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9/11
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Title: Smoke and Mirrors videos-controversy topic
Source: various
URL Source: http://freedom4um.com/cgi-bin/reada ... gi?ArtNum=149329&Disp=671#C671
Published: Sep 29, 2012
Author: Me and various
Post Date: 2012-09-29 01:19:12 by GreyLmist
Keywords: 9/11, NIST, PBS, CBS
Views: 2020
Comments: 94

Relevant info on this topic is accessible through posts #586 and #671 linked below:

4um Title: How 9-11 Was Done

Post #586 -- videos, links, and details

Post #671 -- WETA/PBS addendum info

Poster Comment:

Tangential discussion starting point [#103] at 4um Title: Pilots Analyze the Government Provided Radar Data of the Planes of 9-11, if needed for referencing here.

Post Comment   Private Reply   Ignore Thread  

Begin Trace Mode for Comment # 71.

#9. To: All, *9-11*, *No Planers* (#0) (Edited)

This is an addendum for references on an additional documentary circa 2003 (Ref. web.archive.org: 911conspiracy.tv - 2nd WTC Attack Videos - CBS3: "The Center of the World - New York: A Documentary Film" | PBS, Lisa Ades, Ric Burns, and David Ogden Stiers, narrator) that is said to be the origin of the now unavailable Detroit Public TV documentary footage (referenced at the start of the Smoke and Mirrors long- version video with the Detroit Public TV logo and also in the 8-sec. US Department of Commerce/NIST video with the WETA logo for Washington D.C. PBS; Ref. Posts #586 and #671).

In comparison to the Smoke and Mirrors (long version) PBS footage: All of the original CBS news footage that I've viewed up to this point of the Empire State Building angle likewise shows the plane image as if it appears out of nowhere to the right of the Empire State Building or from behind it, depending on which broadcast segments are being reported/discussed. Also, in all of the available PBS video-clip examples that I've noted above, the screen jumps as if spliced like the Smoke and Mirrors segment does. Neither of these issues (the appearance of the plane image as if out of nowhere and the screen jump as if spliced) should be attributed to tampering by whomever authored the Smoke and Mirrors analysis videos at the terrorize.dk site or to Elpiper who posted them at YouTube in May and June of 2008 because they are evidenced in MSM CBS and PBS film of 9/11. The color darkening seen more in the Smoke and Mirrors short-version is similar to an MSM Chopper view that I'll try to relocate and post as an example. The copied smoke alteration is debateable as to how and from what source that happened and there could be some interpretive problems with the wording of the comments in the video analyses. It is still my impression as of now, though, from what I can recall of much earlier discussions about this video topic, that the coloration and smoke copying was for dramatic effect by the Media to promote the Iraq war.

At watchdocumentary.com: The biggest source of free documentaries to watch online

Segment 4 at 1:17

New York: A Documentary Film - Episode 08: The Center of the World (1946–2003)

YouTube Playlist by me of the documentary: PBS, New York - 8 Center Of The World -- 7 videos, duration 1:30:50, go to 1:17 of video #4 for comparisons with the other footage in question.

Description excerpts:

New York: A Documentary Film is an eight-part, 17½ hour, American documentary film on the history of New York City. It was directed by Ric Burns and originally aired in the U.S. on PBS. The film was a co-production of Thirteen New York and WGBH Boston.

The documentary is divided into eight parts: * Episode One: The Country and the City (1609--1825) * Episode Two: Order and Disorder (1825--1865) * Episode Three: Sunshine and Shadow (1865--1898) * Episode Four: The Power and the People (1898--1918) * Episode Five: Cosmopolis (1919--1931) * Episode Six: City of Tomorrow (1929--1941) * Episode Seven: The City and the World (1945--2000) * Episode Eight: The Center of the World (1946--2003)

Additional References:

Film Credits . New York The Center of the World . WGBH American Experience - PBS

freerepublic.com: PBS TV -- The Center of the World (a WTC history)

Edit to insert a PBS notation in paragraph 2.

GreyLmist  posted on  2012-10-01   5:48:59 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

One more thing GL. Being that apparently the "Smoke and Mirrors" video is the "best" evidence you can drag off the net in terms of supporting your theory, it should be clear that your theory doesn't hold water.

It's obvious to me that this video is quite important to you, since if it wasn't you'd move on to better things to research and investigate. Being that at least I know that this video is a complete fraud, you're never going to convince me of what you're peddling, although I'm sure you'll be tap dancing all over the forum trying to convince others that it's bonafide evidence.

Yep, it's bonafide evidence alright. Evidence that someone released a doctored video to PBS stations for broadcast, and then others either out of malice or ignorance decided that it's "evidence" of the "no planes" theory.

Since the author of the "Smoke and Mirrors" video claims expertise, and he even includes the source CBS footage in his extended video, it's apparent that he's not doing it out of ignorance.

FormerLurker  posted on  2012-10-01   11:08:20 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

It's obvious to me that this video is quite important to you, since if it wasn't you'd move on to better things to research and investigate.

I would like to move on now to better things to research and investigate. This is a link set for 10:24 of video #3 in the Playlist linked above for the PBS documentary: PBS, New York - 8 Center Of The World (3/7). Set the video below to that mark too. Any comment on the very oddly shaped plane image shown in that PBS doc clip at 10:24?

Edited sentence 1.

GreyLmist  posted on  2012-10-04   14:42:17 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

It's obvious to me that this video is quite important to you, since if it wasn't you'd move on to better things to research and investigate.

I would like to move on now to better things to research and investigate. This is a link set for 10:24 of video #3 in the Playlist linked above for the PBS documentary: PBS, New York - 8 Center Of The World (3/7). Set the video below to that mark too. Any comment on the very oddly shaped plane image shown in that PBS doc clip at 10:24?

Edited sentence 1.

THAT WAS FREAKING EPIC!!!

The devil of the details... It took me a moment but I saw what you pointed out...

People you all see it right? In his PBS doc vid he linked... The plane engines.... Where should they be? On the wings or on the tail?

Look again at the video.

And ask yourself why they are using images of fake planes? and How much of the footage was fake planes.

titorite  posted on  2012-10-04   21:31:51 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

THAT WAS FREAKING EPIC!!!

..... tap dancing ......

People you all see it right? In his PBS doc vid he linked... The plane engines.... Where should they be? On the wings or on the tail?

As far as that PBS video, just as I thought. You're going to use that as "no planes" evidence. For one, not only is that NOT a clip from 9/11, it is either a dramatized image or a doctored one, PBS has ALREADY aired doctored footage from SOMEONE, who exactly isn't quite clear yet.

I find it an odd coincidence that you're bringing this stuff up on the net right about the same time PBS is airing the Architects for 9/11 Truth video. A guilt by association sort of thing, isn't it tit.

FormerLurker  posted on  2012-10-04   21:39:55 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

I find it revealing that your logic does not apply to yourself.

I mean you are being shown the inconsistent images... The images from the mainstream images you can get from their websites in their caches with the same flaws of the conspirators still left in ....

And yet you refuse to accept the truth in front of your eyes.

STOP LETTING ANTIQUE PROPAGANDA CONTROL YOUR THOUGHTS!

WTF is PBS in on the no plane theory too?!?! They made that vid just to get to you? is that it? Is that what you think?! That everything in the world revolves around you and your internet pronouncements of what is fact and what is not? Get real man.

titorite  posted on  2012-10-04   22:11:36 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

If you WON'T answer the simple yes or no question, then I have to assume that you ARE a shill here on the forum, specifically to target and attack those who are a bit too close in terms of what REALLY happened on the morning of 9/11/2001.

Let me ask you this ONE more time.

Do you think the "Smoke and Mirrors" video is actual proof of the "no planes" theory?

FormerLurker  posted on  2012-10-05   2:49:31 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

If you WON'T answer the simple yes or no question, then I have to assume that you ARE a shill here on the forum, specifically to target and attack those who are a bit too close in terms of what REALLY happened on the morning of 9/11/2001.

Let me ask you this ONE more time.

Do you think the "Smoke and Mirrors" video is actual proof of the "no planes" theory?

No , you are just acting like a dick head.

Your questions have been answered , fuck you for dragging my friends into this you piece of shit. They have no reference here. They have not been following the conversation of your trolling fucking antics.

I hope you get a virus today you fuck stain.

I mean bother me all you want but leave others that have nothing to do with this OUT OF THIS .... fucking jack boot thug

titorite  posted on  2012-10-05   7:19:47 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

So I guess it's official, you ARE a shill. It's quite apparent that you have no intent of having a civil discussion concerning this, you're only here to harrass and disrupt the forum with your antics.

FormerLurker  posted on  2012-10-05   10:40:15 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

Shill? Fuck your shill bullshit

Former Lurker you have entered full on scum bag territory when you attempted to drag my friends into this fuck you lying scum bag piece of shit.

What on gods green earth makes you think you are any better then any other scum bag? You attempt to drag innocent people into a conflict they have nothing to do with.

You attempt to use them as an intellectual weapon against me.

Trully you do no service to any truth movement.....

You're worthless lying punk ass is in no better place than pasted to that chair you filth.

titorite  posted on  2012-10-05   16:09:38 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

All you've done here is spew accusations and profanities, while at the same time putting on a tap dance routine, ducking and dodging the very simple question I asked of you.

Again, just one last try here.

Do you feel that the Smoke and Mirrors video is a fraud, or do you think it's real footage which proves the "no plane" theory?

FormerLurker  posted on  2012-10-05   16:28:32 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

All you've done here is spew accusations and profanities, while at the same time putting on a tap dance routine, ducking and dodging the very simple question I asked of you.

Again, just one last try here.

Do you feel that the Smoke and Mirrors video is a fraud, or do you think it's real footage which proves the "no plane" theory?

9-11 jump-ping to video issue highlighted below.

I'm guessing, FL, that you think you're on some sort of entrapment enforcement mission with your false dichotomy/false dilemma/either-or fallacy hammerings when those aren't even the real choices, much less the only options realistically. You should already know by now that "Neither" would be the actual answer in truth to your Inquisitions about it. Once again, they are a Media Fakery issue with focus on the smoke and explosion anomalies in a Detroit PBS program depicting 9/11, not a No Planes Theory "powerpoint" demo. Being mistaken about when the footage was originally broadcast does not equate to fraud.

As I've already told you, it is the original MSM CBS-footage itself that shows the plane image appearing out of nowhere from the Empire State Building angle and you've also posted video showing the same thing yourself. If you can find original CBS footage from that Empire State Building angle which doesn't show the plane as if appearing out of nowhere, post it here for us but I couldn't find any. It is the PBS film that shows a splice jump and an example of that can be seen in the 2003 PBS "Center of the World" documentary that I posted above, which was aired several years before the Smoke and Mirrors analysis videos were posted at YouTube in 2008.

As for your 1st paragraph of spurious aspersions, this was your response to titorite after he posted a Smoke and Mirrors link for you to consider in the anomalous smoke discussion. Ref. 4um Title: How 9/11 Was Done; titorite at Post #350. FL at Post #355: "I dare say if you looked beyond your ass, you'd see that you've been wrong in EVERYTHING you've said,"

This is an example of titorite editing a post to you in an effort of civility:

Ref. Post #123 of 4um Title: Pilots Analyze the Government Provided Radar Data of the Planes of 9-11

Edited for civility.

Haven't seen any such example from you, FL, but this was your uncivil response to dodge what I'd asked of you more than once:

Post #111 of 4um Title: Pilots Analyze the Government Provided Radar Data of the Planes of 9-11

Me: I've spent a lot of time addressing your concerns and would like to hear your explanation for why there was little to no smoke damage at the WTC [Towers and Bldg. 7 too] as well as how WTC 1 was insignificantly impacted by flying projectiles when WTC 2 was demolished.

FL: Are you high? "Little to no smoke damage"? Are you trying to say there were no fires at all, and THAT was faked too?

Do you truly believe what you write?

As far as WTC 1, WTF are you talking about in terms of "insignificantly impacted by flying projectiles"?

I posted an example in that very thread at #137 as to what I mean by WTC 1 being insignificantly impacted by flying projectiles when WTC 2 was demolished. Here it is again, FL, in case you missed it and would care to explain the phenomenon this time:

WCBS 9-11 9:50 - 10:00 -- at the 1:27 and 6:30 marks

Edited sentence 1 for readability formatting.

GreyLmist  posted on  2012-10-05   23:47:45 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

As I've already told you, it is the original MSM CBS-footage itself that shows the plane image appearing out of nowhere from the Empire State Building angle and you've also posted video showing the same thing yourself.

You're misrepresenting what that video shows. It does NOT show a "plane appearing out of nowhere", it is a freeze framed image that begins with the plane halfway from the right edge of the frame to the right edge of the Empire State Building. I have NOT seen any original version of that video where the plane actually appears out of "nowhere". The ONLY footage I've seen that shows anything like that is the DOCTORED version as we've discussed here endlessly.

FormerLurker  posted on  2012-10-06   9:30:27 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

You're misrepresenting what that video shows. It does NOT show a "plane appearing out of nowhere", it is a freeze framed image that begins with the plane halfway from the right edge of the frame to the right edge of the Empire State Building. I have NOT seen any original version of that video where the plane actually appears out of "nowhere". The ONLY footage I've seen that shows anything like that is the DOCTORED version as we've discussed here endlessly.

There is nothing doctored about the plane approach in the Smoke and Mirrors videos. The plane appears as if out of nowhere in all original CBS footage of that Empire State Building angle that I have seen. You were asked to post a video that showed otherwise if you could find one and you haven't. Edit to add: A circled freeze frame isn't evidence that the plane image didn't appear there out of nowhere. More like evidence that they want you to presume it didn't just appear there out of nowhere.

GreyLmist  posted on  2012-10-07   6:26:24 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

There is nothing doctored about the plane approach in the Smoke and Mirrors videos. The plane appears as if out of nowhere in all original CBS footage of that Empire State Building angle that I have seen.

That's an outright lie. The source footage of the Smoke and Mirrors video IS doctored CBS footage. Did you forget about the splice, and the backwards smoke?

As far as the original CBS footage, the plane does NOT appear from nowhere, the video does not begin till the plane is halfway between the right edge of the screen and the right side of the Empire State Building.

If you have evidence to the contrary post it, but I've been waiting several weeks so far for you to do so and you still haven't been able to find anything.

So as I said, your statement is a blatent lie, since there doesn't exist ANY such original undoctored video, and you should know that since NONE of the original CBS video thus posted on 4um displays what you claim.

FormerLurker  posted on  2012-10-07   15:08:56 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

Me: There is nothing doctored about the plane approach in the Smoke and Mirrors videos. The plane appears as if out of nowhere in all original CBS footage of that Empire State Building angle that I have seen.

You: That's an outright lie. The source footage of the Smoke and Mirrors video IS doctored CBS footage. Did you forget about the splice, and the backwards smoke?

No, it's not a lie and no, I didn't forget about the splice and the backwards smoke but maybe you've forgotten that the source of that footage-doctoring isn't the Smoke and Mirrors poster, Elpiper. It is a PBS Media-alteration (circa 2003) of CBS 9/11 film, several years before the 2008 Smoke and Mirrors analysis videos were posted at YouTube. The splice-altered PBS footage is shown in those YouTube videos exactly as it appears in the NIST example and the Center of the World documentary example, as well as what you've posted of it. I'll rephrase the statement you quoted to be clearer, since you misunderstood what I meant:

The Smoke and Mirrors poster did nothing to doctor the plane approach in those videos. It is the same approach as can be seen in the earlier PBS and NIST films. Also, the appearances of the plane image as if out of nowhere are directly from the Detroit PBS doc's CBS 9/11 footage-rendering (that was referenced to have been copied from the terrorize.dk archive for the analysis) which CBS originally showed as first appearing only from behind the Empire State Building and later from an inward point in the sky.

As far as the original CBS footage, the plane does NOT appear from nowhere,

Yes, it does.

the video does not begin till the plane is halfway between the right edge of the screen and the right side of the Empire State Building.

You want to "fill in the blank" by reading more into it than it shows but that doesn't change the fact that it appears there as if out of nowhere. It's not even a debateable issue, really.

If you have evidence to the contrary post it, but I've been waiting several weeks so far for you to do so and you still haven't been able to find anything.

I think you have it backwards. I asked you to post evidence contrary to the Empire State Building plane imagery appearing there as if out of nowhere, if you could find any, and you still haven't done so. You should source your claim about waiting several weeks for something about that from me. The second video I posted at #10 on Oct. 1st shows the plane appearing from behind the Empire State Building at 2:38 and 3:33. I'm going to repost it here so that you and others can see those impact-trajectory clips and compare them to the trajectory that Bryant Gumble describes at 8:26 as "a different angle of the same plane."

CBS 9-11 9:02 - 9:12

So as I said, your statement is a blatent lie, since there doesn't exist ANY such original undoctored video, and you should know that since NONE of the original CBS video thus posted on 4um displays what you claim.

Wrong. You want to believe that the plane image doesn't appear out of nowhere in the original CBS video before it was doctored by PBS but there is no original CBS footage that I can find of that Empire State Building angle which does not show the plane as if appearing out of nowhere. Here is a 1.5 hr video of CBS coverage that day. If you can show otherwise, tell me where:

CBS News Live 9-11 - YouTube - 1.5 hrs; go to the 20:38 mark for an example of the plane image's longer approach as if out of nowhere

Edited for paragraph 1 parenthesis + last sentences of paragraph 2 and paragraph 5 + 2nd sentence of paragraph 5 + corrections for last video posting.

GreyLmist  posted on  2012-10-08   8:18:02 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

I didn't forget about the splice and the backwards smoke but maybe you've forgotten that the source of that footage-doctoring isn't the Smoke and Mirrors poster, Elpiper. It is a PBS Media-alteration (circa 2003) of CBS 9/11 film, several years before the 2008 Smoke and Mirrors analysis videos were posted at YouTube.

But the source vidoe which the Smoke and Mirrors author uses IS doctored CBS video. He pretends that it's ORIGINAL 9/11 footage, then ADDS a segment of the ORIGINAL footage at the end, claiming it's NOT the source of the doctored footage.

So if he's that stupid and doesn't know that he spent a good deal of time analying was derived from the latter video, then why do you people even use that video to make a point, where it's obviously derived from fraudulent footage?

But you made TWO statements in the first paragraph of your post which I called a lie. First was that you claimed the approach in the Smoke and Mirrors video wasn't doctored. Next was this sentence, "The plane appears as if out of nowhere in all original CBS footage of that Empire State Building angle that I have seen. ".

Other than the DOCTORED video, there is not ONE clip of the ORIGINAL CBS footage which displays that behavior. The CBS video doesn't start till halfway between the right side of the screen and the right side of the Empire State Building. It does NOT begin BEFORE then, where the plane suddenly appears out of thin air, as you have been attempting to trick people into thinking.

FormerLurker  posted on  2012-10-08   11:23:49 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

        There are no replies to Comment # 71.

End Trace Mode for Comment # 71.

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