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Title: How 9/11 Was Done
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URL Source: http://physics911.net/how-911-was-done/
Published: Sep 3, 2012
Author: http://physics911.net/how-911-was-done/
Post Date: 2012-09-03 14:09:24 by tom007
Keywords: None
Views: 18529
Comments: 674
How 9/11 Was Done For additional notes see the accompanying blog 911notes.blogspot.com. Prologue Read the following two screens of text to learn what happened at 9/11. 9/11 was a master plot, concocted by a handfull of Israelis and dual passport Americans and carried out by the resources of the Mossad. Larry Silverstein leases a nearly worthless dinosaur WTC building complex (worthless due to the asbestos the buildings were stuffed with and needed to be cleaned up, the cost of which may have rivaled the value of the buildings themselves) weeks before 9/11, makes sure it is over insured against terrorist acts and hires an Israeli security firm. From that moment on the coast is clear to let a team of demolition experts from the Israeli army led by Peer Segalovitz into the WTC buildings. These charges plus detonators had been prepared at the premises of the Urban Moving Systems company, a Mossad front. During the weeks before 9/11 these prepared charges were loaded into vans, driven into the basements of WTC Twin Towers next to the elevator shaft, unloaded into the elevator, and lifted onto the roof of the elevator through the opening in the elevator ceiling. Next the elevator moved from floor to floor while charges where being attached to the columns as displayed in this video from 0:22 onwards. The detonators of these charges were radiographic controlled and finally detonated from WTC7 on the day of 9/11. Fast backward, Hamburg 54 Marienstrasse, july 2000, 22:40. Mohamed Atta, Al Shehhi and Jarrah (who were later blamed of being the pilots of flight 11, 175 and 93 respectively), who share the apartment hear the ringing of the door bell. Jarrah opens the door, 5 masked men make their way into the apartment with drawn pistols. The 3 Arabs are forced to lay on the ground. Their passports are confiscated, next the 3 men are made unconscious with some liquid and strangled to death afterwards. The bodies are carried out of the apartment into a van and driven off towards a desolate spot at the boarding of the Elbe river outside Hamburg, 1 kilometer north of Borstel and disposed of into the river with a bag filled with stones tied to their feet. The 3 passports are now in the possession of the agents of the Mossad, who carried out the raid on the apartment and 3 Arabs have vanished without anybody knowing that they are dead. Not long after the raid the 3 passports are given to 3 Israeli agents who were selected on having some resemblance with the 3 Arabs just killed. They make for America soon afterwards in the summer of 2000 and start laying a trail at flight schools, posing with the stolen identities from the 3 Arabs killed. Years earlier the israeli Michael Goff working for PTech, an Arab owned software company that develops key enterprise software for many government institutions like NORAD and FAA, using his secure channel with another israeli Amit Yoran, somehow manages to give Israeli army computer programmers access to this critical computer code. It was due to this manipulation that the hijackings on 9/11 remained unnoticed by the flight controller of NORAD. Once this was in place the planes could be taken over by remote control and flown into the World Trade Center. The hijacking of airliners by remote control had been tested as a dress rehearsal for 9/11 on the Egypt Air flight 990 that crashed into the Atlantic on October 31, 1999. Now everything was in place to commit the crime of the century. On the day of 9/11 the Israeli stand-ins for the ‘Arab hijackers’ showed up at the predestined departure airports to make sure they were captured on surveillance camera’s. The crucial point here is that the security at both the departure airports was in hands of an Israeli firm Huntleigh-USA, a subsidiary of the Dutch based but Israeli owned ICTS led by a fellow named Menahem Atzmon. And this is crucial: Atzmon used to be a colleague of Olmert in 1998. So there you have the link between the 9/11 operative level (an airport security firm) and the highest level of Israeli politics. What happened on the morning of 9/11 was that after the Israeli stand-ins were captured on camera, they left the airport via a side entrance and the show could begin. Minutes after the planes became air born somebody somehow was able to send a signal to the planes, causing the control panels to be disabled and the flight destination altered. What happened was that an anti-hijack system was activated (code word ‘home run’) and the regular pilot was put out of control. This pilot will probably have tried frantically to regain control of his aircraft. It is not very likely he will have told his passengers about the new situation since that would only cause panic. The passengers probably suspected nothing and hence had no reason to make any phone calls to their relatives (which were not possible anyway). And while the 9/11 passengers unsuspecting travel towards their immanent deaths, on the ground from a war room Israeli agents carry out phone calls to relatives of the passengers that were still in the air, using voice morphing technology and caller-ID spoofing and thus planted the Arabs-did-it-deception in the public consciousness. The sound samples necessary to carry out the fake telephone calls had been obtained via the israeli infiltration of American telephone networks by Israeli firms like Amdocs and Verint. By the time that the passengers were puzzled as they discerned the New York sky line it was already too late. Meanwhile on the other side of the Hudson river the members of the Israeli team that planted the demolition charges were waiting for things to happen. And while the rest of New York experienced in horror the events that were unfolding that day, the demolition experts were celebrating and high-fiving. The plot had worked out magnificently. *** Please save this page to your local hard drive *** This blog is the verbal expression of an adaptive learning process. Please come back regularly. Core Argument Ok, I admit. Some elements in this story are speculative. I do not know for instance if Atta was killed in Germany or in America. But the story is an coherent educated speculation. It is an attempt to reconstruct the events of 9/11. Myriads of web sites exist that expose the inconsistencies in the official story, that obviously is a fraud. This story offers an integral explanation of what could have happened and in all likelihood more or less did happen at 9/11 as there can be hardly any doubt about who was behind 9/11 if one rejects the official story. Some elements remain vague, like what happened exactly to WTC7, flight77, flight93 or Mohamed Atta. But these questions are of academic interest only. It’s clear who was behind 9/11 and what happened in detail with WTC-1/2 and the planes. That is enough. Here’s where most people got killed. The rest of the plot can be uncovered by a tribunal. In order to prevent that you get swallowed up by yet another 10 meters of screen text here is the core of the argument. The story is based on 2 broadly accepted postulates: 1) WTC was brought down by controlled demolition 2) The ‘dancing Israelis’ on the morning of 9/11 had foreknowledge of things to come These 2 premises are enough to put the Official Conspiracy Theory (Arabs did it) out of business. Premise 2 leads to the preliminary conclusion that the Israelis had foreknowledge because they organized the attacks themselves. Since Israelis are not known to commit suicide attacks we have to assume that the airplanes that crashed into their destinations were remote controlled. If one accepts this as a working hypothesis than there is a lot, I mean really a lot, of material that supports this Israeli Conspiracy Theory that replaces the official Arab Conspiracy Theory. We have the dedicated Zionist Silverstein who leases the WTC complex and over insures it against terrorism (leading to a hansom profit); we know that security at all departure airports and ‘arrival airports’ (WTC) was in Israeli hands (Huntleigh-USA and Kroll Associates, resp.); we know that the owner of Huntleigh-USA, Menachem Atzmon, a convicted criminal, had strong ties to Ehud Olmert, that is the highest level of Israeli politics; we also know that the Israeli secret service can eavesdrop on virtually everybody in the USA via Israeli owned companies like Amdocs and Verint which gave the Mossad the possibility to obtain sound samples of future 9/11 passengers to apply voice morphing to in order to make the fake phone calls on 9/11. And of course there is Dov Zakheim, the real mastermind of 9/11 who was CEO of SPC for 4 years prior to 9/11, a company that produces systems for remote control of airplanes. The same Zakheim that was a member of the Zionist dominated PNAC group, that more or less plotted for a global American empire, and suggested that a ‘New Pearl Harbor‘ (page 51) could speed things up a bit; and finally the same Zakheim that 6 months before 9/11 became supervisor of a group of Pentagon comptrollers that had to sort out what had happened to the 2.3 trillion dollars that were missing from the Pentagon books; many of these comptrollers conveniently got killed on 9/11 and much of the financial data went with them. This is the core of the story. Note: I am not claiming that 9/11 is solved. Of this however we can be certain: WTC controlled demolition, Israelis carried out the operation, no Arab hijackers, mastermind Zakheim, motive PNAC & Clean Break and remote control. I do not care about flight77 or 93, those are details to be solved by crime investigators. The most pressing question is that of remote control: how was that done? Were the original flights 11 and 175 remote controlled themselves or was there a plane swap as some have suggested, including Bollyn? Disclaimer: nobody is guilty until convicted by a court of law. This blog’s intent is to stimulate thinking about 9/11 from a different angle than the official one. From day one the blame has been put at bin Laden and his people without real evidence. Today bin Laden is no longer persecuted for 9/11 according to the FBI website. The theory proposed here might be true or false or contain some truth. In the end it must be an official investigation that determines who is guilty and who is not. This blog is dedicated to Italian ex-president Cossiga who is the highest ranking statesman to date who has openly stated that it was the Mossad who has carried out the 9/11 attacks.
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#1. To: tom007 (#0)
Uhhhh, nahhhhhhh.
OBL was never charged with any 9.11 anything by the FBI, for whatever that's worth.
I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them ~ Thomas Jefferson
few people pay attention to the 'fact' that this alleged crime was never attributed to him on FBI wanted posters ... which has always struck me as curious in 2 respects #1 - that FBI did not blame him #2 - that kool-aid drinking Americans don't find that significant no matter what the truth eventually gets shown to be, I will die knowing that the official story is a bucket of lies - I knew it (the story being told on teeeveee) was all BS the moment the mushroom cloud began to form for first tower to fall Early in the day, Dan Rather called it a controlled demolition (as it clearly was to anyone with half a brain).
I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them ~ Thomas Jefferson
yes, and few people saw that as well, it's been mind blowing to see how many little things like that slipped past, as if they didn't get the scrip to everyone on time and then later, kool-aid drunks insinuate we're making it up. the trolls and shills on one youtube video began ignoring me after awhile - everything they threw simply opened the door for me to offer another little tidbit like that *LOL* the Jew I worked for in Dallas that day did not skip a beat, within 24 hours our 1,500 clients received a 'let's scare the hell out of them' email blast pushing them to place a 90 day order now, before the terrozits disrupted everything - worked like a charm, he made bank that month and then in following months as he played the card, 'they still haven't got through but can any day' Any serious 911 researcher knows about the spire.... Anyone who has watched those towers fall thousands of times scrutinising every pixel and part ... we know about the spire... It did not fall over it evaporated/disintegrated. Metal does not do that normally.... An interesting look on wikis DEW page talks about the very direct energy weapon that does just that... atomizes metal. TV fakery might of added planes where their were none but it was a DEW weapon that turned paper, cement, and metal into dust. ____________________________________________________________ . . . The US government has declared civil war on itself. Its lust for war grew so great... Liberty before death. We run , we live, We fight again, till we win. We did not start this fight. We damn sure did not willingly pay our taxes to buy the bullets and drones that shall be used to kill us. We will correct the violations of this rogue nation....our rogue nation. We will fix this because nobody else can. You will work to help me help us all to fix this failure. After you're done educating yourself, Action!!!
ALL of the Boeing 700 series aircraft since the late 60s, have been able to be flown remotely as the result of hijackings of that time. The concept was to be able to take control of a hijacked aircraft and safely fly it to a controlled airport where it could be safely landed, and the hijackers arrested, with the mil/gov. in total control. The individual(s) in the cockpit would have no control over the aircraft in any way. This was made possible by way of the AFSCS program. Theoretically we can take total control of any of these aircraft no matter where they are over the earth. ... If a man has nothing that he is willing to die for, then he has nothing worth living for....
I would like to see that from Boeing.
Cyni, I'll have to look up the reference, but 700 series aircraft, don't remember whether its was 737s or 757s were flown to Australia from the West Coast and landed there without a human pilot aboard. This was some time before 911. This was mainstream news. I'm tied up at the moment and can't look it up now, but perhaps one of the other posters can. The Navy is working on a aircraft carrier self landing plane as we speak. Now that will be a slick trick - if they can pull it off. Hopes to have one in a few years. From what I understand, most modern jet liners can be totally auto piloted, some can take off and land in auto, as post above. Robert Fisk, asked his 7 something pilot what it would take to program this jet to fly into the WTC. The pilot pointed to his dash and said "put in the coodinates and push that button". Additionally, one of the major suspects in this saga was an Israel native who headed a company that specialized in this technology. randge... Some are in error as to the difference between "programmed" and remote controlled.
The military has the most advanced "remote piloting" in the world. Their "loss rate" is near fifty percent because of what they call "latency". Human hands guided the 911 aircraft.
except for the magic passports, of course.
yep
They know we are collectively gullible. 100 Million Americans Question or Find Fault with the Official 9/11 Story www.globalresearch.ca/100...-the-official-9-11-story/ Nearly 90 Percent of Germans Do Not Believe Official 9/11 Fairy Tale
Dov S. Zakeim was pentagon comptroller stole(?) 2.3T that went missing and was also CEO of the remote-control company. PNAC creature and otherwise worthless POS zionist.
I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them ~ Thomas Jefferson
He and Cheney appear to me to be front center. No end to the errors and wrong assumptions in this article. To begin with, the WTC was not worthless because of asbestos. In fact it had only minimal asbestos insulation and it is the opinion of some people that if there had been more asbestos there might have been more survivors. www.foxnews.com/story/0 ,2933,34342,00.html Next, Larry Silverstein did not "make sure it is over-insured against terrorist acts". The WTC had been a target of a truck bomb in 1993, so the possibility of a terrorist attack was not so farfetched. However Silverstein had most assuredly not over-insured the WTC. In fact, the insurance consortium that handled the enormous insurance policy tried to pay for one and only one plane crash on the interpretation that there had been only one attack on the towers notwithstanding that two planes were used. It took more than a year of really expensive litigation to get the insurers to pay for both towers. If Silverstein seriously expected a major attack he surely would have had the terms of the insurance policy tightened up. Even so, Silverstein's consortium is legally obliged, under the terms of the lease from the Port Authority, to return the WTC in good condition; this means rebuilding it (or at least a part of it) at today's prices and in the meantime Silverstein's consortium is not getting a dime in rents from tenants, so the whole thing is (for the present and the immediate future) a total loss and might turn a profit only after 20 or 30 more years.
Uhhh, yeahhhh. Have you never heard of drones or UAVs? The technology DOES in fact exist (and did prior to 9/11/2001) to fly an airliner remotely. Here's a Boing 720 being flown remotely 17 years before 9/11/2001. Here's a bit more on the Dov Zakheim connection... My hypothesis is that the real planes were hijacked by remotely activated gas cannisters releasing knock out gas (or nerve gas) during flight, disabling or killing passengers and crew. Once the crew was disabled, the plane could be flown to wherever needed, possibily swapped in midair with those which would in fact fly into the towers and the Pentagon. In a swap scenario, a live pilot carrying a gas mask could have been a passenger on the original flight, putting the mask on a precise time. A gas mask may have been stashed under a seat by a ground crew member perhaps. Then the pilot could have flown the plane to a secure location, while the "terror" plane would have been flown to its target remotely. That would explain how those planes acquired that "pod" shown in the above video. http://southeastasianews.org/mai..._pyramid_mega_ritual.html
9/11 was flown by human hands.
Are you trying to say those idiots who couldn't fly a single engine Cessna flew better that day than seasoned airline pilots? The trajectory of the aircraft which hit the Pentagon could NOT have been flown by human hands, not if it was actually a 757. As it entered the Pentagon at the ground level, it flew with its engines about three feet off the Pentagon lawn, level, at over 500 mph. Any REAL 757 would have climbed since lift increases as aircraft approach the ground. The only way to prevent climbing is by decreasing the speed of the aircraft, or by pushing hard on the yoke to bring the nose down. It did not slow down, and if its nose had been pushed down it would have dug a ditch into the lawn and flipped over or broken up. So no, those were not human hands, not onboard the aircraft anyways. You ARE aware that drones utilize human pilots on the ground to fly them, right? Realistically, do you think Mossad agents wish to die for Allah? I do not recall any flying that day that could not have been accomplished by anyone with rudimentary flying skills. Prevost, the IP that first blew the whistle, made it plain, they had no interest in take off or landing training.
How would you explain this......
Politics is the conspiracy of the unproductive but organized against the productive but unorganized. Joseph Sobran
I'd like to waterboard Mr. Abramoff--I'd bet he'd be a wealth of information
Politics is the conspiracy of the unproductive but organized against the productive but unorganized. Joseph Sobran
Cyni, really. if there was nothing to hide and if, in fact, the AA 757 was the jet that flew into the Pentagon, why on earth would the government not show the films from the various surveillance cameras in the area and, instead, confiscate and hide them? How on earth could 19 cave dwellers cause NORAD to stand down over the most protected airspace in the world? Let me show you my husband's post to an acquaintance who believes the Official Fairy Tale. It follows: I usually try to stay away from posting comments on discussion threads as I have found that doing so is a waste of time. Trying to influence someone's already established opinion is not worth the time or effort, as the chance of actually changing another's opinion is infinitesimally small. As such, I am not trying change yours or anyone's opinions about the events of 9/11/01, but rather I would like to share the legitimate questions that I have, as do many others, so that we won't be labeled as conspiracy theorists and "fools" as you have called some who do have questions remaining. I have done an internet search on the percentage of Americans who do not believe the official story of 9/11 and I have found many headlines and articles, such as the one below: Scientific Poll: 84% Reject Official 9/11 Story Only 16% now believe official fable according to New York Times/CBS News poll Most of the polls range from over 50% to close to 90% of nonbelievers. Moreover, the percentages of doubting citizens in other countries are even higher than in the U.S. I, too, have found that there many gaps in the government's official version of the events of 9/11. First of all, the government has stated that right up until the moment that the planes struck the buildings, the government had no idea what was happening -- that they did not intercede because they were caught by surprise. Yet, within 24 hours, they had all of the answers and details of what just went down. They knew the names of all the "players", which countries they were from, where they got their training, etc. Yet, for example, at some third-rate crime scene, it may takes months to collect and analyze evidence before an official theory of what happened is proffered. It even took over 3 weeks for the public to find out what caused the deaths of Michael Jackson and Whitney Houston; and here in Austin, the authorities still don't know all of the details in the Yogurt Shop murders. But with 9/11, the government knew everything within hours of the crime; and now, 11 years later, there has been essentially nothing new added to the story. The story was complete almost immediately. That seemed a little too pat to me. My wife (Christine) and I have taken the time to independently research this subject in some breadth and depth, including our attendance at two separate 2-day seminars that analyzed the events of 9/11. The second seminar was about 16-hours in length and was presented by hundreds of licensed engineers and architects, as well as by chemists and physicists with Ph.D.'s, including world renowned researcher, Dr. Steven Jones, a Physics professor at Brigham Young University. The engineers and architects gave various power-point presentations, all of which concluded with the opinion that Buildings 1 and 2 could not have collapsed as they did solely because of the impact and subsequent fire caused by the airplanes. Moreover, Building 7 (a 47-story steel-structured building) collapsed at about 5 PM that afternoon and it was not hit by an airplane. Some of the points that were presented in the seminar were very interesting, and they raised questions about the government's version of events -- events that were not explainable by the laws of chemistry, physics, or logic. The engineers gave their presentations using an overhead projector. They had actual building/construction plans for Bldgs. 1 and 2. They explained that the Buildings' construction was specifically designed to withstand the impact and/or fire that could be caused by wind, lightning, an earthquake, or an airplane's impact. They stated that an airplane hitting and even penetrating the Buildings would cause no more structural damage than, for example, a sharp object going through a screen or mosquito netting -- that the object might put a hole in the screen, but it would not cause the screen to collapse. So, that led to their analysis of the subsequent fire potentially causing the collapse. They stated that jet fuel does not allow for a fire above a temperature of about 1500 degrees and that the steel columns in the building would not start to stress until the temperature got to about 2700-2900 degrees. Also, heat rises, so the temperature would be dissipating upwards and not downwards to cause a collapse from below. And even if the jet fuel burned at a temperature of 2900, the steel beams would bend and potentially cause a pancake/gravity collapse where every lower floor would cause resistance for the floors above them, which would slow the speed of the collapse. In the seminar, they gave the height of the buildings and then put a stopwatch to the collapse, which indicated that the collapse occurred at virtually free-fall speed, which could not have happened even if the plane and fire stressed the building enough to collapse it. Also, the professor of physics, Steven Jones, presented his findings. He had gotten a sample of the site's molten metal from the steel beams. He found the presence of nano-thermite, which is the substance used in controlled demolitions because it is the one substance that, as stated by Jones, "...will slice through steel like a sharp knife through soft butter..." Also, in attendance at both seminars was a man named, Willie Rodriguez. He was the chief custodian at the World Trade Center buildings for 29 years. He said that he knew every inch of those 2 buildings. He also said that, for several weeks before 9/11, mysteriously he was not allowed to be on certain floors. This had never happened to him before. Rodriguez also stated that he, along with other workers, were in a basement before the planes hit the building; and that they heard and felt explosions going off in subbasements below them. He said that one explosion caused their feet to be lifted off the floor. He later concluded that those explosions served to soften-up the substructure which helped the buildings to collapse later. Also, we watched a video of the Building's owner (Larry Silverstein) say that fires had caused significant damage to Bldg 7 on 9/11, so they discussed the possibility of bringing the building down. He said, "...later that day, they made the decision to pull it, and we watched the building come down...". Silverstein thereby admitted that the Building 7 was imploded. The seminar experts reported that it would have taken months to go through the process of getting permits and then actually wiring a building that size with demolition charges. So it became obvious that the building was already wired. Why? Did Silverstein already know that his building was pre-wired with demolition charges? Who else knew? But here is the critical question: what is the government's (not Silverstein's) official explanation for how and why Building 7 came down. I have never heard or read the government's explanation. I don't want anyone's opinion (expert or layman) of how it came down. I want the government's explanation because I've never heard it. I don't know of anyone who has heard or read what the government said about it. If it exists, that's what I would like to hear. Because 9/11 was a major crime scene and Building 7 represents 1/3 of that crime scene. Yet we know nothing about the government's findings (if they exist) on Building 7. Also, with regard to the Pentagon, it is the most surveilled building in the world. Yet we have no acceptable video of what really happened at that site. Even in photographs, I saw a hole in the Pentagon, but I saw no airplane or its wings. I saw no luggage on the ground or dead passengers. I didn't even see that any part of the lawn had been disturbed in front of the hole. So, there are many unanswered questions in my mind. The official explanations have gaps and remain incomplete. Do citizens have a right to question their government? Or, are we only good citizens if we swallow whole everything it feeds us? Is that a recipe for remaining free? Let's think about the consequences of 9/11. Domestically, we have lost many of our rights to privacy and freedom, via Homeland Security, TSA, NDAA, warrant-less wiretaps/searches, etc. Internationally, we have gone to war in Iraq and Afghanistan -- having spent trillions of dollars. We have had American troops killed and maimed. We initiated war against Iraq, on the premise that Iraq was involved in 9/11 and also had "weapons of mass destruction", but it has now been proven, and admitted by the government, that Iraq never did have WMD and had no involvement in 9/11. We have killed tens of thousands of our alleged enemies, as well as women and children (aka, collateral damage) in Iraq and Afghanistan. All of this based on the government's version of the events of 9/11. I'd say, it's pretty damned important that the government answer all of our questions and stop blowing us off as conspiracy theorists. I'm no conspiracy theorist. I don't have a theory about what happened. The government has the theory. I only have QUESTIONS about what happened; and unfortunately with an insufficiency of answers. I don't want theories, opinions, and answers from lay people, experts, peers, acquaintances, or friends. I want my government to answer my questions -- and it won't. Nor will it answer the questions of 84% of my fellow citizens (as the polls show). But, I guess in your mind, we are "fools" for even asking.
Christine... Somewhere here I posted to tom007 or someone that I found it odd that the twin towers fell within their own footprints. Do I buy 9/11 in its entirety????? Of course not. Do I buy into countless theories of what "really" happened, of course not. The more the event becomes convoluted by endless and erroneous information provided by "experts",the more the governments complicity becomes clouded and hidden. The government welcomes such. If one tries to take but one narrow facet of this event, add a common sense approach to the question, most often the hysteria is false. Example... The aircraft flown into the Pentagon. Using math and law of probability anyone can determine for themselves what happened. If one reads the government transcripts, they list names and home areas of over one hundred people on the ground that saw an aircraft fly into the Pentagon. There were so many eye witnesses that only about fifty were used as they were redundant. Any serious "investigators" have been free for years to do their own questioning of these people. To my knowledge not one person that gave sworn statements, has ever recanted their testimony. The dagger to the heart of this "theory", there was no aircraft, was destroyed, when the landing gear of the aircraft was removed by heavy equipment, for all to see and document. Such simple examples do not deter irrational thinking when a person "wants" to believe otherwise. In my lifetime I have witnessed two large aircraft crashes. When the cleanup was finished for both, what little remained was loaded onto a flatbed truck and hauled away. Four engines, pieces of the tail, bits and pieces, the landing gear, no wings, no fuselage. One has to be sensible, logical, and not run off into dark alleys because they WANT to believe. Do I believe 9/11 was a conspiracy???? Most certainly. Was our government in on it or at least had fore knowledge??? Certainly. Do I believe that what over 100 witnesses saw is all a conspiracy??? Of course not.
It's interesting what you say about "latency". When you watch simulations of the WTC 767 approaches that show the yoke and rudder work involved in hitting these targets, it's apparent that at those speeds considerable piloting skills are involved. Adding the delays in a feedback loop component of remote control would certainly complicate matters. I tried some similar maneuvers at less than half the speed in a four engine simulator some time before 911 and I think what was done that day was accomplished by expert hands. I am of course not an expert, but the flight instructor in this video is. Listen to what he has to say about veteran pilot attempts to recreate the WTC hits. randge... I did my homework on enlightening myself on the term "latency" and the experience that the military acknowledges, about their problems with "remote controlled" flight...not programmed flying. For instance, it is possible for a "pilot" sitting in an armchair in Colorado, flying a remote control aircraft in Pakistan, to suffer vertigo. The military has been very open about their huge losses via accidents etc etc due to remote control. They have been at it for years, performed by highly trained pilots and engineers and they have continual problems. Penetrating the Pentagon at low level did not take anyone with ten thousand flying hours. Plus it stretches common sense to believe that random aircraft were pre programmed or remotely controlled with such ease, yet we are still in the infancy of remote control. Further, Clancy Prevost, local gentleman, that started the investigation PRIOR TO 9/11 never voiced any belief or interest in "remote controlled" as credible. Prevost started the investigation LONG PRIOR TO 9/11. That is how the FBI had "prior knowledge" and they considered Prevost as being paranoid. Prevost had education and experience that exceeded most others. Former Navy pilot, retired airline pilot, years as instructor pilot and he knew something was amiss when all the students WITH NO PREVIOUS FLYING TIME AND WERE ONLY INTEREST IN "FLYING" large jet aircraft, No interest in landing and takeoffs. When Moussaoui paid his bill with eight thousand dollars in cash with non circulated bills, Prevost insisted the FBI take a closer look, that something was being planned. Too many good people have been led down false trails that common sense dictates are false. They need to go back to the very first public inclination that something was amiss. Prevost was the first and foremost qualified person to sense something was going to happen. Arguing endlessly of what hit the Pentagon defies common sense. Just one of the false trails that have obscured reality.
Eye whitnesses are notoriously unreliable. Better to rely on the official NSIT report issued years later for the truth. snark Burning furniture. Seriously, that is what a NSIT suit said on record. Burning furniture - dwell on that for a moment to see what liars are all about. May have been the same NSIT guy who said, straight faced, that there were NO REPORTS OF EXPLOSIONS REPORTED BY ANY SOURCE. And I don't think openly burning jet fuel will reach much more than 700 F. Snoora seems an expert. Ask her - She knows the godless Arabs did it. And we should get a donation jar going for poor Larry Silverstien who took a huge loss from all that gold from WTC 7. Israel did this to the United States People. We are all Gaza now, we may just not yet realize it. Yet. Hi C, Another factoid. As C has told Rodregis (sp) a long time employee of the WTC, stated he was denied access to parts of the building for w few weeks before 9-11. Paul Bremmer, the future King of Iraq, had his office in the blacked out part of the tower. On 9-11 Paul was not at his office - he was in NYC that morning at the major TV networks being interviewed, as the buildings were burning, as saying Iraq and Saddam were responsible for the attack. Additionally broadcast in the world's media were a phony video of the "Laughing Palistine Womens" presented as news to show how the Palistines were gleeful for the attacks. Who would have done such a dispicable piece of slander, I wonder? Better to rely on the official NSIT report issued years later for the truth. snark In that context yes. People believe the man that was there, as do I, yet the same people say the 120 people that saw an American airliner fly into the Pentagon are unreliable or dishonest. Therein is the crux of this problem. Believe one when it fits, disbelieve 120 when it does not fit with a desired outcome.
NIST actually addressed Bldg 7 and said the cause was burning furniture? And how did the furniture ignite in a couple of offices only, btw. It is just mindblowing what people will allow this lying government to get away with and do NO CRITICAL THINKING OR ANALYSIS of their own. It makes me furious!
excellent video. i hadn't seen that one before.
Christine... Do I believe the three building were "brought" down???? Yes indeed I do. However I have zero expertise as to how and by whom and in that mode I refuse to be led down false trails that serve no one but this government. Experts that sell their views because they are experts but were not there have to be weighed with caution.
I am taking account of all you say about the remote control of aircraft. It is all quite credible. What I don't find credible is the proposition that amateurs were at the controls of those Boeing aircraft. In both the Pentagon and thed WTC attacks the aircraft were operating at or outside of the design limits for aircraft of their type & at that altitude. There was some flying done that day, and it wasn't done by some yokels who didn't have time to learn how to land multi-engine aircraft. Honestly, Cyni, I don't claim to know what transpired that day, but I know when things don't add up. we all have to decide for ourselves what makes SENSE to us. after having viewed the video that randge posted, i'm even more convinced that it was not possible for a 757 to be flown into the Pentagon. i believe the witnesses saw something, but it wasn't a 757. there are also eyewitnesses who give testimony which contradicts those who say they saw an AA jetliner.
i wholeheartedly agree.
The implications are enormous.
randge... It is indeed very credible. Back in my day, it was desirable for bomber crews to have others besides the two pilots that could "fly" the aircraft if circumstances forced the issue. In my case, the bombardier and the flight engineer both could and did fly the aircraft. Make a takeoff or landing? No. Crash landing or ditching, yes. What is so different from a crash landing with gear up or a ditching, than what those people did? Also these men were not camel drivers picked up from the Sahara. The main one had degrees in mathematics and his father was a noted surgeon in Egypt. These days the majority of flight training in via simulator, as actual flight time is very expensive.
Yeah, I know a loadmaster who as a master sergeant flew C-130s over the Atlantic while the officers caught some nap time. But this wasn't just keeping the wingtips level, Cyni. Check for yourself the speed and altitude at which these planes were being tasked to perform. They were flying MUCH faster at sea level than they were designed to be flown. Those Boeings would have been quite a handful, even for an experienced pilot. Let me know what you think of the video that I posted. You must not have been paying much attention then over the past 11 years to any of the facts related to what those aircraft did that day. It is physically impossible for a 757 to have flown the way it did into the Pentagon. This is due to ground effect and the fact that it came from tree top level down to ground level and FLEW at ground level over the lawn till it hit the bottom floor of the Pentagon and INTO the Pentagon at over 500 mph. Do you know anything at all about aerodynmamic Cyni? Have you even read anything at all about the fact the alleged "pilot", Hani Hanjour, had been kicked out of flight school because he basically "could not fly at all"? Hani Hanjour: 9/11 Pilot Extraordinaire 9/11-The Impossibility of Flying Heavy Aircraft Without Training What it comes down to is that Flight 77, IF piloted by Hanjour, would have simply dived into the Pentagon from the side the aircraft approached it rather than spiraling down to tree top level and hitting the Pentagon on the opposite side, especially since the approach had first lined it up with the side containing Rumsfeld's office. The actual impact was into a recently reinforced wall of the Pentagon, and was infinitely more difficult to achieve than a what a simple dive from the original approach would have accomplished. Implications of the Part of the Pentagon Struck on September 11th That's besides all the other aspects of flight that would be beyond any of the so-called "hijackers", many of whom are still alive and well, as per the BBC and other global news agencies. Any serious "investigators" have been free for years to do their own questioning of these people. To my knowledge not one person that gave sworn statements, has ever recanted their testimony. There have been some which said the plane hit the lawn and spun into the Pentagon. That of course did not happen. Hate to be the one to tell you this Cyni, but people DO lie. PS: Note the team of individuals exiting a bus at 0:44 into the video. Note the large bags they are carrying, stuffed to the gills with SOMETHING. Hmmm, might that something be the "parts" that they claim to have "found" on the lawn later that day? According to WHO Cyni, YOU? What is the basis of your opinion? A simple hunch? It was physically IMPOSSIBLE for a 757 to have flown into the ground level of the Pentagon at the speed that it did, and if you have any desire to really understand that, the math and science is readily available. A CRUISE missile on the other hand CAN accomplish that sort of flight and COULD have been what actually hit the Pentagon. That, or a remote controlled fighter jet may have been used. Either could have been painted to appear as a American Airlines passenger jet. Thing is Cyni, you apparently have taken the bait and followed those false trails, while ignoring the REAL trails since you think those real trails are false. Cyni, are you even aware of the fact that some of the 9/11 "pilots" are still alive? Hijack 'suspects' alive and well [BBC] Revealed: the men with stolen identities [The Telegraph - UK] MANY 9- 11 "HIJACKERS" ARE STILL ALIVE. One other thing Cyni. Are you aware of the hard data concerning Mossad agents linked to the events of that day?
And that they were let out of the US shows the depth of jewish corruption extant in the DOJ. A "crash landing" is not done at full throttle while accelerating to the maximum speed of the aircraft. It is done by reducing the throttle to landing speed, and keeping the nose up till the tail is about to hit the ground, and THEN levelling off. Flight 77 was effectively "landed" on the Pentagon lawn while flying at over 500 mph with the nose level, which is impossible. And to top it off, not one engine or wing tip kissed the ground during this amazing feat. Pretty damn good for a pilot who "couldn't fly at all", eh? It isn't just the DOJ, the orders to release them had to come from the top. Not to mention that the news media did not question this rather odd development whatsoever. What this gentleman saw, was witnessed by hundreds of other people from all walks of life. I forgot to mention that the "pilot" of this rogue aircraft had been licensed as a commercial pilot by the FAA since 1999. Not an amatuer.
Again, check the FAA records, the pilot had been a professional commercial pilot since 1999.
Exactly. I forgot to mention that the "pilot" of this rogue aircraft had been licensed as a commercial pilot by the FAA since 1999. Not an amatuer. Thing is, his flight instructors called the FAA to find out if his license was real, since he was not qualified to possess it. Besides the fact he couldn't fly an airplane, he could barely speak or understand English, and speaking English is a prerequisite for an FAA license. From How the FBI and 9/11 Commission Suppressed Key Evidence about Hani Hanjour But it wasn’t just his poor English that failed to impress. In his evaluation the Jet Tech flight instructor wrote that the “student [Hanjour] made numerous errors during his performance and displayed a lack of understanding of some basic concepts. The same was true during review of systems knowledge….I doubt his ability to pass an FAA [Boeing 737] oral at this time or in the near future.” The 737 instructor concluded his evaluation with a final entry: “He [Hanjour] will need much more experience flying smaller A/C [aircraft] before he is ready to master large jets.”[9] The 9/11 Commission Report fails to discuss or even mention this negative written evaluation, even while presenting Hanjour’s substandard performance in a Boeing 737 simulator as sufficient evidence that Hanjour could fly a Boeing 757, an even larger plane![10] The wording of the final report succeeds in giving this impression, however dubious, even while obscuring the facts: an amazing achievement of propaganda. Early in 2001, Peggy Chevrette, the operation manager at Jet Tech, repeatedly conveyed her concerns about Hanjour to the FAA. Eventually John Anthony, a federal inspector, showed up at the school and examined Hanjour’s credentials. But Anthony found them in order and took no further action. The inspector even suggested that Jet Tech provide Hanjour with an interpreter. This surprised Chevrette because it was a violation of FAA rules. “The thing that really concerned me,” she later told FOX News, “Was that John had a conversation in the hallway with Hani and realized what his skills were at that point and his ability to speak English.”[11] Evidently, the inspector also sat in on a class with Hanjour. Show me some documented proof of his flight experience. You will find NO "professional experience", since the man couldn't even fly a single engine plane. Apparently he was handed this "license" as part of the "Legend". From Wiki No, you need to do your own homework, it is sadly lacking. If you desire to have the information, call or write to FAA HQ in Washington, they will be happy to provide you with the proper office for such information. That information will give you the names of his instructors, the name of the flight school and the FAA examiners that certified him for a commercial license. Of course all of those people nearly fifteen years ago were probaly in on the event??? Right?? eh????
What it comes down to Cyni is that you're saying Hanjour, who couldn't fly at all, pulled off a physically impossible feat with a large multi-engine aircraft. Besides, there were no Arabs onboard Flight 77... Autopsy: No Arabs on Flight 77 [Edited: provided more detailed info at updated link] Perhaps Allah did it for him by him praying from his apartment that morning, eh? You are projecting Cyni. You have ZERO proof that Hanjour could fly, yet you attribute him with superhuman abilities to pull off the impossible. If you bothered to look at all, the comments of his flight instructors are there for the world to see. The man COULD NOT FLY AT ALL. If I were an investigator with the power to pry into official government records, I'd more than likely hit a brick wall when delving into the identity of the person who handed Hanjour his "commerical license". The identity would more than likely turn out to be fake, or that of a person who "recently passed away". It is YOU who claims to have first hand knowledge of the fact this dolt who couldn't fly at all had "professional experience" as a commerical pilot. So go ahead, name the companies he flew for as a commercial pilot. 9/11 was flown by human hands. And the proof of this assertion is? Because the Nightly Nooze said so? Because the White House Spokesliar said so? The U.S. Government has never provided one iota of solid information tying the 19 magickal Ayerabs nor Osama Bin Dead since 2001 to the events of 9/11/2001. None, nada, zeeeeeeeero. It has all been done by assertion and pronouncement repeated over and over and over. BUT, where's the beef? Point of interest... In testimony by FAA radar controllers who were watching the aircraft on radar, they stated they considered the aircraft to being flown by someone of superior piloting skill because of the maneuvers executed. (humor) Of course the aircraft could have been flown by the American Captain, who was not aboard but rather sitting in a casino in Las Vegas, with a remote joy stick.) Hey, anything is possible, right????
There was no plane. wud... If someone offers expert proof that there was NO Pentagon involved, I will give up. This is interesting as the government doles out disinformation to con the troops. "Ever since this "no-plane" theory has been planted on the 9-11 truth movement, the corporate media inevitably seizes on it as a means to ridicule those who do not accept the official story of 9-11. One obvious example is the March 2005 issue of Popular Mechanics, which used the "no-plane" theory to summarily dismiss any and all doubters of the official story as a munch of nuts that all correct-thinking loyal Americans should ever listen to. Which is what the no-plane hoax is intended to do".
That would all be true if.... There was a plane. There was no plane. They were talking about the descent from 7000 feet to 2000 feet in a spiraling 330 degree turn. There was no way for them to see on radar what the plane did when it was flying at tree top level. There were planes wud, just not the ones they were claimed to have been. In the case of the Pentagon, it more than likely was a cruise missile painted as an American Airlines 757. I don't think so.
freedom4um.com/cgi-bin/re...ArtNum=148199&Disp=64#C64
I didn't see one. Did you ever personally see China wud? Just because YOU didn't see it doesn't mean it wasn't or isn't there. And oh yeah, forgot to mention that the "pilot" was the same Hani Hanjour who couldn't fly a Cessna. Noone saw it. Except on tv. You are in denial wud. It wasn't just captured on video by MANY news agencies, people in New York actually saw it happen live. That, and the witnesses in Washington saw SOME type of aircraft approaching the Pentagon. I just love watching the mental contortions of the conspiracists. I tell all of them I'll give them 10,000 years and they'll never prove ONE of their hallucinations. I sense a disturbance in the farce. Much gnashing will ensue.
There was a plane. There was no plane. That may be it, W. First hit a Global Hawk, the second hit is more interesting. A British investigator seems to have a recording from the news helio that was up by that point as it was transmitted real time from the aircraft. What I saw on that video feed was a LOT different than what I saw on CNN, but certainly was from the same camera. Dwell on that. So he is saying this evidence is absolute proof that a photoshopped feed was fed to us that fate filled day. He postulates that a missile was fired from another helio that did the damage, and that is pretty much what you see on what he is claiming to be the real feed, not the shopped one we saw. Nearly ANYTHING makes more sense than the Official Conspiracy. Yes, they assumed they were mil jets, not people movers. There were planes wud, just not the ones they were claimed to have been. In the case of the Pentagon, it more than likely was a cruise missile painted as an American Airlines 757. Something along those lines. An Honest Commission or if we had an FBI worth the name we would have gotten to the bottom of this in one week. But that is the LAST THING the gov within a gov wants. You have never proven ONE thing here Turtle, yet claim to know everything. You feel yourself smarter than everyone else, yet know nothing at all about what you're talking about. wud.. Wheres de plane boss, wheres de plane????? hehehehehehehehehe
tom... All airlines have parameters concerning aircraft maneuvers allowed by their pilots. Rate of climb or descent and degree of bank. Infrequent fliers get scared as hell when they look out the window and they are looking down. Anything outside those limits are noticed. I remember years ago, when was with olde CAA, there was a Pan Am 707 that went on its back at altitude. The pilot was out of his seat, managed to get back in his seat and with first officer, they brought it out of a dive. They landed at Gander, no major injuries. The aircraft had to be junked, never flew again. The auto pilot had malfunctioned. You will appreciate this, it will escape most. At Gander, during the investigation, for some unknown reason, someone did a random check of the aircraft for radiation and it was way above normal expectations and allowances. Alarm bells went off as this was during cold war. Where had the aircraft been to become radioactive. It had flown thru the airborne debris from an unannounced Russian A test. The government is mostly bad but not all bad, mostly stupid but not all stupid.
9/11 - Explosive Evidence - Experts Speak Out, Full-length tinyurl.com/blf8t32
that is a saver, thanks. Amazing at how fast 11 years passes.
"Even to the death fight for truth, and the LORD your God will battle for you". Sirach 4:28
They knew he was NOT a military jet. The AA jet had TURNED OFF HIS TRANSPONDER. With transponder off, it was much more difficult to follow him, he then becomes an unknown, his maneuvers were beyond normal airline aircraft, which prompted the controllers later to testify that his flying had been very good. The DNA for every person involved was obtained with exception of one small boy. One person actually made it alive to the hospital alive, died later. I do not recall if was on aircraft or Pentagon employee.
Have you ever considered the possibility that what you believe is exactly what someone wants you to believe?????
Burning furniture. Seriously, that is what a NSIT suit said on record. Burning furniture - dwell on that for a moment to see what liars are all about. May have been the same NSIT guy who said, straight faced, that there were NO REPORTS OF EXPLOSIONS REPORTED BY ANY SOURCE. And I don't think openly burning jet fuel will reach much more than 700 F. Snoora seems an expert. Ask her - She knows the godless Arabs did it. And we should get a donation jar going for poor Larry Silverstien who took a huge loss from all that gold from WTC 7. Israel did this to the United States People. First, it's NIST National Institute of Standards and Technology not NSIT. And the 9/11 commission report said that they could not determine the cause of Bldg 7's collapse. Quote: "Snoora seems an expert. Ask her - She knows the godless Arabs did it." The screen name is Shoonra and he's a man. And Shoonra is the name of The Israeli Cat Site.
I'm just looking at the facts Cyni. It's not a matter of belief, it's a matter of knowing what the facts are, and what is possible and what isn't. And not one "hijacker's" DNA was found at the Pentagon. You're welcome. Yep, time passes by faster each year.
Matter of fact, the hi jackers were indeed found and identified. I cannot recall if it was four or six men that were identified that way. The families of the AA crew and of the passengers were all satisfied with the DNA and numerous personal effects that were returned from the Pentagon.
Thats good to hear. If you read all my posts on this subject, you will find I have always been of the personal opinion that the 9/11 event was orchestrated by or at least with full knowledge by those in our government. No one despises this corrupt government more than me. Having worked within that government and military for many years, I refuse to let them run me down dark alleys on wild goose chases. It is in their interest to obscure 9/11 as much as possible. There are portions of that event that happened just as they say, what they are not saying is that someone knew about it aforehand, that remains hidden, but the hard physical evidence is just as presented. The endless theories presented by good honest people are actually welcomed because it just further clouds the event and confuses the people. There are still people that believe there was a sneak attack on Pearl Harbor by the Japanese. The government knew it was coming, invited it and then feigned shock and dismay when it happened. Millions of citizens support the endless wars in the Middle East because they know what the bad guys did on 9/11.
Noone(222) despises this corrupt government more than me. There, that's perfect. "In an unjust society, the only place for a just man is prison." Thoreau
I think intelligent folks can agree that the government's storyline is pure fiction, fabricated nonsense. At the same time various factions have supplied information to the public that has to be considered suspect. One obvious fact is that hardly any video has surfaced even though the target area was one of the most secure in the UNIVERSE. Since the immediate subject is the Pentagram, I'd ask "where are the videos" clearly showing a commercial jet hitting it. ? I would be the first to admit that my conclusions regarding this event are speculative and based upon what I consider tainted info. I can't tell you what happened that day but it's not what we've been told. "In an unjust society, the only place for a just man is prison." Thoreau
9/11 was well above my pay grade. That being true and being a natural born cynic, none of it passed the smell test.
Did you neglect to check out the informtion I posted for you which states NO Arab DNA was found at the crash site, and no hijackers remains were identified by the autopsy, according to a FOIA request? I know that was sarcasm Cyni, where the proper wording would have been they THINK they know. Yet those people are obviously math and science challenged where they never learned anything beyond simple high school science and basic math. To a college educated person familiar with physics and math, the manner in which the towers collapsed was impossible without controlled demolotion. To those familiar with aerodynamics, it is impossible for a 757 to have flown as low as it did at over 500 mph and strike the ground floor with its engines buzzing 3 feet off the ground, which is where they'd have to be for the aircraft to enter the Pentagon in the manner in which it did. It is also impossible for any of the "hijackers" to have survived and proceeded with their lives as normal, yet at least some of those identified as hijackers are still alive and are going on with their lives in their native lands. Some of the wacky theories set forth in regards to 9/11 can be easily dismissed, but when the events are explained away with irrational assumations, such as a 757 flown by a flight school washout managed to achieve the impossible and defy the laws of physics and probability, well, that's as much a diversion away from the true facts as any of those other wacky theories. But at least you can agree that the official story is pure fantasy, and that the events of that day were welcomed by those at the top in order to bring about a totaltarian form of control over the populace, along with great wealth for themselves and their cohorts. What you need to know about the British-Israel World Foundation "In the late 1930s, the British Israel World Federation Movement's Destiny Magazine published articles identifying September 2001 as the target date for beginning their planned global theocratic state -- a"Kingdom of Heaven on Earth." Jordan Maxwell presents the following ultra-high-resolution scans of the ORIGINAL ARTICLES so you can see for yourself what these people have been talking privately about for generations in their own publications...." "Great Pyramid Prophecy" for "Rebirth of Civilization" etc. "...September 17th, 2001 A.D. is the date of the new moon heralding the Feast of Trumpets ushering in the Millennium, at 6,000 years of GREAT PYRAMID cronology from the autumnal equinoctial full moon (astronomical), 4,000 B.D. The date, September 17th, 2001 A.D. is defined by the GREAT PYRAMID's inch-month scale of chronology (The Great Pyramid's Prophecy Concerning the British Empire and America, Plate 1, page 5)...." etc. etc. http://www.cephas-library.com/british-israel-2.html "Birth of Jesus Christ September 11, 3 B.C." http://www.cephas-library.com/british-israel-3.html / http://www.cortright.org/revsign.htm search "the great pyramid prophecy concerning the british empire and america" READ IT BEFORE IT'S BANNED BY THE US GOVERNMENT - PART 27 By Thomas R. Horn October 13, 2009 [re US Great Seal and Great Pyramid] http://www.newswithviews.com/Horn/thomas126.htm THE WITNESS OF THE GREAT PYRAMID "The Great Pyramid is a symbol of the Christ, Head and Body (Jesus and His Church)......." [more likely the Witness of ANTIChrist. Remember what Cornwallis told George Washington...Holy War against America...churches teaching Jews' Religion...America working toward Divine Government = the British Empire overseen by the Grand Architect of Freemasonry.] "...England and the U.S.A., having led the nations into the false cul-de-sac of industrialism, it is only right that they, the building race, should be the shock absorbers for the rest of the nations, and now once more be the first to lead the nations from the material age into the age of spiritual power....." http://www.ensignmessage.com/archives/pyramid.html Re: "the building race" see the British-Israel World Foundation on 9/11 and all the numerology associated with it in "The Building Race Acts to Pattern"...oh yeah, and this: "....The actual battleline date for the initiation of the war on terrorism was 16th-17th September, 2001, being 1600 days, the number of Divine judgment given in Revelation 14:20, from the beginning of Tony Blair's premiership on 1st-2nd May, 1997. The Times, London, for 17th September, 2001, said "The countdown towards America's fight-back against terror begins today." Strange to say the address of the White House in Washington is 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue. On Sunday evening 16th September, 2001, Tony Blair emerged from 10 Downing Street to stand before the microphones and state "We are at war with terrorism." This quotation in fact formed the main headline on The Times, London, on 17th September, 2001, being the Feast of Trumpets that year. [17th-22nd September, 2001, was a defining point in time seen by David Davidson and Bernard Nicklin some 60 or 70 years previously in their studies of the structural symbolism of The Great Pyramid's Divine Message and of Divine Time Measures in day-period chronology; as was the date of 19th March, 1994, and the "Exodus" from "The Field of Mixed Seed."]....." www.britishisrael.co.uk/showart.php?id=26 . Nothing's changed! They are still talking that shiite! More British-Israel [ www.seekgod.ca/identity.htm ] Fables "...America and Great Britain have lost their way but are now finding it again in this valley of disappointment and tears; and through this present collapse of the Babylonian economic system which we have followed all these centuries, our people will find their way to Jehovah their God, and to His Kingdom. (Well the West - the nations of Israel, the house of Judah, and the people of Russia, were yet, at the writing of this book, to go through a time of trouble not seen the like of up to that time in history. And it will all be repeated again, for the THIRD (first and second World Wars being the first two times) TIME around, and it will be a time of trouble such as never before and never will be again. Then Jesus will come and put a stop to mankind blowing themselves to oblivion. Israel and Judah will be saved out of it, brought back to the Promised Land, restored, and Christ will reign as King of kings and Lord of lords from Jerusalem, sitting on the throne of David - Keith Hunt) "Who bath heard such a thing? who hath seen such things? Shall the earth be made to bring forth in one day? or shall a nation be born at once? for as soon as Zion, travailed, she brought forth her children."--Isaiah 66:8......" http://www.keithhunt.com/Isra19.html Does this have some connection to this: "Strange Illuminati Clock Counting Down to Sept. 9th, 2012 » Philosophers stone A very strange count down is going on at a website called “illuminati order” and is to end September 9th 2012 at 13:23:33. No one on YT who has posted about this knows what it is counting down to, yet is causing a small stir on the internet. Feel free to leave a comment of what you may think this is about. The first page shows a disk with “Academia Omni LVX” and what seems to be a count down and a puzzle combination. Some have speculated that it might be a countdown concerning the closing of the Paralympics in London; Festival of Flaims; 9/9/12 -- 9+9+1+2 = 21/Blackjack/ Operation Blackjack/Ref: The telegraph; Academi the new name for Blackwater/Xe. Also, a commenter at Smoking Mirrors with the screen-name "Falseflag Sept.9,2012?" is concerned about a football stadium strike as a pretext for war on Iran." http://freedom4um.com/cgi-bin/re...ArtNum=147738&Disp=27#C27 ============= GreyLmist, do you care to make some sense out of their fatal attraction for the Hegelian Dialectic [they cause the problem, the reaction, and the solution...voila!]? IMO, the Israelis may have carried out the attacks, but are merely stooges for those loony Judeo-Brits. [ www.seekgod.ca/identity.htm ] P.S. Note the AntiChrist Masonic Floundering Fathers [in cahoots with the British] set us up from the beginning [again, Hegelian Dialectic]: http://watch.pair.com/death-phoenix.html "...as long as there..remain active enemies of the Christian church, we may hope to become Master of the World...the future Jewish King will never reign in the world before Christianity is overthrown - B'nai B'rith speech http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/luther.htm / http://bible.cc/psalms/83-4.htm
http://www.cephas-library.com/british-israel-3.html / http://www.cortright.org/revsign.htm The Jews call Him "Yeshu": acronym [?] for: "May his name be blotted out/forgotten". Now we call September 11 Patriot's Day or some such thing, and ring bells [signifying sacrifice to baal?] for all the victims holocausted by the antichrist NWO on Christ's b'day. "...as long as there..remain active enemies of the Christian church, we may hope to become Master of the World...the future Jewish King will never reign in the world before Christianity is overthrown - B'nai B'rith speech http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/luther.htm / http://bible.cc/psalms/83-4.htm
They exist and if they showed a 787 the perps would have released them. Not only were there public cameras which may have (or SHOULD have) caught the approach, ie. those of the (never released) Virginia DOT, Doubletree Hotel (doesn't show a plane), and Citgo station (doesn't show a plane), but there were a number of cameras on the roof of the Pentagon itself which would have recorded the actual approach of any aircraft as clear as day. Those Pentagon videos have never been released. Now WHY would that be if they actually DID show what approached the Pentagon that morning of 9/11/2001? They would have plastered them on TV 24/7 for months if those videos did in fact support the "Flight 77 hit the Pentagon" claim. That the FBI confiscated the public videos immediately after the event and did not release them till years later, with the exception of the Virginia DOT video which STILL hasn't been released, indicates that those who pull the strings of the FBI were in on the Pentagon attack, and obviously, the entire 9/11 attack alltogther. It follows that those who pull the strings of the Pentagon knew full well what those Pentagon tapes contained, and it is why they will never be released. Flight 77 was a 757, but yeah, exactly. That they haven't played those videos over and over on Fox News, CNN, ABC/CBS/NBC, etc., indicates the videos prove that Flight 77 did NOT hit the Pentagon. One other thing about all this is the ongoing coverup. This is not just a Bush administration crime, it is a crime perpetrated by those who continue to act as if it were truly bin Laden who masterminded this thing, knowing full well that it's a huge lie, and having the power to bring those behind it to justice yet fail to do so. The news media, the politicians, the military, they are all complicit in the coverup, which is a bad as the original crime itself. OBL was another patsy, just as Lee Harvey Oswald in the JFK assassination. He never had a thing to do with 9-11. It was an inside job. "When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall, one by one." Edmund Burke
The Happy Hooligans, an air defense company based in North Dakota, was on call for the events of 9-11. I know of a retired Colonel (now deceased) whose son was assigned to this unit. He told me that they never got an order to intercept those commercial airliners. They would have been shot down once they turned off their transponders and deviatated from their flight plans. "When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall, one by one." Edmund Burke
The corruption is at the very top, and there are apparently a good number of top officials in all branches of government who are totally and completely compromised. Don't see any other explanation for any of it. I heard that it was a cruise missile that hit the Pentagon. I saw a film clip taken from a security camera at a parking gate. It sure did not look like a commercial aircraft that flew into the Pentagon. "When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall, one by one." Edmund Burke
Whatever it was, it wasn't a 757, thus was not Flight 77 as claimed.
Don't see any other explanation for any of it. Donn's first book was titled, "Barbarians Inside the Gates". I still have a copy of it somewhere, or, I could private message you with his widow's phone number and you could call her and buy it from her. He wrote four books in all. I've seen three of them. Hope to get a website back online before too long and put them all up for sale. "When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall, one by one." Edmund Burke
I'd be really curious as to what those roof cameras captured that morning, wouldn't you? You have what evidence that they "actually" saw it live? I guess a missle might have hit the pentagon, but there's little, if any, evidence of it. By way of Deception, thou shalt do war
The truth is stranger than fiction.
Wheres de plane boss, wheres de plane????? hehehehehehehehehe Yeah, real funny. Hahahahaha... good to see your able to entertain yourself over there, Cyni :) Never in the history of the planet, has one, let alone three, structural steel skyscrapers completely collapsed from any type of fire, be it that there was SFRM(Spray-Applied Fire-Resistive Materials)or not. As a matter of fact, there has never even been a failure of a main vertical girder. Now, there has been some localized horizontal collapse of small sections of steel skyscrapers that had suffered through some horrific fires that burned much hotter and longer than those three on 911, but those collapse stop because there is not enough energy to keep the collapse going. Lastly, the Jersey Girls, who had family die that day, the very ones that forced the Bush administration to finally investigate that day, do not believe the governments official theory of what happened. Why should I? Mark “Fascism should more appropriately be called Corporatism because it is a merger of state and corporate power” ― Benito Mussolini
Why should I? We all obviously should not. And , really, the details of how it happened aren't too important, the big picture here is all that matters. The Greatest Human Crime that ever has been perpetuated on a globe occurred on 9-11. And a pox on (military) Popular Mechanics. I guess a missle might have hit the pentagon, but there's little, if any, evidence of it. Wud, I know you mean well. Please don't take it as an insult, but if you bothered doing any sort of research into 9/11 you'd know that it's 99.8% likely that planes hit the WTC towers, and some sort of cruise missile hit the Pentagon. If you contemplate the fact that those who are involved with the actual events of that day are actively covering up this information that we are talking about here with false paths, you'd consider the strong possibililty that the "no planes" idea is flat out improbable, unlikely, and more than likely one of those false leads. There is enough 100% pure scientific data to crucify the perps without jumping to questionable theories with little or no collaborating evidence. Sure, IF there were no planes well that'd be one hell of an exercise in deceipt on the part of hundreds of witnesses and news crews. But there is enough tangible evidence to demonstrate that the events of that day were in no way related to 19 Arab "terrorists", but were in fact part of a large scale military/espionage operation played out by the Israeli Mossad, Pakistani ISI, and the highest levels of the US government. There is no need to follow bizarre stories which do not follow logic or probability, and which have no basis in scientific reality. Exactly. And judging from former Israeli Prime Minister (and current Israeli Defense Minister) Barak's statements starting at 7:35 into the video, it is he who is directing US foreign policy, as all of the "enemies" listed are those who were later attacked and destroyed by the US with the exception of Iran, whom they are demanding we attack ASAP. The loss of our rights appear to have been planned by him and his treacherous pals as well. I do not take most people seriously, never myself. One person told me the plane was in the Atlantic, one said it was seen in Mexico unloading passengers. Odd part??? None of the passengers and crew have ever appeared. See the problem right there????
There are a LOT of questions here.
True... However far too many people are stumbling over odds and ends, bits and pieces, going up blind alleys, all of which the government loves. In 1941, we the rubes, had no idea we had been lied to, conned, scammed, we just got in line and did what we were told. No one ever went to prison, the Supreme Court said no one was to blame. They lied too. We gain absolutely nothing chasing shadows on 9/11, in fact it helps the criminals to obscure the entire event, just as the Supreme court obscured Pearl Harbor. Frankly, without a full fledged revolution and dragging all those in government at the time, into court, nothing will ever come of this. A ready firing squad loosens the lips of men, they babble endlessly to save their own skin. Other than that, it will take another fifty years for the truth to see the light of day. We do not have that long.
Being that the Romney team is made up of a large number of 9/11 perps, I think we have EVERYTHING to lose if we don't speak out fast and loud. Or should it be "fast and furious"... http://www.september11ne ws .com/Sept11History.htm: According to Hebrew scriptures September 11, 1999 was the 6,000th anniversary of Adam's creation, and year 1 on the Hebrew calendar. ------- "They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
Well said, but what evidence do you have that planes hit the wtc? I agree this no plane theory is based solely on video evidence manipulated by the media to obscure the identity of the planes that actually hit the towers. If it was shown that it wasn't Americans Airlines or United planes that hit the Towers then everyone would start questioning the government's and media's story. God is always good!
I find it interesting that the general public have little if "any" direct first hand knowledge of the passengers allegedly aboard the planes that day. We have seen some on TV, some are thought to be married to well known persons like Ted Olson but unless you walk amongst these dark shadowy personalities all you really know has been fed to you. I'm simply saying that most info that the general public has is fed to them like pablum to a baby. One other thing I think important is that there were NO ARAB/MUSLIM names on the passenger lists of any of the planes involved. Maybe all of those arabs dressed up like white Europeans to evade detection ????? We've been bullshitted by the best bullshitters in the business. "In an unjust society, the only place for a just man is prison." Thoreau
True but there is no need in aiding them to keep spreading the material. See what happens when there is one naysayer thrown in with a pack of hot blooded conspiracy hounds???? One hundred thirty posts. I charge by the post. hehehehehe
I knew you were in it for the money ! (hehehe) "In an unjust society, the only place for a just man is prison." Thoreau
Dont let it get around but Christine is very poor at paying. I been thinking of taking her to court.
I been thinking of taking her to court. You better hope for a female judge. "In an unjust society, the only place for a just man is prison." Thoreau
Well, she is guilty, I submit my bills and she ignores them. If I feel good again today, will see if can find a thread that needs a naysayer. Akin to jabbing a stick into yellow jackets nest. One little poke and bzzzzzzz out they come, ready to do battle. I could run, but am to olde for that, so I pull out my smoke pot and cloud the issue so they get lost. Never fails.
It took 444 days before an investigation was begun. And the 9-11 commission was never charged with finding out what happened, only how it could be prevented from happening again. A charade from the git go. The news media, the politicians, the military, they are all complicit in the coverup, which is a bad as the original crime itself. Yes indeed. This is an ongoing crime. Don't see any other explanation for any of it. Any challenges to this? A charade using time, smoke and mirrors to confuse, disarm and destroy any concerted effort looking for the truth.
A charade from the git go. No mention of building #7 in their report - facade is really generous. "In an unjust society, the only place for a just man is prison." Thoreau
Cynicom: A charade using time, smoke and mirrors to confuse, disarm and destroy any concerted effort looking for the truth. The entire 9/11 charade could itself be called a Directed Energy-Weapon with a "blooming effect" to defocus and disperse our energy (especially the Patriotic sort) into the atmosphere haphazardly but No Planes research is not really a wacky conspiracy theory that aims to misdirect 9/11 Truth and Justice seekers. It's the official guv-issued conspiracy theory that's wacky and intended to mislead. So are a number of the alt-media's more popular narratives, imo. Very much like the "MSM" and G.W. Bush, the alt-media too stricly wants consensus on info that fits their predetermined preferences with near Zero Tolerance for dissension -- not any real investigation other than what's "okayed" by them. ------- "They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
100% likely that planes hit the towers. A Global Hawk flew those planes into the towers. It is made by Boeing. Look it up online. BTW, it was NORAD that controlled the Global Hawk. 9-11 was a training exercise that went live. The pilots of those planes had no control over the them. The Global Hawk over-rides the controls and flies the planes where they want them to go. Very likely that it was a cruise missile that hit the Pentagon. No evidence that it was a plane. "When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall, one by one." Edmund Burke
Er, no. The Global Hawk is a drone, and it MIGHT be what hit the Pentagon. Then again it might have been something else, such as a cruise missile painted like an AA 757. Those planes that hit the towers were more than likely converted 767's, as per the Dov Zakheim sale to the Air Force. Remote control of any of those aircraft could be and more than likely would be achieved by direct satellite link. It was all controlled by NORAD. This is factual. 9-11 was a training exercise that went live.
"When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall, one by one." Edmund Burke
Those planes that hit the towers were more than likely converted 767's, as per the Dov Zakheim sale to the Air Force. Remote control of any of those aircraft could be and more than likely would be achieved by direct satellite link. I think they had laser guided missile technology aboard those planes to make sure it hit the targets. They didn't leave it to chance by using just remote controls. The remote controls probably got the planes within the area, then the programmed laser guided technology locked on to the building and took over from there adjusting the plane accordingly to hit the target. Remote controlling a plane into a building at those speeds would be extremely difficult. I also don't think these were American Airlines or United planes. To not leave anything to chance I suspect they were military planes that were outfitted just for the purpose of this false flag event. God is always good!
My thoughts as well. The following video describes the Dov Zakeim/Boeing 767 connection in detail. As far as how those craft were controlled, it could have been a combination of remote human controller and computer assisted flight, along with pre-programmed flight as you've said. Cynicom: A charade using time, smoke and mirrors to confuse, disarm and destroy any concerted effort looking for the truth. The entire 9/11 charade could itself be called a Directed Energy-Weapon with a "blooming effect" to defocus and disperse our energy (especially the Patriotic sort) into the atmosphere haphazardly but No Planes research is not really a wacky conspiracy theory that aims to misdirect 9/11 Truth and Justice seekers. It's the official guv-issued conspiracy theory that's wacky and intended to mislead. So are a number of the alt-media's more popular narratives, imo. Very much like the "MSM" and G.W. Bush, the alt-media too stricly wants consensus on info that fits their predetermined preferences with near Zero Tolerance for dissension -- not any real investigation other than what's "okayed" by them. Yeah, that. Do you have any bonafide evidence that all of the witnesses are lying and that all of the impact videos are faked? There is ample evidence indicating planes hit the towers. Eyewitnesses and video for starters. Entrance holes in the towers and exterior jet fuel explosions are next on the list. What I can tell by examining the Entrance Hole of the first hit is it is the profile of a plane. The next hit is confusing with some saying another plane some saying no plane, plane image inserted afterward, a missile fired from the second plane. Seems a governmental commission could get to the bottom of this but NO. There is ample evidence indicating planes hit the towers. Eyewitnesses and video for starters. Entrance holes in the towers and exterior jet fuel explosions are next on the list. Is it actually news to you that there is ample evidence online of alleged 9/11- witnesses lying, FL? That's a topic that's been discussed here before with evidence presented, I'm fairly sure, and I think it was also pointed out that none of them were under oath. Many were MSM, guv and Military employees (groups that are generally not viewed so unskeptically by the politically savvy as impeccable sources across-the-board in matters other than 9/11). Many were only ever "seen" or "heard from" in the form of printed words and could very possibly have been complete fabrications (so as to enhance the official storyline or for purposes of insurance fraud, for instance). Do you have any bonafide evidence that they are all actual persons who can be fully trusted and none are invented characters? Tania Head is one fake-witness person that even the MSM has aknowledged was fraudulent. Fake impact video, fake entrance holes in buildings that explode inward, exterior fuel explosions -- stuff of the film FX industry for many, many years that's like elementary to them. How about the WTC Towers and their bizarrely non-stick, teflon-pan-like surfaces?: No molten metal adhering to the building as it supposedly poured from windows. No significant damage to the side of the Tower that was closest to high- velocity projectiles and debris being propelled in its direction profusely from the adjacent one that went down first. Yet, we're told to believe that other buildings farther away in the WTC-complex vicinity were burned and destroyed from such. Why do Planes-believers typically hopscotch over simple observations of anomalies like that for more than decade, as if they can't see it or can just dismiss it out of hand by insistently asserting high-tech, glitch-free, remote control implementation or caveman-directed hijackers? ------- "They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
Is it news to you that there are limits to what is probable and what isn't? Do you think a significant part of the population of New York city would collectively lie about what they saw on 9/11? Were the fireballs faked too in your mind? How about the people jumping out of the towers, were they fake? And what about the videos? Did every single news crew on the scene collectively lie and fabricate the entire story? They all swooped down with their fake video cameras and were so determined to score a huge hit for Israel, they worked on their scripts for weeks before delivering it live that morning of 9/11/2001, eh? Maybe there never were any towers, they were just fake images in all of the post cards of the NYC skyline, put there just to fool the goyim, right? You know better than that. Give names and and contact information of the "eyewitnesses". Show me one video of an airplane strike that wasn't faked. Give me definitive proof that ANY of those WTC impact videos were faked. Just prove it once, and you're on your way to cracking the case wide open wud. As far as the witnesses, are you unfamiliar with ANY of the news reports of that day where people described what they saw? Did all of the news crews collude to fabricate news reports of an event that did not happen? What it comes down to is that what occured or didn't occur on 9/11 can be proven using scientific FACTS, proveable with known laws of physics and mathematics. Is is a scientific fact that those towers did not collapse as they did without a controlled demolition using explosive devices of some sort. It is scientific fact that a 757 couldn't fly at ground level over 500 mph into a ground target with the nose level, and highly unlikely an inept individual such as Hani Hanjour could have defied the laws of physics and performed the impossible. It is pure conjecture that "no planes" were involved in the WTC attacks, and is not based upon science or math, rather it is based on a premise that is highly unlikely, and is not necessary to prove that 9/11 was inside job. This guy's got your back.... He's a witness. He saw the airplane "come out of nowhere". Yeah. Just ask him. You win. And this proves what? Some guy on Youtube posts a video of an interview that may have been edited, and it may as well be written in the Bible as "The Word"? We don't even see the "interviewee's" mouth moving during the part where he supposedly explains how the towers collapsed before they did. I call bullshit on that one. In fact wud, after the "cut" to one of the impacts, during which time he's supposed to be talking about the collapse, there are words being spoken that are not coming out of his mouth once you DO see his face again. You can't be so eager to jump on every piece of BS out there. It is this sort of thing that turns the vast majority of people against any sort of real hard look into 9/11, as many would think EVERYTHING that "truthers" say is pure whacked out bullshit, judging from the video you posted as "proof" there weren't any planes involved with the attacks. If you wanted to expose what REALLY happened on 9/11/2011, you'd perhaps be looking into THIS sort of information.... PS: These are documented recordings of the NYPD, along with various news reports from that time frame. It's the Harley guy. He's freaking famous. Get with the program. I offer him as evidence for your case. He started the "planes coming out of nowhere" rumour. Thank you for your participation. So he doesn't like Hondas. That makes him an expert on anything? But ok, I just looked up "Harley guy 911" and found the original video, and he said he was watching it from his window, and this interview took place an hour and a half AFTER the two towers had already collapsed. Here it is. It is more effective to post the original rather than an edited version wud. Now perhaps the guy was just repeating what he heard on TV, where "experts" may have already come up with the bright idea that the towers collapsed because of the "intense heat". It still doesn't prove that there were no planes. The towers didn't collapse. They didn't crumble. They didn't come tumbling down. They disintegrated. They blowed up. To smithereens. And... not because of a plane. Who said anything about a plane anyway? Oh yeah, the tv. Your trusted info source. Carry on. The TV didn't say anything. I saw it happen on live TV though, as I had just turned it on a few minutes before the 2nd plane hit. There were MANY people who saw that 2nd plane hit, and at least a few had snapped video and photos of the 1st plane. There were ALL sorts of cameras on the WTC as that 2nd plane hit because of what had already happened with the 1st plane, where it was first thought it was some sort of horrible accident. You have ZERO proof that all of those people are lying, and zero proof that ALL of the news media, their reporters and camera crews, and the police and fire departments who were involved, fabricated these events, reports, and videos. What is more likely, what YOU claim, or the possibility that remote controlled military aircraft were used in the attacks, being that Dov Zakheim, besides having "misplaced" 2.3 TRILLION dollars of US tax payer money while the Comptroller of the Pentagon, had a deal to sell Boing 767 tankers to the Air Force and whose company creates military remote aircraft control technology? And yes, it is the same Dov Zakheim who co-authored the infamous "America needs a new Pearl Harbor" memo. Really wud, besides bizarre and unprovable assertions, do you have any proof? What about motive? Zakheim had a 2.3 trillion dollar motive to do what he did. What motive would all those people YOU blame have? The towers didn't collapse. They didn't crumble. They didn't come tumbling down. They disintegrated. They blowed up. To smithereens. And... not because of a plane. Who said anything about a plane anyway? Oh yeah, the tv. Your trusted info source. Carry on. Ya know, it really dosen't matter if it was a plane, UFO or drone or what ever - the buildings were packed with explosives and NYC and Israel have their fingerprints all over it. Also the Odigo (sp) advance warnings were real - and broadcast in Hebrew to any who could understand that tongue knew to stay away. Planes didn't bring the Towers down or the Pentagon's newly reinforced wing. I think most researchers can agree on that much. The main purpose of plane-props in the storyline is to insert the designated villain-characters into kamikaze-vehicles for a plausible "holy war" scenario-pretext in order to strike the designated targets of Afghanistan and Iraq after Black Tuesday in the 9/11 Wars for Profiteers. Kamikaze/Divine Wind/God Wind. I think most researchers can agree too that WTC 1, 2, and 7 were brought down by controlled demolitions. Whether they were demolished by conventional explosives, by unconventional methods, or a combination of both, they were still controlled demolitions. It does matter if there were no planes for a number of reasons. Making accurate charges against the actual perps is a big one, imo -- so that insurance frauds don't escape detection; so that possible black-marketeers trafficking in dual- use plane-parts which can be used in guided missle systems don't escape detection; etc. The No Planes investigation doesn't diminish or make obsolete the scientific work of others such as FormerLurker's on aerodynamics, Architects & Engineers, et al. It is important for people to know why the official conspiracy theory is bunk. Also: Zim American Israeli Shipping Company ------- "They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
Nobody here is saying they did. That doesn't mean they didn't use aircraft for effect however. And that doesn't mean every single reporter, camera man, bystander, and news agency fabricated "planes" that weren't there. The planes seem to be a cover for the demolitions. The whole thing is beyond bizarre. God is always good!
It is my opinion, from watching them, that ALL videos of a plane hitting the wtc are fake. You do the logic. Believe what you want. True, but as a matter of fact, there was no plane. Facts can be important. For the sake of argument if nothing else. Without the videos of those planes ( Truth is important. Anyone that says they saw a plane hit the wtc is lying.
killtown.911review.org/2nd-hit.html
Wud, I don't know why you are barking up this tree but it's not doing you any good. You again fail to prove ANYTHING, and simply proclaim yourself to be the judge of everything related to 9/11, and declare everyone else a liar. WTF is wrong with you? Not to you apparently. The whole thing is beyond bizarre. Yes, it is beyond bizarre. And the WTC demolitions are cover to "excuse" the lack of plane-strike evidence other than what was thought to be seen on approach in film, an alleged passport, a mismatched wheel... The delayed film (like the Naudet Brothers') of alleged Flt. 11 crashing into the first Tower served to augment Silverstein's insurance settlement. Two planes said to have "vanished" at the WTC means that two real planes may have been disappeared into the black market, in whole or in part. Why waste expensive planes to take us to War and devise a Police State when many people tend to believe what they're told without questioning further and tend to believe what they think they've seen for themselves -- even fight strenuously against contradictory evidence, which provides time for criminal escapes and for entrenching War and Police State measures. In the past, countries could be taken to War, draconian laws passed, on just printed new stories as "evidence" or whatever was said by elites. Not so easy to do with mass media now, so productions are staged to control the present and the future. Saw parts of a documentary on TLC called (iirc) "9/11 Emergency Room". A hospital that had practiced for disaster shortly before 9/11 set up triage under the WTC to treat the wounded. Seems to me a bizarre and most unsafe choice of location for that but that is what is being launched into the future as the moving history of that day. ------- "They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
If truth is important to you, why did you hopscotch over the observations of anomolies at Post #149? Thanks for making my point, though, about plane- believers typically doing that.
------- "They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
No molten metal adhering to the building as it supposedly poured from windows. No significant damage to the side of the Tower that was closest to high- velocity projectiles and debris being propelled in its direction profusely from the adjacent one that went down first. Yet, we're told to believe that other buildings farther away in the WTC-complex vicinity were burned and destroyed from such. Huh? A) There were fireballs from the impact, as captured on video. Smoke is seen pouring out of the buildings afterwards. B) Molten metal was found under the debris weeks after the event. Why didn't it "stick"? Stick to what, the air it was falling through as seen on the videos of it pouring out of the building in certain areas? C) Huh? There were entrance holes and exit holes. I have no idea what you're talking about concerning your statement, "No significant damage to the side of the Tower that was closest to high- velocity projectiles and debris being propelled in its direction profusely from the adjacent one that went down first. Yet, we're told to believe that other buildings farther away in the WTC-complex vicinity were burned and destroyed from such." What are you trying to say exactly, that there was no damage to the towers? Why do you and wud insist on this unlikely and highly improbable belief that all of NY city witnessing the events lied about the 9/11 attacks, along with every single news reporter, camera crew, and fireman and policeman at the scene? The "no-planes" concept is akin to "space aliens from Venus" zapped the towers because they are in cahoots with the Jews. They are both wild stories that detract from the actual evidence available, and turn the average person away from any further thought of "what if the government didn't tell the truth" about 9/11. Yet you act as if people who question your "observations" are actually trying to do what you are in fact doing, and that is leading people AWAY from the truth, not towards it. Well excuse me I didn't see your post till you brought it to my attention. See my response above. Now if you have any PROOF, and I mean video analysis proving CGI was used to create the planes impacting the WTC, and eye witnesses who said they simply saw an explosion but NO plane flew into the WTC, it just exploded and left holes without anything hitting it, then go ahead and post that proof. Thus far you have posted ZERO evidence, just your beliefs. Also, you need to give me some sort of motive why EVERY news reporter and camera crew knowingly fabricated evidence and claimed to have witnessed what they saw when they in fact saw nothing, and produced live reports and video that was actually taped and edited earlier at a studio. I'm sure more than a few people would have said nothing at all hit the towers if that were in fact the case. There are a LOT of people who live and work in NY City, and once the 1st plane hit, there were LOTS of eyes, AND cameras, focused on those towers. Your belief requires that ALL witnesses are lying, and that ALL news crews are ALSO lying. Perhaps you should reevaluate your world view, since not EVERYONE is a liar. A hospital that had practiced for disaster shortly before 9/11 set up triage under the WTC to treat the wounded. Seems to me a bizarre and most unsafe choice of location for that but that is what is being launched into the future as the moving history of that day. I doubt many people considered the possibility that the towers might collapse. They SHOULDN'T have collapsed due to the impacts, and they didn't collapse as if they were damaged only at the top floors. They collapsed as if there was nothing holding them up to begin with, and the only way to accomplish that is with explosives throughout the buildings. Forget your idea that planes hit the wtc. Calm down and watch the videos here. killtown.911review.org/2nd-hit.html They're all fake. Come to terms with it and be cool. Explain to me ONE actual piece of evidence that proves no planes hit the towers. I'll be waiting...
Yes truth is important, they were seen according to eye witnesses and they were filmed. I know why you believe that there were no planes. Because the TV footage of the close up of the planes from different angles was edited to obscure the identity of the plane. The video evidence does not mean there were no planes, it just means that the videos were edited.
God is always good!
True, but as a matter of fact, there was no plane. Facts can be important. For the sake of argument if nothing else. I certainly believe facts to be important. A lot of fishy things went on before 9-11 that really do implicate the Likud Israel political faction and their operatives in the Bush administration. Do you think a significant part of the population of New York city would collectively lie about what they saw on 9/11? Yep, simple logic says if there were no planes then there would have been many, not just a few, but many people proclaiming that they saw and heard no planes. Where are these people? No planers are not thinking about the illogical points in their positions. Nuts. Even if somehow the government and media managed to pretend there were planes and keep people quite about it, I see no benefit to it to accomplish their plans. It would be much easier to just crash the planes into the buildings. God is always good!
that is what is being launched into the future as the moving history of that day from Britain: 9-11 documentary focuses on 'surfer' - Worcester Telegram & Gazette - telegram.com By Mike Hale THE NEW YORK TIMES Monday, September 10, 2012 Why in Britain? Because these TV documentaries about the most significant event in our recent history were made there. You could see this outsourcing as a dereliction of duty by American filmmakers, or as a welcome sign that we’re moving on. (It’s definitely an indicator of the astonishingly high percentage of American nonfiction television that’s made in Britain, and other European countries.) In any case, our history is in competent hands. [sic] Two of the more worthwhile of programs are the work of Testimony Films: “The 9- 11 Surfer,” debuting Tuesday on Discovery and “9-11 Emergency Room,” airing tonight on TLC. “Emergency Room” counters the popular conception of medical care on Sept. 11 — doctors waiting at St. Vincent’s Hospital in Greenwich Village for patients who never arrived — with the story of New York Downtown Hospital, which was overrun with victims from inside and outside the towers. [sic] “The 9-11 Surfer” looks for the truth behind a particular Sept. 11 legend, the story that a man on the 86th floor of the north tower when it collapsed had survived by “surfing” down with the debris. The film replays the TV news accounts that propagated the tale, then circles back to its origins in the sufficiently amazing, not widely known story of a Port Authority employee named Pasquale Buzzelli. Found by two firefighters sitting atop a seven-story pile of burning rubble, Buzzelli recalled being on the 22nd floor when the building came down. Experts disagree on the probabilities, but the soft-spoken Buzzelli is persuasive, and the videos of his late-night homecoming on Sept. 11, and his reunions in later years with the firefighters who rescued him, are irresistible. ------- "They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
Exactly. It's one thing to suggest the videos MAY have been manipulated, but to state unequivocally that "no plane" hit the towers, with no real evidence of such a claim, is beyond reason. It ignores the fact that EVERY camera crew had to have known that what they were capturing on video was not what was being broadcast, and the reporters had to know they were fabricating a story out of thin air so to speak. There would have been a large number of people in the vicinity of the towers, looking up, who would have stated that they didn't see a plane but only an explosion in the 2nd tower. In reality, more than a few people witnessed the plane as it approached the tower, and a good number actually saw it impact. I am not aware of ANY actual witness who claims they saw the entrance hole appear for no reason, ie. nothing hit the tower. I HAVE read that survivors in the WTC actually saw the 2nd plane approach. Again, for the "no-plane" story to have any basis in fact, ALL of the news media on the scene would had to have been in on the scheme and executed their deception flawlessly, before, during, and after the event. It is MUCH easier to take control of an aircraft remotely and fly it into a tower, than to pull off such a large scale act of deception, where the world believes jet airliners hit the towers, yet in reality they were created in a studio and broadcast to the world in unison at the exact proper time, in league with every news crew and witness in the City of New York. No molten metal adhering to the building as it supposedly poured from windows. No significant damage to the side of the Tower that was closest to high- velocity projectiles and debris being propelled in its direction profusely from the adjacent one that went down first. Yet, we're told to believe that other buildings farther away in the WTC-complex vicinity were burned and destroyed from such. Huh? A) There were fireballs from the impact, as captured on video. Smoke is seen pouring out of the buildings afterwards. B) Molten metal was found under the debris weeks after the event. Why didn't it "stick"? Stick to what, the air it was falling through as seen on the videos of it pouring out of the building in certain areas? C) Huh? There were entrance holes and exit holes. I have no idea what you're talking about concerning your statement, "No significant damage to the side of the Tower that was closest to high- velocity projectiles and debris being propelled in its direction profusely from the adjacent one that went down first. Yet, we're told to believe that other buildings farther away in the WTC-complex vicinity were burned and destroyed from such." What are you trying to say exactly, that there was no damage to the towers? Your responses have nothing to do with the observations listed. Reread them and try again. ------- "They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
And I have read alleged eyewitness testimony of a plane approach at the Pentagon. You do realize, don't you, that all of your arguments against a planes hoax at the WTC can also be applied to the Pentagon and D.C.? Edited first sentence for clarity. ------- "They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
It's not really easier than CGI. Your main evidence of remote control seems to be that Zakheim is involved in it but he would have benefited from drone war contracts anyway without wasting expensive planes. The fact that the technology exists isn't evidence that it was used. You need to prove first that planes were used before asserting they were remote controlled. Alleged Flt. 93 suggests that it wasn't used in that scenario or was able to be over-ridden somehow. ------- "They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
Their "loss rate" is near fifty percent because of what they call "latency". September 11th Conspiracies - Planes The planes were remotely controlled and thus no hijackers were even needed. One obvious problem is that Flight 93 didn't fly into its target. So if it was somehow wired up for an auto-pilot takeover, the pilots managed to override it and drive it into the ground. How or why they did this doesn't really make much sense. [sic] The military has remote controlled planes like the Predator or Global Hawk, but how well do they work? In 2005, General Ronald Keys had this to say[2]: ------- "They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
You need to first prove planes were NOT involved, as that is what was reported, witnessed, and recorded on video. You would also need to prove a massive conspiracy involving the witnesses, news crews, and the networks where they prerecorded the WTC and superimposed the aircraft and the fireballs, along with the smoke, and have it match what was happening in real time on 9/11/2001. I don't think the technology exists even today to pull that off live, clean as a whistle with no signs of tampering. People report seeing an aircraft, ranging from a cruise missile with wings, to an actual 757. I'm sure some of them DID see what they think they saw. At least a couple of them WERE obviously either mistaken about what they saw or outright lying when they reported the plane hit the lawn and skidded into the Pentagon, since there was no damage to the lawn whatsoever. SOME type of aircraft hit the Pentagon. In contention is what TYPE of aircraft hit it, since not only is it unlikely that a flight school washout could fly a 757 to begin with, but it is physically impossible for a 757 to fly at a speed of over 500 mph while its engines were skimming the Pentagon lawn by a couple of feet while the nose was kept level in order to avoid crashing into the lawn, even though a nose down pitch would be the only way to prevent the aircraft from climbing. Perhaps you could rephrase your assertions, since I believe I've responded to them appropriately. FormerLurker: Er, no. The Global Hawk is a drone, and it MIGHT be what hit the Pentagon. Then again it might have been something else, such as a cruise missile painted like an AA 757. Those planes that hit the towers were more than likely converted 767's, as per the Dov Zakheim sale to the Air Force. Remote control of any of those aircraft could be and more than likely would be achieved by direct satellite link. Are you claiming that the Military couldn't or wouldn't disconnect a satelite link to over-ride a remote control hijacking from the ground? Fast forward to the second right arrow in the mp3 interview below. A satellite system is discussed there, as well as mere turbulence disconnecting autopilot. To disconnect external autopilot/remote control and keep it disconnected, simply shut off all electrical power and standby battery to the plane. Click here for audio: pilotsfor 911truth.org/p4t/RemoteControlWhistleblower.mp3 CB_Brooklyn at checktheevidence.co.uk/: [Additions after Oct 2007 by Andrew Johnson] 1. OGCT. This is known as the “Official Government Conspiracy Theory”. This version states that a guy from a cave in Afghanistan conspired with 19 boxcutter-wielding Muslims to hijack airplanes, outwit the USA’s entire multi- trillion dollar defense system, and cause the Twin Towers to collapse. This is the version pushed by the government and media as being the truth of 9/11. 2. APCT. I call this the “Alternate Propaganda Conspiracy Theory”. This version states that, more or less, there were hijackings on 9/11, but the planes might have been taken under remote control to ensure they crashed as planned. Airplanes most likely crashed at the Pentagon and Shanksville, but planes definitely did crash into the Twin Towers. The Twin Towers and WTC 7 collapsed from conventional explosives and thermite, and molten metal was found in the rubble. This is the version pushed by the government and media as being the “wacko conspiracy theory” that the “truth movement” believes. 3. REAL. This, simply, is the REAL version, backed by actual evidence, Laws of Physics, and common sense: There were no hijackings, no plane crashes, the corporate media broadcasted cartoons of an airplane impacting the South Tower, and the WTC complex (not just the Towers and WTC 7) was destroyed with Directed Energy Weapons (DEW). The government and media steer clear of these. Edited for link title correction. ------- "They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
Are you saying the military/NORAD/(name the appropriate alphabet soup agency) would disconnect its own link controlling the aircraft? Name me any law of physics that backs up your allegations. That, and provide ANY evidence of what you claim. You know, witnesses, actual video proving no plane hit, etc. So you're claiming that they don't have the technology to launch a cruise missile that can actually hit its target, eh? A live dogfight between fighter jets is one thing, hitting a stationary ground target is QUITE a bit easier. You would also need to prove a massive conspiracy involving the witnesses, news crews, and the networks where they prerecorded the WTC and superimposed the aircraft and the fireballs, along with the smoke, and have it match what was happening in real time on 9/11/2001. I don't think the technology exists even today to pull that off live, clean as a whistle with no signs of tampering. The burden of proof isn't really on No Planes researchers to prove a negative 4 times. Nevertheless, that nearly impossible mathematical feat has already been demonstrated many times, here and elsewhere, for those willing to review the technical analysis of Videographers as well as that of Architects and Engineers, etc. Perhaps you're under your mistaken impression because of G.W. Bush's ploy to invade Iraq by demanding evidence of non-existent WMDs there. The burden of proof about planes is on those making the assertions of planes -- the government and those like you who extrapolate from it. ------- "They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
Do you really think it's possible to fly those maneuvers by remote control? ------- "They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
So you're claiming a mass Military conspiracy as if none of them would move so but a civilian, mass-media conspiracy is "a bridge too far" for you? What's your explanation for the only thing hit by alleged Flt. 93 being the ground in Pennsylvania? Edited for spelling. ------- "They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
Using a cruise missile, it wouldn't have to be remote control. In fact, that's how cruise missiles fly using pre-programmed coordinates. It MAY have been flown by remote control at first in order to APPEAR to be an airliner during its initial approach, but of course it could always have been switched over to auto for its terminal flight. NBC/CNN/Fox didn't plan the 9/11 wargames. NORAD (along with certain key civilian and military planners) did. As far as Flight 93, if my hypothesis that a chemical agent such as nerve gas was used to incapacitate the crews of the other "hijacked" aircraft, perhaps the gas failed to release properly and didn't reach the cabin, thus requiring some "intervention" on the part of Cheney to order a shoot down so as to hide any evidence of what had actually gone on. For starters, for your "idea" to be feasible, ALL network news stations, foreign news crews, and any bystander who happened to be looking at the towers would ALL had to have decided beforehand that they were going to hoodwink the world and produce the biggest fraudulent story of all time. You can start by telling me how these "news guys" had control of the population of New York City in order for everyone and anyone who witnessed the events to fall in line with their bogus video. You can also tell me HOW honest news reporters and camera men could be made to go along with such a lie. Incredible claims require incredibile evidence. It is not an incredible claim to state planes hit the towers, because that is what people saw, and what news cameras recorded. It IS an incredible claim to state that nothing like that actually happened, that is was all faked. Care to explain how those external fireballs were created, or were those "fake" too? How about the entrance holes, were they ALSO faked? Was the smoke faked? Were there even any explosives used, or were those fake too? Maybe the towers simply fell on their own, right? And BTW, care to post anything from Architects and Engineers for Truth which states there were no aircraft involved in the 9/11 attacks? One more thing. Your little GIF file tells a lie, in that the outer shell of the WTC towers was made of ALUMINUM, NOT STEEL. From World Trade Center Construction So are you willing to admit that the person who created that GIF file is lying and misleading his audience, and that you shouldn't try to use that as "evidence" of what it is you're selling here? Name me any law of physics that backs up your allegations. That, and provide ANY evidence of what you claim. You know, witnesses, actual video proving no plane hit, etc. < crickets chirping > I'm still waiting.... You see GL, I might SUGGEST and HYPOTHESIZE that a nerve agent or some other sort of incapacitating gas was used to neutralize the crew and passengers, allowing for the actual airliners to be flown to secure locations either remotely or by an individual onboard who had a gas mask. Thing is, I don't stomp my feet and cry if people don't jump on the bandwagon and agree with me, and I don't claim to KNOW for a fact that is what actually DID happen. I simply state that it MAY have happened, and that it is quite possible that it could have been done that way. See the difference between that and what you're saying, where you have almost some sort of religious belief that it HAD to have happened the way you say, where there were no planes involved in the attacks and that it was all produced in a studio ahead of time, and that every single person who witnessed the events is in on the conspiracy. Using a cruise missile, it wouldn't have to be remote control. Are we in agreement then that the alleged plane manuevers at the Pentagon couldn't have been flown by remote control? Edited the question for clarity. ------- "They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
"The burden of proof isn't really on No Planes researchers to prove a negative 4 times. Nevertheless, that nearly impossible mathematical feat has already been demonstrated many times, here and elsewhere, for those willing to review the technical analysis of Videographers as well as that of Architects and Engineers, etc. Perhaps you're under your mistaken impression because of G.W. Bush's ploy to invade Iraq by demanding evidence of non-existent WMDs there. The burden of proof about planes is on those making the assertions of planes -- the government and those like you who extrapolate from it." ~ GreyLmist wud... I have a theory that it was flying telephone poles that did it. Am looking to recruit some "experts" with PHDs to agree and take up the cause. Look for a book later.
So? The Military conducts wargames often. Red Team, Blue Team and what have you -- with or without civilian participation. The Military doesn't take their orders from Vice Presidents and alleged Flt. 93 had already nosedived into the ground in that part of the scenario, before the supposed "shootdown order" by Cheney. If you think the Military wouldn't have known at the time that alleged Flt. 93 wasn't still flying, think again. They don't really need the FAA to tell them stuff like that. Timeline for the day of the September 11 attacks - Wikipedia ------- "They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
From World Trade Center Construction So are you willing to admit that the person who created that GIF file is lying and misleading his audience, and that you shouldn't try to use that as "evidence" of what it is you're selling here? Are you joking? The WTC buildings were made of steel by the tons. Are you insinuating that a thin, aluminum veneer means they weren't steel structures?; or that anodized aluminum would make it so an aluminum plane could possibly melt through the steely structure like the ABC "Butter Plane"? I hope not. ------- "They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
Thing is, I don't stomp my feet and cry if people don't jump on the bandwagon and agree with me, and I don't claim to KNOW for a fact that is what actually DID happen. I simply state that it MAY have happened, and that it is quite possible that it could have been done that way. See the difference between that and what you're saying, where you have almost some sort of religious belief that it HAD to have happened the way you say, where there were no planes involved in the attacks and that it was all produced in a studio ahead of time, and that every single person who witnessed the events is in on the conspiracy. As I'm sure you know, it is not quite possible for the alleged plane maneuvers at the Pentagon to have been flown by remote control. Your own ground effect analysis should confirm that for you. The first part of your second paragraph sounds somewhat similar to the Republican thugs' demeaning, hissy-fit projections onto Ron Paul supporters who objected at all to being belittled, berated, steamrolled, disenfranchised, and otherwise assaulted with abusive maltreatment. Some sort of religious belief? I don't know what you're talking about but you're putting way too much emphasis on alleged witnesses. You do realize, don't you, that they didn't all describe seeing or hearing planes? ------- "They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
< crickets chirping > I'm still waiting.... Every law of physics backs up my allegations, afaik. The remote control theory not so much. It's not my job to provide you with a Unification Theory of 9/11 and No Planes Research because you don't want to do the homework yourself and haven't even been interested enough in topics here to be up to speed on it, although I did post an actual video gif for you from ABC which you scourged for no good reason, imo. While I'm waiting for your replies, I'll post this: Holmgren and Reynolds on No Planes on 911 - Exposing the Illusion By Ronald Bleier December 2006 In the missile-not-planes scenario, Holmgren suggests that there are two things that could go wrong. The first problem is that witnesses would say (as they did in reality) that they didn’t see a plane involved in the first strike. Holmgren suggests that this problem was easily countered in part because there was only an 18-minute window between the first hit at 8:46 and the second at 9:03 when everyone saw "a big jet live on TV." Most witnesses who said they didn’t see a plane strike the North Tower were effectively intimidated or ignored. According to Holmgren, in the brief period between the two strikes, there was only one witness who said he saw a large jet strike the North Tower, "and that just happened to be the vice prez of CNN…" Thus the problem of "contrary witnesses [turned out to be] a minor inconvenience…easily overcome with good planning." The other problem that Holmgren imagines to the missile scenario is that someone "might look at the videos and see what’s actually there. ------- "They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
I have a theory that it was flying telephone poles that did it. Am looking to recruit some "experts" with PHDs to agree and take up the cause. Look for a book later. So, after attempting to chastise me your offering above is what supposedly constitutes polite and reasoned debate? In the thread that I referenced in my inline link you wrote: "One has to be realistic, the government could care less and if per chance this Pandoras box should be opened again, they will provide "experts" by the dozens to refute everything." To which I replied, "So, you are saying that govt can find physicists to refute known physical laws by which all real world endeavors are bound?" And you dared to lecture me on "keeping it impersonal" ostensibly to avoid offending your Pollyanna sensibilities when in light of the above post that was so obviously not your goal at all. Pray tell, how do you reconcile that with your post to wud which was intended to ridicule him for daring to make an affirmative assertion when you have no intelligent followup question but only a silly, punitive question intended to squelch the subject at issue? And, by what logic is my question to you (which could be answered with a "Yes" or "No" by an intellectually honest person) bad form in light of your insulting post to wud? Again you've been caught trying to squelch this debate and you didn't even ask a question, instead posting only childish (as in second childhood) nonsense.
Hound... Debate????? By whom and where? I love good, intellectual, honest, civil debate.
You can start by telling me how these "news guys" had control of the population of New York City in order for everyone and anyone who witnessed the events to fall in line with their bogus video. You can also tell me HOW honest news reporters and camera men could be made to go along with such a lie. Incredible claims require incredibile evidence. It is not an incredible claim to state planes hit the towers, because that is what people saw, and what news cameras recorded. It IS an incredible claim to state that nothing like that actually happened, that is was all faked. I think I already addressed all that at Post #212. The Official 9/11 Mythology, remote control, one or more cruise missles are all more incredible claims, imo, than CGI and filtered witnesses -- which is the "Occam's Razor" with the least risk factor of something going amiss but here's a link and excerpt for you to consider: Just manufactured video All that was needed were the news directors at the top networks to do what they were told, a few actors at the scene to play at being eye witnesses, and a dime- a-dozen video editor to re-work the "live" footage so that it shows "reality" the way the conspirators wanted it to be shown. Edited for punctuation and spelling. ------- "They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
Debate????? By whom and where? I love good, intellectual, honest, civil debate. More of you insults I see. You know, if I examined this place and found it so wanting as you seem to have done, I think I'd find another place that's worthy of my lofty gift. But, who are we kidding? It is YOU who is hanging on by your fingernails here. Of course there's always room for silly, one dimensional posts from a less fortunate soul. But no one will criticize them until you find your own thread derailing weapon turned on you.
How about the entrance holes, were they ALSO faked? Was the smoke faked? Were there even any explosives used, or were those fake too? Maybe the towers simply fell on their own, right? I mentioned at post #164 that the WTC was demolished by controlled demolition, whether that was by conventional explosives (ex: WTC 7), unconventional methods, or a combination of both. You mentioned (at Post #150) people jumping out of the Towers. Early on and through the years, I did extensive research on the Art Students in-residence at the Towers leading up to 9/11. There was an example that I've posted before -- maybe at this forum too -- of a fake-jumper hoax some time before 9/11. I think that was also staged in New York City but I'd have to check to be sure. In this 9/11 video at 7:16, there's an alleged jumper falling behind a building. Could be a stuntman falling onto a big cushion, for all we know, so yes, I think it's possible that could be faked Hollywood-style. Yes, I think the entrance holes and fireballs could have been rigged as well. Little to no smoke damage at the Towers is one of the issues that I listed as an anomaly and you hopscotched over, then misconstrued later. I read and listen to Architects & Engineers for their Physics and scientific analysis (except for their incorporation of Steven E. Jones' thermitic mantra, which has chain of evidence problems, imo) not their Pop-Culture opinionations about 9/11 aircraft. ------- "They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
I can kind of see how he may have thunk up his flying telephone poles theory and might not have been kidding about it 100% on account of this: Path Of Hurricane Erin September 2001 9/11 Coincidence(?) Edited for spelling. ------- "They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
Grey... Young man, I never had an original thot, ever, in my head. On the contrary if you look back quite a few years, during the Viet Nam war, "flying telephone poles" were in the news every day for years on end. The correct name for them was "SAMS", surface to air missiles, used by the communists to shoot down our aircraft. Our pilots named them flying telephone poles because that is what they looked like from the air. I believe even olde John McCain was shot down by one. So you see, I did not thunk up anything, nor try to lead anyone astray. Good heavens no.
I have a theory that it was flying telephone poles that did it. Am looking to recruit some "experts" with PHDs to agree and take up the cause. Look for a book later. Cyni, I suggest you find some evidence for that first. In the meantime, I'll wait for the movie. Good morning young man... Hold it, right there. Book always afore the movie, dont rush things. I told Grey this morning that he was prolly tooooo young to recall flying telephone poles, maybe same with you????
Hold it, right there. Book always afore the movie, dont rush things. I told Grey this morning that he was prolly tooooo young to recall flying telephone poles, maybe same with you???? :) Good morning Of course flying telephones is before my time, but I know what you mean now. There's a conspiracy? How many people would need to be involved to fake a video? Who are these "eyewitnesses" of which you speak? If a detective is to make a case, does he not need some fucking evidence? Where is it? Have you seen it? Can you post it here? Here's your stupid evidence: Yeah. That's it. I wouldn't use the word "couldn't". I'd say it's unlikely, but I wouldn't rule it out. It's more likely though that it was flown just as other cruise missiles are flown. So if I say there isn't any such thing as an atom, because I've never seen one, I don't have to prove it, right? BTW, you're using a fraudulent premise in the animated GIF you posted, as I already explained to GreyLmist. The outer shell of the WTC was made of aluminium, not steel. So your "evidence" relies on false information. Why do you need to lie wud? Have any information that ISN'T false concerning your theory? You are claiming the news media (and bystanders) staged the 9/11 attacks. Did they also setup those wargames in order to provide cover for the attacks, in your opinion? 10:10 to 10:15 (approximately): Vice President Cheney, unaware that Flight 93 has crashed, authorizes fighter aircraft to engage the inbound plane, reported to be 80 miles (129 km) from Washington, based not on radar (from which it has disappeared) but speed and trajectory projections. Now you're relying on Wikipedia for your timeline? So you're claiming that Flight 93 WASN'T shot down, and that they did the "Let's Roll" thing and fought those damn Arabs flying the plane, causing it to crash? The CORE was steel, the FLOORS were concrete supported by steel, but the exterior skin was made of ALUMINUM and glass. Got a problem with that? Sure there were steel columns, but between those column was ALUMINUM. What it comes down to is that the outer walls were NOT solid steel. As far as an object travelling at high velocity, have you ever shot a gun? Lead is softer than steel, yet a high power rifle bullet such as a .308 will slice through steel as if it were butter. So no, it's not physically impossible for a high speed massive object to slice through glass, aluminum, and SOME steel columns. Many of them did. As far as who is starting to sound like who, it sounds like you are trying to detract from SCIENTIFIC and FACTUAL evidence, and toss in enough confusion and unsubstantiated claims to drive people away from who was actually behind the attacks. Now you're just tossing out any ole shit to see what sticks. You claim "every law of physics" backs up your allegations. Do you even KNOW any laws of physics? Give me ONE example using the laws of physics to back up your allegations. Evidence of what? Nothing proving what you claim exists in the footage you posted. So what's your point? You should not call wud a liar. You should just look at the cold hard evidence bit by bit, point by point , critical individual component by individual critical component. The remains of the alleged four planes were never recovered for reassembly... when TWA 800 went down over water damn near every piece was fished out. Why is that the remains of four planes do not add up to the mass of one whole plane? Then to get really technical their is the whole luggage, people, black box aspect.... AND Did you know you can not lose US planes in US air space? That is correct it was impossible in 2001 and it is still impossible today... Like a physical impossibility thanks to the structure of the air traffic control system. SO when the Official version states that the planes were lost for awhile.... total bull. .....And anyone that knows anything about air traffic should know this... so why include this lie on the conspirators part? ..... The impact at shanksville? Where is that plane? The earth did not absorb it... the US military did not shoot it down... Their was no plane in shanksville. Just an old abandoned strip mine with an ordinance crater. No wings, no bodies, no plane. The pentagon.... What happened at the pentagon was impossible for commercial air craft....and even military craft would have a hard time doing it.... And again , lack of plane parts, luggage, people.... Did I mention the hole at the pentagon is not big enough to fit a plane? Then their is New york....the one place we all saw planes.... on our TV sets. And we saw it over and over and over..... so it must be true. After all we saw it on TV and the government said it happened this way and I am not aware of the government ever using TV to lie to the public.... (Pardon me a moment while I put out this pants fire) Yet their is a very big tell missing from imaginary planes.... It is their wake. Like boats , planes make a neat little wake vortex. It follows them... If they fly through smoke they swirl the smoke... if a plane crashes its wake will spiral the fireball while it is aflame. Also if you pay close attention to the planes trajectory from news footage to news footage you will note that different news feeds had different plane trajectories.... This means unequivocally that TV fakery was used... Some stations had fake plane footage and we know this for certain because of the variety of flawed impact footage... If their is more than one path per plane then you can be certain the footage is fake. If not in whole then at the very least in part. Also if you watch all the little helicopters that buzzed the towers that day before they fell..... You might take notice that their rotors very rarely disturbed the smoke.... even when some dare devil pilots flew through it.... Go ahead... re-watch those vids.... Find the wake vortex... find the helicopter blades that don't disturb the smoke.... find the painful ugly truth.... it is sicker than most are willing to admit... ____________________________________________________________ . . . The US government has declared civil war on itself. Its lust for war grew so great... Liberty before death. We run , we live, We fight again, till we win. We did not start this fight. We damn sure did not willingly pay our taxes to buy the bullets and drones that shall be used to kill us. We will correct the violations of this rogue nation....our rogue nation. We will fix this because nobody else can. You will work to help me help us all to fix this failure. After you're done educating yourself, Action!!!
Also this is incorrect. If it were correct, bullet proof vests would be useless and DU rounds would of never been engineered. Maybe if it is a wafer thin sheet of steel, maybe then it might rip through like butter.... ____________________________________________________________ . . . The US government has declared civil war on itself. Its lust for war grew so great... Liberty before death. We run , we live, We fight again, till we win. We did not start this fight. We damn sure did not willingly pay our taxes to buy the bullets and drones that shall be used to kill us. We will correct the violations of this rogue nation....our rogue nation. We will fix this because nobody else can. You will work to help me help us all to fix this failure. After you're done educating yourself, Action!!!
I've never said that it isn't possible, because it IS possible. Ground effect at high speed comes into play for large heavy aircraft such as airliners, but not so much if at all for smaller aircraft such as fighter jets and cruise missiles. It is a matter of Wing loading, where low wing loading provides for higher lift at lower speeds (such as a commerical airliner), and high wing loading provides for less lift requiring higher speeds for takeoff and landing (such as a fighter jet). If it were correct, bullet proof vests would be useless and DU rounds would of never been engineered. Standard ballistic vests will NOT stop a .308, and NO vest will stop a .50 BMG. So you are wrong. I think you have some coping issues with being incorrect.... We were discussing velocity and soft objects going through hard objects... Not bullets and vests.... You seem to think the a bullet can go through anything... It can not... also the planes were flying at around 500 MPH........ significantly slower than your average bullet. MOre proof of TV fakery is the melting plane footage where the plane just melts into the building. Totally ignoring the laws of action/reaction..... The plane did not even ripple nor did it dislodge a chip of paint ... until it sank all the way in down to its tail... the building even fixed it's own plane hole for a moment.... but then boom....... You might know the footage... its a four frame shoot featured in von klists "in plane sight" ____________________________________________________________ . . . The US government has declared civil war on itself. Its lust for war grew so great... Liberty before death. We run , we live, We fight again, till we win. We did not start this fight. We damn sure did not willingly pay our taxes to buy the bullets and drones that shall be used to kill us. We will correct the violations of this rogue nation....our rogue nation. We will fix this because nobody else can. You will work to help me help us all to fix this failure. After you're done educating yourself, Action!!!
Oh and BTW, DU rounds were invented in order to penetrate through heavily armored vehicles such as tanks. Ground effect at high speed comes into play for large heavy aircraft such as airliners, but not so much if at all for smaller aircraft such as fighter jets and cruise missiles. It is a matter of Wing loading, where low wing loading provides for higher lift at lower speeds (such as a commerical airliner), and high wing loading provides for less lift requiring higher speeds for takeoff and landing (such as a fighter jet). Whatever it was, it did not burn the grass.... Nor did it burn gigantic construction wire spools... heck they did not even get knocked over...I even saw some un burned trees ( unburned closer to the zero moment... later in the day they got it.) ____________________________________________________________ . . . The US government has declared civil war on itself. Its lust for war grew so great... Liberty before death. We run , we live, We fight again, till we win. We did not start this fight. We damn sure did not willingly pay our taxes to buy the bullets and drones that shall be used to kill us. We will correct the violations of this rogue nation....our rogue nation. We will fix this because nobody else can. You will work to help me help us all to fix this failure. After you're done educating yourself, Action!!!
As good as of a digression as that is I would still point out that all the planes in the news footage lack any discernible wake.... Which is not possible. Leaving the only other option no mater how unlikely... If their is no wake then their is no plane.... and that is to say nothing of the dare devil helicopter pilots that can fly through the fire smoke with out blowing the smoke everywhere..... Amazing that last part.... ____________________________________________________________ . . . The US government has declared civil war on itself. Its lust for war grew so great... Liberty before death. We run , we live, We fight again, till we win. We did not start this fight. We damn sure did not willingly pay our taxes to buy the bullets and drones that shall be used to kill us. We will correct the violations of this rogue nation....our rogue nation. We will fix this because nobody else can. You will work to help me help us all to fix this failure. After you're done educating yourself, Action!!!
So all these people are lying, eh? What do you mean "wake"? Boats leave wakes, not planes. You know this how? Did you fish for the molecular fragments remaining in the debris yourself? A) On the morning of 9/11 there were false blips inserted on radar screens as part of the "wargames" in play. Those false blips caused confusion as to which planes were real and which ones weren't. B) Yes it IS possible to "lose" radar contact if the transponder is turned off. There are blind spots in the radar grid, where if the plane is not chirping its transponder, and it is flying through a radar blind spot, it will not appear on FAA screens. Debris was recovered over a large area, indicating it was shot down or blew up in flight. Most likely a cruise missile. People there witnessed it, and a whole lot of cameras recorded it. HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMm So this is your plan? I thought I might playfully point out a few things you might not of thought of.... I thought perhaps you'd understand the wake vortex thingee... I thought I would give you a thought... maybe I should of thought better of it. When it comes to forensic evidence one does not typically rely upon eye witness heresay. It is sad. You are closed minded. I mean the evidence is right there to be observed or not observed once you know what to look for and why... And yet you do not feel inclined to do so because ???? because???? Because what? Is it because you saw planes on TV ergo they must of been real? I thought they were real too once. Then I learned a bit more. Don't close yourself off to learning new things. Especially true things... I mean do you even dare touch the fact that many different broadcasts shown many different trajectories of the second plane impact? Not every trajectory can be the real one (if their was a real one) so one must agree that at least some of that footage was fake.... preplanned images meant to coerce an emotional response. Keep your eyes on the smoke when watching a vid.... watch for that wake. Stick to the physical facts and ____________________________________________________________ . . . The US government has declared civil war on itself. Its lust for war grew so great... Liberty before death. We run , we live, We fight again, till we win. We did not start this fight. We damn sure did not willingly pay our taxes to buy the bullets and drones that shall be used to kill us. We will correct the violations of this rogue nation....our rogue nation. We will fix this because nobody else can. You will work to help me help us all to fix this failure. After you're done educating yourself, Action!!!
So you're trying to say there was no smoke? In your mind, were there any WTC towers to begin with, or was that all an ongoing hoax too? Give me an example of what you claim. Do you have any evidence? Show me a vid where the plane flies through smoke. I haven't seen anything reflecting what you claim. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wake_turbulence or http://www.nasa.gov/centers/dryd...acts/TF-2004-14-DFRC.html or www.skybrary.aero/index.php/Wake_Vortex_Turbulence Did you tell someone else here to learn physics buster? ALSO when you say B) Yes it IS possible to "lose" radar contact if the transponder is turned off. There are blind spots in the radar grid, where if the plane is not chirping its transponder, and it is flying through a radar blind spot, it will not appear on FAA screens. You have not really done enough 911 research... US commercial craft are radar reflective, their are no blind spots on the east coast (never mind the rest of the US) and when A plane turns off it's transponder, the computer reading that transpondence tells every Air traffic controller monitoring the pertaining air space of the blip... so instead of the one jockey watching his plane EVERY jockey now gets to watch the plane. The system was set up to be full proof for a reason. You should get more intimate with it before shooting off at the hip. Alas..... You seem to have a closed made up mind and choose to exist here for the soul sake of argument against that which challenges your made up mind. I mean if it did not challenge you it would not bother you... wouldn't be worth a response.... so it is a challenge I suppose.... You .... been incorrect, a few times... which means your willing to go at this conversation from an emotional place of passion rather than logic. And you don't seem to be willing to pay attention to the details of anybodys postings in this thread beyond refuting them or ignoring them ...... the attempt at understanding is not being made on your part. Sad that. ____________________________________________________________ . . . The US government has declared civil war on itself. Its lust for war grew so great... Liberty before death. We run , we live, We fight again, till we win. We did not start this fight. We damn sure did not willingly pay our taxes to buy the bullets and drones that shall be used to kill us. We will correct the violations of this rogue nation....our rogue nation. We will fix this because nobody else can. You will work to help me help us all to fix this failure. After you're done educating yourself, Action!!!
Show me a vid where the plane flies through smoke smartass. I gave you three different links already....the nasa link in particular should be good and instructive... Not my fault if you wont click a link..... HERE A plane flying through smoke ____________________________________________________________ . . . The US government has declared civil war on itself. Its lust for war grew so great... Liberty before death. We run , we live, We fight again, till we win. We did not start this fight. We damn sure did not willingly pay our taxes to buy the bullets and drones that shall be used to kill us. We will correct the violations of this rogue nation....our rogue nation. We will fix this because nobody else can. You will work to help me help us all to fix this failure. After you're done educating yourself, Action!!!
So you're trying to say that the hijacked aircraft were NOT lost on radar at anytime during their flights, and that FAA controllers knew exactly where they were at all times, eh?
Hey bud, I mean Flight 175 (or whatever aircraft it actually was) which hit the South Tower, not some NASA plane in a demonstration of vortices. YOU are claiming that particular aircraft didn't leave a vortex. Well no shit, it WOULDN'T have if it didn't fly through smoke. Did you know how silly that reads before you posted it? I mean you just tried to put SO MANY words into my mouth that I did not write. Total conversation manipulation to twist a weaker mind into confusion and abandonment.... but I ain't the type to walk away. No, I am not saying any of the sillyness you posted. I will say this though... if the planes were real and if each one really turned off its transponders then each one would of been lit up on everyones screen.... IT'S CALLED A FAIL SAFE and if you had looked more into the procedures of Air Traffic Control then you would know this already. Come on man you! You talk like you think you have done some 911 research but you can't even talk to me about typical air traffic control procedure? You just wanna spout about hijacker this everyone is in on it that... real sarcastic moon bat shit, Is that all you really wanna do today? ____________________________________________________________ . . . The US government has declared civil war on itself. Its lust for war grew so great... Liberty before death. We run , we live, We fight again, till we win. We did not start this fight. We damn sure did not willingly pay our taxes to buy the bullets and drones that shall be used to kill us. We will correct the violations of this rogue nation....our rogue nation. We will fix this because nobody else can. You will work to help me help us all to fix this failure. After you're done educating yourself, Action!!!
PHYSICS!!!!! THE WAKE FOLLOWS THE PLANE!!!! OMG Fire does not stop the wake vortex of a plane... AGAIN IF A PLANE CRASHES ITS WAKE VORTEX WILL FOLLOW IT INTO THE FIRE AND SWIRL IT UNTIL THEIR IS NO MORE FIRE OR THE WAKE DISSIPATES.. I hope the caps helped you catch what you seem to have missed previously. ____________________________________________________________ . . . The US government has declared civil war on itself. Its lust for war grew so great... Liberty before death. We run , we live, We fight again, till we win. We did not start this fight. We damn sure did not willingly pay our taxes to buy the bullets and drones that shall be used to kill us. We will correct the violations of this rogue nation....our rogue nation. We will fix this because nobody else can. You will work to help me help us all to fix this failure. After you're done educating yourself, Action!!!
So let's see. You believe that all the news reporters, camera crews, bystanders, firemen, police, television networks (US and foreign), conspired to fabricate a tale of planes striking the towers. They produced footage fabricated in a studio, and they all played along with the lie in real time as events unfolded. According to you, FAA controllers had positive identification and knew the whereabouts of the planes at all times, so they must have seen where the aircraft actually were, before and after the alleged impacts. So THEY must have been in on it too. And they did this all without anyone leaking any part of the plot, and they all pulled it off flawlessly. And oh yeah, it was all directed by bin Laden and his merry crew of 19 (some of whom are still alive to this day), because they hate our "freedom", right? There was no smoke to leave a vortex, and the planes mostly disintegrated INSIDE the building. Fireballs created by the fuel splashing against the structure would not have followed any vortex into the building since the building itself dissipated the turbulence and reflected it back into the air. Come on man you! You talk like you think you have done some 911 research but you can't even talk to me about typical air traffic control procedure? You just wanna spout about hijacker this everyone is in on it that... real sarcastic moon bat shit, So you continue to insist that FAA radar is flawless and that there is ZERO possibility of losing an aircraft at all, even for the slightest moment, correct? According to you, FAA controllers had positive identification and knew the whereabouts of the planes at all times, so they must have seen where the aircraft actually were, before and after the alleged impacts. So THEY must have been in on it too. And they did this all without anyone leaking any part of the plot, and they all pulled it off flawlessly. And oh yeah, it was all directed by bin Laden and his merry crew of 19 (some of whom are still alive to this day), because they hate our "freedom", right? OK I can no longer say you are incorrect.... Now you are just lying to be a jerk. Seriously. Putting words into other peoples mouths.. why... to laugh? to be sarcastic? to shoot them down? That is a form of lie. You are lying when you put words into other peoples mouths. Making up shit for lols... sheesh...... you know what fuck you. If you wanna believe in fairy tails and magical super planes thats fine but you could do every one else the favour of avoiding paraphrasing because you don't know who to do it honestly. ____________________________________________________________ . . . The US government has declared civil war on itself. Its lust for war grew so great... Liberty before death. We run , we live, We fight again, till we win. We did not start this fight. We damn sure did not willingly pay our taxes to buy the bullets and drones that shall be used to kill us. We will correct the violations of this rogue nation....our rogue nation. We will fix this because nobody else can. You will work to help me help us all to fix this failure. After you're done educating yourself, Action!!!
Their is no hole in the east coast corridor (and none in the lower 48 that I am aware of) but if you wanna look stupid by saying anything to the contrary , please be my guest, I won't stop you from putting your foot in your mouth. and one more FU for good measure. See I can be emotional too,. ____________________________________________________________ . . . The US government has declared civil war on itself. Its lust for war grew so great... Liberty before death. We run , we live, We fight again, till we win. We did not start this fight. We damn sure did not willingly pay our taxes to buy the bullets and drones that shall be used to kill us. We will correct the violations of this rogue nation....our rogue nation. We will fix this because nobody else can. You will work to help me help us all to fix this failure. After you're done educating yourself, Action!!!
I didn't say a bullet can go through ANYTHING, I said a high powered rifle bullet CAN penetrate through steel. It depends on the thickness of the steel and its hardness. As far as a 767, which weighs roughly 182,000 lbs empty, 395,000 lbs fully loaded, travelling at 500 mph, that's a LOT of kinetic energy. It's enough energy to pierce through a hybrid of aluminum, glass, concrete, and steel columns. From Secondary surveillance radar [Note: pay close attention to the section on Syncronous Garble] A number of problems are described in an ICAO publication of 1983 entitled Secondary Surveillance Radar Mode S Advisory Circular. [8] Although 4,096 different identity codes available in a mode A reply may seem enough, but once particular codes have been reserved for emergency and other purposes, the number is significantly reduced. Ideally an aircraft would keep the same code from take-off until landing even when crossing international boundaries, as it is used at the air traffic control centre to display the aircraft's callsign using a process known as code/callsign conversion. Clearly the same mode A code should not be given to two aircraft at the same time as the controller on the ground could be given the wrong callsign with which to communicate with the aircraft.[6] The mode C reply provides height increments of 100 feet, which was initially adequate for monitoring aircraft separated by at least 1000 feet. However, as airspace became increasingly congested, it became important to monitor whether aircraft were not moving out of their assigned flight level. A slight change of a few feet could cross a threshold and be indicated as the next increment up and a change of 100 feet. Smaller increments were desirable.[citation needed] Since all aircraft reply on the same frequency of 1090 MHz, a ground station will also receive aircraft replies originating from responses to other ground stations. These unwanted replies are known as FRUIT (False Replies Unsynchronized with Interrogator Transmissions or alternatively False Replies Unsynchronized In Time). Several successive fruit replies could combine and appear to indicate an aircraft which does not exists. As air transport expands and more aircraft occupy the airspace, the amount of fruit generated will also increase.[8] Fruit replies can overlap with wanted replies at a ground receiver, thus causing errors in extracting the included data. A solution is to increase the interrogation rate so as to receive more replies, in the hope that some would be clear of interference. The process is self defeating as increasing the reply rate only increases the interference to other users and vice versa.[8] If two aircraft paths cross within about two miles slant range from the ground interrogator, their replies will overlap and the interference caused will make their detection difficult. Typically the controller will lose the longer range, and later to reply, aircraft just when the former may be most interested in monitoring them closely.[8] While an aircraft is replying to one ground interrogation it is unable to respond to another interrogation, reducing detection efficiency. For a Mode A or C interrogation the transponder reply may take up to 120 µs before it can reply to a further interrogation.[8] The ground antenna has a typical horizontal 3 dB beamwidth of 2.5° which limits the accuracy in determining the bearing of the aircraft. Accuracy can be improved by making many interrogations as the antenna beam scans an aircraft and a better estimate can be obtained by noting where the replies started and where stopped and taking the centre of the replies as the direction of the aircraft. This is known as a sliding window process.[1] The early system used an antenna known as a hogtrough. This has a large horizontal dimension to produce a narrow horizontal beam and a small vertical dimension to provide cover from close to the horizon to nearly overhead. There were two problems with this antenna. First, nearly half the energy is directed at the ground where it is reflected back up, and interferes with, the upward energy causing deep nulls at certain elevation angles and loss of contact with aircraft. Second, if the surrounding ground is sloping, then the reflected energy is partly offset horizontally, distorting the beam shape and the indicated bearing of the aircraft. This was particularly important in a monopulse system with its much improved bearing measurement accuracy.[9] Making up shit for lols... sheesh...... you know what fuck you. So what is it, the news networks and eyewitnesses fabricated everything, or they didn't? Were there planes, or not? And go fuck yourself too. From Limit ations of FAA radar... Section 5. Surveillance Systems 4-5-1. Radar a. Capabilities 1. Radar is a method whereby radio waves are transmitted into the air and are then received when they have been reflected by an object in the path of the beam. Range is determined by measuring the time it takes (at the speed of light) for the radio wave to go out to the object and then return to the receiving antenna. The direction of a detected object from a radar site is determined by the position of the rotating antenna when the reflected portion of the radio wave is received. 2. More reliable maintenance and improved equipment have reduced radar system failures to a negligible factor. Most facilities actually have some components duplicated, one operating and another which immediately takes over when a malfunction occurs to the primary component. b. Limitations 1. It is very important for the aviation community to recognize the fact that there are limitations to radar service and that ATC controllers may not always be able to issue traffic advisories concerning aircraft which are not under ATC control and cannot be seen on radar. (See FIG 4-5-1.) FIG 4-5-1 Limitations to Radar Service FAA Radar, Transponders & the Plane Swaps MY white ass! It is a flying soda straw. Kinetic energy is all it has and that does not count for much at low speeds. A plane is not a gaus or coil gun. A bullet is a small solid lump. A plane is a big hollow lump. A bullet can pierce through a plane. A plane does not pierce through a building... it crashes into it. Planes are fragile things..... I hear that a duck made a plane crash into the hudson river once. That plane must not of been doing 500 MPH yet eh? How is it people like you can read much and yet still fail to understand....??? Sigh.... This is why they call it propaganda... YOu watched it from zero moment... wittnessed the plane flying in time after time and their fore their can be no other truth for you... you saw it on TV other people saw it on TV everyone saw the south tower crash over and over and over from the moment of OH MY GOD NO to three months later late night on the couch examining for details.... PROPAGANDA You can not ... will not...should not look at the forensic evidence... the finer details, The chincs in the story.... Their are aspects missing of a REAL PLANE REALLY CRASHING at any of the sites... lots of staged shit though.... real evidence of conventional ordinance, real evidence of DEW utilization, real evidence of lots of dead people.... It is the propaganda that is helping to motivate your snark when you ask if I think the Towers are fake too or if I believe in the state of New York... You can not further investigate the more troubling aspects of the event. ____________________________________________________________ . . . The US government has declared civil war on itself. Its lust for war grew so great... Liberty before death. We run , we live, We fight again, till we win. We did not start this fight. We damn sure did not willingly pay our taxes to buy the bullets and drones that shall be used to kill us. We will correct the violations of this rogue nation....our rogue nation. We will fix this because nobody else can. You will work to help me help us all to fix this failure. After you're done educating yourself, Action!!!
Ah man..... now you are just spamming bullshit about radars.... I doubt you read a single word of any of it... Just copypasta because you wanna be a rude dumb ass.......Too busy knowing it all to contemplate anything outside the TV Box parameters.. Hope it's cozy in those confines. ____________________________________________________________ . . . The US government has declared civil war on itself. Its lust for war grew so great... Liberty before death. We run , we live, We fight again, till we win. We did not start this fight. We damn sure did not willingly pay our taxes to buy the bullets and drones that shall be used to kill us. We will correct the violations of this rogue nation....our rogue nation. We will fix this because nobody else can. You will work to help me help us all to fix this failure. After you're done educating yourself, Action!!!
From Pentagon Crash Highlights a Radar Gap Although this radar is called a "secondary" system, it is the type used almost exclusively today in air traffic control. It takes an aircraft's identification, destination, speed and altitude from the plane's transponder and displays it on a controller's radar screen. "Primary" radar is an older system. It bounces a beam off an aircraft and tells a controller only that a plane is aloft -- but does not display its type or altitude. The two systems are usually mounted on the same tower. Primary radar is normally used only as a backup, and is usually turned off by controllers handling aircraft at altitudes above 18,000 feet because it clutters their screens. All aircraft flying above 18,000 feet are required to have working transponders. If a plane simply disappears from radar screens, most controllers can quickly switch on the primary system, which should display a small plus sign at the plane's location, even if the aircraft's transponder is not working. But the radar installation near Parkersburg, W. Va., was built with only secondary radar -- called "beacon-only" radar. That left the controller monitoring Flight 77 at the Indianapolis center blind when the hijackers apparently switched off the aircraft's transponder, sources said. The airspace controlled by each of the FAA's 20 "en route" centers is further divided into a number of sectors, with separate controllers handling each sector. Flight 77 was flying through a sector in the eastern portion of Indianapolis's airspace when it was hijacked. Sources said the location of the hijacking is likely just a coincidence, although there is a remote possibility that the hijackers knew where to turn off the transponder. There are a number of locations across the interior of the United States that operate solely with secondary radars. Until Sept. 11, it was the written policy of the FAA to begin turning off some older primary radars as they broke down or came due for expensive maintenance. The more modern secondary radar was considered sufficient for high-altitude navigation as the FAA began switching to satellite-based navigation systems over the coming decades. FAA officials said no primary radars had been turned off yet, and the events of Sept. 11 have reversed the policy. If you bothered reading any of it you'd know how full of shit you are. What it comes down to tit, is that there most certainly WERE radar gaps in primary radar coverage in the Northeast US on 9/11/2001. This video shows where those gaps were... I'm still not sure what exactly your beliefs are. Are you saying no planes actually took off from the reported airports, and that there weren't really any flights that were "hijacked" that morning?
Christ on a crutch STOP FUCKING SPAMMING you fucking jerk What the fuck is wrong with you? I give a few links that you wont click for shit insisting that I post more links... .. THEN YOU to be the biggest dick head in the universe gotta spam stink after stink about the radar and you know what? Their is still no holes in the east coast corridor, no gaps, no un-monitered airspace, IT IS THE BUSIEST AIR SPACE ON EARTH! Also your copypasta is such bull... I LOVE how you cite the pentagon... as if they have credibility and no bias in the event of which that organisation was a part of and factor in... Sheesh....Thats like a jew telling you that you can earn more money in his bank instead of your union. Whatever man.... ____________________________________________________________ . . . The US government has declared civil war on itself. Its lust for war grew so great... Liberty before death. We run , we live, We fight again, till we win. We did not start this fight. We damn sure did not willingly pay our taxes to buy the bullets and drones that shall be used to kill us. We will correct the violations of this rogue nation....our rogue nation. We will fix this because nobody else can. You will work to help me help us all to fix this failure. After you're done educating yourself, Action!!!
And here's a collection of impact videos of the South Tower. So all of this is fake in your eyes, right? Ah, did I hit a nerve you stupid little shit? What's the matter, your Mossad friends are going to be displeased with you and you won't get your bonus this month? What you demonstrate is that you have no concept of how air traffic control radar works, you don't know the difference between primary and secondary radar, and you deny there are limitations due to various technological deficiencies. You also deny the well known fact that there were gaps in primary radar coverage in the areas where the hijacked aircraft turned off their transponders, and are more than likely totally ignorant of the fact SECONDARY radar will NOT "see" a plane if its transponder is turned off. Posting evidence and facts to you is called "spamming". Other shills such as BeAChooser used to make the same sort of claim. You spew obscenities when facts and evidence are posted which prove you are wrong. I can see WHY you are a "no-planer". Facts, logic, and science mean nothing to you. Emotions and "beliefs" are all you require. What strikes a nerve is a poster I thought to be educated swallowing and regurgitating propaganda... And you know I am not stupid and you know that you are telling some fibs here... The question to ask yourself is why? What is it about this particular subject that motivates you to color your lines of honesty to less than honest? Answer yourself that and you might free yourself of your current manipulations. and you were spamming... Thank you for stopping... A link is all I needed.... a summary if you insist but copying page after page to post ad nausuem is obscene. Much more so than the word fuck. ____________________________________________________________ . . . The US government has declared civil war on itself. Its lust for war grew so great... Liberty before death. We run , we live, We fight again, till we win. We did not start this fight. We damn sure did not willingly pay our taxes to buy the bullets and drones that shall be used to kill us. We will correct the violations of this rogue nation....our rogue nation. We will fix this because nobody else can. You will work to help me help us all to fix this failure. After you're done educating yourself, Action!!!
So facts to you are propaganda? Do you know the difference between primary and secondary radar? Do you still deny that there were gaps in primary radar coverage back in September 2001? And in regards to all of the impact videos, are you still claiming that news networks and eyewitnesses fabricated the events? For anyone interested, here's a primary radar coverage map of the US. Note the gaps in the New England area, as well as West Virginia. From Plane Swap Over Pennsylvania Southwestern Pennsylvania is covered by a radar station near Clearfield, 100 miles northeast of Pittsburgh. The area lies clearly inside the orange circle, therefore a plane has to be below 5000 ft to avoid radar detection there. Due to the conic shape of the space covered by a radar station, the closer a plane is to the station, the lower it has to fly to be undetected by radar. 4000 ft seems to be a sufficiently accurate estimation for UA 93 when it disappeared from radar southeast of Pittsburgh. I am claiming that you are being disingenuous, deceitful, manipulative, corrupt.... On this particular subject you are willing to lie, digress, strawman, transpose..... Ask yourself why? Do not say "so what if I exaggerate this or that. I know I'm right" That is still a lie. Why are you willing to be less than 100% honest about this subject? You have proven that you are not being a part of this conversation for the research but rather just to argue in a snotty shitty manner. Is that you? A snotty and shitty debater resorting to the well known tactics of disinformation to claim your mental victory in your heart? I hope not. Stop making stuff up. Stop putting words into other peoples mouths stop making assumptions from a position of ignorance. And for fucks sake if you are not gonna read the material please do not post page after page about it.... (and a light gloss over does not count as reading it) You have latched on hard to this radar thing and like I said the east coast has no gaps.... to be honest though I am not confident your sources given your previous shady choices of organisations you consider reputable... Your citations look like you are reaching for anything that can justify your position and online anyone of us can do that if we look long enough. Meanwhile you are transposing yourself onto me. I have enough facts. They are truth and I recognise them in that regard...you on the other hand lurker, are eating up lies and spouting them out with a passion...Their is no observable wake vortex and if you still don't understand that, it means that the wake of the plane should of trailed into the building swirling smoke and fire from the explosion.... That it did not... that it rose in a typical bloom... Well we can call it a fact of the video. First though you need to understand why the wake trail follows a plane to be able to understand what should of happened. Like the cell phone thing. Everyones cell phone magically worked that day.... sigh.... Overcome the mental manipulation. Instead of just being insulting, distracting, pointlessly argumentative, ____________________________________________________________ . . . The US government has declared civil war on itself. Its lust for war grew so great... Liberty before death. We run , we live, We fight again, till we win. We did not start this fight. We damn sure did not willingly pay our taxes to buy the bullets and drones that shall be used to kill us. We will correct the violations of this rogue nation....our rogue nation. We will fix this because nobody else can. You will work to help me help us all to fix this failure. After you're done educating yourself, Action!!!
When you watch this stuff That second compilation video... You posted it... So you watched it right? Should you watch it again I'd like to know how you ignore the different trajectories of impact, the different sizes of plane, The little helicopters that can fly through the smoke without fear and with out the rotor blades disturbing the smoke... How do you watch it and ignore the discrepancies? ____________________________________________________________ . . . The US government has declared civil war on itself. Its lust for war grew so great... Liberty before death. We run , we live, We fight again, till we win. We did not start this fight. We damn sure did not willingly pay our taxes to buy the bullets and drones that shall be used to kill us. We will correct the violations of this rogue nation....our rogue nation. We will fix this because nobody else can. You will work to help me help us all to fix this failure. After you're done educating yourself, Action!!!
Those that want to call that fake, despite not having hardly any witnesses to back up their theory are just plain nuts or are not really truthers and are just trying to make the truth movement look bad. I suspect it is the latter.
God is always good!
Fuck you especially little shit. Lurker I like, you? not as much. I mean oh boy whoopide doo look at me I'm a truther... BIG DEAL! That is not changing the nation! That is not keeping our troops out of Libya, that is not freeing bradly manning, that is not restoring my megaupload files, and it is most definitely not winning us the civil war. truther is not a code word for rebel. Let us be blunt. We are designated terrorists already... I'd rather consider myself something else. And as a truther what "truth"? have you shared? Where? When? How far have you gone? meh... moot questions. Truth pah... so sick of that.... it is so much better to be a midnight activist. At least the effect is noticeable. Their were enough lives for one full plane... one full plane went else where.... god rest their souls. That crew passenger manifest got split up in paperwork and assigned to four fictitious paper planes. A few keystrokes and it is as easy as that. As Easy as hacking Diebold. The rest was real estate development , exotic weapon testing , and wholesale mass murder. Bad stuff. Understanding the facts of the matter, following the money, motives, claims, construction, destruction, really every feasible scientific aspect of the event, or at least attempting too, does not make me a shill or liar or anti truther, I am not trying to make any movement look bad... the truth movement is not moving anywhere. We live in the days of the occupation now. Get with the times. Truth is that it is on us to teach the truth to our children and protect them and ourselves from an insane pyscho government that has decided to obey laws and edicts of other nations as it has declared war on itself.... That is some scary shit. Fuck you for not grasping that. The US military is at this moment killing US citizens abroad..... possibly at home... we will not be properly informed about it anymore.... If that is not to be considered civil war then what is it.... waton murder of innocent people with out charge or trial or proper reason? No... as tax dollars are paying for it I'd call that war... www.npr.org/2012/03/06/14...drone-strikes-on-citizens See FM I can digress too. Just for Rickys sake though. ____________________________________________________________ . . . The US government has declared civil war on itself. Its lust for war grew so great... Liberty before death. We run , we live, We fight again, till we win. We did not start this fight. We damn sure did not willingly pay our taxes to buy the bullets and drones that shall be used to kill us. We will correct the violations of this rogue nation....our rogue nation. We will fix this because nobody else can. You will work to help me help us all to fix this failure. After you're done educating yourself, Action!!!
I am claiming that you are being disingenuous, deceitful, manipulative, corrupt.... And I am stating that you appear to either be a whackjob, a liar, or a paid shill. You run away from facts, claiming "spam" when evidence is posted. You are wrong about the radar coverage, and you obviously have no clue at all about what you're talking about, never responding to a direct factual contradiction of what you've claimed. Instead you spew nonsense, profanity, and claim I'm somehow lying about well known facts. Stop making stuff up. Stop putting words into other peoples mouths stop making assumptions from a position of ignorance. And for fucks sake if you are not gonna read the material please do not post page after page about it.... (and a light gloss over does not count as reading it) It is you who is making "shit up". You are lying about the radar coverage, and I AM saying you are lying because you ignore the actual facts and pretend they don't exist in terms of the two different types of radar, and that there WERE holes in the primary radar coverage at the time. I'm unsure if they still exist, but they DID back then at least. You claim I'm putting words in your mouth, yet you pretend that you AREN'T saying what you ARE saying. For YOUR "no-planes" theory to be true, all of the networks and camera crews would had to have been knowlingly broadcasting fabricated video, and all of the actual witnesses would ALSO have to be part of the scam. Yet you claim you aren't saying that. Then exactly WHAT THE FUCK ARE you saying? I am leaning towards the latter myself. Real people can't be THAT stupid, if they are in fact a "truther". Should you watch it again I'd like to know how you ignore the different trajectories of impact, the different sizes of plane, Point out even ONE example of any of that. The videos are from different angles, and from what I can see they all show the same exact event, with no difference in sizes of the planes. You've heard of zoom lens, right? The little helicopters that can fly through the smoke without fear and with out the rotor blades disturbing the smoke... The "little helicopters" were NOT "flying through the smoke" genius, they were flying near it. Watch again and point out the time stamp where what you claim actually occurs. You protest too much to not be exactly what I think you are. Instead of presenting facts and using logic you give tripe responses and use faulty logic. God is always good!
Sure it is. It's just a big empty shell that weighs next to nothing, in your universe at least. In THIS universe, planes such as a Boing 767 are loaded with avionics, fuel, interior structure, big heavy engines, and weigh roughly 300,000 pounds. A .308 bullet weighs roughly 180 grains (a little less than 12 grams), and travels at 2740 feet per second (1868 mph). Energy of the projectile at the muzzle is 3000 foot pounds. A 767 weighing 300,000 pounds travelling at 500 mph has a kinetic energy as per the formula; E (foot pounds) = 1/2 mv2, where m is mass and v is velocity (feet per second). 500 mph = 733 feet per second, so; [Edit] Oops, it's the velocity squared, not the product of the mass times the velocity that's squared. So let's do this again... 0.5 * 300,000 lbs * 7332 = 80,593,350,000 foot pounds, or roughly 80.6 billion foot pounds of energy, or 80.6 x 109. That's still a LOT of energy. I'd STILL say that's more than enough energy to slice through a skyscraper such as the WTC without any problem whatsoever. So you're now saying that the airlines were in it too? You actually believe that those flights never flew that day, and that those people never took off from the respective airports reported? I would have to say that's one of the nuttier things I've heard concerning 9/11. So now we have several airlines, three airports, families of the passengers, all news networks and their news crews in New York City, and all of the eyewitnesses who are all complicit with fabricating the whole thing, with production studios involved who could fake 50 or so videos of the impacts, with all of the players acting out the script in real time flawlessly. [Edit] And oh yeah, I forgot to mention the FAA and its air traffic controllers, they were in on it too in your world. Uh huh. Please, stop with the obtuse act and overcomplications. You're the only one implying that everyone involved would've had to have been knowingly "in on it". It's not a case of "either...or" -- all complicit, scripted actors or all true. It's more a case like Orson Welles' radio program, "War of the Worlds" or "Broadcasting from the Barricades", a similar and earlier "live-radio" pretense over in England as if a Communist Revolution was in-process there. In both cases, people not "in on it" were swept into the staged-plays as if what they were hearing was actually happening. In the case of 9/11 air traffic controllers, one that was assigned to both alleged planes said to have crashed at the Towers had also been assigned to Egypt Air 990. The other ATCs on 9/11 needn't have been "in on it" if he was. This coincidence or not and the above radio-examples aren't submitted for your approval. They are to simply show that the scope of your claim is hyperinflated. Edited for spelling. ------- "They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
You actually believe that those flights never flew that day, and that those people never took off from the respective airports reported? I would have to say that's one of the nuttier things I've heard concerning 9/11. So now we have several airlines, three airports, families of the passengers, all news networks and their news crews in New York City, and all of the eyewitnesses who are all complicit with fabricating the whole thing, with production studios involved who could fake 50 or so videos of the impacts, with all of the players acting out the script in real time flawlessly. [Edit] And oh yeah, I forgot to mention the FAA and its air traffic controllers, they were in on it too in your world. Uh huh. I can't see people being silent about not seeing air planes or hearing them. They would let people know they were there and heard and saw no plane hit the WTC, but heard an explosion. Trying to pull off 9/11 with no planes and pretending the planes crashed into the buildings has too many chances to be discovered as a hoax. Anyone with a camcorder pointing at the south tower that day who saw it explode with no plane hitting it would have proved it was a hoax. No videos of that exist today even though there were many people with cam-corders that day filming the North Tower after it was hit. Surely some of them were filming from the South and would have caught the explosion on the side of the South tower with no plane hitting it, but there is no such video that I know of. The planners of 9/11 would not have risked this possibility when it is so much easier to just crash a plane into the building for real. God is always good!
You are lying again or you simply did not pay enough attention. Which is it. Because now this is pretty direct and I am leaning toward a lack of attention. in post 276 you posted a compilation vid. minute 0:56. start up around there. Should be a BIG plane edit... Anyways.... you'll note the helicopter flying in through the smoke with no affect on the smoke, top right of your screen. IF you can't see it get a child that can hear mosquito tones to help point it out to you. ____________________________________________________________ . . . The US government has declared civil war on itself. Its lust for war grew so great... Liberty before death. We run , we live, We fight again, till we win. We did not start this fight. We damn sure did not willingly pay our taxes to buy the bullets and drones that shall be used to kill us. We will correct the violations of this rogue nation....our rogue nation. We will fix this because nobody else can. You will work to help me help us all to fix this failure. After you're done educating yourself, Action!!!
Yes, I think so. That's it, it seems. With all due respect, FL, my friend. There are people who've said they were there and did not see or hear a plane or just heard an explosion. One of them can be heard in a breaking news interview at the start of the video here: September 11, 2001 - As It Happened - The South Tower Attack People who believe remote control was likely used that day shouldn't have difficulty with considering electronic signal jamming during acts of War, which 9/11 was against America. That wouldn't have to be for longer than a few seconds before the Tower explosions to interrupt camera equipment and cellphones from filming in the area. ------- "They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
On the issue of different plane trajectories, the video above at #297 has MSM newsclips of different smoke trajectories as well. For comparison, a plane image can be seen flying in from the right side of the screen and leftward towards the South Tower in two broadcasts. In one it flies right to left over the water towards the South Tower through a clear sky, with smoke from the North Tower moving away from it towards the left of the screen. In another broadcast, the plane image is still moving right to left towards the South Tower but the smoke is moving over it towards the right side of the screen. On wake vortex, an example of that can be seen in the movie, Hamburger Hill. ------- "They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
There is no sense talking about this anymore. There is not enough evidence to say there were no planes, you have to stretch the limits of technology and people control too far for that to be a serious consideration. The easy way is just to crash the planes into the buildings for real, which is more than likely exactly what they did. I won't be commenting on this again. I have wasted far too much of my time talking about it already.
God is always good!
Some excerpts from: The Comment section of: 9-11 Airplane Affidavit By John Lear, Son Of Learjet Inventor We Have Some Holes in the Plane Stories Monday, March 27th, 2006 The two American Airlines Boeing 767s in question—tail numbers N334AA and N644AA—were deregistered January 14, 2002, but without evidence they were involved in the alleged flights. The two United Airlines aircraft that allegedly crashed that day—tail number N612UA for Flight 175 and N591UA for Flight 93—were deregistered four years later on September 28, 2005, despite a requirement that destroyed aircraft be deregistered within 24 hours. the [Pentagon] aircraft performed an acrobatic 270 degree (or 330 degree according to The 9/11 Commission Report) dive from 7,000 feet (an altitude known to the FAA despite the transponder off) Reported altitude with transponder off...would you care to give your opinion on that anomaly, FL? 9-11 Commission Report: The Most Ridiculous Conspiracy Theory Of All Time - State of the Nation 2012 ------- "They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
Only in your head, Ricky, because you underestimate the ease at which the population is controlled and overestimate the amount of work and people involved to fool enough people like you that there were planes. More bullshit. 9/11 Airplane Affidavit By John Lear, Son Of Learjet Inventor 0 By John Rolls Jerry V. Leaphart #jl4468 Jerry V. Leaphart & Assoc., P.C. 8 West Street, Suite 203 Danbury, CT 06810 (203) 825-6265 – phone (203) 825-6256 – fax jsleaphart@cs.com UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF NEW YORK DR. MORGAN REYNOLDS, on behalf of : The United States of America : Plaintiff, : ECF CASE vs. : : 07 CIV 4612 (GBD) SCIENCE APPLICATIONS : INTERNATIONAL CORP., et al : January 28, 2008 Defendants. : AFFIDAVIT STATE OF NEVADA : COUNTY OF CLARK : JOHN LEAR, of full age, being duly sworn, deposes and says: I. 1. I am 65 years of age, a retired airline captain and former CIA pilot with over 19,000 hours of flight time, over 11,000 of which are in command of 3 or 4 engine jet transports, have flown over 100 different types of aircraft in 60 different countries around the world. I retired in 2001 after 40 years of flying. 2. I am the son of Learjet inventor, Bill Lear, and hold more FAA airman certificates than any other FAA certificated airman. These include the Airline Transport Pilot certificate with 23 type ratings, Flight Instructor, Flight Engineer, Flight Navigator, Ground Instructor, Aircraft Dispatcher, Control Tower Operator and Parachute Rigger. 3. I flew secret missions for the CIA in Southeast Asia, Eastern Europe, the Middle East and Africa between 1967 and 1983. 4. During the last 17 years of my career I worked for several passenger and cargo airlines as Captain, Check Airman and Instructor. I was certificated by the FAA as a North Atlantic (MNPS) Check Airman. I have extensive experience as command pilot and instructor in the Boeing 707, Douglas DC-8 and Lockheed L-1011. 5. I checked out as Captain on a Boeing 707 in 1973 and Captain on the Lockheed L-1011 in 1985. 6. I hold 17 world records including Speed Around the World in a Lear Jet Model 24 set in 1966 and was presented the PATCO (Professional Air Traffic Controller's Association) award for Outstanding Airmanship in 1968. I am a Senior Vice-Commander of the China Post 1, the American 2 Legions Post for "Soldiers of Fortune", a 24 year member of the Special Operations Association and member of Pilotfor911truth.org. 7. I have 4 daughters, 3 grandchildren and live with my wife of 37 years, Las Vegas business woman Marilee Lear in Las Vegas, Nevada. II. 8. No Boeing 767 airliners hit the Twin Towers as fraudulently alleged by the government, media, NIST and its contractors. Such crashes did not occur because they are physically impossible as depicted for the following reasons: A. In the case of UAL 175 going into the south tower, a real Boeing 767 would have begun 'telescoping' when the nose hit the 14 inch steel columns which are 39 inches on center. The vertical and horizontal tail would have instantaneously separated from the aircraft, hit the steel box columns and fallen to the ground. B. The engines when impacting the steel columns would have maintained their general shape and either fallen to the ground or been recovered in the debris of the collapsed building. One alleged engine part was found on Murray Street but there should be three other engine cores weighing over 9000 pounds each. Normal operating temperatures for these engines are 650°C so they could not possibly have burned up. This is a photo of a similar sized engine from a McDonnell-Douglas MD-11 which impacted the ocean at a high rate of speed. You can see that the engine remains generally intact.(photo, www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/03/27/world/main546355. shtml) 3 C. When and if the nose of an airplane came in contact with the buildings 14 inch by 14 inch steel box columns and then, 37 feet beyond, the steel box columns of the building core the momentum of the wings would have slowed drastically depriving them of the energy to penetrate the exterior steel box columns. The spars of the wing, which extend outward, could not possibly have penetrated the 14 inch by 14 inch steel box columns placed 39 inches on center and would have crashed to the ground. D. The argument that the energy of the mass of the Boeing 767 at a speed of 540 mph fails because: a. No Boeing 767 could attain that speed at 1000 feet above sea level because of parasite drag which doubles with velocity and parasite power which cubes with velocity. b. The fan portion of the engine is not designed to accept the volume of dense air at that altitude and speed. E. The piece of alleged external fuselage containing 3 or 4 window cutouts is inconsistent with an airplane that hit 14 inch steel box columns, placed 39 inches in center, at over 500 mph. This 4 fuselage section would be telescopically crumpled had it actually penetrated the building as depicted in the CNN video. It is impossible for it to have then re-emerged from the building and then fallen intact and unburned as depicted. F. The Purdue video fails because no significant part of the Boeing 767 or engine thereon could have penetrated the 14 inch steel columns and 37 feet beyond the massive core of the tower without part of it falling to the ground. The Purdue video misrepresents the construction of the core of the building and depicts unidentified parts of the airplane snapping the core columns which were 12"x36". The Purdue video also misrepresents what would happen to the tail when the alleged fuselage contacted the core. The tail would instantaneously separate from the empennage (aft fuselage). Further, the Purdue video misrepresents, indeed it fails to show, the wing box or center section of the wing in the collision with the core. The wing box is a very strong unit designed to hold the wings together and is an integral portion of the fuselage. The wing box is designed to help distribute the loads of the wings up-and-down flexing in flight. 5 G. My analysis of the alleged cutout made by the Boeing 767 shows that many of the 14-inch exterior steel box columns which are shown as severed horizontally, do not match up with the position of the wings. Further, several of the columns through which the horizontal tail allegedly disappeared are not severed or broken. In addition, the wing tips of the Boeing 767 being of less robust construction than the inner portions of the wings could not possibly have made the cookie-cutter pattern as shown in the aftermath photos. The wing tips would have been stopped by the 14 inch steel box columns and fallen to the ground. H. The debris of the Boeing 767, as found after the collapse, was not consistent with actual debris had there really been a crash. Massive forgings, spars from both the wing and horizontal and vertical stabilizers, landing gear retract cylinders, landing gear struts, hydraulic reservoirs and bogeys oxygen bottles, a massive keel beam, bulkheads and the wing box itself cold not possibly have 'evaporated' even in a high intensity fire. The debris of the collapse should have contained massive sections of the Boeing 767, including 3 engine cores weighing approximately 9000 pounds apiece which could not have been hidden. Yet there is no evidence of any of these massive structural components from either 767 at the WTC. Such complete disappearance of 767s is impossible. III. 9. My opinion, based on extensive flight experience both as captain and instructor in large 3 and 4 engine aircraft is that it would have been impossible for an alleged hijacker with little or no time in the Boeing 767 to have taken over, then flown a Boeing 767 at high speed, descending to below 1000 feet above mean sea level and flown a course to impact the twin towers at high speed for these reasons: 6 A. As soon as the alleged hijackers sat in the pilots seat of the Boeing 767 they would be looking at an EFIS (Electronic Flight Instrumentation System) display panel comprised of six large multi-mode LCDs interspersed with clusters of 'hard' instruments. These displays process the raw aircraft system and flight data into an integrated picture of the aircraft situation, position and progress, not only in the horizontal and vertical dimensions, but also with regard to time and speed as well. Had they murdered the pilot with a box knife as alleged there would be blood all over the seat, the controls, the center pedestal, the instrument panel and floor of the cockpit. The hijacker would have had to remove the dead pilot from his seat which means he would have had electrically or manually place the seat in its rearmost position and then lifted the murdered pilot from his seat, further distributing blood, making the controls including the throttles wet, sticky and difficult to hold onto. Even on a clear day a novice pilot would be wholly incapable of taking control and turning a Boeing 767 towards New York because of his total lack of experience and situational awareness under these conditions. The alleged hijackers were not 'instrument rated' and controlled high altitude flight requires experience in constantly referring to and cross-checking attitude, altitude and speed instruments. Using the distant horizon to fly 'visually' under controlled conditions is virtually impossible particularly at the cruising speed of the Boeing 767 of .80 Mach. The alleged 'controlled' descent into New York on a relatively straight course by a novice pilot in unlikely in the extreme because of the difficulty of controlling heading, descent rate and descent speed within the parameters of 'controlled' flight. Its takes a highly skilled pilot to interpret the "EFIS" (Electronic Flight Instrument Display) display, with which none of the hijacker pilots would have been familiar or received training on, and use his controls, including the ailerons, rudder, elevators, spoilers and throttles to effect, control and maintain a descent. The Boeing 767 does not fly itself nor does it automatically correct any misuse of the controls. 7 B. As soon as the speed of the aircraft went above 360 knots (=414 mph) indicated airspeed a "clacker" would have sounded in the cockpit. The 'clacker' is a loud clacking sound, designed to be irritating, to instantly get the attention of the pilot that he is exceeding the FAA-authorized speed of the aircraft. The clacker had no circuit breaker on September 11, 2001 although it does now simply because one or more accidents were caused, in part, by the inability to silence the clacker which made decision, tempered with reasoning, impossible because of the noise and distraction. C. Assuming, however, that the alleged hijacker was able to navigate into a position to approach the WTC tower at a speed of approximately 790 feet per second the alleged hijacker would have about 67 seconds to navigate the last 10 miles. During that 67 seconds the pilot would have to line up perfectly with a 208 ft. wide target (the tower) and stay lined up with the clacker clacking plus the tremendous air noise against the windshield and the bucking bronco-like airplane, exceeding the Boeing 767 maximum stability limits and encountering early morning turbulence caused by rising irregular currents of air. He would also have to control his altitude with a high degree of precision and at the alleged speeds would be extremely difficult. In addition to this the control, although hydraulically boosted, would be very stiff. Just the slightest control movements would have sent the airplane up or down at thousands of feet a minute. To propose that an alleged hijacker with limited experience could get a Boeing 767 lined up with a 208 foot wide target and keep it lined up and hold his altitude at exactly 800 feet while being aurally bombarded with the clacker is beyond the realm of possibility. [NIST claims a descent from horizontal angle of 10.6 degrees for AA11 at impact and 6 degrees for UA175; see page 276 of 462 in NCSTAR 1-2]. That an alleged hijacker could overcome all of these difficulties and hit a 208 foot wide building dead center at the north tower and 23 feet east of dead center at the south tower is simply not possible. At the peak of my proficiency as a pilot I know that I could not have done it on the first pass. And for two alleged hijackers, with limited 8 experience to have hit the twin towers dead center on September 11, 2001 is total fiction. It could not happen. IV. 10. No Boeing 767 airliner(s) exceeded 500 mph in level flight at approximately 1000 feet on 9/11 as fraudulently alleged by the government, media, NIST and its contractors because they are incapable of such speeds at low altitude. 11. One of the critical issues of the 'impossible' speeds of the aircraft hitting the World Trade Center Towers alleged by NIST as 443 mph (385 kts. M.6, American Airlines Flight 11) and 542 mph (470 kts. M.75, United Airlines 175) is that the VD or dive velocity of the Boeing 767 as certificated by the Federal Aviation under 14 CFR Part 25 Airworthiness Standards; Transport Category Transports of 420 kts CAS (Calibrated Air Speed) makes these speeds achievable. This is unlikely. 12. The 'Dive Velocity' VD is 420 knots CAS (calibrated airspeed)(483 mph). Some allege that this speed, 420 knots (483 mph) is near enough to the NIST alleged speeds that the NIST speeds 443 (385 kts.) mph and 542 mph (471 kts.), could have been flown by the alleged hijackers and are probably correct. 9 13. In fact VD of 420 knots (483 mph) is a speed that is a maximum for certification under 14 CFR Part 25.253 High Speed Characteristics and has not only not necessarily been achieved but is far above VFC (390 kts. 450 mph) which is the maximum speed at which stability characteristics must be demonstrated.(14 CFR 25.253 (b). 14. What this means is not only was VD not necessarily achieved but even if it was, it was achieved in a DIVE demonstrating controllability considerably above VFC which is the maximum speed under which stability characteristics must be demonstrated. Further, that as the alleged speed is considerably above VFC for which stability characteristics must be met, a hijacker who is not an experienced test pilot would have considerable difficulty in controlling the airplane, similar to flying a bucking bronco, much less hitting a 208 foot target dead center, at 800 feet altitude (above mean sea level) at the alleged speed. 15. Now to determine whether or not a Boeing 757 or Boeing 767 could even attain 540 miles per hour at 800 feet we have to first consider what the drag versus the power ratio is. Drag is the effect of the air pushing against the frontal areas of the fuselage and wing and horizontal and vertical stabilizers. Drag also includes the friction that is a result of the air flowing over these surfaces. If there was no drag you could go very fast. But we do have drag and there are 2 types: induced and parasite. Assume we are going 10 really fast as NIST and the defendants claim, then we don't have to consider induced drag because induced drag is caused by lift and varies inversely as the square of the airspeed. What this means is the faster you go the lower the induced drag. What we do have to consider is parasite drag. Parasite drag is any drag produced that is not induced drag. Parasite drag is technically called 'form and friction' drag. It includes the air pushing against the entire airplane including the engines, as the engines try to push the entire airplane through the air. 16. We have two other things to consider: induced power and parasite power. Induced power varies inversely with velocity so we don't have to consider that because we are already going fast by assumption and it varies inversely. Parasite power however varies as the cube of the velocity which means to double the speed you have to cube or have three times the power. 17. So taking these four factors into consideration we are only concerned with two: parasite power and parasite drag, and if all other factors are constant, and you are level at 800 feet and making no turns, the parasite drag varies with the square of the velocity but parasite power varies as the cube of the velocity. What this means is at double the speed, drag doubles and the power required to maintain such speed, triples. The airspeed limitation for the Boeing 767 below approximately 23,000 feet is 360 kts [414 mph] or what they call VMO (velocity maximum operating). 11 That means that the maximum permissible speed of the Boeing 767 below 23,000 feet is 360 knots and it is safe to operate the airplane at that speed but not faster. 18. While the Boeing 767 can fly faster and has been flown faster during flight test it is only done so within carefully planned flight test programs. We can safely infer that most commercial 767 pilots have never exceeded 360 knots indicated air speed below 23,000 feet. 19. The alleged NIST speed of 443 mph (385 kts,) for American Airlines Flight 11 would be technically achievable. However the NIST speed of 542 mph (470 kts) for United Airlines Flight 175 which is 50 kts. above VD is not commensurate with and/or possible considering: (1) the power available,* ** (2) parasite drag (NAVAIR 00-80T-80 Aerodynamics for Naval Aviators (3) parasite power (NAVAIR 00-80T-80 Aerodynamics for Naval Aviators (4) the controllability by a pilot with limited experience. 14 CFR Part 25.253 (a)(b) * www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/GenPDF.asp?id=DCA01MA063&rpt=fa ** www.content.airbusworld.c...DF-tcds/PW/PW4000_FAA.pdf 20. Therefore the speed of the aircraft, that hit the World Trade Center, as represented by NIST, particularly that of United Airlines Flight 175 is fraudulent and could not have occurred. 12 21. One more consideration is the impossibility of the PW4062 turbofan engines to operate in dense air at sea level altitude at high speed. The Boeing 767 was designed to fly at high altitudes at a maximum Mach of .86 or 86/100ths the speed of sound. This maximum speed is called MMO, (Maximum Mach Operating). Its normal cruise speed, however, is Mach .80 (about 530 mph) or less, for better fuel economy. (The speed of sound at 35,000 feet is 663 mph so 530 mph is Mach .7998 see www.grc.nasa.gov/WWW/K-12/airplane/sound.html.) The fan tip diameter of the PW4062 which powered UAL 175 was 94 inches, over 7 feet in diameter making it, essentially a huge propeller. This huge fan compresses enormous amount of air during takeoff to produce the thrust necessary to get the airplane off of the ground and into the air. At high altitudes, in cruise, where the air is much thinner and where the engines are designed to fly at most of the time, the fan and turbine sections are designed to efficiently accept enormous amounts of this thin air and produce an enormous amount of thrust. But at low altitudes, in much denser air, such as one thousand feet, where the air is over 3x as dense as at 35,000 feet, going much faster than Vmo or 360 knots, the air is going to start jamming up in the engine simply because a turbofan engine is not designed to take the enormous quantities of dense air at high speed, low altitude flight. Because of the much denser air the fan blades will be jammed with so much air they will start cavitating or choking causing the engines to start spitting air back out the front. The turbofan tip diameter is over 7 feet; it simply cannot accept that much dense air, at that rate, because they aren't designed to. So achieving an airspeed much over its Vmo which is 360 knots isn't going to be possible coupled with the fact that because the parasite drag increases as the square of the speed and the power 13 required increases as the cube of the speed you are not going to be able to get the speed with the thrust (power) available. It can be argued that modern aerodynamic principles hold that if an aircraft can fly at 35,000 ft altitude at 540 mph (~Mach 0.8), and for a given speed, both engine thrust and airframe drag vary approximately in proportion to air density (altitude), that the engine can produce enough thrust to fly 540 mph at 800 ft. altitude. That argument fails because although the engine might be theoretically capable of producing that amount of thrust, the real question is can that amount of thrust be extracted from it at 540 mph at 800 ft. 22, To propose that a Boeing 767 airliner exceeded its designed limit speed of 360 knots by 127 mph to fly through the air at 540 mph is simply not possible. It is not possible because of the thrust required and it's not possible because of the engine fan design which precludes accepting the amount of dense air being forced into it. 23. I am informed that the lawsuit for which this affidavit is intended is in its preliminary, pre-discovery phase. I am further informed that actual eyewitness statements cast considerable doubt on the jetliner crash claims, irrespective of the media-driven impression that there were lots of witnesses. In fact, the witnesses tend, on balance, to confirm there were no jetliner crashes. I am also informed that information that will enable further refinement of the issues addressed in this affidavit will be forthcoming in discovery including, without limitation, the opportunity to 14 take depositions and to request relevant documentation (additional information). When that additional information is obtained, I will then be in a position to offer such other and further opinions as, upon analysis, that additional information will mandate. 24. At this stage, it cannot properly be assumed, much less asserted as factual, that wide-body jetliners crashed into the then Twin Towers of the WTC. Any declaration that such events occurred must be deemed false and fraudulently asserted, video images notwithstanding. Notes: 1. On any chart plotting velocity versus either drag or thrust required or power required the parasite value rises sharply after 300 kts, 2. On any chart plotting velocity versus thrust or power required the curves rises sharply after 250 kts. 3. On any chart plotting velocity versus thrust required at sea level, the curve rises dramatically above 200 kts as does the curve for power required. I swear the above statements to be true to the best of my knowledge. _/s/ John Olsen Lear___________ John Olsen Lear 1414 N. Hollywood Blvd. Las Vegas, NV 89110-2006 Subscribed and Sworn to before me this 24 day of January 2008. /s/ Connie Jones______________ Notary Public/Appt Exp. 11/22/09 Certificate #94-2650-1 15 This is the page for the Boeing 767-200 Type Data Certificate information from which was used in this affidavit: http://. This is the page that shows how dive tests are conducted: www.flightsimaviation.com/data/FARS/part_25-335.html This is the page for the type data certificate for the engines used on UAL175 www.content.airbusworld.c...DF-tcds/PW/PW4000_FAA.pdf This is the page that shows the type of engine used on the MD-11 that crashed into the ocean. (photo attached) www.bst.gc.ca/en/reports/.../01factual/rep1_06_01.asp 16 PICTURES AND ARTICLE HERE: Such a statement is what logicians call a falsifiable hypothesis because it can be shown to be either true or not true. It is an assertion that is readily testable, and relies on well-known engineering specifications for verification. To date, I have seen no one refute it, and to me at least it is one of the enduring mysteries that really stands out when I contemplate the years of arguments that have unfolded in the wake of the events of 9-11. Your mileage may vary, as they say. Also worthy of contemplation are the many analyses of the plane videos on that day. They have notable discontinuities and irregularities that defy explanation. I really don't know what to make of all this, but the rabbit hole, as all of you know who have suited up and dived into that declivity, is very deep indeed. It scares the crap outta me to think about it. Personally, I leave this aspect of the topic alone when discussing it with regular folks, because it causes them to back away slowly checking as they go to see if there are any blunt weapons within my reach. Nevertheless, people are really beginning to realize the magnitude of the deceptions perpetrated on that day, much as they have slowly come to accept the understanding that there is more than one ass in an assassination, and that JFK was not murdered by one man alone. I try not to scare them off. There are many other inconsistencies and problems with the Warren . . . er 911 Commission's conclusions and the leaky conventional 911 story. From the unlikely tale of the "hijackers" identity and behavior to the demolitions of three buildings - these things don't hang together and the logical discontinuities in the conventional narrative get people to think. I tend to stay away from this topic, but these facts (as presented for example by Lear) will also have to be dealt with in time. And I believe that in time they will be. This person firstly tries to cow all readers with his "accomplishments". Utterly amazing that the government never called him as an expert witness, unless of course they suspected he was a bit of a bullshit artist. Stating opinions against visual facts is asinine.
I do not know what happened that day, Cyni. You would do me a great service, sir, if you would kindly disprove this assertion: No Boeing 767 could attain that speed [540 mph] at 1000 feet. Check fully authenticated by crew and black box that a B707 flew on its back and in vertical dive that exceeded ALL parameters of the aircraft, full load of passengers, yet it landed safely. I would have to revisit the accident report to see what the highest speed attained was. Secondly and most importantly, I suspect the aircraft NEVER REACHED THAT SPEED. He did not say it ever did, just that it was impossible. That in no way proves or disproves what we saw happen. This part really floors anyone that ever spent any time in aviation.... 8. No Boeing 767 airliners hit the Twin Towers as fraudulently alleged by the government, media, NIST and its contractors. Such crashes did not occur because they are physically impossible as depicted for the following reasons: For one that is a self proclaimed expert, note he claims no aeronautical education at all, zip in education, something that is rather odd. I read his claim long ago and few people bought into it.
One has to use caution when reading self styled experts that "flew secret missions for the CIA". This update on John Lear is but a few days olde. John Lear 3 Dumbest Dark Side of the Moon Conspiracy Theories Posted by Harrison Preston in September 4th, 2012 Posted in: Conspiracy Theories Tags: dark side of the moon, john lear, karl wolf, moon base, moon conspiracies In the acclaimed book “A Culture of Conspiracy: Apocalyptic Visions in Contemporary America”, author Michael Barkun, professor emeritus of political science at Syracuse University, states there are three types of conspiracy theories: Event conspiracies, Systemic conspiracies and Superconspiracies (1). We believe there is a fourth type of conspiracy theory that professor Barkun may have overlooked in his otherwise excellent publication; the “Plain Dumb” conspiracy. There are a large number of conspiracies that fall in to this category, but what some people believe is happening on the dark side of the moon has to be seen to be believed. John Lear, the son of Bill Lear of “Lear Jet” fame, has claimed a number of startling and ridiculous “facts” about the dark side of the moon. John says there is a civilization of humans living there, breathing air in a region covered with lakes, rivers, forests and snow-capped mountain ranges! Furthermore, he believes the moon was towed into position by a “large” space ship, primarily to help jumpstart our fledgling civilization.
I have no more first hand knowledge of what a 707B did on its back during testing that I have of what Marilyn Monroe did on hers during the course of her career. But this does not answer the question about 767s. (707s were built to dual purpose civilian/military specs.) It is also important to know how fast whatever aircraft that hit the WTC/Pentagon were flying when they hit. There's a question that seems like it should be readily settled but is fraught with technical complications. Here's what one poster said on a thread at a site where the technical considerations are examined at a level somewhat beyond what we're doing here as most of posters have relevant qualifications: Trust me on this...the aviation aspects of the events on 9/11 are a very complex, intertwined, multilayered set of events that are partially simultaneous...and ALL events are affected by the intricacies of TIME...or...what happened when...and what else happened at that time...and what happened earlier...and what happened later. Its a FOURTH DIMENSION NIGHTMARE...to try and figure all of this out...and we are only about 10% of the way there. http://911blogger.com/news/2010-06-24/nasa-flight-director-confirms-911- aircraft-speed-improbable Trying to get hold of what happened on the day in question by focusing on the aircraft is kind of like attempting to capture a tiger by grabbing it by the tail. You are likely to suffer minor bites and scratches. I try to avoid going there. above sea level because of parasite drag which doubles with velocity and parasite power which cubes with velocity. b. The fan portion of the engine is not designed to accept the volume of dense air at that altitude and speed. The man's got a good point here. But what does he know?? randge... John Lear is a crackpot, what he states as facts are from his mind, whether correct or not I have no idea. Of course, there are a dozen people that have seen the dark side of the moon AND SAW NOTHING. But John Lear because he flew "secret missions" for the CIA can state without doubt that there are humans on the moon"... OK John, whatever.
The questions raised have nothing whatever to do logically with who raised them. Some questions still demand answers, no matter who may bring them up and whatever other crazed fantasies they cherish. Let's leave the ad hominems. We got enough to keep us busy here without them. Surely you jest???? No one paid any attention to Lear FOR A REASON. Flying secret missions for the CIA is not a qualifier. I believe it has been four years now and no one has bothered to address his assertions, whether it be for or against. I suspect if indeed all of which he asserts were true that hundreds of pilots and engineers would have lined up in support????????? All of his opinions are above my pay grade so I cannot refute anything. However when something does not pass the smell test, I pay attention. HE claims the men that have seen the back side of the moon ARE WRONG, they did not see what they saw, akin to what millions saw on live TV and they are all wrong. I stand by the flying telephone poles. Later I will dummy up a resume that PROVES I know what I am talking about.
Forget Lear. Listen to what pilots have to say that have time in these aircraft (toward the end of this video). SPEED - Scene from "9/11: WORLD TRADE CENTER ATTACK" by PilotsFor911Truth 2 years ago What???? Forget Lear????? Good heavens no. He was presented as some kind of expert by wudidiz. I even took time to read his resume, written by him. Did you know he even is connected to the cure for AIDS? Anyone that would try to read his self written life history, would quit in disgust and disbelief. wud needs to present more credible views than a widely known crackpot.
Listen to what PILOTS have to say that have time in these aircraft (toward the end of this video). SPEED - Scene from "9/11: WORLD TRADE CENTER ATTACK" by PilotsFor911Truth 2 years ago I listened to "PILOT" John Lear. All of the math is beyond me and does not compute. I would only add that the NTSB/FAA surely had equally qualified pilots that sifted thru the data. In fact during my time with them, the NTSB pilots were mostly all retired airline pilots.
That thought process requires logic Ricky. For some people, logic, probability, and reason may as well be voodoo. Because now this is pretty direct and I am leaning toward a lack of attention. in post 276 you posted a compilation vid. minute 0:56. start up around there. Should be a BIG plane edit... Anyways.... you'll note the helicopter flying in through the smoke with no affect on the smoke, top right of your screen. It is you who is lying there slick, that or you're blind as a bat, and/or your computer monitor sucks. Maybe all of the above. Here's the chronological sequence of that part of the clip;
At no time was the helicopter IN the smoke, it was closer to the observer filming than the smoke was. It's a simple matter of perspective where the helicopter was passing in front of the smoke, yet they were both relatively far away from the camera so they appear closer together than they actually were. If you were watching on a large HD monitor you'd be able to see that for a fact. As far as the "BIG plane", it is most certainly there at 1:00 - 1:01 of the clip. Really dude, are you that dumb and blind? Point out the time stamps where this allegedly occurs. Reported altitude with transponder off...would you care to give your opinion on that anomaly, FL? From NTSB - Flight Path Study - American Airlines Flight 77 So not only did military radar track the aircraft near DC, but Dulles approach control radar tracked it. Airport approach control radar is capable of determining altitude without the use of the transponder, and most likely the military radar was capable of it as well. What that affidavit indicates is that those weren't the actual 767's that were "hijacked". It indicates military jets of similar appearance were more than likely used. Those jets may have been reinforced in order to penetrate as they did, and may have been packed with explosives to cause them to disintegrate once inside the towers. We'll never know since the towers collapsed and the evidence was carted off to China. As far as the speed of the aircraft, more than likely it was slower than reported. Those videos don't appear to show a plane flying 500 mph, probably more like 300-400 mph. I suppose using trigonometry it would be possible to estimate the speed using the videos, if the distance between the camera and the aircraft were known. Then again if those were specially adapted military jets, who knows, they MIGHT have been travelling faster than what is possible for a standard 767. Yep, as one can readily find out using Google... Point out the time stamps where this allegedly occurs. 0:14 and 1:44 of the video "September 11, 2001 - As It Happened - The South Tower Attack" at Post #297: Edited for vid title and spacing. ------- "They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
Seriously GL? You ARE aware that those two clips are from two different viewing points, right? Turning the first clip around in perspective to that of the 2nd, they match. So, the transponders off mystique about 9/11 is hype and we can probably dispense with the radar gap contentions too because the Military was capable of all such tracking? -- yes or no. ------- "They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
I'm not convinced from your statement that simply a different viewing point perspective explains whether the direction of the smoke is moving over the plane or away from it in the opposite direction and those aren't the only examples of a difference in smoke trajectories as compared to the alleged plane.
------- "They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
Transponders are used for long range radar used by air traffic control. Airport approach radar is short range radar, but can measure altitude. I'm assuming the military radar was also airport control radar, probably based out of Andrews. When I retired, Andrews was FAA, no military involved in the DC area.
You are convincing yourself of something that is untrue. Assuming the top of the image represents north, the first clip was filmed from somewhere in line with the Verizon building, with the smoke blowing south. The second clip was filmed from a westerly direction in line with WFC 2 (left of the image), with the smoke blowing to the south as well. As I said, the videos confirm that the smoke was blowing in the same direction, and they match. Don't know about that one Cyni... There would be no delay in latency with the planes that hit the Twin Towers. They were headed for their mark, and they hit it. "When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall, one by one." Edmund Burke
I had some info that the Happy Hooligans from North Dakota were on call during the time that 9-11 went down. They received no alerts. "When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall, one by one." Edmund Burke
At Andrews?
As far as I know, yes. The Happy Hooligans were a combat group from North Dakota. They were assigned to Andrews as a defense squadron for the D.C. area, including the entire East Coast. It would have taken very little time to scramble them and get them to the NYC area. "When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall, one by one." Edmund Burke
Well of course they had to allow that cruise missile to hit the Pentagon, otherwise all of that planning and expense would have been for naught.
Here's the chronological sequence of that part of the clip; 0:58 small plane appears from left of screen travelling to the right 1:00 airliner approaching from right travelling left 1:01 airliner disappears from view as it impacts South tower 1:02 small plane disappears behind North tower 1:03 helicopter appears from right travelling left in front of smoke plume 1:13 helicopter travels out of view to left At no time was the helicopter IN the smoke, it was closer to the observer filming than the smoke was. It's a simple matter of perspective where the helicopter was passing in front of the smoke, yet they were both relatively far away from the camera so they appear closer together than they actually were. And here is the proper chronological sequence of those moments you listed. Fresh clip starts at 0:50/51 I believe I suggested you start at 56. 0:58 nothing but towers burning. And a helicopter. That was not a small plane. Their was no small plane traffic in that air space at that time. And if that small plane or helicopter or whatever was there for that angle then we should be able to observe it in every other angle right? I mean that small plane or helicopter as I suggest it is, if it is in that version then it is in all versions correct? TO CONTINUE at 1:00 the plane enters building...Bottom right just like you observed... takes about a whole second to enter building...ending at 1:01..... 500 mph and we get a relatively magnificent view of an object moving at such a high rate of speed.. but never mind that. MOVING ON at 1:02 in the top right a shadow against the smoke appears into view moving left on the screen in through the smoke and out... at 1:10/1:11 you should clearly see it above the needle of building 1. Two objects that for the sake of argument we shall refer to as the same to helicopters on the next clip ... from these two other objects we should be able to define a perfect perspective right? I mean we can figure where all three objects were at all times from all angles correct? Only those two helicopters are not in the clip after that.... nor are they present in all the various clips when it should be possible to see them. Many videos of higher clarity have mysteriously appeared over the years but they have not provided consistent records... Their have been discrepancies. And you can prove it to yourself by plotting the paths of those two helicopters I would bet... or helicopter and small plane if you prefer. One object above impact and one object below impact....only present on select versions... free yourself of the propaganda... ____________________________________________________________ . . . The US government has declared civil war on itself. Its lust for war grew so great... Liberty before death. We run , we live, We fight again, till we win. We did not start this fight. We damn sure did not willingly pay our taxes to buy the bullets and drones that shall be used to kill us. We will correct the violations of this rogue nation....our rogue nation. We will fix this because nobody else can. You will work to help me help us all to fix this failure. After you're done educating yourself, Action!!!
FAA staffed Andrews way back when I was a pup. Profile: Andrews Air Force Base Related Entities: Child... US Department of Defense. Andrews Air Force Base was a participant or observer in the following events: (Between 8:00 a.m. and 10:00 a.m.) September 11, 2001: Numerous Aircraft at Base near Washington Participating in Training Exercises Edit event Many aircraft at Andrews Air Force Base, which is just a few miles outside Washington, DC, are taking part in training exercises. James Ampey, an FAA air traffic controller who is currently on duty in the control tower at the base, will later recall that there are “an unusually high number of aircraft taking off and landing at Andrews [this] morning, because previously scheduled military exercises [are] underway.” [9/11 Commission, 7/28/2003 pdf file] It is unclear what specific exercises these aircraft are participating in, and the exact time period Ampey is referring to.
And that is to say nothing at all about the inconsistency of comparing the variety of sizes of plane shapes.
____________________________________________________________ . . . The US government has declared civil war on itself. Its lust for war grew so great... Liberty before death. We run , we live, We fight again, till we win. We did not start this fight. We damn sure did not willingly pay our taxes to buy the bullets and drones that shall be used to kill us. We will correct the violations of this rogue nation....our rogue nation. We will fix this because nobody else can. You will work to help me help us all to fix this failure. After you're done educating yourself, Action!!!
0:58 nothing but towers burning. And a helicopter. That was not a small plane It was shaped like a plane and moved too fast to be a helicopter. Ergo, a plane. at 1:02 in the top right a shadow against the smoke appears into view moving left on the screen in through the smoke and out... Either your monitor sucks, you aren't watching it full screen on a large enough monitor, or you need some stronger glasses. That or you're just pretending to be blind. ALSO, you are watching a compressed video which includes artifacting, ie. objects of similar color tend to blend together. HOWEVER, if you pay attention to the point it appears from the right corner of the view, and its complete flight across the screen, it is closer to the viewer than the smoke. Given the view appears to be facing eastward from the west, it was more than likely west of the North tower, thus west of the smoke, travelling north. Only those two helicopters are not in the clip after that.... nor are they present in all the various clips when it should be possible to see them. You're still grasping at straws and being disingenious. Immediately after the clip ends at 1:13, the next clip shows the same helicopter exactly where it should be in regards to the different viewing angle, ie. northwest of the WTC towers, thus it appears to be travelling slower due to the greater distance and the fact that it is heading north as seen from the northwest rather than due west. [Edit] And if you look at the clip immediately following that one, beginning at 1:44, THAT is video shot from the helicopter you are trying to claim wasn't there. Being that aircraft still take off and land there however, they must have some sort of airport control radar in place, correct? As I said, the videos confirm that the smoke was blowing in the same direction, and they match. I rotated your map pic a counterclockwise turn so that the left edge was moved to the bottom and the direction of the plane was flying from right to left towards Tower 2, as in both video clips. That does not explain for me the smoke plume's movement in opposite directions. Edited for grammar. ------- "They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
Yes... The changeover was made way back years ago for two reasons, the military people would be there a year or two and gone, plus they were very young. The deciding factor was that the President and other VIPs used Andrews so older, professionals, were desired.
That does not explain for me the smoke plume's movement in opposite directions. The smoke was moving south/southeast. If you see it any other way, you're confused as to what direction is which. Find me even one video where the smoke is not moving in the direction stated. In regards to the direction of the smoke in any of the videos, it is heading southeast if the top of the map is north. I was a bit off when I first thought it was heading south. The helicopter mentioned in earlier posts (1:03 to 1:13 in the 1st video below) was travelling from a position northwest of the North tower, heading northeast. I was mistaken about the other helicopter in the video immediately following (1:14 to 1:27), that one was a different news helicopter directly north of the North tower, and shot a video from that angle. That clip is in the 2nd YouTube video below, at 2:08 to 2:45. Viewing distance and zoom level make the perspectives somewhat difficult to judge, but not impossible to determine which one should be where in relation to its compass position relative to the North tower. I was correct about the video shot from the 1st helicopter, that one being the clip seen in the 1st video, 1:28 - 1:51. The 1st video shows a sequential panaromic collection of clips, starting with a view from the southwest, working clockwise around till the last clip viewed from the south. As far as the 1st helicopter, it can be seen in many of the clips if you watch for where it should be in relation to the North tower, whereas the 2nd helicopter can be seen in at least a few of them. The small plane I noticed in the 1st video at 0:58 - 1:02 is not the only instance of a similar type plane. There is one visible in the 2nd video at 1:55 - 1:57, and is apparently east of the WTC heading south. It is difficult to resolve its distance because of the fact zoom lens distort that dimension of perception. It apparently passed from left to right (north to south) and disappeared behind the North tower in the 1st video immediately before the strike by the airliner from the south. However, in the 2nd video one appears to travel north to south then disappear behind the North tower seconds AFTER the impact. If they were relatively far away, the speed traveled would have been quite fast, so it MAY have been military aircraft. There more than likely were two of them, since it wouldn't make sense for a single aircraft to pass east of the WTC from north to south seconds before the impact, and then once again seconds after the impact. 1st Video 2nd Video One side of the moon is not always dark. There is a far side of the moon from Earth that we never see, but is not always dark. God is always good!
"There is no dark side of the moon really." "Matter of fact it's all dark" You need to watch this till the end to get it... :) If you see nothing questionable in those examples then nevermind, FL. I could post more but what would be the point? That topic hasn't flown without much opposition [to views such as mine] even in No Planes circles and other 9/11 investigations of Media Fakery surely don't hinge on it. If I'm wrong, it wouldn't be the first time in my life but am not convinced at this point that you and likeminded others are correct. Don't want to mislead or confuse anyone if I might be mistaken and, even if I'm not, we'd likely be at another impasse from (as you said) seeing it any other way than you've noted. Will consider your input as I study the angles some more. People here can research and decide the issue of trajectories for themselves if interested. Edited for bracketed insert at sentence 3. ------- "They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
See post #344, it's a full analysis of the posted clips and observations.
Stop rationalising, stop justifying , stop defending the propaganda.... IF you see propaganda stop it right away and alert your fellow citizens to the danger. I dare say you have looked a bit closer... I mean you have admitted to alot of mistakes.... I did too before I accepted the truth of the matter. Not everyone has to be in on it. In fact the only one that has to be in on it is the media (TV, Radio, and Print at least) ... Everyone and everything everywhere else could easily be invented on paper... But they did and still do require media co-operation. And they have that. Lock stock and two mockingbird barrels. ____________________________________________________________ . . . The US government has declared civil war on itself. Its lust for war grew so great... Liberty before death. We run , we live, We fight again, till we win. We did not start this fight. We damn sure did not willingly pay our taxes to buy the bullets and drones that shall be used to kill us. We will correct the violations of this rogue nation....our rogue nation. We will fix this because nobody else can. You will work to help me help us all to fix this failure. After you're done educating yourself, Action!!!
and because you asked ____________________________________________________________ . . . The US government has declared civil war on itself. Its lust for war grew so great... Liberty before death. We run , we live, We fight again, till we win. We did not start this fight. We damn sure did not willingly pay our taxes to buy the bullets and drones that shall be used to kill us. We will correct the violations of this rogue nation....our rogue nation. We will fix this because nobody else can. You will work to help me help us all to fix this failure. After you're done educating yourself, Action!!!
Here is one more... I think this one might be better... IT addresses the trajectories .... Maybe you can debunk it Lurker...??? Hell Maybe even Ricky might give it a view... Who knows www.youtube.com/watch?v=NnhDqOJh_28 Worth a click lurker. ____________________________________________________________ . . . The US government has declared civil war on itself. Its lust for war grew so great... Liberty before death. We run , we live, We fight again, till we win. We did not start this fight. We damn sure did not willingly pay our taxes to buy the bullets and drones that shall be used to kill us. We will correct the violations of this rogue nation....our rogue nation. We will fix this because nobody else can. You will work to help me help us all to fix this failure. After you're done educating yourself, Action!!!
Well I better alert my fellow citizens to your propaganda then. You have been spreading propaganda that Trayvon Martin was killed in cold blood by a racist despite even his mother acknowledging that it was an accident. If you think for one second his mother would say it was a accident if she thought it was her son screaming on those tapes then you aren't thinking clearly to say the least. God is always good!
www.youtube.com/watch?v=NnhDqOJh_28 Oh yeah can anyone help with an embed? I mean I do not understand how the things presented in this video a refutable unless one simply insists upon not seeing what is in plane sight. www.youtube.com/watch?v=NnhDqOJh_28 Click it watch it. NOW ____________________________________________________________ . . . The US government has declared civil war on itself. Its lust for war grew so great... Liberty before death. We run , we live, We fight again, till we win. We did not start this fight. We damn sure did not willingly pay our taxes to buy the bullets and drones that shall be used to kill us. We will correct the violations of this rogue nation....our rogue nation. We will fix this because nobody else can. You will work to help me help us all to fix this failure. After you're done educating yourself, Action!!!
Aren't you the biggest pole smoker in the universe.... Fuck you and the tactics of disinformation fuck stain. We don't need to talk about trayvon martin... their are plenty of other places to talk about trayvon martin... This thread happens to be about 911. Fucking disinformant piece of shit. ____________________________________________________________ . . . The US government has declared civil war on itself. Its lust for war grew so great... Liberty before death. We run , we live, We fight again, till we win. We did not start this fight. We damn sure did not willingly pay our taxes to buy the bullets and drones that shall be used to kill us. We will correct the violations of this rogue nation....our rogue nation. We will fix this because nobody else can. You will work to help me help us all to fix this failure. After you're done educating yourself, Action!!!
I dare say if you looked beyond your ass, you'd see that you've been wrong in EVERYTHING you've said, yet have admitted nothing. I cleared up some minor errors in what I said, which if you were ever involved with HONEST research of any type, is common to do if you're an honest researcher. I could be like you and claim to be 100% right, knowing that I was bit off, well no, YOU would claim to be 100% right even if you were 100% wrong. Now that I've corrected my initial minor errors, I DO stand 100% by what I have said. Fuck you and the tactics of disinformation fuck stain. My my, what a mature little puke you are. Did mommy not love you enough when you were young? Or maybe you still ARE. Are you still living with your parents? You're a really bright one aren't you. Look it up genius. That video was obviously manipulated and edited, by people such as you or your friends. The original, live video does not show such manipulation. YOU are the one posting fraudulent video there slick. IT is fraudulent. Did you make it yourself? I would say ALL of your videos are bullshit. Use original videos, THEN indicate by timestamp where these irregularities are, maybe I'd take a closer look, but I'm NOT going to waste my time on video that's more than likely deliberately doctored to support your bizarre beliefs.
You see tit, the problem with you is that you depend on other people's doctored videos to justify your beliefs. I can view the original videos and see not only what happened, but prove that you ARE full of shit.
Ok. I see that YOU are posting propaganda. So everyone reading this, please be sure you're aware of it. Saw it, thanks. The smoke-blobs depicted on the map aren't comparative to me to the plume-directions in the video examples. I suspect that the WTC-1 smoke- plume would be moving towards the top of your map (as it's posted here). Even turning the map so that the pictured plane approaching WTC-2 looks to be flying in from the right of my screen with the smoke-plume moving leftward away from it (as in the first vid-example at 0:14), that doesn't help me to see a matching camera-angle for the smoke moving over the plane and to the right in the second example at 1:44 -- not from the Verizon building perspective or that vicinity. Maybe it's just me so I'll give it more thought when I can. ------- "They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
can anyone help with an embed? ------- "They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
This thread happens to be about 911. The names Martin and Zimmerman are listed as contributors on two of the bottom 3 lines of a Masonic capstone dedication for a timecapsule at Denver International Airport. ------- "They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
That video was obviously manipulated and edited, by people such as you or your friends. The original, live video does not show such manipulation. YOU are the one posting fraudulent video there slick. I am not surprised. It is obviously a way to try make 9/11 truthers look crazy to say there was no planes when there is no real evidence that is the case. Many no planners note how hard it would be for an aluminum plane to break through the steel beams surrounding the WTC towers. What they aren't considering though is that this was no ordinary plane that hit the towers. IMO it was made specifically for hitting the towers. Possibly even had a missile underneath it to clear a path for it just before it hit the building. God is always good!
For the no planers that say there were no pictures of the plane before it hit the building, only videos, they are wrong. There was a 35mm picture taken of the plane that hit the south tower. Many people that day said it looked like a military plane, not a commercial plane, that hit the south tower. People also said it looked like a military plane that hit the north tower as well. God is always good!
BTP H: I had some info that the Happy Hooligans from North Dakota were on call during the time that 9-11 went down. They received no alerts. BTP H: As far as I know, yes. The Happy Hooligans were a combat group from North Dakota. They were assigned to Andrews as a defense squadron for the D.C. area, including the entire East Coast. It would have taken very little time to scramble them and get them to the NYC area. From various reports I've read, the Happy Hooligans are the 119th Fighter Wing of North Dakota's Air National Guard (number synchronicity with 9/11, oddly enough). A detachment (of 4 F-16s, pilots and crew) was stationed at Langley AFB. Two or three of their jets and pilots were scrambled on 9/11. Brigadier/Major General David Wherley was the commander of the 113th Wing of the DC Air National Guard at Andrews AFB and the 121st Fighter Squadron is part of the 113th Wing. The Secret Service is said to have made the call for fighter jets to launch from Andrews and 4 reportedly did but only 2 with missiles; the other two with just guns. Their commander, Wherley, is reported to have given them ROE clearance to shoot at the discretion of the lead pilot. He [Wherley] was said to have died in a D.C. subway crash in 2009. The Happy Hooligans out of Langley were decorated for Aid Defense activities that day with an Outstanding Unit Award. The 112th Fighter Squadron (the Stingers) of Ohio's 180th Air National Guard Wing (number synchronicity with Andrews' 121st, maybe) were told to scramble two fighters and did (after asking the caller if they might have gotten a wrong number because they didn't have any birds on alert status there). It isn't known exactly who one of the pilots were but the two apparently weren't given specifics at the time other than turn east towards New York. A civilian Cleveland Center air traffic controller reportedly radioed one of them with ROE clearance to engage a non-military aircraft if necessary but directions from a civilian ATC is not an appropriate level for orders to engage or shootdown a target. The name of their commander that day was Raffa and he was said to have died in December of that year at the age of 44 from a heart attack. One pilot from the Ohio Stingers unit reportedly died in a crash in Iraq. One report says that the 9/11 Commission aknowleged two F-15 fighters of the 102nd Fighter Wing launched from Otis Air National Guard Base in Massachusettes and launches from Langley (the Happy Hooligans). Doesn't say that it mentions launches from Andrews or Ohio. One TV documentary that aired this week claims a civilian was asked to follow one of the 9/11 flights and the pilot planned to ram it if he could (because he had no weapons) and eject. This is a link to a 1-hour Google video, "9/11 Flight 93 Rare Footage", which seems to be a North Dakota tribute to the Happy Hooligans from 4 years ago. I haven't watched or listened to all of it but a speech starts at 09:03 (coincidence or number synchronicity to Flt. 93, which is part of the title) and it is mentioned that Cheney gave them the Pentagon's flag. In my opinion, it gets strange at the 11:16 mark. Something is said in that segment of it being America's first Patriot Day and there's a performance by the school's Spirit of '76 and Patriot Day Color Guard but they look like they're dressed as British Redcoats. Edited a sentence in paragraph 2 and two sentences in paragraph 3. ------- "They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
Nope, it's heading towards the bottom right, ie. southeast. If you orientate the position of the towers using the smoke plume as a compass needle pointing southeast, the towers line up perfectly with the map from every single direction filmed. The south tower was closest to the ocean, and that is where the airliner is seen approaching from, although it actually is coming a bit more from the south- southwest till it banks and slams into the south tower. You have been fooled to make the 9/11 movement look like a bunch of nuts with edited videos made after 9/11. To think there were no planes when there were hundreds of thousands of eye witnesses borders on insanity and is such faulty use of logic it even makes W look smart.
God is always good!
To avoid confusion, don't try to "turn the map around", rather place yourself from the appropriate viewing angle on the map and determine which way the smoke should be blowing, ie. southeast. The viewing angle in the section you refer to (assuming you're talking about the 2nd video) is northeast of the North tower, obscuring the view of the South tower. The smoke plume is heading exactly as I said, to the southeast, and expanding out into a wider plume further away. As I earlier said, distance is difficult to resolve in some clips due to the distance of the WTC from the camera and the amount of zoom applied. Look at 0:14 of the 1st video to see how that plume expanded over distance. But taking that sort of known visual distortion (in terms of the clip you refer to) into account, it all fits perfectly. At 1:44, the view is from the west of the WTC, the smoke is STILL blowing to the southeast (left to right and away from the North tower). The airliner does not fly through the smoke, it flies lower than the smoke and would be in front of it (closer to the viewer than the smoke is). They were either fooled into thinking that by rather amaturish attempts at video deception, or they are themselves the ones doing the deceiving. I think some honestly believe what they do out of pure gullibility. Others on the other hand are not so innocent. Those are usually the ones who "doth protest too much". Sort of ironic that they claim the WTC impact videos were faked by every network and camera man on the scene, where their "proof" is what is actually faked and easily spotted as such. FL: That video was obviously manipulated and edited, by people such as you or your friends. The original, live video does not show such manipulation. YOU are the one posting fraudulent video there slick. RickyJ: I am not surprised. It is obviously a way to try make 9/11 truthers look crazy to say there was no planes when there is no real evidence that is the case. That video (below) was posted and discussed quite a while ago in this forum -- I think before titorite was here. It is (as I recall) a manipulation, yes -- by the media -- for a later documentary pushing war against Iraq. The 9/11 imagery was darkened to look more terrifying for Islamophobic purposes. Am not surprised if Ricky and FL don't remember it or didn't see it because the more important issues to planers seems to be: 1. There was no such thing as any Media-Mockingbirds or Media-hoaxing on 9/11. 2. Remote control existed, glitch- free, and Zakheim would profit if it was used so it was. 3. John Lear's info is meaningless if planers don't like him. 4. Anyone who disagrees with planer dictats is __________ (fill in the ad hominem: nuts, extremely confused, a disinfo agent, etc., etc.) 9/11 TV Fakery: Smoke & Mirrors (short version) titorite, to post videos here, click the Share button under the YouTube, then the Embed button. Copy the code and paste it into the comment-box here. Edited for spelling. ------- "They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
I appreciate your effort to try and help on that and will look at it again when I can get back to it. Have other things right now that I need to be doing. Have a nice day all.
------- "They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
There are pictures of the plane that hit the south tower, not just videos. Do you think the pictures are fake too?
God is always good!
You should know, that it is much harder to alter a picture than a video without it being detected as being altered.
God is always good!
Find the original unaltered video. The person who edited the version you posted is more than likely the one who doctored it to make it look doctored. Pretty ironic that people who would fall for that are the same ones who claim the REAL videos were somehow "faked". As far as planes hitting the towers, it's pretty much a 100% certainly that some sort of plane hit the towers, using a combination of remote control and computer assisted GPS based guidence similar to a cruise missile, who knows what exactly. But simply because you don't feel the US is able to launch missiles and hit their targets accurately doesn't mean they can't, it just means you really don't view things logically. As far as Lear, sure he's a nut, but as far as the speed of the aircraft they more than likely weren't going as fast as reported, AND they more than likely were reinforced versions which could withstand higher loads. One more thing GL. There would be ZERO need to "fake" the smoke plume since I think we can all agree there at least was some sort of explosion in the North tower which could at least mimic an impact from an aircraft strike, prior to the strike to the South tower. So it's REALLY dumb to think doctored smoke plumes reveal the "truth", since there would have been no need to fake the smoke plumes one bit, if your little tale of make believe planes were really plausible, which it isn't. Again, you neglect the fact that millions of people witnessed the smoke, and at least hundreds of thousands saw the fireball from the South tower strike. I'd say at least tens of thousands actually saw the plane hit the South tower from an angle which included the approach of the plane. Were they all in cahoots with the news media too, along with the air traffic controllers and cameramen at the scene? Or was it just titorite who was claiming the hijacked planes never even took off that morning, and that the air traffic controllers were in on it? Some people just believe what they wish to believe, and once that belief becomes part of their world view, NOTHING will change it, facts, witnesses, evidence, logic, and reason be damned.
No I am not full of shit... I am able to accept the truth.... I do not need to tell people "please inform me" I am already informed.... I am not waiting to rebel... I am a rebel. I am not waiting for the shit to hit the fan... it has already hit the fan. I am not bidding my time waiting for the SS to knock on my door... I am trying to help others see through the viel of propaganda that is so thick and powerful that some of the brainwashed sheep will violently fight to maintain their manipulated mindset. You former lurker can not even civilly discuss this without sarcasm or snark or vileness. And you refuse to ask youself why that is.... The videos are not doctored... Their are multiple flight paths. The evidence is in your face once it is pointed out. After that it is on the individual to accept the truth or lie to themselves as you continue to do lurker.... It is sad. All this time you spent debating an old event that nobody will do anything about... you could of been researching the NLP of 911 .... something to few do... so many say "Oh I know what happened" or "I know why that didn't happen" But few ever discuss the NLP propaganda of 911 and the lasting after effects. You could learn all about the latest advances in propaganda instead following the latest advances in propaganda. ____________________________________________________________ . . . The US government has declared civil war on itself. Its lust for war grew so great... Liberty before death. We run , we live, We fight again, till we win. We did not start this fight. We damn sure did not willingly pay our taxes to buy the bullets and drones that shall be used to kill us. We will correct the violations of this rogue nation....our rogue nation. We will fix this because nobody else can. You will work to help me help us all to fix this failure. After you're done educating yourself, Action!!!
Uh huh. NOWHERE else have I seen step copied graduations of the smoke plume from the video you posted. The person even put in yellow borders to demonstrate where the video was doctored. Thing is, he more than likely is the person who did the doctoring. Do you even watch the videos that you post? In fact, YOU are claiming that ALL WTC 911 videos are somehow doctored aren't you? Out of curiousity, do you claim that there were no smoke plumes from the towers that day, and that they were simply added in real time to the live video? Or was there even ANY live video that day? What about the millions upon millions of people who looked out their windows, be it at work or from home, and saw with their own eyes what they were seeing on television? The thing is, you apparently have not seriously considered these things, and pretend they are irrelevant. They are HIGHLY relevant, and are what make your story fall apart like a deck of cards. Congratulations to the three of you. After 11 days and 381 posts, you've managed to sidetrack the topic of this thread, which is Israeli involvement in the 9/11 attacks and the arrest of Mossad agents that day found with tons of explosives near the George Washington Bridge, as well as how the buildings were wired with explosives and detonated. You've turned it into a ridiculous array of wild unprovable allegations concerning a massive conspiracy involving the television networks, camera crews, on-scene reporters, firemen, police, WTC survivors, bystanders, airlines, airports, air traffic controllers, and the FAA, where they all decided to fake plane crashes into the WTC and produce videos of fake planes, fake smoke, and fake fireballs. Do you guys get paid for this favor you did Israel? Short, to the point, honest and accurate. The government loves muddied waters.
It was not all bad. We've seen that there were anomalies in the configuration and behavior of the aircraft involved that cast doubt on the gov't fairy tale. We've also reviewed facts that showed that our national defenses were curiously down and out that day. If you have new stuff on the arrest of Mossad agentsl the explosives found near the George Washington Bridge, and how the buildings were wired, please bring us any new research, FL. I've been too busy to fool with it or I would have posted something on these topics. When shit gets bogged down, there is nothing wrong with changing direction. That beats cussing out whoever is getting under your skins at the moment. And yes. There are a lot of footprints here leading back to Israel. Without all the mud, and if the waters were clear, there'd be no way they could ignore the facts. It only serves the interest of those behind the attacks to divert attention away from undeniable verifiable facts, and to toss out unprovable claims and farfetched theories. Mossad agents were involved, thus Israel was involved, and that is what is usually totally ignored. It will continue to be ignored till there is a load enough collective voice screaming it. I think you are right here. At the time suspects were at hand, and if they had been brought to the bar publicly, facts would have come to light that would have brought an entirely different complexion to the interpretation of the events. And we wouldn't have spanked the wrong party. Do you guys get paid for this favor you did Israel? Short, to the point, honest and accurate. The government loves muddied waters. Disinformation is cheap, easy and effective. I think that is precisely why Alex Jones is doing what he is doing today. He is there to point the finger of blame away from Israel. Mixing the truth with disinfo is meant to lead people astray, divide the truth movement and help people dismiss the real truth of 9/11 because of all the false data thrown in to make truthers look like nuts. Even Jim Hoffman, who has an excellent site, and for the most part presents very logical arguments for 9/11 truth still himself throws in enough of the official story to lead people astray. All of this must be meant to protect the real perpetrators of 9/11 incase enough people wake up so they will not be blamed because their "leaders" in the truth movement have deceived them about the whole truth and who is more than likely responsible for 9/11. God is always good!
Cyni... Short, to the point, honest and accurate. The government loves muddied waters. Please. Get real. I hear you. I tried. I said I thot they were flying telephone poles. No one knew what I was talking about, they thot I was fibbing...again. Admit it wud, even you thot I was making it up. Good heavens.
You've turned it into a ridiculous array of wild unprovable allegations concerning a massive conspiracy involving the television networks, camera crews, on-scene reporters, firemen, police, WTC survivors, bystanders, airlines, airports, air traffic controllers, and the FAA, where they all decided to fake plane crashes into the WTC and produce videos of fake planes, fake smoke, and fake fireballs. Do you guys get paid for this favor you did Israel? Out of nearly 400 posts in this thread, the vast majority of them -- well over 300 -- are not by me, wudidiz, or titorite; but most of those by us were in answer to your barrage of demands, misconstruances, and derision. The opening post contains the word "Mossad" a total of 5 times and, with all the posters in this thread, it is only mentioned a total of 5 more times -- all by you and only you, FL, and not until over the 20th post. The George Washington Bridge was never mentioned by anyone except you until now and I am the only other person to have used the word bridge in a posting. The words Israel/Israeli/Israelis appear in responses on this thread less than 30 times after the opening post and 8 of those 30 times (approx. 25% to 30%+) are in a post by me on Zim Shipping linking that company directly to the Israeli government as a major shareholder -- which you cared not at all to discuss as evidence, nor did any other planers. I mentioned extensive research on Art Students in-residence at the WTC leading up to 9/11. Again, neither you nor any planers cared at all to discuss that evidence with regard to explosives and the spy network of Israeli Art Students concerning 9/11. A bigger priority for you, apparently (besides targeting no-planers), was insisting that the ABC "Butter Plane" was like "Kosher" Physics. Ergo, I should be the one asking you how much you got paid for the sidetracking distraction-favors you did for Israel. In summary, FL, your wild accusations are ridiculous and you have no remote control evidence -- just speculations and hostile allegations against dissenters as if they're heretics and worse. Newsflash: Remote Control Totalitarianism is not The 9/11 Truth Movement -- just a repressive faction of it. You not only proved my point about plane believers hopscotching over anomalies, FL, you also proved my point that the entire 9/11 charade could itself be called a blooming Directed Energy-Weapon to defocus and haphazardly disperse our energy (especially the Patriotic sort) into the atmosphere but I'm not going to thank you for doing so. Edited for grammar, % estimate, and 3rd paragraph. ------- "They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
When the military plane flew into the South Tower there was a quite noticeable flash. Some have speculated that this was static electricity, others have said that it was just a reflection. I don't think it was either. It was in a direct line from the pod underneath the plane. The answer to how the planes were able to penetrate the outer steel beams of 1/4 inch thickness is that a path was opened up for the plane with a some sort of explosive device, possibly a missile just before it entered the building.
God is always good!
The Mossad agents that were arrested from the "moving company" were freed and then went straight to Israel. Once there they went on a television show and said that they were there to "document the event." Why the heck did we release them when they knew about 9/11 in advance and were happy it occurred according to eye witnesses? For all we know they could have been the very people who helped place the explosives in the towers, and if they weren't they probably knew the people who did it. It is time we alert all Americans that Israel has taken over this nation and it is high time that we take it back! God is always good!
I guess you didn't see the picture of the rappers that showed him holding a remote control with explosions in the towers behind him just after the planes hit them. This cover art picture was not made on 9/11/2001. It was made in May of 2001. God is always good!
The elite like to let their victims know ahead of time that of their impending doom, it is some sort of sick game they play with the peons they consider us as. Here is more evidence that 9/11 was planned by them and that remote control aircraft were used to hit the towers on 9/11. 911research.wtc7.net/wtc/info/popularculture.html On March 4, 2001, FOX TV aired an episode of The Lone Gunmen show named PILOT, in which a secret US government agency attempts to crash a Boeing 727 into one of the Twin Towers via remote control, and blame the attack on foreign powers. The episode aired in Australia on August 30, 2001. At the episode's climax, the jetliner's pilots realize that the plane has been commandeered as they approach the Twin Towers from the north, and manage to avert the crash at the last second by overriding a lock that is preventing them from regaining control of the aircraft from the autopilot. God is always good!
We have Alan Sabrosky, a Jew by birth saying that Israel did 9/11. Some may say so what? Well he is not just a Jew by birth is a former director of strategic studies at the Army War college. This guy knows warfare, he knows disinformation tactics, and further more, he claims he presented his findings to Generals and they were shocked and were outraged to come to the realization that Israel did 9/11. God is always good!
The military knows that Israel did 9/11 now. What will they do about it? God is always good!
It is time we alert all Americans that Israel has taken over this nation and it is high time that we take it back! Yes - Let us know who signed off on these eyewitnesses to this huge crime to be released to Israel. Who authorized this? Dov Zakhiem?? If you bothered reading this thread at all, you'd have seen the copious amount of evidence I provided to Cyni regarding remote controlled aircraft. You would have also seen the ample evidence I provided that Israel was involved, including FBI reports on the Israeli citizens they arrested in connection to 9/11 and the fact they were found with tons of explosives. Post 20 provides video evidence that remote control of airliners is quite possible and had already been achieved 14 years prior to 9/11, post 50 links to a large collection of FBI documents pertaining to Israeli involvement with 9/11, and post 158 which describes the truck bomb on King Street NYC and the arrest of Mossad agents, which is never reported by the press, along with the news reports of individuals arrested with tons of explosives near the George Washington Bridge, all of whom were Mossad agents. And of course, I've posted many posts concerning the inability of a human pilot to acheive the flight trajectory of Flight 77 into the Pentagon in a 757, and how a flight school washout would have had zero chance to perform the impossible. You and your pals have been hammering away on the improbable, illogical, and highly unlikely scenario where EVERYTHING was faked, the planes, the smoke, the fireballs, EVERYTHING. Such a scenario would HAVE to include the participation of ALL news networks, camera crews, witnesses, involved airlines and airports, FAA, and the entire population of NYC and surrounding areas, since at least a few of you are saying even the SMOKE PLUMES were faked. Every functioning human being in that area would have been able to look outside and see the smoke plumes, and witness with their own eyes what they were seeing on live television. So yes GL, you have been hammering away on a ridiculous fantasy that has NO basis in fact, logic, or reality. The vast majority of posts since you, wud, and titorite have been spraying this thread with that nonsense have involved factual rebuttals to your claims. Who authorized this? US State Department, Justice Department, and the White House. In case anyone missed this... The following link leads to a huge collection of material obtained via the Freedom of Information Act in relation to the Mossad agents arrested on 9/11/2001.
And here's more... Urban Moving Systems and Detained Israelis THE STRANGE STORY OF URBAN MOVING SYSTEMS All The Necessary Proofs - Israel Did 9/11
Just WOW. We would have never stood a chance of getting to the bottom of this with out the net. Thanks Thanks You're welcome Tom. There's a plethora of evidence out there, if one knows what to look for. The key words are "Urban Moving Systems". 9-11 was a NORAD test that went live. It's that simple. Ahmadinejad was right. The U.S. was behind the events of 9-11. ;)
"When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall, one by one." Edmund Burke
This was the name on the van which the "dancing Israelis" used. "When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall, one by one." Edmund Burke
Building #7 fell in its own footprint. A sure sign of a planned demolition.
"When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall, one by one." Edmund Burke
I know an old boy from Virginia (now deceased) whose son was assigned to the Happy Hooligans. This is from where I obtained the info I have. "When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall, one by one." Edmund Burke
The "dancing Israelis" indicates foreknowledge of the day's events. "When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall, one by one." Edmund Burke
This was the name on the van which the "dancing Israelis" used. And, it was actually a company formed as a cover for an Israeli spy operation whose owner, an Israeli citizen, fled to Israel after being interviewed by the FBI on 9/12/2001. Traitors within the US, along with the government of Israel, as well as other foreign interests. Not so difficult to connect the dots. It all points back to the Israleis as being the perps of 9-11, with connections to the U.S. gooberment. They did this to get the U.S. involved in their wars for the demise of the Islamic governments. Thus, we have more proof that the Israelis were behind 9-11. "When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall, one by one." Edmund Burke
ALL WTC buildings which collapsed "fell" into their own footprint. WTC7 actually fell at free fall speed, for which there is no other possible explanation other than controlled demolition. I hear the Neal Bush was in charge of security at the Twin Towers before they collapsed. We do know to whom he is related. ;) And, then there was the new owner of the Twin Towers, a guy named Silverstein, who had a double indemnity policy on the Towers in case of terrorist attack. "When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall, one by one." Edmund Burke
Those words apply more so to you Lurker rather than the people you seek to address... It is you that refuses to accept the reality of the situation preferring instead to nestle in close to the propaganda comforting your mind at night.... And that is a damn shame. Also, the only spam sprayer here is you.... anyone paying attention to our BS can clearly see that... I wish you wouldn't use disinformation tactics in your correspondences with me GL and and Wud...... because you are undeniably doing so. ____________________________________________________________ . . . The US government has declared civil war on itself. Its lust for war grew so great... Liberty before death. We run , we live, We fight again, till we win. We did not start this fight. We damn sure did not willingly pay our taxes to buy the bullets and drones that shall be used to kill us. We will correct the violations of this rogue nation....our rogue nation. We will fix this because nobody else can. You will work to help me help us all to fix this failure. After you're done educating yourself, Action!!!
Subliminal slip there, eh tit? You've posted nothing but doctored video, ridiculous claims with no basis in reality, and have steered this thread into a mudfest. Like I said, congratulations on that. I'm sure your masters are pleased. And, then there was the new owner of the Twin Towers, a guy named Silverstein, who had a double indemnity policy on the Towers in case of terrorist attack. You should view this video if you want to know all the details as to who was involved, and what companies served in their individual roles in regards to 9/11. It's a long video, but worth watching. Missing Links: The Definitive Truth On 9/11 - Full Documentary No their is nothing subliminal about it... I was referring to our conversation that goes no wheres. You just want to continue to be an asshole for the sake of it.... You can not stop and you can not consider other ideas and opinions.... not even as a thought exercise. Not for one moment not even in a half assed attempt.. A TEXT BOOK PROPAGANDA VICTIM. And since I have hung out with the likes of Lod and Christine I will direct you to either of them for confirmation of my shill status. ____________________________________________________________ . . . The US government has declared civil war on itself. Its lust for war grew so great... Liberty before death. We run , we live, We fight again, till we win. We did not start this fight. We damn sure did not willingly pay our taxes to buy the bullets and drones that shall be used to kill us. We will correct the violations of this rogue nation....our rogue nation. We will fix this because nobody else can. You will work to help me help us all to fix this failure. After you're done educating yourself, Action!!!
Who authorized this? FL: US State Department, Justice Department, and the White House. This is an example of evidentiary double standards that translate to pretty much any unsubstantiated assertion by planers being automatically deemed as admissable and nothing pertaining to no planes analysis. This is tangible, testable evidence in response to tom007's question, which FL's isn't: http://www.lostscribemedia.com/news/911-israels-masterpiece/ As an interesting aside, Rabbi Zakheim was featured prominently in the 1993 bombing of the WTC when his Tridata subsidiary was put in charge of the “investigation.” Emad Salem and Ahmad Ajaj were the FBI informants and Israeli moles that expedited the “arab-terrorist” narrative for the first attack on the WTC. Edited for spelling. ------- "They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
You have steered this thread into a mudfest and persist in doing so. From the beginning, No Planes researchers have substantially contributed to and compiled much of the evidence being parroted here on controlled demolition and Israeli involvement before people such as you, "Scholars", and eclectic professionals swooped down on it and confiscated it for yourselves as if its all the intellectual property of Planers only. Not so. The No Planes investigations do not threaten the controlled demolition aspect of 9/11 or evidence of Israeli involvement. It's your remote control theory that is shaky conjecture. Edited sentence 1. ------- "They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
Do you have reading comprehension issues? The question was who exactly was responsible for the release of those Mossad agents. Those agents never went before a judge of any type, and Zahheim had no influence on Justice Department decisions. If you bothered yourself with facts, it was actually Michael Chertoff who ordered those releases, reportedly on orders of the White House. I'm sure the State Department, in conjuction with Israeli demands, had their hands in it too. Why do you try to dismiss truthful info with bullshit, accusing the reporter of somehow posting disinfo, where it is becoming quite obvious that it is you and your little crew that are doing so? So ok, let's try to gather what it is you actually saying. Let's start with a simple question. Were there smoke plumes coming from the towers on the morning of 9/11/2001, YES or NO? Well perhaps you're just a drunk who likes to talk big, OR, you're an operative who has gained the trust of unsuspecting people.
Cyni... Short, to the point, honest and accurate. The government loves muddied waters. Not much real about that. I disagree. FL can do that. When he wants to. Pure bullshit. If anything, legitimate researchers would kick you out of a room if you persisted in disrupting their presentation. Funny how NONE of the Architects and Engineers for 9/11 Truth, Pilots for 9/11 Truth, or any of the other legitimate researchers such as Dr. Steven Jones endorses your "theory". In fact, it is widely known that the "no planes" theory is a totally un- scientific hoax designed to obscure, obfuscate, and obstruct any legitimate research into 9/11. Again, please answer the question. Were there smoke plumes coming from the towers on the morning of 9/11/2001, YES or NO? < crickets chirping > Again, please answer the question. Were there smoke plumes coming from the towers on the morning of 9/11/2001, YES or NO? Hoaxsters don't perform investigations, they perform hoaxes and then attempt to claim any real research into real events as their own in order to beef up their "standing". Name me even one researcher who pioneered legitimate research into the events of 9/11 who endorses the "no planes" theory. < crickets chirping > Again, please answer the question. Were there smoke plumes coming from the towers on the morning of 9/11/2001, YES or NO? Were there smoke plumes coming from the towers on the morning of 9/11/2001, YES or NO? I should wait to see if you ever get around to answering my queries of you on the insignificant amount of smoke damage at the Towers, for example, as well as the lack of significant impact on WTC 1 from the explosive debris and projectiles flying towards it from the demolishment of WTC 2 before I answer but yes, of course there is film in evidence that shows smoke plumes coming from the Towers on the morning of 9/11/2001. There is also observable, conflicting film-evidence of their trajectories, etc., from MSM sources as well as amateur film aired by the MSM. As you consider all such smoke formations as undisputable, prima facie evidence in itself of your 9/11 thesis, regardless of the contradictions, and consider technical Videography analysis a distractive and disruptive non-science, what's the point of your question? To once again declare any response as interference and sprayed propaganda to dominate and derail the thread? I haven't decided yet exactly how much of the Acts of War against America which we saw that day may have been designed offstage by the perps. Btw, this thread isn't a private presentation room for remote control agendists. If you want one like that, go make one of your own. ------- "They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
FL: US State Department, Justice Department, and the White House. This is an example of evidentiary double standards that translate to pretty much any unsubstatiated assertion by planers being automatically deemed as admissable and nothing pertaining to no planes analysis. This is tangible, testable evidence in response to tom007's question, which FL's isn't: http://www.lostscribemedia.com/news/911-israels-masterpiece/ After the towers fell, Michael Mukasey who played a critical role in sending the Mossad agents arrested on 9/11 to Israel, For anyone interested, Michael Chertoff served as head of the Criminal Division of the Department of Justice at the time this went on. Here's some info concerning how he released those Israeli spies, plus more. Michael Chertoff gets the Israeli spies released As far as Michael Mukasey, I can find no information that he had any role in the release of these Mossad agents, but he may well have had a part in terms of suppressing evidence in regards to indictments, who knows. But there is NO real "testable evidence" that he did, contrary to your claim otherwise. So GreyLmist, now that you've spammed and cut and pasted something you found in an attempt to refute what I posted, apparently not looking much further than the first thing you came across, have anything intelligent to add, such as an apology perhaps? BTW, did you notice that nothing within that page you linked mentions the "no planes" theory? Again you apparently have a reading comprehension problem, that, or you're just dodging the question. Were there smoke plumes coming from the WTC towers on the morning of 9/11/2001, YES or NO? Is it too hard for you to type either word? You are apparently a bullshitter with nothing of importance to say, who can't even answer a yes or no question with a yes or a no. Your fairytale has been exposed for what it is, and you continue to spam bullshit onto this thread, making the same disproven claims OVER and OVER and OVER. The entire sentient population of NYC and surrounding areas witnessed those smoke plumes, and a vast number witnessed the South Tower strike, witnessing the resultant fireballs, and/or the impact of the airliner itself. Any waking person in that area would have at minimum looked out their window to witness the smoke plumes, matching what they were seeing on live TV. YET, a critical part of your "theory" is that the smoke was faked, along with the fireballs. That is in conflict with what the majority of the population of NYC actually witnessed. Do you seriously believe what you write? Hey genius, the debris trajectory was not towards WTC 1, as can plainly be seen in many of the videos of the event. conflicting film-evidence of their trajectories This claim has been disproven repeatedly, using a panoramic collection of original videos starting from a position southwest of the WTC, proceeding clockwise to a position south of the WTC, shot from various angles and distances. ALL videos show that the smoke plume was travelling southeast, and the plane impacted the South Tower from the south. Any difficulty in depth perception is caused by varying distances from the observer to the WTC and the use of zoom lens. Hell, your pal titorite was trying to say there wasn't even a news helicopter in the air that morning, yet it can be clearly seen on a good number of different videos from different angles that it WAS there (northwest of the North Tower travelling northeast), and actual footage FROM that helicopter has been presented. So what's in this for you? A promotion, money, or a pat on the back from the "right" people? "Videography analysis" doesn't include the creation of false evidence by doctoring the video to support the conclusion. In other words, if you doctor the video and modify to make it look doctored, that's not "analysis", that's called falsification of evidence. Me. In conjunction with the early and continued research through the years on Art Students in-residence at the WTC, I also did research that indicated a mega- art heist as one element in suspect motivations; that the 9/11 Fund was mishandled for profiteering by the Red Cross and the United Way, etc., and that it was being allocated for legal representation of terrorist suspects like the Mossad group that was apprehended, incarcerated, and released. You provided no evidence to dismiss any involvement by Mukasey in the process of their release and deflectively ignored the info on Zakheim and Tridata re: the '93 WTC bombing investigations. You are all you've been accusing of others. ------- "They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Yeah, and I'm really Ron Paul. You provided no evidence to dismiss any involvement by Mukasey in the process of their release and deflectively ignored the info on Zakheim and Tridata re: the '93 WTC bombing investigations. You ARE good at spin though, well not really, but you try at least. I said nothing about Mukasey other than there's no "testable evidence", contrary to your claims. There is a WIDE range of reports which mention Chertoff as the person who effected the release of the Israelis apprehended on or after 9/11. All there is on Mukasey in regards to those Israelis is a passing reference that he played a hand in it. So what are you trying to say, that Chertoff was NOT involved? You are simply trying to refute my words where I said the Justice Department was involved in their release, and for that, you are obviously trying to cover for Chertoff. Are you an employee of his? As far as the 93 bombing, I have made no comment either way, since it has nothing to do with the Israeli spy release which is what you were responding to. Keep bumping this thread, you'll push those videos with evidence that the Mossad were involved with 9/11 off the screen in just a few more posts. I'm sure that's why you're bothering yourself with posting right now.
How paranoid delusional does that sound? MOst of us are texans.... Many of us have attended truth seeker meetings or visited the silver eagle or have in some other way meet up personally to hang out or participate in something. It is good to bump this thread... to remember... to keep the conversation going and remembering that the guilty are not only still free but are now invading nation after nation...... as important as this conversation is... it should not be an end point of activism.... All the same their was no plane at shanksville. their was no plane at the pentagon. And so it goes. The evidence speaks louder than miscalculated conclusions. 911 was done with a combination of the latest propaganda techniques , DEW, Conventional Ordinance on seven, and the complicity of a state run media. ____________________________________________________________ . . . The US government has declared civil war on itself. Its lust for war grew so great... Liberty before death. We run , we live, We fight again, till we win. We did not start this fight. We damn sure did not willingly pay our taxes to buy the bullets and drones that shall be used to kill us. We will correct the violations of this rogue nation....our rogue nation. We will fix this because nobody else can. You will work to help me help us all to fix this failure. After you're done educating yourself, Action!!!
But there WERE planes that hit the WTC towers. As far as Shanksville, it's debatable whether or not Flight 93 was shot down over it. It most certainly didn't crash there in one piece. My point in all this is that not only is the "no planes" theory a widely recognized hoax, it is easily disproven using actual evidence and a bit of logic. I simply question the motives of those posting it, after such actual evidence is given and logical questions are raised. This is especially true where it is not part of what constitutes prima facie evidence that 9/11 was a combination Israeli/US operation, covered up by a complicit media. You are so irrationally fanatical that you both demand input and slander if it's given. Anyone can websearch for more info on Mukasey and the Dancing Israelis, for instance, which you posture as if it's unattainable or doesn't implicate him at all. They can test its tangibility or not for themselves without a proclamation from you. It certainly doesn't exonerate Chertoff, so I see no logical basis for your objection to Mukasey's inclusion as a suspect as if it somehow threatens your Judiciary claim rather than possibly expanding and supporting it. Likewise with your rendering of the Zakheim and Tridata info re: '93 WTC investigation tampering as non-corroborative. Odd sayanim-like suppressions of evidence on your part but I'll keep Mukasey in mind as a suspect whether you like it or not.
------- "They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
What I posted was in response to your slandering of me with your accusation that I was giving out "unsubstantiated assertions" as opposed to your "tangible, testable evidence", which in reality doesn't exist other than in your head. Here's what you said in post 425 This is tangible, testable evidence in response to tom007's question, which FL's isn't: I made no such claim, where I simply responded to tom's question as to who I thought was involved with the release of those Israelis. Turns out I was quite right, since Chertoff is the one who did it, and he did work as the head of the Justice Department's Criminal Division. I'm sure the White House at minimum gave it's blessing, it's not something a person could do on his own, and later be promoted to Secretary of Homeland Security, and later be given TSA contracts for naked body scanners. Yes, as mentioned in some of the clips I've posted which DO indicate Mukasey as the judge who was in charge of the 9/11 victim's claims against the security firms involved with 9/11. He was involved in other aspects of post 9/11 events as well. Thing is, there is no evidence that he had anything to do with the release of those Israelis, except for a passing reference here and there that he had a hand in it. If you can find some REAL "verifiable and testable" evidence that he did, then post it. And like I said, I'm not saying he didn't, but he certainly wasn't the one who made it happen, Chertoff is the one who did, since he's the one who gave the order to do so. Lucrative contracts no doubt. And the things cause cancers. Sweet. Think I read something about important jews being able to bypass TSA security - giving them the same status in that respect as federal marshalls. Nice trick there, projecting your own evil deeds unto your victims. Now THAT is a typical sayanim-like tactic there slick. Did you even bother watching any of the videos I've posted? They completely contradict your claims as to who is protecting who. I haven't read that anywhere, do you have a link? I wouldn't doubt it though. No I don't and it may be bs. Who authorized this? FL: US State Department, Justice Department, and the White House. This is an example of evidentiary double standards that translate to pretty much any unsubstantiated assertion by planers being automatically deemed as admissable and nothing pertaining to no planes analysis. This is tangible, testable evidence in response to tom007's question, which FL's isn't: Oh and BTW, here's evidence the State Department was involved in the release of those spies... From What Did Israel Know in Advance of the 9/11 Attacks? You deny that military planes flew into towers despite eyewitnesses and pictures that clearly show it was not a commercial plane that hit the towers. You can continue to deny irrefutable evidence, but it just makes you look crazy. Those were not commercial planes that hit the towers, they were military planes.
God is always good!
My point in all this is that not only is the "no planes" theory a widely recognized hoax, it is easily disproven using actual evidence and a bit of logic. I simply question the motives of those posting it, after such actual evidence is given and logical questions are raised. This is especially true where it is not part of what constitutes prima facie evidence that 9/11 was a combination Israeli/US operation, covered up by a complicit media. I notice you do not touch the pentagon..... Was that part to flimsy? OK you can disbelieve that part of the government portion but the rest of the story I insist you believe. .................................................................................... You say : I simply question the motives of those posting it, after such actual evidence is given and logical questions are raised. ................................................................................... Maybe I should question you for questioning me. I mean I have no idea why you don't get it... maybe just like you have no idea why I don't get it. Que fucking bono.... Alot of assholes got to test alot of untested technology that day. ..... I am not yet convinced of holograph planes... mostly cause the idea of that has not been repeated.... TV fakery though... easy editing with real time alterations... fuck yeah .. done before during and it is better than ever today. IMaginary planes that only exist on paper and celluloid means no one can fight back because their is no one. Conventional ordinance used to mimic a crash, some fake plane parts scattered through out the city.. parts which do not match the alleged planes used. Pre staged actors and clips and boom we got ourselves a motavational false flag with over a 99.9% guaranteed success probability. Hell look how well this chris stevens bullshit is working... Killed over a BS anti muslim movie... for 9/11/12 Now we can justify more boots on the ground in Libya .... Propaganda is fucking evil..... learn every single aspect about it that you can as it is the first and last tool in the closet of evil fucker things. 911 has many many many nuances of propaganda.... Maybe it would help you to dissect that. For the life of me... THE WINGS CAN NOT TAKE THOSE STRESSE$S, THEY HAD NO LAND MARKS TO NAVIGATE BY, INTERCEPTORS WOULD OF DISREGARDED ORDERS AT SOME POINT, THE MASS AND MATTER OF THE WRECKAGE WOULD OF BEEN RECOVERABLE, THE FILM FOOTAGE THAT CAUGHT ALOT OF THOSE "CLEAR"ISH PICTURES WAS NOT HIGH SPEED SHUTTER STUFF!!!! AHHHHHHHH SO MANY FUCKING HOLES WHY IS THIS SO DIFFICULT TO GET?! ACCEPT THE PAIN PUKE IF YOU NEED TO AND GET THE FUCK OVER IT!!!! It is what it is. THE TV IS A TOTALLY COMPROMISED MEDIUM THE FACT THAT YOU FAIL TO FULLY GET THAT BOTHERS ME. The Net offers your only informative refuge... and even here you have the many tentacles of the NWO octopus withering their way into us.... fuck em. .. but can you think like them? The evidence is there and it has been presented to you already to no avail thanks to vile propo blinders. Maybe the motivational aspect will reach you... So you got these evil dicks that want to do this 911 shit for various reasons... some want money, some want justifications, some just want to test the latest toys of war and some just want a blood sacrifice for cult reasons...but they all agree to work together to make this happen.. and that means they will have to dupe others into helping them do this...some willingly others unwittingly.... Now this plan must work... this time.. their can be no mistakes... again... because this plan was tried once before and FAILED in 93...(imagine clinton being able to pick off where bush 1 left off... that was a close time frame but the buildings stood strong thanks to a refusal to follow orders and clinton did not get to play the part of a war president...instead a son would forfil that BS role) IN 2001 their could be no more mistakes. 1993 already shown that a re-evaluation of trust was needed because these out of touch whackos had no idea they could not trust the 93 FBI informant.... The Human factor. Humans tend to fuck things up.. the only way to assure a plan is to remove the human factor. TV makes shit up all the time... Fox NBC CBS ABC ... all liars and mental manipulators... agents of the state. You have so many buildings to judge perspectives.... so many flying objects to judge perspectives.... so many angles........so many things that do not fit an overlapping pattern but rather a mosaic of discord that is typical of a lie. The smoke comes from multiple directions : you refuse to see it saying trick of perspective The plane has multiple approach angles: You refuse to see it saying yet another trick of perspective The MPH does not add up ,the wake vortex is missing, the cell communications were impossible, the amount of wreckage was never equal that of the amount of lost material I MEAN FROM THE TOPS OF THE HIMALAYAS TO THE BOTTOMS OF THE OCEANS CRASHED PLANES ARE ALMOST ALWAYS PUT BACK TOGETHER.. but not these four planes..... infact the official stance is they evaporated and other such asinine bullshit. An eye witness can lie.... Later videos might be fake..... But the footage of that day is all you need. IF you know Ron Avery he still has my DVD of the days events.. Not sure if Artisan has anything on the copy I sent him... Older stuff before I learned newer stuff... I look at Von Klist with contempt because I know he spent just as many hours looking at this junk as I have.... He knows the truth... he just wont risk saying it.... may my neck be thicker. Point being is that if you can find footage someone recorded from the zero moment then you can see it all for yourself. IT IS NOT A TRICK OF PERSPECTIVE! I have seen you bust out some math but I suspect it was copy and paste and not original work.... I suspect this because you can follow clip by clip via the buildings, back rounds, flying objects, you can compare all this from clip to clip to clip and see the clear inconsistencies. One has but to compare. Then to accept. or deny choice is yours. ____________________________________________________________ . . . The US government has declared civil war on itself. Its lust for war grew so great... Liberty before death. We run , we live, We fight again, till we win. We did not start this fight. We damn sure did not willingly pay our taxes to buy the bullets and drones that shall be used to kill us. We will correct the violations of this rogue nation....our rogue nation. We will fix this because nobody else can. You will work to help me help us all to fix this failure. After you're done educating yourself, Action!!!
It was a military plane that hit the South Tower as pictures have proved.
God is always good!
I've been posting details of how impossible it would be for the towers to fall into their own footprints before you could even legally drive. I've also been posting WHY it would be impossible, and not just that aspect of it, but posted the entire timeline leading up the 9/11, including info on British and US troops assembled outside of Afghanistan ready to pounce on it, days BEFORE 9/11. I've posted how Unocal, a huge oil and natural gas company, had tried to acquire land in Afghanistan back in the late 90's in order to build a pipeline from its oil fields north of Afghanistan to the reach the coast of Pakistan. I've been doing this sort of thing on different forums since 2002, kid. Wake up, stop being so naive and gullible, and use a bit of common sense. Not millions of them. The plane has multiple approach angles: You refuse to see it saying yet another trick of perspective If you truly believe that, you need to go back to school. Try studying geometry and calculus. You might learn a few things. As I mentioned on previous posts, look at the direction of the smoke, it is ALWAYS blowing towards the southeast. The plane hits the south tower from the south on every video as well. Use the posted map as a reference, and try to follow the analysis I posted using that map. If you STILL believe what you state here, there are only several possibilities; A) You are REALLY stupid. Every single lucid person in NYC and surrounding areas could see that smoke that morning, matching what they were seeing on live TV if they were in their home or in a public place with a TV set. Others who were at work, in transit, or there as tourists could see the smoke plumes as well. Not ONE of them claim to have witnessed NO SMOKE PLUMES, contradicting what was broadcast on television, live or recorded. So for your "theory" to be true, 5 million or more people would have to be "in" on the conspiracy. The only person that is acting stupid is you former lurker... and thats sad...... You make your choice and you choose comfortable delusion ............ may the yoke rest heavy on you and may posterity forget your name.
____________________________________________________________ . . . The US government has declared civil war on itself. Its lust for war grew so great... Liberty before death. We run , we live, We fight again, till we win. We did not start this fight. We damn sure did not willingly pay our taxes to buy the bullets and drones that shall be used to kill us. We will correct the violations of this rogue nation....our rogue nation. We will fix this because nobody else can. You will work to help me help us all to fix this failure. After you're done educating yourself, Action!!!
Keep thinking you know everything punk, it'll come back and bite you when you least expect it. What's rather pathetic is that you actually appear to believe the bullshit you're posting. So, which experts did the govt call? Experts that are worthy of the title? I'd settle for one name.
This reminds me of another pro Israel shill I debated some years back. When I cited Ha'aretz (Israel's largest newspaper) as a source his only reply was, "Well, Ha'aretz is losing subscribers", as if this was some measure of the paper's veracity. And he didn't explain why the fact that all print media are shrinking because of the internet wouldn't also account for a loss of subscribers. I was supposed to assume that any loss of subscribers was the result of the paper disagreeing with him on that point of contention before he ever took exception to it! I'd be interested to see the documentation and numbers to help define the term "few". And just who does that type of analysis, anyway?
Thank you for the diagnosis, Doctor! (You won't cry foul at the use of the word "you" here, will you? And, I couldn't help but notice the absence of any medical school training as a qualifier to post #310. In the absence of formal training, just how does one accrue experience at diagnosing crackpots with such certainty? (family history perhaps?) Christine's husband certainly has the medical degree to make such a diagnosis. Would a differing opinion from a psychologist carry any weight, or would his background also come under attack? Also, the promise to stick by the "flying telephone poles" theory and a phony resume in support of it will be great, if it's notarized and filed with the district court as an amicus curiae brief. I'm quite certain that won't happen, because the court may commit the individual who puts such an affidavit on the docket for an(other) involuntary, 90 day mental health evaluation.... Otherwise, it would appear that any future complaint about a loss of civility and lack of credentials would be meaningless gibberish from a poster with a murky agenda and questionable mental health. As a matter of law an unsworn rebuttal to sworn testimony is presumed to be incorrect (or worse) and the courts take no cognizance of it. And for the life of me I can't imagine why we should, either. And life experience can be factored out now that we're all forbidden to offer any credentials in support of our posts! This thread is now for folks who are steam rollered equally flat and stupid!
What's rather pathetic is that you actually appear to believe the bullshit you're posting. And now I'm a know it all punk.... Whatever man. I don't know it all but I do know that I can measure where the buildings are in the the various foregrounds and backrounds in relation to the smoke directions and plane trajectories. When all this is looked at and measured and compared the evidence shows massive divergence rather than a clear agreed upon event. I do believe what I post... I have spent years moving into decades, doing my own leg work, researching more and more about 911 ..... And you call me the know it all punk...... Seems I can't hold a candle to what you know Former Lurker... What can be said? May all of your propaganda be of the upmost entertainment for you. ____________________________________________________________ . . . The US government has declared civil war on itself. Its lust for war grew so great... Liberty before death. We run , we live, We fight again, till we win. We did not start this fight. We damn sure did not willingly pay our taxes to buy the bullets and drones that shall be used to kill us. We will correct the violations of this rogue nation....our rogue nation. We will fix this because nobody else can. You will work to help me help us all to fix this failure. After you're done educating yourself, Action!!!
Facts are now propaganda? The no plane position is not a serious position because it is utter BS. No serious 9/11 researcher agrees with it, not one! You are not a serious 9/11 researcher, you are a disinfo agent or a delusional nut. Saying there was no planes that hit the towers is similar to someone else saying there was no gunshot wound to Trayvon Martin, it was all smoke and mirrors, he is probably still alive somewhere. You aren't very bright to keep trying to stir racist crap up and then try very pitifully to push a no plane theory on a site like this. God is always good!
Not ONE of them claim to have witnessed NO SMOKE PLUMES, contradicting what was broadcast on television, live or recorded. The no planers are obviously no brainers trying to smear the 9/11 truth movement. They have derailed this thread numerous times with their no plane BS. This reminds me of Judy Woods' crackpot theory that there were rays from space that hit the towers causing them to explode. People like Judy Woods are obviously paid disinfo agents. I firmly believe Alex Jones is also in that camp. Tit might not be paid though, he might just be dumb enough to believe such nonsense. God is always good!
The reputable Israeli daily Ha'aretz reported that by the last week of October 2001, some six weeks after the men had been detained, Deputy Secretary of State Richard Armitage and two unidentified "prominent New York congressmen" were lobbying heavily for their release. According to a source at ABC News close to the 20/20 report, high-profile criminal lawyer Alan Dershowitz also stepped in as a negotiator on behalf of the men to smooth out differences with the U.S. government. (Dershowitz declined to comment for this article.) And so, at the end of November 2001, for reasons that only noted they had been working in the country illegally as movers, in violation of their visas, the men were flown home to Israel. I didn't post about Mukasey to refute your vague statement, nor because I don't think the State Department or any others throughout guv departments were involved. I posted it because you had posted nothing specific at all and no planers moved to ask for supporting evidence. Further expanding on the research: Excerpts from: The Dancing Israelis on 9-11 Steven Noah Gordon, a lawyer for the five, told The New York Times that their behaviour may have been offensive, but said the behaviour was not criminal — "and they were being treated as if it was." The five have since been deported. U.S. officials have offered no explanation for the arrests, even to immigration judges. Last month, when the INS asked that bail be denied to 11 of the Israelis, a judge rejected the request, saying the government had been less than forthcoming with evidence. Although the [INS] alleges that these cases are 'special,' it has failed to present any credible evidence of the basis for this finding," Judge Elizabeth Hacker wrote. "The service has failed to submit any evidence of terrorist activity or of a threat to national security." - The Globe & Mail [Wayback] The five were ordered deported Sept. 25 by an immigration judge after they acknowledged working here illegally. The Immigration and Naturalization Service would normally move expeditiously to deport them, but they have been caught up in the Bush administration’s effort to nab anyone even remotely connected with the terror attacks. The five Israelis were held at the Metropolitan Detention Center in Brooklyn, ostensibly for overstaying their tourist visas and working in the United States illegally. Two weeks after their arrest, an immigration judge ordered them to be deported. But sources told ABCNEWS that FBI and CIA officials in Washington put a hold on the case. Both the lawyers for the young men and the Israeli Embassy chalk it up to immature conduct. You might want to retract your assertion now that they bypassed judges in their release. ------- "They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
Dov Zakheim, another infamous name associated with 9-11. "When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall, one by one." Edmund Burke
None of them went in front of a judge in relation to their roles in 9/11, espionage, and violations of various laws such as possession of explosives (reportedly tons) packed in one of those white vans, along with actually BLOWING UP a van on King Street in NYC which had been painted with a mural depicting an airliner crashing into the WTC. So that's what I was talking about, not whether their visas had expired or they jaywalked somewhere. Mukasey was not an Immigration judge, and it is he you were saying was the one who freed those Israelis. So that's what I was talking about, not whether their visas had expired or they jaywalked somewhere. Mukasey was not an Immigration judge, and it is he you were saying was the one who freed those Israelis. No, you are misconstruing again. I posted info at #425 which stated that Mukasey played a critical role in sending the Mossad agents arrested on 9/11 to Israel, not the critical role as if he did it himself. At #427, you said: "Those agents never went before a judge of any type," and your evidence for that is still zero. At #444, you assert unsourced: "There is a WIDE range of reports which mention Chertoff as the person who effected the release of the Israelis apprehended on or after 9/11."; as if the wide range of reports which mention Mukasey-involvement don't count or somehow need more evidence than the zilch you presented on the subject -- and that was the point of my initial post on the matter in the first place: to show the evidentiary double standard that is expected to be higher for No Planes posters than for Planers. Thanks for proving my point again. Additionally, although Judge Hacker (who commented in the above referenced article) is an Immigration judge, she isn't even of the New York jurisdiction. There were many more Israeli suspects, besides the 5 Dancing Israelis in New York, who were also arrested and incarcerated then in other states as well. Some of the suspects were being held on Immigration charges but that wasn't what they were all being held for only, even if the Dancing Israelis were eventually deported for Immigration violations. iirc, some were stopped around Chicago with a map of the Sears Tower, etc.) The 5 Dancing Israelis were being held in the Metropolitan Detention Center in Brooklyn, which is a Federal Prison facility. It serves both the Eastern and the Southern U.S. District Courts of New York and Mukasey was a judge of the United States District Court for the Southern District of New York at the time (term: 1987-2006). Also: Hellerstein (term: 1998-2011). More on Hellerstein, Mukasey, and Chertoff in another post but first a bit more on Mukasey: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Mukasey More on the 9/11 Dancing Israelis and others: LEST WE FORGET–Dozens of Israeli Jews Being Kept in Federal Detention « The Ugly Truth ”We think there are about 50 in detention now, in San Diego, Houston, Kansas City, St. Louis and Cleveland, and there are some who have been released,” said Ido Aharoni, a spokesman for the Israeli consulate in New York. ”It’s not easy to get an exact count. Who Destroyed the WTC? (Connect the dots) -- Memorial Day, 2008 Edited paragraph 1 + spelling and spacing. ------- "They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
From: Michael Mukasey - Wikipedia Pic: President George W. Bush listens to remarks by Judge Michael Mukasey after announcing his nomination to be Attorney General. From: Urban Moving Systems: the US-Israeli 9/11 Financial Nexus Chertoff’s synagogue buddy, Michael Bernard Mukasey - an Orthodox Jew, was appointed by Bush as US Attorney General in 2007. [sic] take the 5 Israelis who were investigated by the FBI for their role in the 9-11 travesty but were allowed to return to Israel in late 2001. It was Michael Chertoff, then head of the US Justice Department’s criminal division & Talmudic Jew - Michael Mukasey, then Federal District Chief judge for New York in Manhattan, who gave the order...OBSTRUCTION OF JUSTICE BY ZIONIST JEWS [sic] The FBI had come under intense pressure from several congressmen and various pro-Israel groups to release the Israelis. The order to free them came from Michael Chertoff & Judge Michael Mukasey. An FBI investigator noted, “Leads were not fully investigated” due to pressure from “higher echelons.” [sic] The FBI had come under intense pressure from several congressmen and various pro- Israel groups to release the Israelis. The order to free them came from Michael Chertoff & Judge Michael Mukasey. An FBI investigator noted, “Leads were not fully investigated” due to pressure from “higher echelons.” [sic] In the days after the attacks, Mukasey worked behind closed doors seeing some of the first material witnesses detained by Federal authorities. These would have included the “five dancing Israelis” From: 9- 11: Israel’s Masterpiece - Lost Scribe Media Michael Mukasey along with Michael Chertoff, both key suspects in the 9/11 cover-up, also worked hand and glove in the first false flag bombing of the WTC in 1993. [My note: See also prior info posted earlier on Zakheim and Tridata, a subsidiary of his SPC/Systems Planning Corporation re: WTC '93 investigation tampering.] Chertoff was the lead prosecutor and Mukasey was the judge presiding over the fraudulent trial of the “Blind Sheikh”, Omar Abdel Rahman in the aftermath of the false flag bombing at WTC in 1993. The “Blind Sheikh” at the beginning of the trial asked Mukasey to remove himself from the trial given his severe bias towards the state of Israel. Mukasey, who had not permitted the “blind sheikh” the services of his choice of attorney and who also prevented the “blind sheikh” from his due process denying him the right to have an expert witness explain Islam to the ignorant jury, curtly refused this motion from the defendant. After his sentencing, the “Blind Sheikh”, among other anomalies and inconsistencies of the prosecution’s case, patiently explained that it was impossible for him to form a terrorist group while being incarcerated thousands of miles away during its creation. He was repeatedly and rudely interrupted by an irate and indignant Mukasey as the sheikh painstakingly debunked the fraudulent proceedings of the trial. In the 9/11 attacks Mukasey’s role was multifaceted. He oversaw the detained witnesses and suspects including the 5 dancing Israeli Mossad agents at the behest of then Assistant Attorney General at the Department of Justice, Michael Chertoff, the son of a founding member of the Mossad. Edited to add a link for Zakheim info at Post #425. ------- "They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
BTP Holdings: Dov Zakheim, another infamous name associated with 9-11. Excerpt from: www.goodnewsaboutgod.com/studies/political/newworld_order/real_path.htm ------- "They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
Edited to add a link for Zakheim info at Post #425. ------- Appears we at 4um have far better investigative skills than the FBI and the New York Times and CBS. Funny that? Michael Chertoff - Wikipedia under Attorney General John Ashcroft. Chertoff Denies Knowing Who Authorized Destruction of 9-11 Steel -- Christopher Bollyn | March 9, 2011 Chertoff responded the same day: No. No idea. Other questions unanswered: Why did President Bush and Attorney General Ashcroft allow Mayor Giuliani to “take over the cleanup operation”? ------- "They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
Funny that? I can't say as it's funny so much as disconcerting. ------- "They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
I'm not saying, nor I have I said, that Mukasey did not have a hand in the release of those Mossad agents. I have said that there isn't much info on what role he played, if any.. If you check your source of the info you posted, there is no reference to where the author obtained his info, other than from other blogs and forums. Your reference is in fact the Prison Planet forum, where anyone can write anything they want. The quote from your post above comes from a blog called "lostscribemedia", which although does contain some verifiable data, also contains info which is unsourced. Regardless of Mukasey's role, neither he nor Chertoff could have effected their release on their own, they had to have higher authorization to do so. In other words, the ultimate decision would had have to been made at the top, being GW Bush, Dick Cheney, and Cabinet level individuals. If the release was unauthorized by higher authority, neither Mukasey nor Chertoff would have been promoted to higher positions, yet they both were, with Chertoff being promoted to Secretary of Homeland Security, and Mukasey being promoted to US Attorney General under Bush. And if we check your alleged wide range of report sources on Chertoff...oops. They aren't here. How many times do you want to prove my point about evidentiary double standards? Give it a rest so we can agree without backtracking that the release had to be authorized by Ashcroft, other Cabinet level persons, and higher. Btw, I reviewed the smoke trajectory issue again with some thought on your perspective, as I said I would, and that just doesn't explain the smoke going in opposite directions but Media Fakery does. Edited last sentence of paragraph 1. ------- "They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
So ok, details are sketchy on BOTH Chertoff's and Mukasey's role in the release of those Israelis. What started out as a quick response from me to tom007, one which was as accurate as can be logically determined, has ended up being a full blown pissing contest over something that really doesn't prove one thing or another, other than there are unsourced reports floating around which point the finger to both individuals. You are the one who started pointing fingers at ME, for not being detailed enough. What it comes to is that you've been nitpicking and pouncing on me over things which neither you nor I can actually say is definitive proof, yet, you act like you are the master of all that is true, even though you can't admit that you are full of it in terms of which direction the smoke was blowing from the WTC towers on the morning of 9/11/2001, even with clear evidence that ALL original videos show the smoke moving to the southeast. Or are you ALSO claiming that there were NO smoke plumes that morning? Sheesh, one might almost think that you're here to waste people's time and drive them away from any REAL facts. And BTW genius, nowhere have I said that "perspective" had anything to do with the direction of the smoke. I said it was difficult to determine DISTANCE of foreground and background objects in relation to each other due to the distance of the observer to the WTC and the amount of zoom applied. There is NO question as to the direction of the smoke plumes in ANY of the videos posted, except for the doctored video you and titorite posted where it is clear the video has been edited to eliminate the smoke plume then overlay the smoke in a progressive step enlargement, and then claim that is "evidence" of ALL videos of the WTC to be fake. Yeah it was doctored alright, by the person who edited it then claimed it was doctored. Same to you, FL. ------- "They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
Yes, there is, and the comparisons were MSM clips. ------- "They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
Nothing like beating a dead horse, eh? I have proven to you repeatedly that you are wrong. You have NOT been able to refute the evidence I cited, and like any common shillster, claim victory after you've lost the argument. Again, point out even ONE LEGITIMATE ORIGINAL clip where the smoke is NOT travelling southeast. By legitimate, I mean one which has not been doctored to prove it was doctored. You have made it your mission in life to discredit anything I post. I've been posting on this forum, LP, and FreeRepublic, over the course of 14 years or so. I've posted on topics such as TWA800, OKC, Waco, RubyRidge, 9/11, the Iraq war, amongst other things. In all cases I've provided factual and scientific evidence and analysis showing how the government stories are false. I at times give my opinion, and sometimes I make mistakes as does anyone, but if I make a factual error I admit it as such and correct it. Yet you hammer on me personally as if I were posting fraudulent info, all the while posting fraudulent videos yourself, mixed in with a tad bit of truth, just as some people claim Alex Jones does, amongst others. You are really making me think you are getting rewarded for your efforts. Bullshit. You can't even admit the film in front of you has two different images instead insisting that the explanation for the different images is just illusions of perspectives... That is total bullshit. But so what. You have your opinion and we have ours ..... Denouncing no planers as the enemy just makes more enemies. And it looks as though that is your intent, to create as many adversaries as possible for yourself. Also you have completely failed to show an understanding of the dynamics of flight..... I mean after all this time , over ten years, you did not know about the wake vortex effect of planes....and thats all planes not just jets. I knew about the primary and secondary radar systems... the spam of info you provided earlier shown little different information then when I first began researching... then again it came from .gov sources.... Why would you quote .gov sources as authoritative when regarding 911.... thats like asking the fox if the hens are safe. Mind blowing... here we are supposed to be opposing the government line and here you are quoting it for arguments sake. Bad form .... but then again your form has suffered all over this thread. ____________________________________________________________ . . . The US government has declared civil war on itself. Its lust for war grew so great... Liberty before death. We run , we live, We fight again, till we win. We did not start this fight. We damn sure did not willingly pay our taxes to buy the bullets and drones that shall be used to kill us. We will correct the violations of this rogue nation....our rogue nation. We will fix this because nobody else can. You will work to help me help us all to fix this failure. After you're done educating yourself, Action!!!
You can't even specify WHICH video you are talking about. Do you mean the fraudulent video you posted which was doctored to make it look doctored? Like I've said more times than I should need to, ALL legitimate videos indicate the smoke plumes were traveling southeast. As far as your idiotic "vortex" BS, you would only see that with smoke generators on the wing tips, or if the plane were to travel through a puff of smoke, neither of which occured on 9/11. What your lunatic behavior has accomplished is that you've alienated more than a few I would imagine, both from reading anything EITHER of us post, AND from reading anything concerning 9/11 "truth", since it's apparent there are some REAL fucking wackjobs claiming to be "truthers". To a person with limited time, there are more important things to be doing. Oh and as far as the radar info I posted it was to educate those unfamiliar with the important aspects concerning the 9/11 data. You couldn't tell me the difference between primary and secondary, even with the data posted in plain view. NOW you say you know the difference. Ok, so what IS the difference, just to demontrate that you DO actually know which one is which, and what each one is used for, and how it needs to be considered when evaluating the 9/11 data? I've delt with people such of the both of you in my past. They've used names such as BeAChooser, yukon, ByteShredder, TomB, sinkspur, and a whole bunch of others. The more you post, the more I see the similarity in your tactics. The more you post, the more I see the similarity in your tactics. Bullshit. Former YOU are the one arguing from the playbook of the tactics of disinformation to wage your debate. At the end of the day it is still your mind flowing along the paths that have been selected for you. Also Yukon never did shit but suck dick so fuck you for comparing him to us or better yet go fuck yukon. ;) And another thing.. you have plenty of time on your hands former... you are either disabled, retired, or a child. Which is it? ____________________________________________________________ . . . The US government has declared civil war on itself. Its lust for war grew so great... Liberty before death. We run , we live, We fight again, till we win. We did not start this fight. We damn sure did not willingly pay our taxes to buy the bullets and drones that shall be used to kill us. We will correct the violations of this rogue nation....our rogue nation. We will fix this because nobody else can. You will work to help me help us all to fix this failure. After you're done educating yourself, Action!!!
I could tell you the difference....Their was no need though since you copied and pasted web page after web page with nary a glance at the BS you were posting and obviously no thought about your sources...regardless I and everyone here could read them... Although I would bet the only people reading this shit now is just us three or four. Still, it is hypocritical to argue against government conspiracy in favour of your own pet theory with government sources as your citations of evidence. But whatever it's your phoney strawman argument. Your disinformation tactics. IT IS ALL THAT YOU ARE DOING NOW and it is obvious. When you dip into that pool you sully yourself. Fuck you. ____________________________________________________________ . . . The US government has declared civil war on itself. Its lust for war grew so great... Liberty before death. We run , we live, We fight again, till we win. We did not start this fight. We damn sure did not willingly pay our taxes to buy the bullets and drones that shall be used to kill us. We will correct the violations of this rogue nation....our rogue nation. We will fix this because nobody else can. You will work to help me help us all to fix this failure. After you're done educating yourself, Action!!!
RIIIIIIIGHT... I guess the crash magically negated the wake. Why not? ____________________________________________________________ . . . The US government has declared civil war on itself. Its lust for war grew so great... Liberty before death. We run , we live, We fight again, till we win. We did not start this fight. We damn sure did not willingly pay our taxes to buy the bullets and drones that shall be used to kill us. We will correct the violations of this rogue nation....our rogue nation. We will fix this because nobody else can. You will work to help me help us all to fix this failure. After you're done educating yourself, Action!!!
You still can't do anything except spew obscenities and make accusations. You STILL can't tell me what the difference is between primary and secondary radar, and how it relates to the 9/11 radar data. And you STILL can't refute the video evidence that ALL smoke plumes travelled southeast from the WTC North Tower prior to the impact of the 2nd plane. Then you turn around and say I'M the one using disinfo tactics. A big FU back to you slick. It is only you saying that. You won't see a "wake" if there is no smoke to cause a wake to be seen. You can't see air, and no matter how hard you stomp your feet, that is a fact. Yes . It is conclusion that demands a response. And that's where the disconserting part comes in. You obviously do not understand..... Let me make it simpler. In a boat the wake follows it. I'll assume you have seen a boat and its wake. Now if that boat crashes ashore at high speed, it's wake does not magically vanish simply because it crashed ashore.... The water wake will continue to lap onto land. Waves floating outward into dissipation.... The wake has to expend it's energy and does not come to such an abrupt stop as the thing that made it. All planes make a wake just like all boats make a wake.It is Not Smoke that causes the wake. It is the flow of air over the wings .... Just because a plane crashes into a building does not magically negate the wake. ... The explosions in both towers and at the pentagon should have all swirled in the wake vortex till the vortex effect dissipated. The fact that their is a no discernible wake vortex is one of the many inconsistencies of 911... One of the most galling. Most obvious mistakes. IN later releases of the alleged events the explosion shape might chage along with peoples resolution...... Did you ever notice that and question it? That day the news media had some shitty resolution on the cameras... years go by home amateurs occasionally release vids and their copies always seem to be clearer and of higher resolution.... funny that. Oh and your primary secondary radar bullshit is just straw man tactics... I know the difference.You just repeating over and over and over that I do not know the difference.... well that is just you trying to take attention away from what some of us are trying say and attempting to direct to other topics that are not related to a lack of planes. You'll even spam the fuck out of this thread to knock our words off the page. It is completely ridiculous. Repeating the lie 1,000 will never turn the lie into truth. George Bush told you to never tolerate outrageous conspiracy theories. When one has ruled out every other possibility, what ever you are left with, no matter how improbable is the truth. ____________________________________________________________ . . . The US government has declared civil war on itself. Its lust for war grew so great... Liberty before death. We run , we live, We fight again, till we win. We did not start this fight. We damn sure did not willingly pay our taxes to buy the bullets and drones that shall be used to kill us. We will correct the violations of this rogue nation....our rogue nation. We will fix this because nobody else can. You will work to help me help us all to fix this failure. After you're done educating yourself, Action!!!
Osama bin Laden was a patsy in 9-11. ;)
"When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall, one by one." Edmund Burke
ON this I think we can all agree. ____________________________________________________________ . . . The US government has declared civil war on itself. Its lust for war grew so great... Liberty before death. We run , we live, We fight again, till we win. We did not start this fight. We damn sure did not willingly pay our taxes to buy the bullets and drones that shall be used to kill us. We will correct the violations of this rogue nation....our rogue nation. We will fix this because nobody else can. You will work to help me help us all to fix this failure. After you're done educating yourself, Action!!!
Yes and I wanted to be Mr 500.
What do you not understand about not being able to see air? You are claiming that planes leave visible wakes in the air just like boats do in water. Do you really believe that? Have you never seen planes before? As far as the difference between primary and secondary radar, are you admitting that you can't briefly explain the difference nor why it mattters in regards to the 9/11 radar data? As far as the difference between primary and secondary radar, are you admitting that you can't briefly explain the difference nor why it mattters in regards to the 9/11 radar data? I dislike the whole radar thing because the data data has changed over the years.... the information updated and redacted and altered.... I mean that was a pin point teeny tiny hole you showed in your radar pick several several posts back.... One that did not exists in 9/12/01 Meh.... Perhaps it would be better if I just say you know more about it than I do. I can say ok and you can say ok and we can drop the matter as you knowing more about that particular aspect of this event. Fair enough? Now then The wake vortex effect is present regardless of the smoke. It is an effect of the movement of air over and under the wing of a plane. When the slower and faster moving air meet on the other side of the wing the two currents make lift and vortex. It doesn't matter if it is a prop plane or a jet. The movement of the air over and under the wing makes the effect. You can see the wake vortex effect on Formula F1 racing cars too. Off their spoiler wings. It is not as dramatic or long lasting as an air plane wake. It follows the plane regardless.... It can drag cars ... their air videos on youtube of cars parking too close to runways... planes land fine , no visible smoke to observe but lots and lots of wind.... enough to tumble a taxi cab over and over.... the wake vortex. IT is a very physical after/side effect of air movement over and under a wing. IF you can not observe it then nothing is their to cause it.....In all of the explosions and the resulting smoke aftewards ... fire should of swirled and smoke should of swirled, all that paper confetti we saw falling from the sky probable should of swirled ...... after impact it would of been like a horizontal tornado for about five minutes or so with the worst turbulence proly being in the first few minutes after impact .... IF it is not observable in the original footage then nothing was there to cause it. ____________________________________________________________ . . . The US government has declared civil war on itself. Its lust for war grew so great... Liberty before death. We run , we live, We fight again, till we win. We did not start this fight. We damn sure did not willingly pay our taxes to buy the bullets and drones that shall be used to kill us. We will correct the violations of this rogue nation....our rogue nation. We will fix this because nobody else can. You will work to help me help us all to fix this failure. After you're done educating yourself, Action!!!
IT is a very physical after/side effect of air movement over and under a wing. It's obvious you've never seen a plane fly, were never at an airport, and have never looked up the matter in any seriousness. I was stationed at a Marine Corp Air Station and saw jets take off and land each day, besides having flown quite often myself. Not once have I ever seen a "wake", except for the hot engine exhaust of a jet when taxiing or taking off. But no, there IS no visible "vortex", even though one may exist, UNLESS there are smoke generators on the wing tips or the plane is passing through smoke. Even clouds don't display that behavior, as I've never seen visibile wakes from planes passing in and out of clouds. In other words, you are chasing a red herring, and basing your argument upon it. As far as the difference between primary and secondary radar, you still haven't been able to tell me what it is.
The vortex is created by the rush of air over and under the wings as it flies. It's not creating a "tornado" which follows it, it's creating a spiraling draft of air behind it. Only the air behind the craft is affected, so no, you won't have a "horizontal tornado" at the WTC for five minutes, five seconds, or even one second. you hammer on me personally You are really making me think you are getting rewarded for your efforts. Backatcha, FL. What fraudulent video are you complaining about? I explained to you that the media altered a video to promote war in Iraq. Did you forget that? ------- "They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
You are claiming not just that a video was altered, you're saying ALL video from NYC was altered real time on the morning of 9/11, and that millions of people didn't really see what they saw. The one specific video I was referring to earlier is the one your expert "analyzed" and determined it was doctored, AFTER he doctored the video himself to make it look doctored. I don't know what you're talking about. Do you? ------- "They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
I don't know what you're talking about. Do you? My how soon you forget. This one, which you posted back in post 373. How disingenuous of you. Anyone that clicks the link to post 373 will easily be able trace that shit back to 350 where I posted the link but was having trouble embedding. GeryLmist helped me with that in 373. Former Lurker is arguing by those god damned 25 tactics of disinformation. I wish you wouldn't. Since you do it is kind of a waste.... your defending invalid positions with bullshit for the sake of being right in your own mind not just about the small stuff but about broad general stuff like what I and others think or believe... you make up or invent conclusions for us , assume incorrect ideas then proclaim them to all as if your pronouncement meant a hill of beans, you post on this matter with such trollish assinine ass hattery .... I lack the words man... All I can say is that I don't think your any kind of shill... I know you're real. I don't think you stupid... thats obviously not the case... I don;t think you a nut ball... you are not crazy nor delusional(well not completely) , I think you are the mere victim of propaganda. An interesting subject who got exposed to TOO MUCH NLP over the course of that day...You act like an uncomprehending brat that knows how to obey but simply refuses to because they don't know any better.... Fucked up man. ____________________________________________________________ . . . The US government has declared civil war on itself. Its lust for war grew so great... Liberty before death. We run , we live, We fight again, till we win. We did not start this fight. We damn sure did not willingly pay our taxes to buy the bullets and drones that shall be used to kill us. We will correct the violations of this rogue nation....our rogue nation. We will fix this because nobody else can. You will work to help me help us all to fix this failure. After you're done educating yourself, Action!!!
Only the air behind the craft is affected, so no, you won't have a "horizontal tornado" at the WTC for five minutes, five seconds, or even one second. Your argument is invalid http://youtu.be/eblVIpdb1z8 The speed of ones deceleration matters greatly. Your knowledge on the subject could use improvement. http://youtu.be/eyHg2g4wbG4 Enjoy! ____________________________________________________________ . . . The US government has declared civil war on itself. Its lust for war grew so great... Liberty before death. We run , we live, We fight again, till we win. We did not start this fight. We damn sure did not willingly pay our taxes to buy the bullets and drones that shall be used to kill us. We will correct the violations of this rogue nation....our rogue nation. We will fix this because nobody else can. You will work to help me help us all to fix this failure. After you're done educating yourself, Action!!!
GreyLmist: #506. To: FormerLurker (#486) FL: #507. To: GreyLmist (#506) GreyLmist: #508. To: FormerLurker (#507) FL: #509. To: GreyLmist (#508) I didn't forget. You did and are making much ado about nothing. At #486, you accused me of posting fraudulent videos plural. As for the video you posted at #509, you ignored the explanations of media-alteration that I gave you at #373 and again at #506, then accused titorite at #507 of doctoring the video you were complaining about at #486, where you had accused me of posting fraudulent videos. Hence, my query at #508 asking if you knew what you were talking about. This is the 3rd time now that you are being informed: the referenced video [9-11 TV Fakery Smoke & Mirrors (short version)] was altered by the media to promote War in Iraq. It was not doctored by titorite and it was not a fraudulent trickery-post by me. Clearly, you weren't paying attention or you should know that. This is the sequence of posts in question: titorite: #350. To: FormerLurker (#343) www.youtube.com- watchv=DkzfKRe0gbc -- YouTube title: 9-11 TV Fakery Smoke & Mirrors (short version) titorite: #351. To: All (#350) www.youtube.com/watch?v=NnhDqOJh_28 -- YouTube title: WTC No Plane Truth (Part 17) titorite: #353. To: All (#351) www.youtube.com/watch? v=NnhDqOJh_28 -- YouTube title: WTC No Plane Truth (Part 17) In response to his request, I posted it for him at #364. FL: #358. To: titorite, RickyJ, ALL, *9-11* (#353) That video was obviously manipulated and edited, by people such as you or your friends. The original, live video does not show such manipulation. YOU are the one posting fraudulent video there slick. RickyJ: #366. To: FormerLurker (#358) I am not surprised. It is obviously a way to try make 9/11 truthers look crazy to say there was no planes when there is no real evidence that is the case. Many no planners note how hard it would be for an aluminum plane to break through the steel beams surrounding the WTC towers. What they aren't considering though is that this was no ordinary plane that hit the towers. IMO it was made specifically for hitting the towers. Possibly even had a missile underneath it to clear a path for it just before it hit the building. At #373, I posted the video in question and thought this explanation would rectify your wrongful assessment and Ricky's misunderstanding of the situation because of it: [Video was then posted by me for clarification of the link in question: www.youtube.com-watchv=DkzfKRe0gbc -- YouTube title: 9-11 TV Fakery Smoke & Mirrors (short version). Edit to add: Also posted embed steps for titorite.] Reference the series of posts in the quoted section above for my 2nd attempt at explaining to you that the video was altered by the media, which you ignored again, then accused titorite of doctoring it to make it look doctored. If you still don't understand after this 3rd attempt, that would be like strike 3 and you're out but don't try to blame me or titorite or No Planers for it. Ask yourself how it might not reflect well on your faction if you refuse this time to "get it" or continue to stir up a needless ruckus about it. Edited for grammar and highlighted addition in brackets above the last paragraph. ------- "They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
An excellent reprise of important transactions in this argument. Note that the writer didn't see the need to call anyone a "punk" or an "asshole" in his summary. Thanks, randge. It could have been shorter if FL's post #358 on the smoke anomaly link had been in response to titorite's post #350 where he put it. Instead, FL's reply about that was made at his 2nd posting of the link for analysis of plane trajectories in MSM newsclips at #353. Oy, as the exasperated saying goes in Yiddish. Edited to add post # notation in next to last sentence. ------- "They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
Noted. Good job on posting videos, titorite. ------- "They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
You posted that vid as a shining example of your "theory". Yet, that video is fraudulent. You posted it and didn't even bother looking at it? Again you are ignoring one major glaring fact. The wake turbulance you cite is formed BEHIND the aircraft, and is NOT visible. You are trying to claim that a "horizontal tornado" should have been twirling at the WTC for five minutes. That is outright insanity. Sure there is turbulance BEHIND the aircraft as it flies, but for the umpteenth time, it is NOT visible, and once the flight is terminated by a crash into a solid object, ceases to be formed. You know if I wanted to collect all the profanity and obscenity uttered on this thread, it would show that 99% of it comes from titorite. Would a 15+ paragraph post with links and references help do you think? Pure crap. That video first showed up in 2004 (judging from the comments to that video on YouTube), and was more than likely created by a "no planer" to make his case. Not even ONE of the live videos from 9/11 display any of the manipulation visible in that video, so it is quite obvious that whoever created that video did it with the intent of deceiving his audience into thinking it was an example of media manipulation of the live video, where in reality it is the person himself who doctored it, or fabricated it out of whole cloth since there IS no live video from that day which displays any similarities to that video. That video was released sometime in 2004. The Iraq War was launched in 2003. So much for your cover story. In terms of needing video to show an audience to beat the war drums, there was already plenty of it to show, they didn't need to create anything new, and they certainly didn't need to erase the smoke plume from original footage and reinsert it in an amateurish manner. As far as your other BS videos, find me an ORIGINAL video which shows the same characteristics. The panoramic collection I posted several times, the latest back in post 344, would be a good place to start. Care to point out anything odd about that collection of videos? You rely on "analyzed" video to "prove" your case, while not considering the VERY strong possibility that it is the analyzer himself adding those video oddities. Now GreyLmist and titorite, I want each of you to answer a VERY simple question with a YES or a NO answer, not with a five page collection of nonsense, but with a YES or a NO. Was there a smoke plume on the morning of 9/11/2001 pouring out of the WTC North Tower? Really? Your videos simply reiterate what I've already said, and certainly don't disprove anything I've stated. If you disagree, then cite the point in the video that you think proves differently. Was there a smoke plume on the morning of 9/11/2001 pouring out of the WTC North Tower? Enough of your voluminous and redundant, bilious verbiage round and round and round. I've already answered your question at #437: What you think of that, the timeliness of the documentary in question, and whether that media manipulated propaganda was of any use in your opinion for beating the war drums means about nothing in their scheme of things. What your tedium ad nauseum does show is that nothing from us in these discussion gets through to you without being mangled. The next time you want to waste more time and space around here by repeating your quoted question like this is your personal Inquisition dungeon to torture "9/11 heretics" and readers, ask NIST and/or Internet Archive instead: Click here: http://archive.org/details/PBS-Center07 -- 8.5 sec. clip with audio of the PBS documentary. Full version at Internet Archive. The video posted here was an analysis of footage in it manipulated by the media. PBS-Center 07 (May 25, 2010) US Department of Commerce, NIST View Direction: north Edited 1st sentence of last paragraph + bracketed addition and punctuation in the quoted section re: #437. ------- "They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
Note that the writer didn't see the need to call anyone a "punk" or an "asshole" in his summary. The lines of patience are much longer in Grey. ____________________________________________________________ . . . The US government has declared civil war on itself. Its lust for war grew so great... Liberty before death. We run , we live, We fight again, till we win. We did not start this fight. We damn sure did not willingly pay our taxes to buy the bullets and drones that shall be used to kill us. We will correct the violations of this rogue nation....our rogue nation. We will fix this because nobody else can. You will work to help me help us all to fix this failure. After you're done educating yourself, Action!!!
Thank you much.... and yeah wow... I have to agree with others.. that was some awe inspireing jaw dropping well spoken words of debate on your part.... I should have such long lines of patience :) ____________________________________________________________ . . . The US government has declared civil war on itself. Its lust for war grew so great... Liberty before death. We run , we live, We fight again, till we win. We did not start this fight. We damn sure did not willingly pay our taxes to buy the bullets and drones that shall be used to kill us. We will correct the violations of this rogue nation....our rogue nation. We will fix this because nobody else can. You will work to help me help us all to fix this failure. After you're done educating yourself, Action!!!
As far as your other BS videos, find me an ORIGINAL video which shows the same characteristics. The panoramic collection I posted several times, the latest back in post 344, would be a good place to start. Care to point out anything odd about that collection of videos? You rely on "analyzed" video to "prove" your case, while not considering the VERY strong possibility that it is the analyzer himself adding those video oddities. You were shown MSM newsclips of plane trajectory and smoke trajectory anomalies. From what I've seen of your "panoramic collection" video, it's largely not MSM stamped but what's your point as an analyzer of it? You made the smoke go in opposite directions in the first 2 1/2 minutes or whoever made the video did that or it's just being viewed wrong perspectivewise, according to you, if anyone thinks it anomalous or what? Btw, the profanely screeching woman in that video also said in the longer version words to the effect that they weren't under attack in their area, the WTC was. Odd thing to say, under the circumstances -- like foreknowledge of some sort. Edited for spelling. ------- "They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
I was getting low on patience at #525 but am in the process of trudging back in that direction. Such thoughtful posts from friendlies here are rather energizing in that way. Edited last sentence. ------- "They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
Again, you project your own faults onto others as ALL of your posts prove. You can NOT answer with a YES or a NO, you have to post page upon page of bullshit instead. You are posting videos doctored by "no planers", proving that the "no planers" doctored them. Uh huh. EIGHT SECONDS of video, which does NOT show what your doctored video "shows". This is an article from 2005 that I found today. Have just scanned through it quickly so far but it looks to be highly informative and corroborated with many linked references and pics:
------- "They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
Uh huh. Are you just plain nuts, retarded, or blind? Which is it? NONE of those video clips shows "smoke going in opposite directions". You are either a totaly inept idiot or a liar to the extreme. If you had any sense of direction and had enough common sense to correlate the towers with the actual landscape and map orientation, the smoke travels southeast in EVERY FUCKING VIDEO you moron. There, I can cuss just like your little friend. Maybe it'll help you understand things better. Did you ever gradudate elementary school? If you're standing west of an object moving southeast, it moves left to right and into the distance If you're standing north of that object, it moves right to left and into the distance. If you're standing east of that moving object, it moves right to left and towards you. If you're standing south of that moving object, it moves left to right and towards you. You've impressed me with how ridiculous your argument is, especially considering you expect people to believe millions of people in NYC are either blind, stupid, or were not paying attention on the morning of 9/11 and didn't notice that there was NO SMOKE PLUME (according to you and titorite, although you've tap danced around that simple yes or no question as to whether there WAS a smoke plume or not). You are currently incapable of overcoming your brainwashing FL
____________________________________________________________ . . . The US government has declared civil war on itself. Its lust for war grew so great... Liberty before death. We run , we live, We fight again, till we win. We did not start this fight. We damn sure did not willingly pay our taxes to buy the bullets and drones that shall be used to kill us. We will correct the violations of this rogue nation....our rogue nation. We will fix this because nobody else can. You will work to help me help us all to fix this failure. After you're done educating yourself, Action!!!
Just as I thought, the usual mix of truth and fiction, leading naive, uneducated, and gullible people down the rabbit hole never to return. No wonder the government gets away with this sort of thing, there are too many REALLY dumb people out there who fall for their gimmicks, hook, line, and sinker, who THEN turn around and claim verifiable evidence is fabricated, while their fantasies based on imaginary evidence which doesn't exist is the absolute "truth". Good luck with your "journey" down that hole, and congrats again on muddying the waters so thoroughly, the truth may well NEVER be widely known and the culprits will continue to walk free without fear of justice ever catching up to them. Hell, you've pissed me off to the point I really don't think I care anymore, and I'm sure that was your intent all along. I guess in YOUR Orwellian mindset, lies are truth, truth is a lie, north is east, west is north, south is up and left is down. Sure thing kid. U mad bro? Seriously though if you are mad you should ask yourself why do you hate the conclusion? ____________________________________________________________ . . . The US government has declared civil war on itself. Its lust for war grew so great... Liberty before death. We run , we live, We fight again, till we win. We did not start this fight. We damn sure did not willingly pay our taxes to buy the bullets and drones that shall be used to kill us. We will correct the violations of this rogue nation....our rogue nation. We will fix this because nobody else can. You will work to help me help us all to fix this failure. After you're done educating yourself, Action!!!
Because it is this sort of bullshit that obscures the truth, and prevents the majority of the population from ever nailing it down well enough to demand action. Most people on the fence about it would just dismiss ALL further discussion of 9/11 contradictions and flat out impossibilities as whacked out fantasies, and would feel perhaps the government story IS true, and that is the end of it. This sort of thing destroys any credibility thousands of people have worked long and hard for, and obscures any real facts and data they present. It's just the sort of thing those complicit with the attacks themselves would do to cover their tracks. What obscures the truth is your own altered ego , manipulated by the propaganda of the day..... that or pig headed foolishness that can not admit when he is wrong. As for the people taking action?... Yeah righht... Action begins with you bub, and I ain't talking about typing online. ____________________________________________________________ . . . The US government has declared civil war on itself. Its lust for war grew so great... Liberty before death. We run , we live, We fight again, till we win. We did not start this fight. We damn sure did not willingly pay our taxes to buy the bullets and drones that shall be used to kill us. We will correct the violations of this rogue nation....our rogue nation. We will fix this because nobody else can. You will work to help me help us all to fix this failure. After you're done educating yourself, Action!!!
For one, you have ZERO proof of what you claim, and rely on fabricated evidence to make your point. You also ignore the fact that effectively the ENTIRE POPULATION of NYC would have to be in on your alleged plot, where they all decided to lie about the fact what they were seeing with their eyes was NOT what they were seeing on live TV. You in fact claim there weren't even any hijacked planes at all, so add American Airlines, United, Logan Airport, Dulles International, and Newark International to your list, as well as the FAA and its air traffic controllers. And of course, don't forget to add EVERY network broadcasting out of NYC that morning, along with all camera crews, reporters, and production staff. Yep, in YOUR world, that all makes sense. Did you never contemplate the possibility that YOUR view of things was manufactured by those who WERE in on it, and who inserted that ridiculous theory into the mix in order to sow confusion in the minds of the less educated and easily misled? Go for it Rambo, go storm CNN and see where it gets you, since you think THEY were the ones who made 9/11 happen. You shouldn't presume that I don't That is a big part of your problem mister.... Too many damn presumptions.. You already know it all so whats the point Jack? ____________________________________________________________ . . . The US government has declared civil war on itself. Its lust for war grew so great... Liberty before death. We run , we live, We fight again, till we win. We did not start this fight. We damn sure did not willingly pay our taxes to buy the bullets and drones that shall be used to kill us. We will correct the violations of this rogue nation....our rogue nation. We will fix this because nobody else can. You will work to help me help us all to fix this failure. After you're done educating yourself, Action!!!
So what's stopping you, go ahead and don some black SWAT outfit and do your thing at CNN, since you're a big bad brave internet tough guy, I'm sure it'll work out for you swell.
If you want to believe little leprechauns dressed in drag wired the WTC towers and switched the live network feeds that morning with their own production, go ahead and believe that, but don't have the audacity to tell sane people that THEY'RE the ones with a problem.
No, they weren't leprechauns.
Well at least you got that one right wud. But in your mind, do you think the entire population of NYC would lie about what they saw that day, or keep silent about it if it were in conflict with what they saw on TV? Do YOU think the smoke plumes were faked? You: You are posting videos doctored by "no planers", proving that the "no planers" doctored them. Bizarre. Why won't you find something more constructive to do, FL, like free your mind some? I daresay, I'm probably not the only one getting the imagery that your loose-cannon routine is not in your best interest or your faction's. You had no problem earlier re-posting (at #344) and then debating in better form the very same video of MSM clips that I posted twice before at #297 and #323 (noting in the second posting the timestamps 0:14 and 1:44 for comparison of smoke and plane trajectories): September 11, 2001 - As It Happened - The South Tower Attack There are certainly other MSM video examples on the net that you could compare those clips with if your objective was to determine the truth rather than obfuscate and worse. I gave your commentary and info serious consideration in further studies of the trajectory matter -- far more, I'd say, than you've shown to No Planers throughout these discussions. I'm aware that you don't agree with me on the trajectories and, since your posts are amounting (imo) to heckling and static, I'm confident that most others here can well assess the trajectories for themselves in the above video and more without having to be repetitiously run through your guantlet and mazes about it. If they'd like to offer their opinions on the subject, I'd be quite interested in hearing them. Would like to be able to say the same about yours but no can do at this juncture. ------- "They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
Do you have ADD or dyslexia? Which tower do you think is closest to you at 0:14 in the video? Since you're probably not going to answer, it's the NORTH tower viewed from the northeast, and smoke is blowing directly away from the observer (southeast), then expanding out from right to left in the distance. At 1:14, it's from the same angle and the smoke is blowing the same direction. But wait, at 1:16 THERE is the original footage of the aptly named [Smoke and Mirrors] video you've been using as "evidence" of tampering, where in the original, here at 1:16, such tampering does not exist, and the smoke is STILL travelling southeast. Since you've proven your inability to judge direction, the view is from the north, and the North Tower is to the right of the South Tower (look at the f'in map if you don't believe me), and the smoke is travelling right to left and away, ie. to the southeast. And BTW, the newscaster says "it went into the east tower". There WAS no "east tower", he obviously meant South Tower, but he may have made the mistake due to the fact the South Tower was actually southeast of the North Tower. All you're doing is proving how inept you are at analyzing video footage. I'm confident that most others here can well assess the trajectories for themselves in the above video and more And they would see for themselves what sort of shit you've been shoveling here. without having to be repetitiously run through your guantlet and mazes about it. The mazes are set up by you, where you absolutely refuse to acknowledge compass orientation, act as if there is no such thing as direction, and refuse to answer yes or no questions with a yes or a no. Here in post 323 you said 0:14 and 1:44. So in case you're going to claim I'm avoiding the issue, 0:14 was recorded from the northeast of the North Tower, and the smoke is travelling southeast as explained previously. The footage at 1:44 was recorded from the west of both towers, resulting in a left to right and outwards direction of the smoke, and a right to left approach of the aircraft into the South Tower. Are you really that blind, dumb, or confused? Are you ever going to admit you're mistaken, or are you going to keep on posting this dung every 50 posts or so, pretending that you've never been proven wrong on this topic? I consider those who FABRICATE "video oddities" where none existed before to be liars, swindlers, and worse. What you've posted as "evidence" is NOT "technical Videography", it is nothing more than amaturish attempts to distort and doctor the original footage while claiming that's what they "found" in that original footage, where those distortions and "oddities" did not exist till they got their hands on it, edited it, then published their "findings". Again, the very video you posted just now, showing the raw footage (timestamp 1:16), proves that the person who "found" the manipulation in the smoke plume is the person who ADDED that manipulated smoke plume, since the original footage does NOT contain such manipulation. In terms of proof that "no planers" are themselves manipulating and fabricating evidence to "prove" the videos are fabricated, here's a prime example of their "work". Observe the original footage in the following video from 4:35 to 4:59. It's obvious the smoke plume in that original footage is not manipulated. Now look at their "evidence", where someone has produced a video aptly named [9/11 TV Fakery: Smoke & Mirrors]. It is obvious the smoke plume has been erased and overlayed with a copy, progressing to an enlarged copy from right to left. The author has even indicated with yellow lines where he doctored the video. Now how's that for being dumb and believing everything you see on YouTube? Most people on the fence about it would just dismiss ALL further discussion of 9/11 contradictions and flat out impossibilities as whacked out fantasies, and would feel perhaps the government story IS true, and that is the end of it. This sort of thing destroys any credibility thousands of people have worked long and hard for, and obscures any real facts and data they present. It's just the sort of thing those complicit with the attacks themselves would do to cover their tracks. Don't be silly. No Planers haven't stood in the way of Planers demanding action. On the contrary, I've asked since long before arriving here why your side hasn't moved to prosecute if they have it all figured out. Stop using us as the excuse for Planer inactions. As far as I know, a majority of the population being agreeable isn't required to proceed prosecutorially in Criminal cases. Lynch mobs are maybe what you're imagining in the way of demanding action. Even the American Revolution probably didn't have a majority of the population concurring -- at least at first. As for the people on the fence you spoke of, 9/11 shouldn't be a contest for most popular and marketable narrative, imo. My guess is that some aren't much interested in the truth or discussions or researching for themselves -- Planes or no Planes. Perhaps it's condescending, intelligence-insulting attitudes like yours and the implausibility of remote control mantras that are hindering your group from convincing others. You've all along been peddling "9/11 contradictions and flat out impossibilities as whacked out fantasies" by the pretense that 9/11 should strangely be handled as some kind of "exceptional" case where it's considered crazy, etc., to scrutinize available videos for veracity. Even an unarmed theft at a convenience store with cameras gets more serious investigation of the film and its accuracy or lack thereof than you and yours are willing to accept as routine procedure in 9/11 evidence gathering. Like you said, that's just the sort of thing those complicit with the attacks themselves would do to cover their tracks. Let me tell you that, by my reckonings, those dumbed-down and ludicrous strategies, illogical denials and suppressive prohibitions against evidence you don't like doesn't sway as many people to your arrogant, muddying and demeaning way of thinking as much as you seemingly suppose. ------- "They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
Ping to post 554 with clear evidence of tampering by no planers to make video footage appear to be tampered with. Well no shit, THEY are the ones doing the tampering.
Hey genius, check your ping to post 554. So will you now admit that you have been trying to pass off videos doctored by no planers as actual evidence of a huge conspiracy by all news networks and the people of NYC on the morning of 9/11?
As I've said all along, fabricating evidence is not called scrutiny, it's called falsification of evidence and quackery. In terms of what I post regarding 9/11, I post known scientific principles and how they relate to the events of 9/11, such as the impossibility of the towers falling at near free fall speed into themselves as if the lower floors didn't exist, as well as the obvious free fall speed of WTC7 as if it were falling through thin air. I post the fact that at least some of the hijackers are still alive. I post the fact that it is physically impossible for a 757 to fly several feet over the Pentagon lawn at over 500 mph while not even scraping the lawn, and flying nose level into the Pentagon ground floor, especially when piloted by a inept fool who couldn't even fly a single engine propeller driven plane.. I post reports concerning foreign assets found with tons of explosives on the George Washington Bridge that day, and the involvement of their brethren jumping with joy and dancing to the sight of the WTC towers collapsing, and how they were picked up by law enforcement and detained, then released. I post the plausibility of remote controled aircraft being the aircraft that actually took part in the attacks of that day, and historical data backing up that hypothesis. I have posted many other things concerning that day, but not once have I posted as factual and definitive any hair brained scenario which would require huge leaps of faith to accept, especially if it defies all logic and would require millions of co-conspirators to pull off. So no, I don't post "9/11 contradictions and flat out impossibilities as whacked out fantasies", I identify how the official story is impossible, and how scientific fact contradicts the official legend. By you peddling whacked out fantastical stories as 9/11 "truth", you discredit those who ARE honestly researching the facts concerning 9/11, and their work, since the masses of ignorant Americans who believe bin Laden was behind 9/11 will group what YOU say along with what Architects and Engineers for 9/11 Truth and other such experts have to say, and dismiss BOTH of you without any thought thinking you are both saying similar things. If you can admit to me and the rest of the forum that you have been mistaken, and that you can see how you might be perceived as a disinfo specialist due to your posts and your refusal to answer honestly any question asked of you, then perhaps I WON'T think of you as a disinfo specialist working for this government, or that of another involved party, such as Israel. If you can't admit that or won't, then from now on I'll know what you truly are, and that isn't anything good. NO no no , you see you did not even pay attention to what you read... you gave it just a quick gloss over and replied with the first witty snarky comment you could think of. I am not an internet tough guy. Nor am I a keyboard warrior. I do stuff in real life.... I have tried to write about my exploits here once or twice... in an effort to encourage others to commit to daring exploits..... Mind you I am not a cold blooded killer so murder is off the table but everything short of that in the effort to restore liberty to people, anything else is an option. And in my time here I have been made aware that I am not alone in the effort. Unfortunately you do not seem to be with us FL You seem to be against those that would espouse outrageous conspiracy theories ... only it's no theory... I think deep down inside you know in your heart of hearts that their are inconsistencies that have been pointed out to you... Inconsistencies you are choosing to ignore in lieu of being right. ..... Or at least not being wrong.... Meh.... I do my thing and theirs nothing you can say or do to alter that. Just as their is little you can do about changing how little you have done in the past... you Former Lurker can only change how much more active you will be in the future. ____________________________________________________________ . . . The US government has declared civil war on itself. Its lust for war grew so great... Liberty before death. We run , we live, We fight again, till we win. We did not start this fight. We damn sure did not willingly pay our taxes to buy the bullets and drones that shall be used to kill us. We will correct the violations of this rogue nation....our rogue nation. We will fix this because nobody else can. You will work to help me help us all to fix this failure. After you're done educating yourself, Action!!!
I think deep down inside you know in your heart of hearts that their are inconsistencies that have been pointed out to you... Inconsistencies you are choosing to ignore in lieu of being right. ..... Or at least not being wrong.... Care to explain why you're posting false evidence and claiming it supports your theory? See post 554 before you respond. See post 554 before you respond. I have not. You have though... You have made up claims that no one other than you have made... Twisted perversions of the facts presented by others.. Twisted for the soul purpose of attempting to make others look bad so that you yourself can avoid the egg on your face. I mean you think Wake vortex only exists if their is smoke and that without smoke that phenomena can not be observed.... You have said as much to me in post after post after post.... False evidence is you .....You are arguing with disinformation tactics.... The 25 rules of disinformation.... you are using them verbatim. And post 554 was already responded too... in post 560.... the very post you quoted.... maybe next time you will read my response instead of quoting my unread response demanding I respond to you still.....< p> Like I said you like to spam. If you can't win with presumptions you are quite willing to post pages of copy and paste OR if you do that too often you'll break down a post like this one and dissect it sentence by sentence and respond sentence by sentence..... Thus filling up a page with your words again... knocking off everyone elses words... It is a very insidious tactic you SOB. I wish you would not use the enemies play book.... but you choose your sides whatever. You like FEMA Camps and government reasoning then by all means enjoy your stay in their custody. ____________________________________________________________ . . . The US government has declared civil war on itself. Its lust for war grew so great... Liberty before death. We run , we live, We fight again, till we win. We did not start this fight. We damn sure did not willingly pay our taxes to buy the bullets and drones that shall be used to kill us. We will correct the violations of this rogue nation....our rogue nation. We will fix this because nobody else can. You will work to help me help us all to fix this failure. After you're done educating yourself, Action!!!
I'm going to say here, a bit before your latest batch of 50 or so posts fully cycles through, that I could just as easily say it's Planers like you who've manipulated and fabricated evidence to sabotage No Planers. Your obsessive compulsion to slander so profusely, Gordion Knot-like, is way beyond my capacity to deal with untangling it all as I have many other things I need to do and would rather do, here and elsewhere, with my time. I don't know what your problem is with open investigations that are often learn-as-you-go and not some devious conspiracy to deceive. I'm not a New Yorker familiar with the landscape or a Videography tech by trade but how much does it matter if you aren't or anyone else isn't an expert in that particular field but is able to notice anomalies and cares to check out the analyses? Aren't you the one who claims practically all the witnessess rightly know what they saw with their own eyes that day and in the media? Well, I saw smoke moving in two different directions compared to a plane flying in from the right of the screen and still do -- with the smoking Tower somewhat more to the You seem way more bothered than I am about me going out on a limb to state what it looks like to me, whether or not I could be proved wrong about that. I think it would have been remiss and egotistical of me to not raise the question as I saw it so as to avoid having scorn heaped on me from the likes of you for human error on my part. If I'm wrong about it, as you insist, does it still say anything to you about the alleged eyewitnesses and millions of others, as you've alluded to, possibly being mistaken about what they think they saw in the various disaster areas and on TV? It should tell you that you might be wrong too -- about the correctness or not of some numbers of their testimonies. Also, I never said that the 8.5 second Internet Archived NIST clip was an exact duplication of the video that you've been tarring and feathering, so to speak, or that it was the extent of the scene's appearance in the documentary that I haven't seen all of and you probably haven't either. Apparently, you think the section you cited in the MSM newsclip video is enough to declare it a deliberately deceptive work of No Planers, not faked at all by the Media and the totality of all there is to it regarding its context within the documentary. I disagree that's grounds enough for your decree. I can't say for certain if a real No Planer [Edit to add: at YouTube] was sincerely trying to debunk what they saw correctly to be manipulated video but I suspect that's the case and they didn't know it might be a snare to set them up and other No Planers for harrasement about the effort to analyze it. Wouldn't surprise me if something more sinister along those lines is involved with it in addition to War propaganda tactics on 9/11 and later -- maybe from a guv or foreign affiliated provacateur in league with the perps or some hostile Planer or whatever. Who knows? Not me but I gave you the background I had on it to the best of my ability. I don't know what you think you've proven other than your quickness to post your jumpings to dubious conclusions. It doesn't seem to matter much to you if you might be wrong or not -- just if you can convince others that it's somehow worse and unpardonable if No Planers are ever less than 100% accurate too in their evaluations. Well, at least we do have actual evidence submitted for open examination -- unlike you and your speculative, improbable remote control assertions. Edited for striking and bracketed correction at paragraph 3, bracketed insert at last paragraph, punctuation, grammar, and spelling. ------- "They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
No, I didn't do that. You are misleading people by trying to pass off your scurrilous imagineerings as truth when it isn't and you're doing that deliberately, imo. Do you think everybody here who can read and see what you're doing is dumber than you and won't catch-on to your unethical M.O.? Seems so but don't count on it. Edited last sentence and spelling. ------- "They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
Do YOU think the smoke plumes were faked? I think all the videos of a plane hitting the wtc are fake. I think it's obvious. I don't really care to argue about it. What IS obvious is that no planers are fabricating evidence to support their theory, since no such evidence exists in real life. What it comes down to is that you've been caught red-handed trying to pass off fabricated evidence as if it were a bona-fide, 100% true and accurate analysis of REAL video that was broadcast on 9/11, or even on a later date. You used an obviously fraudulent analysis as a cornerstone of your "proof", where all you've done is given me a REALLY good idea of what "no planers" are all about, and that is ignoring every possible piece of evidence collected which contradicts their own far-out fantasy, and actually creating fake videos which are supposed to support what they say. Even when caught red-handed, you tap dance around the issue and claim I'M the one trying to pull a fast one on everyone here. Okie dokie dude, go try to fool some young kid who doesn't know any better, I'm sure you'd have better luck. If you can't tell the difference from a northwesterly view of the North Tower as opposed to a westerly view of BOTH towers, then you are beyond hope, OR, you are faking being that stupid. Either way, it's obvious you'll continue to spew what you do till the end of time, no matter HOW much clear evidence there is to the contrary. Just one last time, in case you really ARE that confused as to what you're seeing. The clip at 0:14 is a view of the North Tower from the northwest facing southeast, as can be clearly seen since it was emitting smoke as it was stuck by the first plane, and the South Tower is obscured due to the fact it is directly southeast of the North Tower. The smoke is blowing towards the South Tower. At 1:44 it is clearly a video taken from the west, as both towers are visible, and the North Tower is spewing smoke from left to right towards the South Tower. The plane approaches from right to left and strikes the South Tower. I'm not a rocket scientist, yet I was able to figure that one out without breaking a sweat. I'd hate to see you have to figure something out that took much more thought than that, since you are apparently unable to understand something any reasonably intelligent person would easily understand. There is no smoke "blowing in opposite directions" except from out of your own head. You seem to be an expert at it, in your own mind at least. You should go back to disinfo school since you obviously suck at what you're trying to accomplish. Correction. With all these idiotic back and forth posts I misspoke and said the first shot was from the northeast. I meant northwest, and had said northwest hundreds of posts ago. Lean to the left, smoke. Lean to the right. Stand up. Sit down. Fight, fight, fight with FL -- cuz, obviously, that's what they want you to do and seems they don't have anything better to do than spend their time on this for kicks. lol I'm aware that it all makes sense to you but, like I said before, you are no longer eligible to assist in deciding the matter for me. Your view makes about as much sense to me as this possibility for the destruction of the WTC -- which is slightly more plausible than your remote control non-evidence in the scenario, although I'll admit not by much /S: The Day The Earth Stood Still - Truck Destruction Sequence Edited paragraph 1. ------- "They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
I knew that. lol Not really. Since I'm here, though, do you realize that the example you cited a couple of times at 1:16 in the MSM newsclips video isn't really comparable to the Internet Archived NIST video because the NIST video shows a plane approach and the MSM newsclip video doesn't? This longer, 10-min. version of the video you've been rampaging about for so long has comparable examples of the archived NIST documentary in question (at the start) and the alleged plane impact too: 9/11 TV Fakery: Smoke & Mirrors I'm posting it because I like this question and answer session in the Comments section there: "that's the point, they didn't contain a plan like this. They messed up big time and everyone knows about it now. Anhd anyway this was a production set up by the media you follow without question, not your temporary government figureheads." These are the soundtrack lyrics, since they are annoyingly hard to hear there: Circuits buzzing, visions passing The floating seeds of timeless travel I've seen the past, Not sure what's the meaning of that so, Edited a typo + punctuation and am moving on... ------- "They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
I have been following this debate on and off for the past couple of days and haven't had time to keep up with the minutiae of the discussion, but I'd like to know how you'd respond to this question. Indeed there seem to be a number of anomalies that I see in this video (posted in #570), as there are in the "As it happened" collection of videos that you posted in #549. How do I know what I am seeing here is a video as it was released or copied from Detroit Public TV and hasn't been doctored to show something other than what the original producer had broadcast? I am focused on just the opening video in the opening of the "Smoke & Mirrors" - the one with the plane that appears out of nowhere for clarity's sake, so we don't get lost in what we are talking about (which can happen rather quickly when folks are discussing these sorts of topics.) I specified not only the short segment at 1:16 of the video you posted, but the time frame between 4:35 to 4:59. That original footage IS what your "Smoke and Mirrors" derived from, although that part of the original footage does not show the approach of the plane, just the resulting fireball and smoke. It is possible that the NIST archive contains the entire feed from that camera, whereas the original was only the live footage being broadcast in real time. It is VERY CLEAR however that the "smoke and mirrors" video was amatuerishly doctored to make it LOOK doctored, ie. the erasure of the original smoke plume and the step graduated copy overlayed where the smoke used to be in the video, along with a different sized impact fireball that hardly expands and doesn't result in a billow of smoke. In ALL of the original video that can be found, the fireball, resulting smoke, and smoke plume from the North Tower match. So yes, the "smoke and mirrors" video is exactly that, a cheap trick pulled off by a no planer to support his case, where he is guilty of the very thing he is accusing all of the news networks of perpetrating on 9/11, and that is fabricating evidence to support his cause. Out of curiousity, do you have a link to the NIST documentary you cite, or are you just repeating what you've heard in the "Smoke and Mirrors" video? Here's another clip of the live CBS footage aired live on the morning of 9/11. It does NOT show the approach of the aircraft. The "Smoke and Mirrors" video claims to have obtained its footage from Detroit Public TV, which in turn, oddly enough, obtained ITS footage from some defunct website named terrorize.dk, which was a domain out of Denmark. It is claimed to be a crop of the CBS footage, yet the CBS footage doesn't show the approach. It's obvious disinfo, which you either fell for, or are actively a participant in. [Edit] Oddly enough, Detroit Public TV has pulled its "documentary" off its website... Please, some of us are really trying to get to the bottom of this. I am a participant in nothing. I am merely trying to get a handle on this stuff. WTF is this, BTW? Yet another version? Ah hah. Here's a clip of footage aired later by CBS, which does show the approach of the aircraft, yet starts with the aircraft already halfway from the right edge of the screen to the right side of the Empire State Building. It would be quite easy to start the clip generated by that terrorize.dk website by taking video with the aircraft out of the frame (ie. when the plane was hidden by the Empire State Building) and then inserting video with the aircraft on its approach, to make it look like the plane appeared out of nowhere. Being the smoke plume WAS doctored by terroize.dk, it is HIGHLY likely that is exactly what was done. In fact, you can see from the Detroit Public TV video at the 0:02 mark that the smoke plume gets fuzzy and appears to jump. That is exactly where the splice was made, and that is exactly where the aircraft "appears out of nowhere". [Edit] Please refer to post Post 582 for further analysis. This is OBVIOUS and BLATENT fabrication of false evidence on the part of terrorize.dk, and then further propagated by the author of the "Smoke and Mirrors" video. Please, some of us are really trying to get to the bottom of this. I am a participant in nothing. I am merely trying to get a handle on this stuff. I wasn't saying you were a participant randge, I was speaking to GreyLmist, but pinging you to what I was saying. Sorry for the misunderstanding. WTF is this, BTW? Yet another version? ' Yes, it's part of the original footage which showed the last part of the approach, and then the resulting impact. See my last post for further clarification as to exactly what is going on with "terrorize.dk", Detroit Public TV, and the "Smoke and Mirrors" video, and how it relates to the actual footage. It's extremely difficult to know whose collection of pixels is the genuine article here and what has been tampered with. I don't have the expertise myself and must rely on the interpretations of others. If they'd had cell phone cameras in Jesus' day, we'd be treated to vids of Jesus walking on water and yet others that show him wading in the surf. "See, they cropped his image and set him on top on the waves!" Then we'd be treated to a hot argument over the physics of waves and the prevalent air currents over the Sea of Galilee. I'm afraid that this is one area of the 911 investigation that suffers from the fact that the evidence is too easily tainted or suffers from a lack of clear provenance. The evidence of tampering on the part of terrorize.dk, the source for the Detroit Public TV and the extended "Smoke and Mirrors" video is blatent, where that video which is used to "prove" TV stations fabricated the aircraft and resulting impacts out of nothing, shows a splice at the 0:02 mark where the smoke appears to jump and go backwards. That is where the footage was modified to make it appear that the "plane came out of thin air". As far as the short version of the "Smoke and Mirrors" video, it is SUPER blatent that the smoke plume has been tampered with, if you compare it to not only the CBS footage, but ANY of the live footage from that day. It's quite ironic that the author of the video, who is claiming himself to be an expert apparently, wasn't bright enough to compare the terrorize.dk video with any of the original footage. Of course this causes confusion among some as to what is real and what isn't, and that is the clear intent of the "no plane theorist". After more analysis, the terrorize.dk video of the aircraft approach was created as follows; The true beginning of the clip is looped, but with the aircraft edited out for the first pass, then restarted several tenths of seconds after the actual start point, this time with the aircraft in frame. Thus, it appears that the aircraft comes out of nowhere. In the original CBS footage, the video was freeze framed with the aircraft circled, then ran up to the end of the clip. The fake footage from terrorize.dk simply added a fake beginning using the original clip with the aircraft erased out of the frame, starting from where the CBS video actually begins to show motion, and then inserted the actual footage to slightly after (tenths of a second) the point of where the first segment was cut from, more than likely to make the splice less noticable in terms of positioning of the smoke plume. If you look though, it is STILL quite noticable, as the smoke jumps backwards right at the same time the aircraft "appears out of nowhere". One more thing about this extended "Smoke and Mirrors" video. At 00:39 into the video it asks, "Why was the camera aimed slightly to the right of the Empire State Building instead of at the burning WTC?". It adds the comment, "A perfect position to catch the arrival of the 2nd plane". Thing is, terrorize.dk CROPPED the original CBS video to make it LOOK that way, whereas the original footage is a wide view of Lower Manhatten taken from north of the Empire State Building, with the WTC centered in the frame. Just one more thing that the "Smoke and Mirrors" video lies about. Continuing the analysis of the "Smoke and Mirrors" extended video, it states at 1:29 that, "This is about the impact that was not shown". The original footage sure DID show that impact, but of course the author of "Smoke and Mirrors" would have his audience believe that his statement is beyond reproach. And of course, at 1:41 into the video, he shows his doctored version of the impact and the smoke plume from the North Tower, which he obviously edited from the original CBS footage to make it look as it does. He did this by erasing the smoke plume, copying a part of it, then cutting and pasting it in expanding sequences to recreate a fake plume. He then makes the claim that's what the original footage really shows, where in fact HE is the one who made it look that way. He goes on to show at 7:38 the actual CBS footage, which apparently he remembered DID exist, and claims it is a different clip of what he just spent minute upon minute "analyzing". He's disingenious enough to claim that the CBS newscaster is unaware of the plane in the video, whereas the live feed was NOT showing the aircraft approach, it only caught the actual fireball after the impact. It was only by replaying the feed from that particular camera AFTER the impact that the approach was visible. [Edit] Upon reexamining the live CBS footage, it's apparent that the newscaster didn't catch the plane on the first replay (2:33 into the video), but DID see it on the 2nd replay at 3:24 into the video, which is posted below. Has ANYONE besides me paid any attention to these rather critical inconsistencies and obvious deception? It's quite obvious to me what the "no plane" movement is all about, and that is to deceive, mislead, and trick casual observers of the 9/11 Truth movement using fabricated evidence, false claims, and outright lies. What is obnoxious and sickening to me is the fact there are some who would ridicule those who disbelieve such nonsense, and accuse THOSE people of "disinfo", where it is blatently apparent it is the "no plane" movement that is pure disinformation being used to discredit or at minimum obscure any valid scientific data concerning 9/11, and to dismiss crucial analysis and discussion contrary to their agenda. 1. Post #525 | PBS-Center 07 : US Department of Commerce, NIST : Free Download & Streaming : Internet Archive Click here: http://archive.org/details/PBS-Center07 -- 8.5 sec. clip with audio of the PBS documentary. Full version at Internet Archive. PBS-Center 07 (May 25, 2010) US Department of Commerce, NIST This movie is part of the collection: NIST WTC Organized Video Repository Producer: US Department of Commerce, NIST 2. Post #572 | 9/11 TV Fakery: Smoke & Mirrors -- long version, 10 min. Description: The particular clip analyzed in this video was found on the 9/11 website terrorize.dk (now gone) back in early 2004 and has not been altered by the video-maker in any way. [My note: Contains the NIST PBS clip listed above at beginning of the video.] 3. Post #373 | 9-11 TV Fakery Smoke & Mirrors (short version) -- 4 min. Description: The particular clip analyzed in this video was found on the 9/11 website terrorize.dk (now gone) back in early 2004 and has not been altered by the video-maker in any way. 4. Post #549 | September 11, 2001 - As It Happened - The South Tower Attack -- 8.5 min. Description: This segment is comprised of a succession of newscasts that feature the impact of Flight 175 into the South Tower as it happened LIVE at 9:03 AM. This segment documents and preserves how just about each and every network covered the moment the South Tower was struck on live television. Included are clips from ABC News, CBS News, WNYW-TV (Channel 5, New York), WNBC- TV (Channel 4, New York), NY1 (New York One, All News), Fox News Channel, WCBS- TV (Channel 2, New York), WPIX-TV (Channel 11, New York)... Also included in this segment are four NON-BRAOADCAST angles of the impact of Flight 175 into the South Tower. They are included here for completeness and utilize audio from NPR Radio from the morning. This is an exerpt from the DVD - "September 11, 2001 - As It Happened - A Composite." 5. randge's newsclip video at Post #577 | Second plane hit, CBS, 9/11, 09:04 -- 0:18 seconds Description: Second plane hit, CBS, 9/11, 09:04 [My note: plane comes from behind Empire State building] 6. FL's newsclip video at Post #578 | 2nd hit CBS 9:17 am -- 0:38 seconds Description: 2nd plane impact 7. FL's newsclip video at Post #576 | 2nd hit - WCBS-TV (CBS2) **LIVE** -- 0:50 seconds Description: Live news footage of United Airlines Flight 175 hitting the south tower of the World Trade Center. You DO NOT actually see the plane in this video, the camera zooms out only after the plane crashed. Taken from local CBS affiliate CBS-2 in New York. [My note: no plane but smoke and explosion examples for comparisons to other videos] 8. FL's YouTube version of PBS-Center 07 documentary clip [Refs. NIST + Smoke and Mirrors videos] at Post #578 | 2nd hit Detroit Public TV (CBS 9:05 crop from terrorize.dk) -- 0:09 seconds Description: 2nd plane impact 9. הוכחה לזיוף טלוויזיוני ב 9/11 העשן מוכפל ! -- Hebrew version at YouTube of the Smoke and Mirrors long version video, posted June of this year. Published on Jun 25, 2012 by tuvalo2 Noted at 911conspiracy.tv (currently offline) re: Smoke & Mirrors YouTube video posted by Elpiper. Link to Internet Archive Wayback Machine page-copy for terrorize.dk: Second Hit - North of the Empire State Building [Translate from Danish to English] Edited to add 3 more videos + formatting + 911conspiracy.tv info and terrorize.dk link + spelling + Notation below at Post #576 by FormerLurker [FL]: ------- "They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
Did you happen to miss my last series of posts which thoroughly proves that the "Smoke & Mirrors" videos is actually a fraudulent succession of edits to the original CBS source video? PBS-Center 07 (May 25, 2010) US Department of Commerce, NIST View Direction: north Duration: 8.475 File Size: 31,700,388 bytes (30.23 MB) This movie is part of the collection: NIST WTC Organized Video Repository Producer: US Department of Commerce, NIST The apparent producer of the video, judging from the watermark in the video is WETA, a Washington DC based public broadcasting station. I have no idea why NIST would associate itself to the video, then again, perhaps with the deception they've already perpetrated it isn't hard to imagine they'd be the ones behind this one as well. Here's a bit about WETA It's clear as day they (either WETA or NIST itself) manipulated the CBS video to create that video of the approach, where the plane appears out of nowhere. I posted the NIST video clip for the PBS documentary referenced in the Smoke and Mirrors videos at Post #525 and again at Post #586 in a collection of related videos for comparisons as an access convenience. ------- "They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
Out of curiousity, are you ever going to tell me which way YOU think the smoke is travelling in each clip in regards to compass direction? Uh yeah, I just responded to that post. Now why do you think a WETA produced video would be claimed by NIST? Was it NIST who doctored the CBS video, or was it WETA? Oh yes, I guess I missed that one. I had earlier asked you for a simple yes or no as to whether you were saying there wasn't a smoke plume coming from the North Tower, and in your response in post 525 you said something about me posting "voluminous and redundant, bilious verbiage round and round and round". Like wow, just a bit of projection there on your part, don't you think? You still tap danced and dodged the question, so I didn't bother reading that post any further. Apparently that's where you decided to post a video of the "airplane out of nowhere", ignoring the very simple question as to whether or not you think there was a smoke plume or not. Watcha think of this? I think video compression causes a loss of resolution, especially that of a repetitive linear pattern such as the outside of the WTC. Have you ever used a digital camera to take a picture of an object with closely spaced lines in it? You'll notice there is distortion where the lines appear to blend together. The same is true of compressed video. It is digitized, and pixel data which the compression algorithm deems redundant is discarded. The only way to see what the actual video showed in terms of the entry hole damage at that instant in time is to view the non compressed version, which may or not be digital, since in 2001 I think a lot of high end cameras were using digital recording rather than analog. The thing is about the whole "no planes" theory is that nobody appears to be in agreement as to what is real and what is not, even between no planers themselves. Nobody wants to say yes I think this is true, or no I think that is untrue. Add to that the fraudulent evidence, along with the rather implausible idea that the entire international news media conspired to produce false events in real time using videos prepared ahead of time in a highly sophisticated studio, and that nobody out of the millions of people in NYC stated that what was broadcast on live television was NOT what they were seeing with their own eyes, well, I think it's a rather impossible concept. Indeed there seem to be a number of anomalies that I see in this video (posted in #570), as there are in the "As it happened" collection of videos that you posted in #549. I think you meant #572 because #570 doesn't have a video posted there. The sprawl of vids and info is confusing and posts have been problematic to go to specifically on my computer when doing searches in Full Thread mode (probably because it's vast), so I consolidated the posts and their videos (at Post #586) which I thought to be most relevant to the current issues about the Smoke and Mirrors controversy, as well as the anomalies about smoke and plane trajectories, etc. Below are the two videos which are listed there that I think you've noted for various anomalies observed: 2. Post #572 | 9/11 TV Fakery: Smoke & Mirrors -- long version, 10 min. 4. Post #549 | September 11, 2001 - As It Happened - The South Tower Attack -- 8.5 min. I am focused on just the opening video in the opening of the "Smoke & Mirrors" - the one with the plane that appears out of nowhere for clarity's sake, so we don't get lost in what we are talking about (which can happen rather quickly when folks are discussing these sorts of topics.) Also at Post #586 linked above is a NIST clip (Producer: US Department of Commerce, NIST) at Internet Archive of the PBS-Center 07 documentary referenced in both of the Smoke and Mirrors videos. This is the link for the documentary clip at Internet Archive: http://archive.org/details/PBS-Center07. An Individual Files section is listed at the bottom of the page that you might be able to reference for further comparisons. ------- "They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
Actually, the source of the "Smoke and Mirrors" video is from Detroit Public TV, which got ITS version of the clip from either terrorize.dk or WETA. I don't see where NIST comes in to the picture except for the fact they have archived the video. So either terrorize.dk, WETA, or NIST (if they are the actual source), are the ones who doctored the CBS video to give the illusion of a plane appearing out of nowhere. Have you ever used a digital camera to take a picture of an object with closely spaced lines in it? You'll notice there is distortion where the lines appear to blend together. The same is true of compressed video. It is digitized, and pixel data which the compression algorithm deems redundant is discarded. The only way to see what the actual video showed in terms of the entry hole damage at that instant in time is to view the non compressed version, which may or not be digital, since in 2001 I think a lot of high end cameras were using digital recording rather than analog. The thing is about the whole "no planes" theory is that nobody appears to be in agreement as to what is real and what is not, even between no planers themselves. Nobody wants to say yes I think this is true, or no I think that is untrue. Add to that the fraudulent evidence, along with the rather implausible idea that the entire international news media conspired to produce false events in real time using videos prepared ahead of time in a highly sophisticated studio, and that nobody out of the millions of people in NYC stated that what was broadcast on live television was NOT what they were seeing with their own eyes, well, I think it's a rather impossible concept. You have failed to address any of the anomalies in the picture. You talk about video compression, but the images are taken from a video shown on the news. One of the ones used as "evidence" of a plane hit. Wud, ALL videos found on the Internet are compressed, thus obscuring fine details in the sort of patterns I described. You asked me what I thought, I gave you my thoughts, so what's the beef? killtown.911review.org/2nd- hit.html There are hundreds of images and animated gifs there, but not much in the way of video that's still available. So what exactly are you talking about? You didn't post a video, just somebody's tiny video capture images which may or not even be "untouched". You have to be more specific than "Watcha think of this", especially when there is nothing being said or asked. You want to talk about THIS video? It's an actual video of what I think you're trying to show. Notice the blockiness though, that is because it is not only compressed, but it's a digital enlargement of a compressed video that's THEN been recompressed and uploaded to YouTube which runs the video through an Adobe Flash video converter which ALSO performs its own compression. Nope. In case you didn't get the memos about that earlier: I took you off my Assistance List on that matter. ------- "They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
If you want to watch something which might answer some of your questions and open your eyes to things, here's this... Deleted a duplicate post here. Edit to add: So that this post is not just a waste of space, am noting here that additional info was added to Post #586 since the time this one and #603 (with the memo on reference material copies sent) were pinged. ------- "They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
Pinging copies of reference materials at Post #586. May have to try accessing the post more than once if it goes to the opening post in this thread first, as my computer does likely due to thread-length. If so, go to the end of the path for Post #586 in the browser and click Enter.
------- "They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
So let's see. You are refusing to state WHAT direction you think the smoke is going, HAVE refused to state which direction the smoke is going, yet CLAIM that the smoke is going in the wrong direction. Thing is, you don't seem to KNOW WHICH DIRECTION the smoke SHOULD be travelling to begin with, and can't seem to determine the orientation for the view in each clip you specified, ie. 0:14 and 1:44. The first view is from the northwest of the North Tower, with the South Tower obscured since it was directly southeast of the North Tower. The second view is from due west of the towers from a further distance, with the North Tower to the left and the South Tower to the right. The smoke moves to the southeast in both clips. So what part of any of the above are you unable to understand, and/or what part of it do you disagree with? You're not helping prove your sincerity in this by ducking and evading the question. For anyone who wants to see how the NIST/WETA/Detroit Public TV/terrorize.dk/Smoke and Mirrors "plane out of nowhere" video clip was created, click on the link below to post 578. Subsequent posts 582, 583, and 584 analyze the deception behind the "Smoke and Mirrors" video in detail.
My apologies to terrorize.dk as I've checked the archived page you linked, and using the Google Translate function, found that the author of THAT site was apparently saying the same things I just said about how the "airplane appears out of nowhere" was faked, ie. by splicing in a modified version of the beginning which has the plane erased, picked up at the 0:02 mark where the smoke jumps backwards. The person was refering to the Detroit Public TV video, so obviously DPTV didn't get the video from terrorize.dk, rather it was the other way around. So then apparently both Detroit Public TV and WETA got their video from the same source, one or the other produced it. Is that source actually NIST? Did NIST fake the "plane out of nowhere" to instigate the "no plane" theory? You're not helping prove your sincerity in this by ducking and evading the question. You're like a Looney Tunes duck, honestly, "daffy-1". This is an example of why it's unproductive to converse seriously with you lately, FL, and why the length of this thread (over unwarranted redundancies) is causing manueverability issues to wade through it for more important matters. I have not refused to state which direction the smoke is going and don't recall at the moment having used the particular phrase "wrong direction", although I might have. I've told you multiple times already that the smoke is going in opposite directions. Also, that the plane is moving from right to left in both examples I cited (0:14 and 1:44) but the smoke is moving to the left and away from the plane flying through a clear sky in the first example (at 0:14) and in the second example (at 1:44) the smoke is moving towards the plane and over it as it flows from left to right. Capiche now? Probably not but it's not a priority to me if you still don't get it. Ref: Post #586 ------- "They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
Also, that the plane is moving from right to left in both examples I cited (0:14 and 1:44) So what? The plane was moving northwards, so viewing from the northwest or from the west will show a right to left motion. but the smoke is moving to the left and away from the plane flying through a clear sky in the first example (at 0:14) No. It is moving away from the observer, and the view is from the northwest, thus the direction of the smoke is southeast. The easterly component will give the appearance of a leftwards motion, but THAT part of the plume is well past the WTC and out in the distance after having expanded. It is quite clear that the smoke pouring out of the North Tower is heading directly towards the South Tower, which is southeast of the North Tower. and in the second example (at 1:44) the smoke is moving towards the plane and over it as it flows from left to right. You're wrong. In the second clip, viewed from roughly due west of the WTC, the smoke is not just moving left to right (southwards), but also outwards (eastwards). The plane itself was west of the smoke and does not fly through it. Capiche now? Do you? The person was refering to the Detroit Public TV video, so obviously DPTV didn't get the video from terrorize.dk, rather it was the other way around. So then apparently both Detroit Public TV and WETA got their video from the same source, one or the other produced it. Is that source actually NIST? Did NIST fake the "plane out of nowhere" to instigate the "no plane" theory? afaik, the source is NIST. The Producer is listed as US Department of Commerce, NIST. Doubtful that the video was created for any NoPlanesTheory reason. As I said before (I think more than once), to my recollection, the video was Media manipulated for Iraq War propaganda purposes. For whatever reason it was done, that is likely where the graduated smoke copy was inserted, although there are smoke anomalies and smoke-shape issues between similar scenes in the videos listed for comparison. Other MSM video clips of 9/11 do show the plane image appearing out of nowhere. As far as the plane being shown on only one side or the other of the Empire State building and not a full approach path in some places, I doubt that is meant to be intentionally misleading as to where the plane image first appears in its approach. Rather, it's likely due to particular disscussion points about the scene. The video states that the smoke is the main focus of the analysis and not so much the plane, etc. Nice talking to ya this time, FL. Appreciated reading your thoughtful note. ------- "They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
Things is GL, the Smoke and Mirrors author implies that this is actual footage from the day of 9/11, and uses it to "prove" his "no planes" theory. He even has the blatent audacity to say that the NIST video is taken from a different camera than the CBS video which he later includes in his presentation, while making dishonest remarks about how the "camera was aimed slightly to the right of the Empire State Building instead of at the burning WTC", where in reality the shot is a cropped and doctored version of the CBS video he later includes in his own video. He goes on to draw attention, repeatedly I might add, to how it "comes out of nowhere". And yes, he then shows the wider angle version of the CBS clip with a doctored smoke plume, going into detail about how it was fake. Sure it's fake, but it's ALSO doctored video based upon the original CBS video, which does NOT contain a fake smoke plume, it contains the real one. Do you? I think so. You seem to be saying, basically, that it's just an optical illusion but the shift in the buildings from one view to the next isn't significant enough for me to see it your way at this time. Didn't appreaciate this note as much as the last one, though, but nice try anyway. Edited for spelling. ------- "They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
It's a matter of 3 dimensional motion in a 2 dimensional space. You need to visualize the depth of the shot.
1st clip is a closeup shot looking southeast, where the 2nd clip is a far away shot looking due east. There will be a 45 degree shift in perspective, AND the perceived depth will be different between the two.
I am behind on reading through the updates to this thread and the time I have left for this session is short. It will likely be a couple of days or more before I can get back to it with enough time for analysis and fact checking. If you check other CBS videos from that day, I think you will find that the plane image does appear out of nowhere in more than the Smoke and Mirrors videos. That isn't the first and only time the MSM CBS-footage of that day has been researched. L8r.
------- "They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
The original CBS source video has the plane freeze framed with a circle around it before showing the approach, and that is the only version of the full approach from CBS I could find. I haven't seen anything other than the doctored NIST video or its derivitives that show a "plane out of nowhere". Thanks for the hints. I'll think on it some more eventually, no doubt, cuz if I happen to forget to do that, you'll most likely make it your business at some point to remind me, I reckon. : /
------- "They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
Will try to look around for more examples of the CBS footage after the weekend - - sooner if possible. Am a bit tuckered out right now and have to get busy shortly with other things. ------- "They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
Well I have never been to disinfo school. And the people that know me know what a real life human being I am... as well as the mess that I am. All that I wish to accompilish is the sharing of information I have gathered over my years of research. (Edited out the snarky shit I had to say) ____________________________________________________________ . . . The US government has declared civil war on itself. Its lust for war grew so great... Liberty before death. We run , we live, We fight again, till we win. We did not start this fight. We damn sure did not willingly pay our taxes to buy the bullets and drones that shall be used to kill us. We will correct the violations of this rogue nation....our rogue nation. We will fix this because nobody else can. You will work to help me help us all to fix this failure. After you're done educating yourself, Action!!!
The no-planers still arguing in this thread? I doubt no-planers will ever go away or be convinced they are in error, but they sure are derailing the main subject of this thread, and that is Israeli involvement in 9/11. I can't say for sure they are disinfo, but I can say they are not very logical thinkers. God is always good!
If you've ever seen a plane fly thru smoke, I think you will agree THEY DO LEAVE A VISIBLE WAKE. "When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall, one by one." Edmund Burke
The Joos had their fingerprints all over 9-11. ;) "When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall, one by one." Edmund Burke
They do with or without smoke, but those planes probably didn't fly through smoke. God is always good!
But they don't [Edit: usually] leave a visible wake in clear air. In fact, I've never seen a wake form from planes passing in and out of clouds. The vortices themselves are rather low speed rotating air currents [Edit: Ok so I was wrong about that, where the core is actually spinning at high speed], they aren't super fast nor are they high pressure cyclones. They have enough force however to affect aircraft flying through them. Thing is, this is what wing tip vortices look like. These were formed by a F-18 pulling a high-g manuever. The creation of visible vortices depends on a number of factors, such as dew point, air temperature, wing loading, velocity, and air pressure. So it is rather impossible to calculate without having detailed weather data for NYC on the morning of 9/11, and knowing the speed of the aircraft with a fair degree of certainty, whether or not visibile vortices should have formed when the plane banked into the South Tower. You are still not understanding this... I think you are being obstinate on purpose. It is like this... THe plane flies... a wake is made... It follows a plane.. it exists regardless... Do you have to see wind to be knocked over by it? I mean this is not that complicated of an idea.... how you could of been missing this far... I can not fathom unless you were doing so purposefully ____________________________________________________________ . . . The US government has declared civil war on itself. Its lust for war grew so great... Liberty before death. We run , we live, We fight again, till we win. We did not start this fight. We damn sure did not willingly pay our taxes to buy the bullets and drones that shall be used to kill us. We will correct the violations of this rogue nation....our rogue nation. We will fix this because nobody else can. You will work to help me help us all to fix this failure. After you're done educating yourself, Action!!!
The vortices don't "follow" the plane, they are formed BEHIND the plane and do not have any forward motion. They drift with the wind, and the wind was moving southeast, away from the towers. Additionally, they are dispersed by the ground and surrounding buildings, and were most likely scattered due to the shock wave created by the explosion. In fact, if you look at the smoke cloud formed at the exit hole of the South Tower, it formed a funnel type cloud within the first few seconds then dispersed. So there is nothing in actual footage which appears different than it should, AND, it's quite obvious a plane hit the building. Additionally, they are dispersed by the ground and surrounding buildings, and were most likely scattered due to the shock wave created by the explosion. In fact, if you look at the smoke cloud formed at the exit hole of the South Tower, it formed a funnel type cloud within the first few seconds then dispersed. So there is nothing in actual footage which appears different than it should, AND, it's quite obvious a plane hit the building. Wow, were making progress. Glad to see you move away from the position of insisting that smoke be present for a wake vortex to exist. Now then, Vortices DO follow the path of the plane. Why you think Newtonian physics do not apply to the 911 planes is beyond me.... anyways the wake is formed and it follows a plane just like a wake of a boat follows a boat. Now if that boat speeds into and over the banks it's wake does not disappear. It crashes into the banks and disperses outwards. Also a newly formed vortex does not drift with the wind...... Come on man you are just now learning about this stuff , who are you trying to fool here US or yourself? Because anyone that knows much about this subject knows some of these lines you have been expressing are grossly incorrect. Like smoke being a necessary component of wake vortex or here saying that a a wake vortex will drift with he wind or comparing the wing tip vortex of a fighter jet in a high G manuver as opposed to a typical commercial jet vortex. The two look very different and I almost wonder if your intent was to mislead. I mean anyone that searches wake vortex in an image search will see how HUGH a vortex is compared to your faux example.... Then you throw in some supposition : ................................................. Additionally, they are dispersed by the ground and surrounding buildings, and were most likely scattered due to the shock wave created by the explosion. ...................................................... Well thats great and all but since you are still learning about how a wake vortex is formed and how long it lasts and how powerful it can be.... The time is not right for you to make suppositions... you need to learn more about this till you know it better. The effects can tumbles cars. If you knew more about wake vortex you would know that too. And no, their is no vortex effect on the towers.. fakers have tried to point to things that arent there... no doubt you have already latched onto those videos and have them ready to post in counter to my words regardless of the accuracy of those vids because those people are grabbing at straws... And please be aware that you last line is total brainwashed circular logic: ........................................... So there is nothing in actual footage which appears different than it should, AND, it's quite obvious a plane hit the building. .............................. And you like to eat apples because apples tastes good and thats why you like to eat apples . You wanna run with remote control planes, and pods, and drones and everything else and then hypocritically claim nothing in that footage is out of the ordinary... you're looking for missile flashes and fighter jet pixel blips and you want to tell us all here that everything is on the up and up on your say so?.... Unless you say otherwise. Keep learning more about the wake vortex effect ... ____________________________________________________________ . . . The US government has declared civil war on itself. Its lust for war grew so great... Liberty before death. We run , we live, We fight again, till we win. We did not start this fight. We damn sure did not willingly pay our taxes to buy the bullets and drones that shall be used to kill us. We will correct the violations of this rogue nation....our rogue nation. We will fix this because nobody else can. You will work to help me help us all to fix this failure. After you're done educating yourself, Action!!!
Don't put words in my mouth. I've never said vortices don't exist simply because you can't see them. I said you WON'T SEE THEM (usually) UNLESS THERE IS SMOKE. I highlighted it and used all caps, so THIS time maybe you might actually understand the difference. As far as physics, did you ever take a course in it? I would seriously doubt you did. In terms of wakes, go back to grade school and ask your teacher if wakes "follow" boats or aircraft, or if they are formed BEHIND THEM. I've never seen a wake chase a boat that was stopped and go past it. Have you? I've seen wakes spread OUTWARDS, but not FORWARDS. One other thing. A wake formed on the surface of a body of water is not the same as a wake formed in a 3 dimensional space such as air. There is a wave motion caused by a disturbance on the surface of water. A wing vortex is simply a rotating air current which eventually dissipates. Put to you this way kid, what's more likely? A) Millions of NYC inhabitants, workers, and tourists were in on a grand conspiracy to fake attacks against the WTC, along with the camera crews, news reporters, firemen, police, EMT crews, international news organizations, and newscasters, using prerecorded video produced at a Hollywood studio, fooled the rest of the world into believing planes hit the WTC towers. B) A relative handful of traitors within our own government secretly outfitted military aircraft with drone technology to fly those aircraft into the towers. C) 19 arabs (some of whom are still alive), who hated us for our freedoms, and who couldn't fly a single engine aircraft, became super skilled fighter jocks that day and expertly guided those aircraft to their targets. I'm going with C because thats what Fox news told me.
Unfortunately, many people still DO believe C, because they think those who are trying to explain B are the same sort of people who believe A. If you bothered watching the airliner vortex video you posted, IT ITSELF said exactly what I said, ie. vortices drift with the wind and eventually dissipate. Go back and watch it genius. As far as the wing vortices formed by the F-18 in a high-g manuever, THAT is an example of a VISIBLE vortex WITHOUT smoke. Is English your first language? In have never seen a boat or a plane come to a sudden & abrupt and complete stop unless it was in a crash of some kind. HOWEVER when a jet ski or boat hops a bank I do indeed notice that the waves of the wake continue on for awhile after the boat comes to a rest on a bank... OR in the sake of a plane , yes the much faster and stronger vortex wake lasts for quite awhile... I gave you some nasa links long ago about their early studies and how that changed the jet industry. Kinda like how speed boundaries must be maintained... That was in that nasa educational link too.... How low flying jets will shake apart when they fly too fast too low.... (anyone wanna touch that aspect with a ten foot pole?) Anyways yeah a wake vortex will persist for awhile... And they are huge and follow the plane that formed them. It is not like they always exist.... If the wings are not moving then no wake is being made but if that baby is flying then YES THE FUCKING WAKE WILL FOLLOW THE FUCKING PLANE YOU CAN NOT BE THIS FUCKING STUPID BUT RATHER MUST BE PLAYING STUPID! I hope the caps helped.... because nobody is as stupid as you are letting on to be..... Yes the plane forms the vortex. However that vortex that has been formed also follows the plane wings that made it. It has no other choice.... and should plane crash that vortex wind will follow right into that smokey fireball..... and at that altitude it should of been their for quite awhile ............ ____________________________________________________________ . . . The US government has declared civil war on itself. Its lust for war grew so great... Liberty before death. We run , we live, We fight again, till we win. We did not start this fight. We damn sure did not willingly pay our taxes to buy the bullets and drones that shall be used to kill us. We will correct the violations of this rogue nation....our rogue nation. We will fix this because nobody else can. You will work to help me help us all to fix this failure. After you're done educating yourself, Action!!!
You may already know this, but a group of pilots got the raw radar tracking data from the FAA and the 757 stayed in normal performance parameters for a 757 untill it passed directly over (onto) a military base (two 757 passed exactly over this base) very soon afterwards of the 757 passing over the base it began performing like a different aircraft, and it would have broken up in mid air if a real 757 had done what the raw data tells us the aircraft that hit the building did. A switcheroo seems likely. Just to show you what sort of vortex an AIRLINER creates, here's an image of an airliner leaving a wake vortex in the clouds behind it. Myself I've never seen one, but then again I've never been sitting in a plane with a back window to see what happens behind the aircraft in flight. HOWEVER, the vortex doesn't chase the plane, it sits where it is, rotates, expands, and dissipates. And as I said, it drifts with the wind. And AGAIN, if there are obstacles such as buildings and the ground itself, it will dissipate quicker and scatter. The blast from the explosion most likely pushed a fair amount of air outwards, so any vortex near the WTC would have been broken up and dispersed within seconds. FINALLY, if you look at the impact video showing the smoke cloud from the impact, there IS a funnel shaped smoke cloud formed. Hey shit for brains, why don't you tone the fuck down, go ask mommy for a nice back rub, and go read a book or something. As far as wakes, yeah sure, I guess they have "horizontal tornadoes" at every airport where planes fly, and passengers are constantly being swept away up in the air like Dorothy and Toto, since those damn wakes are constantly chasing those planes around for hours. Idiot. Yes, that is most likely exactly what happened. As far as being "FUCKING STUPID", I'm not the one who believes that millions of people in NYC were in on the grand conspiracy you claim exists between them and the news networks to fake the 9/11 attacks, where the planes, the impacts, the smoke, and the damage were all fake, and fake video was broadcast in real time to fool everyone else. I'm not the one who can view FAKE videos and think they're authentic, and USE those same fake videos as "proof" that there were no planes, stomping my feet that it was all a big hoax pulled off by millions of people, that they somehow all agreed it'd be a great idea. FL - that photo is a great way to show why that plane today would have winglets- vertical wings at the tips of the wings.
Do you have any more evidence than I do about the pilots and radar stuff.j It takes you four posts to reply to my one.. Why? Because you like to use disinformation tactics one of which is to SPAM an opponents words off a page by doing exactly what you do... I mean it would be easier to address everything I had to say in one post if all you wanted to do was address me but instead you use this tact that takes up much more space and knocks our words to the back pages.... Kudos on your understanding of the disinformation tactics and shame on you for using them. You are no rebel. You are a keyboard warrior. Don't bother standing up for yourself. You wouldn't in real life. Also post 636 is nothing but lol and Hippocratic contradiction. LOL ____________________________________________________________ . . . The US government has declared civil war on itself. Its lust for war grew so great... Liberty before death. We run , we live, We fight again, till we win. We did not start this fight. We damn sure did not willingly pay our taxes to buy the bullets and drones that shall be used to kill us. We will correct the violations of this rogue nation....our rogue nation. We will fix this because nobody else can. You will work to help me help us all to fix this failure. After you're done educating yourself, Action!!!
Yep, just like a modern Boeing 767 has. It reduces much of the vortex effect. Military tanker Boeing KC767's however use a different approach to eliminate vortices, apparently by use of underwing pods to generate counteracting vortices perhaps? It must work since they are able to refuel jet fighters without them having to worry about the wake turbulence... You are the Internet Rambo here kid, one who demands people take "action". I bet you're a real commando on the Internet, one who sits in his mom's basement playing COD 16 hours a day. In terms of disinfo, YOU are the one posting fraudulent videos supporting your fraudulent theory, in hopes you can cause enough confusion and dismay among readers that they just stop reading this thread. You fluctuate between profanities and hissy fits when people don't swallow your lies. Not once have you been able to refute the fact that you've used fraudulent and doctored "evidence" to support your theory, and not once have you posted anything coherent. Instead, you accuse myself and others of somehow posting "disinfo", where it's quite obvious YOU are the one guilty of that. You have not even answered the question as to whether or not you think there were smoke plumes pouring out of the WTC towers that morning, which I've asked of you more than a few times over the course of this thread. Will you ever answer it, or will you continue to tap dance, duck, dodge, and evade the simple yes or no question? Not personally, but if I looked it up on the net I might find something. Right now it's late, perhaps tomorrow I'll get around to it. But I HAVE read or heard about that military base being exactly where the switch was made on at least a few if not all of those flights. Yes I believe in the smoke. Sorry but wakes do follow the things that form them. Including planes. No I do not practice disinfo. I thought about using the tactics like you do but I thought better of it. I have no need to post large pics or practice massive copy and pastes nor the willingness to multi quote over and over and over in all in an effort to bump off commentary I do not think should be on the front page. I can answer everything you have to say in one post...... Yes I believe the the towers did indeed emit smoke. ____________________________________________________________ . . . The US government has declared civil war on itself. Its lust for war grew so great... Liberty before death. We run , we live, We fight again, till we win. We did not start this fight. We damn sure did not willingly pay our taxes to buy the bullets and drones that shall be used to kill us. We will correct the violations of this rogue nation....our rogue nation. We will fix this because nobody else can. You will work to help me help us all to fix this failure. After you're done educating yourself, Action!!!
Two of em for a radar track fact. Could explain a lot. Then why do you post videos of fake smoke plumes, which were doctored from original CBS video coverage to make it appear that the smoke plumes weren't really there and had to be faked? Uh, no they don't. Wingtip vortices do not have a forward velocity other than that induced by wind if it happens to be moving in that direction. What they do is spiral into larger rotating air currents which sink downwards, expand, and dissipate. But why bother yourself with facts if you have BS to peddle. Besides what I've said here, if the planes were in reality KC767 aircraft, they would have produced minimal wing vortices since tankers are designed to fuel other aircraft in flight. If they produced strong vortices, in-flight refueling would be impossible. I posted two or three short segments on scientific radar information, along with a news report from the Washington Post which details the radar info concerning 9/11. To you, scientific facts and reports are "spam", and fraudulent info, whacked out theories, and doctored videos are "good stuff". In case you hadn't noticed, the subject of this thread pertains to the plausibility of remote control of the hijacked planes, or aircraft which were configured to APPEAR as if they were the hijacked planes. The info I posted DOES pertain to that topic, whereas you post ridiculous accusations, ad hominem attacks, whacked out theories, and doctored videos. Now who is REALLY spamming this thread I wonder... Besides, what brought the radar topic to light was the fact you made the false claim that 100% of the US was covered by radar, and that it would be impossible for radar to "lose" any of the hijacked aircraft. I demonstrated how you were wrong, and why you were wrong. Apparently you STILL don't know the difference between primary and secondary radar, as you have yet to briefly explain to me the difference. You CLAIM to know what that difference is, but since you can't or won't demonstrate that you DO know the difference, I'd have to assume you are lying. As far as mulitple posts in response to one of yours, it's to make the thread easier to read where rather than jamming a 3 page response in one post jumping from topic to topic, it's easier to address each topic (or accusation) separately. 4 posts of blather in response to the same singular post to more quickly spam off other peoples words. You could of summed up all you had to say in one posting. Instead you went with a disinformation tactic. I think we're done here. ____________________________________________________________ . . . The US government has declared civil war on itself. Its lust for war grew so great... Liberty before death. We run , we live, We fight again, till we win. We did not start this fight. We damn sure did not willingly pay our taxes to buy the bullets and drones that shall be used to kill us. We will correct the violations of this rogue nation....our rogue nation. We will fix this because nobody else can. You will work to help me help us all to fix this failure. After you're done educating yourself, Action!!!
You could of summed up all you had to say in one posting. Instead you went with a disinformation tactic. So responding to you is now a "disinformation tactic", eh? You have yet to honestly refute anything of what I said in those posts, which pretty much DOES sum up your antics here on this thread. I think we're done here. Uh huh. Likewise. I believe C is correct. Those Arabs could not even fly a Cessna. What makes you think they could fly a jumbo jet? Besides, there are more than a handful of traitors in our governmement. They have been trying to control the M's, military being the most important. They already control money and manpower. "When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall, one by one." Edmund Burke
Over exposure to prolonged amounts of TV can make one believe damn near anything. ____________________________________________________________ . . . The US government has declared civil war on itself. Its lust for war grew so great... Liberty before death. We run , we live, We fight again, till we win. We did not start this fight. We damn sure did not willingly pay our taxes to buy the bullets and drones that shall be used to kill us. We will correct the violations of this rogue nation....our rogue nation. We will fix this because nobody else can. You will work to help me help us all to fix this failure. After you're done educating yourself, Action!!!
Lol, I THINK you're joking. I believe answer C says they did. It's been a very long time since I've watched any TV concerning the attacks of 9-11. Besides, I've been sick with meningitis in the meantime. There is still very much I do not recall. "When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall, one by one." Edmund Burke
No lying manipulator forked tongue faker. Responding to my posts is not disinformation.... Responding to the same post over and over and over with lengthy postings about material unrelated to the conversation or posting with over sized or misleading pics that have no place in the topic ... Effectively spamming off the words you do not want on the front page. ... Yeah.. you are a real person.. you are smart.. but you read that playbook and have choosen a darker path..... and until you can over come your brainwashing ,.... fuck you for your choice and may your neck cave easy under the boot heel of the man. You are done. ____________________________________________________________ . . . The US government has declared civil war on itself. Its lust for war grew so great... Liberty before death. We run , we live, We fight again, till we win. We did not start this fight. We damn sure did not willingly pay our taxes to buy the bullets and drones that shall be used to kill us. We will correct the violations of this rogue nation....our rogue nation. We will fix this because nobody else can. You will work to help me help us all to fix this failure. After you're done educating yourself, Action!!!
The Happy Hooligans of North Dakota were on call to be scrambled to intercept any airplane that left their flight path or turned off their transponder. They were never scrambled. In any event, I have information that it was NORAD which was responsible for those planes hitting the towers. Information from whom? Ursella Grand Pre, the widow of the author (now deceased) Donn Grand Pre. "When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall, one by one." Edmund Burke
You won't be getting paid for your subpar shilling on this thread titorite. Better luck next time. If you cared at all about this topic, you wouldn't be posting bullshit that doesn't make sense using fake evidence as your "proof" that you're right, and attacking me for posting facts and asking legitimate questions of you in regards to your claims. NORAD in and of itself couldn't be the only player. They couldn't nor wouldn't have done it on their own, but they could well have been a factor. Those 9/11 wargames were awfully convenient. And of course, whoever it was that wired WTC 1, 2, and 7, they obviously had some folks in there before 9/11. And the aircraft, well, we can say with a fair degree of certainty that whatever it was that hit the Pentagon, it wasn't a Boeing 757 piloted by one who couldn't even fly a Cessna. You are wrong about this. I've been sick with meningitis and recovering for two years. After that, I was in a sort of half-way house which allowed me to go out and work where I live, while still getting meals and other things including showers and other hygiene. Now, I live on my own and still take care of myself. I hope to get back to driving a truck ASAP. It will just be regional since that cross country stuff is just too hard. "When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall, one by one." Edmund Burke
I saw some info that it was a cruise missile that hit the Pentagon. Can't quite recall when or where I saw it with the meningitis and all. ;) "When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall, one by one." Edmund Burke
A form of cruise missile or drone is most likely.
The few frames of film from the camera at the parking gate shows a flash which did not look at all like a jumbo jet. "When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall, one by one." Edmund Burke
This is a great article. It even tells about Urban Moving Systems, an Israeli front. It also says that it was the Israelis who put charges in the buildings to bring them down. I pity those poor people who breathed all of that asbestos which was released into the air that day. Also, I worked with quite a few FDNY paramedics at Woodstock '94. I'll bet there were a lot of them caught in those buildings when they went down. "When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall, one by one." Edmund Burke
Donna Summner, the singer died recently and maintained it was from inhalation on that day. Have you watched the videos I posted on the topic? all the dogs died years back now..... And on TV we all see the Mesotheloma commercials. It is one of the bigger crimes. hundreds of thousands of people exposed. Not one was warned or offered aid. .... ____________________________________________________________ . . . The US government has declared civil war on itself. Its lust for war grew so great... Liberty before death. We run , we live, We fight again, till we win. We did not start this fight. We damn sure did not willingly pay our taxes to buy the bullets and drones that shall be used to kill us. We will correct the violations of this rogue nation....our rogue nation. We will fix this because nobody else can. You will work to help me help us all to fix this failure. After you're done educating yourself, Action!!!
Some clown at the EPA told New York "All is well don't worry about the air". Re: the Smoke and Mirrors videos-controversy topic This is an addendum to the reference materials (at Post #586) for locating relevant thread-info on WETA as it pertains to the Smoke and Mirrors topic, the Detroit Public TV documentary-footage (link ref: Post #576) in the videos and the NIST footage at Internet Archive: About WETA: WETA is the flagship public broadcasting station in the nation's capital. WETA Television | WETA | Washington’s source for compelling television and inspiring classical music In addition to this post, prior 4um WETA info in this thread (through 9-28-12) can be found at the following locations: Because of manueverability problems due to the length of this thread (with 321 posts transpiring since the Smoke and Mirrors topic started at Post #350 and because the issue is also interfering as a rehash with discussions in another thread (Ref: start point there), I will be moving these reference materials to a new thread on the subject. Will link to it here for any further discussions when it is ready. ------- "They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
As a convenience and PC-functionality courtesy, please use this link for any continuing discussions on the Smoke and Mirrors videos-controversy topic. Edited to correct prior deletion. ------- "They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
More like no brainers. I don't know who you think you are fooling. God is always good!
What controversy? It's already been proven to be BS. Did you forget? Once this was in place the planes could be taken over by remote control and flown into the World Trade Center.
#2. To: tom007 (#0)
#3. To: tom007 (#0)
From day one the blame has been put at bin Laden and his people without real evidence
let me get this straight, you want this and have the power to do it, yet you let that other guy decide if you should? yep - why? cause the book told me to ... who wrote the book? well, he did ... the guy telling you what to do, wrote the book telling you to let him run your life? yes ... say, you want to buy a bridge?
~ the truth will set ya free, but only after it pisses ya off
~my place to rant
#4. To: Amandil (#3)
#5. To: Lod (#4)
Early in the day, Dan Rather called it a controlled demolition (as it clearly was to anyone with half a brain).
let me get this straight, you want this and have the power to do it, yet you let that other guy decide if you should? yep - why? cause the book told me to ... who wrote the book? well, he did ... the guy telling you what to do, wrote the book telling you to let him run your life? yes ... say, you want to buy a bridge?
~ the truth will set ya free, but only after it pisses ya off
~my place to rant
#6. To: tom007 (#0)
#7. To: Cynicom, Lod (#1)
Once this was in place the planes could be taken over by remote control and flown into the World Trade Center.
#8. To: Give Me Liberty (#7)
ALL of the Boeing 700 series aircraft since the late 60s, have been able to be flown remotely as the result of hijackings of that time. The concept was to be able to take control of a hijacked aircraft and safely fly it to a controlled airport where it could be safely landed, and the hijackers arrested, with the mil/gov. in total control. The individual(s) in the cockpit would have no control over the aircraft in any way. This was made possible by way of the AFSCS program. Theoretically we can take total control of any of these aircraft no matter where they are over the earth.
#9. To: Cynicom (#8)
#10. To: Cynicom (#8)
(Edited)
"Satan / Cheney in "08" 
#11. To: randge (#9)
#12. To: tom007 (#10)
#13. To: titorite (#6)
#14. To: Lod (#4)
#15. To: christine (#13)
(Edited)
except for the magic passports, of course.
"Satan / Cheney in "08"
#16. To: All (#14)
#17. To: tom007, 4 (#15)
#18. To: Lod (#17)
Dov S. Zakeim was pentagon comptroller stole(
"Satan / Cheney in "08"
#19. To: tom007 (#0)
(Edited)
#20. To: Cynicom, *9-11* (#1)
Uhhhh, nahhhhhhh.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#21. To: tom007 (#0)
(Edited)
#22. To: FormerLurker (#20)
Have you never heard of drones or UAVs?
#23. To: Cynicom (#22)
9/11 was flown by human hands.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#24. To: FormerLurker (#23)
Are you trying to say those idiots who couldn't fly a single engine Cessna flew better that day than seasoned airline pilots?
#25. To: tom007 (#0)
#26. To: All (#25)
#27. To: Cynicom (#24)
#28. To: christine, tom007, randge, Lod (#27)
#29. To: Cynicom (#28)
(Edited)
#30. To: randge, Christine, Lod (#29)
#31. To: christine (#27)
Also, in attendance at both seminars was a man named, Willie Rodriguez. He was the chief custodian at the World Trade Center buildings for 29 years. He said that he knew every inch of those 2 buildings. He also said that, for several weeks before 9/11, mysteriously he was not allowed to be on certain floors. This had never happened to him before. Rodriguez also stated that he, along with other workers, were in a basement before the planes hit the building; and that they heard and felt explosions going off in subbasements below them. He said that one explosion caused their feet to be lifted off the floor. He later concluded that those explosions served to soften-up the substructure which helped the buildings to collapse later.
"Satan / Cheney in "08"
#32. To: christine (#27)
But here is the critical question: what is the government's (not Silverstein's) official explanation for how and why Building 7 came down. I
"Satan / Cheney in "08"
#33. To: christine (#27)
Or, are we only good citizens if we swallow whole everything it feeds us? Is that a recipe for remaining free?
"Satan / Cheney in "08"
#34. To: Cynicom (#28)
"Satan / Cheney in "08"
#35. To: tom007 (#31)
Eye whitnesses are notoriously unreliable.
#36. To: tom007 (#32)
#37. To: randge (#29)
#38. To: christine, tom007 (#36)
#39. To: Cynicom (#30)
#40. To: Cynicom (#30)
Just one of the false trails that have obscured reality.
#41. To: randge (#39)
Honestly, Cyni, I don't claim to know what transpired that day, but I know when things don't add up.
#42. To: christine (#41)
"Satan / Cheney in "08"
#43. To: randge, Christine (#39)
What I don't find credible is the proposition that amateurs were at the controls of those Boeing aircraft.
#44. To: Cynicom (#43)
#45. To: Cynicom, *9-11* (#24)
I do not recall any flying that day that could not have been accomplished by anyone with rudimentary flying skills.
[Flight Academy] Staff members characterized Mr. Hanjour as polite, meek and very quiet. But most of all, the former employee said, they considered him a very bad pilot. "I'm still to this day amazed that he could have flown into the Pentagon," the former employee said. "He could not fly at all." [New York Times]
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#46. To: Cynicom, christine, tom007, randge, Lod (#28)
Using math and law of probability anyone can determine for themselves what happened. If one reads the government transcripts, they list names and home areas of over one hundred people on the ground that saw an aircraft fly into the Pentagon. There were so many eye witnesses that only about fifty were used as they were redundant.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#47. To: Cynicom, randge, Christine, Lod (#30)
Penetrating the Pentagon at low level did not take anyone with ten thousand flying hours
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#48. To: Cynicom (#30)
Just one of the false trails that have obscured reality.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#49. To: Cynicom (#43)
(Edited)
Also these men were not camel drivers picked up from the Sahara. The main one had degrees in mathematics and his father was a noted surgeon in Egypt
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#50. To: Cynicom, *9-11* (#30)
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#51. To: FormerLurker (#50)
Are you aware of the hard data concerning Mossad agents linked to the events of that day?
"Satan / Cheney in "08"
#52. To: Cynicom (#43)
(Edited)
What is so different from a crash landing with gear up or a ditching, than what those people did?
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#53. To: tom007 (#51)
And that they were let out of the US shows the depth of jewish corruption extant in the DOJ.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#54. To: FormerLurker, christine, (#49)
USA Today reporter Mike Walter was driving on Washington Boulevard when he witnessed the crash, which he recounted, "I looked out my window and I saw this plane, this jet, an American Airlines jet, coming. And I thought, 'This doesn't add up, it's really low.' And I saw it. I mean it was like a cruise missile with wings. It went right there and slammed right into the Pentagon"
#55. To: FormerLurker, randge, Christine (#52)
. Pretty damn good for a pilot who "couldn't fly at all", eh?
#56. To: Cynicom (#54)
(Edited)
And I saw it. I mean it was like a cruise missile with wings.
Later, Hanjour’s horrible English prompted one flight school, Jet Tech, to question the authenticity of his FAA-approved pilot’s license. Jet Tech was another school in the Phoenix area where Hanjour sought continuing instruction. Peggy Chevrette, operation manager at Jet Tech, later told FOX News: “I couldn’t believe that he had a license of any kind with the skills that he had.”[8] She explained that Hanjour’s English was so bad it took him five hours to complete an oral exam that normally should have taken about two.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#57. To: Cynicom (#55)
Again, check the FAA records, the pilot had been a professional commercial pilot since 1999.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#58. To: Cynicom (#55)
Again, check the FAA records, the pilot had been a professional commercial pilot since 1999.
In larger networks the organization can be complex with many methods to avoid detection, including clandestine cell systems. Often the players have never met. Case officers are stationed in foreign countries to recruit and to supervise intelligence agents, who in turn spy on targets in their countries where they are assigned. A spy need not be a citizen of the target country - hence does not automatically commit treason when operating within it. While the more common practice is to recruit a person already trusted with access to sensitive information, sometimes a person with a well-prepared synthetic identity, called a Legend in tradecraft, may attempt to infiltrate a target organization.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#59. To: FormerLurker, Christine, randge (#57)
Show me some documented proof of his flight experience.
#60. To: Cynicom (#55)
(Edited)
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#61. To: Cynicom (#59)
No, you need to do your own homework, it is sadly lacking.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#62. To: Cynicom (#59)
(Edited)
That information will give you the names of his instructors, the name of the flight school and the FAA examiners that certified him for a commercial license.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#63. To: Cynicom (#59)
If you desire to have the information, call or write to FAA HQ in Washington, they will be happy to provide you with the proper office for such information.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#64. To: Cynicom, randge (#22)
Have you never heard of drones or UAVs?
#65. To: Original_Intent, randge, Christine (#64)
9/11 was flown by human hands.
#66. To: Cynicom (#65)
imagine
"For my part, whatever anguish of spirit it may cost, I am willing to know the whole truth, to know the worst, and to provide for it.” ~ Patrick Henry
#67. To: wudidiz (#66)
#68. To: Cynicom (#67)
"For my part, whatever anguish of spirit it may cost, I am willing to know the whole truth, to know the worst, and to provide for it.” ~ Patrick Henry
#69. To: Cynicom, Original_Intent, randge, Christine (#65)
In testimony by FAA radar controllers who were watching the aircraft on radar, they stated they considered the aircraft to being flown by someone of superior piloting skill because of the maneuvers executed.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#70. To: wudidiz (#68)
There was no plane.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#71. To: FormerLurker (#70)
"For my part, whatever anguish of spirit it may cost, I am willing to know the whole truth, to know the worst, and to provide for it.” ~ Patrick Henry
#72. To: FormerLurker (#70)
"For my part, whatever anguish of spirit it may cost, I am willing to know the whole truth, to know the worst, and to provide for it.” ~ Patrick Henry
#73. To: All, *No Planers* (#72)
There were planes
"For my part, whatever anguish of spirit it may cost, I am willing to know the whole truth, to know the worst, and to provide for it.” ~ Patrick Henry
#74. To: wudidiz (#73)
I didn't see one.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#75. To: Cynicom, Original_Intent, randge, Christine (#65)
In testimony by FAA radar controllers who were watching the aircraft on radar, they stated they considered the aircraft to being flown by someone of superior piloting skill because of the maneuvers executed.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#76. To: FormerLurker (#74)
Just because YOU didn't see it doesn't mean it wasn't or isn't there.
"For my part, whatever anguish of spirit it may cost, I am willing to know the whole truth, to know the worst, and to provide for it.” ~ Patrick Henry
#77. To: wudidiz (#76)
Noone saw it. Except on tv.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#78. To: Cynicom (#55)
#79. To: wudidiz (#68)
That would all be true if....
"Satan / Cheney in "08"
#80. To: FormerLurker (#69)
atching the aircraft on radar, they stated they considered the aircraft to being flown by someone of superior piloting skill because of the maneuvers executed.
"Satan / Cheney in "08"
#81. To: FormerLurker (#70)
There was no plane.
"Satan / Cheney in "08"
#82. To: All (#81)
(Edited)
"Satan / Cheney in "08"
#83. To: Turtle (#78)
I tell all of them I'll give them 10,000 years and they'll never prove ONE of their hallucinations.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#84. To: wudidiz (#68)
There was no plane.
#85. To: tom007 (#80)
#86. To: tom007 (#0)
#87. To: FormerLurker, wudidiz, artisan, *9-11* (#50)
#88. To: tom007 (#80)
Yes, they assumed they were mil jets, not people movers.
#89. To: FormerLurker (#75)
And oh yeah, forgot to mention that the "pilot" was the same Hani Hanjour who couldn't fly a Cessna.
#90. To: tom007, FormerLurker, James_Deffenbach, Esso, christine (#32)
But here is the critical question: what is the government's (not Silverstein's) official explanation for how and why Building 7 came down. I
#91. To: Cynicom (#89)
Have you ever considered the possibility that what you believe is exactly what someone wants you to believe?????
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#92. To: Cynicom (#88)
The DNA for every person involved was obtained with exception of one small boy
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#93. To: Artisan (#87)
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#94. To: FormerLurker (#92)
And not one "hijacker's" DNA was found at the Pentagon.
#95. To: FormerLurker (#91)
I'm just looking at the facts Cyni. It's not a matter of belief, it's a matter of knowing what the facts are, and what is possible and what isn't.
#96. To: Cynicom (#95)
No one despises this corrupt government more than me.
#97. To: Cynicom, FormerLurker (#94)
#98. To: noone222 (#97)
#99. To: Cynicom (#94)
Matter of fact, the hi jackers were indeed found and identified. I cannot recall if it was four or six men that were identified that way.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#100. To: Cynicom (#95)
Millions of citizens support the endless wars in the Middle East because they know what the bad guys did on 9/11.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#101. To: Itistoolate, GreyLmist (#21)
http://southeastasianews.org/mai..._pyramid_mega_ritual.html
#102. To: AllTheKings'HorsesWontDoIt (#101)
"Birth of Jesus Christ September 11, 3 B.C."
#103. To: noone222 (#97)
Pentagram, I'd ask "where are the videos" clearly showing a commercial jet hitting it. ?
"Satan / Cheney in "08"
#104. To: noone222, Cynicom, All, *9-11* (#97)
One obvious fact is that hardly any video has surfaced even though the target area was one of the most secure in the UNIVERSE. Since the immediate subject is the Pentagram, I'd ask "where are the videos" clearly showing a commercial jet hitting it. ?
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#105. To: tom007 (#103)
They exist and if they showed a 787 the perps would have released them.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#106. To: noone222, Cynicom, tom007, *9-11* (#97)
(Edited)
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#107. To: Lod (#2)
OBL was never charged with any 9.11
#108. To: FormerLurker (#106)
the military
#109. To: BTP Holdings (#108)
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#110. To: FormerLurker (#105)
Flight 77 did NOT hit the Pentagon.
#111. To: BTP Holdings (#110)
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#112. To: FormerLurker (#109)
The corruption is at the very top, and there are apparently a good number of top officials in all branches of government who are totally and completely compromised.
#113. To: noone222, Cynicom, tom007, BTPHoldings, All, *9-11* (#104)
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#114. To: FormerLurker (#77)
It wasn't just captured on video by MANY news agencies, people in New York actually saw it happen live.
"For my part, whatever anguish of spirit it may cost, I am willing to know the whole truth, to know the worst, and to provide for it.” ~ Patrick Henry
#115. To: FormerLurker, To, noone222, Cynicom, tom007, BTPHoldings, All (#113)
#116. To: tom007 (#79)
"For my part, whatever anguish of spirit it may cost, I am willing to know the whole truth, to know the worst, and to provide for it.” ~ Patrick Henry
#117. To: Cynicom (#84)
wud..
"For my part, whatever anguish of spirit it may cost, I am willing to know the whole truth, to know the worst, and to provide for it.” ~ Patrick Henry
#118. To: tom007 (#0)
#119. To: Kamala (#118)
do not believe the governments official theory of what happened.
"Satan / Cheney in "08"
#120. To: wudidiz (#114)
You have what evidence that they "actually" saw it live?
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#121. To: Itistoolate (#115)
By way of Deception, thou shalt do war
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#122. To: wudidiz (#117)
good to see your able to entertain yourself over there, Cyni :)
#123. To: Cynicom (#122)
"Satan / Cheney in "08"
#124. To: tom007 (#123)
There are a LOT of questions here.
#125. To: Cynicom, tom007 (#124)
We gain absolutely nothing chasing shadows on 9/11, in fact it helps the criminals to obscure the entire event, just as the Supreme court obscured Pearl Harbor.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#126. To: AllTheKings'HorsesWontDoIt (#102)
"Birth of Jesus Christ September 11, 3 B.C."
#127. To: FormerLurker (#120)
if you bothered doing any sort of research into 9/11 you'd know that it's 99.8% likely that planes hit the WTC towers
"For my part, whatever anguish of spirit it may cost, I am willing to know the whole truth, to know the worst, and to provide for it.” ~ Patrick Henry
#128. To: FormerLurker (#120)
#129. To: Cynicom (#122)
(Edited)
None of the passengers and crew have ever appeared.
#130. To: noone222 (#129)
We've been bullshitted by the best bullshitters in the business.
#131. To: Cynicom (#130)
One hundred thirty posts. I charge by the post. hehehehehe
#132. To: noone222 (#131)
#133. To: Cynicom (#132)
Dont let it get around but Christine is very poor at paying.
#134. To: noone222 (#133)
#135. To: Kamala (#118)
Lastly, the Jersey Girls, who had family die that day, the very ones that forced the Bush administration to finally investigate that day,
"Satan / Cheney in "08"
#136. To: FormerLurker (#106)
One other thing about all this is the ongoing coverup. This is not just a Bush administration crime, it is a crime perpetrated by those who continue to act as if it were truly bin Laden who masterminded this thing, knowing full well that it's a huge lie, and having the power to bring those behind it to justice yet fail to do so.
"Satan / Cheney in "08"
#137. To: FormerLurker (#109)
The corruption is at the very top, and there are apparently a good number of top officials in all branches of government who are totally and completely compromised.
"Satan / Cheney in "08"
#138. To: tom007 (#135)
A charade from the git go.
#139. To: tom007 (#135)
And the 9-11 commission was never charged with finding out what happened, only how it could be prevented from happening again.
#140. To: Cynicom, tom007, All, *No Planers* (#138)
tom007: A charade from the git go.
#141. To: FormerLurker (#120)
it's 99.8% likely that planes hit the WTC towers,
#142. To: BTP Holdings (#141)
A Global Hawk flew those planes into the towers.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#143. To: FormerLurker (#142)
#144. To: FormerLurker (#142)
Er, no. The Global Hawk is a drone, and it MIGHT be what hit the Pentagon. Then again it might have been something else, such as a cruise missile painted like an AA 757.
#145. To: RickyJ (#144)
(Edited)
To not leave anything to chance I suspect they were military planes that were outfitted just for the purpose of this false flag event.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#146. To: GreyLmist, tom007, Cynicom, *No Planers*, *9-11* (#140)
tom007: A charade from the git go.
"For my part, whatever anguish of spirit it may cost, I am willing to know the whole truth, to know the worst, and to provide for it.” ~ Patrick Henry
#147. To: wudidiz, *9-11* (#127)
(Edited)
Well said, but what evidence do you have that planes hit the wtc?
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#148. To: FormerLurker (#147)
Entrance holes in the towers
"Satan / Cheney in "08"
#149. To: FormerLurker, *9-11* (#147)
Do you have any bonafide evidence that all of the witnesses are lying and that all of the impact videos are faked?
Little to no smoke damage seen where much would be expected.
#150. To: GreyLmist (#149)
Is it actually news to you that there is ample evidence online of alleged 9/11- witnesses lying, FL?
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#151. To: GreyLmist (#149)
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#152. To: FormerLurker, GreyLmist (#151)
Maybe there never were any towers, they were just fake images in all of the post cards of the NYC skyline,
"For my part, whatever anguish of spirit it may cost, I am willing to know the whole truth, to know the worst, and to provide for it.” ~ Patrick Henry
#153. To: wudidiz (#152)
Show me one video of an airplane strike that wasn't faked.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#154. To: wudidiz, GreyLmist, *9-11* (#152)
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#155. To: FormerLurker (#153)
news reports of that day where people described what they saw
"For my part, whatever anguish of spirit it may cost, I am willing to know the whole truth, to know the worst, and to provide for it.” ~ Patrick Henry
#156. To: wudidiz (#155)
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#157. To: wudidiz (#155)
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#158. To: wudidiz, *9-11* (#155)
(Edited)
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#159. To: FormerLurker (#156)
I call bullshit on that one.
"For my part, whatever anguish of spirit it may cost, I am willing to know the whole truth, to know the worst, and to provide for it.” ~ Patrick Henry
#160. To: wudidiz (#159)
(Edited)
It's the Harley guy. He's freaking famous. Get with the program. I offer him as evidence for your case. He started the "planes coming out of nowhere" rumour. Thank you for your participation.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#161. To: FormerLurker (#160)
the towers collapsed
"For my part, whatever anguish of spirit it may cost, I am willing to know the whole truth, to know the worst, and to provide for it.” ~ Patrick Henry
#162. To: wudidiz (#161)
Who said anything about a plane anyway?
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#163. To: wudidiz (#161)
the towers collapsed
"Satan / Cheney in "08"
#164. To: tom007, FormerLurker, wudidiz, *9-11* (#163)
Ya know, it really dosen't matter if it was a plane, UFO or drone or what ever - the buildings were packed with explosives and NYC and Israel have their fingerprints all over it.
Also the Odigo (sp) advance warnings were real - and broadcast in Hebrew to any who could understand that tongue knew to stay away.
Israeli Company Moves Out of WTC
QUOTE
The Zim-American Israeli Shipping Co. moves their North American headquarters from the 16th floor of the WTC to Norfolk, Virginia, one week before the 9/11 attacks. The Israeli government owns 49 percent of the company. [Virginian- Pilot, 9/4/2001] Zim announced the move and its date six months earlier. [Virginian-Pilot, 4/3/2001] More than 200 workers had just been moved out; about ten are still in the building making final moving arrangements on 9/11, but escape. [Jerusalem Post, 9/13/2001; Journal of Commerce, 10/18/2001] The move leaves only one Israeli company, ClearForest, with 18 employees, in the WTC on 9/11. The four or five employees in the building at the time manage to escape. [Jerusalem Post, 9/13/2001] One year later, a Zim ship is impounded while attempting to ship Israeli military equipment to Iran; it is speculated that this is done with the knowledge of Israel. [Agence France-Presse, 3/29/2002]
UNQUOTE
#165. To: GreyLmist (#164)
Planes didn't bring the Towers down or the Pentagon's newly reinforced wing.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#166. To: GreyLmist (#164)
It does matter if there were no planes for a number of reasons. M
"Satan / Cheney in "08"
#167. To: FormerLurker (#165)
(Edited)
Planes didn't bring the Towers down or the Pentagon's newly reinforced wing.
It was absolutely for effect, and it was also going to be used as the excuse for why the buildings came down.
-----------------------
Nobody here is saying they did. That doesn't mean they didn't use aircraft for effect however. And that doesn't mean every single reporter, camera man, bystander, and news agency fabricated "planes" that weren't there.
Without those planes being seen and filmed crashing into the buildings the false flag event of 9/11 would have not worked so well. It would have been too hard to convince even the sheeple that security was so lax at the towers that Muslims somehow got in there and planted all the explosives necessary to bring them down. Also without the planes hitting the buildings they would not have been able to control who can fly and who can't fly in this nation as easily. The TSA wouldn't have existed today if they didn't have those planes crash into the buildings.
#168. To: FormerLurker (#162)
"For my part, whatever anguish of spirit it may cost, I am willing to know the whole truth, to know the worst, and to provide for it.” ~ Patrick Henry
#169. To: tom007 (#163)
it really dosen't matter if it was a plane, UFO or drone or what ever
"For my part, whatever anguish of spirit it may cost, I am willing to know the whole truth, to know the worst, and to provide for it.” ~ Patrick Henry
#170. To: RickyJ, *No Planers* (#167)
Without those planes being seen and filmed crashing into the buildings the false flag event of 9/11 would have not worked so well.
being seen and filmed) crashing into the buildings the false flag event of 9/11 would have not worked so well.
"For my part, whatever anguish of spirit it may cost, I am willing to know the whole truth, to know the worst, and to provide for it.” ~ Patrick Henry
#171. To: All (#170)
"For my part, whatever anguish of spirit it may cost, I am willing to know the whole truth, to know the worst, and to provide for it.” ~ Patrick Henry
#172. To: All, *No Planers*, *9-11* (#171)
(Edited)
"For my part, whatever anguish of spirit it may cost, I am willing to know the whole truth, to know the worst, and to provide for it.” ~ Patrick Henry
#173. To: wudidiz (#168)
It is my opinion, from watching them, that ALL videos of a plane hitting the wtc are fake.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#174. To: wudidiz (#170)
Truth is important.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#175. To: tom007, *9-11* (#166)
The planes seem to be a cover for the demolitions.
#176. To: FormerLurker (#174)
#177. To: GreyLmist, wudidiz (#149)
Little to no smoke damage seen where much would be expected.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#178. To: GreyLmist (#176)
(Edited)
If truth is important to you, why did you hopscotch over the observations of anomolies at Post #149? Thanks for making my point, though, about plane- believers typically doing that.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#179. To: GreyLmist, tom007, , *9-11* (#175)
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#180. To: FormerLurker (#173)
WTF is wrong with you?
"For my part, whatever anguish of spirit it may cost, I am willing to know the whole truth, to know the worst, and to provide for it.” ~ Patrick Henry
#181. To: wudidiz (#180)
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#182. To: wudidiz (#170)
#183. To: wudidiz (#169)
(Edited)
t really dosen't matter if it was a plane, UFO or drone or what ever
"Satan / Cheney in "08"
#184. To: FormerLurker (#150)
(Edited)
Is it news to you that there are limits to what is probable and what isn't?
#185. To: All (#175)
Saw parts of a documentary on TLC called (iirc) "9/11 Emergency Room". A hospital that had practiced for disaster shortly before 9/11 set up triage under the WTC to treat the wounded. Seems to me a bizarre and most unsafe choice of location for that but that is what is being launched into the future as the moving history of that day.
A close but not exhaustive survey of prime-time schedules turned up several new specials on the attacks, all on cable. New to the United States, that is — some are leftover inventory, having been shown in Britain last year.
#186. To: RickyJ, *9-11* (#184)
(Edited)
Yep, simple logic says if there were no planes then there would have been many, not just a few, but many people proclaiming that they saw and heard no planes. Where are these people? No planers are not thinking about the illogical points in their positions.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#187. To: FormerLurker (#177)
Little to no smoke damage seen where much would be expected.
#188. To: FormerLurker (#186)
(Edited)
I HAVE read that survivors in the WTC actually saw the 2nd plane approach.
#189. To: FormerLurker (#186)
It is MUCH easier to take control of an aircraft remotely and fly it into a tower, than to pull off such a large scale act of deception, where the world believes jet airliners hit the towers, yet in reality they were created in a studio and broadcast to the world in unison at the exact proper time, in league with every news crew and witness in the City of New York.
#190. To: Cynicom, tom007, FormerLurker, BTP Holdings, RickyJ, wudidiz, All, *9-11* (#12)
The military has the most advanced "remote piloting" in the world.
General Keys: Well, you can control them, but for example, we missed shooting down a MiG-25 during the war because of the latency in the system. We had the Hellfire-armed Predator up and the MiG-25 was coming in to intercept and we had him locked up, but by the time we had fired the missile, he had started his turn and so he broke lock. The reason was there's about a several second delay in the latency.
#191. To: GreyLmist (#189)
You need to prove first that planes were used before asserting they were remote controlled.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#192. To: GreyLmist (#188)
And I have read alleged eyewitness testimony of a plane approach at the Pentagon.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#193. To: GreyLmist (#187)
Your responses have nothing to do with the observations listed. Reread them and try again.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#194. To: FormerLurker, *9-11*, *No Planers* (#142)
(Edited)
BTP Holdings: A Global Hawk flew those planes into the towers.
There are three basic versions of the 9/11 events. Although differences and/or overlapping may occur, the following three versions generally describe what most people believe:
#195. To: GreyLmist (#194)
Are you claiming that the Military couldn't or wouldn't disconnect a satelite link to over-ride a remote control hijacking from the ground?
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#196. To: GreyLmist (#194)
This, simply, is the REAL version, backed by actual evidence, Laws of Physics, and common sense
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#197. To: GreyLmist (#190)
General Keys: Well, you can control them, but for example, we missed shooting down a MiG-25 during the war because of the latency in the system. We had the Hellfire-armed Predator up and the MiG-25 was coming in to intercept and we had him locked up, but by the time we had fired the missile, he had started his turn and so he broke lock. The reason was there's about a several second delay in the latency.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#198. To: FormerLurker, *9-11* (#191)
You need to first prove planes were NOT involved, as that is what was reported, witnessed, and recorded on video.
#199. To: FormerLurker (#192)
not only is it unlikely that a flight school washout could fly a 757 to begin with, but it is physically impossible for a 757 to fly at a speed of over 500 mph while its engines were skimming the Pentagon lawn by a couple of feet while the nose was kept level in order to avoid crashing into the lawn, even though a nose down pitch would be the only way to prevent the aircraft from climbing.
#200. To: FormerLurker (#195)
(Edited)
Are you saying the military/NORAD/(name the appropriate alphabet soup agency) would disconnect its own link controlling the aircraft?
#201. To: GreyLmist (#199)
Do you really think it's possible to fly those maneuvers by remote control?
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#202. To: GreyLmist (#200)
(Edited)
So you're claiming a mass Military conspiracy as if none of them would move so but a civilian, mass-media conspiracy is "a bridge too far" for you? What's your explanation for the only thing hit by alleged Flt. 93 being the ground in Pennsylvania?
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#203. To: GreyLmist, *9-11* (#198)
The burden of proof isn't really on No Planes researchers to prove a negative 4 times. Nevertheless, that nearly impossible mathematical feat has already been demonstrated many times, here and elsewhere, for those willing to review the technical analysis of Videographers as well as that of Architects and Engineers, etc. Perhaps you're under your mistaken impression because of G.W. Bush's ploy to invade Iraq by demanding evidence of non-existent WMDs there. The burden of proof about planes is on those making the assertions of planes -- the government and those like you who extrapolate from it.
After the steel structure was in place, the crew attached the outer "skin" to the perimeter -- anodized aluminum, pre-cut into large panels.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#204. To: GreyLmist, All (#196)
This, simply, is the REAL version, backed by actual evidence, Laws of Physics, and common sense
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#205. To: GreyLmist (#198)
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#206. To: FormerLurker (#201)
(Edited)
Do you really think it's possible to fly those maneuvers by remote control?
#207. To: FormerLurker, GreyLmist, *No Planers* (#181)
Explain to me ONE actual piece of evidence that proves no planes hit the towers. I'll be waiting...
"For my part, whatever anguish of spirit it may cost, I am willing to know the whole truth, to know the worst, and to provide for it.” ~ Patrick Henry
#208. To: wudidiz (#207)
#209. To: FormerLurker, *9-11* (#202)
NBC/CNN/Fox didn't plan the 9/11 wargames. NORAD (along with certain key civilian and military planners) did.
As far as Flight 93, if my hypothesis that a chemical agent such as nerve gas was used to incapacitate the crews of the other "hijacked" aircraft, perhaps the gas failed to release properly and didn't reach the cabin, thus requiring some "intervention" on the part of Cheney to order a shoot down so as to hide any evidence of what had actually gone on.
10:10 to 10:15 (approximately): Vice President Cheney, unaware that Flight 93 has crashed, authorizes fighter aircraft to engage the inbound plane, reported to be 80 miles (129 km) from Washington, based not on radar (from which it has disappeared) but speed and trajectory projections.
#210. To: FormerLurker (#203)
Your little GIF file tells a lie, in that the outer shell of the WTC towers was made of ALUMINUM, NOT STEEL.
After the steel structure was in place, the crew attached the outer "skin" to the perimeter -- anodized aluminum, pre-cut into large panels.
#211. To: FormerLurker (#205)
You see GL, I might SUGGEST and HYPOTHESIZE that a nerve agent or some other sort of incapacitating gas was used to neutralize the crew and passengers, allowing for the actual airliners to be flown to secure locations either remotely or by an individual onboard who had a gas mask.
#212. To: FormerLurker (#204)
Name me any law of physics that backs up your allegations. That, and provide ANY evidence of what you claim. You know, witnesses, actual video proving no plane hit, etc.
In [Gerard] Holmgren’s view, the perpetrators had to weigh the dangers inherent in their two main options: either use real passenger planes or use missiles (or some other similar method or combination of methods of creating an explosion) and convince people that the missiles were planes.
#213. To: Cynicom, wudidiz, FormerLurker, GreyLmist, christine (#208)
wud...
#214. To: HOUNDDAWG (#213)
#215. To: FormerLurker (#203)
(Edited)
For starters, for your "idea" to be feasible, ALL network news stations, foreign news crews, and any bystander who happened to be looking at the towers would ALL had to have decided beforehand that they were going to hoodwink the world and produce the biggest fraudulent story of all time.
A cast of thousands, hundreds or even dozens was not needed to to pull off this media deception.
#216. To: Cynicom (#214)
Hound...
#217. To: FormerLurker, *9-11* (#203)
Care to explain how those external fireballs were created, or were those "fake" too?
And BTW, care to post anything from Architects and Engineers for Truth which states there were no aircraft involved in the 9/11 attacks?
#218. To: HOUNDDAWG, Cynicom (#216)
(Edited)
#219. To: GreyLmist (#218)
I can kind of see how he may have thunk up his flying telephone poles theory
#220. To: Cynicom (#208)
wud...
"For my part, whatever anguish of spirit it may cost, I am willing to know the whole truth, to know the worst, and to provide for it.” ~ Patrick Henry
#221. To: wudidiz (#220)
In the meantime, I'll wait for the movie.
#222. To: Cynicom (#221)
Good morning young man...
"For my part, whatever anguish of spirit it may cost, I am willing to know the whole truth, to know the worst, and to provide for it.” ~ Patrick Henry
#223. To: FormerLurker, GreyLmist (#205)
every single person who witnessed the events is in on the conspiracy
"For my part, whatever anguish of spirit it may cost, I am willing to know the whole truth, to know the worst, and to provide for it.” ~ Patrick Henry
#224. To: All (#223)
"For my part, whatever anguish of spirit it may cost, I am willing to know the whole truth, to know the worst, and to provide for it.” ~ Patrick Henry
#225. To: GreyLmist (#206)
Are we in agreement then that the alleged plane manuevers at the Pentagon couldn't have been flown by remote control?
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#226. To: wudidiz (#207)
The burden of proof isn't really on No Planes researchers
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#227. To: GreyLmist (#209)
So? The Military conducts wargames often. Red Team, Blue Team and what have you -- with or without civilian participation.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#228. To: GreyLmist (#209)
Timeline for the day of the September 11 attacks - Wikipedia
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#229. To: GreyLmist (#210)
Are you joking? The WTC buildings were made of steel by the tons.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#230. To: GreyLmist (#211)
You do realize, don't you, that they didn't all describe seeing or hearing planes?
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#231. To: GreyLmist (#212)
Every law of physics backs up my allegations, afaik.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#232. To: wudidiz (#224)
Here's your stupid evidence:
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#233. To: FormerLurker (#226)
(Edited)
So your "evidence" relies on false information. Why do you need to lie wud? Have any information that ISN'T false concerning your theory?
#234. To: FormerLurker (#229)
As far as an object travelling at high velocity, have you ever shot a gun? Lead is softer than steel, yet a high power rifle bullet such as a .308 will slice through steel as if it were butter.
#235. To: GreyLmist (#211)
As I'm sure you know, it is not quite possible for the alleged plane maneuvers at the Pentagon to have been flown by remote control. Your own ground effect analysis should confirm that for you.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#236. To: titorite (#234)
Also this is incorrect.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#237. To: FormerLurker (#236)
(Edited)
So you are wrong.
#238. To: titorite (#234)
DU rounds would of never been engineered
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#239. To: FormerLurker (#235)
I've never said that it isn't possible, because it IS possible.
#240. To: FormerLurker (#238)
Oh and BTW, DU rounds were invented in order to penetrate through heavily armored vehicles such as tanks.
#241. To: titorite, wudidiz, GreyLmist, *9-11* (#240)
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#242. To: titorite (#240)
As good as of a digression as that is I would still point out that all the planes in the news footage lack any discernible wake....
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#243. To: titorite (#233)
Why is that the remains of four planes do not add up to the mass of one whole plane? Then to get really technical their is the whole luggage, people, black box aspect....
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#244. To: titorite (#233)
Did you know you can not lose US planes in US air space? That is correct it was impossible in 2001 and it is still impossible today... Like a physical impossibility thanks to the structure of the air traffic control system. SO when the Official version states that the planes were lost for awhile.... total bull. .....And anyone that knows anything about air traffic should know this... so why include this lie on the conspirators part?
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#245. To: titorite (#233)
The impact at shanksville? Where is that plane? The earth did not absorb it... the US military did not shoot it down... Their was no plane in shanksville. Just an old abandoned strip mine with an ordinance crater. No wings, no bodies, no plane.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#246. To: titorite (#233)
The pentagon.... What happened at the pentagon was impossible for commercial air craft....and even military craft would have a hard time doing it.... And again , lack of plane parts, luggage, people.... Did I mention the hole at the pentagon is not big enough to fit a plane?
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#247. To: titorite (#233)
Then their is New york....the one place we all saw planes.... on our TV sets. And we saw it over and over and over..... so it must be true. After all we saw it on TV and the government said it happened this way and I am not aware of the government ever using TV to lie to the public.... (Pardon me a moment while I put out this pants fire)
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#248. To: FormerLurker (#241)
#249. To: titorite (#233)
Go ahead... re-watch those vids.... Find the wake vortex... find the helicopter blades that don't disturb the smoke.... find the painful ugly truth.... it is sicker than most are willing to admit...
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#250. To: titorite (#248)
I mean do you even dare touch the fact that many different broadcasts shown many different trajectories of the second plane impact? Not every trajectory can be the real one (if their was a real one) so one must agree that at least some of that footage was fake.... preplanned images meant to coerce an emotional response.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#251. To: titorite (#248)
Keep your eyes on the smoke when watching a vid.... watch for that wake.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#252. To: FormerLurker (#242)
What do you mean "wake"? Boats leave wakes, not planes.
#253. To: titorite (#252)
Did you tell someone else here to learn physics buster?
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#254. To: FormerLurker (#253)
Show me a vid where the plane flies through smoke smartass.
#255. To: titorite (#252)
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#256. To: titorite (#254)
gave you three different links already....the nasa link in particular should be good and instructive... Not my fault if you wont click a link.....
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#257. To: FormerLurker (#255)
So you're trying to say that the hijacked aircraft were NOT lost on radar at anytime during their flights, and that FAA controllers knew exactly where they were at all times, eh?
#258. To: FormerLurker (#256)
Well no shit, it WOULDN'T have if it didn't fly through smoke.
#259. To: titorite (#258)
(Edited)
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#260. To: titorite (#258)
Fire does not stop the wake vortex of a plane... AGAIN IF A PLANE CRASHES ITS WAKE VORTEX WILL FOLLOW IT INTO THE FIRE AND SWIRL IT UNTIL THEIR IS NO MORE FIRE OR THE WAKE DISSIPATES..
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#261. To: titorite (#257)
IT'S CALLED A FAIL SAFE and if you had looked more into the procedures of Air Traffic Control then you would know this already.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#262. To: FormerLurker (#259)
So let's see. You believe that all the news reporters, camera crews, bystanders, firemen, police, television networks (US and foreign), conspired to fabricate a tale of planes striking the towers. They produced footage fabricated in a studio, and they all played along with the lie in real time as events unfolded.
#263. To: FormerLurker (#261)
(Edited)
So you continue to insist that FAA radar is flawless and that there is ZERO possibility of losing an aircraft at all, even for the slightest moment, correct?
#264. To: titorite (#237)
You seem to think the a bullet can go through anything... It can not... also the planes were flying at around 500 MPH........ significantly slower than your average bullet.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#265. To: titorite (#257)
[edit] Deficiencies
[edit] Mode A
[edit] Mode C
[edit] Fruit
[edit] Garble
[edit] Synchronous garble
[edit] Capture
[edit] Antenna
.jpg)
.jpg){kind=small}
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#266. To: titorite (#262)
OK I can no longer say you are incorrect.... Now you are just lying to be a jerk.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#267. To: titorite (#262)
(Edited)
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#268. To: titorite (#262)
The following is to provide some basic background information on how the FAA radar system and aircraft transponders to better understand "Holes in the Radar".
http://www.the-movement.com/Radar/Radar.htm
How Radar Works
Radio waves are transmitted into the air, reflected by an object in the path of the beam and received by the radar antenna. The object can be a plane, rain, terrain (mountains, hills), tall buildings, etc. The range is determined by measuring the time it takes (at the speed of light) for the radio wave to go out to the object and then return to the receiving antenna. The direction of a detected object from a radar site is determined by the position of the rotating antenna when the reflected portion of the radio wave is received.
Reflected radio waves are shown on a radarscope as "blip". Its called a target.
FAA Radar System
The FAA has two basic types of surveillance radar systems:
1) Airport Surveillance Radar (ASR)
ASR provides relatively short- range radar coverage in the general vicinity of an airport for handling terminal area traffic. It can precisely determine aircraft locations on a radarscope. The ASR can also be used as an instrument approach aid. ASR is not important with regards to the flights on 9/11.
2) Air Route Surveillance Radar (ARSR)
ARSR is a long-range radar system designed primarily to provide a display of aircraft locations over large areas. It shows the range and angle from the radar of a target. It does not show the altitude. ARSR is also called primary radar.
Primary radar transmits a signal (radio waves) from the radar antenna and this signal is reflected or "bounced back" from an object (such as an aircraft). This reflected signal is then displayed as a "target" or a "blip" on the controller's radarscope.
ARSR is very important with regards to the flights on 9/11.
Air Traffic Control Radar Beacon System (ATCRBS)
Transponders are also called beacons.
ATCRBS (pronounced at-crabs) has three main components:
1) The Interrogator. In the ATCRBS, the interrogator, a radar beacon transmitter-receiver, scans in synchronism with the primary radar and transmits radio signals which request all transponders within range to reply. This is called secondary radar. The secondary radar antenna is a small radar that sits above the big primary radar antenna. The replies are then combined with the primary returns (the radarscope "blips") and both are displayed on the same radarscope.
For all commerical aircraft the blip is labeled with the transponder code (4 digits) and the altitude of the aircraft. Private planes may respond only with the transponder code.
2) The Transponder. This radar beacon transmitter-receiver is in the aircraft. It automatically receives the signals from the interrogator and replies with a code. These replies are independent of, and much stronger than a primary radar return (the "blip").
3) The Radarscope. The radarscope used by the controller displays returns from both the primary radar system and the ATCRBS. These returns, called targets, are what the controller refers to in the control and separation of traffic.
Important Note: Secondary radar has greater range than primary radar. This means that when an aircraft is beyond primary radar range it may be within secondary radar range -- producing no return (no "blip") on the radarscope -- but can receive transponder information.
Transponder Information
Commercial aircraft transponders have three modes used in the USA:
1) Mode A: The 4-digit code which identifies the flight. The FAA assigns the code for each flight. The pilot enters the code into the transponder before takeoff.
2) Mode C: Altitude information. The transponder receives altitude information from the aircraft's instruments. The altitude information is calculated automatically. Altitude data is important to maintain vertical seperation between aircraft. (Note: I was in an airliner that had a close call with another airliner which passed only 1000 feet directly underneath my plane at a right angle. One or both flights were off course. Thats why vertical seperation is important.)
3) Mode S: Other data. A variety of information can be transmitted to the FAA using this mode. More information on Mode S will be posted later.
Commercial aircraft always transmit Mode A and Mode C together -- providing the 4-digit flight code and altitude data.
How the Plane Swaps Were Made
When an aircraft is beyond primary radar range, the FAA air traffic controller (or military radar operator) cannot "see" the aircraft. There is no radar return. No "blip" on the radarscope. But, it may receive the transponder information. Turn off the transponder and the plane disappears. If the airplane is beyond secondary radar range also, the controller receives no transponder information. The plane disappears.
Three of the planes on 9/11 entered some of the very few areas in the northeast USA where there is no primary radar coverage. These two "holes in the radar" were the closest to the three takeoff airports (Newark, Boston Logan, Dulles).
It is unknown if secondary radar covered the "holes". However, if a transponder is turned off when a plane is in the "hole", the plane "disappears".
The three planes entered the "holes" and could not be "seen" by FAA radars. Then the transponders were turned off and the planes completely disappeared. Thats when the planes were swapped. Also, there were long radar holes that would allow the approach of the drones to effect the plane swaps.
Thats why Flight 11 from Boston (target: WTC 1), Flight 93 from Newark (target: unknown, crashed in Pennsylvania) and Flight 175 from Dulles (target: Pentagon) flew so far to the west -- they had to get into the radar holes for the plane swaps.
Flight 175 from Boston (target WTC 2) did not fly so far west into any of the radar holes. It changed transponder codes once, perhaps twice. It is not clear how the plane swap was made, except that it switched off its transponder very close to Flight 93 before 93 was "hijacked".
More to come ...
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#269. To: FormerLurker (#264)
As far as a 767, which weighs roughly 182,000 lbs empty, 395,000 lbs fully loaded, travelling at 500 mph, that's a LOT of kinetic energy. It's enough energy to pierce through a hybrid of aluminum, glass, concrete, and steel columns.
#270. To: FormerLurker (#267)
(Edited)
#271. To: titorite (#237)
The answers to the mystery of the aircraft's disappearance begin with the fact that the hijacking took place in an area served by only one type of radar, FAA officials confirmed.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#272. To: titorite (#270)
Ah man..... now you are just spamming bullshit about radars.... I doubt you read a single word of any of it... Just copypasta because you wanna be a lazy rude dumb ass.......Too busy knowing it all to contemplate anything outside the TV Box parameters..
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#273. To: titorite (#270)
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#274. To: titorite (#270)
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#275. To: FormerLurker (#271)
#276. To: titorite, *9-11* (#270)
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#277. To: titorite (#275)
Christ on a crutch STOP FUCKING SPAMMING you fucking jerk
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#278. To: titorite, All (#275)
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#279. To: FormerLurker (#277)
(Edited)
Ah, did I hit a nerve you stupid little shit? What's the matter, your Mossad friends are going to be displeased with you and you won't get your bonus this month?
#280. To: titorite (#279)
What strikes a nerve is a poster I thought to be educated swallowing and regurgitating propaganda...
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#281. To: All, *9-11* (#279)
Each radar station generates a wide conus where all airborne objects are detected. The diagram depicts a horizontal cut through all these conusses at 5000 ft. Everything being at 5000 ft outside the orange and purple areas is not visible on radar screens.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#282. To: FormerLurker (#280)
#283. To: FormerLurker (#276)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=814rcm4KC5w
#284. To: FormerLurker (#276)
(Edited)
#285. To: RickyJ (#284)
(Edited)
Those that want to call that fake, despite not having hardly any witnesses to back up their theory are just plain nuts or are not really truthers and are just trying to make the truth movement look bad. I suspect it is the latter.
#286. To: titorite (#282)
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#287. To: RickyJ (#284)
Those that want to call that fake, despite not having hardly any witnesses to back up their theory are just plain nuts or are not really truthers and are just trying to make the truth movement look bad. I suspect it is the latter.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#288. To: titorite (#283)
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#289. To: titorite (#285)
#290. To: titorite (#269)
(Edited)
A plane is a big hollow lump.
0.5 * (300,000 lbs * 733)2 = 24,178,005,000,000,000 foot pounds. That's a bit more than 24 quadrillion foot pounds, or 2.4 x 1016 in engineering form.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#291. To: titorite, RIckyJ (#285)
(Edited)
Their were enough lives for one full plane... one full plane went else where.... god rest their souls. That crew passenger manifest got split up in paperwork and assigned to four fictitious paper planes.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#292. To: FormerLurker (#291)
(Edited)
#293. To: FormerLurker, *9-11* (#291)
So you're now saying that the airlines were in it too?
#294. To: FormerLurker (#288)
(Edited)
The "little helicopters" were NOT "flying through the smoke" genius, they were flying near it. Watch again and point out the time stamp where what you claim actually occurs.
#295. To: FormerLurker, titorite, wudidiz, GreyLmist, *9-11* (#241)
So all these people are lying, eh?
"For my part, whatever anguish of spirit it may cost, I am willing to know the whole truth, to know the worst, and to provide for it.” ~ Patrick Henry
#296. To: titorite, FormerLurker (#252)
You seem to have a closed made up mind and choose to exist here for the soul sake of argument against that which challenges your made up mind.
"For my part, whatever anguish of spirit it may cost, I am willing to know the whole truth, to know the worst, and to provide for it.” ~ Patrick Henry
#297. To: RickyJ, *9-11* (#293)
#298. To: titorite, wudidiz, RickyJ, FormerLurker, All, *9-11* (#297)
#299. To: GreyLmist (#297)
#300. To: FormerLurker, *9-11*, *No Planers* (#268)
There is evidence [my note: that two of] the alleged flights were not scheduled that day. If they were not scheduled how could anyone book a flight on them?
by Morgan Reynolds, Ph.D. was Gate 26 or 32 used for the unscheduled flight 11?
#301. To: RickyJ, GreyLmist (#299)
There is not enough evidence to say there were no planes, you have to stretch the limits of technology and people control too far for that to be a serious consideration.
I won't be commenting on this again.
"For my part, whatever anguish of spirit it may cost, I am willing to know the whole truth, to know the worst, and to provide for it.” ~ Patrick Henry
#302. To: GreyLmist, FormerLurker, titorite, RickyJ, Cynicom, HOUNDDAWG, randge, tom007, Original_Intent, christine, *9-11*, *No Planers*, *Black Ops - Psyops*, *Out There* (#300)
"For my part, whatever anguish of spirit it may cost, I am willing to know the whole truth, to know the worst, and to provide for it.” ~ Patrick Henry
#303. To: wudidiz (#302)
(Edited)
No Boeing 767 could attain that speed [540 mph] at 1000 feet
#304. To: wudidiz (#302)
#305. To: Cynicom (#304)
#306. To: randge (#305)
#307. To: randge, wudidiz (#305)
#308. To: Cynicom (#306)
(Edited)
Check fully authenticated by crew and black box that a B707 flew on its back and in vertical dive that exceeded ALL parameters of the aircraft
#309. To: wudidiz (#302)
No Boeing 767 could attain that speed at 1000 feet
"Satan / Cheney in "08"
#310. To: randge (#308)
#311. To: Cynicom (#310)
#312. To: randge, wudidiz (#311)
The questions raised have nothing whatever to do logically with who raised them.
#313. To: Cynicom (#312)
#314. To: randge, wudidiz (#313)
Forget Lear.
#315. To: Cynicom (#314)
#316. To: randge (#315)
Listen to what PILOTS have to say that have time in these aircraft (toward the end of this video).
#317. To: RickyJ (#293)
Anyone with a camcorder pointing at the south tower that day who saw it explode with no plane hitting it would have proved it was a hoax. No videos of that exist today even though there were many people with cam-corders that day filming the North Tower after it was hit. Surely some of them were filming from the South and would have caught the explosion on the side of the South tower with no plane hitting it, but there is no such video that I know of. The planners of 9/11 would not have risked this possibility when it is so much easier to just crash a plane into the building for real.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#318. To: titorite (#294)
You are lying again or you simply did not pay enough attention. Which is it.
0:58 small plane appears from left of screen travelling to the right
1:00 airliner approaching from right travelling left
1:01 airliner disappears from view as it impacts South tower
1:02 small plane disappears behind North tower
1:03 helicopter appears from right travelling left in front of smoke plume
1:13 helicopter travels out of view to left
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#319. To: GreyLmist (#298)
In one it flies right to left over the water towards the South Tower through a clear sky, with smoke from the North Tower moving away from it towards the left of the screen. In another broadcast, the plane image is still moving right to left towards the South Tower but the smoke is moving over it towards the right side of the screen.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#320. To: GreyLmist (#300)
the [Pentagon] aircraft performed an acrobatic 270 degree (or 330 degree according to The 9/11 Commission Report) dive from 7,000 feet (an altitude known to the FAA despite the transponder off)
The following description of American Airline Flight 77 is based on data from the flight data recorder (FDR) recovered from the crash site, as well as radar data obtained from the Federal Aviation Administration's Air Route Traffic Control Centers, approach control at Washington Dulles Airport, and the U.S. Air Force 84th Radar Evaluation Squadron.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#321. To: wudidiz (#302)
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#322. To: Cynicom, randge, wudidiz (#310)
John Lear is a crackpot
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#323. To: FormerLurker (#319)
(Edited)
In one it flies right to left over the water towards the South Tower through a clear sky, with smoke from the North Tower moving away from it towards the left of the screen. In another broadcast, the plane image is still moving right to left towards the South Tower but the smoke is moving over it towards the right side of the screen.
#324. To: GreyLmist (#323)
0:14 and 1:44 of the video
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#325. To: FormerLurker (#320)
not only did military radar track the aircraft near DC, but Dulles approach control radar tracked it. Airport approach control radar is capable of determining altitude without the use of the transponder, and most likely the military radar was capable of it as well.
#326. To: FormerLurker (#324)
#327. To: GreyLmist (#325)
So, the transponders off mystique about 9/11 is hype and we can probably dispense with the radar gap contentions too because the Military was capable of all such tracking? -- yes or no.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#328. To: FormerLurker (#327)
#329. To: GreyLmist (#326)
I'm not convinced from your statement that simply a different viewing point perspective explains whether the direction of the smoke is moving over the plane or away from it in the opposite direction and those aren't the only examples of a difference in smoke trajectories as compared to the alleged plane.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#330. To: Cynicom (#328)
When I retired, Andrews was FAA, no military involved in the DC area.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#331. To: GreyLmist (#190)
The reason was there's about a several second delay in the latency.
#332. To: FormerLurker (#330)
113th Wing D.C. Air National Guard
#333. To: BTP Holdings (#332)
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#334. To: FormerLurker (#333)
(Edited)
At Andrews?
#335. To: BTP Holdings (#334)
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#336. To: FormerLurker (#318)
(Edited)
#337. To: FormerLurker (#330)
Don't know about that one Cyni...
#338. To: All (#336)
#339. To: titorite (#336)
(Edited)
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#340. To: Cynicom (#337)
FAA staffed Andrews way back when I was a pup.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#341. To: FormerLurker (#329)
(Edited)
Assuming the top of the image represents north, the first clip was filmed from somewhere in line with the Verizon building, with the smoke blowing south. The second clip was filmed from a westerly direction in line with WFC 2 (left of the image), with the smoke blowing to the south as well.
#342. To: FormerLurker (#340)
airport control radar in place, correct?
#343. To: GreyLmist (#341)
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#344. To: GreyLmist, titorite, All, *9-11* (#329)
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#345. To: Cynicom (#307)
dark side of the moon
#346. To: RickyJ, Cynicom (#345)
One side of the moon is not always dark.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#347. To: FormerLurker (#343)
(Edited)
#348. To: GreyLmist (#347)
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#349. To: FormerLurker (#344)
If they were relatively far away, the speed traveled would have been quite fast, so it MAY have been military aircraft.
#350. To: FormerLurker (#343)
(Edited)
Find me even one video where the smoke is not moving in the direction stated.
#351. To: All (#350)
#352. To: titorite (#349)
IF you see propaganda stop it right away and alert your fellow citizens to the danger.
#353. To: All (#351)
#354. To: RickyJ (#352)
Well I better alert my fellow citizens to your propaganda then. You have been spreading propaganda that Trayvon Martin was killed in cold blood by a racist despite even his mother acknowledging that it was an accident. If you think for one second his mother would say it was a accident if she thought it was her son screaming on those tapes then you aren't thinking clearly to say the least.
#355. To: titorite (#349)
I dare say you have looked a bit closer... I mean you have admitted to alot of mistakes.... I did too before I accepted the truth of the matter.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#356. To: titorite (#354)
Aren't you the biggest pole smoker in the universe....
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#357. To: titorite (#353)
Oh yeah can anyone help with an embed?
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#358. To: titorite, RickyJ, ALL, *9-11* (#353)
(Edited)
www.youtube.com/watch?v=DkzfKRe0gbc
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#359. To: titorite (#351)
Here is one more... I think this one might be better... IT addresses the trajectories ....
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#360. To: titorite (#353)
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#361. To: titorite (#349)
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#362. To: titorite (#349)
IF you see propaganda stop it right away and alert your fellow citizens to the danger.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#363. To: FormerLurker (#348)
See post #344, it's a full analysis of the posted clips and observations.
#364. To: titorite (#353)
www.youtube.com/watch?v=NnhDqOJh_28
#365. To: titorite, RickyJ, *Out There* (#354)
their are plenty of other places to talk about trayvon martin...
#366. To: FormerLurker (#358)
www.youtube.com/watch?v=DkzfKRe0gbc
#367. To: All, *9-11* (#366)
(Edited)
#368. To: BTP Holdings, FormerLurker, *9-11* (#334)
(Edited)
Post #332
FL: 113th Wing D.C. Air National Guard
FL: At Andrews?
#369. To: GreyLmist (#363)
I suspect that the WTC-1 smoke- plume would be moving towards the top of your map (as it's posted here).
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#370. To: No planners (#368)
#371. To: GreyLmist (#363)
(Edited)
Even turning the map so that the pictured plane approaching WTC- 2 looks to be flying in from the right of my screen with the smoke-plume moving leftward away from it (as in the first vid-example at 0:14), that doesn't help me to see a matching camera-angle for the smoke moving over the plane and to the right in the second example at 1:44 --
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#372. To: RickyJ (#370)
(Edited)
You have been fooled to make the 9/11 movement look like a bunch of nuts with edited videos made after 9/11.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#373. To: RickyJ, FormerLurker, titorite, *9-11* (#366)
(Edited)
www.youtube.com/watch?v=DkzfKRe0gbc
#374. To: FormerLurker (#371)
#375. To: GreyLmist (#373)
#376. To: All (#375)
#377. To: GreyLmist, RickyJ, titorite, *9-11* (#373)
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#378. To: GreyLmist, titorite (#373)
(Edited)
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#379. To: RickyJ (#375)
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#380. To: FormerLurker (#361)
You see tit, the problem with you is that you depend on other people's doctored videos to justify your beliefs. I can view the original videos and see not only what happened, but prove that you ARE full of shit.
#381. To: titorite (#380)
The videos are not doctored...
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#382. To: titorite, GreyLmist, wudidiz, *9-11* (#380)
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#383. To: FormerLurker (#382)
Do you guys get paid for this favor you did Israel?
#384. To: FormerLurker, Cynicom, titorite, GreyLmist, wudidiz, *9-11* (#382)
#385. To: Cynicom, randge (#383)
The government loves muddied waters.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#386. To: FormerLurker (#385)
(Edited)
#387. To: Cynicom (#383)
FormerLurker
"Satan / Cheney in "08"
#388. To: FormerLurker (#385)
Mossad agents were involved, thus Israel was involved, and that is what is usually totally ignored. It will continue to be ignored till there is a load enough collective voice screaming it.
#389. To: Cynicom, FormerLurker (#383)
FL... Do you guys get paid for this favor you did Israel?
"For my part, whatever anguish of spirit it may cost, I am willing to know the whole truth, to know the worst, and to provide for it.” ~ Patrick Henry
#390. To: randge (#303)
Personally, I leave this aspect of the topic alone when discussing it with regular folks, because it causes them to back away slowly checking as they go to see if there are any blunt weapons within my reach.
"For my part, whatever anguish of spirit it may cost, I am willing to know the whole truth, to know the worst, and to provide for it.” ~ Patrick Henry
#391. To: wudidiz (#389)
Please. Get real.
#392. To: FormerLurker, RickyJ, wudidiz, titorite, *9-11* (#382)
(Edited)
Congratulations to the three of you. After 11 days and 381 posts, you've managed to sidetrack the topic of this thread, which is Israeli involvement in the 9/11 attacks and the arrest of Mossad agents that day found with tons of explosives near the George Washington Bridge, as well as how the buildings were wired with explosives and detonated.
#393. To: GreyLmist (#392)
(Edited)
#394. To: All (#393)
(Edited)
#395. To: GreyLmist (#392)
(Edited)
you have no remote control evidence
#396. To: All (#395)
The Lone Gunman's 'PILOT' Episode
#397. To: FormerLurker (#379)
Some people just believe what they wish to believe, and once that belief becomes part of their world view, NOTHING will change it, facts, witnesses, evidence, logic, and reason be damned.
#398. To: All (#397)
#399. To: RickyJ (#394)
(Edited)
The Mossad agents that were arrested from the "moving company" were freed and then went straight to Israel. Once there they went on a television show and said that they were there to "document the event." Why the heck did we release them when they knew about 9/11 in advance and were happy it occurred according to eye witnesses? For all we know they could have been the very people who helped place the explosives in the towers, and if they weren't they probably knew the people who did it.
"Satan / Cheney in "08"
#400. To: GreyLmist, titorite, wudidiz, RickyJ, Cynicom, tom007, randge, All, *9-11* (#392)
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#401. To: tom007, RickyJ (#399)
Yes - Let us know who signed off on these eyewitnesses to this huge crime to be released to Israel.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#402. To: RickyJ (#397)
We have Alan Sabrosky, a Jew by birth saying that Israel did 9/11. Some may say so what? Well he is not just a Jew by birth is a former director of strategic studies at the Army War college. This guy knows warfare, he knows disinformation tactics, and further more, he claims he presented his findings to Generals and they were shocked and were outraged to come to the realization that Israel did 9/11.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#403. To: All, *9-11* (#402)
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#404. To: All (#403)
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#405. To: All (#404)
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#406. To: All, *9-11* (#405)
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#407. To: All (#406)
"Dominick Suter, owner of the company Urban Moving Systems, flees the country to Israel. The FBI later tells ABC News, “Urban Moving may have been providing cover for an Israeli intelligence operation.” Suter has been tied to the five Israeli agents caught filming the WTC attack. The FBI had questioned Suter around September 12, removing boxes of documents and a dozen computer hard drives. However, when the FBI returns a few days later, he is gone." [source: ABC News 6/21/2002]
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#408. To: All (#407)
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#409. To: FormerLurker (#403)
"Satan / Cheney in "08"
#410. To: tom007 (#409)
We would have never stood a chance of getting to the bottom of this with out the net.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#411. To: Cynicom (#337)
#412. To: FormerLurker (#410)
The key words are "Urban Moving Systems".
#413. To: FormerLurker (#403)
#414. To: GreyLmist (#368)
launches from Langley (the Happy Hooligans).
#415. To: FormerLurker (#402)
he claims he presented his findings to Generals and they were shocked and were outraged to come to the realization that Israel did 9/11.
#416. To: BTP Holdings (#412)
The key words are "Urban Moving Systems".
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#417. To: BTP Holdings (#411)
The U.S. was behind the events of 9-11. ;)
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#418. To: FormerLurker (#416)
(Edited)
And, it was actually a company formed as a cover for an Israeli spy operation whose owner, an Israeli citizen, fled to Israel after being interviewed by the FBI on 9/12/2001.
#419. To: BTP Holdings (#413)
Building #7 fell in its own footprint. A sure sign of a planned demolition.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#420. To: FormerLurker (#419)
(Edited)
ALL WTC buildings which collapsed "fell" into their own footprint.
#421. To: FormerLurker (#400)
(Edited)
If you bothered reading this thread at all,
#422. To: titorite (#421)
anyone paying attention to our BS can clearly see that...
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#423. To: BTP Holdings (#420)
I hear the Neal Bush was in charge of security at the Twin Towers before they collapsed. We do know to whom he is related. ;)
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#424. To: FormerLurker (#422)
Subliminal slip there, eh tit?
#425. To: FormerLurker, tom007, RickyJ, *9-11* (#401)
(Edited)
tom007: Yes - Let us know who signed off on these eyewitnesses to this huge crime to be released to Israel.
After the towers fell, Michael Mukasey who played a critical role in sending the Mossad agents arrested on 9/11 to Israel, worked as a judge on behalf of Silverstein against the insurance company who was awarded the payout for two separate attacks to the tune of $4.68 billion.
#426. To: FormerLurker, *9-11* (#422)
(Edited)
#427. To: GreyLmist, tom007, RickyJ, *9-11* (#425)
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#428. To: GreyLmist, titorite, wudidiz, *9-11* (#426)
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#429. To: titorite (#424)
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#430. To: Cynicom (#391)
FL... Do you guys get paid for this favor you did Israel?
"For my part, whatever anguish of spirit it may cost, I am willing to know the whole truth, to know the worst, and to provide for it.” ~ Patrick Henry
#431. To: titorite, FormerLurker (#424)
You can not stop and you can not consider other ideas and opinions.... not even as a thought exercise.
"For my part, whatever anguish of spirit it may cost, I am willing to know the whole truth, to know the worst, and to provide for it.” ~ Patrick Henry
#432. To: GreyLmist, *9-11* (#426)
(Edited)
From the beginning, No Planes researchers have substantially contributed to and compiled much of the evidence being parroted here on controlled demolition
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#433. To: GreyLmist, All, *9-11* (#428)
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#434. To: GreyLmist, titorite, All, *9-11* (#433)
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#435. To: GreyLmist (#426)
The No Planes investigations
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#436. To: GreyLmist (#426)
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#437. To: FormerLurker (#433)
Again, please answer the question.
#438. To: GreyLmist (#425)
(Edited)
tom007: Yes - Let us know who signed off on these eyewitnesses to this huge crime to be released to Israel. Who authorized this?
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#439. To: GreyLmist (#437)
Blah blah blah blah blah
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#440. To: GreyLmist (#437)
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#441. To: GreyLmist (#437)
lack of significant impact on WTC 1 from the explosive debris and projectiles flying towards it
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#442. To: GreyLmist (#437)
Videography analysis a distractive and disruptive non-science, what's the point of your question?
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#443. To: FormerLurker (#435)
Name me even one researcher who pioneered legitimate research into the events of 9/11 who endorses the "no planes" theory.
#444. To: GreyLmist (#443)
(Edited)
Name me one legitimate 9/11 reseacher
Me.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#445. To: GreyLmist (#443)
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#446. To: FormerLurker (#445)
(Edited)
Keep bumping this thread, you'll push those videos with evidence that the Mossad were involved with 9/11 off the screen in just a few more posts. I'm sure that's why you're bothering yourself with posting right now.
#447. To: titorite (#446)
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#448. To: FormerLurker (#445)
#449. To: GreyLmist, tom007, All (#448)
(Edited)
You are so irrationally fanatical that you both demand input and slander if it's given.
This is an example of evidentiary double standards that translate to pretty much any unsubstantiated assertion by planers being automatically deemed as admissable and nothing pertaining to no planes analysis.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#450. To: GreyLmist (#448)
Anyone can websearch for more info on Mukasey and the Dancing Israelis
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#451. To: FormerLurker (#449)
ure the White House at minimum gave it's blessing, it's not something a person could do on his own, and later be promoted to Secretary of Homeland Security, and later be given TSA contracts for naked body scanners.
"Satan / Cheney in "08"
#452. To: GreyLmist (#448)
Odd sayanim-like suppressions of evidence on your part
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#453. To: tom007 (#451)
Think I read something about important jews being able to bypass TSA security - giving them the same status in that respect as federal marshalls.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#454. To: FormerLurker (#453)
I haven't read that anywhere, do you have a link? I wouldn't doubt it though.
"Satan / Cheney in "08"
#455. To: GreyLmist, tom007, RickyJ, *9-11* (#425)
tom007: Yes - Let us know who signed off on these eyewitnesses to this huge crime to be released to Israel.
The reputable Israeli daily Ha'aretz reported that by the last week of October 2001, some six weeks after the men had been detained, Deputy Secretary of State Richard Armitage and two unidentified "prominent New York congressmen" were lobbying heavily for their release. According to a source at ABC News close to the 20/20 report, high-profile criminal lawyer Alan Dershowitz also stepped in as a negotiator on behalf of the men to smooth out differences with the U.S. government. (Dershowitz declined to comment for this article.) And so, at the end of November 2001, for reasons that only noted they had been working in the country illegally as movers, in violation of their visas, the men were flown home to Israel.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#456. To: GreyLmist (#425)
#457. To: FormerLurker (#447)
(Edited)
But there WERE planes that hit the WTC towers. As far as Shanksville, it's debatable whether or not Flight 93 was shot down over it. It most certainly didn't crash there in one piece.
#458. To: titorite (#457)
#459. To: titorite (#457)
(Edited)
OK you can disbelieve that part of the government portion but the rest of the story I insist you believe.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#460. To: titorite (#457)
An eye witness can lie....
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#461. To: titorite (#457)
(Edited)
The smoke comes from multiple directions : you refuse to see it saying trick of perspective
B) You have an unshakable religious belief in what you write, ignoring all facts and logic.
C) You are blind as hell.
D) You are deliberately lying.
E) All of the above.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#462. To: FormerLurker (#461)
#463. To: titorite (#462)
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#464. To: Cynicom, randge, christine (#304)
Utterly amazing that the government never called him as an expert witness, unless of course they suspected he was a bit of a bullshit artist.
#465. To: Cynicom, randge, christine (#306)
I read his claim long ago and few people bought into it.
#466. To: Cynicom, randge, christine (#310)
John Lear is a crackpot,
#467. To: FormerLurker (#463)
Keep thinking you know everything punk, it'll come back and bite you when you least expect it.
#468. To: titorite (#467)
May all of your propaganda be of the upmost entertainment for you.
#469. To: FormerLurker (#461)
(Edited)
Every single lucid person in NYC and surrounding areas could see that smoke that morning, matching what they were seeing on live TV if they were in their home or in a public place with a TV set. Others who were at work, in transit, or there as tourists could see the smoke plumes as well.
#470. To: FormerLurker, *9-11* (#455)
Oh and BTW, here's evidence the State Department was involved in the release of those spies...
From What Did Israel Know in Advance of the 9/11 Attacks?
Sivan, who had the camera, had planned to fly to India on Sept. 14 to meet friends there.” – Jewish Week (11/02/01)
#471. To: GreyLmist (#425)
Rabbi Zakheim
#472. To: GreyLmist (#470)
(Edited)
You might want to retract your assertion now that they bypassed judges in their release.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#473. To: FormerLurker, *9-11* (#472)
(Edited)
None of them went in front of a judge in relation to their roles in 9/11, espionage, and violations of various laws such as possession of explosives (reportedly tons) packed in one of those white vans, along with actually BLOWING UP a van on King Street in NYC which had been painted with a mural depicting an airliner crashing into the WTC.
On October 14, 2004, citing U.S. Supreme Court precedent, Mukasey reversed his September 2002 decision and dismissed a case in which plaintiffs in twenty consolidated actions sued the Italian insurance company Generali S.p.A. (Generali), seeking damages for nonpayment of insurance proceeds to beneficiaries of policies purchased by Holocaust victims before the end of World War II.[23] In so ruling, Mukasey gave deference to "a federal executive branch policy favoring voluntary resolution of Holocaust-era insurance claims."[24]
some have been kept in detention by the Immigration and Naturalization Service for nearly a month. In some cases, the immigration service has invoked special post-Sept. 11 laws to keep the Israelis in jail but presented no evidence of a link to the terrorism investigation.
Four of the Israelis, arrested on 9-11 for celebrating the mass murder of thousands of Americans, filed a multimillion dollar lawsuit against the US Justice Department, claiming they were arrested illegally, then held without charge and interrogated and tortured for months. [sic] After Sept. 11 over 100 young Israeli "art students", illegally in the country and spying all across America, were quietly ordered "deported" to Israel by a high American official [Chertoff again?]. [Have they filed suit against US, too?]
#474. To: All, *9-11* (#473)
(Edited)
More on Hellerstein, Mukasey, and Chertoff in another post
In 1987, Mukasey was nominated as a federal district judge for the Southern District of New York in Manhattan by President Ronald Reagan; he took the bench in 1988. He served in that position for 18 years, including tenure as Chief Judge from March 2000[19] through July 2006.[20]
Beginning in 2001, Michael Chertoff - the son of a Talmudic rabbi - was head of the criminal division of the US Justice Department. In 2005 President Bush nominated Chertoff as Secretary of US Homeland Security.
Alvin K Hellerstein and Michael Mukasey have been the Israeli connected, Talmudic tag-team of NY federal judges that have dominated 9/11 related litigation. [sic] Hellerstein and Mukasey just so happen to attend the exact same Orthodox, Zionist, Kehilath Jeshrun synagogue in Manhattan. The synagogue openly states that it is “deeply committed to the State of Israel and its citizens.” [sic]
#475. To: BTP Holdings (#471)
Me: Rabbi Zakheim
[Zakheim] was very familiar with WTC structures, infrastructures, and security arrangements from his involvement with SPC Subsidiary TRIDATA CORPORATION that oversaw 1993 WTC explosion related investigation and auditing.
#476. To: GreyLmist, formerlurker (#474)
In the 9/11 attacks Mukasey’s role was multifaceted. He oversaw the detained witnesses and suspects including the 5 dancing Israeli Mossad agents at the behest of then Assistant Attorney General at the Department of Justice, Michael Chertoff, the son of a founding member of the Mossad.
"Satan / Cheney in "08"
#477. To: All (#474)
Assistant Attorney General at the Department of Justice, Michael Chertoff, the son of a founding member of the Mossad.
From 2001 to 2003, he headed the criminal division of the Department of Justice,
Did you give the permission to send the steel from the World Trade Center to the scrap yard? If you did not authorize the destruction of the steel, who did?
Can you tell me why U.S. Attorney General John Ashcroft and the Criminal Division of the Department of Justice, which you headed, allowed Mayor Giuliani to “seize control” of the crime scene and make decisions that resulted in the hasty destruction of crucial evidence before it could be properly examined?
#478. To: tom007 (#476)
Appears we at 4um have far better investigative skills than the FBI and the New York Times and CBS.
#479. To: GreyLmist (#474)
(Edited)
In the 9/11 attacks Mukasey’s role was multifaceted. He oversaw the detained witnesses and suspects including the 5 dancing Israeli Mossad agents at the behest of then Assistant Attorney General at the Department of Justice, Michael Chertoff, the son of a founding member of the Mossad.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#480. To: FormerLurker, *9-11*, *No Planers* (#479)
(Edited)
#481. To: GreyLmist (#480)
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#482. To: GreyLmist (#480)
(Edited)
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#483. To: FormerLurker (#481)
Sheesh, one might almost think that you're here to waste people's time and drive them away from any REAL facts.
#484. To: FormerLurker (#482)
There is NO question as to the direction of the smoke plumes in ANY of the videos posted
#485. To: GreyLmist (#484)
Yes, there is, and the comparisons were MSM clips.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#486. To: GreyLmist (#483)
Same to you, FL.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#487. To: FormerLurker (#486)
#488. To: titorite (#487)
You can't even admit the film in front of you has two different images instead insisting that the explanation for the different images is just illusions of perspectives...
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#489. To: titorite (#487)
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#490. To: titorite, GreyLmist (#487)
(Edited)
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#491. To: FormerLurker (#490)
(Edited)
I've delt with people such of the both of you in my past. They've used names such as BeAChooser, yukon, ByteShredder, TomB, sinkspur, and a whole bunch of others.
#492. To: FormerLurker (#489)
(Edited)
#493. To: FormerLurker (#488)
As far as your idiotic "vortex" BS, you would only see that with smoke generators on the wing tips, or if the plane were to travel through a puff of smoke, neither of which occured on 9/11.
#494. To: titorite (#492)
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#495. To: titorite (#493)
I guess the crash magically negated the wake. Why not?
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#496. To: GreyLmist (#478)
I can't say as it's funny so much as disconcerting.
"Satan / Cheney in "08"
#497. To: FormerLurker (#495)
(Edited)
It is only you saying that. You won't see a "wake" if there is no smoke to cause a wake to be seen. You can't see air, and no matter how hard you stomp your feet, that is a fact.
#498. To: GreyLmist (#425)
#499. To: BTP Holdings (#498)
Osama bin Laden was a patsy in 9-11. ;)
#500. To: titorite (#499)
"Satan / Cheney in "08"
#501. To: titorite (#497)
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#502. To: FormerLurker (#501)
(Edited)
What do you not understand about not being able to see air? You are claiming that planes leave visible wakes in the air just like boats do in water. Do you really believe that? Have you never seen planes before?
#503. To: titorite (#502)
It follows the plane regardless.... It can drag cars ... their air videos on youtube of cars parking too close to runways... planes land fine , no visible smoke to observe but lots and lots of wind.... enough to tumble a taxi cab over and over.... the wake vortex.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#504. To: titorite (#502)
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#505. To: titorite (#502)
IF you can not observe it then nothing is their to cause it.....In all of the explosions and the resulting smoke aftewards ... fire should of swirled and smoke should of swirled, all that paper confetti we saw falling from the sky probable should of swirled ...... after impact it would of been like a horizontal tornado for about five minutes or so with the worst turbulence proly being in the first few minutes after impact ....
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#506. To: FormerLurker (#486)
You have made it your mission in life to discredit anything I post.
#507. To: GreyLmist (#506)
What fraudulent video are you complaining about? I explained to you that the media altered a video to promote war in Iraq. Did you forget that?
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#508. To: FormerLurker (#507)
The one specific video I was referring to earlier is the one your expert "analyzed" and determined it was doctored, AFTER he doctored the video himself to make it look doctored.
#509. To: GreyLmist (#508)
The one specific video I was referring to earlier is the one your expert "analyzed" and determined it was doctored, AFTER he doctored the video himself to make it look doctored.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#510. To: FormerLurker (#509)
My how soon you forget. This one, which you posted back in post 373.
#511. To: FormerLurker (#505)
The vortex is created by the rush of air over and under the wings as it flies. It's not creating a "tornado" which follows it, it's creating a spiraling draft of air behind it.
#512. To: FormerLurker, titorite, RickyJ, *No Planers* (#509)
(Edited)
FL: #486. To: GreyLmist (#483)
you hammer on me personally as if I were posting fraudulent info, all the while posting fraudulent videos yourself, mixed in with a tad bit of truth, just as some people claim Alex Jones does, amongst others.
What fraudulent video are you complaining about? I explained to you that the media altered a video to promote war in Iraq. Did you forget that?
The one specific video I was referring to earlier is the one your expert "analyzed" and determined it was doctored, AFTER he doctored the video himself to make it look doctored.
I don't know what you're talking about. Do you?
My how soon you forget. This one, which you posted back in post 373.
In this post, titorite posted this link as a smoke anomaly example:
In this post, titorite posted this link as an example of plane- trajectory anomalies in MSM newsclips:
In this post, titorite asked for help in posting the video analysis here of MSM newsclips with plane-trajectory anomalies at this link:
In this post, you (FL) referenced titorite's smoke anomaly video link [www.youtube.com- watchv=DkzfKRe0gbc -- YouTube title: 9-11 TV Fakery Smoke & Mirrors (short version)] and commented:
In this post, RickyJ made this comment to you about it:
That video (below) was posted and discussed quite a while ago in this forum -- I think before titorite was here. It is (as I recall) a manipulation, yes -- by the media -- for a later documentary pushing war against Iraq. The 9/11 imagery was darkened to look more terrifying for Islamophobic purposes. Am not surprised if Ricky and FL don't remember it or didn't see it because the more important issues to planers seems to be: 1. There was no such thing as any Media-Mockingbirds or Media-hoaxing on 9/11. 2. Remote control existed, glitch- free, and Zakheim would profit if it was used so it was. 3. John Lear's info is meaningless if planers don't like him. 4. Anyone who disagrees with planer dictats is __________ (fill in the ad hominem: nuts, extremely confused, a disinfo agent, etc., etc.)
#513. To: GreyLmist (#512)
#514. To: randge, FormerLurker (#513)
(Edited)
#515. To: randge, GreyLmist (#513)
Note that the writer didn't see the need to call anyone a "punk" or an "asshole" in his summary.
"For my part, whatever anguish of spirit it may cost, I am willing to know the whole truth, to know the worst, and to provide for it.” ~ Patrick Henry
#516. To: titorite (#511)
#517. To: titorite, GreyLmist (#510)
Anyone that clicks the link to post 373 will easily be able trace that shit back to 350 where I posted the link but was having trouble embedding. GeryLmist helped me with that in 373.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#518. To: titorite (#511)
(Edited)
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#519. To: randge, titorite, GreyLmist (#513)
Note that the writer didn't see the need to call anyone a "punk" or an "asshole" in his summary.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#520. To: GreyLmist, titorite, randge, wudidiz, RickyJ, *9-11* (#512)
(Edited)
Hence, my query at #508 asking if you knew what you were talking about. This is the 3rd time now that you are being informed: the referenced video [9-11 TV Fakery Smoke & Mirrors (short version)] was altered by the media to promote War in Iraq.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#521. To: GreyLmist, *9-11* (#512)
(Edited)
This is the 3rd time now that you are being informed: the referenced video [9-11 TV Fakery Smoke & Mirrors (short version)] was altered by the media to promote War in Iraq.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#522. To: GreyLmist, titorite, *9-11* (#512)
In this post, titorite asked for help in posting the video analysis here of MSM newsclips with plane-trajectory anomalies at this link: www.youtube.com/watch? v=NnhDqOJh_28 -- YouTube title: WTC No Plane Truth (Part 17)
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#523. To: GreyLmist, titorite, randge, RickyJ, All (#512)
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#524. To: titorite, GreyLmist, All (#511)
Your argument is invalid
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#525. To: FormerLurker, *No Planers* (#523)
(Edited)
Now GreyLmist and titorite, I want each of you to answer a VERY simple question with a YES or a NO answer, not with a five page collection of nonsense, but with a YES or a NO.
As you consider all such smoke formations as undisputable, prima facie evidence in itself of your 9/11 thesis, regardless of the contradictions, and consider technical Videography analysis a distractive and disruptive non- science, what's the point of your question [Edit to add: again]? To once again declare any response as interference and sprayed propaganda to dominate and derail the thread? I haven't decided yet exactly how much of the Acts of War against America which we saw that day may have been designed offstage by the perps.
Duration: 8.475
File Size: 31,700,388 bytes
(30.23 MB)
This movie is part of the collection: NIST WTC Organized Video Repository Producer: US Department of Commerce, NIST
#526. To: randge (#513)
An excellent reprise of important transactions in this argument.
#527. To: GreyLmist (#516)
Good job on posting videos, titorite.
#528. To: FormerLurker (#522)
(Edited)
In this post, titorite asked for help in posting the video analysis here of MSM newsclips with plane-trajectory anomalies at this link: www.youtube.com/watch? v=NnhDqOJh_28 -- YouTube title: WTC No Plane Truth (Part 17)
#529. To: titorite (#527)
(Edited)
#530. To: GreyLmist (#525)
Enough of your voluminous and redundant, bilious verbiage round and round and round.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#531. To: GreyLmist (#528)
You were shown MSM newsclips of plane trajectory and smoke trajectory anomalies.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#532. To: GreyLmist (#525)
This movie is part of the collection: NIST WTC Organized Video Repository Producer: US Department of Commerce, NIST
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#533. To: All, *9-11* (#529)
#534. To: GreyLmist, titorite (#528)
(Edited)
You made the smoke go in opposite directions in the first 2 1/2 minutes or whoever made the video did that
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#535. To: FormerLurker (#534)
#536. To: GreyLmist, *9-11* (#533)
This is an article from 2005 that I found today. Have just scanned through it quickly so far but it looks to be highly informative and corroborated with many linked references and pics:
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#537. To: titorite (#535)
You are currently incapable of overcoming your brainwashing FL
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#538. To: FormerLurker (#536)
Hell, you've pissed me off to the point I really don't think I care anymore, and I'm sure that was your intent all along.
#539. To: titorite (#538)
Seriously though if you are mad you should ask yourself why do you hate the conclusion?
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#540. To: FormerLurker (#539)
Because it is this sort of bullshit that obscures the truth, and prevents the majority of the population from ever nailing it down well enough to demand action.
#541. To: titorite (#540)
(Edited)
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#542. To: titorite (#540)
As for the people taking action?... Yeah righht... Action begins with you bub, and I ain't talking about typing online
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#543. To: FormerLurker (#542)
Go for it Rambo, go storm CNN and see where it gets you, since you think THEY were the ones who made 9/11 happen.
#544. To: titorite (#543)
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#545. To: titorite (#540)
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#546. To: FormerLurker (#545)
"For my part, whatever anguish of spirit it may cost, I am willing to know the whole truth, to know the worst, and to provide for it.” ~ Patrick Henry
#547. To: FL, All (#546)
"For my part, whatever anguish of spirit it may cost, I am willing to know the whole truth, to know the worst, and to provide for it.” ~ Patrick Henry
#548. To: wudidiz (#546)
(Edited)
No, they weren't leprechauns.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#549. To: FormerLurker (#531)
Me: You were shown MSM newsclips of plane trajectory and smoke trajectory anomalies.
#550. To: GreyLmist (#549)
(Edited)
You had no problem earlier re-posting (at #344) and then debating in better form the very same video of MSM clips that I posted twice before at #297 and #323 (noting in the second posting the timestamps 0:14 and 1:44 for comparison of smoke and plane trajectories):
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#551. To: GreyLmist (#549)
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#552. To: GreyLmist, *9-11* (#323)
(Edited)
0:14 and 1:44 of the video "September 11, 2001 - As It Happened - The South Tower Attack" at Post #297:
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#553. To: GreyLmist (#525)
and consider technical Videography analysis a distractive and disruptive non- science
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#554. To: GreyLmist, *9-11* (#549)
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#555. To: FormerLurker, *9-11*, *No Planers* (#539)
Because it is this sort of bullshit that obscures the truth, and prevents the majority of the population from ever nailing it down well enough to demand action.
#556. To: RickyJ, randge, Lod, Cynicom, All (#554)
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#557. To: GreyLmist (#555)
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#558. To: GreyLmist (#555)
(Edited)
You've all along been peddling "9/11 contradictions and flat out impossibilities as whacked out fantasies" by the pretense that 9/11 should strangely be handled as some kind of "exceptional" case where it's considered crazy, etc., to scrutinize available videos for veracity.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#559. To: GreyLmist (#555)
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#560. To: FormerLurker (#544)
So what's stopping you, go ahead and don some black SWAT outfit and do your thing at CNN, since you're a big bad brave internet tough guy, I'm sure it'll work out for you swell.
#561. To: titorite (#560)
You seem to be against those that would espouse outrageous conspiracy theories ... only it's no theory...
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#562. To: FormerLurker (#561)
(Edited)
Care to explain why you're posting false evidence and claiming it supports your theory?
#563. To: FormerLurker (#554)
(Edited)
In terms of proof that "no planers" are themselves manipulating and fabricating evidence to "prove" the videos are fabricated, here's a prime example of their "work".
right [Correction: left of the] other in the 2nd clip at 1:44 than the 1st at 0:14 where the other Tower was behind it; but that isn't a noticable enough change of position to me to explain the smoke moving both away from the plane approaching through a clear sky prior to it looking to move in the opposite direction over the plane. Nor does your smoke-expansion hypothesis explain the discrepacies in the approach- field for me. I've already told you at #347 that I could be mistaken about the smoke trajectories. However, you are no longer even in the running to be the one to convince me I am, if so, based on your evidence alone. I'll be needing a second opinion, maybe more, that I believe are much more reliable than you after all of this rigamarole from your malicious orations.
#564. To: FormerLurker (#557)
(Edited)
Hey genius, check your ping to post 554. So will you now admit that you have been trying to pass off videos doctored by no planers as actual evidence of a huge conspiracy by all news networks and the people of NYC on the morning of 9/11?
#565. To: FormerLurker (#548)
in your mind, do you think the entire population of NYC would lie about what they saw that day, or keep silent about it if it were in conflict with what they saw on TV?
"For my part, whatever anguish of spirit it may cost, I am willing to know the whole truth, to know the worst, and to provide for it.” ~ Patrick Henry
#566. To: wudidiz (#565)
I think all the videos of a plane hitting the wtc are fake. I think it's obvious.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#567. To: GreyLmist (#563)
I'm going to say here, a bit before your latest batch of 50 or so posts fully cycles through, that I could just as easily say it's Planers like you who've manipulated and fabricated evidence to sabotage No Planers.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#568. To: GreyLmist (#563)
(Edited)
Well, I saw smoke moving in two different directions compared to a plane flying in from the right of the screen and still do -- with the smoking Tower somewhat more to the right [Correction: left of the] other in the 2nd clip at 1:44 than the 1st at 0:14 where the other Tower was behind it; but that isn't a noticable enough change of position to me to explain the smoke moving both away from the plane approaching through a clear sky prior to it looking to move in the opposite direction over the plane
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#569. To: titorite (#562)
The 25 rules of disinformation.... you are using them verbatim.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#570. To: All (#550)
it's the NORTH tower viewed from the northeast, and smoke is blowing directly away from the observer (southeast), then expanding out from right to left in the distance.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#571. To: FormerLurker (#568)
(Edited)
There is no smoke "blowing in opposite directions" except from out of your own head.
#572. To: FormerLurker (#570)
(Edited)
Correction. With all these idiotic back and forth posts I misspoke and said the first shot was from the northeast. I meant northwest, and had said northwest hundreds of posts ago.
"Do people really believe the US governement could contain a plan like this from anyone."
I locked myself inside the capsule
And watched the planet slowly turning blue
The lights before me flashed and sparkled
Holding keys to lives I've wandered through
Mysterious and cold upon the screen
Glowing, flowing with the currents
Yet never knowing where I've really been
Come to rest in planes that don't exist
Visiting worlds of crystal beauty
Offering dreams so very hard to resist
I've seen the future
Beyond dimension and into empty space
Finding questions, never answers
Living time behind another face
#573. To: GreyLmist (#572)
#574. To: GreyLmist, randge, All (#572)
(Edited)
Since I'm here, though, do you realize that the example you cited a couple of times at 1:16 in the MSM newsclips video isn't really comparable to the Internet Archived NIST video because the NIST video shows a plane approach and the MSM newsclip video doesn't? This longer, 10-min. version of the video you've been rampaging about for so long has comparable examples of the archived NIST documentary in question (at the start) and the alleged plane impact too:
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#575. To: GreyLmist (#572)
the archived NIST documentary in question
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#576. To: GreyLmist, randge, All (#572)
(Edited)
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#577. To: FormerLurker (#576)
It's obvious disinfo, which you either fell for, or are actively a participant in.
#578. To: GreyLmist, randge, titorite, RickyJ, tom007, wudidiz, abraxas, All, *9-11* (#572)
(Edited)
In fact if you compare the smoke plume at the end of that clip, where the plane disappears behind the Empire State Building, that is EXACTLY where the video STARTS, The video is looped from the true start of the motion in the CBS video, with the plane edited out of the frame, then restarted slightly after the beginning of motion in the CBS video, giving the illusion that it was all one continuous clip with a plane appearing out of nowhere.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#579. To: randge (#577)
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#580. To: FormerLurker (#579)
#581. To: randge (#580)
It's extremely difficult to know whose collection of pixels is the genuine article here and what has been tampered with. I don't have the expertise myself and must rely on the interpretations of others.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#582. To: All (#578)
(Edited)
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#583. To: GreyLmist, All (#572)
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#584. To: GreyLmist, *9-11* (#572)
(Edited)
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#585. To: All (#584)
(Edited)
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#586. To: randge (#573)
(Edited)
View Direction: north
Duration: 8.475
File Size: 31,700,388 bytes
(30.23 MB)
Me: 0:14 and 1:44 timestamps for comparison of smoke trajectories
FL: 1:16 smoke issue and 4:35-4:59 plane and smoke issues; comparison to Smoke and Mirrors videosThe camera location: General Motors Building, aka FAO Schwartz, E 58th St at Madison Ave... 215 meters tall on ground elevated at 48 feet above sea level Lat 40.763595 Lon -73.972781 (Thanks, YougeneDebs)
Oddly enough, Detroit Public TV has pulled its "documentary" off its website...
#587. To: GreyLmist (#586)
(Edited)
2. Post #572 | 9/11 TV Fakery: Smoke & Mirrors -- long version, 10 min.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#588. To: GreyLmist (#586)
(Edited)
Click here: http://archive.org/details/PBS-Center07 -- 8.5 sec. clip with audio of the PBS documentary. Full version at Internet Archive.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#589. To: FormerLurker (#575)
Out of curiousity, do you have a link to the NIST documentary you cite, or are you just repeating what you've heard in the "Smoke and Mirrors" video?
#590. To: GreyLmist (#586)
Me: 0:14 and 1:44 timestamps for comparison of smoke trajectories
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#591. To: GreyLmist (#589)
(Edited)
I posted the NIST video clip for the PBS documentary referenced in the Smoke and Mirrors videos at Post #525 and again at Post #586 in a collection of related videos for comparisons as an access convenience.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#592. To: GreyLmist (#589)
I posted the NIST video clip for the PBS documentary referenced in the Smoke and Mirrors videos at Post #525
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#593. To: FormerLurker (#578)
"For my part, whatever anguish of spirit it may cost, I am willing to know the whole truth, to know the worst, and to provide for it.” ~ Patrick Henry
#594. To: wudidiz (#593)
Watcha think of this?
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#595. To: randge (#573)
I have been following this debate on and off for the past couple of days and haven't had time to keep up with the minutiae of the discussion, but I'd like to know how you'd respond to this question.
How do I know what I am seeing here is a video as it was released or copied from Detroit Public TV and hasn't been doctored to show something other than what the original producer had broadcast?
#596. To: GreyLmist, randge, *9-11* (#595)
(Edited)
Also at Post #586 linked above is a NIST clip (Producer: US Department of Commerce, NIST) at Internet Archive of the PBS-Center 07 documentary referenced in both of the Smoke and Mirrors videos. This is the link for the documentary clip at Internet Archive: http://archive.org/details/PBS-Center07.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#597. To: FormerLurker, *9-11* (#594)
I think video compression causes a loss of resolution, especially that of a repetitive linear pattern such as the outside of the WTC.
"For my part, whatever anguish of spirit it may cost, I am willing to know the whole truth, to know the worst, and to provide for it.” ~ Patrick Henry
#598. To: wudidiz (#597)
(Edited)
You have failed to address any of the anomalies in the picture. You talk about video compression, but the images are taken from a video shown on the news. One of the ones used as "evidence" of a plane hit.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#599. To: wudidiz (#597)
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#600. To: FormerLurker (#590)
Out of curiousity, are you ever going to tell me which way YOU think the smoke is travelling in each clip in regards to compass direction?
#601. To: wudidiz, *9-11* (#597)
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#602. To: , *No Planers* (#586)
(Edited)
#603. To: *No Planers* (#586)
#604. To: GreyLmist, *9-11* (#600)
Nope. In case you didn't get the memos about that earlier: I took you off my Assistance List on that matter.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#605. To: All, *9-11* (#578)
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#606. To: GreyLmist, randge, All, *9-11* (#586)
Link to Internet Archive Wayback Machine page-copy for terrorize.dk: Second Hit - North of the Empire State Building [Translate from Danish to English]
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#607. To: FormerLurker (#604)
So let's see. You are refusing to state WHAT direction you think the smoke is going, HAVE refused to state which direction the smoke is going, yet CLAIM that the smoke is going in the wrong direction.
4. Post #549 | September 11, 2001 - As It Happened - The South Tower Attack -- 8.5 min.
#608. To: GreyLmist (#607)
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#609. To: FormerLurker (#606)
My apologies to terrorize.dk as I've checked the archived page you linked, and using the Google Translate function, found that the author of THAT site was apparently saying the same things I just said about how the "airplane appears out of nowhere" was faked, ie. by splicing in a modified version of the beginning which has the plane erased, picked up at the 0:02 mark where the smoke jumps backwards.
#610. To: GreyLmist (#609)
I doubt that is meant to be intentionally misleading as to where the plane image first appears in its approach. Rather, it's likely due to particular disscussion points about the scene. The video states that the smoke is the main focus of the analysis and not so much the plane, etc.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#611. To: FormerLurker (#608)
(Edited)
Capiche now?
#612. To: GreyLmist (#611)
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#613. To: GreyLmist (#611)
(Edited)
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#614. To: FormerLurker (#610)
#615. To: GreyLmist (#614)
If you check other CBS videos from that day, I think you will find that the plane image does appear out of nowhere in more than the Smoke and Mirrors videos
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#616. To: FormerLurker (#613)
#617. To: FormerLurker (#615)
The original CBS source video has the plane freeze framed with a circle around it before showing the approach, and that is the only version of the full approach from CBS I could find. I haven't seen anything other than the doctored NIST video or its derivitives that show a "plane out of nowhere".
#618. To: FormerLurker (#569)
(Edited)
You seem to be an expert at it, in your own mind at least. You should go back to disinfo school since you obviously suck at what you're trying to accomplish.
#619. To: all (#618)
#620. To: FormerLurker (#501)
You are claiming that planes leave visible wakes in the air just like boats do in water.
#621. To: RickyJ (#619)
Israeli involvement in 9/11.
#622. To: BTP Holdings (#620)
If you've ever seen a plane fly thru smoke, I think you will agree THEY DO LEAVE A VISIBLE WAKE.
#623. To: BTP Holdings (#620)
(Edited)
If you've ever seen a plane fly thru smoke, I think you will agree THEY DO LEAVE A VISIBLE WAKE.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#624. To: BTP Holdings (#620)
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#625. To: FormerLurker (#624)
#626. To: titorite (#625)
(Edited)
It follows a plane.. it exists regardless...
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#627. To: FormerLurker (#626)
(Edited)
The vortices don't "follow" the plane, they are formed BEHIND the plane and do not have any forward motion. They drift with the wind, and the wind was moving southeast, away from the towers.
#628. To: titorite (#627)
Glad to see you move away from the position of insisting that smoke be present for a wake vortex to exist.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#629. To: titorite (#627)
(Edited)
Why you think Newtonian physics do not apply to the 911 planes is beyond me.... anyways the wake is formed and it follows a plane just like a wake of a boat follows a boat.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#630. To: titorite (#627)
(Edited)
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#631. To: FormerLurker (#630)
"Satan / Cheney in "08"
#632. To: tom007 (#631)
I'm going with C because thats what Fox news told me.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#633. To: titorite (#627)
saying that a a wake vortex will drift with he wind or comparing the wing tip vortex of a fighter jet in a high G manuver as opposed to a typical commercial jet vortex.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#634. To: FormerLurker (#629)
I've never seen a wake chase a boat that was stopped and go past it. Have you?
#635. To: FormerLurker (#632)
"Satan / Cheney in "08"
#636. To: titorite (#627)
(Edited)
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#637. To: titorite (#634)
(Edited)
YES THE FUCKING WAKE WILL FOLLOW THE FUCKING PLANE YOU CAN NOT BE THIS FUCKING STUPID BUT RATHER MUST BE PLAYING STUPID!
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#638. To: tom007 (#635)
A switcheroo seems likely.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#639. To: titorite (#627)
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#640. To: FormerLurker (#636)
"Satan / Cheney in "08"
#641. To: FormerLurker (#638)
Yes, that is most likely exactly what happened.
"Satan / Cheney in "08"
#642. To: FormerLurker (#639)
(Edited)
#643. To: tom007 (#640)
(Edited)
FL - that photo is a great way to show why that plane today would have winglets- vertical wings at the tips of the wings.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#644. To: titorite (#642)
You are a keyboard warrior.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#645. To: tom007 (#641)
Do you have any more evidence than I do about the pilots and radar stuff.j
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#646. To: FormerLurker (#644)
#647. To: FormerLurker (#645)
But I HAVE read or heard about that military base being exactly where the switch was made on at least a few if not all of those flights.
"Satan / Cheney in "08"
#648. To: titorite (#646)
Yes I believe the the towers did indeed emit smoke.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#649. To: titorite (#646)
Sorry but wakes do follow the things that form them. Including planes.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#650. To: titorite (#646)
I have no need to post large pics or practice massive copy and pastes
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#651. To: titorite (#646)
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#652. To: FormerLurker (#651)
(Edited)
#653. To: titorite (#652)
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#654. To: FormerLurker (#632)
(Edited)
Unfortunately, many people still DO believe C, because they think those who are trying to explain B are the same sort of people who believe A.
#655. To: BTP Holdings (#654)
What makes you think they could fly a jumbo jet?
#656. To: BTP Holdings (#654)
I believe C is correct. Those Arabs could not even fly a Cessna. What makes you think they could fly a jumbo jet?
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#657. To: titorite (#655)
Over exposure to prolonged amounts of TV can make one believe damn near anything.
#658. To: FormerLurker (#653)
So responding to you is now a "disinformation tactic", eh?
#659. To: FormerLurker (#645)
(Edited)
But I HAVE read or heard about that military base being exactly where the switch was made on at least a few if not all of those flights.
#660. To: titorite (#658)
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#661. To: BTP Holdings (#659)
(Edited)
In any event, I have information that it was NORAD which was responsible for those planes hitting the towers.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#662. To: titorite (#655)
(Edited)
Over exposure to prolonged amounts of TV can make one believe damn near anything.
#663. To: FormerLurker (#661)
whatever it was that hit the Pentagon, it wasn't a Boeing 757 piloted by one who couldn't even fly a Cessna.
#664. To: BTP Holdings (#663)
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#665. To: FormerLurker (#664)
A form of cruise missile or drone is most likely.
#666. To: tom007 (#0)
#667. To: BTP Holdings (#666)
I pity those poor people who breathed all of that asbestos which was released into the air that day.
"Satan / Cheney in "08"
#668. To: BTP Holdings (#666)
It even tells about Urban Moving Systems, an Israeli front.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#669. To: tom007 (#667)
#670. To: titorite (#669)
Not one was warned or offered aid. ....
"Satan / Cheney in "08"
#671. To: , *No Planers* (#603)
Pinging copies of reference materials at Post #586. May have to try accessing the post more than once if it goes to the opening post in this thread first, as my computer does likely due to thread-length. If so, go to the end of the path for Post #586 in the browser and click Enter.
#672. To: FormerLurker, All, *9-11*, *No Planers* (#671)
(Edited)
#673. To: GreyLmist (#672)
No Planers
#674. To: GreyLmist (#672)
Smoke and Mirrors videos-controversy topic.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
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