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9/11
See other 9/11 Articles

Title: Smoke and Mirrors videos-controversy topic
Source: various
URL Source: http://freedom4um.com/cgi-bin/reada ... gi?ArtNum=149329&Disp=671#C671
Published: Sep 29, 2012
Author: Me and various
Post Date: 2012-09-29 01:19:12 by GreyLmist
Keywords: 9/11, NIST, PBS, CBS
Views: 2079
Comments: 94

Relevant info on this topic is accessible through posts #586 and #671 linked below:

4um Title: How 9-11 Was Done

Post #586 -- videos, links, and details

Post #671 -- WETA/PBS addendum info

Poster Comment:

Tangential discussion starting point [#103] at 4um Title: Pilots Analyze the Government Provided Radar Data of the Planes of 9-11, if needed for referencing here.

Post Comment   Private Reply   Ignore Thread  

Begin Trace Mode for Comment # 55.

#9. To: All, *9-11*, *No Planers* (#0) (Edited)

This is an addendum for references on an additional documentary circa 2003 (Ref. web.archive.org: 911conspiracy.tv - 2nd WTC Attack Videos - CBS3: "The Center of the World - New York: A Documentary Film" | PBS, Lisa Ades, Ric Burns, and David Ogden Stiers, narrator) that is said to be the origin of the now unavailable Detroit Public TV documentary footage (referenced at the start of the Smoke and Mirrors long- version video with the Detroit Public TV logo and also in the 8-sec. US Department of Commerce/NIST video with the WETA logo for Washington D.C. PBS; Ref. Posts #586 and #671).

In comparison to the Smoke and Mirrors (long version) PBS footage: All of the original CBS news footage that I've viewed up to this point of the Empire State Building angle likewise shows the plane image as if it appears out of nowhere to the right of the Empire State Building or from behind it, depending on which broadcast segments are being reported/discussed. Also, in all of the available PBS video-clip examples that I've noted above, the screen jumps as if spliced like the Smoke and Mirrors segment does. Neither of these issues (the appearance of the plane image as if out of nowhere and the screen jump as if spliced) should be attributed to tampering by whomever authored the Smoke and Mirrors analysis videos at the terrorize.dk site or to Elpiper who posted them at YouTube in May and June of 2008 because they are evidenced in MSM CBS and PBS film of 9/11. The color darkening seen more in the Smoke and Mirrors short-version is similar to an MSM Chopper view that I'll try to relocate and post as an example. The copied smoke alteration is debateable as to how and from what source that happened and there could be some interpretive problems with the wording of the comments in the video analyses. It is still my impression as of now, though, from what I can recall of much earlier discussions about this video topic, that the coloration and smoke copying was for dramatic effect by the Media to promote the Iraq war.

At watchdocumentary.com: The biggest source of free documentaries to watch online

Segment 4 at 1:17

New York: A Documentary Film - Episode 08: The Center of the World (1946–2003)

YouTube Playlist by me of the documentary: PBS, New York - 8 Center Of The World -- 7 videos, duration 1:30:50, go to 1:17 of video #4 for comparisons with the other footage in question.

Description excerpts:

New York: A Documentary Film is an eight-part, 17½ hour, American documentary film on the history of New York City. It was directed by Ric Burns and originally aired in the U.S. on PBS. The film was a co-production of Thirteen New York and WGBH Boston.

The documentary is divided into eight parts: * Episode One: The Country and the City (1609--1825) * Episode Two: Order and Disorder (1825--1865) * Episode Three: Sunshine and Shadow (1865--1898) * Episode Four: The Power and the People (1898--1918) * Episode Five: Cosmopolis (1919--1931) * Episode Six: City of Tomorrow (1929--1941) * Episode Seven: The City and the World (1945--2000) * Episode Eight: The Center of the World (1946--2003)

Additional References:

Film Credits . New York The Center of the World . WGBH American Experience - PBS

freerepublic.com: PBS TV -- The Center of the World (a WTC history)

Edit to insert a PBS notation in paragraph 2.

GreyLmist  posted on  2012-10-01   5:48:59 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

One more thing GL. Being that apparently the "Smoke and Mirrors" video is the "best" evidence you can drag off the net in terms of supporting your theory, it should be clear that your theory doesn't hold water.

It's obvious to me that this video is quite important to you, since if it wasn't you'd move on to better things to research and investigate. Being that at least I know that this video is a complete fraud, you're never going to convince me of what you're peddling, although I'm sure you'll be tap dancing all over the forum trying to convince others that it's bonafide evidence.

Yep, it's bonafide evidence alright. Evidence that someone released a doctored video to PBS stations for broadcast, and then others either out of malice or ignorance decided that it's "evidence" of the "no planes" theory.

Since the author of the "Smoke and Mirrors" video claims expertise, and he even includes the source CBS footage in his extended video, it's apparent that he's not doing it out of ignorance.

FormerLurker  posted on  2012-10-01   11:08:20 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

It's obvious to me that this video is quite important to you, since if it wasn't you'd move on to better things to research and investigate.

I would like to move on now to better things to research and investigate. This is a link set for 10:24 of video #3 in the Playlist linked above for the PBS documentary: PBS, New York - 8 Center Of The World (3/7). Set the video below to that mark too. Any comment on the very oddly shaped plane image shown in that PBS doc clip at 10:24?

Edited sentence 1.

GreyLmist  posted on  2012-10-04   14:42:17 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

It's obvious to me that this video is quite important to you, since if it wasn't you'd move on to better things to research and investigate.

I would like to move on now to better things to research and investigate. This is a link set for 10:24 of video #3 in the Playlist linked above for the PBS documentary: PBS, New York - 8 Center Of The World (3/7). Set the video below to that mark too. Any comment on the very oddly shaped plane image shown in that PBS doc clip at 10:24?

Edited sentence 1.

THAT WAS FREAKING EPIC!!!

The devil of the details... It took me a moment but I saw what you pointed out...

People you all see it right? In his PBS doc vid he linked... The plane engines.... Where should they be? On the wings or on the tail?

Look again at the video.

And ask yourself why they are using images of fake planes? and How much of the footage was fake planes.

titorite  posted on  2012-10-04   21:31:51 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

THAT WAS FREAKING EPIC!!!

..... tap dancing ......

People you all see it right? In his PBS doc vid he linked... The plane engines.... Where should they be? On the wings or on the tail?

As far as that PBS video, just as I thought. You're going to use that as "no planes" evidence. For one, not only is that NOT a clip from 9/11, it is either a dramatized image or a doctored one, PBS has ALREADY aired doctored footage from SOMEONE, who exactly isn't quite clear yet.

I find it an odd coincidence that you're bringing this stuff up on the net right about the same time PBS is airing the Architects for 9/11 Truth video. A guilt by association sort of thing, isn't it tit.

FormerLurker  posted on  2012-10-04   21:39:55 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

I find it revealing that your logic does not apply to yourself.

I mean you are being shown the inconsistent images... The images from the mainstream images you can get from their websites in their caches with the same flaws of the conspirators still left in ....

And yet you refuse to accept the truth in front of your eyes.

STOP LETTING ANTIQUE PROPAGANDA CONTROL YOUR THOUGHTS!

WTF is PBS in on the no plane theory too?!?! They made that vid just to get to you? is that it? Is that what you think?! That everything in the world revolves around you and your internet pronouncements of what is fact and what is not? Get real man.

titorite  posted on  2012-10-04   22:11:36 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

If you WON'T answer the simple yes or no question, then I have to assume that you ARE a shill here on the forum, specifically to target and attack those who are a bit too close in terms of what REALLY happened on the morning of 9/11/2001.

Let me ask you this ONE more time.

Do you think the "Smoke and Mirrors" video is actual proof of the "no planes" theory?

FormerLurker  posted on  2012-10-05   2:49:31 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

If you WON'T answer the simple yes or no question, then I have to assume that you ARE a shill here on the forum, specifically to target and attack those who are a bit too close in terms of what REALLY happened on the morning of 9/11/2001.

Let me ask you this ONE more time.

Do you think the "Smoke and Mirrors" video is actual proof of the "no planes" theory?

No , you are just acting like a dick head.

Your questions have been answered , fuck you for dragging my friends into this you piece of shit. They have no reference here. They have not been following the conversation of your trolling fucking antics.

I hope you get a virus today you fuck stain.

I mean bother me all you want but leave others that have nothing to do with this OUT OF THIS .... fucking jack boot thug

titorite  posted on  2012-10-05   7:19:47 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

So I guess it's official, you ARE a shill. It's quite apparent that you have no intent of having a civil discussion concerning this, you're only here to harrass and disrupt the forum with your antics.

FormerLurker  posted on  2012-10-05   10:40:15 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

Shill? Fuck your shill bullshit

Former Lurker you have entered full on scum bag territory when you attempted to drag my friends into this fuck you lying scum bag piece of shit.

What on gods green earth makes you think you are any better then any other scum bag? You attempt to drag innocent people into a conflict they have nothing to do with.

You attempt to use them as an intellectual weapon against me.

Trully you do no service to any truth movement.....

You're worthless lying punk ass is in no better place than pasted to that chair you filth.

titorite  posted on  2012-10-05   16:09:38 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

All you've done here is spew accusations and profanities, while at the same time putting on a tap dance routine, ducking and dodging the very simple question I asked of you.

Again, just one last try here.

Do you feel that the Smoke and Mirrors video is a fraud, or do you think it's real footage which proves the "no plane" theory?

FormerLurker  posted on  2012-10-05   16:28:32 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

All you've done here is spew accusations and profanities, while at the same time putting on a tap dance routine, ducking and dodging the very simple question I asked of you.

Again, just one last try here.

Do you feel that the Smoke and Mirrors video is a fraud, or do you think it's real footage which proves the "no plane" theory?

9-11 jump-ping to video issue highlighted below.

I'm guessing, FL, that you think you're on some sort of entrapment enforcement mission with your false dichotomy/false dilemma/either-or fallacy hammerings when those aren't even the real choices, much less the only options realistically. You should already know by now that "Neither" would be the actual answer in truth to your Inquisitions about it. Once again, they are a Media Fakery issue with focus on the smoke and explosion anomalies in a Detroit PBS program depicting 9/11, not a No Planes Theory "powerpoint" demo. Being mistaken about when the footage was originally broadcast does not equate to fraud.

As I've already told you, it is the original MSM CBS-footage itself that shows the plane image appearing out of nowhere from the Empire State Building angle and you've also posted video showing the same thing yourself. If you can find original CBS footage from that Empire State Building angle which doesn't show the plane as if appearing out of nowhere, post it here for us but I couldn't find any. It is the PBS film that shows a splice jump and an example of that can be seen in the 2003 PBS "Center of the World" documentary that I posted above, which was aired several years before the Smoke and Mirrors analysis videos were posted at YouTube in 2008.

As for your 1st paragraph of spurious aspersions, this was your response to titorite after he posted a Smoke and Mirrors link for you to consider in the anomalous smoke discussion. Ref. 4um Title: How 9/11 Was Done; titorite at Post #350. FL at Post #355: "I dare say if you looked beyond your ass, you'd see that you've been wrong in EVERYTHING you've said,"

This is an example of titorite editing a post to you in an effort of civility:

Ref. Post #123 of 4um Title: Pilots Analyze the Government Provided Radar Data of the Planes of 9-11

Edited for civility.

Haven't seen any such example from you, FL, but this was your uncivil response to dodge what I'd asked of you more than once:

Post #111 of 4um Title: Pilots Analyze the Government Provided Radar Data of the Planes of 9-11

Me: I've spent a lot of time addressing your concerns and would like to hear your explanation for why there was little to no smoke damage at the WTC [Towers and Bldg. 7 too] as well as how WTC 1 was insignificantly impacted by flying projectiles when WTC 2 was demolished.

FL: Are you high? "Little to no smoke damage"? Are you trying to say there were no fires at all, and THAT was faked too?

Do you truly believe what you write?

As far as WTC 1, WTF are you talking about in terms of "insignificantly impacted by flying projectiles"?

I posted an example in that very thread at #137 as to what I mean by WTC 1 being insignificantly impacted by flying projectiles when WTC 2 was demolished. Here it is again, FL, in case you missed it and would care to explain the phenomenon this time:

WCBS 9-11 9:50 - 10:00 -- at the 1:27 and 6:30 marks

Edited sentence 1 for readability formatting.

GreyLmist  posted on  2012-10-05   23:47:45 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

This is what I've observed from the both of you. Neither one of you will pin down exactly what it is you're claiming, although titorite has previously stated that NO planes existed which were identified as hijacked aircraft that morning, and that the entire thing was fabricated.

He will not say one way or the other if he feels that the "Smoke and Mirrors" video is a fraud, but WILL get violently upset if I ask him about it.

You have posted repetitive posts stating the same thing for the past several weeks now, between this thread and the previous thread concerning Israeli Mossad involvement with the attacks, fluctuating between the authenticity of the "Smoke and Mirrors" video (proven to be using fake video, although presented as if it were an analysis of original footage), your claims that the smoke plumes were travelling in different directions (proven to be untrue), and some nebulous comment about "no damage from the collapse of the WTC 2 tower".

And of course, you have also used occasional ad hominem attacks against myself, acting all butt hurt over my responses to you and your pal, who has hurled more profanities and obscenities at not just me but others who disagreed with him, than anyone else I've seen post on this forum.

But between trying to convince people that the smoke plumes were fake, that the planes were fake, that the collapses were fake, all the while overlooking the actual evidence which proves differently, you haven't really stated what YOU think happened.

So what part of the attacks do you think were real, and those parts which were "faked" in your opinion, HOW were they "faked"?

FormerLurker  posted on  2012-10-06   10:07:29 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

#62. To: FormerLurker (#55) (Edited)

This is what I've observed from the both of you. Neither one of you will pin down exactly what it is you're claiming, although titorite has previously stated that NO planes existed which were identified as hijacked aircraft that morning, and that the entire thing was fabricated.

He will not say one way or the other if he feels that the "Smoke and Mirrors" video is a fraud, but WILL get violently upset if I ask him about it.

You have posted repetitive posts stating the same thing for the past several weeks now, between this thread and the previous thread concerning Israeli Mossad involvement with the attacks, fluctuating between the authenticity of the "Smoke and Mirrors" video (proven to be using fake video, although presented as if it were an analysis of original footage), your claims that the smoke plumes were travelling in different directions (proven to be untrue), and some nebulous comment about "no damage from the collapse of the WTC 2 tower".

And of course, you have also used occasional ad hominem attacks against myself, acting all butt hurt over my responses to you and your pal, who has hurled more profanities and obscenities at not just me but others who disagreed with him, than anyone else I've seen post on this forum.

You're going to have to post some example of an ad hominem attack against you by me because the only comment which comes close to such that I can recall is when I compared the way you were acting to a gila monster -- the legend being that, when they bite, they won't let go until sundown or until it thunders. I apologize if that offended you but do find it funny, if so, after all of your ad hominem inundations.

I don't know what you mean by "fluctuating between the authenticity of the Smoke and Mirrors video." I've always said that it was a Media Fakery for Iraq War propaganda purposes. The footage analyzed was anomalous. In my opinion, afaik, the poster/analyzer naively underestimated the duplicity of the documentary producers. The commission of fraud was on their part, not the poster/analyzer's. I told you how to contact Elpiper with your charges of dishonesty. My comment about insignificant damage to WTC 1 from projectiles flying from the fall of WTC 2 was not nebulous and I posted video so you could see for yourself that the Tower was not severely impacted by debris as other WTC buildings farther away were said to have been from such. You dismissed it. The smoke plume does lean to the left and also to the right in various footage, not just the examples debated, and there are different plane trajectories too. No amount of evidence is ever going to be admissable to you as viable, apparently, if it goes against your remote control belief system or whatever other narratives you're promoting -- kind of like all the courts that don't care about Article II, Section I Constitutionality regarding eligibility for Presidential office or not, just popular opinion.

But between trying to convince people that the smoke plumes were fake, that the planes were fake, that the collapses were fake, all the while overlooking the actual evidence which proves differently, you haven't really stated what YOU think happened.

So what part of the attacks do you think were real, and those parts which were "faked" in your opinion, HOW were they "faked"?

I'm a No Planes researcher and don't think that there were any real plane strikes at the WTC, at the Pentagon or in Pennsylvania. I've already told you that I don't claim to have all the answers about how the 9/11 illusion was faked. As I've also said before, there is evidence of film fakery and false witnesses and there is evidence that alleged Flights 11 and 77 didn't even fly that day, none of which makes any difference to you, I'm sure. Seems to me that nothing much is being accomplished in our debates except constant chaos, confusion, and misconstruances so I'm going to post some evidence in this thread on the witnesses, as I said I would, then we might as well just agree to disagree about 9/11 and be done with this mess.

Edited for spelling and paragraph 2 for clarity.

GreyLmist  posted on  2012-10-07 12:28:33 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

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