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Ron Paul
See other Ron Paul Articles

Title: Which Way for the Paul Movement?
Source: [None]
URL Source: http://www.antiwar.com/blog/2012/06/21/15553/
Published: Jun 22, 2012
Author: Justin Raimondo,
Post Date: 2012-06-22 05:54:16 by Ada
Keywords: None
Views: 531
Comments: 33

Writing in the New York Times, Brian Doherty, author of a recently published book on Ron Paul, asks the question: “For the Ron Paul Wing, Now What?” In the midst of an otherwise insightful and sympathetic piece, we get a disapproving reference to a lawsuit against the Republican National Committee by one of Paul’s supporters, and this:

“While Ron Paul has no future in politics, the Ron Paul machine and his son, Kentucky Senator Rand Paul, will. That’s why the political pros in the Paul movement don’t appreciate acting-out like Richard Gilbert’s lawsuit. That’s also why Rand Paul risked the wrath of his father’s hardcore fans by endorsing Mitt Romney, just as soon as Ron Paul admitted he would not win.”

Gilbert’s lawsuit, which contends the RNC cannot legally bind pledged delegates to vote for Romney, and Rand’s embrace of the warmongering, anti-libertarian Mitt Romney are related — how? The link is only in the minds of those alleged “political pros”– the same ones who ran insipid campaign ads, consistently played down foreign policy issues, and sucked up to Romney early on.

Basically reiterating the line being put out by Rand Paul’s apologists, Doherty writes:

“Senator Paul knows he needs to reach beyond his father’s 10-15 percent base in the primaries to more mainstream, red-state, talk-radio Republicans. He can’t do that by marking himself as a traitor to the party. So he stands behind nominee Romney and plans to actively campaign for him.”

Appealing to “red state talk radio” Republicans is code for selling out on the vital foreign policy issue. Sen. Paul claims he had a personal meeting with Romney and that he was reassured that President Romney would conduct American foreign policy in a “mature” manner — whatever that is supposed to mean.

As for this business about being considered a “traitor”: George Romney never endorsed Barry Goldwater. Indeed, he spent a good deal of his energy branding the party’s 1964 nominee a reckless extremist. He went on to run for president in 1968, and, far from being considered a “traitor,” went on to serve in the Nixon administration as HUD Secretary. George H. W. Bush’s Points of Light Foundation conferred on the elder Romney its Lifetime Achievement Award. You can’t get much more Republican than that.

If there is some rule that all Republican officeholders must formally endorse and campaign for the national nominee, then it apparently doesn’t apply to the Romneys. (Then again, this is precisely why Romney’s candidacy is doomed from the start: the widely held view that the Romneys of this world live by different rules from the rest of us.)

In any case, Doherty’s own views, rather than those of the Rand Paul circle, come across loud and clear when he writes:

“On the one hand, Ron Paul’s refusal to run as the candidate of a third party shows that he sees his cause’s fate linked with the future of the Republican Party. On the other, his refusal to endorse Romney shows that if they want to help shape that party in a more libertarian direction, he and his supporters can’t just go along to get along.”

In endorsing Romney, who has learned nothing from a decade of futile and draining wars, the younger Paul is going along, but one wonders how far along it will get him. By tying himself to a loser like Romney, the ambitious Rand is likely to cut himself off from the very elements he’s seeking to appeal to — who were never that enthralled with Romney to begin with, and still aren’t.

In the meantime, Sen. Paul is alienating his national base — and, worse, splitting and disorienting the movement his father built. It is an absolute disgrace, and one that will not go unchallenged. If the good Senator thinks blood is thicker than ideology in libertarian circles, he is very much mistaken. In a movement devoted to individual liberty, the idea of a hereditary leadership seems more than a bit odd: by endorsing Romney, he has forfeited his claim to lead what he calls the “liberty movement.” He has, in short, become just another Republican Senator, albeit one with a particularly lean and hungry look.

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#1. To: Ada (#0) (Edited)

Paul claims he had a personal meeting with Romney and that he was reassured that President Romney would conduct American foreign policy in a “mature” manner — whatever that is supposed to mean.

It means - support for the zionazis in Israel and more dead American kids.

Bar Mitzvahs for everyone -

The FED has become public enemy #1 and voting for one of its whores is tantamount to choosing between the clap and herpes.

Until Americans refuse to accept this bullshit every election cycle (and quit voting for more of it) - they will continue to appear as stupid as Hollyweird portrays them.

Rand Paul and the Talk Radio Republicans = Pied Piper and the little rats.

"The few who understand the [FEDERAL RESERVE] system will either be so interested in its profits or be so dependent upon its favours that there will be no opposition from that class, while on the other hand, the great body of people, mentally incapable of comprehending the tremendous advantage that capital derives from the system, will bear its burdens without complaint, and perhaps without even suspecting that the system is inimical to their interests."

The Rothschild brothers of London writing to associates in New York, 1863.

noone222  posted on  2012-06-22   7:00:23 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#2. To: Ada, 4 (#0)

“Senator Paul knows he needs to reach beyond his father’s 10-15 percent base in the primaries to more mainstream, red-state, talk-radio Republicans..."

It had to go further down-hill from there.

Break the Conventions - Keep the Commandments - G.K.Chesterson

Lod  posted on  2012-06-22   7:38:06 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#3. To: Ada, Christine, Jethro Tull, Phant2000, (#0)

If the good Senator thinks blood is thicker than ideology in libertarian circles, he is very much mistaken. In a movement devoted to individual liberty, the idea of a hereditary leadership seems more than a bit odd: by endorsing Romney, he has forfeited his claim to lead what he calls the “liberty movement.” He has, in short, become just another Republican Senator, albeit one with a particularly lean and hungry look.

Gross error in leaving out Ron Paul as being part and parcel of this whole shameful affair.

Recall Ron has REMINDED US ALL, TIME AND TIME AGAIN, "I AM A REPUBLICAN FOR LIFE".

Anyone that read and digested the Trotski memo should have no doubt about the Pauls and their political movement.

Cynicom  posted on  2012-06-22   7:57:57 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#4. To: Ada (#0)

In endorsing Romney, who has learned nothing from a decade of futile and draining wars, the younger Paul is going along, but one wonders how far along it will get him. By tying himself to a loser like Romney, the ambitious Rand is likely to cut himself off from the very elements he’s seeking to appeal to — who were never that enthralled with Romney to begin with, and still aren’t.

In the meantime, Sen. Paul is alienating his national base — and, worse, splitting and disorienting the movement his father built. It is an absolute disgrace, and one that will not go unchallenged. If the good Senator thinks blood is thicker than ideology in libertarian circles, he is very much mistaken. In a movement devoted to individual liberty, the idea of a hereditary leadership seems more than a bit odd: by endorsing Romney, he has forfeited his claim to lead what he calls the “liberty movement.” He has, in short, become just another Republican Senator, albeit one with a particularly lean and hungry look.

My thoughts exactly.

Jethro Tull  posted on  2012-06-22   8:01:55 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#5. To: Jethro Tull (#4)

, he has forfeited his claim to lead what he calls the “liberty movement.”

Indeed.

If Ron is above all of this, how come Rand has access to Rons money collecting system????

Blood is thicker than water and people need to recognize it.

Cynicom  posted on  2012-06-22   8:04:59 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#6. To: Ada (#0)

deleted

The relationship between morality and liberty is a directly proportional one.

"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”

—Samuel Adams

America: Israel's Handmaiden

Eric Stratton  posted on  2012-06-22   8:06:08 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#7. To: noone222 (#1)

deleted

The relationship between morality and liberty is a directly proportional one.

"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”

—Samuel Adams

America: Israel's Handmaiden

Eric Stratton  posted on  2012-06-22   8:07:59 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#8. To: Jethro Tull, noone222 (#4)

deleted

The relationship between morality and liberty is a directly proportional one.

"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”

—Samuel Adams

America: Israel's Handmaiden

Eric Stratton  posted on  2012-06-22   8:14:42 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#9. To: Cynicom (#5)

When this Rand thing first broke, I posted a vanity article which said that you had the Paul thing right all along. I think very few disagree with your take on Rand having access to Ron's money list.

Jethro Tull  posted on  2012-06-22   8:20:51 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#10. To: Eric Stratton, 4um (#8)

So few, so few, of those bitching and claiming to get it have done what they can to mitigate their "footprint" in perpetuating it all!

Here's my best hunch as to why this is. Taking as an example social security, to ask someone who has "contributed" into it all of their working lives, and then when their clock hits 62, to ask them not to begin taking back what they've put in, is going to get you a giant WTF 99.9% of the time. Especially given that any wet back who crawls across the border, broke and hungry, will gladly avail themselves to Medicaid, etc. in a nanosecond. I have always thought the way to stall and crash the system is to overload it. If anyone is remotely "entitled" to government largess, I say grab it with both hands, knowing full well that you are doing your best to help bleed out the beast.

Jethro Tull  posted on  2012-06-22   8:33:56 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#11. To: Jethro Tull (#9)

When this Rand thing first broke, I posted a vanity article which said that you had the Paul thing right all along. I think very few disagree with your take on Rand having access to Ron's money list.

And I replied you were the only one with the personal integrity to admit that what we all saw was not true.

I would add this also Jethro...

Beyond integrity, involvement in politics REQUIRES a willingness to have an open mind, which you have. Blind following of any other human being is dangerous.

Many of us made a mistake back in 2008. Ron Paul even warned us he was a REPUBLICAN til he dies. I dont know what more anyone would want, take the man at his word.

Ron did not run third party then nor now BECAUSE HE IS PART AND PARCEL OF THE REPUBLICAN SYSTEM, as is his son.

Cynicom  posted on  2012-06-22   8:42:07 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#12. To: Cynicom (#11)

Ron did not run third party then nor now BECAUSE HE IS PART AND PARCEL OF THE REPUBLICAN SYSTEM, as is his son.

Agree.

Jethro Tull  posted on  2012-06-22   8:48:05 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#13. To: Jethro Tull (#10)

deleted

The relationship between morality and liberty is a directly proportional one.

"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”

—Samuel Adams

America: Israel's Handmaiden

Eric Stratton  posted on  2012-06-22   9:00:13 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#14. To: Jethro Tull, Phant2000, Christine, Rubes (#12)

One thing Ross Perot proved, given a choice to repudiate the "system", Americans by the millions did so and would do it again.

Twenty million "AMERICANS" strong voted for us to be rid of this corrupt government.

The power people realized that this must not be allowed to happen again, I would say they have succeeded.

We have no choice.

Proof????

In our lifetime we have had Father and Son become president, and it looks like another son will join soon.

Happenstance???? Or control of the system????? We all know the answer.

Cynicom  posted on  2012-06-22   9:00:24 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#15. To: Eric Stratton (#13)

Just wait 'til euthanasia becomes just as popular as abortion, and here's the funny part, citing the exact same reasons for it. Count on it.

Well stated, and I couldn't agree more with the above. This blipped up on to my radar a few years back. Just google "end of life medical costs" and take a gander at the propAgenda coming at us.

Jethro Tull  posted on  2012-06-22   9:17:18 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#16. To: Cynicom (#14) (Edited)

The system has inoculated itself from the Perot threat. Something called the "Presidential Debate Commission" (I think that's the name) now has the power to limit the final debates to candidates who poll at 15% or higher. As we know it was during the national debates where Perot made the other two clones look like goofs. Trust me, that 15% national approval rate will never be reached again.

EDIT: The 15% will never be reached by a 3rd party candidate, thus ensuring that the national debate stage is occupied by one R and one D, alone.

Jethro Tull  posted on  2012-06-22   9:22:32 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#17. To: Cynicom, Jethro Tull, All (#11)

deleted

The relationship between morality and liberty is a directly proportional one.

"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”

—Samuel Adams

America: Israel's Handmaiden

Eric Stratton  posted on  2012-06-22   9:28:59 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#18. To: Jethro Tull (#15)

deleted

The relationship between morality and liberty is a directly proportional one.

"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”

—Samuel Adams

America: Israel's Handmaiden

Eric Stratton  posted on  2012-06-22   9:58:39 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#19. To: Jethro Tull, Cynicom (#16)

deleted

The relationship between morality and liberty is a directly proportional one.

"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”

—Samuel Adams

America: Israel's Handmaiden

Eric Stratton  posted on  2012-06-22   10:12:25 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#20. To: Eric Stratton, Jethro Tull (#17)

No one is on my ignore list.

I read everyone, bozo no one.

I read yours because you have a brain and use it. Agree most of the time. However, I dislike confrontational postings, except from Jethro, and we understand each other.

May I say this, WE ARE ALL IN THE SAME BOAT, CALLED THE TITANIC, so it is in our interest to stop bashing each other over nothing and vent our spleens where it belongs, against the the system/this corrupt government.

Cynicom  posted on  2012-06-22   10:19:38 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#21. To: Cynicom, Eric Stratton, 4 (#20)

May I say this, WE ARE ALL IN THE SAME BOAT, CALLED THE TITANIC, so it is in our interest to stop bashing each other over nothing and vent our spleens where it belongs, against the the system/this corrupt government.

We can all get behind this. The ship is sinking fast and we are without leaders.

Jethro Tull  posted on  2012-06-22   10:29:09 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#22. To: Eric Stratton, 4 (#19)

Didn't know that. Still, RP should have been included as he was polling at least at 15% back then, at least according to honest polls.

RP would have been allowed to debate as long as he remained an R and continued to poll @15%. What the PDC is positioned to do is to eliminate any 3rd Party threat from appearing on a national stage, a la Perot. I'd bet the ranch that any future 3rd Party candidate will conveniently poll just slightly below their threshold.

Jethro Tull  posted on  2012-06-22   10:34:27 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#23. To: Eric Stratton, Cynicom, 4 (#19)

hpr1.com/opinion/article/...es_third_parties_silenced

Info on the debate commission.

Jethro Tull  posted on  2012-06-22   10:37:49 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#24. To: Cynicom, Jethro Tull (#20)

deleted

The relationship between morality and liberty is a directly proportional one.

"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”

—Samuel Adams

America: Israel's Handmaiden

Eric Stratton  posted on  2012-06-22   11:14:41 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#25. To: Jethro Tull (#21)

deleted

The relationship between morality and liberty is a directly proportional one.

"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”

—Samuel Adams

America: Israel's Handmaiden

Eric Stratton  posted on  2012-06-22   11:17:21 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#26. To: Jethro Tull (#22)

deleted

The relationship between morality and liberty is a directly proportional one.

"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”

—Samuel Adams

America: Israel's Handmaiden

Eric Stratton  posted on  2012-06-22   11:22:04 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#27. To: Jethro Tull (#23)

deleted

The relationship between morality and liberty is a directly proportional one.

"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”

—Samuel Adams

America: Israel's Handmaiden

Eric Stratton  posted on  2012-06-22   11:24:16 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#28. To: Eric Stratton (#26)

Again tho, either way, this discussion as to whether he should have run 3PC, GOP, etc. is irrelevant. He wasn't going to win, nor would he be able to achieve much if in fact he wouldn't have been JFK'd in his first year in office.

This is the key, and this is where I was in '08 and where I should have remained this go around. I'm proof positive that having political hope in the current system isn't reserved for the young and naive :)

Jethro Tull  posted on  2012-06-22   11:36:21 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#29. To: Jethro Tull (#28)

I'm proof positive that having political hope in the current system isn't reserved for the young and naive :)

It is for the olde and stupid also.

You were never in the military, there was an olde saying they had for new recruits, simple and well understood.

Drill idiots would scream in your face, " Tell your parents to sell the ----house because your ass is mine".

It was plain and simple, no translation needed and I mite say it was very effective.

Cynicom  posted on  2012-06-22   11:45:53 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#30. To: Jethro Tull (#28)

deleted

The relationship between morality and liberty is a directly proportional one.

"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”

—Samuel Adams

America: Israel's Handmaiden

Eric Stratton  posted on  2012-06-22   13:10:01 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#31. To: Eric Stratton (#8)

We don't have choices about everything, but we have choices about a good many things, and yet people aren't making them, making them hypocrites.

Hypocrisy (hypocrites) being the operative word.

"The few who understand the [FEDERAL RESERVE] system will either be so interested in its profits or be so dependent upon its favours that there will be no opposition from that class, while on the other hand, the great body of people, mentally incapable of comprehending the tremendous advantage that capital derives from the system, will bear its burdens without complaint, and perhaps without even suspecting that the system is inimical to their interests."

The Rothschild brothers of London writing to associates in New York, 1863.

noone222  posted on  2012-06-22   13:31:35 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#32. To: noone222 (#31)

deleted

The relationship between morality and liberty is a directly proportional one.

"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”

—Samuel Adams

America: Israel's Handmaiden

Eric Stratton  posted on  2012-06-22   13:45:56 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#33. To: Ada, All (#0)

As for this business about being considered a “traitor”: George Romney never endorsed Barry Goldwater. Indeed, he spent a good deal of his energy branding the party’s 1964 nominee a reckless extremist. He went on to run for president in 1968, and, far from being considered a “traitor,” went on to serve in the Nixon administration as HUD Secretary. George H. W. Bush’s Points of Light Foundation conferred on the elder Romney its Lifetime Achievement Award. You can’t get much more Republican than that.

If there is some rule that all Republican officeholders must formally endorse and campaign for the national nominee, then it apparently doesn’t apply to the Romneys.

Many politicians don't endorse the Presidential nominee of their party or any other candidates. Ron Paul supports Liberty candidates and has endorsed many Republicans. I don't know the exact number who went on to win their elections but some have. Likely he supported Rand too in his sucessful run for the Senate. Many Republicans -- even among Tea Partiers -- are not Liberty minded, especially the Neocon variety, and wouldn't appreciate being associated with Ron Paul's endorsement anyway. It's not Ron Paul's fault that the GOP nominees for President have been far from Liberty minded and far afield of the Constitution.

In the Reality Check interview with Ben Swann below, Rand tries to claim that, unlike other politicians who don't endorse their party's nominees, his dad's non-endorsements (nevermind all those he has endorsed) are why he felt he had to pledge long ago when he ran for office (so as to be a Republican "in good standing"), that he would support the nominee of that Kentucky race and promised to do so for the Presidential race too, whoever they were -- i.e. however detrimental for Liberty and the Constitution or not. I had to ask in my comment there if that isn't like voting for unread bills? He inexplicably says, too, that if people who believe in the Liberty message don't get a seat at the table, we're blamed for everything. Someone asked how we can be blamed for everything if we don't have a seat at the table. Good question but haven't seen an answer to that yet.

Rand Paul and Why He Endorsed Mitt Romney For President

Published on Jun 14, 2012 by BenSwannRealityCheck

Ben Swann Reality Check talks one on one with Senator Rand Paul about his endorsement of Mitt Romney for President

-------

"They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC

GreyLmist  posted on  2012-06-23   6:15:13 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


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