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Title: Pilots Analyze the Government Provided Radar Data of the Planes of 9-11
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Published: Sep 24, 2012
Author: http://topdocumentaryfilms.com/911-inter
Post Date: 2012-09-24 19:34:06 by tom007
Keywords: None
Views: 4724
Comments: 145
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#49. To: Cynicom (#47)
Don't be absurd. It was your posted impression of SCATANA implementation by an FAA "peon" (as you said) that was being questioned -- not someone else's and not "finger pointing". You not only expect (as Jews do similarly) to be exempt from direct questioning but now claim to be exempt above all others here from request for a reference, as if you shouldn't be bothered with "notes to satisfy others" regarding your baloney statement? ------- "They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
Might it be Stewart AFB? 9/11 Flight Paths & Stewart Air Base Sorry about the bad link on the last try in post 25, this time the link should work. PS: Flights 11 and 175 were 767's, not 757's. It was Flight 77 which allegedly struck the Pentagon which was a 757. That link doesn't work. Thanks for the heads up. Couldn't edit the original post since too much time has gone by, but I've reposted it in post 50. It could have already been airborne with its transponder turned off. My friend preceded Mr. Sliney from out of the NYC common IFR room and preceded him as a manager at the control center. It was well known that it was he that took action, not VP Cheney. He risked everything, Cheney risked nothing.
What say you now sir?????
Maybe a video would be more convincing? See http://www.c-spanvideo.org/program/295417-1
Thanks... Friend of mine had that job a few years ago after I retired. Many people are afraid of or are unable to recognize reality. That is what we have here. There is no excuse for being obtuse about something when it is obvious to others that an enlightened background is missing. Failure to avail oneself of what is available is basis for forming wrong opinions that defy gravity.
Unfortunately its a human trait that just keeps giving ... giving me a headache.
That is what we have here. There is no excuse for being obtuse about something when it is obvious to others that an enlightened background is missing. Failure to avail oneself of what is available is basis for forming wrong opinions that defy gravity. I love you C But that post was marvelous nonsense. Good thing you and I can. I've heard of Sliney and am reposting this article (which I linked here Dec. of last year) that mentions him: Sliney’s clients included financial investors who were accused of Securities and Exchange violations. In one 1998 case, he represented Steven K. Gourlay, Jr., an employee of Sterling Foster. It was reported that Sterling Foster was “secretly controlled” by Randolph Pace and was at the center of "one of the most notorious scams ever.”[5] Sliney got Gourlay’s charges dropped in 1998 but, in a related 2002 case, Gourlay pled guilty to conspiracy to commit securities fraud, mail fraud and wire fraud, and was sentenced to six months in prison.[6,7] In the summer of 2000, Sliney represented Merrill Lynch in a case in which the delay of the transfer of clients’ funds to Smith Barney was said to have “caused their investments with Merrill, Lynch to lose some $638,000 in value.” Sliney was able to get Merrill Lynch off the hook.[8] For whatever reasons, Sliney decided to leave his lucrative law career behind just months before 9/11 in order to return to the FAA. It was reported that Jack Kies, FAA’s manager of tactical operations, offered Sliney the job of Command Center national operations manager. Instead, Sliney asked to work as a specialist and he started in that role. Kies offered Sliney the national operations manager position again six months later and Sliney accepted.[9] His first day on the job was 9/11/01. [sic] Several of the FAA’s top people confirmed that the military was engaged and knew about the hijackings early on. This included Jeff Griffith at the Command Center and Monte Belger, the FAA’s acting Deputy Administrator, who was present at FAA Headquarters. Belger stated that -- “[T]here were military people on duty at the FAA Command Center, as Mr. Sliney said. They were participating in what was going on. There were military people in the FAA’s Air Traffic Organization in a situation room. They were participating in what was going on.”[13] When a new, honest investigation is finally convened, it should look into why a lawyer, who knew how to handle evidence and get financiers off the hook, was experiencing his first day on the job as national operation manager at the FAA. ------- "They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
I believe the Kene (sp) report supports this. Grey, verbiage will not paper over rudeness and a lack of self enlightenment.
Return to sender. You are assisting in the propagation of myths that can jeopardize national security. Since 9/11, people have been conditioned to think there's nothing unusual about a VP hijacking control of our Military by issuing Defense orders - - or, as you've suggested, that they are lax if they don't; that the FAA has the power, if it so chooses, to scramble our Military fighter jets and bypass Military steps in order to enforce the wishes of whoever at the FAA; that someone like Sliney can overrule Military authority if they want to regarding SCATANA procedures. ------- "They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
Grey... Again, rudeness and gross verbosity does not paper over the lack of intelligent discourse.
Thanks for your input, tom. transcript 9-11 Commission Hearings for June 17, 2004 (washingtonpost.com) History Commons -- SCATANA ------- "They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
Again, return to sender. In other words, you have nothing but redundant and demeaning barbs in reply to the issue of jeopardizing national security with baseless myth conditioning. ------- "They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
It could have already been airborne with its transponder turned off. But transponder off wouldn't mean invisible until then, as you know. Thanks for correcting the link. Edited last sentence. ------- "They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
Grey... I refuse to write you off as a hopeless case. Open your mind, drop the personal negativity, there is a world of knowledge out there to be absorbed for free. Example...Ten years after the fact, someone has to educate you with what everyone else has long known. That is very telling and my last word until you open your mind, and LISTEN. Cyni...
In terms of primary radar, blips can be merged tranparently by a lower altitude plane climbing from below radar altitude, while maintaining the same geographical position as the other aircraft. A swap could be made by both aircraft flying side by side momentarily, then the original aircraft descends at such a rate and airspeed to match the position of the upper aircraft, till it is below radar altitude. It's probably one good reason why the FAA destroyed the statements of the controllers that day which may have included an observation that for a moment, the primary blip for Flight 77 and 175 got a little bigger. But then again, if the transponders hadn't been turned off yet, would they had even been tracking them on primary radar at that point? In reference to the destroyed FAA tape... F.A.A. Official Scrapped Tape of 9/11 Controllers' Statements The taping began before noon on Sept. 11 at the New York Air Route Traffic Control Center, in Ronkonkoma, on Long Island, where about 16 people met in a basement conference room known as "the Bat Cave" and passed around a microphone, each recalling his or her version of the events a few hours earlier. But officials at the center never told higher-ups of the tape's existence, and it was later destroyed by an F.A.A. official described in the report as a quality-assurance manager there. That manager crushed the cassette in his hand, shredded the tape and dropped the pieces into different trash cans around the building, according to a report made public today by the inspector general of the Transportation Department. I refuse to write you off as a hopeless case. Open your mind, drop the personal negativity, there is a world of knowledge out there to be absorbed for free. Example...Ten years after the fact, someone has to educate you with what everyone else has long known. That is very telling and my last word until you open your mind, and LISTEN. Cyni... I don't know what you're talking about. Sliney wasn't news to me. I reposted a link by me from last year with excerpts as evidence of that and for your perusal regarding your vague "peon" statement. Apparently, that abbreviated info was too much for you to absorb, like other research that conflicts much with the official and popular mantras. [Edit to add: You assessed it as "verbiage".] Perhaps you think that you should be exempt from studying the situation while directing others to do that -- Do as you say, not as you do. Drop your personal negativity. I could remove the word "baloney" at post #49 (in reply to your dismissive refusal of an explanatory reference at that point) and the issue of jeopardizing national security by misleading the public into conditioned mythos-acceptance of national security breaches at various levels would be the same. Evidently, you still have nothing to say about that other than to degrade my knowledge of this matter. Edited for hyphenation, punctuation and bracketed insert. ------- "They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
Good question. ------- "They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
911Timeline.net - The Most Comprehensive Minute By Minute Timeline On 911 8) 7:59 a.m.: American Airlines Flight 11 a Boeing 767-223ER with a maximum capacity of 181 passengers and 23,980 gallons of fuel, lifts off from Logan International Airport in Boston, Massachusetts, bound for Los Angeles International Airport in Los Angeles, California. Take-off was scheduled for 7:45. I've learned the hard way that being at the airport to board by departure time wasn't early enough to be seated, due to the door being closed for pre-flight steps that had to be conducted prior to scheduled lift-off. Am wondering if the official story indicates that some sort of special boarding arrangement was made for the alleged hijackers. ------- "They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
I was taught civility, long ago. The first example drummed into my thick head was this: "Winston Churchill once said..."It costs me nothing to be civil to a man, even though I intend to hang him tomorrow". ON this forum, I am very often labeled as dumb, stupid, ignorant and those are the kind and generous ones. At times posters use language that describes what they really think. At the end of the day, I will have proven myself ignorant at best, but I did try to be civil doing it. Did not cost me a cent.
No knowledge of this. I do know years ago, people at the olde CAA had no protection from liability while doing their job as directed. Every word was taped, stamped, filed and stored. It finally took an act of Congress to relieve workers from liability. Anytime there was an event, lawyers descended like locusts, suing everyone in sight, the man at the bottom could end up penniless trying to protect himself. Once the government accepted the legal burden, the lawyers looked elsewhere for money.
Malarkey. What you tried to do here in your responses to me is exempt yourself from civility with an autocratic double standard equating any attempt to debate you as finger-pointing, rudeness, verbiage, gross verbiage, lack of self- enlightenment and intelligent discourse, negativity and so on. Edited for spelling. ------- "They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
And most of us find it salutary to actually practice important lessons we were taught. I'm glad to see I'm not the only one who knows he's full of shit. He pulls out the "civility" canard when he's had his ass handed to him on a plate an can no longer defend his position. Then he runs away. Calling Ron Paul an isolationist is like calling your neighbor a hermit because he doesn't come over and break your window - unknown I WITHDRAW MY CONSENT! This tactic is well described in "Compromised" by Terry Reed (I think) detailing how drug shipments were dropped into the US by Barry Seal et al. I asked an AF fighter pilot, my neighbor, if it would work, and he answered affirmative. Yeh that's what I do with unimportant tapes that I know nobody will ever be interested and deal with unimportant issues. Perhaps my civility classes would be beneficial????? People that do not function well in open society find such very helpful.
People that do not function well in open society find such very helpful. Because...they're not functioning well or they'd know better than to take a class in civility from you, Mr. Double Standards Autocrat? ------- "They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
Fan would feel much better if he were a Fan of Salma Hayek. She has a calming effect on men that are troubled.
People that do not function well in open society find such very helpful. Cowards like to make see-through excuses and run away when they've been cornered instead of manning up and admitting they were wrong or admitting defeat or just outright saying that they no longer want to argue the issue. You fool no one. Calling Ron Paul an isolationist is like calling your neighbor a hermit because he doesn't come over and break your window - unknown I WITHDRAW MY CONSENT! The comments coming from so many on all the forums on the internet sure do lend insight to the whys and wherefores of this country's status. So many attack when opinions differ, yet few offer up anything worth considering for solving today's problems. Insults and name calling come fast and furious, but too few have, can or will hold rational discussions. There is so much to be learned from history as well as from the views and opinions of those we share space with on this earth. There is little to be gained from challenging the rights of others to differ. Rational and respectful discussion can bring not only enlightening knowledge, but acceptable compromise. Irrational and disrespectful communication not only encourages silence, but also limits ideas, views and suggestions that could well lead to excellent solutions, not just mediocre attempts at "putting out fires". I hope the day comes when the majority of people on this world show respect to others.
Fan... If you do not have affinity for Salma Hayek, we can never be friends. Of course, if you are female, I could understand a dislike for Salma.
How to phrase this question for Cynicom without rankling him by using the word "you"...I'm gonna venture going with this: Is Kissinger an alumni of the Cynicom Class of Civility? Henry Kissinger Says Luke Rudkowski Is A Sick Person for Questioning Him on NSM 200 ------- "They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
Henry... I recall in real time the appearance of this evil person. Henry like von Mises, Hayeks and others were the offspring of the Rockefeller money. Henry was a nobody,enlisted person in the military, suspected Russian spy with the code name of Bor. He was a nobody, going nowhere until Nelson Rockefeller bought and paid for him. When Henry was turned loose into the political arena, Rockefeller gave him $50,000 cash to tide him over until a "position" was found for him. Anyone that read his """best seller""""" Nuclear weapons and Foreign Policy"""" knew he was another Ayn Rand in the making.
There is a picture of Kissinger eating his own boogers. That's the least of his problems, the mass-murdering bastid. I sense a disturbance in the farce. Much gnashing will ensue.
Comments (90 - 145) not displayed.
Top • Page Up • Full Thread • Page Down • Bottom/LatestCareful now, that YOU finger pointing is not nice.
Not a clue
young man. Mental or written notes to satisfy others, would clutter up my mind.
#50. To: tom007, GreyLMist, *9-11* (#18)
Thanks FL.There's a lot of material there. I thought the salient fact was that one of the jets performance perimeters were entirely consistent with a 757 until shortly after it passed over a military base, then it's performance became impossible for a 757 to perform. The "Magic Airplane" of our time, it would seem.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#51. To: GreyLmist (#40)
9/11 Flight Paths & Stewart Air Base
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#52. To: GreyLmist (#46)
Again.. if a switch took place with an aircraft departing [Stewart].. that aircraft would have to have incredible power in order to climb and intercept at cruising speed directly over or near Stewart.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#53. To: GreyLmist (#49)
#54. To: GreyLmist, All (#49)
regarding your baloney statement?
#55. To: Cynicom (#48)
ANYONE THAT HAD ANY INTEREST IN 911 SHOULD HAVE KNOWN THIS GENTLEMAN FROM DAY ONE ...
#56. To: Phant2000 (#55)
#57. To: Cynicom (#56)
Many people are afraid of or are unable to recognize reality.
#58. To: Cynicom (#56)
Many people are afraid of or are unable to recognize reality.
"Satan / Cheney in "08" 
#59. To: Cynicom (#56)
Many people are afraid of or are unable to recognize reality.
"Satan / Cheney in "08"
#60. To: Cynicom (#56)
Failure to avail oneself of what is available is basis for forming wrong opinions that defy gravity.
Benedict Sliney was an ATC in the US Air Force during the Vietnam War and, after that, worked at the FAA for the first half of his professional career. In the 1980s, Sliney went on from the FAA to work as an attorney and continued in that career throughout the 1990s. He worked for several law firms during this time, handling various kinds of cases, and he was a partner in some of those firms.
#61. To: GreyLmist (#60)
Several of the FAA’s top people confirmed that the military was engaged and knew about the hijackings early on.
"Satan / Cheney in "08"
#62. To: GreyLmist (#60)
#63. To: Cynicom (#62)
Grey, verbiage will not paper over rudeness and a lack of self enlightenment.
#64. To: GreyLmist (#63)
#65. To: tom007 (#61)
General Eberhart: our SCATANA said, "Leave the nav aids on." Our SCATANA said, "FAA, you still control the traffic that's flying." Our SCATANA said, "Law enforcement and Flight For Life can continue to fly." We don't want to ground them during this terrible tragedy. And then procedures for getting waivers to fly.
#66. To: Cynicom (#64)
Again, rudeness and gross verbosity does not paper over the lack of intelligent discourse.
#67. To: FormerLurker (#52)
(Edited)
Again.. if a switch took place with an aircraft departing [Stewart].. that aircraft would have to have incredible power in order to climb and intercept at cruising speed directly over or near Stewart.
#68. To: GreyLmist (#66)
#69. To: GreyLmist (#67)
But transponder off wouldn't mean invisible until then, as you know.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#70. To: GreyLmist, tom007, Cynicom, randge, All (#67)
WASHINGTON, May 6 — At least six air traffic controllers who dealt with two of the hijacked airliners on Sept. 11, 2001, made a tape recording that same day describing the events, but the tape was destroyed by a supervisor without anyone making a transcript or even listening to it, the Transportation Department said in a report today.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#71. To: Cynicom (#68)
(Edited)
Grey...
#72. To: FormerLurker (#69)
But then again, if the transponders hadn't been turned off yet, would they had even been tracking them on primary radar at that point?
#73. To: FormerLurker, *9-11* (#25)
PS: Flights 11 and 175 were 767's,
7) 7:45 a.m.: Mohammed Atta and Abdulaziz Alomari board American Airlines Flight 11.
#74. To: tom007 (#58)
But that post was marvelous nonsense.
#75. To: FormerLurker (#70)
#76. To: Cynicom (#74)
(Edited)
I did try to be civil doing it.
#77. To: Cynicom (#74)
(Edited)
I was taught civility, long ago.
#78. To: GreyLmist, Cynicom (#76)
What you tried to do here in your responses to me is exempt yourself from civility with an autocratic double standard equating any attempt to debate you as finger-pointing, rudeness, verbiage, gross verbiage, lack of self- enlightenment and intelligent discourse, negativity and so on.
Any perceived compliance with unconstitutional “laws” or orders put forth by government employees is NOT recognition of their authority; it is simply the result of carefully calculated submission to an entity exhibiting superior firepower.
#79. To: FormerLurker (#69)
In terms of primary radar, blips can be merged tranparently by a lower altitude plane climbing from below radar altitude, while maintaining the same geographical position as the other aircraft. A swap could be made by both aircraft flying side by side momentarily, then the original aircraft descends at such a rate and airspeed to match the position of the upper aircraft, till it is below radar altitude.
"Satan / Cheney in "08"
#80. To: FormerLurker (#70)
But officials at the center never told higher-ups of the tape's existence, and it was later destroyed by an F.A.A. official described in the report as a quality-assurance manager there. That manager crushed the cassette in his hand, shredded the tape and dropped the pieces into different trash cans around the building, according to a report made public today by the inspector general of the Transportation Department
"Satan / Cheney in "08"
#81. To: F.A. Hayek Fan (#78)
I'm glad to see I'm not the only one who knows he's full of shit. He pulls out the "civility" canard when he's had his ass handed to him on a plate an can no longer defend his position. Then he runs away.
#82. To: Cynicom, F.A. Hayek Fan (#81)
Perhaps my civility classes would be beneficial?????
#83. To: GreyLmist (#82)
Because...they're not functioning well or they'd know better than to take a class in civility from you, Mr. Double Standards Autocrat?
#84. To: Cynicom (#81)
Perhaps my civility classes would be beneficial?????
Any perceived compliance with unconstitutional “laws” or orders put forth by government employees is NOT recognition of their authority; it is simply the result of carefully calculated submission to an entity exhibiting superior firepower.
#85. To: Cynicom (#83)
#86. To: F.A. Hayek Fan, All (#84)
#87. To: Phant2000, Cynicom (#85)
I hope the day comes when the majority of people on this world show respect to others.
#88. To: GreyLmist, Phant2000 (#87)
#89. To: Cynicom (#88)
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