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Title: Dinosaurs and the Bible
Source:
Answers in Genesis
URL Source: http://www.answersingenesis.org/docs/2.asp
Published: Nov 13, 2005
Author: Ken Ham
Post Date: 2005-11-13 20:48:25 by A K A Stone
Keywords: Dinosaurs, Bible
Views: 891
Comments: 76
An aura of mystery surrounds the dinosaurs. Where did they come from? Did they evolve? Did they really live millions of years ago? What happened to them? Are there any living today? Has any human being ever seen a live dinosaur? Children and adults alike are absolutely fascinated by these mysterious monsters. Numerous books and movies have been produced to satisfy a seemingly insatiable hunger for information on these puzzling creatures. The truth of the matter, however, is that there are no real mysteries at all, once you have key information that is not generally known and is withheld from the public. Come with me as we take a walk through history and uncover some amazing facts that will answer many of your questions about these ‘terrible lizards.’ Did Dinosaurs Really Exist? Dinosaurs certainly did roam the Earth in the ancient past! Fossils of dinosaurs have been found all over the world, and their bones are displayed in museums for all to see. Scientists have been able to reconstruct many of their skeletons, so we know much about how they may have looked. When Were Dinosaurs Found? The story of their discovery began back in the 1820s, when Gideon Mantell, an English doctor, found some unusual teeth and bones in a quarry. Dr Mantell realized there was something very different about these animal remains, and believed that he had found an entirely new group of reptiles. By 1841, about nine types of these different reptiles had been uncovered, including two called Megalosaurus and Iguanodon. At this time, a famous British scientist (and creationist), Dr Richard Owen, coined the name ‘Dinosauria,’ meaning ‘terrible lizard,’ for this is what the huge bones made him think of. What Makes Dinosaurs Different? Other than the huge size of some dinosaurs, the major feature that really distinguishes dinosaurs from other reptiles (such as crocodiles) is the position of their limbs. Dinosaurs had posture that was fully erect, similar to that in mammals. Most other reptiles have limbs in a sprawling position. For instance, compare the way a crocodile ‘walks’ with that of, say, a cow. Dinosaurs would have moved like a cow, with the limbs supporting the body from beneath. Crocodiles ‘waddle,’ as their limbs project sideways from their body. How Big Were Dinosaurs? Some were as small as chickens, and others were even smaller. Of course, some dinosaurs were very large, weighing in at an estimated 80 tons and standing 40 feet high! The average size of a dinosaur, however, was probably about that of a small horse. When Did Dinosaurs Live? The story we have all heard from movies, television, newspapers, and most magazines and textbooks is that dinosaurs lived millions of year ago. According to evolutionists, the dinosaurs ‘ruled the Earth’ for 140 million years, dying out about 65 million years ago. However, scientists do not dig up anything labeled with those ages. They only uncover dead dinosaurs (i.e., their bones), and their bones do not have labels attached telling how old they are. The idea of millions of years of evolution is just the evolutionists’ story about the past. No scientist was there to see the dinosaurs live through this supposed dinosaur age. In fact, there is no proof whatsoever that the world and its fossil layers are millions of years old. No scientist observed dinosaurs die. Scientists only find the bones in the here and now, and because many of them are evolutionists, they try to fit the story of the dinosaurs into their view. Other scientists, called creation scientists, have a different idea about when dinosaurs lived. They believe they can solve any of the supposed dinosaur mysteries and show how the evidence fits wonderfully with their ideas about the past, beliefs that come from the Bible. The Bible, God’s very special book (or collection of books, really), claims that each writer was supernaturally inspired to write exactly what the Creator of all things wanted him to write down for us so that we can know where we (and dinosaurs) came from, why we are here, and what our future will be. The first book in the Bible—Genesis—teaches us many things about how the universe and life came into existence. Genesis tells us that God created everything—the Earth, stars, sun, moon, plants, animals, and the first two people. Although the Bible does not tell us exactly how long ago it was that God made the world and its creatures, we can make a good estimate of the date of creation by reading through the Bible and noting some interesting passages: 1. God made everything in six days. He did this, by the way, to set a pattern for mankind, which has become our seven day week (as described in Exodus 20:11). God worked for six days and rested for one, as a model for us. Furthermore, Bible scholars will tell you that the Hebrew word for day used in Genesis 1, can only mean an ordinary day in this context. 2. We are told God created the first man and woman—Adam and Eve—on Day Six. Many facts about when their children and their children’s children were born are given in Genesis. These genealogies are recorded throughout the Old Testament, up until the time of Christ. They certainly were not chronologies lasting millions of years. As you add up all of the dates, and accepting that Jesus Christ, the Son of God, came to Earth almost 2000 years ago, we come to the conclusion that the creation of the Earth and animals (including the dinosaurs) occurred only thousands of years ago (perhaps only 6000!), not millions of years. Thus, if the Bible is right (and it is!), dinosaurs must have lived within the past thousands of years. Where Did Dinosaurs Come From? Evolutionists claim that dinosaurs evolved over millions of years. They imagine that one kind of animal slowly changed over long periods of time to become a different kind of animal. For instance, they believe that amphibians changed into reptiles (including dinosaurs) by this gradual process. This would mean, of course, that there would have been millions of creatures during that time that would be ‘in between,’ as amphibians evolved into reptiles. Evidence of these ‘transitional forms,’ as they are called, should be abundant. However, many fossil experts admit that not one unquestionable transitional form between any group of creatures and another has been found anywhere. If dinosaurs evolved from amphibians, there should be, for example, fossil evidence of animals that are part dinosaur and part something else. However, there is no proof of this anywhere. In fact, if you go into any museum you will see fossils of dinosaurs that are 100% dinosaur, not something in between. There are no 25%, 50%, 75%, or even 99% dinosaurs—they are all 100% dinosaur! The Bible tells us that God created all of the land animals on the sixth day of creation. As dinosaurs were land animals, they must have been made on this day, alongside Adam and Eve, who were also created on Day Six (Genesis 1:24-31). If God designed and created dinosaurs, they would have been fully functional, designed to do what they were created for, and would have been 100% dinosaur. This fits exactly with the evidence from the fossil record. Evolutionists declare that no man ever lived alongside dinosaurs. The Bible, however, makes it plain that dinosaurs and people must have lived together. Actually, as we will soon see, there is a lot of evidence for this. What Did Dinosaurs Eat? The Bible teaches (in Genesis 1:29-30) that the original animals (and the first humans) were commanded to be vegetarian. There were no meat eaters in the original creation. Furthermore, there was no death. It was an unblemished world, with Adam and Eve and animals (including dinosaurs) living in perfect harmony, eating only plants. Sadly, it did not stay this way for very long. Adam rebelled against his Creator, bringing sin into the world (Genesis 3:1-7; Romans 5:12). Because of this rebellion, Adam, and thus all of his descendants (you and me), gave up the right to live with a Holy (sinless) and just God. God therefore judged sin with death. The Bible plainly teaches from Genesis to Revelation that there was no death of animals or humans before Adam sinned. (Consider just a few of the many passages, such as: Romans 5:12; Genesis 2:17; Genesis 1:29-30; Romans 8:20-22; Acts 3:21; Hebrews 9:22; I Corinthians 15; Revelation 21:1-4; Revelation 22:3.) This means there could not have been any animal fossils (and no dinosaur bones) before sin. After Adam’s sin, animals and people started to die. It was now a different world, one of death and strife. A world that was once beautiful now suffered under the curse placed upon it by the Creator (Genesis 3:14-19). But a promise was given (Genesis 3:15) that God would provide a way for the penalty of sin to be paid so there would be a way for man to come back to God. Why Do We Find Dinosaur Fossils? In Genesis 6, we read that all flesh (man and animals) had ‘corrupted his way upon the Earth’ (Genesis 6:12). Perhaps people and animals were killing each other; maybe dinosaurs had started killing other animals and humans. In any case, the Bible describes the world as ‘wicked.’ Because of this wickedness, God warned a godly man named Noah that He was going to destroy the world with a Flood (Genesis 6:13). God therefore commanded him to build a great ship (the Ark) so that all the kinds of land animals (which must have included dinosaurs) and Noah’s family could survive on board while the Flood destroyed the entire Earth (Genesis 6:14-20). Some people think that dinosaurs were too big, or there were too many of them, to go on this Ark. However, there were not very many different kinds of dinosaurs. There are certainly hundreds of dinosaur names, but many of these were given to just a bit of bone or skeletons of the same dinosaur found in other countries. It is also reasonable to assume that different sizes, varieties, and sexes of the same kind of dinosaur have ended up with different names. For example, look at the many different varieties and sizes of dogs, but they are all the same kind-the dog kind! In reality, there may have been fewer than 50 kinds of dinosaurs. God sent two of every (seven of some) land animal into the Ark (Genesis 7:2-3; 7:8-9)—there were no exceptions. Therefore, dinosaurs must have been on the Ark. Even though there was ample room in the huge ship for large animals, perhaps God sent young adults into the Ark that still had plenty of room for them to grow. Well, what happened to all the land animals that did not go on the Ark? Very simply, they drowned. Many would have been covered with tons of mud as the rampaging water covered the land (Genesis 7:11-12,19). Because of this quick burial, many of the animals would have been preserved as fossils. If this happened, you would expect to find evidence of billions of dead things buried in rock layers (formed from this mud) all over the Earth. This is exactly what you do find. By the way, the Flood of Noah’s day probably occurred just over 4,500 years ago. Creationists believe that this event formed many of the fossil layers around the Earth. (Additional fossil layers were formed by other floods as the Earth settled down after the great Flood.) Thus, the dinosaur fossils which were formed as a result of this Flood were probably formed about 4,500 years ago, not millions of years ago. Have Dinosaurs Lived in Recent Times? If the different kinds of dinosaurs survived the Flood, then they must have come off the Ark and lived in the post-Flood world. In the Bible, in Job 40:15-24, God describes to Job (who lived after the Flood) a great beast with which Job was familiar. This great animal, called ‘behemoth,’ is described as ‘the chief of the ways of God,’ perhaps the biggest land animal God had created. Impressively, he moved his tail like a cedar tree! Although some Bible commentaries say this may have been an elephant or hippopotamus, the description actually fits that of a dinosaur like Brachiosaurus. Elephants and hippos certainly do not have tails like cedar trees! Actually, very few animals are singled out in the Bible for such a detailed description. Contrary to what many may think, what we know now as dinosaurs get more mention in the Scriptures than most animals! So dinosaurs—all the different kinds—must have lived alongside of people after the Flood. Are Dinosaurs Mentioned in Ancient Literature? Interestingly, the word ‘dragon’ is used a number of times in the Old Testament. In most instances, the word dinosaur could substitute for dragon and it would fit very nicely. Creation scientists believe that dinosaurs were called dragons before the word dinosaur was invented in the 1800s. We would not expect to find the word dinosaur in Bibles like the Authorized Version (1611), as it was translated well before the word dinosaur was ever used. Also, there are many very old history books in various libraries around the world that have detailed records of dragons and their encounters with people. Surprisingly (or not so surprisingly for creationists), many of these descriptions of dragons fit with how modern scientists would describe dinosaurs, even Tyrannosaurus. Unfortunately, this evidence is not considered valid by evolutionists. Why? Only because their belief is that man and dinosaurs did not live at the same time! However, the more we research the historical literature, the more we realize there is overwhelming evidence that dragons were real beasts, much like our modern reconstructions of dinosaurs, and that their existence has been recorded by many different people, even just hundreds of years ago. What Happened to Dinosaurs? Evolutionists use their imagination in a big way in answering this question. Because of their belief that dinosaurs ‘ruled’ the world for millions of years, and then disappeared millions of years before man allegedly evolved, they have had to come up with all sorts of guesses to explain this ‘mysterious’ disappearance. When reading evolutionist literature, you will be astonished at the range of ideas concerning their supposed extinction. The following is just a small list of theories: Dinosaurs starved to death; they died from overeating; they were poisoned; they became blind from cataracts and could not reproduce; mammals ate their eggs. Other causes include-volcanic dust, poisonous gases, comets, sunspots, meteorites, mass suicide, constipation, parasites, shrinking brain (and greater stupidity), slipped discs, changes in the composition of air, etc. It is obvious that evolutionists don’t know what happened and are grasping at straws. In a recent evolutionary book on dinosaurs, ‘A New Look At the Dinosaurs,’ the author made the statement: ‘Now comes the important question. What caused all these extinctions at one particular point in time, approximately 65 million years ago? Dozens of reasons have been suggested, some serious and sensible, others quite crazy, and yet others merely as a joke. Every year people come up with new theories on this thorny problem. The trouble is that if we are to find just one reason to account for them all, it would have to explain the death, all at the same time, of animals living on land and of animals living in the sea; but, in both cases, of only some of those animals, for many of the land dwellers and many of the sea-dwellers went on living quite happily into the following period. Alas, no such one explanation exists’ (Alan Charig, p. 150). But, one such explanation does exist. If you remove the evolutionary framework, get rid of the millions of years, and then take the Bible seriously, you will find an explanation that fits the facts and makes perfect sense: At the time of the Flood, many of the sea creatures died, but some survived. In addition, all of the land creatures outside the Ark died, but the representatives of all the kinds that survived on the Ark lived in the new world after the Flood. Those land animals (including dinosaurs) found the new world to be much different than the one before the Flood. Due to (1) competition for food that was no longer in abundance, (2) other catastrophes, (3) man killing for food (and perhaps for fun), and (4) the destruction of habitats, etc., many species of animals eventually died out. The group of animals we now call dinosaurs just happened to die out too. In fact, quite a number of animals be come extinct each year. Extinction seems to be the rule in Earth history (not the formation of new types of animals as you would expect from evolution). Will We Ever See a Live Dinosaur? The answer is probably not … but, then again? There are some scientists who believe a few dinosaurs may have survived in remote jungles. We are still discovering new species of animals and plants today in areas that have been too difficult to explore until now. Even natives in some countries describe beasts that fit with what might be a dinosaur. Creationists, of course, would not be surprised if someone found a living dinosaur. However, evolutionists would then have to explain why they made dogmatic statements that man and dinosaur never lived at the same time. I suspect they would say something to the effect that this dinosaur somehow survived because it was trapped in a remote area that has not changed for millions of years. You see, no matter what is found, or how embarrassing it is to evolutionists’ ideas, they will always be able to concoct an ‘answer’ because evolution is a belief. It is not science—it is not fact! What Lessons Can We Learn From the Dinosaur? When we see the bones of dinosaurs, we can be reminded that death was not a part of the original creation. Death is actually an intruder, entering when the first man disobeyed God. The Bible tells us that because we are all descendants of Adam, we too have sinned: ‘Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned’ (Romans 5:12); ‘For all have sinned and come short of the glory of God’ (Romans 3:23). We need to recognize that the wickedness in the world is because of sin, because man rebelled against God. We can also be reminded that God, who made all things, including the dinosaurs, is also a judge of His creation. He judged Adam’s rebellion by cursing the world with death. Adam was warned about what would happen if he disobeyed God’s instruction not to eat the fruit of one particular tree. ‘But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die’ (Genesis 2:17). Dinosaurs can also remind us that God judged the rebellion in Noah’s day by destroying the wicked world with water, resulting in the death of millions of creatures. The Bible teaches us that He will again judge the world, but next time by fire: ‘But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the Earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up’ (2 Peter 3:10). We can also be reminded that after this judgment by fire, God will make a new heaven and Earth: ‘Nevertheless we, according to His promise, look for new heavens and a new Earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness’ (2 Peter 3:13). And what will it be like in this new Earth? ‘And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away’ (Revelation 21:4). But we are also warned that many will not be allowed into this new Earth but will suffer for eternity: ‘But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death’ (Revelation 21:8). Humans, who are all sinful from conception (Psalm 51:5), cannot live with a Holy God, but are condemned to separation from God. But, God provided a wonderful means of deliverance from sin. The Bible teaches that God offered the perfect sacrifice needed to pay the penalty for man’s sin. God’s own Son, the one who in fact created the world (Colossians 1:16), came to Earth as a man, as a descendant of Adam, to suffer the death penalty for sin. ‘But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept. For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead. For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive’ (I Corinthians 15:20-22). The Lord Jesus Christ died on a cross, but on the third day, rose again, conquering death, so that anyone who believes in Him and accepts Him into his or her life, is able to come back to God and live for eternity with the Creator. ‘For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life’ (John 3:16); ‘If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness’ (I John 1:9). For those who do not accept by faith what Christ has done for them and do not recognize their sinful nature and need for redemption, the Bible warns that such people will live forever, but will be separated from God in a place of torment that the Bible calls Hell. But for those who commit their lives to the Lord—what a wonderful message! What a wonderful Savior! What a wonderful salvation in Christ the Creator! If you, the reader of this web page, want to know more about how you can spend eternity with the God of creation, please click here.
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#1. To: A K A Stone (#0)
Great Sunday evening post. Thank you. God Bless.
Wow. Where to start. If dinosaurs evolved from amphibians, there should be, for example, fossil evidence of animals that are part dinosaur and part something else. Fossils aren't that common. One scholar estimated that of the entire human race, in hundreds of millions of years, there would be only say 50 complete specimens. Bones and tissue require very uncommon conditions to fossilize, and no 6,000 years is not enough time. However, there is no proof of this anywhere. There's no proof of a world-encompassing flood, talking donkeys or manna from Heaven, God's firmament kingdom where we've learned to traverse, etc. In fact, if you go into any museum you will see fossils of dinosaurs that are 100% dinosaur, not something in between. There are no 25%, 50%, 75%, or even 99% dinosaurs—they are all 100% dinosaur! This is a lie. Most of what you see at museums are recreations. There are extremely few complete specimens. The Bible teaches (in Genesis 1:29-30) that the original animals (and the first humans) were commanded to be vegetarian. There were no meat eaters in the original creation. Furthermore, there was no death. It was an unblemished world, with Adam and Eve and animals (including dinosaurs) living in perfect harmony, eating only plants. And they were charged to go forth and multiply. Do you see problems with multiplying creatures that never die in a finite are (the garden of Eden). No? Then I guess Thomas Malthus was smarter than Yaweh. In Genesis 6, we read that all flesh (man and animals) had ‘corrupted his way upon the Earth’ (Genesis 6:12). Perhaps people and animals were killing each other; maybe dinosaurs had started killing other animals and humans. But some animals stayed herbivores, others became omnivores or carnivores. How was this determined? by lottery? It's easier to believe that all creatures developed to prefer what was available to them in their environment from the start. God therefore commanded him to build a great ship (the Ark) so that all the kinds of land animals (which must have included dinosaurs) and Noah’s family could survive on board while the Flood destroyed the entire Earth (Genesis 6:14-20). Out of curiousity, how did, say Australias marsupials or animals local to the Americas or Northern Europe get to the Middle East to be saved when there's no easy method or in some cases no land bridge? Then how did they get back? Smels like B.S. to me. Well, what happened to all the land animals that did not go on the Ark? Very simply, they drowned. Because God was pissed at man's sinfulness? He killed innocent animals. This is perfect compassion? Actually, very few animals are singled out in the Bible for such a detailed description. Contrary to what many may think, what we know now as dinosaurs get more mention in the Scriptures than most animals! So dinosaurs—all the different kinds—must have lived alongside of people after the Flood. Are Dinosaurs Mentioned in Ancient Literature? Hmmmm. No mention though of other creatures in the fossil record, thigs which surely have crept upon the Earth at some point. Pre-human hominids. Cro-Magnon, Neanderthal, Homo-Erectus, and many more. Neither Genesis nor this article makes any mention of those. Furthermore, we have evidence of this evolution in our bodies. Almost 99% of Human DNA is identical to Chimpanzees. We have atrophied tailbones, appendixes (an evolutionary throwback), body hair which was once clothing. Many people get impacted wisdom teeth that grow in that way because the jawbone was once longer. So is God a comedian? Or just trying to test our faith in him? The three races of man, Mongoloid, Caucaziod and negroid have all adapted to their respective climates and it shows in their features. It is obvious that evolutionists don’t know what happened and are grasping at straws. Explain to me how Joshua stopped the sun and we'll see whose grasping at straws. More later, when I have time to pick apart additional deceptions.
Two Schreck movies say otherwise, pal....the donkies sounded like Eddie Murphy.
"If they ever drained all of the bullshit out of your average bush-bot, you could bury what's left of him in a matchbox."
lol
somehow i just knew you'd post to this. ;)
I think it was in my very early teens that I stopped believing in fairy tales...I file the bible under FICTION...
"As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron." H.L. Mencken
Moldi-Box posted on 2005-11-13 21:19:07 ET Reply Trace Private Reply Thanks for you efforts, I'll just roll my eyes and sigh. Pathetic really, these people ought to get out in nature and really experience the majesty of our creator rather than insisting a collection of disparate writings by humans are the final word of god.
OOp's I stand corrected!
I might say ancient oral history that has retained some elements of verifiable fact to it. Most of it was first put into writing about 850 - 700 bc,as the Hebrew alphabet developed from the Phonician/Ugaritian language. It certainly is not complete fiction, tho I get your drift.
Here's what I believe, and not much short of a visit from God will change my mind. People, human beings are the creation of a superior race. We were created from the chimps and monkeys way back when. We had people who basically looked after us, watching our genetic development, and setting us on a path that would bring us to become more like our progenitors. Then, some great cataclysm happened, and they just stopped coming around. Maybe we primates were just unable to evolve as fast as they'd liked, or were unruly and savage. Perhaps it's the reason why extra-terrestrials avoid this planet like the fucking plague. To me, this is far more plausible than the stuff in the bible for a number of reasons, but the main reason is this. When I look at a monkey, I see a monkey. When I look at my fellow human beings, I see the same fucking monkey. There is no difference between humans and primates. NOT ONE THING when it comes right down to it. What happened in Louisiana when they had the hurricane? Within 24 hours, it was all primate behavior. What happens all over the world when a tragedy strikes? People turn back into the animals they are on the inside. There is no nobility in being a human. NOT ONE FUCKING BIT, and for people to sit there and pretend that they're holier than I am because they believe something from a book that has been used to control people, to manipulate people, and to destroy people for the last 2000 years, is absolutely asinine. In fact, it's worse. I'd rather believe that we're on our own, and that our problems are our own, than believe in a God that has turned his back on this planet and allowed evil to take it over. If there's a hell in this universe, it's this fucking planet, because the lies never end, the suffering never ends, and the bullshit of trying to be a perfect person, in a fucked up imperfect world will drive anyone insane. Which is why I know that we as a species are doomed to extinction, and if we're not, we certainly deserve to be because of the people who run our country, who run the world, and who oppress every single human being on this planet by their very existence.
#2. To: A K A Stone (#0)
#3. To: Moldi-Box (#2)
There's no proof of a world-encompassing flood, talking donkeys...
#4. To: orangedog (#3)
Two Schreck movies say otherwise, pal....the donkies sounded like Eddie Murphy.
#5. To: Moldi-Box (#2)
#6. To: A K A Stone (#0)
But we are also warned that many will not be allowed into this new Earth but will suffer for eternity: ‘But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death’ (Revelation 21:8).
#7. To: Moldi-Box (#2)
More later, when I have time to pick apart additional deceptions.
#8. To: orangedog (#3)
Two Schreck movies say otherwise, pal....the donkies sounded like Eddie Murphy.
#9. To: Steppenwolf (#6)
I file the bible under FICTION...
#10. To: A K A Stone (#0)
 | So many morons, so few bullets. |
#11. To: Steppenwolf (#6)
Wake me when someone finds a bible with God's autograph in it or he holds a book signing. Until then we are dealing with a flawed document written by a flawed species.
I think it was in my very early teens that I stopped believing in fairy tales...I file the bible under FICTION...
"The more I see of life, the less I fear death" - Me.
#12. To: christine (#5)
Hehe. It's a dear subject to me. And thanks again for resetting my "real" moniker.
somehow i just knew you'd post to this. ;)
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#13. To: tom007 (#7)
Agreed. I know arguing this stuff is like naval gazing, but I'm compelled to do it for some reason. We'll see how long this goes on and what amusing answers they come up with.
Thanks for you efforts, I'll just roll my eyes and sigh. Pathetic really, these people ought to get out in nature and really experience the majesty of our creator rather than insisting a collection of disparate writings by humans are the final word of god.
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#14. To: A K A Stone (#0)
Adam was warned about what would happen if he disobeyed God’s instruction not to eat the fruit of one particular tree. If you recall, there was another tree God didn't want Adam touching. Genesis 3:22 "And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us,to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever: 3:23 Therefore the LORD God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken. 3:24 So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life." Wait a sec. In the NT, we start living for ever (our souls anyway) so Jesus could make valid (in a simpleton's mind) threats against nonbelievers. But earlier Yahweh was afraid of us having knowledge and living forever so he took the pains of installing flaming (sworded) Cherubims. But then in the NT it's a given that a human life lasts forever. What gives? It surely isn't just the physical body that OT Yahweh was worried would live forever. Right? Otherwise eating from the tree of life would have made man immune from his judgement (since our immortal souls are currently succeptible w/o partaking) in which case he isn't all powerful. IOW why was Yahweh worried about man being immortal, when we are/were anyway? Was there a transition before the NT that fundamentally changed the nature of things? And also made God stop appearing in burning bushes and columns of fire and suddenly become inaccessable to man? OT Yahewh did have threats against wayward people without summoning horrendous images of perpetual torture (thanks Jesus/Paul), his threat was if you despise his word, you will be separated from your people. He was a Nationalistic diety for the Hebrews and had no relevancy elsewhere. Trying to scale this sad joke to apply to the rest of the world and other eras (the purpose of the NT) is transparent. You may as well try to do the same thing with Osiris. And since you got me on the topic of Egyptian Gods, what's up with Exodus 12:12 "12:12 For I will pass through the land of Egypt this night, and will smite all the firstborn in the land of Egypt, both man and beast; and against all the gods of Egypt I will execute judgment: I am the LORD" Yahweh believed in the existance of Egyptian gods? No fundies today would acknowledge that Isis and Horus ever lived, but Yahweh did. Who created them? Yahweh just to hate on them? That passage can't mean the Pharoh(s) because Yahweh clearly knew the difference between man and dieties. It can't mean idols because who would execute judgement against stationary goods. No, the writers very much believed in other dieties and believed theirs was truly king of the hill.
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#15. To: Dude Lebowski (#14)
Maybe because giving us the entire immortality package would be about as responsible as giving a bottle of Jack Daniels and car keys to teenagers?
IOW why was Yahweh worried about man being immortal, when we are/were anyway?
"If they ever drained all of the bullshit out of your average bush-bot, you could bury what's left of him in a matchbox."
#16. To: Pissed Off Janitor (#11)
God offered to write an introduction ,but "She" coildn't stop laughing long enough to write legibly...
Wake me when someone finds a bible with God's autograph in it or he holds a book signing. Until then we are dealing with a flawed document written by a flawed species.
"As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron." H.L. Mencken
#17. To: A K A Stone (#0)
To start with .. what difference does this make .. one way or another? And Ken Ham is an idiot btw.
"No question now, what had happened to the faces of the pigs. The creatures outside looked from pig to man, and from man to pig, and from pig to man again; but already it was impossible to say which was which."
#18. To: Moldi-Box (#2)
Doctor David Gentry ( I think that was his name) made fossils in the lab in a few weeks time.
Fossils aren't that common. One scholar estimated that of the entire human race, in hundreds of millions of years, there would be only say 50 complete specimens. Bones and tissue require very uncommon conditions to fossilize, and no 6,000 years is not enough time.
#19. To: Moldi-Box (#2)
Actually there is. Fossils are found in the highest mountains all over the earth.
There's no proof of a world-encompassing flood, talking donkeys or manna from Heaven, God's firmament kingdom where we've learned to traverse, etc.
#20. To: Moldi-Box (#2)
This is a lie. Most of what you see at museums are recreations. There are extremely few complete specimens. Your comments would make that statement true.
In fact, if you go into any museum you will see fossils of dinosaurs that are 100% dinosaur, not something in between. There are no 25%, 50%, 75%, or even 99% dinosaurs—they are all 100% dinosaur!
#21. To: Moldi-Box (#2)
So cars evolved from bikes. No they are just building materilas. Try cross breeding a chimp with a human. It isn't going to work.
Furthermore, we have evidence of this evolution in our bodies. Almost 99% of Human DNA is identical to Chimpanzees. We have atrophied tailbones, appendixes (an evolutionary throwback), body hair which was once clothing. Many people get impacted wisdom teeth that grow in that way because the jawbone was once longer. So is God a comedian? Or just trying to test our faith in him?
#22. To: Moldi-Box (#2)
Explain to me how Joshua stopped the sun and we'll see whose grasping at straws. More later, when I have time to pick apart additional deceptions. Joshua stated what he saw. Post some more stuff and ill smash it too.
It is obvious that evolutionists don’t know what happened and are grasping at straws.
#23. To: A K A Stone (#0)
But artificial fertilization avoids intercourse, and therefor produces an offspring without sin or need of baptism....LOL
Humans, who are all sinful from conception (Psalm 51:5),
"As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron." H.L. Mencken
#24. To: Pissed Off Janitor (#11)
Wake me when someone finds a bible with God's autograph in it or he holds a book signing. Until then we are dealing with a flawed document written by a flawed species. I feel sorry for your soul.
I think it was in my very early teens that I stopped believing in fairy tales...I file the bible under FICTION...
#25. To: Dude Lebowski (#14)
Your soul lives forever. He was talking about our flesh bodies.
Wait a sec. In the NT, we start living for ever (our souls anyway) so Jesus could make valid (in a simpleton's mind) threats against nonbelievers. But earlier Yahweh was afraid of us having knowledge and living forever so he took the pains of installing flaming (sworded) Cherubims. But then in the NT it's a given that a human life lasts forever. What gives?
#26. To: Dude Lebowski (#14)
Yahweh believed in the existance of Egyptian gods? No fundies today would acknowledge that Isis and Horus ever lived, but Yahweh did. Who created them? Yahweh just to hate on them? That is a small g gods. They made gods out of images and earthly things. He is the real capital G God.
And since you got me on the topic of Egyptian Gods, what's up with Exodus 12:12 "12:12 For I will pass through the land of Egypt this night, and will smite all the firstborn in the land of Egypt, both man and beast; and against all the gods of Egypt I will execute judgment: I am the LORD"
#27. To: Zipporah (#17)
Because if we are created then we have a responsibility to live our life a certain way. Ken Ham isn't an idiot he is a very nice man. I've met him.
To start with .. what difference does this make .. one way or another? And Ken Ham is an idiot btw.
#28. To: Steppenwolf (#23)
Sin is still in the blood. Thats why we need Jesus. He wasn't born of a woman. He has sinless blood.
But artificial fertilization avoids intercourse, and therefor produces an offspring without sin or need of baptism....LOL
#29. To: A K A Stone (#27)
Ken Ham is an idiot.. To begin he claims that DNA is 'lost'.. plainly not true.. Also the man espouses Marxist ideology whether or not you realize it or not.. His claims also that there are no races.. that we are all one race is outrageous.. There are more differences genetically between the races than there are between men and women.. now obviously there ARE physical observable differences between a man and a woman are there not?
"No question now, what had happened to the faces of the pigs. The creatures outside looked from pig to man, and from man to pig, and from pig to man again; but already it was impossible to say which was which."
#30. To: Zipporah (#29)
Ken had doesn't fit the dictinary definition of an idiot. DNA is lost. We don't transfer all of our DNA to our children or they would be clones. We get some from both parents. There is only one race the human race. We can all mate with each other and not monkeys. Even evilutionists say there is ONE common ancestor to all people. Of course there are differences between men and women. Im not a bed wetting liberal.
Ken Ham is an idiot.. To begin he claims that DNA is 'lost'.. plainly not true.. Also the man espouses Marxist ideology whether or not you realize it or not.. His claims also that there are no races.. that we are all one race is outrageous.. There are more differences genetically between the races than there are between men and women.. now obviously there ARE physical observable differences between a man and a woman are there not?
#31. To: A K A Stone (#30)
UH.. DNA is NEVER lost.. it may be suppressed but NOT LOST.. Now you're spewing Marxist thought whether you know it or not. #1 .. Physical anthropology and forensic science proves you wrong on this.. Whether or not interracial procreation can happen or not .. it does not change the fact there are racial differences.. And again I am telling you there are more difference genetically between the races than there are between MEN and WOMEN.. You're buying into Ken Ham propaganda.. plain and simple whether you realize it or not.
There is only one race the human race. We can all mate with each other and not monkeys. Even evilutionists say there is ONE common ancestor to all people. Of course there are differences between men and women. Im not a bed wetting liberal.
"No question now, what had happened to the faces of the pigs. The creatures outside looked from pig to man, and from man to pig, and from pig to man again; but already it was impossible to say which was which."
#32. To: Zipporah (#31)
Marx doesn't believe in God. So you are closer to marx's position on this one issue than I.
UH.. DNA is NEVER lost.. it may be suppressed but NOT LOST.. Now you're spewing Marxist thought
#33. To: A K A Stone (#32)
You just don't get it.. do you not realize that American Christianity has been compromised? What better way to get a philosophy promoted than to incorporate it within Christianity itself?
Marx doesn't believe in God. So you are closer to marx's position on this one issue than I.
"No question now, what had happened to the faces of the pigs. The creatures outside looked from pig to man, and from man to pig, and from pig to man again; but already it was impossible to say which was which."
#34. To: A K A Stone (#30)
Do you know the difference between a race and a species? Irish Setters can breed with pitbulls, but that doesn't mean both breeds share the same temperament or physical characteristics.
There is only one race the human race. We can all mate with each other and not monkeys.
And I'm optimistic. See, I think you can be realistic and optimistic at the same time. I'm optimistic we'll achieve -- I know we won't achieve if we send mixed signals. I know we're not going to achieve our objective if we send mixed signals - gwbush
#35. To: Zipporah (#33)
Sure there are Christians in America that are compromised/phoney/false teachers. But that doesn't make the true ones marxists. Ken Ham is from Australia anyway. He's a missionary to America to wake us up.
You just don't get it.. do you not realize that American Christianity has been compromised? What better way to get a philosophy promoted than to incorporate it within Christianity itself?
#36. To: Dakmar (#34)
Whats your point. We have a common ancestor. Even the evilutionists acknowledge this.
Do you know the difference between a race and a species? Irish Setters can breed with pitbulls, but that doesn't mean both breeds share the same temperament or physical characteristics.
#37. To: A K A Stone (#30)
That's right, you're a bed wetting Satan worshipper.
Im not a bed wetting liberal.
And I'm optimistic. See, I think you can be realistic and optimistic at the same time. I'm optimistic we'll achieve -- I know we won't achieve if we send mixed signals. I know we're not going to achieve our objective if we send mixed signals - gwbush
#38. To: Dakmar (#37)
Come on play fair. I accept christ. If I rejected Christ then that could be the case perhaps.
That's right, you're a bed wetting Satan worshipper.
#39. To: A K A Stone (#36)
You said that since the different races of man can interbreed that proves that we are all the same race, so I'm asking if you meant species rather than race.
Whats your point. We have a common ancestor.
And I'm optimistic. See, I think you can be realistic and optimistic at the same time. I'm optimistic we'll achieve -- I know we won't achieve if we send mixed signals. I know we're not going to achieve our objective if we send mixed signals - gwbush
#40. To: A K A Stone (#28)
Humans, who are all "sinful from conception" (Psalm 51:5), The bible says ,sin is caused by the act of "conception".. NOT being born... therefor, artificial insemination ELIMINATES sin.....VOILA ! artificially insemination produces SAINTS ....HA,HA...sex is DIRTY....
Sin is still in the blood. Thats why we need Jesus. He wasn't born of a woman. He has sinless blood.
"As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron." H.L. Mencken
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