that one w/o any question whatsoever.
#155. To: Original_Intent, Eric Stratton, RickyJ, Cynicom (#154)
There is no good reason to hide and keep under lock and key all of the surveillance videos that would have shown the approach of the jet to the Pentagram ... UNLESS ... what they show contradicts the official lie and shows things that might prove it to have been a total fabrication
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#156. To: AllTheKings'HorsesWontDoIt (#145)
The Babylonian numbering system was used by the Masonic designers of the Seal.
#157. To: FormerLurker (#152)
#158. To: Original_Intent (#154)
#159. To: noone222 (#131)
As you know our military and intel machines are the conjoined weapons of choice used to effect so many of the unspeakable horrors today.
#160. To: Cynicom (#133)
puppy: "But on this issue you're clearly predisposed to uncharacteristic denial across the board."
#161. To: HOUNDDAWG (#159)
And those who seek to retaliate for the ghastly killings of their children will certainly not discriminate if they have the means to kill us. Those of us who ignore the evil perpetrated in our names by the alien occupation govt will not be spared.
#162. To: noone222 (#161)
I truly enjoy your posts !
#163. To: All (#161)
#164. To: Cynicom (#163)
This is my last post on this thread and on any future thread containing the same subject.
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