4um: The Man That Shot Liberty In The Back- Rand Paul (watch!)

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Title: The Man That Shot Liberty In The Back- Rand Paul (watch!)
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Published: Jun 8, 2012
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Post Date: 2012-06-08 10:51:35 by christine
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Views: 13297
Comments: 107

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#1. To: All (#0)

his final words.."what do you say? it's over."

christine posted on 2012-06-08 10:57:21 ET Reply Trace Private Reply

#2. To: christine (#0)

I'm sure there are some unhappy RP supporters out there.

I am equally sure they understand very little of how politics actually works, how you build an ideological movement (as Buckley did with conservative movement in the Sixties through the mid-Seventies), how you gain chits with various factions of the party, how you take over state GOP organizations (as the evangelicals did in the Nineties).

If you intend to demand purist perfection, you may as well give up voting.

I'll sit back and wait for 4um's usual doom-mongers to show up and piss themselves over all things Pauline. Like clockwork. And, of course, they are to a man the biggest supporters Ron Paul ever had, maxxed out their donations to him in every election, blah-blah-blah...sure they did.

TooConservative posted on 2012-06-08 11:00:41 ET Reply Trace Private Reply

#3. To: christine (#1)

his final words.."what do you say? it's over."

It's over for him anyway. There are always going to be lightweights who entertain completely unrealistic expectations and then, when they are disappointed, drop out completely while complaining bitterly about how they were betrayed.

The real Liberty movement isn't dropping out at all. Anyway, I'm not and neither are the people I know. I think it'll be the Truthy Alex Jones people that drop out.

TooConservative posted on 2012-06-08 11:06:59 ET Reply Trace Private Reply

#4. To: TooConservative (#3)

Well in sooth, there are those among us that believe that there is something DEEPLY wrong with ‘the system.’ Things are irreparably and dangerously out of kilter in many respects.

But at a more conventional level of contemplation even the less radical of us see that we are being served two choices: WAR and DEFICITS or –WAR and DEFICITS. Folks are still voting R or D and whatever they are served up, the result will be more fruitless foreign adventures and more insane borrowing. The only difference is whether you’re inclined to shovel those heaps of FRNs into yet more Bolshevik fiddling around or into a major two front war.

Forgive me if I vote my conscience and vote third party or stay the hell out of it for good and all.

Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin to slit throats. - H. L. Mencken

randge posted on 2012-06-08 11:28:58 ET Reply Trace Private Reply

#5. To: TooConservative (#3)

The real Liberty movement isn't dropping out at all

I agree on this part - the 'Real' one won't be stopped by this game being played on everyone - the information pushed into American's faces by Ron's Faux run can't be deleted ... it did its job and brought more into the ranks

They didn't like my gift to the community, so I started a blog my place to rant

~ the truth will set ya free, but only after it pisses ya off ~

Amandil posted on 2012-06-08 11:48:32 ET Reply Trace Private Reply

#6. To: TooConservative (#2)

Well, if it gets too boring for you here, I'm sure there are some name calling threads at LP that could use your amazing insight.

Obnoxicated posted on 2012-06-08 11:53:04 ET Reply Trace Private Reply

#7. To: TooConservative (#2)

If you intend to demand purist perfection, you may as well give up voting.

That's why the party welcomes David Duke.

Our white sons are sent to war against non-whites who have done us no harm, and this is not called crime;
at home, non-white criminals prey upon our wives and daughters and this is not called war.

Prefrontal Vortex posted on 2012-06-08 11:59:15 ET Reply Trace Private Reply

#8. To: Obnoxicated (#6)

Gutless, dishonorable traitor scum! (Or is it: scum traitor?)

Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin to slit throats. - H. L. Mencken

randge posted on 2012-06-08 11:59:32 ET Reply Trace Private Reply

#9. To: randge, 4 (#4)

Forgive me if I vote my conscience and vote third party or stay the hell out of it for good and all.

That's exactly where many of us now find ourselves.

Break the Conventions - Keep the Commandments - G.K.Chesterson

Lod posted on 2012-06-08 12:10:54 ET Reply Trace Private Reply

#10. To: randge (#4)

Well in sooth, there are those among us that believe that there is something DEEPLY wrong with ‘the system.’ Things are irreparably and dangerously out of kilter in many respects.

The mistake is believing all of this happened very suddenly or recently. It didn't. It's long-term incrementalism, much of it with statist roots from the Civil War era which hijacked the original era of constitutionalism.

You cannot fix it overnight. Nor can you beat back the entrenched institutional and financial interests that propagate this system in their own interests.

Forgive me if I vote my conscience and vote third party or stay the hell out of it for good and all.

I'll never suggest that you don't own your own vote or cannot cast it for anyone you choose. You own your vote, no one else.

TooConservative posted on 2012-06-08 12:15:11 ET Reply Trace Private Reply

#11. To: Obnoxicated (#6)

Well, if it gets too boring for you here, I'm sure there are some name calling threads at LP that could use your amazing insight.

LOL. I'll try not to neglect them too much. You may have noticed that they are very needy.

TooConservative posted on 2012-06-08 12:16:37 ET Reply Trace Private Reply

#12. To: Prefrontal Vortex (#7)

That's why the party welcomes David Duke.

I thought Duke was off leading the cause in Austria or something.

TooConservative posted on 2012-06-08 12:17:44 ET Reply Trace Private Reply

#13. To: TooConservative (#12)

It's just easier to get arrested or fined over there.

Our white sons are sent to war against non-whites who have done us no harm, and this is not called crime;
at home, non-white criminals prey upon our wives and daughters and this is not called war.

Prefrontal Vortex posted on 2012-06-08 12:24:42 ET Reply Trace Private Reply

#14. To: TooConservative (#10)

The mistake is believing all of this happened very suddenly or recently. It didn't. It's long-term incrementalism, much of it with statist roots from the Civil War era which hijacked the original era of constitutionalism.
You cannot fix it overnight. Nor can you beat back the entrenched institutional and financial interests that propagate this system in their own interests.

I won't gainsay anything that you've posted here, except to point out that what is wrong may have roots that go a bit deeper than the period of the War Between the States.

No, you cannot fix it overnight. It is due to our culturally ingrained belief in progress that we are led to suppose that we can fix these things. The history of states and empires tends to demonstrate that an accretion of usurpations and institutionalized corruption is never simply "fixed." It usually ends in conflagration and catastrophe. The result is sometimes better, more often it is worse.

Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin to slit throats. - H. L. Mencken

randge posted on 2012-06-08 12:47:48 ET Reply Trace Private Reply

#15. To: TooConservative (#2)

Carlist fascist Buckley was a deep-cover CIA officer who deployed both real Nazis and neo-Nazis - see his CIA background.

bush_is_a_moonie posted on 2012-06-08 13:07:54 ET Reply Trace Private Reply

#16. To: randge (#14)

I think that no matter what you do, you can only fix things for 20 years or so. The Founders' original republic endured a little longer, about 70 years, until Lincoln destroyed it.

But it is not impossible to turn the clock back, to rein in a galloping planetary government.

And a time of harsh economic reality is about the only time you can force such changes through. During prosper times, no one seriously jostles the regime or challenges its fundamental policies. Like our path to empire, starting with our conquest of portions of the Spanish empire at the end of the nineteenth century.

Those who cannot stay on task through repeated election cycles can never hope to prevail over the bureaucrats, the bankers, the arms manufacturers, the globalist meddlers and nation-builders, well, you get the idea no doubt.

As with Obama, you don't just win one election and get to entirely re-order American life and politics.

TooConservative posted on 2012-06-08 13:12:50 ET Reply Trace Private Reply

#17. To: bush_is_a_moonie (#15)

Carlist fascist Buckley was a deep-cover CIA officer who deployed both real Nazis and neo-Nazis - see his CIA background.

Whatever. My point was about his perseverance in establishing the conservative movement over several decades. These things are often a battle of ideology conducted in academia and in think tanks. You do have to convince policy makers and their acolytes. Some people seem to forget that, during that era, 90% of the country identified itself as liberal. This was the first major challenge Buckley (and Reagan) faced: saying they were conservative without people making fun of them.

Making history is not for the faint-of-heart or the perfectionists.

TooConservative posted on 2012-06-08 13:16:34 ET Reply Trace Private Reply

#18. To: TooConservative (#2)

I'll sit back and wait for 4um's usual doom-mongers to show up and piss themselves

They're going to ban guns! British bankers! The Rothschilds! Jews! Conpiracies!!! EVERYTHING IS A CONSPIRACY!!!!!!!!!

I sense a disturbance in the farce. Much gnashing will ensue.

Turtle posted on 2012-06-08 13:17:10 ET Reply Trace Private Reply

#19. To: Turtle (#18)

They're going to ban guns! British bankers! The Rothschilds! Jews! Conpiracies!!! EVERYTHING IS A CONSPIRACY!!!!!!!!!

And you are part of the conspiracy. I have absolutely no evidence of that but I just know it. J'accuse!

TooConservative posted on 2012-06-08 13:19:26 ET Reply Trace Private Reply

#20. To: TooConservative (#17)

Some people seem to forget that, during that era, 90% of the country identified itself as liberal. This was the first major challenge Buckley (and Reagan) faced: saying they were conservative without people making fun of them.

Fat lot of good it did us. Look around you. Buck Fuckley.

Making history is not for the faint-of-heart or the perfectionists.

I am not a perfectionist. But I am not a collaborator, and I won't support collaborators either.

Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin to slit throats. - H. L. Mencken

randge posted on 2012-06-08 13:28:31 ET Reply Trace Private Reply

#21. To: randge (#20)

I am not a perfectionist. But I am not a collaborator, and I won't support collaborators either.

Well, we're flinging about a lot of loaded rhetoric here. I get your point, you get mine. I don't see any point in a knockdown drag-out fight over it.

Could I win the debate by accusing you of being a confessed gay canary? That works on some forums.

Anyway, the Liberty movement has made tremendous progress since 2008. We should think twice before throwing that away.

There are games in life that we must play to move ahead, building a stake, then cashing in our chips. And Lady Luck is not always kind even to a just cause. The voters are fickle. And stupid.

If you're too cynical, you may as well not vote at all. The Founders' certainly didn't think much of voting. But that is our system and our only path to success.

TooConservative posted on 2012-06-08 13:33:48 ET Reply Trace Private Reply

#22. To: christine, 4 (#1)

his final words.."what do you say? it's over."

I could only stand about 1 minute of his sniveling. I despise whiners. I just hate them with a passion.

It's not over.

This is what happens when one depends on another man (or woman) to make things right, when that person should take personal responsibility to shape their own destinies, and quit depending on others. If everyone would do that, there would be no more psychopathic leaders, because these psychopaths depend on others to depend on them.

So now he is all sad. Poor baby needs a pacifier. Sucks to be him. He is no better than a sheep. In fact, imo, he is even lower than a sheep.

------------------------------------------

Whenever there's resistance, examine your motivation. Whenever there's flow, consider taking action.

PSUSA2 posted on 2012-06-08 13:35:50 ET Reply Trace Private Reply

#23. To: TooConservative (#21)

Anyway, the Liberty movement has made tremendous progress since 2008. We should think twice before throwing that away.

Forgive me if I've put too fine a point on it. Lots of us are heaps pissed off today.

Let me say that I respect your grasp of issues and personalities. There is always something to be learned from reading your posts. I also admire your continued sanguine outlook on things. May it be as you say.

Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin to slit throats. - H. L. Mencken

randge posted on 2012-06-08 13:48:02 ET Reply Trace Private Reply

#24. To: christine (#0) (Edited)

Well the best possible outcome from this is that Oboingo get's reelected. God help us if Romney wins.

As far as Rand, he'll forever be a treacherous leech as far as I'm concerned.

"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker posted on 2012-06-08 13:51:32 ET Reply Trace Private Reply

#25. To: randge (#23)

Forgive me if I've put too fine a point on it. Lots of us are heaps pissed off today.

I get that, the disappointment.

It's what you do about it, whether you quit when you fall short. Quitters never win, especially in a contested field.

For a just man falleth seven times, and riseth up again: but the wicked shall fall into mischief. - Proverbs 24:16

TooConservative posted on 2012-06-08 14:15:36 ET Reply Trace Private Reply

#26. To: PSUSA2, randge (#22)

I could only stand about 1 minute of his sniveling. I despise whiners. I just hate them with a passion.
It's not over.

I agree. I guess I'd say let those who are most disappointed have a bit of grief. But that is no reason to quit. We have made tremendous progress and the future will hold many more opportunities, particularly as the overseas empire and its financial burden turns into a political and fiscal shooting war with the retiring Baby Boomers. And these poor kids who were sold into paying all the bills for it before they were even born; you know they aren't going to tolerate that forever because they want to have kids and a house too.

Just as we are seeing the beginning of the end of the big public employee union goons in recent news, this fight I am describing is coming much sooner than later. The Empire vs. the Boomers. But you can't win if you desert the battle. History is not made by the fickle or the timid.

TooConservative posted on 2012-06-08 14:21:35 ET Reply Trace Private Reply

#27. To: All (#26)

Examiner: Ron Paul fans not real thrilled with Rand’s endorsement of Romney

TooConservative posted on 2012-06-08 14:40:20 ET Reply Trace Private Reply

#28. To: TooConservative (#26)

The Empire vs. the Boomers. But you can't win if you desert the battle. History is not made by the fickle or the timid.

Good post.

The part I quoted is especially true.

Those that depended on Paul to fix it are just as fickle and timid as any sheep. First of all, the problems weren't created by one man, and they will not be fixed by one man. Second of all, I can see this as a possible operation to affect morale of those that stubbornly remain a part of the system, thinking it can be somehow fixed (or restored). When morale is affected, people don't suddenly say "the whole system is corrupt" and look for an alternative system, they give up on it all. It's hard to motivate the disillusioned.

Paul, and his supporters are just as plugged into the corrupt system as any other politician and that politicians supporters.

IMO the only way to fix it is to view it from the outside looking in, destroy it, and evolve into another system. Even if it could be fixed, history would repeat itself. But imo people aren't ready to evolve in the numbers needed. Not yet anyway.

------------------------------------------

Whenever there's resistance, examine your motivation. Whenever there's flow, consider taking action.

PSUSA2 posted on 2012-06-08 14:44:29 ET Reply Trace Private Reply

#29. To: TooConservative (#27)

Richie Proffitt: I guess the 30 minute meeting with Mittens was actually a 12 hour lobotomy. Maybe the whole zombies thing is to get us to fall in line and vote status quo. Meh.

lol!

" If you cannot govern yourself, you will be governed by assholes. " Randge, Poet de Forum, 1/11/11

"Life's tough, and even tougher if you're stupid." --John Wayne

abraxas posted on 2012-06-08 15:01:19 ET Reply Trace Private Reply

#30. To: abraxas, PSUSA2, FormerLurker, randge, christine (#29)

Richie Proffitt: I guess the 30 minute meeting with Mittens was actually a 12 hour lobotomy. Maybe the whole zombies thing is to get us to fall in line and vote status quo. Meh.

It's a political party, not the Donner Party. [ I just thought that one up though it seems like an obvious quip now. : ) ]

The most vocal are the losers that actually create more problems for the Liberty movement than they have ever contributed to it. Naturally, they have deemed themselves the primary spokesmen and formulators of approved policy.

Rand knew this would be the outcome, notice his remarks about his dad's followers who think they rule the internet...he knew this would be coming.

TooConservative posted on 2012-06-08 15:08:29 ET Reply Trace Private Reply

#31. To: TooConservative (#30)

Rand knew this would be the outcome, notice his remarks about his dad's followers who think they rule the internet...he knew this would be coming.

You can read his mind eh? You KNOW what he's thinking right? Well good for you.

ANY idiot should have known what to expect if they betrayed their country and their own father's presidential campaign, selling out to the poster child of war, mayhem, and corporate takeover of the US political system.

FormerLurker posted on 2012-06-08 15:13:20 ET Reply Trace Private Reply

#32. To: PSUSA2 (#28)

IMO the only way to fix it is to view it from the outside looking in, destroy it, and evolve into another system. Even if it could be fixed, history would repeat itself. But imo people aren't ready to evolve in the numbers needed. Not yet anyway.

Most rational people would rather vote for a man who they believe will change the system back to what it was SUPPOSED to be, rather than wage open warfare against their own countrymen, and unleashing unimaginable death and destruction which most likely WILL touch their own families and homes.

FormerLurker posted on 2012-06-08 15:16:36 ET Reply Trace Private Reply

#33. To: FormerLurker (#31)

ANY idiot should have known what to expect if they betrayed their country and their own father's presidential campaign...

Ron Paul emailed supporters yesterday to indicate he expected no more than 500 delegates total (obviously including some of the unreliable Santorum/Gingrich delegates).

Ron's campaign was suspended and he had admitted he could not expect the delegates needed to become the nominee.

Those are the facts. You seem to be in denial about it.

TooConservative posted on 2012-06-08 15:22:19 ET Reply Trace Private Reply

#34. To: TooConservative (#30)

It's a political party, not the Donner Party. [

I like it.....a LOT! : )

All I know is that the GOP is not the liberty or freedom party. It's a red big spending war party. How many decades of crapping on the Constitution must we endure before we concede this truth?

I am excited about the liberty movement.....but, I do not see it progressing within the two party fraud and I don't think we have more decades to waste on hoping/trying to make it progress.

" If you cannot govern yourself, you will be governed by assholes. " Randge, Poet de Forum, 1/11/11

"Life's tough, and even tougher if you're stupid." --John Wayne

abraxas posted on 2012-06-08 15:23:45 ET Reply Trace Private Reply

#35. To: randge (#4)

But at a more conventional level of contemplation even the less radical of us see that we are being served two choices: WAR and DEFICITS or –WAR and DEFICITS. Folks are still voting R or D and whatever they are served up, the result will be more fruitless foreign adventures and more insane borrowing. The only difference is whether you’re inclined to shovel those heaps of FRNs into yet more Bolshevik fiddling around or into a major two front war.
Forgive me if I vote my conscience and vote third party or stay the hell out of it for good and all.

You got it. A vote for either one of the establishment clowns--clowns who aren't funny--just insures more war and more debt. 'Ef 'em! I don't vote for Tweedledumb or his brother, Tweedledumber.

Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. Lord Acton

The human herd stampedes on the fields of facts and the valleys of truth to get to the desert of ignorance. Saman Mohammadi

"If a politician found he had cannibals among his constituents, he would promise them missionaries for dinner." Mencken

"..if the military is going to defend our freedoms, then we need freedoms to defend. Our freedoms must be restored before the military can defend them..." Lawrence M. Vance

Você me trata desse jeito só porque eu sou preto. Junior (my youngest son)

James Deffenbach posted on 2012-06-08 15:30:13 ET Reply Trace Private Reply

#36. To: TooConservative (#33)

Those are the facts. You seem to be in denial about it.

The facts are that when the chips are down, you don't give up, unless you planned on giving up before you started or never had the guts and stamina to make it to the end in the first place.

There was still the possibility of a brokered convention, or even a 3rd party run by RP if that failed. Now, we know that will never happen.

FormerLurker posted on 2012-06-08 15:38:17 ET Reply Trace Private Reply

#37. To: abraxas, FormerLurker, PSUSA2, randge, christine (#34)

I like it.....a LOT! : )

I liked it way too much. LOL.

I am excited about the liberty movement.....but, I do not see it progressing within the two party fraud and I don't think we have more decades to waste on hoping/trying to make it progress.

I agree but with a different conclusion.

The empire is about to hit the reef over the Boomer retirement. Opportunity knocks and the under-35s have figured out they got picked to be the fall guys for this corrupt scheme by pols (and parents and grandparents) who just lived it up, knowing they'd be dead long before the final bills came due. We can shortly expect "generational warfare" to become the supposedly forbidden political topic and libmedia and the two major crime families in the District will certainly try to make it stick.

Some of these faint hearts now deserting the Liberty cause in a huff will wish they hadn't abandoned the cause just as we approach greatly expanded opportunity.

You see, you really can cut government when you are dead-ass broke.

In addition: we have seen key blocs in the Senate that were established to pursue particular objectives. The Gang of Fourteen, the Gang of Six, etc.

Well, you cook up a coalition of senators like Coburn, DeMint, Rand Paul, Mike Lee, Ron Johnson, Pat Toomey, and you add a few more like our very fine RP-endorsed candidate for MN senate, Kurt Bills (and an amazingly attractive candidate and excellent speaker) and then you add Ted Cruz of Texas to that coalition. And you might pick up a few more, like the Fischer woman from Nebraska.

That starts to look like a segment of the GOP that can control everything that moves through the U.S. Senate and every confirmation hearing, regardless of who is president or what some worthless old RINO like McConnell tries to pull.

But, of course, some people would rather scream "Betrayal" and take their marbles and go home. Well, good riddance.

TooConservative posted on 2012-06-08 15:40:03 ET Reply Trace Private Reply

#38. To: James Deffenbach (#35)

You got it. A vote for either one of the establishment clowns--clowns who aren't funny--just insures more war and more debt. 'Ef 'em! I don't vote for Tweedledumb or his brother, Tweedledumber.

You can choose to vote how you wish regardless of what Rand says.

Just let Rand make his (largely meaningless) little endorsement. Given he stated his first choice was his dad no matter what, it isn't exactly the most passionate endorsement.

TooConservative posted on 2012-06-08 15:43:28 ET Reply Trace Private Reply

#39. To: TooConservative (#37)

But, of course, some people would rather scream "Betrayal" and take their marbles and go home. Well, good riddance.

You're delusional if you think things will change for the better just because some slick talking guy in a suit TELLS you "just wait till X Y and Z" happens 10 years from now.

It might be a comfortable wet dream for some, but not for me.

Good luck on your fantasy world though, I'm sure it'll work out just as you expect... /sarc

FormerLurker posted on 2012-06-08 15:44:40 ET Reply Trace Private Reply

#40. To: christine (#0)

This thread needs a theme song........

" If you cannot govern yourself, you will be governed by assholes. " Randge, Poet de Forum, 1/11/11

"Life's tough, and even tougher if you're stupid." --John Wayne

abraxas posted on 2012-06-08 15:58:56 ET Reply Trace Private Reply

#41. To: abraxas (#40)

Thanks - you know that I love that song and story.

Break the Conventions - Keep the Commandments - G.K.Chesterson

Lod posted on 2012-06-08 16:04:12 ET Reply Trace Private Reply

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