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Title: Freeh Group Member Criticizes NCAA's Use of Investigative Report
Source: [None]
URL Source: https://chronicle.com/article/Freeh-Group-Member-Criticizes/133213/
Published: Jul 28, 2012
Author: Brad Wolverton
Post Date: 2012-07-28 10:48:22 by Jethro Tull
Keywords: None
Views: 1941
Comments: 93

A member of the team that produced a 267-page report condemning the response of Pennsylvania State University's leaders to a serial child molester believes that the NCAA's use of that document was insufficient to justify the punishment it handed the university this week.

"That document was not meant to be used as the sole piece, or the large piece, of the NCAA's decision making," a source familiar with the investigation told The Chronicle on Thursday. "It was meant to be a mechanism to help Penn State move forward. To be used otherwise creates an obstacle to the institution changing."

Penn State's Board of Trustees commissioned Louis J. Freeh, a former FBI director, to investigate how the university had handled the case of Jerry Sandusky, the assistant football coach who was convicted last month of 45 counts of molesting children.

Mr. Freeh's team of investigators released their report this month. It described how a reverence for football had led four top officials­—including Graham B. Spanier, the university's president at the time, and Joe Paterno, the longtime coach, who died in January—to cover up repeated allegations of child sexual abuse by Mr. Sandusky.

A confidentiality agreement forbids members of Mr. Freeh's group to speak publicly about the investigation. Late Friday, a spokesperson for the group released the following statement: "The Freeh Group emphatically stated that no member of its investigative team spoke to The Chronicle of Higher Education for its story. The Freeh Group has no comment on the NCAA's use of the report."

Mark Emmert, the NCAA's president, repeatedly referred to the Freeh document during his news conference on Monday announcing the penalties, which included a $60-million fine, a four-year ban on bowl-game participation, and significant reductions in scholarships.

The report, Mr. Emmert said, was "vastly more involved and thorough than any investigation we've ever conducted." It included interviews with more than 400 people and a review of some three million documents. Given Penn State's acceptance of the findings, Mr. Emmert and other NCAA leaders set aside a possible investigation of their own and, in less than 10 days, decided on Penn State's punishment.

But allowing the Freeh report to form the basis for such a heavy penalty was not enough, said the person close to Mr. Freeh's group. "The Freeh team reviewed how Penn State operated, not how they worked within the NCAA's system," this person said. "The NCAA's job is to investigate whether Penn State broke its rules and whether it gained a competitive advantage in doing so."

The NCAA's decision, this person said, could have a lasting negative impact on the university—and not just in football.

"In using this report largely as the basis for their decision, the NCAA could hurt Penn State's enrollment, recruiting, and outside relationships and partnerships," the source said. "If you don't attract good faculty and research dollars, your institution has no stature."

'Nothing Is Black and White'

Last November, Mr. Emmert posed a series of questions in a letter to Rodney A. Erickson, Penn State's interim president, signaling what looked like a separate inquiry into the university.

"That letter leads any reasonable person to think that the NCAA was starting their own investigation," said the person with knowledge of Mr. Freeh's team. "If the NCAA wasn't going to investigate, they would have said, 'This is a law-enforcement matter.'"

Throughout the eight-month inquiry, NCAA leaders received regular updates about the Freeh investigators' findings. That should have clarified the "narrow focus" of the Freeh group's work, the source said, which was to provide the facts about Penn State's leaders, giving a sense of how decisions were made and how the university was governed.

The report painted a damning picture of four top administrators: Mr. Spanier; Mr. Paterno; Gary C. Schultz, a former senior vice president; and Timothy M. Curley, the athletic director, on administrative leave.

Mr. Spanier was the only one among them to be interviewed by the Freeh investigators, and that was just days before the report was released. (Mr. Curley and Mr. Schultz, facing charges of perjury and failing to report child abuse, did not answer questions for the report.)

Because of those and other limitations, some of the Freeh team's findings were circumstantial. "The report is critical, but nothing is black and white," The Chronicle's source said. "No investigation can totally answer all the questions everyone has."

The Freeh report also could have explored more about the various coaches who knew about Mr. Sandusky's showering with boys—an area in which the NCAA obviously should have followed up, said the person close to the Freeh investigation.

"The NCAA took this report and ran with it without further exploration," this person said. "If you really wanted to show there was a nexus to cover up, interview the coaches. See their knowledge and culpability and how far this went."

The NCAA's approach is not sitting well with the source close to Mr. Freeh's staff.

"The sanctions against Penn State were really overwhelming, and no one imagined the report being used to do that," this person said. "People thought it would help others draw conclusions about what happened and provide a guide for leaders to be able to identify minefields and navigate through them.

"Instead, Emmert took the report and used Penn State's own resources to do them in," the person said. "The institution is made of people, too. And they don't deserve this."


Poster Comment:

Please file this under "no shit."

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#1. To: Jethro Tull (#0)

"The sanctions against Penn State were really overwhelming, and no one imagined the report being used to do that," this person said. "People thought it would help others draw conclusions about what happened and provide a guide for leaders to be able to identify minefields and navigate through them.

I thot them rather "underwhelming".

The "academic" door needs to be kicked open and watch the rats run.

Olde Joe cheated the hangman, the yellow eyed rats that run the place are still there.

Cynicom  posted on  2012-07-28   10:56:18 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#2. To: Cynicom (#1)

Sorry, I can't decipher code.

Jethro Tull  posted on  2012-07-28   11:03:37 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#3. To: Jethro Tull (#0) (Edited)

"In using this report largely as the basis for their decision, the NCAA could hurt Penn State's enrollment, recruiting, and outside relationships and partnerships," the source said. "If you don't attract good faculty and research dollars, your institution has no stature."

EXACTLY and

"The NCAA's job is to investigate whether Penn State broke its rules and whether it gained a competitive advantage in doing so."

I can't see how this could have given the football team a competitive edge. IMO, this was/is a law enforcement issue beginning from the governor's office on down to the PSU staff DIRECTLY involved. And then, insults of insults, that pervert Spanier being given a government secret job.

christine  posted on  2012-07-28   11:13:46 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#4. To: Jethro Tull (#2)

Sorry, I can't decipher code.

Academia needs to clean its own house.

Penn state, as all others, were created for advanced learning, not for professional sports.

Sports need to be placed in their place, for example, Penn State is known nationwide as a powerhouse football team, NOT AS A BASTION OF ACADEMIC LEARNING.

In the past the "academic institution" allowed itself to be used to further the football program. Athletes were run thru a shameful regimen of basket weaving courses to keep them eligible.

It is a money maker and the the professional staff of academics prostitute themselves and pay lip service to "higher education".

Cynicom  posted on  2012-07-28   11:29:45 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#5. To: christine (#3)

I can't see how this could have given the football team a competitive edge. IMO, this was/is a law enforcement issue beginning from the governor's office on down to the PSU staff DIRECTLY involved. And then, insults of insults, that pervert Spanier being given a government secret job.

You're right, Christine. Spanier is a scumbag and needs to be outed. ;)

"When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall, one by one." Edmund Burke

BTP Holdings  posted on  2012-07-28   11:46:03 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#6. To: Jethro Tull (#0)

deleted

The relationship between morality and liberty is a directly proportional one.

America: Israel's Handmaiden

Eric Stratton  posted on  2012-07-28   11:47:35 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#7. To: Cynicom (#4)

deleted

The relationship between morality and liberty is a directly proportional one.

America: Israel's Handmaiden

Eric Stratton  posted on  2012-07-28   11:50:09 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#8. To: Jethro Tull (#0)

deleted

The relationship between morality and liberty is a directly proportional one.

America: Israel's Handmaiden

Eric Stratton  posted on  2012-07-28   11:51:02 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#9. To: Cynicom (#4) (Edited)

In the past the "academic institution" allowed itself to be used to further the football program. Athletes were run thru a shameful regimen of basket weaving courses to keep them eligible.

I remember when Northwestern beat Penn State and went to the Rose Bowl. Northwestern's quarterback choked, and they lost big time to USC.

BTW, I was working security at that football game in Dyche Stadium. We knew they had beer, but we didn't want to see it. One guy pulled out a beer and chugged it right where I could see him do it. I walked up to him and said, "Let's have it." He didn't move, so I grabbed from his hand and dumped it. I told him, "Be mindful of the meaning of the word, "discetion", be discreet." ;)

"When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall, one by one." Edmund Burke

BTP Holdings  posted on  2012-07-28   11:51:34 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#10. To: All (#0)

deleted

The relationship between morality and liberty is a directly proportional one.

America: Israel's Handmaiden

Eric Stratton  posted on  2012-07-28   12:02:06 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#11. To: BTP Holdings (#5)

deleted

The relationship between morality and liberty is a directly proportional one.

America: Israel's Handmaiden

Eric Stratton  posted on  2012-07-28   12:03:43 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#12. To: Eric Stratton (#11) (Edited)

IMO if it doesn't, then it presents a green light to other places where this is currently happening, and make no mistake, it is currently happening elsewhere.

It's happening alright, but where and to what magnitude?

"When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall, one by one." Edmund Burke

BTP Holdings  posted on  2012-07-28   12:05:31 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#13. To: BTP Holdings (#9)

deleted

The relationship between morality and liberty is a directly proportional one.

America: Israel's Handmaiden

Eric Stratton  posted on  2012-07-28   12:05:34 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#14. To: Eric Stratton (#13) (Edited)

I used to go into Bills games w/ my winter coat slung over my shoulder w/ the sleeves filled with cans of beer. I'd put a couple in my pockets to give them something to pick.

Reminds me of the time I was working security at a bar near home and caught a guy reaching over the bar and stealing beer. I went over and took the beer from him and his friend and put it on the bar. Then, I grabbed the guy sitting in the chair and moved him 5 or 6 feet before his feet hit the ground. They caught his friend with a beer stuck in his coat sleeve on the way out.

"When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall, one by one." Edmund Burke

BTP Holdings  posted on  2012-07-28   12:08:47 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#15. To: christine, 4um (#3)

I can't see how this could have given the football team a competitive edge.

I think I could make a reasonable argument that having an 80 y/o head football coach put these kids at a competitive DISADVANTAGE.

Jethro Tull  posted on  2012-07-28   12:10:02 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#16. To: Eric Stratton (#10)

Oh, so there were more coaches involved?

Really?

Which ones?

Oh, I get it now.

The person who is leaking the info is claiming the Freeh report is incomplete.

Got it.

But you knew this. I suspect your puffed up, self defined "morality" must have taken a powder as you read this article :)

Jethro Tull  posted on  2012-07-28   12:16:16 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#17. To: BTP Holdings (#12) (Edited)

deleted

The relationship between morality and liberty is a directly proportional one.

America: Israel's Handmaiden

Eric Stratton  posted on  2012-07-28   12:20:15 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#18. To: christine, Jethro Tull, All (#3)

deleted

The relationship between morality and liberty is a directly proportional one.

America: Israel's Handmaiden

Eric Stratton  posted on  2012-07-28   12:23:05 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#19. To: Eric Stratton (#17)

Who knows, can we know? You and I cannot.

Of course we don't know, but why would you then frame a question: Oh, so there were more coaches involved?

And again, given your strong negative opinions about PSU, why would you have tried desperately to enter this market with your chicken wing sauce, using my free time, gas and labor?

Jethro Tull  posted on  2012-07-28   12:26:23 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#20. To: Eric Stratton (#18)

You wanting a direct answer is like asking Obama where he was born.

Go back and form a coherent question :P

Jethro Tull  posted on  2012-07-28   12:28:31 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#21. To: Jethro Tull (#19)

deleted

The relationship between morality and liberty is a directly proportional one.

America: Israel's Handmaiden

Eric Stratton  posted on  2012-07-28   12:39:59 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#22. To: christine (#3)

When you have the university and Mike McQueary sending letters to recruits bragging about never being sanctioned by the ncaa and crowing about winning with honor, when all along they knowingly harbored a baby raping monster, I'd say that was a recruiting advantage. They were protecting ths football program. Look what happened to their recruiting once this story broke.

Obnoxicated  posted on  2012-07-28   12:44:22 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#23. To: Jethro Tull (#15)

I think I could make a reasonable argument that having an 80 y/o head football coach put these kids at a competitive DISADVANTAGE.

Hey, watch it.

Cynicom  posted on  2012-07-28   12:45:40 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#24. To: Eric Stratton (#6)

What're you, nigerian? :)

Obnoxicated  posted on  2012-07-28   12:47:23 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#25. To: Obnoxicated (#24)

deleted

The relationship between morality and liberty is a directly proportional one.

America: Israel's Handmaiden

Eric Stratton  posted on  2012-07-28   12:48:30 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#26. To: Obnoxicated (#22)

deleted

The relationship between morality and liberty is a directly proportional one.

America: Israel's Handmaiden

Eric Stratton  posted on  2012-07-28   12:53:22 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#27. To: Eric Stratton (#21)

The piece implied that there were.

The article implied that the Freeh report was incomplete.

Now scat, and go sell some chicken sauce.

Jethro Tull  posted on  2012-07-28   13:25:18 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#28. To: Eric Stratton (#26)

I have no sympathy for psu fans. I went to a game in Happy Valley in '05. Their student section bombed our school's band (osu) with urine filled balloons. Needless to say, our band will never return to their stadium again.

Obnoxicated  posted on  2012-07-28   13:32:14 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#29. To: Obnoxicated (#28)

deleted

The relationship between morality and liberty is a directly proportional one.

America: Israel's Handmaiden

Eric Stratton  posted on  2012-07-28   13:37:56 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#30. To: Eric Stratton (#29)

I'm at a point where I recognize that sports need to be seriously toned down in this country, and if it means dusting a few programs along the way to send the appropriate message, then so be it, despite which ones they are as long as they've behaved inappropriately in that way.

Sports is a pleasant diversion from politics and authoritarian a'holes with a religious bent. Going back to a post you made yesterday, a Sunday afternoon spent in a sports bar, IMO, is far more therapeutic than cracking open some fable based on the live of a Jew. Hell, the Superbowl win by the 1968 J-E-T-S is more memorable to me than all the gospels I've ever heard. I bet I'm not alone......

Jethro Tull  posted on  2012-07-28   13:51:20 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#31. To: Jethro Tull (#30) (Edited)

deleted

The relationship between morality and liberty is a directly proportional one.

America: Israel's Handmaiden

Eric Stratton  posted on  2012-07-28   14:09:11 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#32. To: Eric Stratton, 4 (#31)

Commercials have become increasingly designed for idiots.

Amen! to that.

Even watching HGTV with Mrs.L, I often ask what in the world are we supposed to be buying now?

Completely inane messages.

I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them ~ Thomas Jefferson

Lod  posted on  2012-07-28   14:18:19 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#33. To: Jethro Tull (#27)

The article implied that the Freeh report was incomplete.

Well I guess it was. I read the Freeh report and missed any reference to "chicken sauce", or what was done with it. Sounds kinky.

“Anti-semitism is a disease–you catch it from Jews”–Edgar J. Steele

“The jew cries out in pain, as he strikes you.”–Polish proverb

“I would like to express my heartfelt apologies for the unfortunate and tasteless quotes I published in my tag lines. I am very sorry and ashamed. I never wanted to offend anyone, or to encroach human rights."- Hmmmmm

Hmmmmm  posted on  2012-07-28   18:17:28 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#34. To: Eric Stratton (#18)

I'm not talking about the story not having broken. Of course, that would have a negative impact. I'm talking about the using of boys by Sandusky and the Second Mile Organization as well as the pols and whoever else was/is in the pedophile network. How could that have been an edge as far as recruiting?

christine  posted on  2012-07-28   18:29:24 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#35. To: Cynicom (#4)

Sports need to be placed in their place, for example, Penn State is known nationwide as a powerhouse football team, NOT AS A BASTION OF ACADEMIC LEARNING.

why can't a university be known for both? my understanding is that at most universities, the athletes must maintain a certain grade point average in order to remain on the teams.

what is wrong with sports? damn, we're having the Olympics right now. for the most part, they are a healthy, wholesome activity.

you know, as well as i do, there isn't one aspect of life or one industry that will not have exploitation or abuse of some form or another. they are comprised of human beings afterall. for the most part, there is more benefit for building character and physicality than there is negative. IMHO, of course.

christine  posted on  2012-07-28   18:37:46 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#36. To: christine (#35) (Edited)

Christine...

When you have time check the definition of ...kynodesme...

The original Olympics were all nude and greatly populated by people of "varying" sexual mores.

Cynicom  posted on  2012-07-28   18:45:22 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#37. To: christine, All (#34)

deleted

The relationship between morality and liberty is a directly proportional one.

America: Israel's Handmaiden

Eric Stratton  posted on  2012-07-28   18:51:04 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#38. To: Eric Stratton (#37)

we're not communicating about the same thing. we're talking past each other.

christine  posted on  2012-07-28   18:52:53 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#39. To: christine (#38) (Edited)

deleted

The relationship between morality and liberty is a directly proportional one.

America: Israel's Handmaiden

Eric Stratton  posted on  2012-07-28   18:57:42 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#40. To: christine (#38)

deleted

The relationship between morality and liberty is a directly proportional one.

America: Israel's Handmaiden

Eric Stratton  posted on  2012-07-28   18:58:37 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#41. To: Cynicom (#36)

is your point, then, that there should be no Olympics because there has been perversion by some centuries ago? that makes no sense to me. i guess i shouldn't be involved in competitive dance because i'm certain the same could be said of it.

christine  posted on  2012-07-28   19:07:25 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#42. To: Eric Stratton (#39)

again, you're twisting what i've said. of course, i know that the coverup was wrong. that's not what i'm talking about. what i'm trying to say is that while it was going on, the people who benefited (for lack of a better word) from it were those who were directly involved in the sexual abuse. i maintain that it did not directly benefit the recruiting of the athletes or give PSU an edge in doing so.

the point i'm trying to make is that i believe this whole affair is a law enforcement issue especially because we know that it involved a network that began at the very top of the state's government.

is that any clearer? if not. i give up.

christine  posted on  2012-07-28   19:15:37 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#43. To: Eric Stratton, Cynicom (#39)

No, I don't think so. I think that your bias (and JT's) in favor of PSU/State College is so great that you cannot see how this was deliberately covered up to protect the football program, at least initially.

It was covered up to protect criminals *and* to keep the honeypot of the 2nd Mile dollars flowing up to the level of the governor and less politicians. The very LEAST culpable actors in this cluster are the player who knew nothing and us townies who had zero ability to penetrate the Ivory walls of academia.

Jethro Tull  posted on  2012-07-28   19:51:05 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#44. To: Jethro Tull, Eric Stratton (#43) (Edited)

It was covered up to protect criminals *and* to keep the honeypot of the 2nd Mile dollars flowing up to the level of the governor and less politicians. The very LEAST culpable actors in this cluster are the player who knew nothing and us townies who had zero ability to penetrate the Ivory walls of academia.

EXACTLY

and, btw, my bias isn't because it's Penn State. i plug in the University of Texas @Austin in this scenario and i would not blame the entire community or entire football program. i think i have a fair sense of whose feet the guilt should be placed.

christine  posted on  2012-07-28   20:11:37 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#45. To: christine (#44)

deleted

The relationship between morality and liberty is a directly proportional one.

America: Israel's Handmaiden

Eric Stratton  posted on  2012-07-28   20:21:03 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#46. To: Eric Stratton (#45)

let's forget it. i have no idea what you meant by that last comment and you are so not addressing my specific points and you are obviously misunderstanding my opinions on this matter. discussing it any further is futile.

christine  posted on  2012-07-28   20:35:29 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#47. To: christine (#46)

deleted

The relationship between morality and liberty is a directly proportional one.

America: Israel's Handmaiden

Eric Stratton  posted on  2012-07-28   20:49:10 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#48. To: Jethro Tull (#43)

It was covered up to protect criminals *and* to keep the honeypot of the 2nd Mile dollars flowing up to the level of the governor and less politicians.

So how pray tell, can Tom Ridge be on the short list to replace the guy that got promoted out of the presidency.

“Anti-semitism is a disease–you catch it from Jews”–Edgar J. Steele

“The jew cries out in pain, as he strikes you.”–Polish proverb

“I would like to express my heartfelt apologies for the unfortunate and tasteless quotes I published in my tag lines. I am very sorry and ashamed. I never wanted to offend anyone, or to encroach human rights."- Hmmmmm

Hmmmmm  posted on  2012-07-28   20:49:57 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#49. To: Hmmmmm (#48)

hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm....................

just a wild hunch here, but I suspect Ridge is a cock sucker.

Jethro Tull  posted on  2012-07-28   20:56:53 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#50. To: Eric Stratton (#47)

Jethro Tull  posted on  2012-07-28   20:59:40 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#51. To: Eric Stratton (#47)

You can see the penalties for yourself. Bush left USC following the '05 season, sanctions happened nearly half a decade later.

If you do not understand how most of these collegiate penalties work, then that explains some, but you should find out before taking such hardcore positions.

It's a known fact and point of contention between varying groups that these penalties/sanctions usually do not affect the players involved the most. In fact, it's almost always that those besides them pay the biggest price(s).

Same for SMU, most of the students involved were long gone or on the cusp of leaving when that happened. Yet, the "death penalty."

That's just the way it works in college sports because of the nature of it all.

So the status of your complaint then is to get in the long line of people griping about the same thing for decades.

ok. that i agree with. HOWEVER, my point is that this is not the same. this is a statewide criminal network that did not, in my opinion, benefit the football program in terms of recruitment. the coverup protected it. that's the distinction i have been trying to make.

christine  posted on  2012-07-28   21:05:00 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#52. To: christine (#51)

Anyone with a lick of common football sense should recognize that having an 80 y/o old H/C was the furthest thing from competitive advantage that a program could reach. Paterno held PSU hostage, IMO, for reasons as yet unknown.

Jethro Tull  posted on  2012-07-28   21:26:17 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#53. To: christine, 4 (#51)

All the NCAA sanctions mentioned, save PSU, have been lawful acts.

They were however, violations of the NCAA's regulations that member schools voluntarily agree to abide by.

Certain faculty and staff of PSU clearly broke both state and federal statutes; and Freeh was hired to contain and limit the damage to known, and to as yet unknown individuals.

The sanctions against PSU are extra-legal and unenforceable should PSU chose to tell them to pound sand.

I hope that this action against PSU sounds the death-knell of the NCAA.

I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them ~ Thomas Jefferson

Lod  posted on  2012-07-28   21:33:10 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#54. To: christine (#41)

there has been perversion by some centuries ago?

Ago?????

That has never changed, people with different sexual persuasions have always been attracted to "sports" whether amateur or professional.

Thus Sandusky and his ilk. That is why there are more bad people than Sandusky present at Penn State or any other U.

Combine flesh, money and power and you have a bad situation. Penn State had all of them.

Cynicom  posted on  2012-07-28   21:46:34 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#55. To: christine, Eric Stratton, Jethro Tull (#42)

i maintain that it did not directly benefit the recruiting of the athletes or give PSU an edge in doing so.

I must respectfully disagree. Now, had this been handled immediately and forthrightly it would have created a public black mark and likely have hurt recruiting some unknown, but much smaller than now, amount.

However, I think that all of this stemmed from a crisis of leadership at Penn State. They lacked the courage and integrity to go after the Pedophilia "hammer and tongs". And, as we have both already agreed, a lot of this coverup was to protect the wealthy and influential pedds that were using the Sandusky Dating Service. Given the likely extent of both the abuse and cover-up I think the NCAA rulings were rather mild. It fell short of the "death penalty" of being barred from all play and taking all of their scholarships.

In the end the whole thing is unpleasant, but I would rather err on the side of protecting kids as opposed to protecting the football program.

Perseverent Gardener
"“Believe nothing merely because you have been told it. Do not believe what your teacher tells you merely out of respect for the teacher. But whatsoever, after due examination and analysis, you find to be kind, conducive to the good, the benefit, the welfare of all beings - that doctrine believe and cling to, and take it as your guide.” ~ Gautama Siddhartha — The Buddha

Original_Intent  posted on  2012-07-28   21:55:11 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#56. To: Original_Intent (#55)

In the end the whole thing is unpleasant, but I would rather err on the side of protecting kids as opposed to protecting the football program.

Amen.

Cynicom  posted on  2012-07-28   21:58:45 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#57. To: Cynicom (#54)

A situation is neither good nor evil: only people acting in that situation matter.

Situations, like guns, have only potential, by themselves, they're neutral.

I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them ~ Thomas Jefferson

Lod  posted on  2012-07-28   22:00:09 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#58. To: Lod (#57)

A situation is neither good nor evil: only people acting in that situation matter.

And the people involved in such situations are always the ones in charge.

The little boys were mere social throwaways.

Indicative of our society is the stated truth by the people in charge, "who would believe a kid or a lowly janitor".

No one did, the police, DA and Penn people looked the other way. Disgraceful.

There is NO ONE speaking for the little boys, no one.

Cynicom  posted on  2012-07-28   22:23:57 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#59. To: Cynicom (#58)

Only the law can (after the fact) help the victims, and to date, they've only sent one man out of hundreds, thousands, tens of thousands? to jail.

Many people want this thing to remain in State College, dead and buried there.

The evil living among us is formidable indeed.

I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them ~ Thomas Jefferson

Lod  posted on  2012-07-28   22:44:43 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#60. To: Lod, Jethro Tull, Christine, Eric stratton (#59)

Below may undo Penn State...

" Pennsylvania Manufacturers' Association Insurance argued that..... Penn State withheld key information needed to assess risk.....

"Penn State's general liability insurer sought last week to deny or limit coverage for Sandusky-related claims. Pennsylvania Manufacturers' Association Insurance argued that Penn State withheld key information needed to assess risk.

In a memo filed in court in Philadelphia, the company argued that Penn State failed to disclose that it had information about Sandusky that "was material to the insurable risk assumed by PMA." The company, which has long insured the university, also argued that its policies after March 1, 1992, were amended to exclude "abuse or molestation" and that coverage for such behavior is excluded as a matter of public policy in Pennsylvania".

In short they lied to the insurance carrier.

Cynicom  posted on  2012-07-28   22:51:22 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#61. To: Jethro Tull (#0)

"That document was not meant to be used as the sole piece, or the large piece, of the NCAA's decision making," a source familiar with the investigation told The Chronicle on Thursday. "It was meant to be a mechanism to help Penn State move forward. To be used otherwise creates an obstacle to the institution changing."

Penn State's Board of Trustees commissioned Louis J. Freeh, a former FBI director, to investigate how the university had handled the case of Jerry Sandusky, the assistant football coach who was convicted last month of 45 counts of molesting children.

Mr. Freeh's team of investigators released their report this month. It described how a reverence for football had led four top officials­—including Graham B. Spanier, the university's president at the time, and Joe Paterno, the longtime coach, who died in January—to cover up repeated allegations of child sexual abuse by Mr. Sandusky.

Of course that document was not meant to be used as the sole piece of decision-making in this so-called "investigation". It was meant to be used as to wipe their asses with it. They don't care about those victims at all. They just want to minimize their stench. They just had to hand this over to Louis J. Freeh.

God, I can smell it already! Febreze-air-effects can't do the magic touch on this one.

purplerose  posted on  2012-07-28   23:00:11 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#62. To: purplerose (#61)

Of course that document was not meant to be used as the sole piece of decision-making in this so-called "investigation". It was meant to be used as to wipe their asses with it. They don't care about those victims at all. They just want to minimize their stench. They just had to hand this over to Louis J. Freeh.

God, I can smell it already! Febreze-air-effects can't do the magic touch on this one.

Amen, my rose.

Jethro Tull  posted on  2012-07-28   23:13:33 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#63. To: Jethro Tull (#43) (Edited)

"...The very LEAST culpable actors in this cluster are the player who knew nothing and us townies who had zero ability to penetrate the Ivory walls of academia."

Not to blame the State police alone because there are other elements involved in this corruption. But how is it not possible for State police to not communicate to those faculty and staff on a daily basis of criminal activity having taken place on the campus when they first become aware of it?

Ivory walls should not be the barrier to communications here. It sounds to me like many faculty and staff were well aware of what was going on including members of the State police on the campus. However, it was not that they had zero ability to penetrate but that they chose to feign ignorance. That's the problem.

What's disturbing is that this entire matter is not being reviewed by an outside independent source. This document written by "members of the team" sounds like a joke. Everybody is playing good cop bad cop.

purplerose  posted on  2012-07-28   23:25:56 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#64. To: Lod (#57)

amen, Lod.

christine  posted on  2012-07-28   23:49:57 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#65. To: Jethro Tull (#52)

I think Sandusky was holding JVP hostage. He knows where the bodies are buried. I also believe McQueary took advantage of the situation,too. Seems a lot of people were putting the squeeze on JoePa.

Obnoxicated  posted on  2012-07-29   0:49:03 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#66. To: Cynicom, 4 (#60)

In short they lied to the insurance carrier.

Oopsie.

Best case for PSU, their premium is refunded and coverage denied.

Worst case, coverage denied and they are prosecuted.

Don't jerk around on your insurance apps.

I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them ~ Thomas Jefferson

Lod  posted on  2012-07-29   9:02:35 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#67. To: Lod (#66)

Sir Lod...

I checked with a insurance broker, whatever that is, he said withholding information...ESPECIALLY OF A CRIMINAL NATURE... is a no no.

Penn State is in a rush to sign checks and have the nightmare in Happy valley go away. It just may not be insurance money.

Cynicom  posted on  2012-07-29   9:11:01 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#68. To: purplerose (#63)

Not to blame the State police alone because there are other elements involved in this corruption. But how is it not possible for State police to not communicate to those faculty and staff on a daily basis of criminal activity having taken place on the campus when they first become aware of it?

���The�y actually�� to��ok� the �'98 matter�� to ���the �DA and he shit canned it - no bill. And, BTW,�� To�m Corbett our current governor was aware of Sandusky as early as '94 and did squat. His larger political ambition was his future political ambition. If Sandusky was a His�to��ry professor, ra�the�r than a former football coach, this s��to�ry would never have broken in�to ���the �news cycle. ��

Jethro Tull  posted on  2012-07-29   14:31:01 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#69. To: purplerose (#63)

Not to blame the State police alone because there are other elements involved in this corruption. But how is it not possible for State police to not communicate to those faculty and staff on a daily basis of criminal activity having taken place on the campus when they first become aware of it?

��The�y actually took� the �'98 matter to� the �DA and he shit canned it - no bill. And, BTW, Tom Corbett our current governor was aware of Sandusky as early as '94 and did squat. His larger political ambition was his future political ambition. If Sandusky was a History professor, ra�the�r than a former football coach, this story would never have broken into� the �news cycle. �

Jethro Tull  posted on  2012-07-29   14:32:30 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#70. To: All (#69)

I haven't a clue why my reply looks as it does.

Jethro Tull  posted on  2012-07-29   14:33:59 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#71. To: Cynicom (#67)

Penn State is in a rush to sign checks and have the nightmare in Happy valley go away

Yep, and the quicker these SOBs can make it yesterday's news, the more certain that nobody will take a deep look into the abyss. Fairly standard political/criminal conduct.

Jethro Tull  posted on  2012-07-29   14:37:48 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#72. To: Jethro Tull (#69)

Ok, I see the problem. It's much bigger than I imagined. The entire State of Pennsylvania includes the State governor involved in this cover-up.

This sounds a lot like a criminal conspiracy.

I have read many cases filed in the S.C.O.T.U.S. of people attempting to sue a state in Federal court but only to have the matter thrown out because to sue a university is an armleg of the State. Because of this argument, the 11th Amendment bars any such suits against the university but it is not a bar to sue for temporary or permanent injunctive relief. I believe this is because suing for any other legal remedy would be trying to gain access to the State Treasury which would bankrupt the State.

purplerose  posted on  2012-07-29   17:07:42 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#73. To: Jethro Tull (#70)

I haven't a clue why my reply looks as it does.

Is that a secret code to fool us rubes????

Cynicom  posted on  2012-07-29   17:09:37 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#74. To: purplerose (#72)

This sounds a lot like a criminal conspiracy.

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.

Damn.

Cynicom  posted on  2012-07-29   17:12:03 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#75. To: Cynicom (#74) (Edited)

Yep

More likely the criminal conspiracy applies in these two statutes:

www.lneilsmith.org/18usc.html

purplerose  posted on  2012-07-29   17:15:37 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#76. To: Cynicom, rubes (#73)

Is that a secret code to fool us rubes????

�I like� that�. � A secrete rube code. ��

Jethro Tull  posted on  2012-07-29   18:40:21 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#77. To: All (#76)

�wow, it h�a�ppened� a�g�a�in �

Jethro Tull  posted on  2012-07-29   19:07:49 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#78. To: Jethro Tull, Pinguinite (#69)

Neil, can you figure out why JT's comments have those question marks?

christine  posted on  2012-07-29   19:14:40 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#79. To: christine, pinguinite (#78)

FWIW, I'm seeing boxes, rather than question marks, like an unknown character on Windoze 7.

Godfrey Smith: Mike, I wouldn't worry. Prosperity is just around the corner.
Mike Flaherty: Yeah, it's been there a long time. I wish I knew which corner.
My Man Godfrey (1936)

Esso  posted on  2012-07-29   19:27:47 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#80. To: Cynicom (#73)

Yup, rube codes for sure.

Godfrey Smith: Mike, I wouldn't worry. Prosperity is just around the corner.
Mike Flaherty: Yeah, it's been there a long time. I wish I knew which corner.
My Man Godfrey (1936)

Esso  posted on  2012-07-29   19:29:24 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#81. To: Esso (#80)

Yup, rube codes for sure.

Perhaps, what it really may be is a systematic color coding structured programming from a system's internal structure of The Tree of Good and Evil.

purplerose  posted on  2012-07-29   19:36:22 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#82. To: christine (#78)

Is this working? It looks fine in preview.

Jethro Tull  posted on  2012-07-29   19:53:23 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#83. To: christine, Jethro Tull (#78)

We see question marks or whatever because the comment contains extended characters. Why, I don't know, but since it's only him, it pretty much means his browser went screwy. Shutting down and restarting the browser should do it. If not, reboot the computer.

Pinguinite  posted on  2012-07-29   23:45:25 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#84. To: Cynicom, purplerose (#74)

This sounds a lot like a criminal conspiracy.

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.

Damn.

Yes, I was shocked at the thought too. NOT.

Perseverent Gardener
"“Believe nothing merely because you have been told it. Do not believe what your teacher tells you merely out of respect for the teacher. But whatsoever, after due examination and analysis, you find to be kind, conducive to the good, the benefit, the welfare of all beings - that doctrine believe and cling to, and take it as your guide.” ~ Gautama Siddhartha — The Buddha

Original_Intent  posted on  2012-07-30   0:28:14 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#85. To: Original_Intent (#84)

I would agree. I understand what is really going on. It sure sounds to me like a highly sophisticated ruby of a diamond of programming going on.

purplerose  posted on  2012-07-30   1:18:49 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#86. To: Original_Intent, Cynicom (#85)

What you will now read is known only to an exclusive few. Spiritual castles (Grandfather, Father, Mother, and Grandmother castles) and spiritual temples (to Moloch and Baal etc.) are constructed internally. Entire spiritual worlds are constructed internally. The most primal parts of the mind, and the key early alters and the core essence are usually taken to the spiritual constructs within the Illuminati slave. The gems are empowered by the light of Lucifer (an alter-demon combination). But even more deeper than that are the generational ties. The programmers, who themselves are generational Satanists, are part of a plan where the generational legal rights of Satan are accumulated upon an individual. In the Scriptures it says that the sins of the fathers are visited upon the third and fourth generation. This gives Satan a legal right to the generational victim. Each bloodline has its Prince demons attached to it—just like in the Bible the Prince of Persia was both a man and a demon. Hidden within spiritual constructs such as black diamonds, and diamonds, are further demonic constructs. The thrones of the generational Prince Demons are attached to the primal human part of the victim. This is entirely spiritual—beyond that there are no words to describe it. ( Pg 223)

Source: The Illuminati Formula used to create an undetectable total mind controlled slave: Chapt 7 Engineering and Structuring of an MPD system page 185

purplerose  posted on  2012-07-30   2:08:20 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#87. To: purplerose, football fans, 4 (#86)

The local sports-talk station reported that PSU's all Big Ten kicker visited the University of Texas this weekend and has been fully vetted to play this season should he decide to transfer here.

The players with professional aspirations are not stupid.

I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them ~ Thomas Jefferson

Lod  posted on  2012-07-30   9:40:36 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#88. To: Lod (#87)

The players with professional aspirations are not stupid.

That may be true, Lod. But, what is taking place under our noses is something so vile that we dare to question who is behind this mess. Human sex trafficking occurs everywhere and is BIG business especially in the sports arena.

purplerose  posted on  2012-07-30   15:04:06 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#89. To: purplerose, 4 (#88)

I'd look to the churches and the politicians first for sex-commerce; most athletes, and other entertainers, have more than enough groupies for their needs.

Zero data - just my impression/opinion.

I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them ~ Thomas Jefferson

Lod  posted on  2012-07-30   16:01:38 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#90. To: Obnoxicated (#28)

I have no sympathy for psu fans.

I recall working a Northwestern football game once. The opposing team was the Michigan Wolverines. There was a Wolverine fan in the student section, and the Northwestern fans were giving him a hard time. I intervened and told them, "How would you like it if you were in Ann Arbor and you were treated the same way?" They knocked off the crap real fast.

"When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall, one by one." Edmund Burke

BTP Holdings  posted on  2012-07-30   16:29:11 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#91. To: Eric Stratton (#31)

Pro football in 1968

I believe that was when Mike Ditka and Dick Butkus were playing for the Bears. Not too sure, tho. I was in the 8th Grade back then.

"When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall, one by one." Edmund Burke

BTP Holdings  posted on  2012-07-30   16:32:48 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#92. To: Lod (#89)

"...most athletes, and other entertainers, have more than enough groupies for their needs."

Sex-commerce is not just limited to politicians and the church. It's heavily in the athletics and very very much infested into the acting and music entertainment industry. I know this for a fact because I worked in the entertainment industry for many years. I worked with mothers who were pimping out their daughters in the sex trade business and promoting their "skills" to established people in the entertainment industry. For real! The daughter of the mother was an aspiring fashion model. And from what I know most of the models in the industry become prostitutes via through elite model/talent agencies. As for the athletes, many of them are cash cows to their trainers and talent agents too. Why do you think many musicians today have chosen to start their own record label business? It is because they do not want to be pimped by the record companies anymore and their creative works stolen from them and their money mismanaged. They care more for their fans than they do the record companies because its is their fans that make them wealthy...not the record companies. It is funny how the record companies like to refer to the fans as "groupies" all the while stealing the works of the artists right under their noses. And then, when the artist signs a record deal with the company to make so many records for such and such amount of money, the artist comes through with the work but the profits are concealed from the artists by the record company managers. (This happened to Sly Stone!) As a result, the artist winds up turning tricks, and selling narcotics to honor their debts to the record companies. Many of the artists wind up paying with their lives. This is the dark side of the music business. In the acting business, you become whatever they want you to be. If you are hungry for success, it comes with a price and sacrifice; meaning your soul.

purplerose  posted on  2012-07-30   17:26:42 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#93. To: Obnoxicated (#28)

I have no sympathy for psu fans. I went to a game in Happy Valley in '05. Their student section bombed our school's band (osu) with urine filled balloons. Needless to say, our band will never return to their stadium again.

I recall when Northwestern was playing Michigan Wolverines in Dyche Stadium. I was working security.

There was a Michigan fan in the student section, and the Northwestern students were harrassing him. I told them all that they would not want to be treated the same way if they were in Ann Arbor.

"When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall, one by one." Edmund Burke

BTP Holdings  posted on  2012-07-31   16:55:49 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


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