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Title: How 9/11 Was Done
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URL Source: http://physics911.net/how-911-was-done/
Published: Sep 3, 2012
Author: http://physics911.net/how-911-was-done/
Post Date: 2012-09-03 14:09:24 by tom007
Keywords: None
Views: 14006
Comments: 674
How 9/11 Was Done For additional notes see the accompanying blog 911notes.blogspot.com. Prologue Read the following two screens of text to learn what happened at 9/11. 9/11 was a master plot, concocted by a handfull of Israelis and dual passport Americans and carried out by the resources of the Mossad. Larry Silverstein leases a nearly worthless dinosaur WTC building complex (worthless due to the asbestos the buildings were stuffed with and needed to be cleaned up, the cost of which may have rivaled the value of the buildings themselves) weeks before 9/11, makes sure it is over insured against terrorist acts and hires an Israeli security firm. From that moment on the coast is clear to let a team of demolition experts from the Israeli army led by Peer Segalovitz into the WTC buildings. These charges plus detonators had been prepared at the premises of the Urban Moving Systems company, a Mossad front. During the weeks before 9/11 these prepared charges were loaded into vans, driven into the basements of WTC Twin Towers next to the elevator shaft, unloaded into the elevator, and lifted onto the roof of the elevator through the opening in the elevator ceiling. Next the elevator moved from floor to floor while charges where being attached to the columns as displayed in this video from 0:22 onwards. The detonators of these charges were radiographic controlled and finally detonated from WTC7 on the day of 9/11. Fast backward, Hamburg 54 Marienstrasse, july 2000, 22:40. Mohamed Atta, Al Shehhi and Jarrah (who were later blamed of being the pilots of flight 11, 175 and 93 respectively), who share the apartment hear the ringing of the door bell. Jarrah opens the door, 5 masked men make their way into the apartment with drawn pistols. The 3 Arabs are forced to lay on the ground. Their passports are confiscated, next the 3 men are made unconscious with some liquid and strangled to death afterwards. The bodies are carried out of the apartment into a van and driven off towards a desolate spot at the boarding of the Elbe river outside Hamburg, 1 kilometer north of Borstel and disposed of into the river with a bag filled with stones tied to their feet. The 3 passports are now in the possession of the agents of the Mossad, who carried out the raid on the apartment and 3 Arabs have vanished without anybody knowing that they are dead. Not long after the raid the 3 passports are given to 3 Israeli agents who were selected on having some resemblance with the 3 Arabs just killed. They make for America soon afterwards in the summer of 2000 and start laying a trail at flight schools, posing with the stolen identities from the 3 Arabs killed. Years earlier the israeli Michael Goff working for PTech, an Arab owned software company that develops key enterprise software for many government institutions like NORAD and FAA, using his secure channel with another israeli Amit Yoran, somehow manages to give Israeli army computer programmers access to this critical computer code. It was due to this manipulation that the hijackings on 9/11 remained unnoticed by the flight controller of NORAD. Once this was in place the planes could be taken over by remote control and flown into the World Trade Center. The hijacking of airliners by remote control had been tested as a dress rehearsal for 9/11 on the Egypt Air flight 990 that crashed into the Atlantic on October 31, 1999. Now everything was in place to commit the crime of the century. On the day of 9/11 the Israeli stand-ins for the ‘Arab hijackers’ showed up at the predestined departure airports to make sure they were captured on surveillance camera’s. The crucial point here is that the security at both the departure airports was in hands of an Israeli firm Huntleigh-USA, a subsidiary of the Dutch based but Israeli owned ICTS led by a fellow named Menahem Atzmon. And this is crucial: Atzmon used to be a colleague of Olmert in 1998. So there you have the link between the 9/11 operative level (an airport security firm) and the highest level of Israeli politics. What happened on the morning of 9/11 was that after the Israeli stand-ins were captured on camera, they left the airport via a side entrance and the show could begin. Minutes after the planes became air born somebody somehow was able to send a signal to the planes, causing the control panels to be disabled and the flight destination altered. What happened was that an anti-hijack system was activated (code word ‘home run’) and the regular pilot was put out of control. This pilot will probably have tried frantically to regain control of his aircraft. It is not very likely he will have told his passengers about the new situation since that would only cause panic. The passengers probably suspected nothing and hence had no reason to make any phone calls to their relatives (which were not possible anyway). And while the 9/11 passengers unsuspecting travel towards their immanent deaths, on the ground from a war room Israeli agents carry out phone calls to relatives of the passengers that were still in the air, using voice morphing technology and caller-ID spoofing and thus planted the Arabs-did-it-deception in the public consciousness. The sound samples necessary to carry out the fake telephone calls had been obtained via the israeli infiltration of American telephone networks by Israeli firms like Amdocs and Verint. By the time that the passengers were puzzled as they discerned the New York sky line it was already too late. Meanwhile on the other side of the Hudson river the members of the Israeli team that planted the demolition charges were waiting for things to happen. And while the rest of New York experienced in horror the events that were unfolding that day, the demolition experts were celebrating and high-fiving. The plot had worked out magnificently. *** Please save this page to your local hard drive *** This blog is the verbal expression of an adaptive learning process. Please come back regularly. Core Argument Ok, I admit. Some elements in this story are speculative. I do not know for instance if Atta was killed in Germany or in America. But the story is an coherent educated speculation. It is an attempt to reconstruct the events of 9/11. Myriads of web sites exist that expose the inconsistencies in the official story, that obviously is a fraud. This story offers an integral explanation of what could have happened and in all likelihood more or less did happen at 9/11 as there can be hardly any doubt about who was behind 9/11 if one rejects the official story. Some elements remain vague, like what happened exactly to WTC7, flight77, flight93 or Mohamed Atta. But these questions are of academic interest only. It’s clear who was behind 9/11 and what happened in detail with WTC-1/2 and the planes. That is enough. Here’s where most people got killed. The rest of the plot can be uncovered by a tribunal. In order to prevent that you get swallowed up by yet another 10 meters of screen text here is the core of the argument. The story is based on 2 broadly accepted postulates: 1) WTC was brought down by controlled demolition 2) The ‘dancing Israelis’ on the morning of 9/11 had foreknowledge of things to come These 2 premises are enough to put the Official Conspiracy Theory (Arabs did it) out of business. Premise 2 leads to the preliminary conclusion that the Israelis had foreknowledge because they organized the attacks themselves. Since Israelis are not known to commit suicide attacks we have to assume that the airplanes that crashed into their destinations were remote controlled. If one accepts this as a working hypothesis than there is a lot, I mean really a lot, of material that supports this Israeli Conspiracy Theory that replaces the official Arab Conspiracy Theory. We have the dedicated Zionist Silverstein who leases the WTC complex and over insures it against terrorism (leading to a hansom profit); we know that security at all departure airports and ‘arrival airports’ (WTC) was in Israeli hands (Huntleigh-USA and Kroll Associates, resp.); we know that the owner of Huntleigh-USA, Menachem Atzmon, a convicted criminal, had strong ties to Ehud Olmert, that is the highest level of Israeli politics; we also know that the Israeli secret service can eavesdrop on virtually everybody in the USA via Israeli owned companies like Amdocs and Verint which gave the Mossad the possibility to obtain sound samples of future 9/11 passengers to apply voice morphing to in order to make the fake phone calls on 9/11. And of course there is Dov Zakheim, the real mastermind of 9/11 who was CEO of SPC for 4 years prior to 9/11, a company that produces systems for remote control of airplanes. The same Zakheim that was a member of the Zionist dominated PNAC group, that more or less plotted for a global American empire, and suggested that a ‘New Pearl Harbor‘ (page 51) could speed things up a bit; and finally the same Zakheim that 6 months before 9/11 became supervisor of a group of Pentagon comptrollers that had to sort out what had happened to the 2.3 trillion dollars that were missing from the Pentagon books; many of these comptrollers conveniently got killed on 9/11 and much of the financial data went with them. This is the core of the story. Note: I am not claiming that 9/11 is solved. Of this however we can be certain: WTC controlled demolition, Israelis carried out the operation, no Arab hijackers, mastermind Zakheim, motive PNAC & Clean Break and remote control. I do not care about flight77 or 93, those are details to be solved by crime investigators. The most pressing question is that of remote control: how was that done? Were the original flights 11 and 175 remote controlled themselves or was there a plane swap as some have suggested, including Bollyn? Disclaimer: nobody is guilty until convicted by a court of law. This blog’s intent is to stimulate thinking about 9/11 from a different angle than the official one. From day one the blame has been put at bin Laden and his people without real evidence. Today bin Laden is no longer persecuted for 9/11 according to the FBI website. The theory proposed here might be true or false or contain some truth. In the end it must be an official investigation that determines who is guilty and who is not. This blog is dedicated to Italian ex-president Cossiga who is the highest ranking statesman to date who has openly stated that it was the Mossad who has carried out the 9/11 attacks.
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#463. To: titorite (#462)
Keep thinking you know everything punk, it'll come back and bite you when you least expect it. What's rather pathetic is that you actually appear to believe the bullshit you're posting. So, which experts did the govt call? Experts that are worthy of the title? I'd settle for one name.
This reminds me of another pro Israel shill I debated some years back. When I cited Ha'aretz (Israel's largest newspaper) as a source his only reply was, "Well, Ha'aretz is losing subscribers", as if this was some measure of the paper's veracity. And he didn't explain why the fact that all print media are shrinking because of the internet wouldn't also account for a loss of subscribers. I was supposed to assume that any loss of subscribers was the result of the paper disagreeing with him on that point of contention before he ever took exception to it! I'd be interested to see the documentation and numbers to help define the term "few". And just who does that type of analysis, anyway?
Thank you for the diagnosis, Doctor! (You won't cry foul at the use of the word "you" here, will you? And, I couldn't help but notice the absence of any medical school training as a qualifier to post #310. In the absence of formal training, just how does one accrue experience at diagnosing crackpots with such certainty? (family history perhaps?) Christine's husband certainly has the medical degree to make such a diagnosis. Would a differing opinion from a psychologist carry any weight, or would his background also come under attack? Also, the promise to stick by the "flying telephone poles" theory and a phony resume in support of it will be great, if it's notarized and filed with the district court as an amicus curiae brief. I'm quite certain that won't happen, because the court may commit the individual who puts such an affidavit on the docket for an(other) involuntary, 90 day mental health evaluation.... Otherwise, it would appear that any future complaint about a loss of civility and lack of credentials would be meaningless gibberish from a poster with a murky agenda and questionable mental health. As a matter of law an unsworn rebuttal to sworn testimony is presumed to be incorrect (or worse) and the courts take no cognizance of it. And for the life of me I can't imagine why we should, either. And life experience can be factored out now that we're all forbidden to offer any credentials in support of our posts! This thread is now for folks who are steam rollered equally flat and stupid!
What's rather pathetic is that you actually appear to believe the bullshit you're posting. And now I'm a know it all punk.... Whatever man. I don't know it all but I do know that I can measure where the buildings are in the the various foregrounds and backrounds in relation to the smoke directions and plane trajectories. When all this is looked at and measured and compared the evidence shows massive divergence rather than a clear agreed upon event. I do believe what I post... I have spent years moving into decades, doing my own leg work, researching more and more about 911 ..... And you call me the know it all punk...... Seems I can't hold a candle to what you know Former Lurker... What can be said? May all of your propaganda be of the upmost entertainment for you. ____________________________________________________________ . . . The US government has declared civil war on itself. Its lust for war grew so great... Liberty before death. We run , we live, We fight again, till we win. We did not start this fight. We damn sure did not willingly pay our taxes to buy the bullets and drones that shall be used to kill us. We will correct the violations of this rogue nation....our rogue nation. We will fix this because nobody else can. You will work to help me help us all to fix this failure. After you're done educating yourself, Action!!!
Facts are now propaganda? The no plane position is not a serious position because it is utter BS. No serious 9/11 researcher agrees with it, not one! You are not a serious 9/11 researcher, you are a disinfo agent or a delusional nut. Saying there was no planes that hit the towers is similar to someone else saying there was no gunshot wound to Trayvon Martin, it was all smoke and mirrors, he is probably still alive somewhere. You aren't very bright to keep trying to stir racist crap up and then try very pitifully to push a no plane theory on a site like this. God is always good!
Not ONE of them claim to have witnessed NO SMOKE PLUMES, contradicting what was broadcast on television, live or recorded. The no planers are obviously no brainers trying to smear the 9/11 truth movement. They have derailed this thread numerous times with their no plane BS. This reminds me of Judy Woods' crackpot theory that there were rays from space that hit the towers causing them to explode. People like Judy Woods are obviously paid disinfo agents. I firmly believe Alex Jones is also in that camp. Tit might not be paid though, he might just be dumb enough to believe such nonsense. God is always good!
The reputable Israeli daily Ha'aretz reported that by the last week of October 2001, some six weeks after the men had been detained, Deputy Secretary of State Richard Armitage and two unidentified "prominent New York congressmen" were lobbying heavily for their release. According to a source at ABC News close to the 20/20 report, high-profile criminal lawyer Alan Dershowitz also stepped in as a negotiator on behalf of the men to smooth out differences with the U.S. government. (Dershowitz declined to comment for this article.) And so, at the end of November 2001, for reasons that only noted they had been working in the country illegally as movers, in violation of their visas, the men were flown home to Israel. I didn't post about Mukasey to refute your vague statement, nor because I don't think the State Department or any others throughout guv departments were involved. I posted it because you had posted nothing specific at all and no planers moved to ask for supporting evidence. Further expanding on the research: Excerpts from: The Dancing Israelis on 9-11 Steven Noah Gordon, a lawyer for the five, told The New York Times that their behaviour may have been offensive, but said the behaviour was not criminal — "and they were being treated as if it was." The five have since been deported. U.S. officials have offered no explanation for the arrests, even to immigration judges. Last month, when the INS asked that bail be denied to 11 of the Israelis, a judge rejected the request, saying the government had been less than forthcoming with evidence. Although the [INS] alleges that these cases are 'special,' it has failed to present any credible evidence of the basis for this finding," Judge Elizabeth Hacker wrote. "The service has failed to submit any evidence of terrorist activity or of a threat to national security." - The Globe & Mail [Wayback] The five were ordered deported Sept. 25 by an immigration judge after they acknowledged working here illegally. The Immigration and Naturalization Service would normally move expeditiously to deport them, but they have been caught up in the Bush administration’s effort to nab anyone even remotely connected with the terror attacks. The five Israelis were held at the Metropolitan Detention Center in Brooklyn, ostensibly for overstaying their tourist visas and working in the United States illegally. Two weeks after their arrest, an immigration judge ordered them to be deported. But sources told ABCNEWS that FBI and CIA officials in Washington put a hold on the case. Both the lawyers for the young men and the Israeli Embassy chalk it up to immature conduct. You might want to retract your assertion now that they bypassed judges in their release. ------- "They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
Dov Zakheim, another infamous name associated with 9-11. "When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall, one by one." Edmund Burke
None of them went in front of a judge in relation to their roles in 9/11, espionage, and violations of various laws such as possession of explosives (reportedly tons) packed in one of those white vans, along with actually BLOWING UP a van on King Street in NYC which had been painted with a mural depicting an airliner crashing into the WTC. So that's what I was talking about, not whether their visas had expired or they jaywalked somewhere. Mukasey was not an Immigration judge, and it is he you were saying was the one who freed those Israelis. So that's what I was talking about, not whether their visas had expired or they jaywalked somewhere. Mukasey was not an Immigration judge, and it is he you were saying was the one who freed those Israelis. No, you are misconstruing again. I posted info at #425 which stated that Mukasey played a critical role in sending the Mossad agents arrested on 9/11 to Israel, not the critical role as if he did it himself. At #427, you said: "Those agents never went before a judge of any type," and your evidence for that is still zero. At #444, you assert unsourced: "There is a WIDE range of reports which mention Chertoff as the person who effected the release of the Israelis apprehended on or after 9/11."; as if the wide range of reports which mention Mukasey-involvement don't count or somehow need more evidence than the zilch you presented on the subject -- and that was the point of my initial post on the matter in the first place: to show the evidentiary double standard that is expected to be higher for No Planes posters than for Planers. Thanks for proving my point again. Additionally, although Judge Hacker (who commented in the above referenced article) is an Immigration judge, she isn't even of the New York jurisdiction. There were many more Israeli suspects, besides the 5 Dancing Israelis in New York, who were also arrested and incarcerated then in other states as well. Some of the suspects were being held on Immigration charges but that wasn't what they were all being held for only, even if the Dancing Israelis were eventually deported for Immigration violations. iirc, some were stopped around Chicago with a map of the Sears Tower, etc.) The 5 Dancing Israelis were being held in the Metropolitan Detention Center in Brooklyn, which is a Federal Prison facility. It serves both the Eastern and the Southern U.S. District Courts of New York and Mukasey was a judge of the United States District Court for the Southern District of New York at the time (term: 1987-2006). Also: Hellerstein (term: 1998-2011). More on Hellerstein, Mukasey, and Chertoff in another post but first a bit more on Mukasey: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Mukasey More on the 9/11 Dancing Israelis and others: LEST WE FORGET–Dozens of Israeli Jews Being Kept in Federal Detention « The Ugly Truth ”We think there are about 50 in detention now, in San Diego, Houston, Kansas City, St. Louis and Cleveland, and there are some who have been released,” said Ido Aharoni, a spokesman for the Israeli consulate in New York. ”It’s not easy to get an exact count. Who Destroyed the WTC? (Connect the dots) -- Memorial Day, 2008 Edited paragraph 1 + spelling and spacing. ------- "They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
From: Michael Mukasey - Wikipedia Pic: President George W. Bush listens to remarks by Judge Michael Mukasey after announcing his nomination to be Attorney General. From: Urban Moving Systems: the US-Israeli 9/11 Financial Nexus Chertoff’s synagogue buddy, Michael Bernard Mukasey - an Orthodox Jew, was appointed by Bush as US Attorney General in 2007. [sic] take the 5 Israelis who were investigated by the FBI for their role in the 9-11 travesty but were allowed to return to Israel in late 2001. It was Michael Chertoff, then head of the US Justice Department’s criminal division & Talmudic Jew - Michael Mukasey, then Federal District Chief judge for New York in Manhattan, who gave the order...OBSTRUCTION OF JUSTICE BY ZIONIST JEWS [sic] The FBI had come under intense pressure from several congressmen and various pro-Israel groups to release the Israelis. The order to free them came from Michael Chertoff & Judge Michael Mukasey. An FBI investigator noted, “Leads were not fully investigated” due to pressure from “higher echelons.” [sic] The FBI had come under intense pressure from several congressmen and various pro- Israel groups to release the Israelis. The order to free them came from Michael Chertoff & Judge Michael Mukasey. An FBI investigator noted, “Leads were not fully investigated” due to pressure from “higher echelons.” [sic] In the days after the attacks, Mukasey worked behind closed doors seeing some of the first material witnesses detained by Federal authorities. These would have included the “five dancing Israelis” From: 9- 11: Israel’s Masterpiece - Lost Scribe Media Michael Mukasey along with Michael Chertoff, both key suspects in the 9/11 cover-up, also worked hand and glove in the first false flag bombing of the WTC in 1993. [My note: See also prior info posted earlier on Zakheim and Tridata, a subsidiary of his SPC/Systems Planning Corporation re: WTC '93 investigation tampering.] Chertoff was the lead prosecutor and Mukasey was the judge presiding over the fraudulent trial of the “Blind Sheikh”, Omar Abdel Rahman in the aftermath of the false flag bombing at WTC in 1993. The “Blind Sheikh” at the beginning of the trial asked Mukasey to remove himself from the trial given his severe bias towards the state of Israel. Mukasey, who had not permitted the “blind sheikh” the services of his choice of attorney and who also prevented the “blind sheikh” from his due process denying him the right to have an expert witness explain Islam to the ignorant jury, curtly refused this motion from the defendant. After his sentencing, the “Blind Sheikh”, among other anomalies and inconsistencies of the prosecution’s case, patiently explained that it was impossible for him to form a terrorist group while being incarcerated thousands of miles away during its creation. He was repeatedly and rudely interrupted by an irate and indignant Mukasey as the sheikh painstakingly debunked the fraudulent proceedings of the trial. In the 9/11 attacks Mukasey’s role was multifaceted. He oversaw the detained witnesses and suspects including the 5 dancing Israeli Mossad agents at the behest of then Assistant Attorney General at the Department of Justice, Michael Chertoff, the son of a founding member of the Mossad. Edited to add a link for Zakheim info at Post #425. ------- "They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
BTP Holdings: Dov Zakheim, another infamous name associated with 9-11. Excerpt from: www.goodnewsaboutgod.com/studies/political/newworld_order/real_path.htm ------- "They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
Edited to add a link for Zakheim info at Post #425. ------- Appears we at 4um have far better investigative skills than the FBI and the New York Times and CBS. Funny that? Michael Chertoff - Wikipedia under Attorney General John Ashcroft. Chertoff Denies Knowing Who Authorized Destruction of 9-11 Steel -- Christopher Bollyn | March 9, 2011 Chertoff responded the same day: No. No idea. Other questions unanswered: Why did President Bush and Attorney General Ashcroft allow Mayor Giuliani to “take over the cleanup operation”? ------- "They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
Funny that? I can't say as it's funny so much as disconcerting. ------- "They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
I'm not saying, nor I have I said, that Mukasey did not have a hand in the release of those Mossad agents. I have said that there isn't much info on what role he played, if any.. If you check your source of the info you posted, there is no reference to where the author obtained his info, other than from other blogs and forums. Your reference is in fact the Prison Planet forum, where anyone can write anything they want. The quote from your post above comes from a blog called "lostscribemedia", which although does contain some verifiable data, also contains info which is unsourced. Regardless of Mukasey's role, neither he nor Chertoff could have effected their release on their own, they had to have higher authorization to do so. In other words, the ultimate decision would had have to been made at the top, being GW Bush, Dick Cheney, and Cabinet level individuals. If the release was unauthorized by higher authority, neither Mukasey nor Chertoff would have been promoted to higher positions, yet they both were, with Chertoff being promoted to Secretary of Homeland Security, and Mukasey being promoted to US Attorney General under Bush. And if we check your alleged wide range of report sources on Chertoff...oops. They aren't here. How many times do you want to prove my point about evidentiary double standards? Give it a rest so we can agree without backtracking that the release had to be authorized by Ashcroft, other Cabinet level persons, and higher. Btw, I reviewed the smoke trajectory issue again with some thought on your perspective, as I said I would, and that just doesn't explain the smoke going in opposite directions but Media Fakery does. Edited last sentence of paragraph 1. ------- "They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
So ok, details are sketchy on BOTH Chertoff's and Mukasey's role in the release of those Israelis. What started out as a quick response from me to tom007, one which was as accurate as can be logically determined, has ended up being a full blown pissing contest over something that really doesn't prove one thing or another, other than there are unsourced reports floating around which point the finger to both individuals. You are the one who started pointing fingers at ME, for not being detailed enough. What it comes to is that you've been nitpicking and pouncing on me over things which neither you nor I can actually say is definitive proof, yet, you act like you are the master of all that is true, even though you can't admit that you are full of it in terms of which direction the smoke was blowing from the WTC towers on the morning of 9/11/2001, even with clear evidence that ALL original videos show the smoke moving to the southeast. Or are you ALSO claiming that there were NO smoke plumes that morning? Sheesh, one might almost think that you're here to waste people's time and drive them away from any REAL facts. And BTW genius, nowhere have I said that "perspective" had anything to do with the direction of the smoke. I said it was difficult to determine DISTANCE of foreground and background objects in relation to each other due to the distance of the observer to the WTC and the amount of zoom applied. There is NO question as to the direction of the smoke plumes in ANY of the videos posted, except for the doctored video you and titorite posted where it is clear the video has been edited to eliminate the smoke plume then overlay the smoke in a progressive step enlargement, and then claim that is "evidence" of ALL videos of the WTC to be fake. Yeah it was doctored alright, by the person who edited it then claimed it was doctored. Same to you, FL. ------- "They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
Yes, there is, and the comparisons were MSM clips. ------- "They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
Nothing like beating a dead horse, eh? I have proven to you repeatedly that you are wrong. You have NOT been able to refute the evidence I cited, and like any common shillster, claim victory after you've lost the argument. Again, point out even ONE LEGITIMATE ORIGINAL clip where the smoke is NOT travelling southeast. By legitimate, I mean one which has not been doctored to prove it was doctored. You have made it your mission in life to discredit anything I post. I've been posting on this forum, LP, and FreeRepublic, over the course of 14 years or so. I've posted on topics such as TWA800, OKC, Waco, RubyRidge, 9/11, the Iraq war, amongst other things. In all cases I've provided factual and scientific evidence and analysis showing how the government stories are false. I at times give my opinion, and sometimes I make mistakes as does anyone, but if I make a factual error I admit it as such and correct it. Yet you hammer on me personally as if I were posting fraudulent info, all the while posting fraudulent videos yourself, mixed in with a tad bit of truth, just as some people claim Alex Jones does, amongst others. You are really making me think you are getting rewarded for your efforts. Bullshit. You can't even admit the film in front of you has two different images instead insisting that the explanation for the different images is just illusions of perspectives... That is total bullshit. But so what. You have your opinion and we have ours ..... Denouncing no planers as the enemy just makes more enemies. And it looks as though that is your intent, to create as many adversaries as possible for yourself. Also you have completely failed to show an understanding of the dynamics of flight..... I mean after all this time , over ten years, you did not know about the wake vortex effect of planes....and thats all planes not just jets. I knew about the primary and secondary radar systems... the spam of info you provided earlier shown little different information then when I first began researching... then again it came from .gov sources.... Why would you quote .gov sources as authoritative when regarding 911.... thats like asking the fox if the hens are safe. Mind blowing... here we are supposed to be opposing the government line and here you are quoting it for arguments sake. Bad form .... but then again your form has suffered all over this thread. ____________________________________________________________ . . . The US government has declared civil war on itself. Its lust for war grew so great... Liberty before death. We run , we live, We fight again, till we win. We did not start this fight. We damn sure did not willingly pay our taxes to buy the bullets and drones that shall be used to kill us. We will correct the violations of this rogue nation....our rogue nation. We will fix this because nobody else can. You will work to help me help us all to fix this failure. After you're done educating yourself, Action!!!
You can't even specify WHICH video you are talking about. Do you mean the fraudulent video you posted which was doctored to make it look doctored? Like I've said more times than I should need to, ALL legitimate videos indicate the smoke plumes were traveling southeast. As far as your idiotic "vortex" BS, you would only see that with smoke generators on the wing tips, or if the plane were to travel through a puff of smoke, neither of which occured on 9/11. What your lunatic behavior has accomplished is that you've alienated more than a few I would imagine, both from reading anything EITHER of us post, AND from reading anything concerning 9/11 "truth", since it's apparent there are some REAL fucking wackjobs claiming to be "truthers". To a person with limited time, there are more important things to be doing. Oh and as far as the radar info I posted it was to educate those unfamiliar with the important aspects concerning the 9/11 data. You couldn't tell me the difference between primary and secondary, even with the data posted in plain view. NOW you say you know the difference. Ok, so what IS the difference, just to demontrate that you DO actually know which one is which, and what each one is used for, and how it needs to be considered when evaluating the 9/11 data? I've delt with people such of the both of you in my past. They've used names such as BeAChooser, yukon, ByteShredder, TomB, sinkspur, and a whole bunch of others. The more you post, the more I see the similarity in your tactics. The more you post, the more I see the similarity in your tactics. Bullshit. Former YOU are the one arguing from the playbook of the tactics of disinformation to wage your debate. At the end of the day it is still your mind flowing along the paths that have been selected for you. Also Yukon never did shit but suck dick so fuck you for comparing him to us or better yet go fuck yukon. ;) And another thing.. you have plenty of time on your hands former... you are either disabled, retired, or a child. Which is it? ____________________________________________________________ . . . The US government has declared civil war on itself. Its lust for war grew so great... Liberty before death. We run , we live, We fight again, till we win. We did not start this fight. We damn sure did not willingly pay our taxes to buy the bullets and drones that shall be used to kill us. We will correct the violations of this rogue nation....our rogue nation. We will fix this because nobody else can. You will work to help me help us all to fix this failure. After you're done educating yourself, Action!!!
I could tell you the difference....Their was no need though since you copied and pasted web page after web page with nary a glance at the BS you were posting and obviously no thought about your sources...regardless I and everyone here could read them... Although I would bet the only people reading this shit now is just us three or four. Still, it is hypocritical to argue against government conspiracy in favour of your own pet theory with government sources as your citations of evidence. But whatever it's your phoney strawman argument. Your disinformation tactics. IT IS ALL THAT YOU ARE DOING NOW and it is obvious. When you dip into that pool you sully yourself. Fuck you. ____________________________________________________________ . . . The US government has declared civil war on itself. Its lust for war grew so great... Liberty before death. We run , we live, We fight again, till we win. We did not start this fight. We damn sure did not willingly pay our taxes to buy the bullets and drones that shall be used to kill us. We will correct the violations of this rogue nation....our rogue nation. We will fix this because nobody else can. You will work to help me help us all to fix this failure. After you're done educating yourself, Action!!!
RIIIIIIIGHT... I guess the crash magically negated the wake. Why not? ____________________________________________________________ . . . The US government has declared civil war on itself. Its lust for war grew so great... Liberty before death. We run , we live, We fight again, till we win. We did not start this fight. We damn sure did not willingly pay our taxes to buy the bullets and drones that shall be used to kill us. We will correct the violations of this rogue nation....our rogue nation. We will fix this because nobody else can. You will work to help me help us all to fix this failure. After you're done educating yourself, Action!!!
You still can't do anything except spew obscenities and make accusations. You STILL can't tell me what the difference is between primary and secondary radar, and how it relates to the 9/11 radar data. And you STILL can't refute the video evidence that ALL smoke plumes travelled southeast from the WTC North Tower prior to the impact of the 2nd plane. Then you turn around and say I'M the one using disinfo tactics. A big FU back to you slick. It is only you saying that. You won't see a "wake" if there is no smoke to cause a wake to be seen. You can't see air, and no matter how hard you stomp your feet, that is a fact. Yes . It is conclusion that demands a response. And that's where the disconserting part comes in. You obviously do not understand..... Let me make it simpler. In a boat the wake follows it. I'll assume you have seen a boat and its wake. Now if that boat crashes ashore at high speed, it's wake does not magically vanish simply because it crashed ashore.... The water wake will continue to lap onto land. Waves floating outward into dissipation.... The wake has to expend it's energy and does not come to such an abrupt stop as the thing that made it. All planes make a wake just like all boats make a wake.It is Not Smoke that causes the wake. It is the flow of air over the wings .... Just because a plane crashes into a building does not magically negate the wake. ... The explosions in both towers and at the pentagon should have all swirled in the wake vortex till the vortex effect dissipated. The fact that their is a no discernible wake vortex is one of the many inconsistencies of 911... One of the most galling. Most obvious mistakes. IN later releases of the alleged events the explosion shape might chage along with peoples resolution...... Did you ever notice that and question it? That day the news media had some shitty resolution on the cameras... years go by home amateurs occasionally release vids and their copies always seem to be clearer and of higher resolution.... funny that. Oh and your primary secondary radar bullshit is just straw man tactics... I know the difference.You just repeating over and over and over that I do not know the difference.... well that is just you trying to take attention away from what some of us are trying say and attempting to direct to other topics that are not related to a lack of planes. You'll even spam the fuck out of this thread to knock our words off the page. It is completely ridiculous. Repeating the lie 1,000 will never turn the lie into truth. George Bush told you to never tolerate outrageous conspiracy theories. When one has ruled out every other possibility, what ever you are left with, no matter how improbable is the truth. ____________________________________________________________ . . . The US government has declared civil war on itself. Its lust for war grew so great... Liberty before death. We run , we live, We fight again, till we win. We did not start this fight. We damn sure did not willingly pay our taxes to buy the bullets and drones that shall be used to kill us. We will correct the violations of this rogue nation....our rogue nation. We will fix this because nobody else can. You will work to help me help us all to fix this failure. After you're done educating yourself, Action!!!
Osama bin Laden was a patsy in 9-11. ;)
"When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall, one by one." Edmund Burke
ON this I think we can all agree. ____________________________________________________________ . . . The US government has declared civil war on itself. Its lust for war grew so great... Liberty before death. We run , we live, We fight again, till we win. We did not start this fight. We damn sure did not willingly pay our taxes to buy the bullets and drones that shall be used to kill us. We will correct the violations of this rogue nation....our rogue nation. We will fix this because nobody else can. You will work to help me help us all to fix this failure. After you're done educating yourself, Action!!!
Yes and I wanted to be Mr 500.
What do you not understand about not being able to see air? You are claiming that planes leave visible wakes in the air just like boats do in water. Do you really believe that? Have you never seen planes before? As far as the difference between primary and secondary radar, are you admitting that you can't briefly explain the difference nor why it mattters in regards to the 9/11 radar data? As far as the difference between primary and secondary radar, are you admitting that you can't briefly explain the difference nor why it mattters in regards to the 9/11 radar data? I dislike the whole radar thing because the data data has changed over the years.... the information updated and redacted and altered.... I mean that was a pin point teeny tiny hole you showed in your radar pick several several posts back.... One that did not exists in 9/12/01 Meh.... Perhaps it would be better if I just say you know more about it than I do. I can say ok and you can say ok and we can drop the matter as you knowing more about that particular aspect of this event. Fair enough? Now then The wake vortex effect is present regardless of the smoke. It is an effect of the movement of air over and under the wing of a plane. When the slower and faster moving air meet on the other side of the wing the two currents make lift and vortex. It doesn't matter if it is a prop plane or a jet. The movement of the air over and under the wing makes the effect. You can see the wake vortex effect on Formula F1 racing cars too. Off their spoiler wings. It is not as dramatic or long lasting as an air plane wake. It follows the plane regardless.... It can drag cars ... their air videos on youtube of cars parking too close to runways... planes land fine , no visible smoke to observe but lots and lots of wind.... enough to tumble a taxi cab over and over.... the wake vortex. IT is a very physical after/side effect of air movement over and under a wing. IF you can not observe it then nothing is their to cause it.....In all of the explosions and the resulting smoke aftewards ... fire should of swirled and smoke should of swirled, all that paper confetti we saw falling from the sky probable should of swirled ...... after impact it would of been like a horizontal tornado for about five minutes or so with the worst turbulence proly being in the first few minutes after impact .... IF it is not observable in the original footage then nothing was there to cause it. ____________________________________________________________ . . . The US government has declared civil war on itself. Its lust for war grew so great... Liberty before death. We run , we live, We fight again, till we win. We did not start this fight. We damn sure did not willingly pay our taxes to buy the bullets and drones that shall be used to kill us. We will correct the violations of this rogue nation....our rogue nation. We will fix this because nobody else can. You will work to help me help us all to fix this failure. After you're done educating yourself, Action!!!
IT is a very physical after/side effect of air movement over and under a wing. It's obvious you've never seen a plane fly, were never at an airport, and have never looked up the matter in any seriousness. I was stationed at a Marine Corp Air Station and saw jets take off and land each day, besides having flown quite often myself. Not once have I ever seen a "wake", except for the hot engine exhaust of a jet when taxiing or taking off. But no, there IS no visible "vortex", even though one may exist, UNLESS there are smoke generators on the wing tips or the plane is passing through smoke. Even clouds don't display that behavior, as I've never seen visibile wakes from planes passing in and out of clouds. In other words, you are chasing a red herring, and basing your argument upon it.
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"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#464. To: Cynicom, randge, christine (#304)
Utterly amazing that the government never called him as an expert witness, unless of course they suspected he was a bit of a bullshit artist.
#465. To: Cynicom, randge, christine (#306)
I read his claim long ago and few people bought into it.
#466. To: Cynicom, randge, christine (#310)
John Lear is a crackpot,
#467. To: FormerLurker (#463)
Keep thinking you know everything punk, it'll come back and bite you when you least expect it.
#468. To: titorite (#467)
May all of your propaganda be of the upmost entertainment for you.
#469. To: FormerLurker (#461)
(Edited)
Every single lucid person in NYC and surrounding areas could see that smoke that morning, matching what they were seeing on live TV if they were in their home or in a public place with a TV set. Others who were at work, in transit, or there as tourists could see the smoke plumes as well.
#470. To: FormerLurker, *9-11* (#455)
Oh and BTW, here's evidence the State Department was involved in the release of those spies...
From What Did Israel Know in Advance of the 9/11 Attacks?
Sivan, who had the camera, had planned to fly to India on Sept. 14 to meet friends there.” – Jewish Week (11/02/01)
#471. To: GreyLmist (#425)
Rabbi Zakheim
#472. To: GreyLmist (#470)
(Edited)
You might want to retract your assertion now that they bypassed judges in their release.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#473. To: FormerLurker, *9-11* (#472)
(Edited)
None of them went in front of a judge in relation to their roles in 9/11, espionage, and violations of various laws such as possession of explosives (reportedly tons) packed in one of those white vans, along with actually BLOWING UP a van on King Street in NYC which had been painted with a mural depicting an airliner crashing into the WTC.
On October 14, 2004, citing U.S. Supreme Court precedent, Mukasey reversed his September 2002 decision and dismissed a case in which plaintiffs in twenty consolidated actions sued the Italian insurance company Generali S.p.A. (Generali), seeking damages for nonpayment of insurance proceeds to beneficiaries of policies purchased by Holocaust victims before the end of World War II.[23] In so ruling, Mukasey gave deference to "a federal executive branch policy favoring voluntary resolution of Holocaust-era insurance claims."[24]
some have been kept in detention by the Immigration and Naturalization Service for nearly a month. In some cases, the immigration service has invoked special post-Sept. 11 laws to keep the Israelis in jail but presented no evidence of a link to the terrorism investigation.
Four of the Israelis, arrested on 9-11 for celebrating the mass murder of thousands of Americans, filed a multimillion dollar lawsuit against the US Justice Department, claiming they were arrested illegally, then held without charge and interrogated and tortured for months. [sic] After Sept. 11 over 100 young Israeli "art students", illegally in the country and spying all across America, were quietly ordered "deported" to Israel by a high American official [Chertoff again?]. [Have they filed suit against US, too?]
#474. To: All, *9-11* (#473)
(Edited)
More on Hellerstein, Mukasey, and Chertoff in another post
In 1987, Mukasey was nominated as a federal district judge for the Southern District of New York in Manhattan by President Ronald Reagan; he took the bench in 1988. He served in that position for 18 years, including tenure as Chief Judge from March 2000[19] through July 2006.[20]
Beginning in 2001, Michael Chertoff - the son of a Talmudic rabbi - was head of the criminal division of the US Justice Department. In 2005 President Bush nominated Chertoff as Secretary of US Homeland Security.
Alvin K Hellerstein and Michael Mukasey have been the Israeli connected, Talmudic tag-team of NY federal judges that have dominated 9/11 related litigation. [sic] Hellerstein and Mukasey just so happen to attend the exact same Orthodox, Zionist, Kehilath Jeshrun synagogue in Manhattan. The synagogue openly states that it is “deeply committed to the State of Israel and its citizens.” [sic]
#475. To: BTP Holdings (#471)
Me: Rabbi Zakheim
[Zakheim] was very familiar with WTC structures, infrastructures, and security arrangements from his involvement with SPC Subsidiary TRIDATA CORPORATION that oversaw 1993 WTC explosion related investigation and auditing.
#476. To: GreyLmist, formerlurker (#474)
In the 9/11 attacks Mukasey’s role was multifaceted. He oversaw the detained witnesses and suspects including the 5 dancing Israeli Mossad agents at the behest of then Assistant Attorney General at the Department of Justice, Michael Chertoff, the son of a founding member of the Mossad.
"Satan / Cheney in "08" 
#477. To: All (#474)
Assistant Attorney General at the Department of Justice, Michael Chertoff, the son of a founding member of the Mossad.
From 2001 to 2003, he headed the criminal division of the Department of Justice,
Did you give the permission to send the steel from the World Trade Center to the scrap yard? If you did not authorize the destruction of the steel, who did?
Can you tell me why U.S. Attorney General John Ashcroft and the Criminal Division of the Department of Justice, which you headed, allowed Mayor Giuliani to “seize control” of the crime scene and make decisions that resulted in the hasty destruction of crucial evidence before it could be properly examined?
#478. To: tom007 (#476)
Appears we at 4um have far better investigative skills than the FBI and the New York Times and CBS.
#479. To: GreyLmist (#474)
(Edited)
In the 9/11 attacks Mukasey’s role was multifaceted. He oversaw the detained witnesses and suspects including the 5 dancing Israeli Mossad agents at the behest of then Assistant Attorney General at the Department of Justice, Michael Chertoff, the son of a founding member of the Mossad.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#480. To: FormerLurker, *9-11*, *No Planers* (#479)
(Edited)
#481. To: GreyLmist (#480)
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#482. To: GreyLmist (#480)
(Edited)
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#483. To: FormerLurker (#481)
Sheesh, one might almost think that you're here to waste people's time and drive them away from any REAL facts.
#484. To: FormerLurker (#482)
There is NO question as to the direction of the smoke plumes in ANY of the videos posted
#485. To: GreyLmist (#484)
Yes, there is, and the comparisons were MSM clips.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#486. To: GreyLmist (#483)
Same to you, FL.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#487. To: FormerLurker (#486)
#488. To: titorite (#487)
You can't even admit the film in front of you has two different images instead insisting that the explanation for the different images is just illusions of perspectives...
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#489. To: titorite (#487)
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#490. To: titorite, GreyLmist (#487)
(Edited)
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#491. To: FormerLurker (#490)
(Edited)
I've delt with people such of the both of you in my past. They've used names such as BeAChooser, yukon, ByteShredder, TomB, sinkspur, and a whole bunch of others.
#492. To: FormerLurker (#489)
(Edited)
#493. To: FormerLurker (#488)
As far as your idiotic "vortex" BS, you would only see that with smoke generators on the wing tips, or if the plane were to travel through a puff of smoke, neither of which occured on 9/11.
#494. To: titorite (#492)
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#495. To: titorite (#493)
I guess the crash magically negated the wake. Why not?
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#496. To: GreyLmist (#478)
I can't say as it's funny so much as disconcerting.
"Satan / Cheney in "08"
#497. To: FormerLurker (#495)
(Edited)
It is only you saying that. You won't see a "wake" if there is no smoke to cause a wake to be seen. You can't see air, and no matter how hard you stomp your feet, that is a fact.
#498. To: GreyLmist (#425)
#499. To: BTP Holdings (#498)
Osama bin Laden was a patsy in 9-11. ;)
#500. To: titorite (#499)
"Satan / Cheney in "08"
#501. To: titorite (#497)
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#502. To: FormerLurker (#501)
(Edited)
What do you not understand about not being able to see air? You are claiming that planes leave visible wakes in the air just like boats do in water. Do you really believe that? Have you never seen planes before?
#503. To: titorite (#502)
It follows the plane regardless.... It can drag cars ... their air videos on youtube of cars parking too close to runways... planes land fine , no visible smoke to observe but lots and lots of wind.... enough to tumble a taxi cab over and over.... the wake vortex.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
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