4um: The Man That Shot Liberty In The Back- Rand Paul (watch!)

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Title: The Man That Shot Liberty In The Back- Rand Paul (watch!)
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Published: Jun 8, 2012
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Post Date: 2012-06-08 10:51:35 by christine
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Views: 13397
Comments: 107

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#24. To: christine (#0) (Edited)

Well the best possible outcome from this is that Oboingo get's reelected. God help us if Romney wins.

As far as Rand, he'll forever be a treacherous leech as far as I'm concerned.

"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker posted on 2012-06-08 13:51:32 ET Reply Trace Private Reply

#25. To: randge (#23)

Forgive me if I've put too fine a point on it. Lots of us are heaps pissed off today.

I get that, the disappointment.

It's what you do about it, whether you quit when you fall short. Quitters never win, especially in a contested field.

For a just man falleth seven times, and riseth up again: but the wicked shall fall into mischief. - Proverbs 24:16

TooConservative posted on 2012-06-08 14:15:36 ET Reply Trace Private Reply

#26. To: PSUSA2, randge (#22)

I could only stand about 1 minute of his sniveling. I despise whiners. I just hate them with a passion.
It's not over.

I agree. I guess I'd say let those who are most disappointed have a bit of grief. But that is no reason to quit. We have made tremendous progress and the future will hold many more opportunities, particularly as the overseas empire and its financial burden turns into a political and fiscal shooting war with the retiring Baby Boomers. And these poor kids who were sold into paying all the bills for it before they were even born; you know they aren't going to tolerate that forever because they want to have kids and a house too.

Just as we are seeing the beginning of the end of the big public employee union goons in recent news, this fight I am describing is coming much sooner than later. The Empire vs. the Boomers. But you can't win if you desert the battle. History is not made by the fickle or the timid.

TooConservative posted on 2012-06-08 14:21:35 ET Reply Trace Private Reply

#27. To: All (#26)

Examiner: Ron Paul fans not real thrilled with Rand’s endorsement of Romney

TooConservative posted on 2012-06-08 14:40:20 ET Reply Trace Private Reply

#28. To: TooConservative (#26)

The Empire vs. the Boomers. But you can't win if you desert the battle. History is not made by the fickle or the timid.

Good post.

The part I quoted is especially true.

Those that depended on Paul to fix it are just as fickle and timid as any sheep. First of all, the problems weren't created by one man, and they will not be fixed by one man. Second of all, I can see this as a possible operation to affect morale of those that stubbornly remain a part of the system, thinking it can be somehow fixed (or restored). When morale is affected, people don't suddenly say "the whole system is corrupt" and look for an alternative system, they give up on it all. It's hard to motivate the disillusioned.

Paul, and his supporters are just as plugged into the corrupt system as any other politician and that politicians supporters.

IMO the only way to fix it is to view it from the outside looking in, destroy it, and evolve into another system. Even if it could be fixed, history would repeat itself. But imo people aren't ready to evolve in the numbers needed. Not yet anyway.

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Whenever there's resistance, examine your motivation. Whenever there's flow, consider taking action.

PSUSA2 posted on 2012-06-08 14:44:29 ET Reply Trace Private Reply

#29. To: TooConservative (#27)

Richie Proffitt: I guess the 30 minute meeting with Mittens was actually a 12 hour lobotomy. Maybe the whole zombies thing is to get us to fall in line and vote status quo. Meh.

lol!

" If you cannot govern yourself, you will be governed by assholes. " Randge, Poet de Forum, 1/11/11

"Life's tough, and even tougher if you're stupid." --John Wayne

abraxas posted on 2012-06-08 15:01:19 ET Reply Trace Private Reply

#30. To: abraxas, PSUSA2, FormerLurker, randge, christine (#29)

Richie Proffitt: I guess the 30 minute meeting with Mittens was actually a 12 hour lobotomy. Maybe the whole zombies thing is to get us to fall in line and vote status quo. Meh.

It's a political party, not the Donner Party. [ I just thought that one up though it seems like an obvious quip now. : ) ]

The most vocal are the losers that actually create more problems for the Liberty movement than they have ever contributed to it. Naturally, they have deemed themselves the primary spokesmen and formulators of approved policy.

Rand knew this would be the outcome, notice his remarks about his dad's followers who think they rule the internet...he knew this would be coming.

TooConservative posted on 2012-06-08 15:08:29 ET Reply Trace Private Reply

#31. To: TooConservative (#30)

Rand knew this would be the outcome, notice his remarks about his dad's followers who think they rule the internet...he knew this would be coming.

You can read his mind eh? You KNOW what he's thinking right? Well good for you.

ANY idiot should have known what to expect if they betrayed their country and their own father's presidential campaign, selling out to the poster child of war, mayhem, and corporate takeover of the US political system.

FormerLurker posted on 2012-06-08 15:13:20 ET Reply Trace Private Reply

#32. To: PSUSA2 (#28)

IMO the only way to fix it is to view it from the outside looking in, destroy it, and evolve into another system. Even if it could be fixed, history would repeat itself. But imo people aren't ready to evolve in the numbers needed. Not yet anyway.

Most rational people would rather vote for a man who they believe will change the system back to what it was SUPPOSED to be, rather than wage open warfare against their own countrymen, and unleashing unimaginable death and destruction which most likely WILL touch their own families and homes.

FormerLurker posted on 2012-06-08 15:16:36 ET Reply Trace Private Reply

#33. To: FormerLurker (#31)

ANY idiot should have known what to expect if they betrayed their country and their own father's presidential campaign...

Ron Paul emailed supporters yesterday to indicate he expected no more than 500 delegates total (obviously including some of the unreliable Santorum/Gingrich delegates).

Ron's campaign was suspended and he had admitted he could not expect the delegates needed to become the nominee.

Those are the facts. You seem to be in denial about it.

TooConservative posted on 2012-06-08 15:22:19 ET Reply Trace Private Reply

#34. To: TooConservative (#30)

It's a political party, not the Donner Party. [

I like it.....a LOT! : )

All I know is that the GOP is not the liberty or freedom party. It's a red big spending war party. How many decades of crapping on the Constitution must we endure before we concede this truth?

I am excited about the liberty movement.....but, I do not see it progressing within the two party fraud and I don't think we have more decades to waste on hoping/trying to make it progress.

" If you cannot govern yourself, you will be governed by assholes. " Randge, Poet de Forum, 1/11/11

"Life's tough, and even tougher if you're stupid." --John Wayne

abraxas posted on 2012-06-08 15:23:45 ET Reply Trace Private Reply

#35. To: randge (#4)

But at a more conventional level of contemplation even the less radical of us see that we are being served two choices: WAR and DEFICITS or –WAR and DEFICITS. Folks are still voting R or D and whatever they are served up, the result will be more fruitless foreign adventures and more insane borrowing. The only difference is whether you’re inclined to shovel those heaps of FRNs into yet more Bolshevik fiddling around or into a major two front war.
Forgive me if I vote my conscience and vote third party or stay the hell out of it for good and all.

You got it. A vote for either one of the establishment clowns--clowns who aren't funny--just insures more war and more debt. 'Ef 'em! I don't vote for Tweedledumb or his brother, Tweedledumber.

Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. Lord Acton

The human herd stampedes on the fields of facts and the valleys of truth to get to the desert of ignorance. Saman Mohammadi

"If a politician found he had cannibals among his constituents, he would promise them missionaries for dinner." Mencken

"..if the military is going to defend our freedoms, then we need freedoms to defend. Our freedoms must be restored before the military can defend them..." Lawrence M. Vance

Você me trata desse jeito só porque eu sou preto. Junior (my youngest son)

James Deffenbach posted on 2012-06-08 15:30:13 ET Reply Trace Private Reply

#36. To: TooConservative (#33)

Those are the facts. You seem to be in denial about it.

The facts are that when the chips are down, you don't give up, unless you planned on giving up before you started or never had the guts and stamina to make it to the end in the first place.

There was still the possibility of a brokered convention, or even a 3rd party run by RP if that failed. Now, we know that will never happen.

FormerLurker posted on 2012-06-08 15:38:17 ET Reply Trace Private Reply

#37. To: abraxas, FormerLurker, PSUSA2, randge, christine (#34)

I like it.....a LOT! : )

I liked it way too much. LOL.

I am excited about the liberty movement.....but, I do not see it progressing within the two party fraud and I don't think we have more decades to waste on hoping/trying to make it progress.

I agree but with a different conclusion.

The empire is about to hit the reef over the Boomer retirement. Opportunity knocks and the under-35s have figured out they got picked to be the fall guys for this corrupt scheme by pols (and parents and grandparents) who just lived it up, knowing they'd be dead long before the final bills came due. We can shortly expect "generational warfare" to become the supposedly forbidden political topic and libmedia and the two major crime families in the District will certainly try to make it stick.

Some of these faint hearts now deserting the Liberty cause in a huff will wish they hadn't abandoned the cause just as we approach greatly expanded opportunity.

You see, you really can cut government when you are dead-ass broke.

In addition: we have seen key blocs in the Senate that were established to pursue particular objectives. The Gang of Fourteen, the Gang of Six, etc.

Well, you cook up a coalition of senators like Coburn, DeMint, Rand Paul, Mike Lee, Ron Johnson, Pat Toomey, and you add a few more like our very fine RP-endorsed candidate for MN senate, Kurt Bills (and an amazingly attractive candidate and excellent speaker) and then you add Ted Cruz of Texas to that coalition. And you might pick up a few more, like the Fischer woman from Nebraska.

That starts to look like a segment of the GOP that can control everything that moves through the U.S. Senate and every confirmation hearing, regardless of who is president or what some worthless old RINO like McConnell tries to pull.

But, of course, some people would rather scream "Betrayal" and take their marbles and go home. Well, good riddance.

TooConservative posted on 2012-06-08 15:40:03 ET Reply Trace Private Reply

#38. To: James Deffenbach (#35)

You got it. A vote for either one of the establishment clowns--clowns who aren't funny--just insures more war and more debt. 'Ef 'em! I don't vote for Tweedledumb or his brother, Tweedledumber.

You can choose to vote how you wish regardless of what Rand says.

Just let Rand make his (largely meaningless) little endorsement. Given he stated his first choice was his dad no matter what, it isn't exactly the most passionate endorsement.

TooConservative posted on 2012-06-08 15:43:28 ET Reply Trace Private Reply

#39. To: TooConservative (#37)

But, of course, some people would rather scream "Betrayal" and take their marbles and go home. Well, good riddance.

You're delusional if you think things will change for the better just because some slick talking guy in a suit TELLS you "just wait till X Y and Z" happens 10 years from now.

It might be a comfortable wet dream for some, but not for me.

Good luck on your fantasy world though, I'm sure it'll work out just as you expect... /sarc

FormerLurker posted on 2012-06-08 15:44:40 ET Reply Trace Private Reply

#40. To: christine (#0)

This thread needs a theme song........

" If you cannot govern yourself, you will be governed by assholes. " Randge, Poet de Forum, 1/11/11

"Life's tough, and even tougher if you're stupid." --John Wayne

abraxas posted on 2012-06-08 15:58:56 ET Reply Trace Private Reply

#41. To: abraxas (#40)

Thanks - you know that I love that song and story.

Break the Conventions - Keep the Commandments - G.K.Chesterson

Lod posted on 2012-06-08 16:04:12 ET Reply Trace Private Reply

#42. To: Lod (#41)

Truth be told, I had an suspicion you would like that one Loddy. : )

" If you cannot govern yourself, you will be governed by assholes. " Randge, Poet de Forum, 1/11/11

"Life's tough, and even tougher if you're stupid." --John Wayne

abraxas posted on 2012-06-08 16:05:20 ET Reply Trace Private Reply

#43. To: FormerLurker (#32)

Most rational people

If they're the rational ones, I'm glad I'm nuttier than a fruitcake.

Being rational doesn't mean wishing for a easy, painless cure, It means seeing what's ahead in the real world. What's ahead is pain for those still holding on to their precious little systems. They either wake the fuck up or suffer the consequences.

I think they'll suffer though. NOt too many want to give up their little political / religious delusions. That would be too painful...

most don't have the balls to wake up. They think they'll end up with nothing if they give up the current systems. But what do they have now, WITH their current systems? Slavery.

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Whenever there's resistance, examine your motivation. Whenever there's flow, consider taking action.

PSUSA2 posted on 2012-06-08 16:09:15 ET Reply Trace Private Reply

#44. To: abraxas (#42)

I jacked-up the volume and it was sing-along time.

Now to feed the poochies.

Break the Conventions - Keep the Commandments - G.K.Chesterson

Lod posted on 2012-06-08 16:09:58 ET Reply Trace Private Reply

#45. To: FormerLurker (#39)

Good luck on your fantasy world though, I'm sure it'll work out just as you expect... /sarc

Good luck with honing your obvious talents as a born loser.

BTW, did you somehow think that Ron Paul would, alone, win the presidency, transform the country, then live forever to keep things nice and tidy for you? Do you even understand the political parties have farm teams, just like sports does?

Some people have some very unrealistic ideas about politics. Which is why they always lose and then quit, muttering that the system is rigged. I've seen it more times than I can count.

TooConservative posted on 2012-06-08 16:10:39 ET Reply Trace Private Reply

#46. To: PSUSA2 (#43)

In the American Revolution, the enemy's home was across an ocean, and they had to sail across that ocean on wooden ships to get here, aside from those who were already here.

Back then, weaponry consisted of muskets, cannons firing steel shot a short distance, and swords.

What do you really think would happen in an allout revolution these days here in the US?

FormerLurker posted on 2012-06-08 16:12:43 ET Reply Trace Private Reply

#47. To: TooConservative (#45)

Good luck with honing your obvious talents as a born loser.

I don't consider kissing the ass of my enemy and allowing him to dictate my future, "winning".

FormerLurker posted on 2012-06-08 16:14:01 ET Reply Trace Private Reply

#48. To: Lod (#44)

You best feed the pooches, Pilgrim. : )

lol.....I don't like tricks Pilgrim. I need to watch that one again, great lines in that one.

" If you cannot govern yourself, you will be governed by assholes. " Randge, Poet de Forum, 1/11/11

"Life's tough, and even tougher if you're stupid." --John Wayne

abraxas posted on 2012-06-08 16:17:11 ET Reply Trace Private Reply

#49. To: TooConservative (#45)

BTW, did you somehow think that Ron Paul would, alone, win the presidency, transform the country, then live forever to keep things nice and tidy for you? Do you even understand the political parties have farm teams, just like sports does?

He would have certainly had a profound impact on this country. He could have appointed HONEST people with INTEGRITY into critical positions, such as Attorney General, FDA Commissioner, Secretary of Defense, Director of Central Intelligence, and various other cabinet level positions.

These individuals could have cleaned house and gutted out corruption, fraud, and high level treason, with the full backing and support of the White House.

So yeah, it could have changed the whole game.

FormerLurker posted on 2012-06-08 16:19:33 ET Reply Trace Private Reply

#50. To: FormerLurker (#46)

What do you really think would happen in an allout revolution these days here in the US?

I no longer see a revolution. At least in the shooting sense of the word. I used to think so, but not anymore.

I see the current systems collapsing under their own weight. What they are trying to do is violate natural law. It's like violating gravity. You can overcome gravity for only so long before you crash (I don't see a soft landing, because that implies control, when they have no control).

That's not to say that people won't go batshit insane, but that is not a revolution. That's just chaos. I don't know how people will react. I'm pretty sure I know how the subhumans will react. Deep down, all humans know how the apes will react.

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Whenever there's resistance, examine your motivation. Whenever there's flow, consider taking action.

PSUSA2 posted on 2012-06-08 16:36:57 ET Reply Trace Private Reply

#51. To: PSUSA2 (#50)

That's not to say that people won't go batshit insane, but that is not a revolution. That's just chaos. I don't know how people will react. I'm pretty sure I know how the subhumans will react. Deep down, all humans know how the apes will react.

ALmost there.. what is that old saying? It's a governments job to pretend to fail???

Problem reaction solution. THe choas will beg for order and that order will suck..

I support the occupation
Fuck it if it kills me. Liberty before death.

titorite posted on 2012-06-08 16:42:07 ET Reply Trace Private Reply

#52. To: FormerLurker (#47)

I don't consider kissing the ass of my enemy and allowing him to dictate my future, "winning".

Well, perhaps a few of my words were rash. No one is saying that you have to vote for Romney. Including Rand Paul. You own your vote.

The Liberty movement, if it is a movement, has to survive Ron Paul's retirement. He's 77 now or close to it. And we do have other good candidates. Kurt Bills is awesome, check out his videos. Man, can he talk.

TooConservative posted on 2012-06-08 16:49:08 ET Reply Trace Private Reply

#53. To: TooConservative, 4 (#52)

It's been said here before, but I too believe that the ultimate, big-time loser in this stupendous CF will be rand paul.

What an absolute moron he's become.

Break the Conventions - Keep the Commandments - G.K.Chesterson

Lod posted on 2012-06-08 16:54:26 ET Reply Trace Private Reply

#54. To: titorite (#51)

what is that old saying? It's a governments job to pretend to fail???

That's a new one to me.

But I disagree with that saying.

You're saying "fail". What is their definition of "success"?

Their "job" is to rule. In order to succeed at that, they boxed themselves into a corner. It is their own successes that did it to them, not their failures. They are so screwed.

If we can outlast them, we will have won. And we will outlast them, because to do so requires cooperation, which only we are capable of. Psychopaths do not play well together.

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Whenever there's resistance, examine your motivation. Whenever there's flow, consider taking action.

PSUSA2 posted on 2012-06-08 17:01:44 ET Reply Trace Private Reply

#55. To: Lod (#53)

It's been said here before, but I too believe that the ultimate, big-time loser in this stupendous CF will be rand paul.
What an absolute moron he's become.

The reactions I've seen here are starting to make me think that Rand could possibly succeed with a bit of luck on a scale that Ron never dreamed of.

By all means, condemn and reject Rand. Be my guest.

TooConservative posted on 2012-06-08 17:30:21 ET Reply Trace Private Reply

#56. To: PSUSA2 (#54)

What is their definition of "success"?

By their I should think we are speaking of economic / political factions that are our fearless leaders in this shitty nation..Our government yuck. Success to people like that is convincing you, me, and the masses to go along with it all as easily as they can will it. They want us to go along with the play of hard dull work, justice preveils, shop wal mart consumer citizen tax payer.

Kinda like isreal there haveing the egyptions digging their own grave so to does our nations' leaders, corporate whores that they are, lead its own citizens to dig their own graves... both metaphorically and literally.

I support the occupation
Fuck it if it kills me. Liberty before death.

titorite posted on 2012-06-08 17:30:53 ET Reply Trace Private Reply

#57. To: TooConservative (#55)

Rand could possibly succeed with a bit of luck on a scale that Ron never dreamed of.

Ah yes.

The pub party will end up owing both.

Cynicom posted on 2012-06-08 17:31:54 ET Reply Trace Private Reply

#58. To: TooConservative (#33)

Ron Paul emailed supporters yesterday to indicate he expected no more than 500 delegates total (obviously including some of the unreliable Santorum/Gingrich delegates).
Ron's campaign was suspended and he had admitted he could not expect the delegates needed to become the nominee.
Those are the facts. You seem to be in denial about it.

Reporting a conservative-estimate of the number of delegates that he's expecting in Tampa to "Stand up for what we believe in" -- an estimate below the nomination threshold -- doesn't equate to suspending his campaign or all that he can possibly expect to support him there as unbound free agents.

Ron Paul: The Revolution Continues - June 6, 2012

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"They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC

GreyLmist posted on 2012-06-08 17:35:09 ET Reply Trace Private Reply

#59. To: GreyLmist (#58)

Reporting a conservative-estimate of the number of delegates that he's expecting in Tampa to "Stand up for what we believe in" -- an estimate below the nomination threshold -- doesn't equate to suspending his campaign or all that he can possibly expect to support him there as unbound free agents.

Apparently, only the diehard Paul supporters believe the delegates are unbound. But it is something of a truism. Even electoral college delegates are, legally, unbound. That doesn't mean they go off to the EC and suddenly start overturning election results in their states.

It appears that most the delegates do feel bound. In some states, they are directly bound as a matter of state law.

In WV on May 8, they had proportional delegates with 22 for Romney, 2 for Santorum, 4 unbound, all directly elected GOP delegates.

In NJ on June 5, they had winner-take-all of 50 delegates, all directly elected by voters.

I sometimes suspect some of you aren't actually Ron Paul supporters because the ones that I know already are aware of the differences in state parties, elections, delegates, etc. 4um has a lot of opinions about Ron Paul but they rarely exhibit the kind of knowledge I expect to see among the hardcore Ron Paul cadre.

And this persists, despite the fact that Obama clearly stole the 2008 nomination from Hitlery because he displayed a deep strategy for capturing every unbound delegate that wasn't nailed down.

TooConservative posted on 2012-06-08 18:37:16 ET Reply Trace Private Reply

#60. To: TooConservative, PSUSA2 (#26)

good posts, both of you. you make some very astute points. there's one point that i think you're missing here and, that is, that many of us are disappointed again in what we see as a lack of honesty here not that we expected Ron Paul to be our saviour. i think all of us on 4um are more realistic than that. this is a repeat of 2008 when Ron Paul pulled out just before the Texas primary. we were led to believe that he had a delegate strategy. now with this, he's pulled the rug out from under all those who worked to become delegates and who planned to cast a vote for him at the convention. he pulled up short again and i am certain that that it was not a sudden decision.

imo, he and Rand both owe his many, many supporters an immediate explanation.

and one more thing...how is it after all the criticism of Romney heretofore can the Pauls suddenly do a 180 and endorse him (assuming Ron plans to also)? that to me is an abandonment of his principles.

christine posted on 2012-06-08 18:38:19 ET Reply Trace Private Reply

#61. To: Cynicom (#57)

Ah yes.
The pub party will end up owing both.

Please continue your excellent work as an ex-supporter of Ron Paul.

TooConservative posted on 2012-06-08 18:38:24 ET Reply Trace Private Reply

#62. To: titorite (#56) (Edited)

They want us to go along with the play of hard dull work, justice preveils, shop wal mart consumer citizen tax payer.

Agreed.

So, how to stop them? Don't go along with them. Don't feed the animals.

People hate what they are forced to do. But they hate the idea of cutting the cords even more. Freedom scares the crap out of most people. That's just one reason why I don't depend on them.

It's not enough to be against the enemy. People have to be FOR something. Anyone that is against what's happening but doesn't create their own alternative is still under their power, because the focus is still only on the psychopaths.

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Whenever there's resistance, examine your motivation. Whenever there's flow, consider taking action.

PSUSA2 posted on 2012-06-08 18:39:38 ET Reply Trace Private Reply

#63. To: christine (#60)

and one more thing...how is it after all the criticism of Romney heretofore can the Pauls suddenly do a 180 and endorse him (assuming Ron plans to also)? that to me is an abandonment of his principles.

Do you honestly think that endorsements ever sway that many votes? The political pros say it can never help more than a few percent. At most.

Even picking a VP from a state is assumed to never help more than 5% in that state. If it's a popular regional figure, like Christie for instance, you might pick up a point or two in bordering states. And that's the best you can hope for with a veep.

Now what is the endorsement of the junior senator of 2 years worth to Romney.

You really aren't reading the Tea leaves correctly.

TooConservative posted on 2012-06-08 18:41:55 ET Reply Trace Private Reply

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