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Title: The looniest of all 9/11 conspiracy theories
Source:
Idaho Observer
URL Source: http://proliberty.com/observer/20030811.htm
Published: Sep 30, 2012
Author: Gerard Holmgren
Post Date: 2012-09-30 22:56:47 by James Deffenbach
Keywords: None
Views: 819
Comments: 76
From the August 2003 Idaho Observer: The looniest of all 9/11 conspiracy theories “Let us not tolerate outrageous conspiracy theories,” President Bush stated amid increasingly loud accusations that his administration may have allowed the tragic events of 9/11 to occur as a pretext justifying U.S. expansion of armed conflict around the world to allegedly wage war on terrorism. Curiously, most of the “outrageous conspiracy theories” to which he refers incorporate some extremely sound science, logic and witness testimony where the official version is lacking in those critical areas. The following is a rather clever and immensely sarcastic approach to the government's explanation of 9/11 -- which follows a pattern established by the “magic bullet theory” to explain the assassination of JFK and a Ryder truck full of fertilizer and fuel oil to explain the damage at the Murrah federal building in OK City. by Gerard Holmgren Astute observers of history are aware that for every notable event there will usually be at least one ,often several wild conspiracy theories which spring up around it. “The CIA killed Hendrix”; “the Pope had John Lennon murdered”; “Hitler was half Werewolf”; “Space aliens replaced Nixon with a clone,” etc, etc. The bigger the event, the more ridiculous and more numerous are the fanciful rantings which circulate in relation to it. So its hardly surprising that the events of Sept. 11, 2001, have spawned their fair share of these ludicrous fairy tales. And as always, there is -- sadly -- a small but gullible percentage of the population eager to lap up these tall tales, regardless of facts or rational analysis. One of the wilder stories circulating about Sept 11 (and one that has attracted something of a cult following amongst conspiracy buffs) is that it was carried out by 19 fanatical Arab hijackers, masterminded by an evil genius named Osama bin Laden, with no apparent motivation other than that they “hate our freedoms.” Never a group of people to be bothered by facts, the perpetrators of this cartoon fantasy have constructed an elaborately woven web of delusions and unsubstantiated hearsay in order to promote this garbage across the Internet and the media to the extent that a number of otherwise rational people have actually fallen under its spell. Normally I don't even bother debunking this kind of junk, but the effect that this paranoid myth is beginning to have requires a little rational analysis, in order to consign it to the same rubbish bin as all such silly conspiracy theories. These crackpots even contend that the extremist Bush regime was caught unawares by the attacks, had no hand in organizing them and actually would have stopped them if it had been able. Blindly ignoring the stand down of the U.S. Air Force, the insider trading on airline stocks (linked to the CIA), the complicit behavior of Bush on the morning of the attacks, the controlled demolition of the WTC, the firing of a missile into the Pentagon and a host of other documented proofs that the Bush regime was behind the attacks, the conspiracy theorists stick doggedly to a silly story about 19 Arab hijackers somehow managing to commandeer four planes simultaneously and fly them around U.S. airspace for nearly two hours, crashing them into important buildings, without the U.S. intelligence services having any idea that it was coming, and without the Air Force knowing what to do. The daunting task of analysis The huge difficulties with such a stupid story force them to invent even more preposterous stories to distract from its core silliness, and thus the tale has escalated into a mythic fantasy of truly gargantuan proportions. It's difficult to apply rational analysis to such unmitigated stupidity, but that is the task which I take on in this article. However, it should be noted that one of the curious characteristics of conspiracy theorists is that they effortlessly change their so called evidence in response to each aspect which is debunked. As soon as one delusion is unmasked, they simply invent another to replace it and deny that the first ever existed. Eventually, when they have turned full circle through this endlessly changing fantasy fog , they then reinvent the original delusion and deny that you ever debunked it, thus beginning the circle once more. This technique is known as “the fruit loop” and saves the conspiracy theorist from ever having to see any of their ideas through to their (ill)logical conclusions. The fruit loop According to the practitioners of the fruit loop, 19 Arabs took over the four planes by subduing the passengers and crew through the use of guns, knives, box cutters and gas, and then used electronic guidance systems which they had smuggled on board to fly the planes to their targets. The suspension of disbelief required for this outrageous concoction is only for the hard core conspiracy theorist. For a start, they conveniently skip over the awkward fact that there weren't any Arabs on the planes. If there were, one must speculate that they somehow got on board without being filmed by any of the security cameras and without being registered on the passenger lists. But the curly question of how they are supposed to have got on board is all too mundane for the exciting world of the conspiracy theorist. Who's on first? With vague mumblings that they must have been using false ID (but never specifying which IDs they are alleged to have used, or how these were traced to their real identities), they quickly bypass this problem, to relate exciting and sinister tales about how some of the fictitious fiends were actually searched before boarding because they looked suspicious. However, as inevitably happens with any web of lies, this simply paints them into an even more difficult corner. How are they supposed to have gotten on board with all that stuff if they were searched? And if they used gas in a confined space, they would have been affected themselves unless they also had masks in their luggage. “Excuse me sir, why do you have a boxcutter, a gun, a container of gas, a gas mask and an electronic guidance unit in your luggage?” “A present for your grandmother? Very well sir, on you get.” “Very strange,” thinks the security officer. “That's the fourth Arabic man without an Arabic name who just got on board with a knife, gun or boxcutter and gas mask. And why does that security camera keep flicking off every time one these characters shows up? Must be one of those days I guess...” Asking any of these basic questions to a conspiracy theorist is likely to cause a sudden leap to the claim that we know that they were on board because they left a credit card trail for the tickets they had purchased and cars they had rented. So, if they used credit cards that identified them, how does that reconcile with the claim that they used false IDs to get on to the plane? But by this time, the fruit loop is in full swing, as the conspiracy theorist tries to stay one jump ahead of this annoying and awkward rational analysis. They will allege that the hijackers' passports were found at the crash scenes. “So there!” they exalt triumphantly, their fanatical faces lighting up with that deranged look of one who has just experienced a revelation of questionable sanity. Hmm? So they got on board with false IDs but took their real passports with them? However, by this time the fruit loop has been completely circumnavigated, and the conspiracy theorist exclaims impatiently, “Who said anything about false IDs? We know what seats they were sitting in! Their presence is well documented!” And so the whole loop starts again. “Well, why aren't they on the passenger lists?” “You numbskull! They assumed the identities of other passengers!” And so on... Finally, out of sheer fascination with this circular method of creative delusion, the rational sceptic will allow them to get away with this loop, in order to move on to the next question, and see what further delights await us in the unraveling of this marvelously stupid story. “Uh, how come their passports survived fiery crashes that completely incinerated the planes and all the passengers?” The answer of course is that its just one of those strange coincidences, those little quirks of fate that do happen from time to time. You know, like the same person winning the lottery four weeks in a row. The odds are astronomical, but these things do happen... This is another favourite deductive method of the conspiracy theorist. The “improbability drive,” in which they decide upon a conclusion without any evidence whatsoever to support it, and then continually speculate a series of wildly improbable events and unbelievable coincidences to support it, shrugging off the implausibility of each event with the vague assertion that sometimes the impossible happens (just about all the time in their world). There is a principle called “Occam's razor” which suggests that in the absence of evidence to the contrary, the simplest explanation is most likely to be correct. Conspiracy theorists hate Occam's razor. Hijacking 101 Having for the sake of amusement, allowed them to get away with the silly story of the 19 invisible Arabs, we move on to the question of how they are supposed to have taken over the planes. Hijacking a plane is not an easy thing to do. Hijacking it without the pilot being able to alert ground control is nearly impossible. The pilot has only to punch in a four digit code to alert ground control to a hijacking. Unconcerned with the awkward question of plausibility, the conspiracy buffs maintain that on that Sept 11, the invisible hijackers took over the plane by the rather crude method of threatening people with boxcutters and knives, and spraying gas (after they had attached their masks, obviously), but somehow took control of the plane without the crew first getting a chance to punch in the hijacking code. Not just on one plane, but on all four. At this point in the tale, the conspiracy theorist is again forced to call upon the services of the improbability drive. So now that our incredibly lucky hijackers have taken control of the planes, all four pilots fly them with breathtaking skill and certainty to their fiery end -- all four unflinching in their steely resolve for a swift meeting with Allah. Apart from their psychotic hatred of “our freedoms,” it was their fanatical devotion to Islam which enabled them to summon up the iron will to do this. Which is strange, because according to another piece of hearsay peddled by the conspiracy buffs, these guys actually went out drinking and womanizing the night before their great martyrdom, even leaving their Korans in the bar -- really impeccable Islamic behavior -- and then got up at 5 a.m. the next morning to pull off the greatest covert operation in history. This also requires us to believe that they were even clear headed enough to learn how to fly the huge planes by reading flight manuals in Arabic in the car on the way to the airport. We know this because they supposedly left the flight manuals there for us to find. It gets better. Their practical training had allegedly been limited to Cessnas and flight simulators, but this was no barrier to the unflinching certainty with which they took over the planes and skillfully guided them to their doom. If they are supposed to have done their flight training with these tools, which would be available just about anywhere in the world, its not clear why they would have decided to risk blowing their cover to U.S. intelligence services by doing the training in Florida, rather than somewhere in the Middle East, but such reasoning is foreign to the foggy world of the conspiracy theorist, too trapped in the constant rotation of the mental fruit loop to make their unsubstantiated fabrications seem even semi-believable. A Ryder truck with wings? Having triumphantly established a circular delusion in support of the mythical Arabs, the conspiracy theorist now confronts the difficult question of why there's nothing left of the planes. Anybody who has seen the endlessly replayed footage of the second plane going into the WTC will realize that the plane was packed with explosives. Planes do not and cannot blow up into nothing in that manner when they crash. Did the mythical Arabs also haul a huge heap of explosives on board, and manage to deploy them in such a manner that they went off in the exact instant of the crash, completely vapourizing the plane? This is a little difficult even for the conspiracy theorist, who at this point decides that its easier to invent new laws of physics in order to keep the delusion rolling along. There weren't any explosives. It wasn't an inside job. The plane blew up into nothing from its exploding fuel load! Remarkable! Sluggishly combustible jet fuel, which is basically kerosene and which burns at a maximum temperature of around 800 C, has suddenly taken on the qualities of a ferociously explosive demolition agent, vapourizing 65 tons of aircraft into a puff of smoke. Never mind that a plane of that size contains around 15 tons of steel and titanium, of which even the melting points are about double that of the maximum combustion temperature of kerosene -- let alone the boiling point -- which is what would be required to vapourize a plane. And then there's about 50 tons of aluminium to be accounted for. In excess of 15 pounds of metal was vapourized for each gallon of kerosene. For the conspiracy theorist, such inconvenient facts are vaguely dismissed as “mumbo jumbo.” This convenient little phrase is their answer to just about anything factual or logical. Like a conjurer pulling a rabbit out of a hat, they suddenly become fanatically insistent about the devastating explosive qualities of kerosene, something hitherto completely unknown to science, but just discovered by them, at that very moment. Blissfully ignoring the fact that never before or since in aviation history has a plane vapourized into nothing from an exploding fuel load, the conspiracy theorist relies upon Hollywood images, where the effects are always larger than life, and certainly larger than the intellects of these cretins. “Its a well known fact that planes blow up into nothing on impact,” they state with pompous certainty. “Watch any Bruce Willis movie.” “Care to provide any documented examples? If it's a well known fact, then presumably this well known fact springs from some kind of documentation -- other than Bruce Willis movies?” At this point the mad but cunning eyes of the conspiracy theorist will narrow as they sense the corner that they have backed themselves into, and plan their escape by means of another stunning backflip. “Ah, but planes have never crashed into buildings before, so there's no way of telling,” they counter with a sly grin. Well, actually planes have crashed into buildings before (and since). None of them vapourized into almost nothing. “But not big planes, with that much fuel,” they shriek in hysterical denial. Or that much metal to vapourize. “Yes but not hijacked planes!” “Are you suggesting that whether the crash is deliberate or accidental affects the combustion qualities of the fuel?” “Now you're just being silly.” Although collisions with buildings are rare, planes frequently crash into mountains, streets, other aircraft, nosedive into the ground, or have bombs planted aboard them, and don't vapourize into nothing. What's so special about a tower that's mostly glass? But by now, the conspiracy theorist has once again sailed happily around the fruit loop. “Its a well documented fact that planes explode into nothing on impact.” Effortlessly weaving back and forth between the position that its a “well known fact” and that “its never happened before, so we have nothing to compare it to,” the conspiracy theorist has now convinced themselves (if not too many other people) that the WTC plane was not loaded with explosives, and that the instant vapourization of the plane in a massive fireball was the same as any other plane crash you might care to mention. Round and round the fruit loop... The “new math” But the hurdles which confront the conspiracy theorist are many, and they are now forced to implement even more creative uses for the newly discovered shockingly destructive qualities of kerosene. They have to explain how the Arabs also engineered the elegant vertical collapse of both the WTC towers, and for this awkward fact the easiest counter is to simply deny that it was a controlled demolition, and claim that the buildings collapsed from fire caused by the burning kerosene. For this, its necessary to sweep aside the second law of thermodynamics and propose kerosene, which is not only impossibly destructive, but also recycles itself for a second burning in violation of the law of degradation of energy. You see, it not only consumed itself in a sudden catastrophic fireball, vapourizing a 65-ton plane into nothing, but then came back for a second go, burning at 2000 degrees C for another hour at the impact point, melting the skyscraper's steel like butter. And, while it was doing all this, it also poured down the elevator shafts, starting fires all through the building. When I was at school there was a little thing called the entropy law which suggests that a given portion of fuel can only burn once, something which is readily observable in the real world, even for those who didn't make it to junior high school science. But this is no problem for the conspiracy theorist. Gleefully, they claim that a few thousand gallons of kerosene is enough to: 1. completely vapourize a 65 ton aircraft; 2. have enough left over to burn ferociously enough for over an hour at the impact point to melt steel ( melting point about double the maximum combustion temperature of the fuel ); 3. still have enough left over to pour down the elevator shafts and start similarly destructive fires all throughout the building. This kerosene really is remarkable stuff! How chilling to realize that those kerosene heaters we had in the house when I was a kid were deadly bombs, just waiting to go off. One false move and the entire street might have been vapourized. And never again will I take kerosene lamps out camping. One moment you're there innocently holding the lamp, the next moment -- kapow! Vapourized into nothing along with the rest of the camp site, and still leaving enough of the deadly stuff to start a massive forest fire. These whackos are actually claiming that the raging inferno allegedly created by the miraculously recycling, and impossibly hot burning kerosene melted or at least softened the steel supports of the skyscraper. Oblivious to the fact that the smoke coming from the WTC was black, which indicates an oxygen starved fire and, therefore, not particularly hot, they trumpet an alleged temperature in the building of 2000 C , without a shred of evidence to support this curious suspension of the laws of physics. Not content with this ludicrous garbage, they then contend that as the steel frames softened, they came straight down instead of buckling and twisting and falling sideways. Laws be damned Since they've already re-engineered the combustion qualities of jet fuel, violated the second law of thermodynamics, and redefined the structural properties of steel, why let a little thing like the laws of gravity get in the way? The tower fell in a time almost identical to that of a free-falling object, dropped from that height, meaning that it's physically impossible for it to have collapsed by the method of the top floors smashing through the lower floors. But, according to the conspiracy theorists, the laws of gravity were temporarily suspended on the morning of Sept 11. It appears that the evil psychic power of those dreadful Arabs knew no bounds. Even after they were dead, they were able, by the power of their evil spirits, to force down the tower at a speed physically impossible under the laws of gravity, had it been meeting any resistance from fireproofed steel structures originally designed to resist many tons of hurricane force wind -- as well as the impact of a Boeing passenger jet straying off course. Clearly, these conspiracy nuts never did their science homework at school, but did become extremely adept at inventing tall tales for why they couldn't complete their assignments. “Muslim terrorists stole my notes, sir” “No miss, the kerosene heater blew up and vapourized everything in the street, except for my passport.” “You see sir, the school bus was hijacked by Arabs who destroyed my homework because they hate our freedoms.” Or perhaps they misunderstood the term “creative science” and mistakenly thought that coming up with such rubbish was in fact, their science homework. The ferocious heat generated by this ghastly kerosene was, according to the conspiracy theorists, the reason why so many of the WTC victims can't be identified. DNA is destroyed by heat. (Although 2000 C isn't really required, 100 degrees C will generally do the job). This is quite remarkable, because according to the conspiracy theorist, the nature of DNA suddenly changes if you go to a different city. Not all DNA created equal That's right! If you are killed by an Arab terrorist in NY, your DNA will be destroyed by such temperatures. But if you are killed by an Arab terrorist in Washington DC, your DNA will be so robust that it can survive temperatures which completely vapourize a 65-ton aircraft. You see, these loonies have somehow concocted the idea that the missile which hit the pentagon was not a missile at all, but one of the hijacked planes. And to prove this unlikely premise, they point to a propaganda statement from the Bush regime, which rather stupidly claims that all but one of the people aboard the plane were identified from the site by DNA testing, even though nothing remains of the plane. “The plane was vapourized by the fuel tank explosion,” maintain these space loonies, but only one of the people inside it were not identified by DNA testing. So there we have it. The qualities of DNA are different, depending upon which city you're in, or perhaps depending upon which fairy story you're trying to sell at any particular time. Missiles have wings, too This concoction about one of the hijacked planes hitting the Pentagon really is a howler. For those not familiar with the layout of the Pentagon, it consists of five rings of building, each with a space in between. Each ring of building is about 30 to 35 feet deep, with a similar amount of open space between it and the next ring. The object which penetrated the Pentagon went in at about a 45 degree angle, punching a neat, circular hole about 12 feet in diameter through three rings (six walls). A little later a section of wall about 65 feet wide collapsed in the outer ring. Since the plane, which the conspiracy theorists claim to be responsible for the impact, had a wing span of 125 feet and a length of 155 feet and there was no wreckage of the plane, either inside or outside the building, and the lawns outside were still smooth and green enough to play golf on, this crazy delusion is clearly a physical impossibility. But hey, we've already disregarded the combustion qualities of jet fuel, the normal properties of common building materials, the properties of DNA, the laws of gravity and the second law of thermodynamics, so what the hell -- why not throw in a little spatial impossibility as well? I would have thought that the observation that a solid object cannot pass through another solid object without leaving a hole at least as big as itself is reasonably sound science. But to the conspiracy theorist, this is “mumbo jumbo.” It conflicts with the delusion that they're hooked on, so it “must be wrong” although trying to get them to explain exactly how it could be wrong is a futile endeavour. Conspiracy theorists fly into a curious panic whenever the Pentagon missile is mentioned. They nervously maintain that the plane was vapourized by it's exploding fuel load and point to the WTC crash as evidence of this behavior (That is a wonderful fruit loop). Like an insect which has just been sprayed, running back and forth in its last mad death throes, they first argue that the reason the hole is so small is that the plane never entered the wall, having blown up outside, and then suddenly backflip to explain the 250 feet deep missile hole by saying that the plane disappeared all the way into the building, and then blew up inside the building (even though the building shows no sign of such damage). As for what happened to the wings, here's where they get really creative. The wings snapped off and folded into the fuselage which then carried them into the building, which then closed up behind the plane like a piece of meat. When it suits them, they'll also claim that the plane slid in on its belly, (ignoring the undamaged lawn) while at the same time citing alleged witnesses to the plane diving steeply into the building from an “irrecoverable angle.” How they reconcile these two scenarios as being compatible is truly a study in applied stupidity. Epilogue Once they get desperate enough, you can be sure that the UFO conspiracy stuff will make an appearance. The Arabs are in league with the Martians. Space aliens snatched the remains of the Pentagon plane and fixed most of the hole in the wall, just to confuse people. They gave the Arabs invisibility pills to help get them onto the planes. Little green men were seen talking to Bin Laden a few weeks prior to the attacks. As the nation gears up to impeach the traitor Bush, and stop his perpetual oil war, it's not helpful to have these idiots distracting from the process by spreading silly conspiracy theories about mythical Arabs, stories which do nothing but play into the hands of the extremist Bush regime. At a less serious time, we might tolerate such crackpots with amused detachment, but they need to understand that the treachery that was perpetrated on Sept. 11, and the subsequent war crimes committed in “retaliation” are far too serious for us to allow such frivolous self indulgence to go unchallenged. Those who are truly addicted to conspiracy delusions should find a more appropriate outlet for their paranoia. Its time to stop loony conspiracy theories about Sept 11. Copyright Gerard Holmgren. Jan 2003 debunker@hotmail.com Poster Comment: “Excuse me sir, why do you have a boxcutter, a gun, a container of gas, a gas mask and an electronic guidance unit in your luggage?” “A present for your grandmother? Very well sir, on you get.” LOLOL!!!
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#37. To: James Deffenbach (#34)
And it does it with great humor by pointing out the absurdity of major parts of the "Official Conspiracy Theory". And yet some people insist upon believing the absurdity as they lack the capacity, or courage, to confront the reality. 911 WAS AN INSIDE JOB. Yeah, that is what I liked about the article. Stated facts but in an entertaining way.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. Lord Acton The human herd stampedes on the fields of facts and the valleys of truth to get to the desert of ignorance. Saman Mohammadi "If a politician found he had cannibals among his constituents, he would promise them missionaries for dinner." Mencken "..if the military is going to defend our freedoms, then we need freedoms to defend. Our freedoms must be restored before the military can defend them..." Lawrence M. Vance Você me trata desse jeito só porque eu sou preto. Junior (my youngest son)
Bottom-line truth. Ask Pat...oh wait - they blew his head off. “The most dangerous man to any government is the man who is able to think things out... without regard to the prevailing superstitions and taboos. Almost inevitably he comes to the conclusion that the government he lives under is dishonest, insane, intolerable.” ~ H. L. Mencken
Bottom-line truth. Ask Pat...oh wait - they blew his head off. There are a couple others I could think of - like Seal Team 6 and the phony Osama hit, and the Seal Team members that got whacked to try and prop up the story of the "brave female hero" in the Iraqi hospital. The only thing that saved her life was that she made a big public noise about NOT being the hero she was being painted as. After that it was the story that died. Collect your winnings. I hope that you bet the farm and all the mineral rights therein. “The most dangerous man to any government is the man who is able to think things out... without regard to the prevailing superstitions and taboos. Almost inevitably he comes to the conclusion that the government he lives under is dishonest, insane, intolerable.” ~ H. L. Mencken
"Two people can keep a secret, if one is dead." All of those thousands of people supposedly involved in 9-11..not one came clean out of guilt, or because he got drunk, or was on his deathbed, or got saved. Or best of all, because he was afraid someone was going to kill him to keep him quiet. The Truthers have no understanding of human nature. Women cannot tell you what they want because they do not consciously know what they want. Their desires can only be ascertained by their actions, not their assertions.
That it belonged to one of the so called hijackers would put the mathematical odds into the stratosphere.
Friend of mine crashed one, killed 27 people, crew and people in housing area. All he had was his flight suit, no shoes, socks were on. Month later while he was in hospital, along came his wallet and wristwatch, both in perfect condition. Shuttle over TX was best I recall. Burned up in atmosphere yet papers were found scattered over miles in perfect condition.
Perfect example... The most infamous conspiracy of all was Pearl Harbor, yet one week before the bombing, their newspapers carried headlines warning of it. Secrets are difficult to keep.
Deniers have no understanding of reality.
“The most dangerous man to any government is the man who is able to think things out... without regard to the prevailing superstitions and taboos. Almost inevitably he comes to the conclusion that the government he lives under is dishonest, insane, intolerable.” ~ H. L. Mencken
i couldn't agree more.
amen to that. i can barely contain my incredulity.
uh huh. the buildings and their contents were completely pulverized and you think that it's even remotely plausible that the hijacker's passport could be found in pristine condition atop the rubble? really? really, Cyni?
uh huh. like no false flag events in history have ever been executed by multi participants who've managed to get away with it, but because there are no public confessions, in your head, they never happened, huh? p.s. you are the only person i know of who claims to believe the Warren Commission Report on the Kennedy assassination.
Really Christine. Read what survived the shuttle burning and breakup over the Southwest. Individual sheets of paper scattered over the Southwest. I would have to review but it almost seems to me there were some human remains. It is NOT unusual at all as to what survives. I have witnessed two major aircraft crashes in the military,read hundreds of accident reports with the FAA, it is not unusual at all.
Christine... "Some Texas residents recovered some of the debris, ignoring the warnings, and attempted to sell it on the online auction site eBay, starting at $10,000. The auction was quickly removed, but auctions for.... Columbia merchandise such as programs, photographs and patches, went up dramatically in value immediately following the disaster, creating a surge of Columbia-related listings.......[26] A three-day amnesty offered for looted shuttle debris brought in hundreds of illegally recovered pieces.[27] There were approximately 40,000 recovered pieces of debris that were never identified. The largest pieces recovered include the front landing gear,[28] and a window frame." Many body parts were recovered, even a human heart. Even a video being taken before the explosion and burning, survived the re-entry. There were 78,000 pieces recovered and retained.
Have you ever witnessed an aircraft pulverize a steel and concrete building into DUST PARTICLES ??? (Let's not forget building 7 either). Makes little difference to me about the planes - I want to know who planted the fuckin bombs ! (Let's roll - hahahahaha - what a joke these asshats have made of Americans. Just tell those mullets whatever ... they'll buy it or discuss it until they pass out. Either way - they are incapable of doing anything about it). "In an unjust society, the only place for a just man is prison." Thoreau
Nope... Know nothing about that, except they had "help". Have witnessed two major aircraft accidents, exploded and burned, saw what was found scattered all over acres of ground. Wallet in perfect condition, the owner was not. Wallet was found long ways from the hole in the ground. No clue as to how his wrist watch came off his wrist and survived, still keeping time. Amazing things do happen in such events, it is NEITHER UNUSUAL NOR MYSTERIOUS. Placing some nefarious act on the survival of something is POSSIBLE but not unusual at all. Ask any FAA accident investigators, they will tell you of hundreds of such incidents. Once again, people are wasting their time on such absurdities while the perps are watching and laughing.
If you would, could you refrain from insulting posters who raise reasonable questions, and make logical though debatable assertions with respect to these events? The WTC attacks weren't some unlucky pilot's Twin Beech splattered across a cornfield. The buildings swallowed up the aluminum hulls and wings of the aircraft whole and the jet fuel on board ignited on impact. Satam Al Suqami was supposedly on Flight 11, the plane that hit the North Tower. In that collision, the building's core absorbed almost the entire airplane, which hit the northeast wall nearly dead center. A portion of the landing gear was all that was found at ground level after the crash. Yet a very key piece of paperwork miraculously finds its way to the pavement. It was Suqami's visa, and not Atta's passport that was found after the crash but before the collapse of the North Tower. Given the barrage of obfuscations and mountains of concealed evidence by those those who have custody of it, you'll pardon some of us if we express a reasonable measure of doubt in this case and allow us to conclude that we may once again be victims of another gov't/media bullshit operation. LOL! Talking about hanging a person from his own petard! The irony is thick enough to cut with a knife isn't it? Thank you for pointing out the hypocrisy, even if that wasn't your intention. Calling Ron Paul an isolationist is like calling your neighbor a hermit because he doesn't come over and break your window - unknown I WITHDRAW MY CONSENT! Fan... You take up with Salma and we can be friends. Sticking with a Rockefeller lackey is not good.
The works of Hayek and von Mises speak for themselves, although as a lifelong liberal bureaucrat, I can understand why you despise them. Calling Ron Paul an isolationist is like calling your neighbor a hermit because he doesn't come over and break your window - unknown I WITHDRAW MY CONSENT! What do you have against Salma????? At least she never took a paycheck from John D. Rockefeller. You post a photo of Salma and we will be friends for life.
They used to call it "hypocrisy," but the trendy phrase today is "cognitive dissonance." Cynicom is a lifelong government man and a military man who received the kind of obedience training that goes along with that sort of service. He also has bitter experience of the crap the rolls down hill and lands on the heads of those that operate in the lower echelons of such organizations. From his comments, I conclude that Cyni is also a patriot, and that he disbelieves the government cant and blather in the case of the 911 events as well as most of the premises that underpin mainstream propaganda relating to events in modern history. It's hard for some of us to shake our conditioning, particularly when we hate what we see. With some of us it just comes out in strange ways. This is the true story of 9/11: On the morning of September 11, 2001, 19 men armed with boxcutters directed by a man on dialysis in a cave fortress halfway around the world using a satellite phone and a laptop directed the most sophisticated penetration of the most heavily-defended airspace in the world, overpowering the passengers and the military combat-trained pilots on 4 commercial aircraft before flying those planes wildly off course for over an hour without being molested by a single fighter interceptor. These 19 hijackers, devout religious fundamentalists who liked to drink alcohol, snort cocaine, and live with pink-haired strippers, managed to knock down 3 buildings with 2 planes in New York, while in Washington a pilot who couldn't handle a single engine Cessna was able to fly a 757 in an 8,000 foot descending 270 degree corskscrew turn to come exactly level with the ground, hitting the Pentagon in the budget analyst office where DoD staffers were working on the mystery of the 2.3 trillion dollars that Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld had announced "missing" from the Pentagon's coffers in a press conference the day before, on September 10, 2001. Luckily, the news anchors knew who did it within minutes, the pundits knew within hours, the Administration knew within the day, and the evidence literally fell into the FBI's lap. But for some reason a bunch of crazy conspiracy theorists demanded an investigation into the greatest attack on American soil in history. The investigation was delayed, underfunded, set up to fail, a conflict of interest and a cover up from start to finish. It was based on testimony extracted through torture, the records of which were destroyed. It failed to mention the existence of WTC7, Able Danger, Ptech, Sibel Edmonds, OBL and the CIA, and the drills of hijacked aircraft being flown into buildings that were being simulated at the precise same time that those events were actually happening. It was lied to by the Pentagon, the CIA, the Bush Administration and as for Bush and Cheney...well, no one knows what they told it because they testified in secret, off the record, not under oath and behind closed doors. It didn't bother to look at who funded the attacks because that question is of "little practical significance". Still, the 9/11 Commission did brilliantly, answering all of the questions the public had (except most of the victims' family members' questions) and pinned blame on all the people responsible (although no one so much as lost their job), determining the attacks were "a failure of imagination" because "I don't think anyone could envision flying airplanes into buildings " except the Pentagon and FEMA and NORAD and the NRO. The DIA destroyed 2.5 TB of data on Able Danger, but that's OK because it probably wasn't important. The SEC destroyed their records on the investigation into the insider trading before the attacks, but that's OK because destroying the records of the largest investigation in SEC history is just part of routine record keeping. NIST has classified the data that they used for their model of WTC7s collapse, but that's OK because knowing how they made their model of that collapse would "jeopardize public safety". The FBI has argued that all material related to their investigation of 9/11 should be kept secret from the public, but that's OK because the FBI probably has nothing to hide. This man never existed, nor is anything he had to say worthy of your attention, and if you say otherwise you are a paranoid conspiracy theorist and deserve to be shunned by all of humanity. Likewise him, him, him, and her. (and her and her and him). Osama Bin Laden lived in a cave fortress in the hills of Afghanistan, but somehow got away. Then he was hiding out in Tora Bora but somehow got away. Then he lived in Abottabad for years, taunting the most comprehensive intelligence dragnet employing the most sophisticated technology in the history of the world for 10 years, releasing video after video with complete impunity (and getting younger and younger as he did so), before finally being found in a daring SEAL team raid which wasn't recorded on video, in which he didn't resist or use his wife as a human shield, and in which these crack special forces operatives panicked and killed this unarmed man, supposedly the best source of intelligence about those dastardly terrorists on the planet. Then they dumped his body in the ocean before telling anyone about it. Then a couple dozen of that team's members died in a helicopter crash in Afghanistan. This is the story of 9/11, brought to you by the media which told you the hard truths about JFK and incubator babies and mobile production facilities and the rescue of Jessica Lynch. If you have any questions about this story...you are a batshit, paranoid, tinfoil, dog-abusing baby-hater and will be reviled by everyone. If you love your country and/or freedom, happiness, rainbows, rock and roll, puppy dogs, apple pie and your grandma, you will never ever express doubts about any part of this story to anyone. Ever. This has been a public service announcement by: the Friends of the FBI, CIA, NSA, DIA, SEC, MSM, White House, NIST, and the 9/11 Commission. Because Ignorance is Strength.
You spent a lifetime taking a paycheck from people employed by the Rockefeller's. The difference is you spent a lifetime doing their bidding while von Mises and Hayek did not. Once again though, I completely understand why a lifelong liberal bureaucrat such as yourself would despise the two people considered by most to be the most important figures in the 20th century in the field of Austrian economics and classical liberalism. LOL! Calling Ron Paul an isolationist is like calling your neighbor a hermit because he doesn't come over and break your window - unknown I WITHDRAW MY CONSENT! Oh, that was one "mystery" quickly and easily explained by those "in charge." It was the Magickal Jet Fuel! I am so glad they only made enough of that for the events of 9/11--just think of the horrendous damage a million gallons of that could do, oh the humanity!!! Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. Lord Acton The human herd stampedes on the fields of facts and the valleys of truth to get to the desert of ignorance. Saman Mohammadi "If a politician found he had cannibals among his constituents, he would promise them missionaries for dinner." Mencken "..if the military is going to defend our freedoms, then we need freedoms to defend. Our freedoms must be restored before the military can defend them..." Lawrence M. Vance Você me trata desse jeito só porque eu sou preto. Junior (my youngest son)
All he had was his flight suit, no shoes, socks were on. Month later while he was in hospital, along came his wallet and wristwatch, both in perfect condition. Shuttle over TX was best I recall. Burned up in atmosphere yet papers were found scattered over miles in perfect condition. The difference between your story and 9-11, is that the plane that went into the tower was far larger, it contained more than 27 people, yet the passport, the only passport found, was discovered after a 110 floor tower collapsed. In a crime scene where countless bodies weren't found, this a highly improbable occurance IMO.
Thank you, christine. Seldom has a greater service been rendered to John Q. Public. He now has the facts and can carry on a dinner conversation about 9/11 without embarassing himself and getting himself banned from future Thanksgiving get togethers. Now everybody, roll over and go back to sleep. Would I be wrong in assuming that the original article has hot links in it? If so, would you happen to have the link? I want to send this out on my e-mail list but it really needs the links to go with it.
Calling Ron Paul an isolationist is like calling your neighbor a hermit because he doesn't come over and break your window - unknown I WITHDRAW MY CONSENT! Figuring odds, you are correct. Highly improbable but possible, as too many accidents and incidents have shown over many years. My first crash, there was a round hole in the ground, no wings, no fuselage. Out of the hole they took four engines, the landing gear, small piece of vertical stabilizer, assorted pieces of scrap. It was all hauled away on a flatbed truck. My first day in the squadron.
You spent a lifetime taking a paycheck from people employed by the Rockefeller's I took my paycheck, PAID FOR BY PEOPLE THAT SHOULD REFUSE TO PAY TAXES INTO THIS CRIMINAL GOVERNMENT. Why do they not refuse????? Fear, young man, abject fear, we talk big and pay our taxes but fear the prison. We fund this government, legitimize every two years, yet we demand OTHERS DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT. Everyone is a coward, all they have to do is step forward, refuse all taxes, become a martyr and go to prison. Not too many of 4um denizens espouse their willingness to lead the pack. Up on a soapbox, ranting at all, pointing fingers, in total hiding of course, not a single person of that stripe has offered up his body to lead the charge. Odd. Odd. Talkers, finger pointers and all scared to death of the knock on the door.
I see. Blame others for your own shortcomings. What you just wrote is typical "it's not the criminals fault he raped and murdered that child, it's society's fault!" liberal bilge. How pitiful. So it's the fault of everyone else that you didn't have the courage or the will to detach yourself from the tit of the government you claim to despise so much. If only "we the people" would have taken away the money that funded your paycheck! Wow. Really? Funny thing. When I woke up and smelled the coffee I gave up a 15 year career and a lifelong retirement check because I no longer believed in what I was doing and did not want to be associated with it any longer. Does that make me better than you? Nope, not at all. But it does allow me to see through the "I'm a wise old man who knows better than you" charade you bandy about on this site. The rest of your rant is nothing but obfuscation. Calling Ron Paul an isolationist is like calling your neighbor a hermit because he doesn't come over and break your window - unknown I WITHDRAW MY CONSENT! it's in Roger Mason's October rant here:
OOPS!....wrong thread. Disregard. Calling Ron Paul an isolationist is like calling your neighbor a hermit because he doesn't come over and break your window - unknown I WITHDRAW MY CONSENT! Thank you.
Calling Ron Paul an isolationist is like calling your neighbor a hermit because he doesn't come over and break your window - unknown I WITHDRAW MY CONSENT! truth
what site is that?
Nice one C. I somehow got my threads mixed up. That comment was meant for another thread. The site I was talking about is the American Conservative. Sorry for the confusion. Calling Ron Paul an isolationist is like calling your neighbor a hermit because he doesn't come over and break your window - unknown I WITHDRAW MY CONSENT!I agree. Shows how people can twist themselves up into all kinds of knots to accept the government's clearly insane conspiracy theory.
#38. To: Original_Intent (#37)
#39. To: Original_Intent (#35)
I think we should ask Pat Tillman about that.
#40. To: Lod (#39)
I think we should ask Pat Tillman about that.
#41. To: Cynicom (#36)
Being an odds maker, I would give odds the government via some agency, WAS INVOLVED FROM DAY ONE.
#42. To: Cynicom (#36)
One person, you have a secret, two people, if it becomes known, both know who did it.
#43. To: Cynicom (#36)
Example, people make much of a wallet or passport or something being found. Nothing mysterious at all about that. It happens all the time in major crashes.
#44. To: Jethro Tull (#43)
That it belonged to one of the so called hijackers would put the mathematical odds into the stratosphere.
#45. To: Turtle (#42)
#46. To: Turtle, Cynicom, 4 (#42)
#47. To: Original_Intent (#29)
This is a classic and should be put up every now and then just to remind people just how outrageously stupid the Gubbermunt's Official Conspiracy Theory is.
#48. To: Lod (#46)
Deniers have no understanding of reality.
#49. To: Cynicom (#36)
Example, people make much of a wallet or passport or something being found. Nothing mysterious at all about that. It happens all the time in major crashes.
#50. To: Turtle (#42)
#51. To: christine (#49)
really, Cyni?
#52. To: christine (#49)
#53. To: Cynicom, christine, 4 (#51)
#54. To: noone222 (#53)
Have you ever witnessed an aircraft pulverize a steel and concrete building into DUST PARTICLES ??? (Let's not forget building 7 either).
#55. To: Cynicom (#54)
(Edited)
Once again, people are wasting their time on such absurdities
#56. To: randge, Cynicom (#55)
If you would, could you refrain from insulting posters who raise reasonable questions, and make logical though debatable assertions with respect to these events?
Any perceived compliance with unconstitutional “laws” or orders put forth by government employees is NOT recognition of their authority; it is simply the result of carefully calculated submission to an entity exhibiting superior firepower.
#57. To: F.A. Hayek Fan (#56)
#58. To: Cynicom (#57)
Sticking with a Rockefeller lackey is not good.
Any perceived compliance with unconstitutional “laws” or orders put forth by government employees is NOT recognition of their authority; it is simply the result of carefully calculated submission to an entity exhibiting superior firepower.
#59. To: F.A. Hayek Fan (#58)
I can understand why you despise them.
#60. To: F.A. Hayek Fan, Cynicom (#56)
#61. To: Turtle, This is the true story of 911 (#60)
#62. To: Cynicom (#59)
At least she never took a paycheck from John D. Rockefeller.
Any perceived compliance with unconstitutional “laws” or orders put forth by government employees is NOT recognition of their authority; it is simply the result of carefully calculated submission to an entity exhibiting superior firepower.
#63. To: christine (#61)
NIST has classified the data that they used for their model of WTC7s collapse, but that's OK because knowing how they made their model of that collapse would "jeopardize public safety".
#64. To: Cynicom (#44)
Friend of mine crashed one, killed 27 people, crew and people in housing area.
#65. To: christine (#61)
This is the true story of 9/11
#66. To: christine (#61)
Any perceived compliance with unconstitutional “laws” or orders put forth by government employees is NOT recognition of their authority; it is simply the result of carefully calculated submission to an entity exhibiting superior firepower.
#67. To: Jethro Tull (#64)
In a crime scene where countless bodies weren't found, this a highly improbable occurance IMO.
#68. To: F.A. Hayek Fan (#62)
At least she never took a paycheck from John D. Rockefeller.
#69. To: Cynicom (#68)
(Edited)
I took my paycheck, PAID FOR BY PEOPLE THAT SHOULD REFUSE TO PAY TAXES INTO THIS CRIMINAL GOVERNMENT.
Any perceived compliance with unconstitutional “laws” or orders put forth by government employees is NOT recognition of their authority; it is simply the result of carefully calculated submission to an entity exhibiting superior firepower.
#70. To: F.A. Hayek Fan (#62)
#71. To: All (#69)
(Edited)
Interesting. I just checked the site and they removed my comments. I thought my short paragraph was rather tame to be honest.
Any perceived compliance with unconstitutional “laws” or orders put forth by government employees is NOT recognition of their authority; it is simply the result of carefully calculated submission to an entity exhibiting superior firepower.
#72. To: christine (#70)
Any perceived compliance with unconstitutional “laws” or orders put forth by government employees is NOT recognition of their authority; it is simply the result of carefully calculated submission to an entity exhibiting superior firepower.
#73. To: noone222 (#53)
Either way - they are incapable of doing anything about it).
#74. To: F.A. Hayek Fan (#71)
#75. To: christine (#61)
This has been a public service announcement by: the Friends of the FBI, CIA, NSA, DIA, SEC, MSM, White House, NIST, and the 9/11 Commission. Because Ignorance is Strength.
"Satan / Cheney in "08" 
#76. To: christine (#74)
what site is that?
Any perceived compliance with unconstitutional “laws” or orders put forth by government employees is NOT recognition of their authority; it is simply the result of carefully calculated submission to an entity exhibiting superior firepower.
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