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Dead Constitution
See other Dead Constitution Articles

Title: Ohio Supreme Court Rules Officers Can Just Guess How Fast You’re Going
Source: The Columbus Dispatch
URL Source: http://www.dispatch.com/content/sto ... ourt-speed-estimate-valid.html
Published: Jun 3, 2010
Author: James Nash
Post Date: 2012-06-12 16:43:21 by James Deffenbach
Keywords: None
Views: 184
Comments: 13

Attention lead foots: Police don't need radar to cite you for speeding.

The Ohio Supreme Court ruled this morning that an officer trained to estimate speed by sight doesn't need an electronic gauge to catch speeders.

The 5-1 ruling was a defeat for 27-year-old Akron-area motorist Mark W. Jenney and speeders across the state. Jenney had challenged a visual speed estimate by a Copley police officer, but a trial court and the 9th District Court of Appeals upheld his conviction.

The 8th District Court of Appeals, based in Cleveland, has ruled that police need more than sight alone to meet the standard needed to convict someone of speeding.

"The Eighth District stands alone in holding that an officer's visual estimation of the speed of a vehicle is insufficient to support a finding of guilt, and we agree with the courts that have found the opposite," Supreme Court Justice Maureen O'Connor wrote for the majority. "Rational triers of fact could find a police officer's testimony regarding his unaided visual estimation of a vehicle's speed, when supported by evidence that the officer is trained, certified by (the Ohio Peace Officer Training Academy) or a similar organization, and experienced in making such estimations, sufficient to establish beyond a reasonable doubt the defendant's speed. Independent verification of the vehicle's speed is not necessary to support a conviction for speeding."

Justice Terrence O'Donnell dissented, saying that courts should have more discretion to determine the credibility of an officer's visual speed estimate. Chief Justice Eric Brown, who joined the court after the case was heard, did not participate in the ruling.

During arguments in the case, lawyers for the state and for Barberton -- the venue where Jenney's case was heard -- argued that police can cite drivers for other infractions such as following too closely based on their visual judgments alone.

Jenney's lawyer responded that there should be more than just a visual impression, but he could not say whether a radar or laser speed measurement would be necessary.


Poster Comment:

Despite what Maureen O'Connor (allegedly) "thinks" why would any rational trier of fact take a cop's word when he said that it appeared to him that someone was doing 100 mph or whatever bs he wanted them to believe? Not hardly, at least not me.

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#1. To: James Deffenbach (#0)

The Ohio Supreme Court ruled this morning that an officer trained to estimate speed by sight doesn't need an electronic gauge to catch speeders.

This is pure B.S.

I recall when they used Vascar. This is where they estimated your speed between two points. It all depended on how accurate the cop was pushing the buttons. It was B.S., too.

Even regular radar can be inaccurate. It can pick up the ossilation of your fan blade for the heater on the car and translate that into your speed. ;)

"When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall, one by one." Edmund Burke

BTP Holdings  posted on  2012-06-12   16:51:53 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#2. To: James Deffenbach (#0)

With today's sub-100IQ cops, I wouldn't believe them if they told me that it was raining.

Or anything else on which they had to rely on their mind(s).

Break the Conventions - Keep the Commandments - G.K.Chesterson

Lod  posted on  2012-06-12   16:56:05 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#3. To: Lod (#2)

With today's sub-100IQ cops

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9A06E2DB143DF93AA3575AC0A96F958260 September 9, 1999 METRO NEWS BRIEFS: CONNECTICUT; Judge Rules That Police Can Bar High I.Q. Scores

A Federal judge has dismissed a lawsuit by a man who was barred from the New London police force because he scored too high on an intelligence test. In a ruling made public on Tuesday, Judge Peter C. Dorsey of the United States District Court in New Haven agreed that the plaintiff, Robert Jordan, was denied an opportunity to interview for a police job because of his high test scores. But he said that that did not mean Mr. Jordan was a victim of discrimination.

Judge Dorsey ruled that Mr. Jordan was not denied equal protection because the city of New London applied the same standard to everyone: anyone who scored too high was rejected. Mr. Jordan, 48, who has a bachelor's degree in literature and is an officer with the State Department of Corrections, said he was considering an appeal. ''I was eliminated on the basis of my intellectual makeup,'' he said. ''It's the same as discrimination on the basis of gender or religion or race.''

The IQ and the life expectancy of the average American recently passed each other in opposite directions. - George Carlin

Luke The Spook  posted on  2012-06-12   17:15:04 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#4. To: BTP Holdings (#1)

Vascar is definitely a pos and I would never convict anyone for speeding based on that (but then I wouldn't if they got him with radar or laser either, assuming that he (or she) hadn't killed anyone or wrecked and caused damage to someone else's property--if he just destroys his own that's on him but that is punishment enough).

Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end.    Lord Acton

The human herd stampedes on the fields of facts and the valleys of truth to get to the desert of ignorance. Saman Mohammadi

"If a politician found he had cannibals among his constituents, he would promise them missionaries for dinner." Mencken

"..if the military is going to defend our freedoms, then we need freedoms to defend. Our freedoms must be restored before the military can defend them..."  Lawrence M. Vance

Você me trata desse jeito só porque eu sou preto. Junior (my youngest son)

James Deffenbach  posted on  2012-06-12   18:35:44 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#5. To: Lod (#2)

With today's sub-100IQ cops, I wouldn't believe them if they told me that it was raining.

Or anything else on which they had to rely on their mind(s).

My sentiments exactly. I wouldn't believe them if their tongues were notarized.

Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end.    Lord Acton

The human herd stampedes on the fields of facts and the valleys of truth to get to the desert of ignorance. Saman Mohammadi

"If a politician found he had cannibals among his constituents, he would promise them missionaries for dinner." Mencken

"..if the military is going to defend our freedoms, then we need freedoms to defend. Our freedoms must be restored before the military can defend them..."  Lawrence M. Vance

Você me trata desse jeito só porque eu sou preto. Junior (my youngest son)

James Deffenbach  posted on  2012-06-12   18:36:36 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#6. To: James Deffenbach (#0)

The Ohio Supreme Court ruled this morning that an officer trained to estimate speed by sight doesn't need an electronic gauge to catch speeders.

This in a state that would ticket you for 56 on a 55 MPH Interstate.

Ohio= 1 Fucked-up state

"Find out just what people will submit to and you have found out the exact amount of injustice and wrong which will be imposed upon them. ... The limits of tyrants are prescribed by the endurance of those whom they oppress." Frederic Douglas

Hmmmmm  posted on  2012-06-13   1:17:29 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#7. To: Luke The Spook (#3)

"I was eliminated on the basis of my intellectual makeup," he said. "It's the same as discrimination on the basis of gender or religion or race."

Mr. Jordan is correct. We need brighter cops out there. I've seen how the stupid ones operate, and it's not very pretty. ;)

"When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall, one by one." Edmund Burke

BTP Holdings  posted on  2012-06-13   16:45:00 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#8. To: Hmmmmm (#6)

Ohio= 1 Fucked-up state

I've been there, and you're right.

I once made a delivery to a town north of Cincinnatti. There was a bar on one corner, and a church on the next. It was like that in the whole town. This is a sure sign of people who are not afraid to sin, and not afraid to repent. ROTFLOL!

"When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall, one by one." Edmund Burke

BTP Holdings  posted on  2012-06-13   16:47:43 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#9. To: Luke The Spook (#3)

"I was eliminated on the basis of my intellectual makeup,'' he said. ''It's the same as discrimination on the basis of gender or religion or race.''

It would appear that his IQ is not all that high with an erroneous conclusion like this.

Maybe he was cop material.

"Find out just what people will submit to and you have found out the exact amount of injustice and wrong which will be imposed upon them. ... The limits of tyrants are prescribed by the endurance of those whom they oppress." Frederic Douglas

Hmmmmm  posted on  2012-06-16   12:20:06 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#10. To: James Deffenbach (#0)

: Ohio Supreme Court Rules Officers Can Just Lie How Fast You’re Going

James...

Always make sure your headlines are correct.

Cynicom  posted on  2012-06-16   12:51:48 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#11. To: Cynicom (#10)

You got me there or so it seems.

Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end.    Lord Acton

The human herd stampedes on the fields of facts and the valleys of truth to get to the desert of ignorance. Saman Mohammadi

"If a politician found he had cannibals among his constituents, he would promise them missionaries for dinner." Mencken

"..if the military is going to defend our freedoms, then we need freedoms to defend. Our freedoms must be restored before the military can defend them..."  Lawrence M. Vance

Você me trata desse jeito só porque eu sou preto. Junior (my youngest son)

James Deffenbach  posted on  2012-06-16   23:19:38 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#12. To: Hmmmmm (#6)

This in a state that would ticket you for 56 on a 55 MPH Interstate.

At least in Illinois they will give you 62 mph, except near the capitol city. ;)

"When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall, one by one." Edmund Burke

BTP Holdings  posted on  2012-06-20   17:37:31 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#13. To: Luke The Spook (#3)

A Federal judge has dismissed a lawsuit by a man who was barred from the New London police force because he scored too high on an intelligence test

NUTS!

"When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall, one by one." Edmund Burke

BTP Holdings  posted on  2012-06-20   17:39:34 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


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