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Title: Pilots Analyze the Government Provided Radar Data of the Planes of 9-11
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Published: Sep 24, 2012
Author: http://topdocumentaryfilms.com/911-inter
Post Date: 2012-09-24 19:34:06 by tom007
Keywords: None
Views: 4795
Comments: 145
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#45. To: Lod (#44)
(It was probably self-insured anyway.) It's almost like they wanted to get caught -- in-line with the 2nd comment: ------- "They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
Stewart Air Force Base [My note: Home of the 105th Airlift Wing, New York Air National Guard] Excerpts from Pilots For 9-11 Truth Forum > Stewart Afb Another Source Says: "Stewart International Airport is the nation's first privatized commercial airport and operates under a 99-year lease agreement with the New York State Department of Transportation. National Express Group operates Stewart International Airport and is the United State's subsidiary of the National Express Group, PLC, in the United Kingdom." Comment at the site: Who said another aircraft took off from Stewart? Again.. if a switch took place with an aircraft departing [Stewart].. that aircraft would have to have incredible power in order to climb and intercept at cruising speed directly over or near Stewart. Unanswered Comment at the site: Something just occurred to me. Wasn't the pilot of Flight 175 asked to look to see if he could sight Flight 11? From what I remember, it was within the next few minutes that Flight 175 was "hijacked". Hmmmmm. Could there be something to that? Edited for spelling at the bracketed insert of first Comment. ------- "They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
Careful now, that YOU finger pointing is not nice. Not a clue young man. Mental or written notes to satisfy others, would clutter up my mind.
After this young man, before pointing negative fingers, do a check on the subject. Here is the mans name and the story. ANYONE THAT HAD ANY INTEREST IN 911 SHOULD HAVE KNOWN THIS GENTLEMAN FROM DAY ONE, NOT YEARS LATER. "Man who grounded 4,000 planes on 9/11 was on first day of his job As terrorists seized control of four airplanes on Sept. 11th, 2001, Ben Sliney, chief of air-traffic-control operations at the FAA's command center in Herndon, Va., gave the unprecedented order to ground 4,000-plus planes across the nation and redirect any in the sky to the nearest airport. It was his first day on the job. On Sept. 11th, 2001, terrorists hijacked four American commercial jets with the intention of crashing them into the twin towers of the World Trade Center in New York City, and the Pentagon and U.S. Capitol in Washington, D.C. The terrorists were successful in three of their four targets with the fourth plane's assault on the Capitol building was thwarted by heroic passengers on board. While we now know no other planes were hijacked, at the time, each of the 4,000-plus flights in American air space were potential risks. But due to Ben Sliney, the Federal Aviation Administration's National Operations Manager on duty that fateful morning, possible harm, at least by the thinking at the time, was averted. Sliney made the gutsy — and completely unprecedented — call to ground every single commercial airplane in the country. Man who grounded 4,000 planes on 9/11 was on first day of his jobWhat makes the call — which, without direct order from the President and the bureaucracy above him, was his and his alone to make — all the more gutsy is that Sept. 11th, 2001, was Ben Sliney's first day on the job as an FAA National Operations Manager. Although that's not to say Sliney was some neophyte making a cowboy-like call. He had 25 years of experience in air traffic control as part of FAA management, including a leadership position at New York TRACON, which has responsibility over all air traffic for New York City's three major airports and the smaller, regional airports in the New York City area. But the decision to ground the planes — that was entirely Sliney's. In fact, it's such a great story that when Universal Pictures decided to turn the heroism of the passengers of United Flight 93 into a movie, they not only didn't overlook Sliney's role — they asked him to play himself in the movie. Which he did. Sliney's decision is a great testament to the belief that doing the right thing sometimes requires a risky choice. Sliney made the right one." Cyni...
Don't be absurd. It was your posted impression of SCATANA implementation by an FAA "peon" (as you said) that was being questioned -- not someone else's and not "finger pointing". You not only expect (as Jews do similarly) to be exempt from direct questioning but now claim to be exempt above all others here from request for a reference, as if you shouldn't be bothered with "notes to satisfy others" regarding your baloney statement? ------- "They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
Might it be Stewart AFB? 9/11 Flight Paths & Stewart Air Base Sorry about the bad link on the last try in post 25, this time the link should work. PS: Flights 11 and 175 were 767's, not 757's. It was Flight 77 which allegedly struck the Pentagon which was a 757. That link doesn't work. Thanks for the heads up. Couldn't edit the original post since too much time has gone by, but I've reposted it in post 50. It could have already been airborne with its transponder turned off. My friend preceded Mr. Sliney from out of the NYC common IFR room and preceded him as a manager at the control center. It was well known that it was he that took action, not VP Cheney. He risked everything, Cheney risked nothing.
What say you now sir?????
Maybe a video would be more convincing? See http://www.c-spanvideo.org/program/295417-1
Thanks... Friend of mine had that job a few years ago after I retired. Many people are afraid of or are unable to recognize reality. That is what we have here. There is no excuse for being obtuse about something when it is obvious to others that an enlightened background is missing. Failure to avail oneself of what is available is basis for forming wrong opinions that defy gravity.
Unfortunately its a human trait that just keeps giving ... giving me a headache.
That is what we have here. There is no excuse for being obtuse about something when it is obvious to others that an enlightened background is missing. Failure to avail oneself of what is available is basis for forming wrong opinions that defy gravity. I love you C But that post was marvelous nonsense. Good thing you and I can. I've heard of Sliney and am reposting this article (which I linked here Dec. of last year) that mentions him: Sliney’s clients included financial investors who were accused of Securities and Exchange violations. In one 1998 case, he represented Steven K. Gourlay, Jr., an employee of Sterling Foster. It was reported that Sterling Foster was “secretly controlled” by Randolph Pace and was at the center of "one of the most notorious scams ever.”[5] Sliney got Gourlay’s charges dropped in 1998 but, in a related 2002 case, Gourlay pled guilty to conspiracy to commit securities fraud, mail fraud and wire fraud, and was sentenced to six months in prison.[6,7] In the summer of 2000, Sliney represented Merrill Lynch in a case in which the delay of the transfer of clients’ funds to Smith Barney was said to have “caused their investments with Merrill, Lynch to lose some $638,000 in value.” Sliney was able to get Merrill Lynch off the hook.[8] For whatever reasons, Sliney decided to leave his lucrative law career behind just months before 9/11 in order to return to the FAA. It was reported that Jack Kies, FAA’s manager of tactical operations, offered Sliney the job of Command Center national operations manager. Instead, Sliney asked to work as a specialist and he started in that role. Kies offered Sliney the national operations manager position again six months later and Sliney accepted.[9] His first day on the job was 9/11/01. [sic] Several of the FAA’s top people confirmed that the military was engaged and knew about the hijackings early on. This included Jeff Griffith at the Command Center and Monte Belger, the FAA’s acting Deputy Administrator, who was present at FAA Headquarters. Belger stated that -- “[T]here were military people on duty at the FAA Command Center, as Mr. Sliney said. They were participating in what was going on. There were military people in the FAA’s Air Traffic Organization in a situation room. They were participating in what was going on.”[13] When a new, honest investigation is finally convened, it should look into why a lawyer, who knew how to handle evidence and get financiers off the hook, was experiencing his first day on the job as national operation manager at the FAA. ------- "They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
I believe the Kene (sp) report supports this. Grey, verbiage will not paper over rudeness and a lack of self enlightenment.
Return to sender. You are assisting in the propagation of myths that can jeopardize national security. Since 9/11, people have been conditioned to think there's nothing unusual about a VP hijacking control of our Military by issuing Defense orders - - or, as you've suggested, that they are lax if they don't; that the FAA has the power, if it so chooses, to scramble our Military fighter jets and bypass Military steps in order to enforce the wishes of whoever at the FAA; that someone like Sliney can overrule Military authority if they want to regarding SCATANA procedures. ------- "They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
Grey... Again, rudeness and gross verbosity does not paper over the lack of intelligent discourse.
Thanks for your input, tom. transcript 9-11 Commission Hearings for June 17, 2004 (washingtonpost.com) History Commons -- SCATANA ------- "They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
Again, return to sender. In other words, you have nothing but redundant and demeaning barbs in reply to the issue of jeopardizing national security with baseless myth conditioning. ------- "They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
It could have already been airborne with its transponder turned off. But transponder off wouldn't mean invisible until then, as you know. Thanks for correcting the link. Edited last sentence. ------- "They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
Grey... I refuse to write you off as a hopeless case. Open your mind, drop the personal negativity, there is a world of knowledge out there to be absorbed for free. Example...Ten years after the fact, someone has to educate you with what everyone else has long known. That is very telling and my last word until you open your mind, and LISTEN. Cyni...
In terms of primary radar, blips can be merged tranparently by a lower altitude plane climbing from below radar altitude, while maintaining the same geographical position as the other aircraft. A swap could be made by both aircraft flying side by side momentarily, then the original aircraft descends at such a rate and airspeed to match the position of the upper aircraft, till it is below radar altitude. It's probably one good reason why the FAA destroyed the statements of the controllers that day which may have included an observation that for a moment, the primary blip for Flight 77 and 175 got a little bigger. But then again, if the transponders hadn't been turned off yet, would they had even been tracking them on primary radar at that point? In reference to the destroyed FAA tape... F.A.A. Official Scrapped Tape of 9/11 Controllers' Statements The taping began before noon on Sept. 11 at the New York Air Route Traffic Control Center, in Ronkonkoma, on Long Island, where about 16 people met in a basement conference room known as "the Bat Cave" and passed around a microphone, each recalling his or her version of the events a few hours earlier. But officials at the center never told higher-ups of the tape's existence, and it was later destroyed by an F.A.A. official described in the report as a quality-assurance manager there. That manager crushed the cassette in his hand, shredded the tape and dropped the pieces into different trash cans around the building, according to a report made public today by the inspector general of the Transportation Department. I refuse to write you off as a hopeless case. Open your mind, drop the personal negativity, there is a world of knowledge out there to be absorbed for free. Example...Ten years after the fact, someone has to educate you with what everyone else has long known. That is very telling and my last word until you open your mind, and LISTEN. Cyni... I don't know what you're talking about. Sliney wasn't news to me. I reposted a link by me from last year with excerpts as evidence of that and for your perusal regarding your vague "peon" statement. Apparently, that abbreviated info was too much for you to absorb, like other research that conflicts much with the official and popular mantras. [Edit to add: You assessed it as "verbiage".] Perhaps you think that you should be exempt from studying the situation while directing others to do that -- Do as you say, not as you do. Drop your personal negativity. I could remove the word "baloney" at post #49 (in reply to your dismissive refusal of an explanatory reference at that point) and the issue of jeopardizing national security by misleading the public into conditioned mythos-acceptance of national security breaches at various levels would be the same. Evidently, you still have nothing to say about that other than to degrade my knowledge of this matter. Edited for hyphenation, punctuation and bracketed insert. ------- "They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
Good question. ------- "They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
911Timeline.net - The Most Comprehensive Minute By Minute Timeline On 911 8) 7:59 a.m.: American Airlines Flight 11 a Boeing 767-223ER with a maximum capacity of 181 passengers and 23,980 gallons of fuel, lifts off from Logan International Airport in Boston, Massachusetts, bound for Los Angeles International Airport in Los Angeles, California. Take-off was scheduled for 7:45. I've learned the hard way that being at the airport to board by departure time wasn't early enough to be seated, due to the door being closed for pre-flight steps that had to be conducted prior to scheduled lift-off. Am wondering if the official story indicates that some sort of special boarding arrangement was made for the alleged hijackers. ------- "They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
I was taught civility, long ago. The first example drummed into my thick head was this: "Winston Churchill once said..."It costs me nothing to be civil to a man, even though I intend to hang him tomorrow". ON this forum, I am very often labeled as dumb, stupid, ignorant and those are the kind and generous ones. At times posters use language that describes what they really think. At the end of the day, I will have proven myself ignorant at best, but I did try to be civil doing it. Did not cost me a cent.
No knowledge of this. I do know years ago, people at the olde CAA had no protection from liability while doing their job as directed. Every word was taped, stamped, filed and stored. It finally took an act of Congress to relieve workers from liability. Anytime there was an event, lawyers descended like locusts, suing everyone in sight, the man at the bottom could end up penniless trying to protect himself. Once the government accepted the legal burden, the lawyers looked elsewhere for money.
Malarkey. What you tried to do here in your responses to me is exempt yourself from civility with an autocratic double standard equating any attempt to debate you as finger-pointing, rudeness, verbiage, gross verbiage, lack of self- enlightenment and intelligent discourse, negativity and so on. Edited for spelling. ------- "They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
And most of us find it salutary to actually practice important lessons we were taught. I'm glad to see I'm not the only one who knows he's full of shit. He pulls out the "civility" canard when he's had his ass handed to him on a plate an can no longer defend his position. Then he runs away. Calling Ron Paul an isolationist is like calling your neighbor a hermit because he doesn't come over and break your window - unknown I WITHDRAW MY CONSENT! This tactic is well described in "Compromised" by Terry Reed (I think) detailing how drug shipments were dropped into the US by Barry Seal et al. I asked an AF fighter pilot, my neighbor, if it would work, and he answered affirmative. Yeh that's what I do with unimportant tapes that I know nobody will ever be interested and deal with unimportant issues. Perhaps my civility classes would be beneficial????? People that do not function well in open society find such very helpful.
People that do not function well in open society find such very helpful. Because...they're not functioning well or they'd know better than to take a class in civility from you, Mr. Double Standards Autocrat? ------- "They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
Fan would feel much better if he were a Fan of Salma Hayek. She has a calming effect on men that are troubled.
People that do not function well in open society find such very helpful. Cowards like to make see-through excuses and run away when they've been cornered instead of manning up and admitting they were wrong or admitting defeat or just outright saying that they no longer want to argue the issue. You fool no one. Calling Ron Paul an isolationist is like calling your neighbor a hermit because he doesn't come over and break your window - unknown I WITHDRAW MY CONSENT!
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Top • Page Up • Full Thread • Page Down • Bottom/LatestGuessing that the very least of the mossad's worries was the cost of the murals on the van.
Perhaps by getting "caught" up front and then being summarily dismissed it would end any kind of speculation or investigation of whoever this faction is. You know how people say: "if their was a story there the press would do anything to go after it." So if the topic came up people would think: "oh, they looked into that early on and there was nothing there, otherwise why would they just let those people go."
#46. To: All (#40)
(Edited)
Stewart Air Force Base: 1940s, Orange County, Newburgh. Stewart International Airport is located almost entirely in the Town of New Windsor, Orange County, New York. The "Stewart Newburgh" designation used by the airlines is that the Stewart family gave the land to the City of Newburgh for a city airport in the 1930's. Stewart is named after Capt. Lachlan Stewart, who skippered schooners and other sailing vessels about 1850-1870. During World War II the City of Newburgh turned the airport over to the United States Government for the purposes of training West Point cadets to fly. The field grew and at the end of World War II it became Stewart Air Force Base. Stewart was used for North American Air Defense (Headquarters US Army Air Defense Command Region I) until 1972, when the Air Force determined that the base was excess, and deeded Stewart Air Force Base to the State of New York. See also SAGE for information on Air Defense Control Center, control for Suffolk BOMARCs. Now Stewart Army Sub Post of West Point, Stewart International Airport, and the New York Air National Guard has the largest C-5 Unit at Stewart. The Marine Corps also maintains a wing of C-130 aircraft at Stewart. The two military organizations occupy brand new state of the art military facilites. Stewart International Airport has 15,000 ft runway, the longest on the eastern seaboard.
"At the end of the 20th century it became the first U.S. commercial airport to be privatized when United Kingdom-based National Express Group was awarded a 99-year lease on the airport."
#47. To: GreyLmist (#41)
Where did you get the impression that an FAA person ordered SCATANA implemented rather than the Military?
#48. To: GreyLmist, Phant2000, All (#41)
#49. To: Cynicom (#47)
Careful now, that YOU finger pointing is not nice.
Not a clue
young man. Mental or written notes to satisfy others, would clutter up my mind.
#50. To: tom007, GreyLMist, *9-11* (#18)
Thanks FL.There's a lot of material there. I thought the salient fact was that one of the jets performance perimeters were entirely consistent with a 757 until shortly after it passed over a military base, then it's performance became impossible for a 757 to perform. The "Magic Airplane" of our time, it would seem.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#51. To: GreyLmist (#40)
9/11 Flight Paths & Stewart Air Base
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#52. To: GreyLmist (#46)
Again.. if a switch took place with an aircraft departing [Stewart].. that aircraft would have to have incredible power in order to climb and intercept at cruising speed directly over or near Stewart.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#53. To: GreyLmist (#49)
#54. To: GreyLmist, All (#49)
regarding your baloney statement?
#55. To: Cynicom (#48)
ANYONE THAT HAD ANY INTEREST IN 911 SHOULD HAVE KNOWN THIS GENTLEMAN FROM DAY ONE ...
#56. To: Phant2000 (#55)
#57. To: Cynicom (#56)
Many people are afraid of or are unable to recognize reality.
#58. To: Cynicom (#56)
Many people are afraid of or are unable to recognize reality.
"Satan / Cheney in "08" 
#59. To: Cynicom (#56)
Many people are afraid of or are unable to recognize reality.
"Satan / Cheney in "08"
#60. To: Cynicom (#56)
Failure to avail oneself of what is available is basis for forming wrong opinions that defy gravity.
Benedict Sliney was an ATC in the US Air Force during the Vietnam War and, after that, worked at the FAA for the first half of his professional career. In the 1980s, Sliney went on from the FAA to work as an attorney and continued in that career throughout the 1990s. He worked for several law firms during this time, handling various kinds of cases, and he was a partner in some of those firms.
#61. To: GreyLmist (#60)
Several of the FAA’s top people confirmed that the military was engaged and knew about the hijackings early on.
"Satan / Cheney in "08"
#62. To: GreyLmist (#60)
#63. To: Cynicom (#62)
Grey, verbiage will not paper over rudeness and a lack of self enlightenment.
#64. To: GreyLmist (#63)
#65. To: tom007 (#61)
General Eberhart: our SCATANA said, "Leave the nav aids on." Our SCATANA said, "FAA, you still control the traffic that's flying." Our SCATANA said, "Law enforcement and Flight For Life can continue to fly." We don't want to ground them during this terrible tragedy. And then procedures for getting waivers to fly.
#66. To: Cynicom (#64)
Again, rudeness and gross verbosity does not paper over the lack of intelligent discourse.
#67. To: FormerLurker (#52)
(Edited)
Again.. if a switch took place with an aircraft departing [Stewart].. that aircraft would have to have incredible power in order to climb and intercept at cruising speed directly over or near Stewart.
#68. To: GreyLmist (#66)
#69. To: GreyLmist (#67)
But transponder off wouldn't mean invisible until then, as you know.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#70. To: GreyLmist, tom007, Cynicom, randge, All (#67)
WASHINGTON, May 6 — At least six air traffic controllers who dealt with two of the hijacked airliners on Sept. 11, 2001, made a tape recording that same day describing the events, but the tape was destroyed by a supervisor without anyone making a transcript or even listening to it, the Transportation Department said in a report today.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#71. To: Cynicom (#68)
(Edited)
Grey...
#72. To: FormerLurker (#69)
But then again, if the transponders hadn't been turned off yet, would they had even been tracking them on primary radar at that point?
#73. To: FormerLurker, *9-11* (#25)
PS: Flights 11 and 175 were 767's,
7) 7:45 a.m.: Mohammed Atta and Abdulaziz Alomari board American Airlines Flight 11.
#74. To: tom007 (#58)
But that post was marvelous nonsense.
#75. To: FormerLurker (#70)
#76. To: Cynicom (#74)
(Edited)
I did try to be civil doing it.
#77. To: Cynicom (#74)
(Edited)
I was taught civility, long ago.
#78. To: GreyLmist, Cynicom (#76)
What you tried to do here in your responses to me is exempt yourself from civility with an autocratic double standard equating any attempt to debate you as finger-pointing, rudeness, verbiage, gross verbiage, lack of self- enlightenment and intelligent discourse, negativity and so on.
Any perceived compliance with unconstitutional “laws” or orders put forth by government employees is NOT recognition of their authority; it is simply the result of carefully calculated submission to an entity exhibiting superior firepower.
#79. To: FormerLurker (#69)
In terms of primary radar, blips can be merged tranparently by a lower altitude plane climbing from below radar altitude, while maintaining the same geographical position as the other aircraft. A swap could be made by both aircraft flying side by side momentarily, then the original aircraft descends at such a rate and airspeed to match the position of the upper aircraft, till it is below radar altitude.
"Satan / Cheney in "08"
#80. To: FormerLurker (#70)
But officials at the center never told higher-ups of the tape's existence, and it was later destroyed by an F.A.A. official described in the report as a quality-assurance manager there. That manager crushed the cassette in his hand, shredded the tape and dropped the pieces into different trash cans around the building, according to a report made public today by the inspector general of the Transportation Department
"Satan / Cheney in "08"
#81. To: F.A. Hayek Fan (#78)
I'm glad to see I'm not the only one who knows he's full of shit. He pulls out the "civility" canard when he's had his ass handed to him on a plate an can no longer defend his position. Then he runs away.
#82. To: Cynicom, F.A. Hayek Fan (#81)
Perhaps my civility classes would be beneficial?????
#83. To: GreyLmist (#82)
Because...they're not functioning well or they'd know better than to take a class in civility from you, Mr. Double Standards Autocrat?
#84. To: Cynicom (#81)
Perhaps my civility classes would be beneficial?????
Any perceived compliance with unconstitutional “laws” or orders put forth by government employees is NOT recognition of their authority; it is simply the result of carefully calculated submission to an entity exhibiting superior firepower.
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