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Title: Smoke and Mirrors videos-controversy topic
Source:
various
URL Source: http://freedom4um.com/cgi-bin/reada ... gi?ArtNum=149329&Disp=671#C671
Published: Sep 29, 2012
Author: Me and various
Post Date: 2012-09-29 01:19:12 by GreyLmist
Keywords: 9/11, NIST, PBS, CBS
Views: 3105
Comments: 94
Relevant info on this topic is accessible through posts #586 and #671 linked below: 4um Title: How 9-11 Was Done Post #671 -- WETA/PBS addendum info Poster Comment: Tangential discussion starting point [#103] at 4um Title: Pilots Analyze the Government Provided Radar Data of the Planes of 9-11, if needed for referencing here.Post #586 -- videos, links, and details
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#36. To: titorite. christine, Lod, All, *9-11* (#34)
If you WON'T answer the simple yes or no question, then I have to assume that you ARE a shill here on the forum, specifically to target and attack those who are a bit too close in terms of what REALLY happened on the morning of 9/11/2001. Let me ask you this ONE more time. Do you think the "Smoke and Mirrors" video is actual proof of the "no planes" theory? You have a way of using a lot of posts to do nothing much but berate and inject interference. Who's head over heals about the Smoke and Mirrors topic? You, obviously. I told you I wanted to move on from that to more important things but you refuse and continue your onslaughts, demanding answers and not providing any to speak of. Who do you think you are? You act like a gila monster. bbl ------- "They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
Let me ask you this ONE more time. Do you think the "Smoke and Mirrors" video is actual proof of the "no planes" theory? No , you are just acting like a dick head. Your questions have been answered , fuck you for dragging my friends into this you piece of shit. They have no reference here. They have not been following the conversation of your trolling fucking antics. I hope you get a virus today you fuck stain. I mean bother me all you want but leave others that have nothing to do with this OUT OF THIS .... fucking jack boot thug ____________________________________________________________ . . . The US government has declared civil war on itself. Its lust for war grew so great... Liberty before death. We run , we live, We fight again, till we win. We did not start this fight. We damn sure did not willingly pay our taxes to buy the bullets and drones that shall be used to kill us. We will correct the violations of this rogue nation....our rogue nation. We will fix this because nobody else can. You will work to help me help us all to fix this failure. After you're done educating yourself, Action!!!
So I guess it's official, you ARE a shill. It's quite apparent that you have no intent of having a civil discussion concerning this, you're only here to harrass and disrupt the forum with your antics.
And you. I HAVE commented on the PBS footage you posted. Are YOU trying to claim that image is a screen capture from 9/11?
Who posted this thread? Shill? Fuck your shill bullshit Former Lurker you have entered full on scum bag territory when you attempted to drag my friends into this fuck you lying scum bag piece of shit. What on gods green earth makes you think you are any better then any other scum bag? You attempt to drag innocent people into a conflict they have nothing to do with. You attempt to use them as an intellectual weapon against me. Trully you do no service to any truth movement..... You're worthless lying punk ass is in no better place than pasted to that chair you filth. ____________________________________________________________ . . . The US government has declared civil war on itself. Its lust for war grew so great... Liberty before death. We run , we live, We fight again, till we win. We did not start this fight. We damn sure did not willingly pay our taxes to buy the bullets and drones that shall be used to kill us. We will correct the violations of this rogue nation....our rogue nation. We will fix this because nobody else can. You will work to help me help us all to fix this failure. After you're done educating yourself, Action!!!
All you've done here is spew accusations and profanities, while at the same time putting on a tap dance routine, ducking and dodging the very simple question I asked of you. Again, just one last try here. Do you feel that the Smoke and Mirrors video is a fraud, or do you think it's real footage which proves the "no plane" theory? You lying sack of shit. You are the one full of accusations and as for obscenities and profanities , you could of done nothing more obscene and profane than to attempt to drag innocent bystanders into this silly troll fest of yours. Truly you are a scum bag beneath contempt. ____________________________________________________________ . . . The US government has declared civil war on itself. Its lust for war grew so great... Liberty before death. We run , we live, We fight again, till we win. We did not start this fight. We damn sure did not willingly pay our taxes to buy the bullets and drones that shall be used to kill us. We will correct the violations of this rogue nation....our rogue nation. We will fix this because nobody else can. You will work to help me help us all to fix this failure. After you're done educating yourself, Action!!!
Fuck, blah blah blah shit, blah blah blah asshole. See I can talk like you too. Like I said, it's quite apparent that you have no intention of admitting that the "Smoke and Mirrors" video is a fraud, since you're peddling it as the "real thing". MD-90?? Dirt Cheap Jumbo Jets. Just saying. Again, just one last try here. Do you feel that the Smoke and Mirrors video is a fraud, or do you think it's real footage which proves the "no plane" theory? 9-11 jump-ping to video issue highlighted below. I'm guessing, FL, that you think you're on some sort of entrapment enforcement mission with your false dichotomy/false dilemma/either-or fallacy hammerings when those aren't even the real choices, much less the only options realistically. You should already know by now that "Neither" would be the actual answer in truth to your Inquisitions about it. Once again, they are a Media Fakery issue with focus on the smoke and explosion anomalies in a Detroit PBS program depicting 9/11, not a No Planes Theory "powerpoint" demo. Being mistaken about when the footage was originally broadcast does not equate to fraud. As I've already told you, it is the original MSM CBS-footage itself that shows the plane image appearing out of nowhere from the Empire State Building angle and you've also posted video showing the same thing yourself. If you can find original CBS footage from that Empire State Building angle which doesn't show the plane as if appearing out of nowhere, post it here for us but I couldn't find any. It is the PBS film that shows a splice jump and an example of that can be seen in the 2003 PBS "Center of the World" documentary that I posted above, which was aired several years before the Smoke and Mirrors analysis videos were posted at YouTube in 2008. As for your 1st paragraph of spurious aspersions, this was your response to titorite after he posted a Smoke and Mirrors link for you to consider in the anomalous smoke discussion. Ref. 4um Title: How 9/11 Was Done; titorite at Post #350. FL at Post #355: "I dare say if you looked beyond your ass, you'd see that you've been wrong in EVERYTHING you've said," This is an example of titorite editing a post to you in an effort of civility: Ref. Post #123 of 4um Title: Pilots Analyze the Government Provided Radar Data of the Planes of 9-11 Haven't seen any such example from you, FL, but this was your uncivil response to dodge what I'd asked of you more than once: Post #111 of 4um Title: Pilots Analyze the Government Provided Radar Data of the Planes of 9-11 Do you truly believe what you write? As far as WTC 1, WTF are you talking about in terms of "insignificantly impacted by flying projectiles"? I posted an example in that very thread at #137 as to what I mean by WTC 1 being insignificantly impacted by flying projectiles when WTC 2 was demolished. Here it is again, FL, in case you missed it and would care to explain the phenomenon this time: WCBS 9-11 9:50 - 10:00 -- at the 1:27 and 6:30 marks Edited sentence 1 for readability formatting. ------- "They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
Thanks... Yeah.. I mentioned lod and christine a while back in that other thread... only as a means that he might ask some of the real people here if that I am a real person too. I was trying to be more polite in that moment. Then to see him drop those two names in another thread... and only as a means to get under my skin or maybe..(I really don't wanna think this) or maybe he meant to attempt to turn my friends on me.... Either way that was a sure fire way to push my buttons. ____________________________________________________________ . . . The US government has declared civil war on itself. Its lust for war grew so great... Liberty before death. We run , we live, We fight again, till we win. We did not start this fight. We damn sure did not willingly pay our taxes to buy the bullets and drones that shall be used to kill us. We will correct the violations of this rogue nation....our rogue nation. We will fix this because nobody else can. You will work to help me help us all to fix this failure. After you're done educating yourself, Action!!!
MD-90?? A McDonnell Douglas MD-90...yes, it does look like that and Delta Airlines is associated with those aircraft. It's almost like the "Center of the World" PBS documentary was confused about which Flight was said to have hit there and thought maybe it was the Delta 1989 suspected hijack. Can't imagine why they would have used that fake insert for a supposed "dramatization", what with all of the dramatic MSM imagery of alleged United Airlines and American Airlines plane strikes at the WTC that day. ------- "They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
It is the PBS film that shows a splice jump and an example of that can be seen in the 2003 PBS "Center of the World" documentary that I posted above, which was aired several years before the Smoke and Mirrors analysis videos were posted at YouTube in 2008. As I've already said, the PBS video is obviously doctored. The author of "Smoke and Mirrors" however appends the actual CBS source video to his analysis, and claims it is different footage than what he spent the majority of his time analyzing, although in reality it's the ORIGINAL UNALTERED footage. He implies that the video he is analyzing is unaltered original footage from 9/11, and makes no attempt to present it as a later work. So to me, that is being dishonest at best. You're misrepresenting what that video shows. It does NOT show a "plane appearing out of nowhere", it is a freeze framed image that begins with the plane halfway from the right edge of the frame to the right edge of the Empire State Building. I have NOT seen any original version of that video where the plane actually appears out of "nowhere". The ONLY footage I've seen that shows anything like that is the DOCTORED version as we've discussed here endlessly. Haven't seen any such example from you, FL, but this was your uncivil response to dodge what I'd asked of you more than once: Oh yeah, I guess all the gems right here on this thread where such editing didn't take place passed right by you right? So if I called you an asshole, a pole smoker, a fuck head, etc., etc., etc., and told you to go fuck yourself and die, that'd be ok if I edited one post later on for the purpose of "civility", eh? Your tactics are already quite obvious here GL. You're the "good cop", and titorite is the "bad cop". You'll try to act as if you're being polite and profesional, whereas your little sidekick will take the opposite approach. If that's the game you want to play, it only demonstrates what the both of you are really here for. WCBS 9-11 9:50 - 10:00 -- at the 1:27 and 6:30 marks Like I said way back in the previous thread, "are you high"? Are you now trying to claim that the towers didn't really collapse and that they're still there? It was ALL just an illusion that day and nothing at all really happened? Just because you weren't physically there to fly a helicopter close enough to the WTC and inspect the outside of the tower for dings and scratches, that to you means there was no damage and that it didn't really happen? Now if WTC 1 hadn't collapsed shortly after the other tower, then perhaps there'd be footage of whatever damage existed from the collapse of WTC 2, but since there was a debris cloud enveloping the area and it wasn't the safest place to be at the time, there isn't much in the way of close up shots of WTC 1 after the first collapse. But so what? Can you actually say with a straight face that is proof of ANYTHING? Perhaps it's to get people such as yourself all worked up over it, causing you to bring it up on the net as some sort of proof of your "no planes" theory in order to cause further discord in the 9/11 Truth community, and to discredit anyone who speaks out against the official legend and presents real bonafide evidence by associating those people with "no planers". This is what I've observed from the both of you. Neither one of you will pin down exactly what it is you're claiming, although titorite has previously stated that NO planes existed which were identified as hijacked aircraft that morning, and that the entire thing was fabricated. He will not say one way or the other if he feels that the "Smoke and Mirrors" video is a fraud, but WILL get violently upset if I ask him about it. You have posted repetitive posts stating the same thing for the past several weeks now, between this thread and the previous thread concerning Israeli Mossad involvement with the attacks, fluctuating between the authenticity of the "Smoke and Mirrors" video (proven to be using fake video, although presented as if it were an analysis of original footage), your claims that the smoke plumes were travelling in different directions (proven to be untrue), and some nebulous comment about "no damage from the collapse of the WTC 2 tower". And of course, you have also used occasional ad hominem attacks against myself, acting all butt hurt over my responses to you and your pal, who has hurled more profanities and obscenities at not just me but others who disagreed with him, than anyone else I've seen post on this forum. But between trying to convince people that the smoke plumes were fake, that the planes were fake, that the collapses were fake, all the while overlooking the actual evidence which proves differently, you haven't really stated what YOU think happened. So what part of the attacks do you think were real, and those parts which were "faked" in your opinion, HOW were they "faked"? While the it seems that the Smoke and Mirrors video is compromised as evidence, and while I find the no plane hypothesis hard to digest, I continue to be disconcerted by the images in the video that show WTC swallowing FLT 175 whole like a shark snapping up a guppy. Above is a shot of the exterior steel columns being built during construction of the Twin Towers. It's hard to believe that we're seeing was what was recorded in multiple video records of the event. It's just a freakin' tragedy that we've never had a real independent national investigation of what ocurred that day, and that we have so many loose ends to tie together. The more I see, the less things make sense. It's a matter of momentum, where a lower mass object moving at a high velocity will penetrate a stationary object of larger mass. Of course the planes were ripped to shreds upon penetrating the WTC towers, but their mass kept moving forwards due to their momentum. In fact, at least one architect has described the impact as "putting a pencil into a screen door", as the actual exterior was not a solid metal or concrete wall, but rather a series of steel columns with aluminum alloy sheathing. What it comes down to is that there are a huge number of factors, ie. there was no way to control WHO would witness the event, along with the level of deception required on the part of ALL involved, including not only the television networks, but the first responders, the reporters, camera crews, etc., which the no plane theorists allege were ALL part of the conspiracy. Then there's the matter of the holes in the towers, the fireballs, and the resulting smoke plumes. There is no real way to fake entrance holes, not without EXTERIOR explosives at least, and it's quite obvious there weren't sacks of explosives hanging from the towers that morning. I know how that feels.... after over 10,000 hours of viewing the same damn footage over and over and over ... I know EXACTLY how you feel.... The plane melting into the building... that don't make sense, the spire evaporating , that does not make sense, the multiple approach angles make about as much sense as all the cell phone calls from planes that day.....should not of been possible, ,,,, was not possible. TO say nothing of the lack of plane evidence at the pentagon and shanksville. After years and years of research into this... and you can see some of that here on 4um if you search my older postings, after years of research I had to apply Sherlock Holms theory to it and accept what I was left with after I eliminated every other reason for every other inconsistency.... I applied cold logic and I was able to accept the conclusion. Some people can not accept the idea of the US attacking itself.... Some folks think everyone here is a crack pot lair bent on destroying the country with conspiracy. Lots of silly people in the world. ____________________________________________________________ . . . The US government has declared civil war on itself. Its lust for war grew so great... Liberty before death. We run , we live, We fight again, till we win. We did not start this fight. We damn sure did not willingly pay our taxes to buy the bullets and drones that shall be used to kill us. We will correct the violations of this rogue nation....our rogue nation. We will fix this because nobody else can. You will work to help me help us all to fix this failure. After you're done educating yourself, Action!!!
If you had done so, you would have quickly realized how impossible the "no planes" theory is. You still haven't explained what YOU think happened that day, nor HOW it was done. And just to reiterate what I've said, the 9/11 attacks certainly weren't perpetrated by 19 angry arabs, some of whom are still alive. It was most likely a joint US/Israeli/British covert operation, designed for maximum effect and benefiting a "chosen" few. But that doesn't mean the entire city of New York was in on it, nor all of the television networks, office workers at the towers, firemen, police, reporters and camera crews, flight controllers, airlines, airports, and everyone else who'd have to be involved in a "no planes" scenario. If you could think logically you'd understand that. There is nothing doctored about the plane approach in the Smoke and Mirrors videos. The plane appears as if out of nowhere in all original CBS footage of that Empire State Building angle that I have seen. You were asked to post a video that showed otherwise if you could find one and you haven't. Edit to add: A circled freeze frame isn't evidence that the plane image didn't appear there out of nowhere. More like evidence that they want you to presume it didn't just appear there out of nowhere. ------- "They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
Maybe it's time to move on from a topic that's kind of burned out to the question of the "hijackers" who were made TV icons of evils in the wake of the attacks and whose images have completely disappeared from the MSM. Maybe we need a new thread or two here. He will not say one way or the other if he feels that the "Smoke and Mirrors" video is a fraud, but WILL get violently upset if I ask him about it. You have posted repetitive posts stating the same thing for the past several weeks now, between this thread and the previous thread concerning Israeli Mossad involvement with the attacks, fluctuating between the authenticity of the "Smoke and Mirrors" video (proven to be using fake video, although presented as if it were an analysis of original footage), your claims that the smoke plumes were travelling in different directions (proven to be untrue), and some nebulous comment about "no damage from the collapse of the WTC 2 tower". And of course, you have also used occasional ad hominem attacks against myself, acting all butt hurt over my responses to you and your pal, who has hurled more profanities and obscenities at not just me but others who disagreed with him, than anyone else I've seen post on this forum. You're going to have to post some example of an ad hominem attack against you by me because the only comment which comes close to such that I can recall is when I compared the way you were acting to a gila monster -- the legend being that, when they bite, they won't let go until sundown or until it thunders. I apologize if that offended you but do find it funny, if so, after all of your ad hominem inundations. I don't know what you mean by "fluctuating between the authenticity of the Smoke and Mirrors video." I've always said that it was a Media Fakery for Iraq War propaganda purposes. The footage analyzed was anomalous. In my opinion, afaik, the poster/analyzer naively underestimated the duplicity of the documentary producers. The commission of fraud was on their part, not the poster/analyzer's. I told you how to contact Elpiper with your charges of dishonesty. My comment about insignificant damage to WTC 1 from projectiles flying from the fall of WTC 2 was not nebulous and I posted video so you could see for yourself that the Tower was not severely impacted by debris as other WTC buildings farther away were said to have been from such. You dismissed it. The smoke plume does lean to the left and also to the right in various footage, not just the examples debated, and there are different plane trajectories too. No amount of evidence is ever going to be admissable to you as viable, apparently, if it goes against your remote control belief system or whatever other narratives you're promoting -- kind of like all the courts that don't care about Article II, Section I Constitutionality regarding eligibility for Presidential office or not, just popular opinion. So what part of the attacks do you think were real, and those parts which were "faked" in your opinion, HOW were they "faked"? I'm a No Planes researcher and don't think that there were any real plane strikes at the WTC, at the Pentagon or in Pennsylvania. I've already told you that I don't claim to have all the answers about how the 9/11 illusion was faked. As I've also said before, there is evidence of film fakery and false witnesses and there is evidence that alleged Flights 11 and 77 didn't even fly that day, none of which makes any difference to you, I'm sure. Seems to me that nothing much is being accomplished in our debates except constant chaos, confusion, and misconstruances so I'm going to post some evidence in this thread on the witnesses, as I said I would, then we might as well just agree to disagree about 9/11 and be done with this mess. Edited for spelling and paragraph 2 for clarity. ------- "They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
That's an outright lie. The source footage of the Smoke and Mirrors video IS doctored CBS footage. Did you forget about the splice, and the backwards smoke? As far as the original CBS footage, the plane does NOT appear from nowhere, the video does not begin till the plane is halfway between the right edge of the screen and the right side of the Empire State Building. If you have evidence to the contrary post it, but I've been waiting several weeks so far for you to do so and you still haven't been able to find anything. So as I said, your statement is a blatent lie, since there doesn't exist ANY such original undoctored video, and you should know that since NONE of the original CBS video thus posted on 4um displays what you claim. The "film fakery" is that of the "no planers" and their COINTELPRO handlers, along with video altered for PBS documentaries. You have NOT been able to supply even ONE piece of ORIGINAL footage which suggest it was fabricated. You also have not supplied even ONE example of a "false witness". Were all the camera crews in on it GL? All the police and firemen? All the office workers, commuters, and NYC residents who saw it happen live with their own eyes? Did they all call each other the day before to work out the details? So now the airports and airlines were in on it too, eh? Do you truly think millions of people, from low level workers, up through middle and senior management, would all have decided to take part in attacks against the United States? Which seems to be your ultimate goal. Disrupt and bring chaos to 9/11 threads which touch upon a bit too much truth, such as those which provide details on Israeli Mossad involvement. Are you an Israeli citizen GL? Are you an Israeli citizen GL? This is my 9/11 thread and it is you who are being chaotic and disruptive, apparently to obscure the Media Fakery issues that have been established despite your bombast, twistings, and inattentiveness. I was even going to thank you for all that I've learned about this topic because of your interest in it until I saw your latest batch of barbs. I'm not an Israeli citizen. Are you, FL? Have to wonder since you didn't want to discuss any of the details I've provided about Israeli/Mossad involvement -- just fitdance about No Planers. ------- "They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
You: That's an outright lie. The source footage of the Smoke and Mirrors video IS doctored CBS footage. Did you forget about the splice, and the backwards smoke? No, it's not a lie and no, I didn't forget about the splice and the backwards smoke but maybe you've forgotten that the source of that footage-doctoring isn't the Smoke and Mirrors poster, Elpiper. It is a PBS Media-alteration (circa 2003) of CBS 9/11 film, several years before the 2008 Smoke and Mirrors analysis videos were posted at YouTube. The splice-altered PBS footage is shown in those YouTube videos exactly as it appears in the NIST example and the Center of the World documentary example, as well as what you've posted of it. I'll rephrase the statement you quoted to be clearer, since you misunderstood what I meant: The Smoke and Mirrors poster did nothing to doctor the plane approach in those videos. It is the same approach as can be seen in the earlier PBS and NIST films. Also, the appearances of the plane image as if out of nowhere are directly from the Detroit PBS doc's CBS 9/11 footage-rendering (that was referenced to have been copied from the terrorize.dk archive for the analysis) which CBS originally showed as first appearing only from behind the Empire State Building and later from an inward point in the sky. Yes, it does. You want to "fill in the blank" by reading more into it than it shows but that doesn't change the fact that it appears there as if out of nowhere. It's not even a debateable issue, really. I think you have it backwards. I asked you to post evidence contrary to the Empire State Building plane imagery appearing there as if out of nowhere, if you could find any, and you still haven't done so. You should source your claim about waiting several weeks for something about that from me. The second video I posted at #10 on Oct. 1st shows the plane appearing from behind the Empire State Building at 2:38 and 3:33. I'm going to repost it here so that you and others can see those impact-trajectory clips and compare them to the trajectory that Bryant Gumble describes at 8:26 as "a different angle of the same plane." Wrong. You want to believe that the plane image doesn't appear out of nowhere in the original CBS video before it was doctored by PBS but there is no original CBS footage that I can find of that Empire State Building angle which does not show the plane as if appearing out of nowhere. Here is a 1.5 hr video of CBS coverage that day. If you can show otherwise, tell me where: CBS News Live 9-11 - YouTube - 1.5 hrs; go to the 20:38 mark for an example of the plane image's longer approach as if out of nowhere Edited for paragraph 1 parenthesis + last sentences of paragraph 2 and paragraph 5 + 2nd sentence of paragraph 5 + corrections for last video posting. ------- "They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
If all you want to do is mudsling and make noise, that doesn't sound to me like you even have a real clue about No Planes investigations or 9/11. Your double standards in comparisons between the WTC and the Pentagon indicate to me that you do have a COINTELPRO- like agenda to cover the tracks of the WTC perps and are maybe also motivated to instigate a "civil war" over 9/11 to replace our Constitutional Republic in the aftermath, like some others I've seen in 9/11 circles and elsewhere. They're ok too with focusing on the Israel-Mossad angle as long as it's on their controlled tension-line terms only while whipping Americans up to be smashed by the NWO's forces. Would you like to discuss Israel's Hasbarah announcement soon before 9/11 to improve its image as compared to Arabs after the U.N. moved to define Zionism as Racism? Probably not. I've already told you quite sometime ago about the WTC false witness, Tania Head, that even the MSM aknowledges was false. You might get paid to do this for a living but I don't. My time for this is limited and sporadic. If you'd quit making a meandering racket over things you shouldn't, I'd have more time to post further info on the witnesses, as I plan to do here when I can get to it. However, I've already posted some additional info on that subject at least once before: Ref. Post #43 [on a number of alleged WTC witnesses] at 4um Title: Let US start a thread on WHO Did 911 Edited for italics, apostrophe correction, bracketed insert at Post #43 and to add: See also Post #44 and Post #45 on the topics of Jerome Hauer's official-line mythologizings, etc. and some of the claimed Pentagon witnesses. More on the alleged witnesses in another post when I can relocate the info and put it here. ------- "They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
A) This is an extension of the "discussion" of the Israeli Mossad involvement thread, where instead of discussing who exactly was involved, and what evidence there was to that effect, you and your sidekick decided to plaster the thread with "no planer" nonsense. B) This thread was meant to stir controversy, as the title of the thread indicates. It was SUPPOSED to be a discussion of the "Smoke and Mirrors" video. C) My first comment on this thread was a simple question, which was, "do the both of you admit that the Smoke and Mirrors video is a fraud?", directed to the both of you, ie. yourself and titorite. Your sidekick decided to launch a barrage of obscenities and accusations. But the source vidoe which the Smoke and Mirrors author uses IS doctored CBS video. He pretends that it's ORIGINAL 9/11 footage, then ADDS a segment of the ORIGINAL footage at the end, claiming it's NOT the source of the doctored footage. So if he's that stupid and doesn't know that he spent a good deal of time analying was derived from the latter video, then why do you people even use that video to make a point, where it's obviously derived from fraudulent footage? But you made TWO statements in the first paragraph of your post which I called a lie. First was that you claimed the approach in the Smoke and Mirrors video wasn't doctored. Next was this sentence, "The plane appears as if out of nowhere in all original CBS footage of that Empire State Building angle that I have seen. ". Other than the DOCTORED video, there is not ONE clip of the ORIGINAL CBS footage which displays that behavior. The CBS video doesn't start till halfway between the right side of the screen and the right side of the Empire State Building. It does NOT begin BEFORE then, where the plane suddenly appears out of thin air, as you have been attempting to trick people into thinking. Neither of those clips you posted show a plane "appearing out of nowhere". YOU are the one making the claim that it does, it is not my job in life to find evidence that it does, it is up to you to find it if you want to prove that you aren't talking out your ass. If you can point out any part in either clip where the plane actually appears out of nowhere, please do so. Either your memory is faulty, you're going completely berserk, or you're a bald faced liar. Which is it FL?; because I posted statistics showing that I am the poster in that thread who mentioned Israel and the Mossad most often. [Ref.: Post #392 of 4um Title: How 9-11 Was Done] This thread was because of the controversy that you stirred up over the Smoke and Mirrors videos. In your post that I replied to, which you are commenting on here, you mentioned other 9/11 threads, Israel and the Mossad, and asked me if I was an Israeli citizen. Seems you think it's SUPPOSED to be about the Smoke and Mirrors videos when you want it to be about that and not when you don't. He's not my sidekick and you set the tone of obscenities with him in your first response on his polite linking for you to a Smoke and Mirrors video, simply as a noticed smoke-direction anomaly example. He might use more such language and accusations in a post but he makes a lot less posts than you do, so I think you are still way ahead in the barrage launch count. He didn't know the details of the video but I already told you multiple times before this thread what I thought of the issue -- that it was a Media-fakery as Iraq War propaganda. Do you now admit that it is a proven Media fraud and not proven as malintent by the analyzer/poster, Elpiper? Edited for spelling and last sentence + bracketed Reference insert for Post #392 linked at paragraph 1. ------- "They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
What it comes down to GL, is that for YOUR legend to be true, pretty much ALL of the world's TV networks, along with any of their reporters and camera crews on the scene, would had to have rehearsed their staged attack on the WTC before hand, AND pulled it off perfectly in real time with no glitches. The conspriracy would have had to include any first responders since they too could have and would have noticed the fact that "no plane" hit the 2nd tower. Add to that list the office workers, bystanders, survivors, and general population of NYC who might have been observing from a distance, who most certainly could have and would have seen discrepencies between what was being aired on live TV, and what they were seeing with their own eyes. And oh yes, you've claimed that the FAA, airlines, and airports were all in on it too, since you're ALSO claiming that those planes never took off that morning. Not just that, but the actual victims, the passengers and flight crew, well THEY were in on it too weren't they, since if they never flew, they must be HIDING OUT somewhere and part of this massive conspiracy. Care to explain how or why these millions of people, including random inhabitants or visitors of NYC, could all be convinced to stage a fake attack against the WTC leading up to its demolition? So you roll up some person who you claim is a "fake witness". Realistically I haven't even bothered Googling the name you provide. So say the perps can get ONE person to act as you claim, or even TEN, or even FIFTY, where they give some sort of testimony which somehow comes across as incorrect. SO WHAT? Does that negate the impossibility of MILLIONS of people being part of this plan you claim was set in motion to FAKE aircraft impacting the towers? What it comes down to is that there is not ONE shred of scientific evidence corraborating what you claim, and the rules of logic indicate that it is so absurdly impossible, it shouldn't even be considered a valid theory since it has absolutely no basis in probability, fact, evidence, or logic. So yes, the no planes theory can only accomplish two things. A) Detract from ACTUAL VALID scientific and factual evidence indicating the government version of events is impossible. B) Detract from the fact ISRAELIS WERE ARRESTED on the day of 9/11 with TONS of EXPLOSIVES on the George Washington Bridge. C) Divide the 9/11 Truth movement between those who are hellbent on advancing the "no planes" theory, regardless of their lack of evidence, and those who are presenting hard scientific evidence of what truly happened that day. D) Discredit those who are providing factual scientific and historical evidence, since they'll be lumped together by the general public with those advancing absurd irrational theories. Statistics, eh? You cherry picked a few things to make yourself look snow white. Here, I'll post a link to the How 9/11 Was Done thread. If anyone still hasn't seen that thread, it's there for all to examine. It becomes apparent who is posting what. Uh huh. Ignore his barrages of profanities, and blame me for one snarky response which you claim I posted. You sure ACT like you're protecting him and approving of his behavior. As I said, for anyone interested it's all there to see, no matter what false claims to the contrary you might make. And as far as your "Smoke and Mirrors" author, are you trying to claim he IS NOT trying to present the "Smoke and Mirrors" video as if it were bonafide footage from the morning of 9/11?
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"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#37. To: FormerLurker, titorite (#27)
You have a way of using a lot of words to say very little.
#38. To: FormerLurker (#36)
If you WON'T answer the simple yes or no question, then I have to assume that you ARE a shill here on the forum, specifically to target and attack those who are a bit too close in terms of what REALLY happened on the morning of 9/11/2001.
#39. To: titorite, christine, Lod (#38)
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#40. To: GreyLmist (#37)
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#41. To: GreyLmist (#37)
Who's head over heals about the Smoke and Mirrors topic?
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#42. To: FormerLurker (#39)
#43. To: titorite (#42)
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#44. To: FormerLurker (#43)
#45. To: titorite (#44)
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#46. To: randge (#23)
ops.
"Satan / Cheney in "08" 
#47. To: FormerLurker, titorite, *9-11* (#43)
(Edited)
All you've done here is spew accusations and profanities, while at the same time putting on a tap dance routine, ducking and dodging the very simple question I asked of you.
Edited for civility.
Me: I've spent a lot of time addressing your concerns and would like to hear your explanation for why there was little to no smoke damage at the WTC [Towers and Bldg. 7 too] as well as how WTC 1 was insignificantly impacted by flying projectiles when WTC 2 was demolished.
FL: Are you high? "Little to no smoke damage"? Are you trying to say there were no fires at all, and THAT was faked too?
#48. To: GreyLmist, all (#47)
(Edited)
Originally this was going to be a private reply to GreyLmist about his words said in post 47. After writing it out I thought it better to say it publicly.
#49. To: randge, All, *9-11*, *No Planers* (#23)
Oops.
#50. To: GreyLmist (#47)
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#51. To: GreyLmist (#47)
(Edited)
As I've already told you, it is the original MSM CBS-footage itself that shows the plane image appearing out of nowhere from the Empire State Building angle and you've also posted video showing the same thing yourself.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#52. To: GreyLmist (#47)
Edited for civility.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#53. To: GreyLmist (#47)
I posted an example in that very thread at #137 as to what I mean by WTC 1 being insignificantly impacted by flying projectiles when WTC 2 was demolished. Here it is again, FL, in case you missed it and would care to explain the phenomenon this time:
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#54. To: GreyLmist, randge (#49)
Can't imagine why they would have used that fake insert for a supposed "dramatization", what with all of the dramatic MSM imagery of alleged United Airlines and American Airlines plane strikes at the WTC that day.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#55. To: GreyLmist, titorite (#47)
(Edited)
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#56. To: FormerLurker, GreyLmist (#54)
#57. To: randge (#56)
(Edited)
I continue to be disconcerted by the images in the video that show WTC swallowing FLT 175 whole like a shark snapping up a guppy.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#58. To: randge (#56)
The more I see, the less things make sense.
#59. To: titorite, randge (#58)
(Edited)
I applied cold logic and I was able to accept the conclusion.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#60. To: FormerLurker (#51)
(Edited)
You're misrepresenting what that video shows. It does NOT show a "plane appearing out of nowhere", it is a freeze framed image that begins with the plane halfway from the right edge of the frame to the right edge of the Empire State Building. I have NOT seen any original version of that video where the plane actually appears out of "nowhere". The ONLY footage I've seen that shows anything like that is the DOCTORED version as we've discussed here endlessly.
#61. To: FormerLurker (#59)
And just to reiterate what I've said, the 9/11 attacks certainly weren't perpetrated by 19 angry arabs, some of whom are still alive.
#62. To: FormerLurker (#55)
(Edited)
This is what I've observed from the both of you. Neither one of you will pin down exactly what it is you're claiming, although titorite has previously stated that NO planes existed which were identified as hijacked aircraft that morning, and that the entire thing was fabricated.
But between trying to convince people that the smoke plumes were fake, that the planes were fake, that the collapses were fake, all the while overlooking the actual evidence which proves differently, you haven't really stated what YOU think happened.
#63. To: GreyLmist (#60)
There is nothing doctored about the plane approach in the Smoke and Mirrors videos. The plane appears as if out of nowhere in all original CBS footage of that Empire State Building angle that I have seen.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#64. To: GreyLmist (#62)
(Edited)
As I've also said before, there is evidence of film fakery and false witnesses
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#65. To: GreyLmist (#62)
As I've also said before, there is evidence of film fakery and false witnesses and there is evidence that alleged Flights 11 and 77 didn't even fly that day
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#66. To: GreyLmist (#62)
nothing much is being accomplished in our debates except constant chaos, confusion
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#67. To: FormerLurker (#66)
Which seems to be your ultimate goal. Disrupt and bring chaos to 9/11 threads which touch upon a bit too much truth, such as those which provide details on Israeli Mossad involvement.
#68. To: FormerLurker (#63)
(Edited)
Me: There is nothing doctored about the plane approach in the Smoke and Mirrors videos. The plane appears as if out of nowhere in all original CBS footage of that Empire State Building angle that I have seen.
As far as the original CBS footage, the plane does NOT appear from nowhere,
the video does not begin till the plane is halfway between the right edge of the screen and the right side of the Empire State Building.
If you have evidence to the contrary post it, but I've been waiting several weeks so far for you to do so and you still haven't been able to find anything.
So as I said, your statement is a blatent lie, since there doesn't exist ANY such original undoctored video, and you should know that since NONE of the original CBS video thus posted on 4um displays what you claim.
#69. To: FormerLurker (#64)
(Edited)
The "film fakery" is that of the "no planers" and their COINTELPRO handlers, along with video altered for PBS documentaries. You have NOT been able to supply even ONE piece of ORIGINAL footage which suggest it was fabricated. You also have not supplied even ONE example of a "false witness".
#70. To: GreyLmist (#67)
This is my 9/11 thread and it is you who are being chaotic and disruptive
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#71. To: GreyLmist (#68)
I didn't forget about the splice and the backwards smoke but maybe you've forgotten that the source of that footage-doctoring isn't the Smoke and Mirrors poster, Elpiper. It is a PBS Media-alteration (circa 2003) of CBS 9/11 film, several years before the 2008 Smoke and Mirrors analysis videos were posted at YouTube.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#72. To: GreyLmist (#68)
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#73. To: FormerLurker (#70)
(Edited)
A) This is an extension of the "discussion" of the Israeli Mossad involvement thread, where instead of discussing who exactly was involved, and what evidence there was to that effect, you and your sidekick decided to plaster the thread with "no planer" nonsense.
B) This thread was meant to stir controversy, as the title of the thread indicates. It was SUPPOSED to be a discussion of the "Smoke and Mirrors" video.
C) My first comment on this thread was a simple question, which was, "do the both of you admit that the Smoke and Mirrors video is a fraud?", directed to the both of you, ie. yourself and titorite. Your sidekick decided to launch a barrage of obscenities and accusations.
#74. To: GreyLmist (#69)
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#75. To: GreyLmist (#73)
Either your memory is faulty, you're going completely berserk, or you're a bald faced liar. Which is it FL?; because I posted statistics showing that I am the poster in that thread who mentioned Israel and the Mossad most often.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#76. To: GreyLmist (#73)
He's not my sidekick and you set the tone of obscenities with him in your first response on his polite linking for you to a Smoke and Mirrors video
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
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