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Title: The looniest of all 9/11 conspiracy theories
Source:
Idaho Observer
URL Source: http://proliberty.com/observer/20030811.htm
Published: Sep 30, 2012
Author: Gerard Holmgren
Post Date: 2012-09-30 22:56:47 by James Deffenbach
Keywords: None
Views: 815
Comments: 76
From the August 2003 Idaho Observer: The looniest of all 9/11 conspiracy theories “Let us not tolerate outrageous conspiracy theories,” President Bush stated amid increasingly loud accusations that his administration may have allowed the tragic events of 9/11 to occur as a pretext justifying U.S. expansion of armed conflict around the world to allegedly wage war on terrorism. Curiously, most of the “outrageous conspiracy theories” to which he refers incorporate some extremely sound science, logic and witness testimony where the official version is lacking in those critical areas. The following is a rather clever and immensely sarcastic approach to the government's explanation of 9/11 -- which follows a pattern established by the “magic bullet theory” to explain the assassination of JFK and a Ryder truck full of fertilizer and fuel oil to explain the damage at the Murrah federal building in OK City. by Gerard Holmgren Astute observers of history are aware that for every notable event there will usually be at least one ,often several wild conspiracy theories which spring up around it. “The CIA killed Hendrix”; “the Pope had John Lennon murdered”; “Hitler was half Werewolf”; “Space aliens replaced Nixon with a clone,” etc, etc. The bigger the event, the more ridiculous and more numerous are the fanciful rantings which circulate in relation to it. So its hardly surprising that the events of Sept. 11, 2001, have spawned their fair share of these ludicrous fairy tales. And as always, there is -- sadly -- a small but gullible percentage of the population eager to lap up these tall tales, regardless of facts or rational analysis. One of the wilder stories circulating about Sept 11 (and one that has attracted something of a cult following amongst conspiracy buffs) is that it was carried out by 19 fanatical Arab hijackers, masterminded by an evil genius named Osama bin Laden, with no apparent motivation other than that they “hate our freedoms.” Never a group of people to be bothered by facts, the perpetrators of this cartoon fantasy have constructed an elaborately woven web of delusions and unsubstantiated hearsay in order to promote this garbage across the Internet and the media to the extent that a number of otherwise rational people have actually fallen under its spell. Normally I don't even bother debunking this kind of junk, but the effect that this paranoid myth is beginning to have requires a little rational analysis, in order to consign it to the same rubbish bin as all such silly conspiracy theories. These crackpots even contend that the extremist Bush regime was caught unawares by the attacks, had no hand in organizing them and actually would have stopped them if it had been able. Blindly ignoring the stand down of the U.S. Air Force, the insider trading on airline stocks (linked to the CIA), the complicit behavior of Bush on the morning of the attacks, the controlled demolition of the WTC, the firing of a missile into the Pentagon and a host of other documented proofs that the Bush regime was behind the attacks, the conspiracy theorists stick doggedly to a silly story about 19 Arab hijackers somehow managing to commandeer four planes simultaneously and fly them around U.S. airspace for nearly two hours, crashing them into important buildings, without the U.S. intelligence services having any idea that it was coming, and without the Air Force knowing what to do. The daunting task of analysis The huge difficulties with such a stupid story force them to invent even more preposterous stories to distract from its core silliness, and thus the tale has escalated into a mythic fantasy of truly gargantuan proportions. It's difficult to apply rational analysis to such unmitigated stupidity, but that is the task which I take on in this article. However, it should be noted that one of the curious characteristics of conspiracy theorists is that they effortlessly change their so called evidence in response to each aspect which is debunked. As soon as one delusion is unmasked, they simply invent another to replace it and deny that the first ever existed. Eventually, when they have turned full circle through this endlessly changing fantasy fog , they then reinvent the original delusion and deny that you ever debunked it, thus beginning the circle once more. This technique is known as “the fruit loop” and saves the conspiracy theorist from ever having to see any of their ideas through to their (ill)logical conclusions. The fruit loop According to the practitioners of the fruit loop, 19 Arabs took over the four planes by subduing the passengers and crew through the use of guns, knives, box cutters and gas, and then used electronic guidance systems which they had smuggled on board to fly the planes to their targets. The suspension of disbelief required for this outrageous concoction is only for the hard core conspiracy theorist. For a start, they conveniently skip over the awkward fact that there weren't any Arabs on the planes. If there were, one must speculate that they somehow got on board without being filmed by any of the security cameras and without being registered on the passenger lists. But the curly question of how they are supposed to have got on board is all too mundane for the exciting world of the conspiracy theorist. Who's on first? With vague mumblings that they must have been using false ID (but never specifying which IDs they are alleged to have used, or how these were traced to their real identities), they quickly bypass this problem, to relate exciting and sinister tales about how some of the fictitious fiends were actually searched before boarding because they looked suspicious. However, as inevitably happens with any web of lies, this simply paints them into an even more difficult corner. How are they supposed to have gotten on board with all that stuff if they were searched? And if they used gas in a confined space, they would have been affected themselves unless they also had masks in their luggage. “Excuse me sir, why do you have a boxcutter, a gun, a container of gas, a gas mask and an electronic guidance unit in your luggage?” “A present for your grandmother? Very well sir, on you get.” “Very strange,” thinks the security officer. “That's the fourth Arabic man without an Arabic name who just got on board with a knife, gun or boxcutter and gas mask. And why does that security camera keep flicking off every time one these characters shows up? Must be one of those days I guess...” Asking any of these basic questions to a conspiracy theorist is likely to cause a sudden leap to the claim that we know that they were on board because they left a credit card trail for the tickets they had purchased and cars they had rented. So, if they used credit cards that identified them, how does that reconcile with the claim that they used false IDs to get on to the plane? But by this time, the fruit loop is in full swing, as the conspiracy theorist tries to stay one jump ahead of this annoying and awkward rational analysis. They will allege that the hijackers' passports were found at the crash scenes. “So there!” they exalt triumphantly, their fanatical faces lighting up with that deranged look of one who has just experienced a revelation of questionable sanity. Hmm? So they got on board with false IDs but took their real passports with them? However, by this time the fruit loop has been completely circumnavigated, and the conspiracy theorist exclaims impatiently, “Who said anything about false IDs? We know what seats they were sitting in! Their presence is well documented!” And so the whole loop starts again. “Well, why aren't they on the passenger lists?” “You numbskull! They assumed the identities of other passengers!” And so on... Finally, out of sheer fascination with this circular method of creative delusion, the rational sceptic will allow them to get away with this loop, in order to move on to the next question, and see what further delights await us in the unraveling of this marvelously stupid story. “Uh, how come their passports survived fiery crashes that completely incinerated the planes and all the passengers?” The answer of course is that its just one of those strange coincidences, those little quirks of fate that do happen from time to time. You know, like the same person winning the lottery four weeks in a row. The odds are astronomical, but these things do happen... This is another favourite deductive method of the conspiracy theorist. The “improbability drive,” in which they decide upon a conclusion without any evidence whatsoever to support it, and then continually speculate a series of wildly improbable events and unbelievable coincidences to support it, shrugging off the implausibility of each event with the vague assertion that sometimes the impossible happens (just about all the time in their world). There is a principle called “Occam's razor” which suggests that in the absence of evidence to the contrary, the simplest explanation is most likely to be correct. Conspiracy theorists hate Occam's razor. Hijacking 101 Having for the sake of amusement, allowed them to get away with the silly story of the 19 invisible Arabs, we move on to the question of how they are supposed to have taken over the planes. Hijacking a plane is not an easy thing to do. Hijacking it without the pilot being able to alert ground control is nearly impossible. The pilot has only to punch in a four digit code to alert ground control to a hijacking. Unconcerned with the awkward question of plausibility, the conspiracy buffs maintain that on that Sept 11, the invisible hijackers took over the plane by the rather crude method of threatening people with boxcutters and knives, and spraying gas (after they had attached their masks, obviously), but somehow took control of the plane without the crew first getting a chance to punch in the hijacking code. Not just on one plane, but on all four. At this point in the tale, the conspiracy theorist is again forced to call upon the services of the improbability drive. So now that our incredibly lucky hijackers have taken control of the planes, all four pilots fly them with breathtaking skill and certainty to their fiery end -- all four unflinching in their steely resolve for a swift meeting with Allah. Apart from their psychotic hatred of “our freedoms,” it was their fanatical devotion to Islam which enabled them to summon up the iron will to do this. Which is strange, because according to another piece of hearsay peddled by the conspiracy buffs, these guys actually went out drinking and womanizing the night before their great martyrdom, even leaving their Korans in the bar -- really impeccable Islamic behavior -- and then got up at 5 a.m. the next morning to pull off the greatest covert operation in history. This also requires us to believe that they were even clear headed enough to learn how to fly the huge planes by reading flight manuals in Arabic in the car on the way to the airport. We know this because they supposedly left the flight manuals there for us to find. It gets better. Their practical training had allegedly been limited to Cessnas and flight simulators, but this was no barrier to the unflinching certainty with which they took over the planes and skillfully guided them to their doom. If they are supposed to have done their flight training with these tools, which would be available just about anywhere in the world, its not clear why they would have decided to risk blowing their cover to U.S. intelligence services by doing the training in Florida, rather than somewhere in the Middle East, but such reasoning is foreign to the foggy world of the conspiracy theorist, too trapped in the constant rotation of the mental fruit loop to make their unsubstantiated fabrications seem even semi-believable. A Ryder truck with wings? Having triumphantly established a circular delusion in support of the mythical Arabs, the conspiracy theorist now confronts the difficult question of why there's nothing left of the planes. Anybody who has seen the endlessly replayed footage of the second plane going into the WTC will realize that the plane was packed with explosives. Planes do not and cannot blow up into nothing in that manner when they crash. Did the mythical Arabs also haul a huge heap of explosives on board, and manage to deploy them in such a manner that they went off in the exact instant of the crash, completely vapourizing the plane? This is a little difficult even for the conspiracy theorist, who at this point decides that its easier to invent new laws of physics in order to keep the delusion rolling along. There weren't any explosives. It wasn't an inside job. The plane blew up into nothing from its exploding fuel load! Remarkable! Sluggishly combustible jet fuel, which is basically kerosene and which burns at a maximum temperature of around 800 C, has suddenly taken on the qualities of a ferociously explosive demolition agent, vapourizing 65 tons of aircraft into a puff of smoke. Never mind that a plane of that size contains around 15 tons of steel and titanium, of which even the melting points are about double that of the maximum combustion temperature of kerosene -- let alone the boiling point -- which is what would be required to vapourize a plane. And then there's about 50 tons of aluminium to be accounted for. In excess of 15 pounds of metal was vapourized for each gallon of kerosene. For the conspiracy theorist, such inconvenient facts are vaguely dismissed as “mumbo jumbo.” This convenient little phrase is their answer to just about anything factual or logical. Like a conjurer pulling a rabbit out of a hat, they suddenly become fanatically insistent about the devastating explosive qualities of kerosene, something hitherto completely unknown to science, but just discovered by them, at that very moment. Blissfully ignoring the fact that never before or since in aviation history has a plane vapourized into nothing from an exploding fuel load, the conspiracy theorist relies upon Hollywood images, where the effects are always larger than life, and certainly larger than the intellects of these cretins. “Its a well known fact that planes blow up into nothing on impact,” they state with pompous certainty. “Watch any Bruce Willis movie.” “Care to provide any documented examples? If it's a well known fact, then presumably this well known fact springs from some kind of documentation -- other than Bruce Willis movies?” At this point the mad but cunning eyes of the conspiracy theorist will narrow as they sense the corner that they have backed themselves into, and plan their escape by means of another stunning backflip. “Ah, but planes have never crashed into buildings before, so there's no way of telling,” they counter with a sly grin. Well, actually planes have crashed into buildings before (and since). None of them vapourized into almost nothing. “But not big planes, with that much fuel,” they shriek in hysterical denial. Or that much metal to vapourize. “Yes but not hijacked planes!” “Are you suggesting that whether the crash is deliberate or accidental affects the combustion qualities of the fuel?” “Now you're just being silly.” Although collisions with buildings are rare, planes frequently crash into mountains, streets, other aircraft, nosedive into the ground, or have bombs planted aboard them, and don't vapourize into nothing. What's so special about a tower that's mostly glass? But by now, the conspiracy theorist has once again sailed happily around the fruit loop. “Its a well documented fact that planes explode into nothing on impact.” Effortlessly weaving back and forth between the position that its a “well known fact” and that “its never happened before, so we have nothing to compare it to,” the conspiracy theorist has now convinced themselves (if not too many other people) that the WTC plane was not loaded with explosives, and that the instant vapourization of the plane in a massive fireball was the same as any other plane crash you might care to mention. Round and round the fruit loop... The “new math” But the hurdles which confront the conspiracy theorist are many, and they are now forced to implement even more creative uses for the newly discovered shockingly destructive qualities of kerosene. They have to explain how the Arabs also engineered the elegant vertical collapse of both the WTC towers, and for this awkward fact the easiest counter is to simply deny that it was a controlled demolition, and claim that the buildings collapsed from fire caused by the burning kerosene. For this, its necessary to sweep aside the second law of thermodynamics and propose kerosene, which is not only impossibly destructive, but also recycles itself for a second burning in violation of the law of degradation of energy. You see, it not only consumed itself in a sudden catastrophic fireball, vapourizing a 65-ton plane into nothing, but then came back for a second go, burning at 2000 degrees C for another hour at the impact point, melting the skyscraper's steel like butter. And, while it was doing all this, it also poured down the elevator shafts, starting fires all through the building. When I was at school there was a little thing called the entropy law which suggests that a given portion of fuel can only burn once, something which is readily observable in the real world, even for those who didn't make it to junior high school science. But this is no problem for the conspiracy theorist. Gleefully, they claim that a few thousand gallons of kerosene is enough to: 1. completely vapourize a 65 ton aircraft; 2. have enough left over to burn ferociously enough for over an hour at the impact point to melt steel ( melting point about double the maximum combustion temperature of the fuel ); 3. still have enough left over to pour down the elevator shafts and start similarly destructive fires all throughout the building. This kerosene really is remarkable stuff! How chilling to realize that those kerosene heaters we had in the house when I was a kid were deadly bombs, just waiting to go off. One false move and the entire street might have been vapourized. And never again will I take kerosene lamps out camping. One moment you're there innocently holding the lamp, the next moment -- kapow! Vapourized into nothing along with the rest of the camp site, and still leaving enough of the deadly stuff to start a massive forest fire. These whackos are actually claiming that the raging inferno allegedly created by the miraculously recycling, and impossibly hot burning kerosene melted or at least softened the steel supports of the skyscraper. Oblivious to the fact that the smoke coming from the WTC was black, which indicates an oxygen starved fire and, therefore, not particularly hot, they trumpet an alleged temperature in the building of 2000 C , without a shred of evidence to support this curious suspension of the laws of physics. Not content with this ludicrous garbage, they then contend that as the steel frames softened, they came straight down instead of buckling and twisting and falling sideways. Laws be damned Since they've already re-engineered the combustion qualities of jet fuel, violated the second law of thermodynamics, and redefined the structural properties of steel, why let a little thing like the laws of gravity get in the way? The tower fell in a time almost identical to that of a free-falling object, dropped from that height, meaning that it's physically impossible for it to have collapsed by the method of the top floors smashing through the lower floors. But, according to the conspiracy theorists, the laws of gravity were temporarily suspended on the morning of Sept 11. It appears that the evil psychic power of those dreadful Arabs knew no bounds. Even after they were dead, they were able, by the power of their evil spirits, to force down the tower at a speed physically impossible under the laws of gravity, had it been meeting any resistance from fireproofed steel structures originally designed to resist many tons of hurricane force wind -- as well as the impact of a Boeing passenger jet straying off course. Clearly, these conspiracy nuts never did their science homework at school, but did become extremely adept at inventing tall tales for why they couldn't complete their assignments. “Muslim terrorists stole my notes, sir” “No miss, the kerosene heater blew up and vapourized everything in the street, except for my passport.” “You see sir, the school bus was hijacked by Arabs who destroyed my homework because they hate our freedoms.” Or perhaps they misunderstood the term “creative science” and mistakenly thought that coming up with such rubbish was in fact, their science homework. The ferocious heat generated by this ghastly kerosene was, according to the conspiracy theorists, the reason why so many of the WTC victims can't be identified. DNA is destroyed by heat. (Although 2000 C isn't really required, 100 degrees C will generally do the job). This is quite remarkable, because according to the conspiracy theorist, the nature of DNA suddenly changes if you go to a different city. Not all DNA created equal That's right! If you are killed by an Arab terrorist in NY, your DNA will be destroyed by such temperatures. But if you are killed by an Arab terrorist in Washington DC, your DNA will be so robust that it can survive temperatures which completely vapourize a 65-ton aircraft. You see, these loonies have somehow concocted the idea that the missile which hit the pentagon was not a missile at all, but one of the hijacked planes. And to prove this unlikely premise, they point to a propaganda statement from the Bush regime, which rather stupidly claims that all but one of the people aboard the plane were identified from the site by DNA testing, even though nothing remains of the plane. “The plane was vapourized by the fuel tank explosion,” maintain these space loonies, but only one of the people inside it were not identified by DNA testing. So there we have it. The qualities of DNA are different, depending upon which city you're in, or perhaps depending upon which fairy story you're trying to sell at any particular time. Missiles have wings, too This concoction about one of the hijacked planes hitting the Pentagon really is a howler. For those not familiar with the layout of the Pentagon, it consists of five rings of building, each with a space in between. Each ring of building is about 30 to 35 feet deep, with a similar amount of open space between it and the next ring. The object which penetrated the Pentagon went in at about a 45 degree angle, punching a neat, circular hole about 12 feet in diameter through three rings (six walls). A little later a section of wall about 65 feet wide collapsed in the outer ring. Since the plane, which the conspiracy theorists claim to be responsible for the impact, had a wing span of 125 feet and a length of 155 feet and there was no wreckage of the plane, either inside or outside the building, and the lawns outside were still smooth and green enough to play golf on, this crazy delusion is clearly a physical impossibility. But hey, we've already disregarded the combustion qualities of jet fuel, the normal properties of common building materials, the properties of DNA, the laws of gravity and the second law of thermodynamics, so what the hell -- why not throw in a little spatial impossibility as well? I would have thought that the observation that a solid object cannot pass through another solid object without leaving a hole at least as big as itself is reasonably sound science. But to the conspiracy theorist, this is “mumbo jumbo.” It conflicts with the delusion that they're hooked on, so it “must be wrong” although trying to get them to explain exactly how it could be wrong is a futile endeavour. Conspiracy theorists fly into a curious panic whenever the Pentagon missile is mentioned. They nervously maintain that the plane was vapourized by it's exploding fuel load and point to the WTC crash as evidence of this behavior (That is a wonderful fruit loop). Like an insect which has just been sprayed, running back and forth in its last mad death throes, they first argue that the reason the hole is so small is that the plane never entered the wall, having blown up outside, and then suddenly backflip to explain the 250 feet deep missile hole by saying that the plane disappeared all the way into the building, and then blew up inside the building (even though the building shows no sign of such damage). As for what happened to the wings, here's where they get really creative. The wings snapped off and folded into the fuselage which then carried them into the building, which then closed up behind the plane like a piece of meat. When it suits them, they'll also claim that the plane slid in on its belly, (ignoring the undamaged lawn) while at the same time citing alleged witnesses to the plane diving steeply into the building from an “irrecoverable angle.” How they reconcile these two scenarios as being compatible is truly a study in applied stupidity. Epilogue Once they get desperate enough, you can be sure that the UFO conspiracy stuff will make an appearance. The Arabs are in league with the Martians. Space aliens snatched the remains of the Pentagon plane and fixed most of the hole in the wall, just to confuse people. They gave the Arabs invisibility pills to help get them onto the planes. Little green men were seen talking to Bin Laden a few weeks prior to the attacks. As the nation gears up to impeach the traitor Bush, and stop his perpetual oil war, it's not helpful to have these idiots distracting from the process by spreading silly conspiracy theories about mythical Arabs, stories which do nothing but play into the hands of the extremist Bush regime. At a less serious time, we might tolerate such crackpots with amused detachment, but they need to understand that the treachery that was perpetrated on Sept. 11, and the subsequent war crimes committed in “retaliation” are far too serious for us to allow such frivolous self indulgence to go unchallenged. Those who are truly addicted to conspiracy delusions should find a more appropriate outlet for their paranoia. Its time to stop loony conspiracy theories about Sept 11. Copyright Gerard Holmgren. Jan 2003 debunker@hotmail.com Poster Comment: “Excuse me sir, why do you have a boxcutter, a gun, a container of gas, a gas mask and an electronic guidance unit in your luggage?” “A present for your grandmother? Very well sir, on you get.” LOLOL!!!
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#1. To: James Deffenbach (#0)
Bush was never impeached..... Still , his execution can commence upon his apprehension. ____________________________________________________________ . . . The US government has declared civil war on itself. Its lust for war grew so great... Liberty before death. We run , we live, We fight again, till we win. We did not start this fight. We damn sure did not willingly pay our taxes to buy the bullets and drones that shall be used to kill us. We will correct the violations of this rogue nation....our rogue nation. We will fix this because nobody else can. You will work to help me help us all to fix this failure. After you're done educating yourself, Action!!!
Well, I read it with an open mind until he came out with the above "fact". If one replaces the term "Arab" with "hijackers", then the author places himself at the top of the "silly" list, not worthy of any consideration.
If one replaces the term "Arab" with "hijackers", then the author places himself at the top of the "silly" list, not worthy of any consideration. There were no Arab names on the passenger lists. How these arabs materialized on the planes is troublesome especially when 10 of them were allegedly on terrorist watch lists. 9-11 was an inside job. "In an unjust society, the only place for a just man is prison." Thoreau
MIHOP bump “The most dangerous man to any government is the man who is able to think things out... without regard to the prevailing superstitions and taboos. Almost inevitably he comes to the conclusion that the government he lives under is dishonest, insane, intolerable.” ~ H. L. Mencken
When authors create their own "facts" out of thin air one has to read further with caution.
But you are assigning words to him that he didn't say. He never said there were no hijackers on the plane. Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. Lord Acton The human herd stampedes on the fields of facts and the valleys of truth to get to the desert of ignorance. Saman Mohammadi "If a politician found he had cannibals among his constituents, he would promise them missionaries for dinner." Mencken "..if the military is going to defend our freedoms, then we need freedoms to defend. Our freedoms must be restored before the military can defend them..." Lawrence M. Vance Você me trata desse jeito só porque eu sou preto. Junior (my youngest son)
And several that they claimed were on the planes were out happily conducting business AFTER the planes crashed. Damned resilient that bunch--must have been made from the same miracle material those passports were made from. Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. Lord Acton The human herd stampedes on the fields of facts and the valleys of truth to get to the desert of ignorance. Saman Mohammadi "If a politician found he had cannibals among his constituents, he would promise them missionaries for dinner." Mencken "..if the military is going to defend our freedoms, then we need freedoms to defend. Our freedoms must be restored before the military can defend them..." Lawrence M. Vance Você me trata desse jeito só porque eu sou preto. Junior (my youngest son)
bin Laden,for many years, warned about revenge because of the U.S. humiliating the Islamic world for some 60 years. I sense a disturbance in the farce. Much gnashing will ensue.
LOL! this is great!
I stressed IF ONE REPLACES the term Arabs etc etc, not subscribing anything to the author. If one is to believe the experts, doctors, scientists etc involved, their DNA findings were very definitive about Arab DNA etc. Of course if we discount all government findings, the entire idea is moot. I believe DNA was found at the Pentagon for all concerned except one young boy.
the passports that the govt claims were found- that still tops the list of the most absurd aspect of their story, imo. I always use that one first.
"Even to the death fight for truth, and the LORD your God will battle for you". Sirach 4:28
I have lived long enough and heard enough government lies to discount most of what they say. You know what makes me believe the government was involved in that up to the eyeballs? The stand down order when big-ass commercial jets roamed about freely off course for close to two hours and weren't intercepted. Took less time for them to intercept Payne Stewart's plane that had gone off course and it certainly could not have done the damage four big commercial airliners could. And you have Cheney there telling the kid the orders still stood as the plane was coming in and only ten miles out. Had to be orders to let him come in unmolested since that is what happened. Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. Lord Acton The human herd stampedes on the fields of facts and the valleys of truth to get to the desert of ignorance. Saman Mohammadi "If a politician found he had cannibals among his constituents, he would promise them missionaries for dinner." Mencken "..if the military is going to defend our freedoms, then we need freedoms to defend. Our freedoms must be restored before the military can defend them..." Lawrence M. Vance Você me trata desse jeito só porque eu sou preto. Junior (my youngest son)
There were several things in that article that cracked me up. This was another "good 'un!" When I was at school there was a little thing called the entropy law which suggests that a given portion of fuel can only burn once, something which is readily observable in the real world, even for those who didn't make it to junior high school science. But this is no problem for the conspiracy theorist... Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. Lord Acton The human herd stampedes on the fields of facts and the valleys of truth to get to the desert of ignorance. Saman Mohammadi "If a politician found he had cannibals among his constituents, he would promise them missionaries for dinner." Mencken "..if the military is going to defend our freedoms, then we need freedoms to defend. Our freedoms must be restored before the military can defend them..." Lawrence M. Vance Você me trata desse jeito só porque eu sou preto. Junior (my youngest son)
I tell you, I would like to have a passport like that! Survived intact, not a burn mark, nothing and everything just going to hell all around it. They should make planes and cars out of the same material. Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. Lord Acton The human herd stampedes on the fields of facts and the valleys of truth to get to the desert of ignorance. Saman Mohammadi "If a politician found he had cannibals among his constituents, he would promise them missionaries for dinner." Mencken "..if the military is going to defend our freedoms, then we need freedoms to defend. Our freedoms must be restored before the military can defend them..." Lawrence M. Vance Você me trata desse jeito só porque eu sou preto. Junior (my youngest son)
its been interesting watching 911 transform from a shocking affront to fodder for conspiracy minutia, as years roll on. Bottom line, morons who buy the JFK, Tonkin, OKC, 911 bullshit are simply, deeply asleep & grossly unaware of reality.Its a shame.
"Even to the death fight for truth, and the LORD your God will battle for you". Sirach 4:28
Hard to imagine that anyone believes ANY of the governments claims after all that but some still do. And you're right, it is a shame. Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. Lord Acton The human herd stampedes on the fields of facts and the valleys of truth to get to the desert of ignorance. Saman Mohammadi "If a politician found he had cannibals among his constituents, he would promise them missionaries for dinner." Mencken "..if the military is going to defend our freedoms, then we need freedoms to defend. Our freedoms must be restored before the military can defend them..." Lawrence M. Vance Você me trata desse jeito só porque eu sou preto. Junior (my youngest son)
My sister sent me an article that appeared in the Indianapolis Star very soon after the 9-11 event. (Within a day or 2) The article listed all of the passengers on the 4 planes of which none were arab sounding names. Maybe these trickey A-rabs dressed up like Irish men. "In an unjust society, the only place for a just man is prison." Thoreau
Yeah, that too - Allah be blessed ! "In an unjust society, the only place for a just man is prison." Thoreau
agreed and they are also the reason why governments can do false flags and get away with them.
Actually, they snuck onboard by robbing the clothes right off the back of some Roman Catholic nuns, as show here below in the candid security video... Indeed. Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. Lord Acton The human herd stampedes on the fields of facts and the valleys of truth to get to the desert of ignorance. Saman Mohammadi "If a politician found he had cannibals among his constituents, he would promise them missionaries for dinner." Mencken "..if the military is going to defend our freedoms, then we need freedoms to defend. Our freedoms must be restored before the military can defend them..." Lawrence M. Vance Você me trata desse jeito só porque eu sou preto. Junior (my youngest son)
Cheney and the layers of "authority" below him did NOT have the strength of character to order anything, let alone shoot down an airliner. They did nothing. The FAA man that finally ordered ALL AIRCRAFT grounded did so on his own. His own FAA HQ could not and did not do anything. In mass confusion people in responsible jobs very often fail the test. It remains the job for smaller fish to make the decisions that have to be made. FAA, Sliney, brought down or turned back 4500 aircraft and all US airspace was cleared within two hours. He acted on his own while Cheney and the rest of the idiots ran in circles.
Apparently he had, or thought he had, the authority to tell the kid who was asking him that the orders stood. And what could those orders have been if not to let the plane come in unmolested? If the orders had been to take it out then I would assume they would have done that before it got that close. Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. Lord Acton The human herd stampedes on the fields of facts and the valleys of truth to get to the desert of ignorance. Saman Mohammadi "If a politician found he had cannibals among his constituents, he would promise them missionaries for dinner." Mencken "..if the military is going to defend our freedoms, then we need freedoms to defend. Our freedoms must be restored before the military can defend them..." Lawrence M. Vance Você me trata desse jeito só porque eu sou preto. Junior (my youngest son)
I believe that the orders were to continue the scheduled drills and the stand-down. 93 was shot down independently of any orders from deecee. “The most dangerous man to any government is the man who is able to think things out... without regard to the prevailing superstitions and taboos. Almost inevitably he comes to the conclusion that the government he lives under is dishonest, insane, intolerable.” ~ H. L. Mencken
The one where the passengers allegedly attacked the hijackers? Yeah, I don't know who issued the orders for that shoot down but it is pretty obvious that that is what it was. Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. Lord Acton The human herd stampedes on the fields of facts and the valleys of truth to get to the desert of ignorance. Saman Mohammadi "If a politician found he had cannibals among his constituents, he would promise them missionaries for dinner." Mencken "..if the military is going to defend our freedoms, then we need freedoms to defend. Our freedoms must be restored before the military can defend them..." Lawrence M. Vance Você me trata desse jeito só porque eu sou preto. Junior (my youngest son)
Search for who shot down flight 93. Startpage just returned over 844K+ results on that topic. With a debris field of over eight miles, clearly, it was shot down by someone; and not wrestled down and crashed. While we're at it, there were zero phone calls made from 30K feet that day. “The most dangerous man to any government is the man who is able to think things out... without regard to the prevailing superstitions and taboos. Almost inevitably he comes to the conclusion that the government he lives under is dishonest, insane, intolerable.” ~ H. L. Mencken
With no actual knowledge either way, I would wager odds are against such. Take the USS Liberty false flag event. The President and Sec of Defense were directly involved and look at the mass confusion that ensued. They tried to cover it up and it failed, even tho all involved were military. When too many people are involved there is little or no chance of "hiding" anything. Take the shoot down. Far too many people, civilian and military were involved for secrecy. The odds are just too great against.
Flight 93: Proof of 9/11 Lies by the US Government and Media
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. Lord Acton The human herd stampedes on the fields of facts and the valleys of truth to get to the desert of ignorance. Saman Mohammadi "If a politician found he had cannibals among his constituents, he would promise them missionaries for dinner." Mencken "..if the military is going to defend our freedoms, then we need freedoms to defend. Our freedoms must be restored before the military can defend them..." Lawrence M. Vance Você me trata desse jeito só porque eu sou preto. Junior (my youngest son)
This is a classic and should be put up every now and then just to remind people just how outrageously stupid the Gubbermunt's Official Conspiracy Theory is.
Check this, and search the hundreds of thousands of other references to the shoot-down -
“The most dangerous man to any government is the man who is able to think things out... without regard to the prevailing superstitions and taboos. Almost inevitably he comes to the conclusion that the government he lives under is dishonest, insane, intolerable.” ~ H. L. Mencken
If one is to believe the experts, doctors, scientists etc involved, their DNA findings were very definitive about Arab DNA etc. Of course if we discount all government findings, the entire idea is moot. I believe DNA was found at the Pentagon for all concerned except one young boy. The problem one faces with that is that the DNA in the WTC Towers was allegedly indecipherable because of the heat of the fires. And yet we have a contradictory datum that DNA in the Pentagram fire somehow has different properties than when it is located in New York. This in a fire which allegedly consumed the entire plane and all of its contents. So, we have in NY the fire destroyed the DNA but the fire at the Pentagram can consume metal and leave DNA intact. Logical Axiom: If one is presented with two mutually exclusive datums the first thing we can know with any certainty is that one or both are FALSE. The odds are just too great against. Strawman Argument: One can cite multiple examples of cover ups which have spanned generations - the JFK Assassination stands out as an example. Even after 50 years there are still entire categories of evidence that are being kept under lock and key. There are still papers from the Manhattan Project under lock and key and NO ONE outside of the Guffermint has ever gained access to Nikola Tesla's working papers. The Tuskegee Experiment was kept secret for 50+ years. And I could go on. Your argument does not hold water. Next!! Amen. I tire of arguing the unarguable. “The most dangerous man to any government is the man who is able to think things out... without regard to the prevailing superstitions and taboos. Almost inevitably he comes to the conclusion that the government he lives under is dishonest, insane, intolerable.” ~ H. L. Mencken
I agree. Shows how people can twist themselves up into all kinds of knots to accept the government's clearly insane conspiracy theory.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. Lord Acton The human herd stampedes on the fields of facts and the valleys of truth to get to the desert of ignorance. Saman Mohammadi "If a politician found he had cannibals among his constituents, he would promise them missionaries for dinner." Mencken "..if the military is going to defend our freedoms, then we need freedoms to defend. Our freedoms must be restored before the military can defend them..." Lawrence M. Vance Você me trata desse jeito só porque eu sou preto. Junior (my youngest son)
Thanks I've run into that argumentive line so many times that I tire of it. The reality is that secrets can be kept and are kept through intimidation, threats of People try to assume that the government does not kill inconvenient witnesses. I think we should ask Pat Tillman about that. There is far too much disinformation available everywhere. This works to the advantage of the government to obscure whether they had at least prior knowledge and or direct participation in 911. Being an odds maker, I would give odds the government via some agency, WAS INVOLVED FROM DAY ONE. People are wasting their time and effort by being led down false and foolish trails by "experts". One person, you have a secret, two people, if it becomes known, both know who did it. Three people, there is no secret and ONLY ONE PERSON KNOWS WHO SNITCHED. Example, people make much of a wallet or passport or something being found. Nothing mysterious at all about that. It happens all the time in major crashes.
And it does it with great humor by pointing out the absurdity of major parts of the "Official Conspiracy Theory". And yet some people insist upon believing the absurdity as they lack the capacity, or courage, to confront the reality. 911 WAS AN INSIDE JOB. Yeah, that is what I liked about the article. Stated facts but in an entertaining way.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. Lord Acton The human herd stampedes on the fields of facts and the valleys of truth to get to the desert of ignorance. Saman Mohammadi "If a politician found he had cannibals among his constituents, he would promise them missionaries for dinner." Mencken "..if the military is going to defend our freedoms, then we need freedoms to defend. Our freedoms must be restored before the military can defend them..." Lawrence M. Vance Você me trata desse jeito só porque eu sou preto. Junior (my youngest son)
Bottom-line truth. Ask Pat...oh wait - they blew his head off. “The most dangerous man to any government is the man who is able to think things out... without regard to the prevailing superstitions and taboos. Almost inevitably he comes to the conclusion that the government he lives under is dishonest, insane, intolerable.” ~ H. L. Mencken
Bottom-line truth. Ask Pat...oh wait - they blew his head off. There are a couple others I could think of - like Seal Team 6 and the phony Osama hit, and the Seal Team members that got whacked to try and prop up the story of the "brave female hero" in the Iraqi hospital. The only thing that saved her life was that she made a big public noise about NOT being the hero she was being painted as. After that it was the story that died. Collect your winnings. I hope that you bet the farm and all the mineral rights therein. “The most dangerous man to any government is the man who is able to think things out... without regard to the prevailing superstitions and taboos. Almost inevitably he comes to the conclusion that the government he lives under is dishonest, insane, intolerable.” ~ H. L. Mencken
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#2. To: James Deffenbach (#0)
For a start, they conveniently skip over the awkward fact that there weren't any Arabs on the planes.
#3. To: Cynicom (#2)
Well, I read it with an open mind until he came out with the above "fact".
#4. To: noone222 (#3)
There were no Arab names on the passenger lists.
#5. To: noone222 (#3)
#6. To: Cynicom (#2)
If one replaces the term "Arab" with "hijackers", then the author places himself at the top of the "silly" list, not worthy of any consideration.
#7. To: noone222 (#3)
There were no Arab names on the passenger lists. How these arabs materialized on the planes is troublesome especially when 10 of them were allegedly on terrorist watch lists.
#8. To: Cynicom (#2)
Osama bin Laden, with no apparent motivation other than that they “hate our freedoms.”
#9. To: James Deffenbach (#0)
Hmm? So they got on board with false IDs but took their real passports with them? However, by this time the fruit loop has been completely circumnavigated, and the conspiracy theorist exclaims impatiently, “Who said anything about false IDs? We know what seats they were sitting in! Their presence is well documented!”
#10. To: James Deffenbach (#6)
But you are assigning words to him that he didn't say. He never said there were no hijackers on the plane.
#11. To: James Deffenbach (#7)
#12. To: Cynicom (#10)
Of course if we discount all government findings, the entire idea is moot.
#13. To: christine (#9)
LOL! this is great!
You see, it (the kerosene) not only consumed itself in a sudden catastrophic fireball, vapourizing a 65-ton plane into nothing, but then came back for a second go, burning at 2000 degrees C for another hour at the impact point, melting the skyscraper's steel like butter. And, while it was doing all this, it also poured down the elevator shafts, starting fires all through the building.
#14. To: Artisan (#11)
the passports that the govt claims were found- that still tops the list of the most absurd aspect of their story, imo. I always use that one first.
#15. To: James Deffenbach (#12)
#16. To: Artisan (#15)
Bottom line, morons who buy the JFK, Tonkin, OKC, 911 bullshit are simply, deeply asleep & grossly unaware of reality.Its a shame.
#17. To: Cynicom (#5)
#18. To: James Deffenbach (#7)
And several that they claimed were on the planes were out happily conducting business AFTER the planes crashed. Damned resilient that bunch--must have been made from the same miracle material those passports were made from.
#19. To: Artisan (#15)
Bottom line, morons who buy the JFK, Tonkin, OKC, 911 bullshit are simply, deeply asleep & grossly unaware of reality.Its a shame.
#20. To: noone222, Cynicom, James Deffenbach (#17)
Maybe these trickey A-rabs dressed up like Irish men.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#21. To: noone222 (#18)
Yeah, that too - Allah be blessed !
#22. To: James Deffenbach (#12)
And you have Cheney there telling the kid the orders still stood as the plane was coming in and only ten miles out. Had to be orders to let him come in unmolested since that is what happened.
#23. To: Cynicom (#22)
Cheney and the layers of "authority" below him did NOT have the strength of character to order anything, let alone shoot down an airliner.
#24. To: James Deffenbach, 4 (#23)
#25. To: Lod (#24)
93 was shot down independently of any orders from deecee.
#26. To: James Deffenbach (#25)
#27. To: Lod (#24)
93 was shot down independently of any orders from deecee.
#28. To: Lod (#26)
#29. To: James Deffenbach (#0)
#30. To: Cynicom (#27)
#31. To: Cynicom, James Deffenbach (#10)
I stressed IF ONE REPLACES the term Arabs etc etc, not subscribing anything to the author.
#32. To: Cynicom, Lod (#27)
Take the shoot down. Far too many people, civilian and military were involved for secrecy.
#33. To: Original_Intent (#32)
#34. To: Original_Intent (#29)
#35. To: Lod (#33)
prosecutions persecution, and the old fashioned way by whacking witnesses. It is amazing how many people who stood to know things that would shatter the government story about the JFK Assassination had "accidents".
#36. To: Lod (#30)
Check this, and search the hundreds of thousands of other references to the shoot-down -
#37. To: James Deffenbach (#34)
I agree. Shows how people can twist themselves up into all kinds of knots to accept the government's clearly insane conspiracy theory.
#38. To: Original_Intent (#37)
#39. To: Original_Intent (#35)
I think we should ask Pat Tillman about that.
#40. To: Lod (#39)
I think we should ask Pat Tillman about that.
#41. To: Cynicom (#36)
Being an odds maker, I would give odds the government via some agency, WAS INVOLVED FROM DAY ONE.
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