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Title: How 9/11 Was Done
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URL Source: http://physics911.net/how-911-was-done/
Published: Sep 3, 2012
Author: http://physics911.net/how-911-was-done/
Post Date: 2012-09-03 14:09:24 by tom007
Keywords: None
Views: 18855
Comments: 674
How 9/11 Was Done For additional notes see the accompanying blog 911notes.blogspot.com. Prologue Read the following two screens of text to learn what happened at 9/11. 9/11 was a master plot, concocted by a handfull of Israelis and dual passport Americans and carried out by the resources of the Mossad. Larry Silverstein leases a nearly worthless dinosaur WTC building complex (worthless due to the asbestos the buildings were stuffed with and needed to be cleaned up, the cost of which may have rivaled the value of the buildings themselves) weeks before 9/11, makes sure it is over insured against terrorist acts and hires an Israeli security firm. From that moment on the coast is clear to let a team of demolition experts from the Israeli army led by Peer Segalovitz into the WTC buildings. These charges plus detonators had been prepared at the premises of the Urban Moving Systems company, a Mossad front. During the weeks before 9/11 these prepared charges were loaded into vans, driven into the basements of WTC Twin Towers next to the elevator shaft, unloaded into the elevator, and lifted onto the roof of the elevator through the opening in the elevator ceiling. Next the elevator moved from floor to floor while charges where being attached to the columns as displayed in this video from 0:22 onwards. The detonators of these charges were radiographic controlled and finally detonated from WTC7 on the day of 9/11. Fast backward, Hamburg 54 Marienstrasse, july 2000, 22:40. Mohamed Atta, Al Shehhi and Jarrah (who were later blamed of being the pilots of flight 11, 175 and 93 respectively), who share the apartment hear the ringing of the door bell. Jarrah opens the door, 5 masked men make their way into the apartment with drawn pistols. The 3 Arabs are forced to lay on the ground. Their passports are confiscated, next the 3 men are made unconscious with some liquid and strangled to death afterwards. The bodies are carried out of the apartment into a van and driven off towards a desolate spot at the boarding of the Elbe river outside Hamburg, 1 kilometer north of Borstel and disposed of into the river with a bag filled with stones tied to their feet. The 3 passports are now in the possession of the agents of the Mossad, who carried out the raid on the apartment and 3 Arabs have vanished without anybody knowing that they are dead. Not long after the raid the 3 passports are given to 3 Israeli agents who were selected on having some resemblance with the 3 Arabs just killed. They make for America soon afterwards in the summer of 2000 and start laying a trail at flight schools, posing with the stolen identities from the 3 Arabs killed. Years earlier the israeli Michael Goff working for PTech, an Arab owned software company that develops key enterprise software for many government institutions like NORAD and FAA, using his secure channel with another israeli Amit Yoran, somehow manages to give Israeli army computer programmers access to this critical computer code. It was due to this manipulation that the hijackings on 9/11 remained unnoticed by the flight controller of NORAD. Once this was in place the planes could be taken over by remote control and flown into the World Trade Center. The hijacking of airliners by remote control had been tested as a dress rehearsal for 9/11 on the Egypt Air flight 990 that crashed into the Atlantic on October 31, 1999. Now everything was in place to commit the crime of the century. On the day of 9/11 the Israeli stand-ins for the ‘Arab hijackers’ showed up at the predestined departure airports to make sure they were captured on surveillance camera’s. The crucial point here is that the security at both the departure airports was in hands of an Israeli firm Huntleigh-USA, a subsidiary of the Dutch based but Israeli owned ICTS led by a fellow named Menahem Atzmon. And this is crucial: Atzmon used to be a colleague of Olmert in 1998. So there you have the link between the 9/11 operative level (an airport security firm) and the highest level of Israeli politics. What happened on the morning of 9/11 was that after the Israeli stand-ins were captured on camera, they left the airport via a side entrance and the show could begin. Minutes after the planes became air born somebody somehow was able to send a signal to the planes, causing the control panels to be disabled and the flight destination altered. What happened was that an anti-hijack system was activated (code word ‘home run’) and the regular pilot was put out of control. This pilot will probably have tried frantically to regain control of his aircraft. It is not very likely he will have told his passengers about the new situation since that would only cause panic. The passengers probably suspected nothing and hence had no reason to make any phone calls to their relatives (which were not possible anyway). And while the 9/11 passengers unsuspecting travel towards their immanent deaths, on the ground from a war room Israeli agents carry out phone calls to relatives of the passengers that were still in the air, using voice morphing technology and caller-ID spoofing and thus planted the Arabs-did-it-deception in the public consciousness. The sound samples necessary to carry out the fake telephone calls had been obtained via the israeli infiltration of American telephone networks by Israeli firms like Amdocs and Verint. By the time that the passengers were puzzled as they discerned the New York sky line it was already too late. Meanwhile on the other side of the Hudson river the members of the Israeli team that planted the demolition charges were waiting for things to happen. And while the rest of New York experienced in horror the events that were unfolding that day, the demolition experts were celebrating and high-fiving. The plot had worked out magnificently. *** Please save this page to your local hard drive *** This blog is the verbal expression of an adaptive learning process. Please come back regularly. Core Argument Ok, I admit. Some elements in this story are speculative. I do not know for instance if Atta was killed in Germany or in America. But the story is an coherent educated speculation. It is an attempt to reconstruct the events of 9/11. Myriads of web sites exist that expose the inconsistencies in the official story, that obviously is a fraud. This story offers an integral explanation of what could have happened and in all likelihood more or less did happen at 9/11 as there can be hardly any doubt about who was behind 9/11 if one rejects the official story. Some elements remain vague, like what happened exactly to WTC7, flight77, flight93 or Mohamed Atta. But these questions are of academic interest only. It’s clear who was behind 9/11 and what happened in detail with WTC-1/2 and the planes. That is enough. Here’s where most people got killed. The rest of the plot can be uncovered by a tribunal. In order to prevent that you get swallowed up by yet another 10 meters of screen text here is the core of the argument. The story is based on 2 broadly accepted postulates: 1) WTC was brought down by controlled demolition 2) The ‘dancing Israelis’ on the morning of 9/11 had foreknowledge of things to come These 2 premises are enough to put the Official Conspiracy Theory (Arabs did it) out of business. Premise 2 leads to the preliminary conclusion that the Israelis had foreknowledge because they organized the attacks themselves. Since Israelis are not known to commit suicide attacks we have to assume that the airplanes that crashed into their destinations were remote controlled. If one accepts this as a working hypothesis than there is a lot, I mean really a lot, of material that supports this Israeli Conspiracy Theory that replaces the official Arab Conspiracy Theory. We have the dedicated Zionist Silverstein who leases the WTC complex and over insures it against terrorism (leading to a hansom profit); we know that security at all departure airports and ‘arrival airports’ (WTC) was in Israeli hands (Huntleigh-USA and Kroll Associates, resp.); we know that the owner of Huntleigh-USA, Menachem Atzmon, a convicted criminal, had strong ties to Ehud Olmert, that is the highest level of Israeli politics; we also know that the Israeli secret service can eavesdrop on virtually everybody in the USA via Israeli owned companies like Amdocs and Verint which gave the Mossad the possibility to obtain sound samples of future 9/11 passengers to apply voice morphing to in order to make the fake phone calls on 9/11. And of course there is Dov Zakheim, the real mastermind of 9/11 who was CEO of SPC for 4 years prior to 9/11, a company that produces systems for remote control of airplanes. The same Zakheim that was a member of the Zionist dominated PNAC group, that more or less plotted for a global American empire, and suggested that a ‘New Pearl Harbor‘ (page 51) could speed things up a bit; and finally the same Zakheim that 6 months before 9/11 became supervisor of a group of Pentagon comptrollers that had to sort out what had happened to the 2.3 trillion dollars that were missing from the Pentagon books; many of these comptrollers conveniently got killed on 9/11 and much of the financial data went with them. This is the core of the story. Note: I am not claiming that 9/11 is solved. Of this however we can be certain: WTC controlled demolition, Israelis carried out the operation, no Arab hijackers, mastermind Zakheim, motive PNAC & Clean Break and remote control. I do not care about flight77 or 93, those are details to be solved by crime investigators. The most pressing question is that of remote control: how was that done? Were the original flights 11 and 175 remote controlled themselves or was there a plane swap as some have suggested, including Bollyn? Disclaimer: nobody is guilty until convicted by a court of law. This blog’s intent is to stimulate thinking about 9/11 from a different angle than the official one. From day one the blame has been put at bin Laden and his people without real evidence. Today bin Laden is no longer persecuted for 9/11 according to the FBI website. The theory proposed here might be true or false or contain some truth. In the end it must be an official investigation that determines who is guilty and who is not. This blog is dedicated to Italian ex-president Cossiga who is the highest ranking statesman to date who has openly stated that it was the Mossad who has carried out the 9/11 attacks.
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#1. To: tom007 (#0)
Uhhhh, nahhhhhhh.
Uhhh, yeahhhh. Have you never heard of drones or UAVs? The technology DOES in fact exist (and did prior to 9/11/2001) to fly an airliner remotely. Here's a Boing 720 being flown remotely 17 years before 9/11/2001. Here's a bit more on the Dov Zakheim connection... My hypothesis is that the real planes were hijacked by remotely activated gas cannisters releasing knock out gas (or nerve gas) during flight, disabling or killing passengers and crew. Once the crew was disabled, the plane could be flown to wherever needed, possibily swapped in midair with those which would in fact fly into the towers and the Pentagon. In a swap scenario, a live pilot carrying a gas mask could have been a passenger on the original flight, putting the mask on a precise time. A gas mask may have been stashed under a seat by a ground crew member perhaps. Then the pilot could have flown the plane to a secure location, while the "terror" plane would have been flown to its target remotely. That would explain how those planes acquired that "pod" shown in the above video.
9/11 was flown by human hands.
9/11 was flown by human hands. And the proof of this assertion is? Because the Nightly Nooze said so? Because the White House Spokesliar said so? The U.S. Government has never provided one iota of solid information tying the 19 magickal Ayerabs nor Osama Bin Dead since 2001 to the events of 9/11/2001. None, nada, zeeeeeeeero. It has all been done by assertion and pronouncement repeated over and over and over. BUT, where's the beef?
Point of interest... In testimony by FAA radar controllers who were watching the aircraft on radar, they stated they considered the aircraft to being flown by someone of superior piloting skill because of the maneuvers executed. (humor) Of course the aircraft could have been flown by the American Captain, who was not aboard but rather sitting in a casino in Las Vegas, with a remote joy stick.) Hey, anything is possible, right????
There was no plane.
wud... If someone offers expert proof that there was NO Pentagon involved, I will give up. This is interesting as the government doles out disinformation to con the troops. "Ever since this "no-plane" theory has been planted on the 9-11 truth movement, the corporate media inevitably seizes on it as a means to ridicule those who do not accept the official story of 9-11. One obvious example is the March 2005 issue of Popular Mechanics, which used the "no-plane" theory to summarily dismiss any and all doubters of the official story as a munch of nuts that all correct-thinking loyal Americans should ever listen to. Which is what the no-plane hoax is intended to do".
That would all be true if.... There was a plane. There was no plane.
There were planes wud, just not the ones they were claimed to have been. In the case of the Pentagon, it more than likely was a cruise missile painted as an American Airlines 757.
freedom4um.com/cgi-bin/re...ArtNum=148199&Disp=64#C64
I didn't see one.
Did you ever personally see China wud? Just because YOU didn't see it doesn't mean it wasn't or isn't there.
Noone saw it. Except on tv.
You are in denial wud. It wasn't just captured on video by MANY news agencies, people in New York actually saw it happen live. That, and the witnesses in Washington saw SOME type of aircraft approaching the Pentagon.
You have what evidence that they "actually" saw it live? I guess a missle might have hit the pentagon, but there's little, if any, evidence of it.
I guess a missle might have hit the pentagon, but there's little, if any, evidence of it. Wud, I know you mean well. Please don't take it as an insult, but if you bothered doing any sort of research into 9/11 you'd know that it's 99.8% likely that planes hit the WTC towers, and some sort of cruise missile hit the Pentagon. If you contemplate the fact that those who are involved with the actual events of that day are actively covering up this information that we are talking about here with false paths, you'd consider the strong possibililty that the "no planes" idea is flat out improbable, unlikely, and more than likely one of those false leads. There is enough 100% pure scientific data to crucify the perps without jumping to questionable theories with little or no collaborating evidence. Sure, IF there were no planes well that'd be one hell of an exercise in deceipt on the part of hundreds of witnesses and news crews. But there is enough tangible evidence to demonstrate that the events of that day were in no way related to 19 Arab "terrorists", but were in fact part of a large scale military/espionage operation played out by the Israeli Mossad, Pakistani ISI, and the highest levels of the US government. There is no need to follow bizarre stories which do not follow logic or probability, and which have no basis in scientific reality.
Well said, but what evidence do you have that planes hit the wtc?
Do you have any bonafide evidence that all of the witnesses are lying and that all of the impact videos are faked? There is ample evidence indicating planes hit the towers. Eyewitnesses and video for starters. Entrance holes in the towers and exterior jet fuel explosions are next on the list.
There is ample evidence indicating planes hit the towers. Eyewitnesses and video for starters. Entrance holes in the towers and exterior jet fuel explosions are next on the list. Is it actually news to you that there is ample evidence online of alleged 9/11- witnesses lying, FL? That's a topic that's been discussed here before with evidence presented, I'm fairly sure, and I think it was also pointed out that none of them were under oath. Many were MSM, guv and Military employees (groups that are generally not viewed so unskeptically by the politically savvy as impeccable sources across-the-board in matters other than 9/11). Many were only ever "seen" or "heard from" in the form of printed words and could very possibly have been complete fabrications (so as to enhance the official storyline or for purposes of insurance fraud, for instance). Do you have any bonafide evidence that they are all actual persons who can be fully trusted and none are invented characters? Tania Head is one fake-witness person that even the MSM has aknowledged was fraudulent. Fake impact video, fake entrance holes in buildings that explode inward, exterior fuel explosions -- stuff of the film FX industry for many, many years that's like elementary to them. How about the WTC Towers and their bizarrely non-stick, teflon-pan-like surfaces?: No molten metal adhering to the building as it supposedly poured from windows. No significant damage to the side of the Tower that was closest to high- velocity projectiles and debris being propelled in its direction profusely from the adjacent one that went down first. Yet, we're told to believe that other buildings farther away in the WTC-complex vicinity were burned and destroyed from such. Why do Planes-believers typically hopscotch over simple observations of anomalies like that for more than decade, as if they can't see it or can just dismiss it out of hand by insistently asserting high-tech, glitch-free, remote control implementation or caveman-directed hijackers?
Is it news to you that there are limits to what is probable and what isn't? Do you think a significant part of the population of New York city would collectively lie about what they saw on 9/11? Were the fireballs faked too in your mind? How about the people jumping out of the towers, were they fake?
Do you think a significant part of the population of New York city would collectively lie about what they saw on 9/11? Yep, simple logic says if there were no planes then there would have been many, not just a few, but many people proclaiming that they saw and heard no planes. Where are these people? No planers are not thinking about the illogical points in their positions. Nuts. Even if somehow the government and media managed to pretend there were planes and keep people quite about it, I see no benefit to it to accomplish their plans. It would be much easier to just crash the planes into the buildings.
Exactly. It's one thing to suggest the videos MAY have been manipulated, but to state unequivocally that "no plane" hit the towers, with no real evidence of such a claim, is beyond reason. It ignores the fact that EVERY camera crew had to have known that what they were capturing on video was not what was being broadcast, and the reporters had to know they were fabricating a story out of thin air so to speak. There would have been a large number of people in the vicinity of the towers, looking up, who would have stated that they didn't see a plane but only an explosion in the 2nd tower. In reality, more than a few people witnessed the plane as it approached the tower, and a good number actually saw it impact. I am not aware of ANY actual witness who claims they saw the entrance hole appear for no reason, ie. nothing hit the tower. I HAVE read that survivors in the WTC actually saw the 2nd plane approach. Again, for the "no-plane" story to have any basis in fact, ALL of the news media on the scene would had to have been in on the scheme and executed their deception flawlessly, before, during, and after the event. It is MUCH easier to take control of an aircraft remotely and fly it into a tower, than to pull off such a large scale act of deception, where the world believes jet airliners hit the towers, yet in reality they were created in a studio and broadcast to the world in unison at the exact proper time, in league with every news crew and witness in the City of New York.
It's not really easier than CGI. Your main evidence of remote control seems to be that Zakheim is involved in it but he would have benefited from drone war contracts anyway without wasting expensive planes. The fact that the technology exists isn't evidence that it was used. You need to prove first that planes were used before asserting they were remote controlled. Alleged Flt. 93 suggests that it wasn't used in that scenario or was able to be over-ridden somehow.
You need to first prove planes were NOT involved, as that is what was reported, witnessed, and recorded on video. You would also need to prove a massive conspiracy involving the witnesses, news crews, and the networks where they prerecorded the WTC and superimposed the aircraft and the fireballs, along with the smoke, and have it match what was happening in real time on 9/11/2001. I don't think the technology exists even today to pull that off live, clean as a whistle with no signs of tampering.
You would also need to prove a massive conspiracy involving the witnesses, news crews, and the networks where they prerecorded the WTC and superimposed the aircraft and the fireballs, along with the smoke, and have it match what was happening in real time on 9/11/2001. I don't think the technology exists even today to pull that off live, clean as a whistle with no signs of tampering. The burden of proof isn't really on No Planes researchers to prove a negative 4 times. Nevertheless, that nearly impossible mathematical feat has already been demonstrated many times, here and elsewhere, for those willing to review the technical analysis of Videographers as well as that of Architects and Engineers, etc. Perhaps you're under your mistaken impression because of G.W. Bush's ploy to invade Iraq by demanding evidence of non-existent WMDs there. The burden of proof about planes is on those making the assertions of planes -- the government and those like you who extrapolate from it.
For starters, for your "idea" to be feasible, ALL network news stations, foreign news crews, and any bystander who happened to be looking at the towers would ALL had to have decided beforehand that they were going to hoodwink the world and produce the biggest fraudulent story of all time. You can start by telling me how these "news guys" had control of the population of New York City in order for everyone and anyone who witnessed the events to fall in line with their bogus video. You can also tell me HOW honest news reporters and camera men could be made to go along with such a lie. Incredible claims require incredibile evidence. It is not an incredible claim to state planes hit the towers, because that is what people saw, and what news cameras recorded. It IS an incredible claim to state that nothing like that actually happened, that is was all faked. Care to explain how those external fireballs were created, or were those "fake" too? How about the entrance holes, were they ALSO faked? Was the smoke faked? Were there even any explosives used, or were those fake too? Maybe the towers simply fell on their own, right? And BTW, care to post anything from Architects and Engineers for Truth which states there were no aircraft involved in the 9/11 attacks? One more thing. Your little GIF file tells a lie, in that the outer shell of the WTC towers was made of ALUMINUM, NOT STEEL. From World Trade Center Construction So are you willing to admit that the person who created that GIF file is lying and misleading his audience, and that you shouldn't try to use that as "evidence" of what it is you're selling here?
From World Trade Center Construction So are you willing to admit that the person who created that GIF file is lying and misleading his audience, and that you shouldn't try to use that as "evidence" of what it is you're selling here? Are you joking? The WTC buildings were made of steel by the tons. Are you insinuating that a thin, aluminum veneer means they weren't steel structures?; or that anodized aluminum would make it so an aluminum plane could possibly melt through the steely structure like the ABC "Butter Plane"? I hope not.
The CORE was steel, the FLOORS were concrete supported by steel, but the exterior skin was made of ALUMINUM and glass. Got a problem with that? Sure there were steel columns, but between those column was ALUMINUM. What it comes down to is that the outer walls were NOT solid steel. As far as an object travelling at high velocity, have you ever shot a gun? Lead is softer than steel, yet a high power rifle bullet such as a .308 will slice through steel as if it were butter. So no, it's not physically impossible for a high speed massive object to slice through glass, aluminum, and SOME steel columns.
Also this is incorrect. If it were correct, bullet proof vests would be useless and DU rounds would of never been engineered. Maybe if it is a wafer thin sheet of steel, maybe then it might rip through like butter....
Oh and BTW, DU rounds were invented in order to penetrate through heavily armored vehicles such as tanks.
As good as of a digression as that is I would still point out that all the planes in the news footage lack any discernible wake.... Which is not possible. Leaving the only other option no mater how unlikely... If their is no wake then their is no plane.... and that is to say nothing of the dare devil helicopter pilots that can fly through the fire smoke with out blowing the smoke everywhere..... Amazing that last part....
What do you mean "wake"? Boats leave wakes, not planes.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wake_turbulence or http://www.nasa.gov/centers/dryd...acts/TF-2004-14-DFRC.html or www.skybrary.aero/index.php/Wake_Vortex_Turbulence Did you tell someone else here to learn physics buster? ALSO when you say B) Yes it IS possible to "lose" radar contact if the transponder is turned off. There are blind spots in the radar grid, where if the plane is not chirping its transponder, and it is flying through a radar blind spot, it will not appear on FAA screens. You have not really done enough 911 research... US commercial craft are radar reflective, their are no blind spots on the east coast (never mind the rest of the US) and when A plane turns off it's transponder, the computer reading that transpondence tells every Air traffic controller monitoring the pertaining air space of the blip... so instead of the one jockey watching his plane EVERY jockey now gets to watch the plane. The system was set up to be full proof for a reason. You should get more intimate with it before shooting off at the hip. Alas..... You seem to have a closed made up mind and choose to exist here for the soul sake of argument against that which challenges your made up mind. I mean if it did not challenge you it would not bother you... wouldn't be worth a response.... so it is a challenge I suppose.... You .... been incorrect, a few times... which means your willing to go at this conversation from an emotional place of passion rather than logic. And you don't seem to be willing to pay attention to the details of anybodys postings in this thread beyond refuting them or ignoring them ...... the attempt at understanding is not being made on your part. Sad that.
Show me a vid where the plane flies through smoke smartass.
I gave you three different links already....the nasa link in particular should be good and instructive... Not my fault if you wont click a link..... HERE A plane flying through smoke
Hey bud, I mean Flight 175 (or whatever aircraft it actually was) which hit the South Tower, not some NASA plane in a demonstration of vortices. YOU are claiming that particular aircraft didn't leave a vortex. Well no shit, it WOULDN'T have if it didn't fly through smoke.
PHYSICS!!!!! THE WAKE FOLLOWS THE PLANE!!!! OMG Fire does not stop the wake vortex of a plane... AGAIN IF A PLANE CRASHES ITS WAKE VORTEX WILL FOLLOW IT INTO THE FIRE AND SWIRL IT UNTIL THEIR IS NO MORE FIRE OR THE WAKE DISSIPATES.. I hope the caps helped you catch what you seem to have missed previously.
So let's see. You believe that all the news reporters, camera crews, bystanders, firemen, police, television networks (US and foreign), conspired to fabricate a tale of planes striking the towers. They produced footage fabricated in a studio, and they all played along with the lie in real time as events unfolded. According to you, FAA controllers had positive identification and knew the whereabouts of the planes at all times, so they must have seen where the aircraft actually were, before and after the alleged impacts. So THEY must have been in on it too. And they did this all without anyone leaking any part of the plot, and they all pulled it off flawlessly. And oh yeah, it was all directed by bin Laden and his merry crew of 19 (some of whom are still alive to this day), because they hate our "freedom", right?
According to you, FAA controllers had positive identification and knew the whereabouts of the planes at all times, so they must have seen where the aircraft actually were, before and after the alleged impacts. So THEY must have been in on it too. And they did this all without anyone leaking any part of the plot, and they all pulled it off flawlessly. And oh yeah, it was all directed by bin Laden and his merry crew of 19 (some of whom are still alive to this day), because they hate our "freedom", right? OK I can no longer say you are incorrect.... Now you are just lying to be a jerk. Seriously. Putting words into other peoples mouths.. why... to laugh? to be sarcastic? to shoot them down? That is a form of lie. You are lying when you put words into other peoples mouths. Making up shit for lols... sheesh...... you know what fuck you. If you wanna believe in fairy tails and magical super planes thats fine but you could do every one else the favour of avoiding paraphrasing because you don't know who to do it honestly.
From Limit ations of FAA radar... Section 5. Surveillance Systems 4-5-1. Radar a. Capabilities 1. Radar is a method whereby radio waves are transmitted into the air and are then received when they have been reflected by an object in the path of the beam. Range is determined by measuring the time it takes (at the speed of light) for the radio wave to go out to the object and then return to the receiving antenna. The direction of a detected object from a radar site is determined by the position of the rotating antenna when the reflected portion of the radio wave is received. 2. More reliable maintenance and improved equipment have reduced radar system failures to a negligible factor. Most facilities actually have some components duplicated, one operating and another which immediately takes over when a malfunction occurs to the primary component. b. Limitations 1. It is very important for the aviation community to recognize the fact that there are limitations to radar service and that ATC controllers may not always be able to issue traffic advisories concerning aircraft which are not under ATC control and cannot be seen on radar. (See FIG 4-5-1.) FIG 4-5-1 Limitations to Radar Service
Ah man..... now you are just spamming bullshit about radars.... I doubt you read a single word of any of it... Just copypasta because you wanna be a rude dumb ass.......Too busy knowing it all to contemplate anything outside the TV Box parameters.. Hope it's cozy in those confines.
And here's a collection of impact videos of the South Tower. So all of this is fake in your eyes, right?
Those that want to call that fake, despite not having hardly any witnesses to back up their theory are just plain nuts or are not really truthers and are just trying to make the truth movement look bad. I suspect it is the latter.
Fuck you especially little shit. Lurker I like, you? not as much. I mean oh boy whoopide doo look at me I'm a truther... BIG DEAL! That is not changing the nation! That is not keeping our troops out of Libya, that is not freeing bradly manning, that is not restoring my megaupload files, and it is most definitely not winning us the civil war. truther is not a code word for rebel. Let us be blunt. We are designated terrorists already... I'd rather consider myself something else. And as a truther what "truth"? have you shared? Where? When? How far have you gone? meh... moot questions. Truth pah... so sick of that.... it is so much better to be a midnight activist. At least the effect is noticeable. Their were enough lives for one full plane... one full plane went else where.... god rest their souls. That crew passenger manifest got split up in paperwork and assigned to four fictitious paper planes. A few keystrokes and it is as easy as that. As Easy as hacking Diebold. The rest was real estate development , exotic weapon testing , and wholesale mass murder. Bad stuff. Understanding the facts of the matter, following the money, motives, claims, construction, destruction, really every feasible scientific aspect of the event, or at least attempting too, does not make me a shill or liar or anti truther, I am not trying to make any movement look bad... the truth movement is not moving anywhere. We live in the days of the occupation now. Get with the times. Truth is that it is on us to teach the truth to our children and protect them and ourselves from an insane pyscho government that has decided to obey laws and edicts of other nations as it has declared war on itself.... That is some scary shit. Fuck you for not grasping that. The US military is at this moment killing US citizens abroad..... possibly at home... we will not be properly informed about it anymore.... If that is not to be considered civil war then what is it.... waton murder of innocent people with out charge or trial or proper reason? No... as tax dollars are paying for it I'd call that war... www.npr.org/2012/03/06/14...drone-strikes-on-citizens See FM I can digress too. Just for Rickys sake though.
So you're now saying that the airlines were in it too? You actually believe that those flights never flew that day, and that those people never took off from the respective airports reported? I would have to say that's one of the nuttier things I've heard concerning 9/11. So now we have several airlines, three airports, families of the passengers, all news networks and their news crews in New York City, and all of the eyewitnesses who are all complicit with fabricating the whole thing, with production studios involved who could fake 50 or so videos of the impacts, with all of the players acting out the script in real time flawlessly. [Edit] And oh yeah, I forgot to mention the FAA and its air traffic controllers, they were in on it too in your world. Uh huh.
You actually believe that those flights never flew that day, and that those people never took off from the respective airports reported? I would have to say that's one of the nuttier things I've heard concerning 9/11. So now we have several airlines, three airports, families of the passengers, all news networks and their news crews in New York City, and all of the eyewitnesses who are all complicit with fabricating the whole thing, with production studios involved who could fake 50 or so videos of the impacts, with all of the players acting out the script in real time flawlessly. [Edit] And oh yeah, I forgot to mention the FAA and its air traffic controllers, they were in on it too in your world. Uh huh. I can't see people being silent about not seeing air planes or hearing them. They would let people know they were there and heard and saw no plane hit the WTC, but heard an explosion. Trying to pull off 9/11 with no planes and pretending the planes crashed into the buildings has too many chances to be discovered as a hoax. Anyone with a camcorder pointing at the south tower that day who saw it explode with no plane hitting it would have proved it was a hoax. No videos of that exist today even though there were many people with cam-corders that day filming the North Tower after it was hit. Surely some of them were filming from the South and would have caught the explosion on the side of the South tower with no plane hitting it, but there is no such video that I know of. The planners of 9/11 would not have risked this possibility when it is so much easier to just crash a plane into the building for real.
There are people who've said they were there and did not see or hear a plane or just heard an explosion. One of them can be heard in a breaking news interview at the start of the video here: September 11, 2001 - As It Happened - The South Tower Attack People who believe remote control was likely used that day shouldn't have difficulty with considering electronic signal jamming during acts of War, which 9/11 was against America. That wouldn't have to be for longer than a few seconds before the Tower explosions to interrupt camera equipment and cellphones from filming in the area.
On the issue of different plane trajectories, the video above at #297 has MSM newsclips of different smoke trajectories as well. For comparison, a plane image can be seen flying in from the right side of the screen and leftward towards the South Tower in two broadcasts. In one it flies right to left over the water towards the South Tower through a clear sky, with smoke from the North Tower moving away from it towards the left of the screen. In another broadcast, the plane image is still moving right to left towards the South Tower but the smoke is moving over it towards the right side of the screen. On wake vortex, an example of that can be seen in the movie, Hamburger Hill.
Point out the time stamps where this allegedly occurs.
Point out the time stamps where this allegedly occurs. 0:14 and 1:44 of the video "September 11, 2001 - As It Happened - The South Tower Attack" at Post #297: Edited for vid title and spacing.
Seriously GL? You ARE aware that those two clips are from two different viewing points, right? Turning the first clip around in perspective to that of the 2nd, they match.
I'm not convinced from your statement that simply a different viewing point perspective explains whether the direction of the smoke is moving over the plane or away from it in the opposite direction and those aren't the only examples of a difference in smoke trajectories as compared to the alleged plane.
You are convincing yourself of something that is untrue. Assuming the top of the image represents north, the first clip was filmed from somewhere in line with the Verizon building, with the smoke blowing south. The second clip was filmed from a westerly direction in line with WFC 2 (left of the image), with the smoke blowing to the south as well. As I said, the videos confirm that the smoke was blowing in the same direction, and they match.
In regards to the direction of the smoke in any of the videos, it is heading southeast if the top of the map is north. I was a bit off when I first thought it was heading south. The helicopter mentioned in earlier posts (1:03 to 1:13 in the 1st video below) was travelling from a position northwest of the North tower, heading northeast. I was mistaken about the other helicopter in the video immediately following (1:14 to 1:27), that one was a different news helicopter directly north of the North tower, and shot a video from that angle. That clip is in the 2nd YouTube video below, at 2:08 to 2:45. Viewing distance and zoom level make the perspectives somewhat difficult to judge, but not impossible to determine which one should be where in relation to its compass position relative to the North tower. I was correct about the video shot from the 1st helicopter, that one being the clip seen in the 1st video, 1:28 - 1:51. The 1st video shows a sequential panaromic collection of clips, starting with a view from the southwest, working clockwise around till the last clip viewed from the south. As far as the 1st helicopter, it can be seen in many of the clips if you watch for where it should be in relation to the North tower, whereas the 2nd helicopter can be seen in at least a few of them. The small plane I noticed in the 1st video at 0:58 - 1:02 is not the only instance of a similar type plane. There is one visible in the 2nd video at 1:55 - 1:57, and is apparently east of the WTC heading south. It is difficult to resolve its distance because of the fact zoom lens distort that dimension of perception. It apparently passed from left to right (north to south) and disappeared behind the North tower in the 1st video immediately before the strike by the airliner from the south. However, in the 2nd video one appears to travel north to south then disappear behind the North tower seconds AFTER the impact. If they were relatively far away, the speed traveled would have been quite fast, so it MAY have been military aircraft. There more than likely were two of them, since it wouldn't make sense for a single aircraft to pass east of the WTC from north to south seconds before the impact, and then once again seconds after the impact. 1st Video 2nd Video
Stop rationalising, stop justifying , stop defending the propaganda.... IF you see propaganda stop it right away and alert your fellow citizens to the danger. I dare say you have looked a bit closer... I mean you have admitted to alot of mistakes.... I did too before I accepted the truth of the matter. Not everyone has to be in on it. In fact the only one that has to be in on it is the media (TV, Radio, and Print at least) ... Everyone and everything everywhere else could easily be invented on paper... But they did and still do require media co-operation. And they have that. Lock stock and two mockingbird barrels.
You see tit, the problem with you is that you depend on other people's doctored videos to justify your beliefs. I can view the original videos and see not only what happened, but prove that you ARE full of shit.
No I am not full of shit... I am able to accept the truth.... I do not need to tell people "please inform me" I am already informed.... I am not waiting to rebel... I am a rebel. I am not waiting for the shit to hit the fan... it has already hit the fan. I am not bidding my time waiting for the SS to knock on my door... I am trying to help others see through the viel of propaganda that is so thick and powerful that some of the brainwashed sheep will violently fight to maintain their manipulated mindset. You former lurker can not even civilly discuss this without sarcasm or snark or vileness. And you refuse to ask youself why that is.... The videos are not doctored... Their are multiple flight paths. The evidence is in your face once it is pointed out. After that it is on the individual to accept the truth or lie to themselves as you continue to do lurker.... It is sad. All this time you spent debating an old event that nobody will do anything about... you could of been researching the NLP of 911 .... something to few do... so many say "Oh I know what happened" or "I know why that didn't happen" But few ever discuss the NLP propaganda of 911 and the lasting after effects. You could learn all about the latest advances in propaganda instead following the latest advances in propaganda.
Congratulations to the three of you. After 11 days and 381 posts, you've managed to sidetrack the topic of this thread, which is Israeli involvement in the 9/11 attacks and the arrest of Mossad agents that day found with tons of explosives near the George Washington Bridge, as well as how the buildings were wired with explosives and detonated. You've turned it into a ridiculous array of wild unprovable allegations concerning a massive conspiracy involving the television networks, camera crews, on-scene reporters, firemen, police, WTC survivors, bystanders, airlines, airports, air traffic controllers, and the FAA, where they all decided to fake plane crashes into the WTC and produce videos of fake planes, fake smoke, and fake fireballs. Do you guys get paid for this favor you did Israel?
You've turned it into a ridiculous array of wild unprovable allegations concerning a massive conspiracy involving the television networks, camera crews, on-scene reporters, firemen, police, WTC survivors, bystanders, airlines, airports, air traffic controllers, and the FAA, where they all decided to fake plane crashes into the WTC and produce videos of fake planes, fake smoke, and fake fireballs. Do you guys get paid for this favor you did Israel? Out of nearly 400 posts in this thread, the vast majority of them -- well over 300 -- are not by me, wudidiz, or titorite; but most of those by us were in answer to your barrage of demands, misconstruances, and derision. The opening post contains the word "Mossad" a total of 5 times and, with all the posters in this thread, it is only mentioned a total of 5 more times -- all by you and only you, FL, and not until over the 20th post. The George Washington Bridge was never mentioned by anyone except you until now and I am the only other person to have used the word bridge in a posting. The words Israel/Israeli/Israelis appear in responses on this thread less than 30 times after the opening post and 8 of those 30 times (approx. 25% to 30%+) are in a post by me on Zim Shipping linking that company directly to the Israeli government as a major shareholder -- which you cared not at all to discuss as evidence, nor did any other planers. I mentioned extensive research on Art Students in-residence at the WTC leading up to 9/11. Again, neither you nor any planers cared at all to discuss that evidence with regard to explosives and the spy network of Israeli Art Students concerning 9/11. A bigger priority for you, apparently (besides targeting no-planers), was insisting that the ABC "Butter Plane" was like "Kosher" Physics. Ergo, I should be the one asking you how much you got paid for the sidetracking distraction-favors you did for Israel. In summary, FL, your wild accusations are ridiculous and you have no remote control evidence -- just speculations and hostile allegations against dissenters as if they're heretics and worse. Newsflash: Remote Control Totalitarianism is not The 9/11 Truth Movement -- just a repressive faction of it. You not only proved my point about plane believers hopscotching over anomalies, FL, you also proved my point that the entire 9/11 charade could itself be called a blooming Directed Energy-Weapon to defocus and haphazardly disperse our energy (especially the Patriotic sort) into the atmosphere but I'm not going to thank you for doing so. Edited for grammar, % estimate, and 3rd paragraph.
When the military plane flew into the South Tower there was a quite noticeable flash. Some have speculated that this was static electricity, others have said that it was just a reflection. I don't think it was either. It was in a direct line from the pod underneath the plane. The answer to how the planes were able to penetrate the outer steel beams of 1/4 inch thickness is that a path was opened up for the plane with a some sort of explosive device, possibly a missile just before it entered the building.
The Mossad agents that were arrested from the "moving company" were freed and then went straight to Israel. Once there they went on a television show and said that they were there to "document the event." Why the heck did we release them when they knew about 9/11 in advance and were happy it occurred according to eye witnesses? For all we know they could have been the very people who helped place the explosives in the towers, and if they weren't they probably knew the people who did it. It is time we alert all Americans that Israel has taken over this nation and it is high time that we take it back!
It is time we alert all Americans that Israel has taken over this nation and it is high time that we take it back! Yes - Let us know who signed off on these eyewitnesses to this huge crime to be released to Israel. Who authorized this? Dov Zakhiem??
Who authorized this? US State Department, Justice Department, and the White House.
Who authorized this? FL: US State Department, Justice Department, and the White House. This is an example of evidentiary double standards that translate to pretty much any unsubstantiated assertion by planers being automatically deemed as admissable and nothing pertaining to no planes analysis. This is tangible, testable evidence in response to tom007's question, which FL's isn't: http://www.lostscribemedia.com/news/911-israels-masterpiece/ As an interesting aside, Rabbi Zakheim was featured prominently in the 1993 bombing of the WTC when his Tridata subsidiary was put in charge of the “investigation.” Emad Salem and Ahmad Ajaj were the FBI informants and Israeli moles that expedited the “arab-terrorist” narrative for the first attack on the WTC. Edited for spelling.
Who authorized this? FL: US State Department, Justice Department, and the White House. This is an example of evidentiary double standards that translate to pretty much any unsubstantiated assertion by planers being automatically deemed as admissable and nothing pertaining to no planes analysis. This is tangible, testable evidence in response to tom007's question, which FL's isn't: Oh and BTW, here's evidence the State Department was involved in the release of those spies... From What Did Israel Know in Advance of the 9/11 Attacks?
The reputable Israeli daily Ha'aretz reported that by the last week of October 2001, some six weeks after the men had been detained, Deputy Secretary of State Richard Armitage and two unidentified "prominent New York congressmen" were lobbying heavily for their release. According to a source at ABC News close to the 20/20 report, high-profile criminal lawyer Alan Dershowitz also stepped in as a negotiator on behalf of the men to smooth out differences with the U.S. government. (Dershowitz declined to comment for this article.) And so, at the end of November 2001, for reasons that only noted they had been working in the country illegally as movers, in violation of their visas, the men were flown home to Israel. I didn't post about Mukasey to refute your vague statement, nor because I don't think the State Department or any others throughout guv departments were involved. I posted it because you had posted nothing specific at all and no planers moved to ask for supporting evidence. Further expanding on the research: Excerpts from: The Dancing Israelis on 9-11 Steven Noah Gordon, a lawyer for the five, told The New York Times that their behaviour may have been offensive, but said the behaviour was not criminal — "and they were being treated as if it was." The five have since been deported. U.S. officials have offered no explanation for the arrests, even to immigration judges. Last month, when the INS asked that bail be denied to 11 of the Israelis, a judge rejected the request, saying the government had been less than forthcoming with evidence. Although the [INS] alleges that these cases are 'special,' it has failed to present any credible evidence of the basis for this finding," Judge Elizabeth Hacker wrote. "The service has failed to submit any evidence of terrorist activity or of a threat to national security." - The Globe & Mail [Wayback] The five were ordered deported Sept. 25 by an immigration judge after they acknowledged working here illegally. The Immigration and Naturalization Service would normally move expeditiously to deport them, but they have been caught up in the Bush administration’s effort to nab anyone even remotely connected with the terror attacks. The five Israelis were held at the Metropolitan Detention Center in Brooklyn, ostensibly for overstaying their tourist visas and working in the United States illegally. Two weeks after their arrest, an immigration judge ordered them to be deported. But sources told ABCNEWS that FBI and CIA officials in Washington put a hold on the case. Both the lawyers for the young men and the Israeli Embassy chalk it up to immature conduct. You might want to retract your assertion now that they bypassed judges in their release.
None of them went in front of a judge in relation to their roles in 9/11, espionage, and violations of various laws such as possession of explosives (reportedly tons) packed in one of those white vans, along with actually BLOWING UP a van on King Street in NYC which had been painted with a mural depicting an airliner crashing into the WTC. So that's what I was talking about, not whether their visas had expired or they jaywalked somewhere. Mukasey was not an Immigration judge, and it is he you were saying was the one who freed those Israelis.
So that's what I was talking about, not whether their visas had expired or they jaywalked somewhere. Mukasey was not an Immigration judge, and it is he you were saying was the one who freed those Israelis. No, you are misconstruing again. I posted info at #425 which stated that Mukasey played a critical role in sending the Mossad agents arrested on 9/11 to Israel, not the critical role as if he did it himself. At #427, you said: "Those agents never went before a judge of any type," and your evidence for that is still zero. At #444, you assert unsourced: "There is a WIDE range of reports which mention Chertoff as the person who effected the release of the Israelis apprehended on or after 9/11."; as if the wide range of reports which mention Mukasey-involvement don't count or somehow need more evidence than the zilch you presented on the subject -- and that was the point of my initial post on the matter in the first place: to show the evidentiary double standard that is expected to be higher for No Planes posters than for Planers. Thanks for proving my point again. Additionally, although Judge Hacker (who commented in the above referenced article) is an Immigration judge, she isn't even of the New York jurisdiction. There were many more Israeli suspects, besides the 5 Dancing Israelis in New York, who were also arrested and incarcerated then in other states as well. Some of the suspects were being held on Immigration charges but that wasn't what they were all being held for only, even if the Dancing Israelis were eventually deported for Immigration violations. iirc, some were stopped around Chicago with a map of the Sears Tower, etc.) The 5 Dancing Israelis were being held in the Metropolitan Detention Center in Brooklyn, which is a Federal Prison facility. It serves both the Eastern and the Southern U.S. District Courts of New York and Mukasey was a judge of the United States District Court for the Southern District of New York at the time (term: 1987-2006). Also: Hellerstein (term: 1998-2011). More on Hellerstein, Mukasey, and Chertoff in another post but first a bit more on Mukasey: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Mukasey More on the 9/11 Dancing Israelis and others: LEST WE FORGET–Dozens of Israeli Jews Being Kept in Federal Detention « The Ugly Truth ”We think there are about 50 in detention now, in San Diego, Houston, Kansas City, St. Louis and Cleveland, and there are some who have been released,” said Ido Aharoni, a spokesman for the Israeli consulate in New York. ”It’s not easy to get an exact count. Who Destroyed the WTC? (Connect the dots) -- Memorial Day, 2008 Edited paragraph 1 + spelling and spacing.
From: Michael Mukasey - Wikipedia Pic: President George W. Bush listens to remarks by Judge Michael Mukasey after announcing his nomination to be Attorney General. From: Urban Moving Systems: the US-Israeli 9/11 Financial Nexus Chertoff’s synagogue buddy, Michael Bernard Mukasey - an Orthodox Jew, was appointed by Bush as US Attorney General in 2007. [sic] take the 5 Israelis who were investigated by the FBI for their role in the 9-11 travesty but were allowed to return to Israel in late 2001. It was Michael Chertoff, then head of the US Justice Department’s criminal division & Talmudic Jew - Michael Mukasey, then Federal District Chief judge for New York in Manhattan, who gave the order...OBSTRUCTION OF JUSTICE BY ZIONIST JEWS [sic] The FBI had come under intense pressure from several congressmen and various pro-Israel groups to release the Israelis. The order to free them came from Michael Chertoff & Judge Michael Mukasey. An FBI investigator noted, “Leads were not fully investigated” due to pressure from “higher echelons.” [sic] The FBI had come under intense pressure from several congressmen and various pro- Israel groups to release the Israelis. The order to free them came from Michael Chertoff & Judge Michael Mukasey. An FBI investigator noted, “Leads were not fully investigated” due to pressure from “higher echelons.” [sic] In the days after the attacks, Mukasey worked behind closed doors seeing some of the first material witnesses detained by Federal authorities. These would have included the “five dancing Israelis” From: 9- 11: Israel’s Masterpiece - Lost Scribe Media Michael Mukasey along with Michael Chertoff, both key suspects in the 9/11 cover-up, also worked hand and glove in the first false flag bombing of the WTC in 1993. [My note: See also prior info posted earlier on Zakheim and Tridata, a subsidiary of his SPC/Systems Planning Corporation re: WTC '93 investigation tampering.] Chertoff was the lead prosecutor and Mukasey was the judge presiding over the fraudulent trial of the “Blind Sheikh”, Omar Abdel Rahman in the aftermath of the false flag bombing at WTC in 1993. The “Blind Sheikh” at the beginning of the trial asked Mukasey to remove himself from the trial given his severe bias towards the state of Israel. Mukasey, who had not permitted the “blind sheikh” the services of his choice of attorney and who also prevented the “blind sheikh” from his due process denying him the right to have an expert witness explain Islam to the ignorant jury, curtly refused this motion from the defendant. After his sentencing, the “Blind Sheikh”, among other anomalies and inconsistencies of the prosecution’s case, patiently explained that it was impossible for him to form a terrorist group while being incarcerated thousands of miles away during its creation. He was repeatedly and rudely interrupted by an irate and indignant Mukasey as the sheikh painstakingly debunked the fraudulent proceedings of the trial. In the 9/11 attacks Mukasey’s role was multifaceted. He oversaw the detained witnesses and suspects including the 5 dancing Israeli Mossad agents at the behest of then Assistant Attorney General at the Department of Justice, Michael Chertoff, the son of a founding member of the Mossad. Edited to add a link for Zakheim info at Post #425.
I'm not saying, nor I have I said, that Mukasey did not have a hand in the release of those Mossad agents. I have said that there isn't much info on what role he played, if any.. If you check your source of the info you posted, there is no reference to where the author obtained his info, other than from other blogs and forums. Your reference is in fact the Prison Planet forum, where anyone can write anything they want. The quote from your post above comes from a blog called "lostscribemedia", which although does contain some verifiable data, also contains info which is unsourced. Regardless of Mukasey's role, neither he nor Chertoff could have effected their release on their own, they had to have higher authorization to do so. In other words, the ultimate decision would had have to been made at the top, being GW Bush, Dick Cheney, and Cabinet level individuals. If the release was unauthorized by higher authority, neither Mukasey nor Chertoff would have been promoted to higher positions, yet they both were, with Chertoff being promoted to Secretary of Homeland Security, and Mukasey being promoted to US Attorney General under Bush.
And if we check your alleged wide range of report sources on Chertoff...oops. They aren't here. How many times do you want to prove my point about evidentiary double standards? Give it a rest so we can agree without backtracking that the release had to be authorized by Ashcroft, other Cabinet level persons, and higher. Btw, I reviewed the smoke trajectory issue again with some thought on your perspective, as I said I would, and that just doesn't explain the smoke going in opposite directions but Media Fakery does. Edited last sentence of paragraph 1.
So ok, details are sketchy on BOTH Chertoff's and Mukasey's role in the release of those Israelis. What started out as a quick response from me to tom007, one which was as accurate as can be logically determined, has ended up being a full blown pissing contest over something that really doesn't prove one thing or another, other than there are unsourced reports floating around which point the finger to both individuals. You are the one who started pointing fingers at ME, for not being detailed enough. What it comes to is that you've been nitpicking and pouncing on me over things which neither you nor I can actually say is definitive proof, yet, you act like you are the master of all that is true, even though you can't admit that you are full of it in terms of which direction the smoke was blowing from the WTC towers on the morning of 9/11/2001, even with clear evidence that ALL original videos show the smoke moving to the southeast. Or are you ALSO claiming that there were NO smoke plumes that morning? Sheesh, one might almost think that you're here to waste people's time and drive them away from any REAL facts.
Same to you, FL.
You have made it your mission in life to discredit anything I post. I've been posting on this forum, LP, and FreeRepublic, over the course of 14 years or so. I've posted on topics such as TWA800, OKC, Waco, RubyRidge, 9/11, the Iraq war, amongst other things. In all cases I've provided factual and scientific evidence and analysis showing how the government stories are false. I at times give my opinion, and sometimes I make mistakes as does anyone, but if I make a factual error I admit it as such and correct it. Yet you hammer on me personally as if I were posting fraudulent info, all the while posting fraudulent videos yourself, mixed in with a tad bit of truth, just as some people claim Alex Jones does, amongst others. You are really making me think you are getting rewarded for your efforts.
you hammer on me personally You are really making me think you are getting rewarded for your efforts. Backatcha, FL. What fraudulent video are you complaining about? I explained to you that the media altered a video to promote war in Iraq. Did you forget that?
You are claiming not just that a video was altered, you're saying ALL video from NYC was altered real time on the morning of 9/11, and that millions of people didn't really see what they saw. The one specific video I was referring to earlier is the one your expert "analyzed" and determined it was doctored, AFTER he doctored the video himself to make it look doctored.
I don't know what you're talking about. Do you?
I don't know what you're talking about. Do you? My how soon you forget. This one, which you posted back in post 373.
GreyLmist: #506. To: FormerLurker (#486) FL: #507. To: GreyLmist (#506) GreyLmist: #508. To: FormerLurker (#507) FL: #509. To: GreyLmist (#508) I didn't forget. You did and are making much ado about nothing. At #486, you accused me of posting fraudulent videos plural. As for the video you posted at #509, you ignored the explanations of media-alteration that I gave you at #373 and again at #506, then accused titorite at #507 of doctoring the video you were complaining about at #486, where you had accused me of posting fraudulent videos. Hence, my query at #508 asking if you knew what you were talking about. This is the 3rd time now that you are being informed: the referenced video [9-11 TV Fakery Smoke & Mirrors (short version)] was altered by the media to promote War in Iraq. It was not doctored by titorite and it was not a fraudulent trickery-post by me. Clearly, you weren't paying attention or you should know that. This is the sequence of posts in question: titorite: #350. To: FormerLurker (#343) www.youtube.com- watchv=DkzfKRe0gbc -- YouTube title: 9-11 TV Fakery Smoke & Mirrors (short version) titorite: #351. To: All (#350) www.youtube.com/watch?v=NnhDqOJh_28 -- YouTube title: WTC No Plane Truth (Part 17) titorite: #353. To: All (#351) www.youtube.com/watch? v=NnhDqOJh_28 -- YouTube title: WTC No Plane Truth (Part 17) In response to his request, I posted it for him at #364. FL: #358. To: titorite, RickyJ, ALL, *9-11* (#353) That video was obviously manipulated and edited, by people such as you or your friends. The original, live video does not show such manipulation. YOU are the one posting fraudulent video there slick. RickyJ: #366. To: FormerLurker (#358) I am not surprised. It is obviously a way to try make 9/11 truthers look crazy to say there was no planes when there is no real evidence that is the case. Many no planners note how hard it would be for an aluminum plane to break through the steel beams surrounding the WTC towers. What they aren't considering though is that this was no ordinary plane that hit the towers. IMO it was made specifically for hitting the towers. Possibly even had a missile underneath it to clear a path for it just before it hit the building. At #373, I posted the video in question and thought this explanation would rectify your wrongful assessment and Ricky's misunderstanding of the situation because of it: [Video was then posted by me for clarification of the link in question: www.youtube.com-watchv=DkzfKRe0gbc -- YouTube title: 9-11 TV Fakery Smoke & Mirrors (short version). Edit to add: Also posted embed steps for titorite.] Reference the series of posts in the quoted section above for my 2nd attempt at explaining to you that the video was altered by the media, which you ignored again, then accused titorite of doctoring it to make it look doctored. If you still don't understand after this 3rd attempt, that would be like strike 3 and you're out but don't try to blame me or titorite or No Planers for it. Ask yourself how it might not reflect well on your faction if you refuse this time to "get it" or continue to stir up a needless ruckus about it. Edited for grammar and highlighted addition in brackets above the last paragraph.
An excellent reprise of important transactions in this argument. Note that the writer didn't see the need to call anyone a "punk" or an "asshole" in his summary.
#514. To: randge, FormerLurker (#513)
(Edited)
Thanks, randge. It could have been shorter if FL's post #358 on the smoke anomaly link had been in response to titorite's post #350 where he put it. Instead, FL's reply about that was made at his 2nd posting of the link for analysis of plane trajectories in MSM newsclips at #353. Oy, as the exasperated saying goes in Yiddish. Edited to add post # notation in next to last sentence.
Noted.
You know if I wanted to collect all the profanity and obscenity uttered on this thread, it would show that 99% of it comes from titorite. Would a 15+ paragraph post with links and references help do you think?
Note that the writer didn't see the need to call anyone a "punk" or an "asshole" in his summary. The lines of patience are much longer in Grey.
Top • Page Up • Full Thread • Page Down • Bottom/LatestOnce this was in place the planes could be taken over by remote control and flown into the World Trade Center.
#20. To: Cynicom, *9-11* (#1)
Uhhhh, nahhhhhhh.
#22. To: FormerLurker (#20)
Have you never heard of drones or UAVs?
#64. To: Cynicom, randge (#22)
Have you never heard of drones or UAVs?
#65. To: Original_Intent, randge, Christine (#64)
9/11 was flown by human hands.
#66. To: Cynicom (#65)
imagine
#67. To: wudidiz (#66)
#68. To: Cynicom (#67)
#70. To: wudidiz (#68)
There was no plane.
#72. To: FormerLurker (#70)
#73. To: All, *No Planers* (#72)
There were planes
#74. To: wudidiz (#73)
I didn't see one.
#76. To: FormerLurker (#74)
Just because YOU didn't see it doesn't mean it wasn't or isn't there.
#77. To: wudidiz (#76)
Noone saw it. Except on tv.
#114. To: FormerLurker (#77)
It wasn't just captured on video by MANY news agencies, people in New York actually saw it happen live.
#120. To: wudidiz (#114)
You have what evidence that they "actually" saw it live?
#127. To: FormerLurker (#120)
if you bothered doing any sort of research into 9/11 you'd know that it's 99.8% likely that planes hit the WTC towers
#147. To: wudidiz, *9-11* (#127)
(Edited)
Well said, but what evidence do you have that planes hit the wtc?
#149. To: FormerLurker, *9-11* (#147)
Do you have any bonafide evidence that all of the witnesses are lying and that all of the impact videos are faked?
Little to no smoke damage seen where much would be expected.
#150. To: GreyLmist (#149)
Is it actually news to you that there is ample evidence online of alleged 9/11- witnesses lying, FL?
#184. To: FormerLurker (#150)
(Edited)
Is it news to you that there are limits to what is probable and what isn't?
#186. To: RickyJ, *9-11* (#184)
(Edited)
Yep, simple logic says if there were no planes then there would have been many, not just a few, but many people proclaiming that they saw and heard no planes. Where are these people? No planers are not thinking about the illogical points in their positions.
#189. To: FormerLurker (#186)
It is MUCH easier to take control of an aircraft remotely and fly it into a tower, than to pull off such a large scale act of deception, where the world believes jet airliners hit the towers, yet in reality they were created in a studio and broadcast to the world in unison at the exact proper time, in league with every news crew and witness in the City of New York.
#191. To: GreyLmist (#189)
You need to prove first that planes were used before asserting they were remote controlled.
#198. To: FormerLurker, *9-11* (#191)
You need to first prove planes were NOT involved, as that is what was reported, witnessed, and recorded on video.
#203. To: GreyLmist, *9-11* (#198)
The burden of proof isn't really on No Planes researchers to prove a negative 4 times. Nevertheless, that nearly impossible mathematical feat has already been demonstrated many times, here and elsewhere, for those willing to review the technical analysis of Videographers as well as that of Architects and Engineers, etc. Perhaps you're under your mistaken impression because of G.W. Bush's ploy to invade Iraq by demanding evidence of non-existent WMDs there. The burden of proof about planes is on those making the assertions of planes -- the government and those like you who extrapolate from it.
After the steel structure was in place, the crew attached the outer "skin" to the perimeter -- anodized aluminum, pre-cut into large panels.
#210. To: FormerLurker (#203)
Your little GIF file tells a lie, in that the outer shell of the WTC towers was made of ALUMINUM, NOT STEEL.
After the steel structure was in place, the crew attached the outer "skin" to the perimeter -- anodized aluminum, pre-cut into large panels.
#229. To: GreyLmist (#210)
Are you joking? The WTC buildings were made of steel by the tons.
#234. To: FormerLurker (#229)
As far as an object travelling at high velocity, have you ever shot a gun? Lead is softer than steel, yet a high power rifle bullet such as a .308 will slice through steel as if it were butter.
#238. To: titorite (#234)
DU rounds would of never been engineered
#240. To: FormerLurker (#238)
Oh and BTW, DU rounds were invented in order to penetrate through heavily armored vehicles such as tanks.
#242. To: titorite (#240)
As good as of a digression as that is I would still point out that all the planes in the news footage lack any discernible wake....
#252. To: FormerLurker (#242)
What do you mean "wake"? Boats leave wakes, not planes.
#253. To: titorite (#252)
Did you tell someone else here to learn physics buster?
#254. To: FormerLurker (#253)
Show me a vid where the plane flies through smoke smartass.
#256. To: titorite (#254)
gave you three different links already....the nasa link in particular should be good and instructive... Not my fault if you wont click a link.....
#258. To: FormerLurker (#256)
Well no shit, it WOULDN'T have if it didn't fly through smoke.
#259. To: titorite (#258)
(Edited)
#262. To: FormerLurker (#259)
So let's see. You believe that all the news reporters, camera crews, bystanders, firemen, police, television networks (US and foreign), conspired to fabricate a tale of planes striking the towers. They produced footage fabricated in a studio, and they all played along with the lie in real time as events unfolded.
#267. To: titorite (#262)
(Edited)
#270. To: FormerLurker (#267)
(Edited)
#276. To: titorite, *9-11* (#270)
#284. To: FormerLurker (#276)
(Edited)
#285. To: RickyJ (#284)
(Edited)
Those that want to call that fake, despite not having hardly any witnesses to back up their theory are just plain nuts or are not really truthers and are just trying to make the truth movement look bad. I suspect it is the latter.
#291. To: titorite, RIckyJ (#285)
(Edited)
Their were enough lives for one full plane... one full plane went else where.... god rest their souls. That crew passenger manifest got split up in paperwork and assigned to four fictitious paper planes.
#293. To: FormerLurker, *9-11* (#291)
So you're now saying that the airlines were in it too?
#297. To: RickyJ, *9-11* (#293)
#298. To: titorite, wudidiz, RickyJ, FormerLurker, All, *9-11* (#297)
#319. To: GreyLmist (#298)
In one it flies right to left over the water towards the South Tower through a clear sky, with smoke from the North Tower moving away from it towards the left of the screen. In another broadcast, the plane image is still moving right to left towards the South Tower but the smoke is moving over it towards the right side of the screen.
#323. To: FormerLurker (#319)
(Edited)
In one it flies right to left over the water towards the South Tower through a clear sky, with smoke from the North Tower moving away from it towards the left of the screen. In another broadcast, the plane image is still moving right to left towards the South Tower but the smoke is moving over it towards the right side of the screen.
#324. To: GreyLmist (#323)
0:14 and 1:44 of the video
#326. To: FormerLurker (#324)
#329. To: GreyLmist (#326)
I'm not convinced from your statement that simply a different viewing point perspective explains whether the direction of the smoke is moving over the plane or away from it in the opposite direction and those aren't the only examples of a difference in smoke trajectories as compared to the alleged plane.
#344. To: GreyLmist, titorite, All, *9-11* (#329)
#349. To: FormerLurker (#344)
If they were relatively far away, the speed traveled would have been quite fast, so it MAY have been military aircraft.
#361. To: titorite (#349)
#380. To: FormerLurker (#361)
You see tit, the problem with you is that you depend on other people's doctored videos to justify your beliefs. I can view the original videos and see not only what happened, but prove that you ARE full of shit.
#382. To: titorite, GreyLmist, wudidiz, *9-11* (#380)
#392. To: FormerLurker, RickyJ, wudidiz, titorite, *9-11* (#382)
(Edited)
Congratulations to the three of you. After 11 days and 381 posts, you've managed to sidetrack the topic of this thread, which is Israeli involvement in the 9/11 attacks and the arrest of Mossad agents that day found with tons of explosives near the George Washington Bridge, as well as how the buildings were wired with explosives and detonated.
#393. To: GreyLmist (#392)
(Edited)
#394. To: All (#393)
(Edited)
#399. To: RickyJ (#394)
(Edited)
The Mossad agents that were arrested from the "moving company" were freed and then went straight to Israel. Once there they went on a television show and said that they were there to "document the event." Why the heck did we release them when they knew about 9/11 in advance and were happy it occurred according to eye witnesses? For all we know they could have been the very people who helped place the explosives in the towers, and if they weren't they probably knew the people who did it.
#401. To: tom007, RickyJ (#399)
Yes - Let us know who signed off on these eyewitnesses to this huge crime to be released to Israel.
#425. To: FormerLurker, tom007, RickyJ, *9-11* (#401)
(Edited)
tom007: Yes - Let us know who signed off on these eyewitnesses to this huge crime to be released to Israel.
After the towers fell, Michael Mukasey who played a critical role in sending the Mossad agents arrested on 9/11 to Israel, worked as a judge on behalf of Silverstein against the insurance company who was awarded the payout for two separate attacks to the tune of $4.68 billion.
#455. To: GreyLmist, tom007, RickyJ, *9-11* (#425)
tom007: Yes - Let us know who signed off on these eyewitnesses to this huge crime to be released to Israel.
The reputable Israeli daily Ha'aretz reported that by the last week of October 2001, some six weeks after the men had been detained, Deputy Secretary of State Richard Armitage and two unidentified "prominent New York congressmen" were lobbying heavily for their release. According to a source at ABC News close to the 20/20 report, high-profile criminal lawyer Alan Dershowitz also stepped in as a negotiator on behalf of the men to smooth out differences with the U.S. government. (Dershowitz declined to comment for this article.) And so, at the end of November 2001, for reasons that only noted they had been working in the country illegally as movers, in violation of their visas, the men were flown home to Israel.
#470. To: FormerLurker, *9-11* (#455)
Oh and BTW, here's evidence the State Department was involved in the release of those spies...
From What Did Israel Know in Advance of the 9/11 Attacks?
Sivan, who had the camera, had planned to fly to India on Sept. 14 to meet friends there.” – Jewish Week (11/02/01)
#472. To: GreyLmist (#470)
(Edited)
You might want to retract your assertion now that they bypassed judges in their release.
#473. To: FormerLurker, *9-11* (#472)
(Edited)
None of them went in front of a judge in relation to their roles in 9/11, espionage, and violations of various laws such as possession of explosives (reportedly tons) packed in one of those white vans, along with actually BLOWING UP a van on King Street in NYC which had been painted with a mural depicting an airliner crashing into the WTC.
On October 14, 2004, citing U.S. Supreme Court precedent, Mukasey reversed his September 2002 decision and dismissed a case in which plaintiffs in twenty consolidated actions sued the Italian insurance company Generali S.p.A. (Generali), seeking damages for nonpayment of insurance proceeds to beneficiaries of policies purchased by Holocaust victims before the end of World War II.[23] In so ruling, Mukasey gave deference to "a federal executive branch policy favoring voluntary resolution of Holocaust-era insurance claims."[24]
some have been kept in detention by the Immigration and Naturalization Service for nearly a month. In some cases, the immigration service has invoked special post-Sept. 11 laws to keep the Israelis in jail but presented no evidence of a link to the terrorism investigation.
Four of the Israelis, arrested on 9-11 for celebrating the mass murder of thousands of Americans, filed a multimillion dollar lawsuit against the US Justice Department, claiming they were arrested illegally, then held without charge and interrogated and tortured for months. [sic] After Sept. 11 over 100 young Israeli "art students", illegally in the country and spying all across America, were quietly ordered "deported" to Israel by a high American official [Chertoff again?]. [Have they filed suit against US, too?]
#474. To: All, *9-11* (#473)
(Edited)
More on Hellerstein, Mukasey, and Chertoff in another post
In 1987, Mukasey was nominated as a federal district judge for the Southern District of New York in Manhattan by President Ronald Reagan; he took the bench in 1988. He served in that position for 18 years, including tenure as Chief Judge from March 2000[19] through July 2006.[20]
Beginning in 2001, Michael Chertoff - the son of a Talmudic rabbi - was head of the criminal division of the US Justice Department. In 2005 President Bush nominated Chertoff as Secretary of US Homeland Security.
Alvin K Hellerstein and Michael Mukasey have been the Israeli connected, Talmudic tag-team of NY federal judges that have dominated 9/11 related litigation. [sic] Hellerstein and Mukasey just so happen to attend the exact same Orthodox, Zionist, Kehilath Jeshrun synagogue in Manhattan. The synagogue openly states that it is “deeply committed to the State of Israel and its citizens.” [sic]
#479. To: GreyLmist (#474)
(Edited)
In the 9/11 attacks Mukasey’s role was multifaceted. He oversaw the detained witnesses and suspects including the 5 dancing Israeli Mossad agents at the behest of then Assistant Attorney General at the Department of Justice, Michael Chertoff, the son of a founding member of the Mossad.
#480. To: FormerLurker, *9-11*, *No Planers* (#479)
(Edited)
#481. To: GreyLmist (#480)
#483. To: FormerLurker (#481)
Sheesh, one might almost think that you're here to waste people's time and drive them away from any REAL facts.
#486. To: GreyLmist (#483)
Same to you, FL.
#506. To: FormerLurker (#486)
You have made it your mission in life to discredit anything I post.
#507. To: GreyLmist (#506)
What fraudulent video are you complaining about? I explained to you that the media altered a video to promote war in Iraq. Did you forget that?
#508. To: FormerLurker (#507)
The one specific video I was referring to earlier is the one your expert "analyzed" and determined it was doctored, AFTER he doctored the video himself to make it look doctored.
#509. To: GreyLmist (#508)
The one specific video I was referring to earlier is the one your expert "analyzed" and determined it was doctored, AFTER he doctored the video himself to make it look doctored.
#512. To: FormerLurker, titorite, RickyJ, *No Planers* (#509)
(Edited)
FL: #486. To: GreyLmist (#483)
you hammer on me personally as if I were posting fraudulent info, all the while posting fraudulent videos yourself, mixed in with a tad bit of truth, just as some people claim Alex Jones does, amongst others.
What fraudulent video are you complaining about? I explained to you that the media altered a video to promote war in Iraq. Did you forget that?
The one specific video I was referring to earlier is the one your expert "analyzed" and determined it was doctored, AFTER he doctored the video himself to make it look doctored.
I don't know what you're talking about. Do you?
My how soon you forget. This one, which you posted back in post 373.
In this post, titorite posted this link as a smoke anomaly example:
In this post, titorite posted this link as an example of plane- trajectory anomalies in MSM newsclips:
In this post, titorite asked for help in posting the video analysis here of MSM newsclips with plane-trajectory anomalies at this link:
In this post, you (FL) referenced titorite's smoke anomaly video link [www.youtube.com- watchv=DkzfKRe0gbc -- YouTube title: 9-11 TV Fakery Smoke & Mirrors (short version)] and commented:
In this post, RickyJ made this comment to you about it:
That video (below) was posted and discussed quite a while ago in this forum -- I think before titorite was here. It is (as I recall) a manipulation, yes -- by the media -- for a later documentary pushing war against Iraq. The 9/11 imagery was darkened to look more terrifying for Islamophobic purposes. Am not surprised if Ricky and FL don't remember it or didn't see it because the more important issues to planers seems to be: 1. There was no such thing as any Media-Mockingbirds or Media-hoaxing on 9/11. 2. Remote control existed, glitch- free, and Zakheim would profit if it was used so it was. 3. John Lear's info is meaningless if planers don't like him. 4. Anyone who disagrees with planer dictats is __________ (fill in the ad hominem: nuts, extremely confused, a disinfo agent, etc., etc.)
#513. To: GreyLmist (#512)
Replies to Comment # 513.
#515. To: randge, GreyLmist (#513)
Note that the writer didn't see the need to call anyone a "punk" or an "asshole" in his summary.
#519. To: randge, titorite, GreyLmist (#513)
Note that the writer didn't see the need to call anyone a "punk" or an "asshole" in his summary.
#526. To: randge (#513)
An excellent reprise of important transactions in this argument.
End Trace Mode for Comment # 513.
