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Title: 13 States Now Considering Gold and Silver as Money
Source: [None]
URL Source: http://fromthetrenchesworldreport.c ... old-and-silver-as-money/22392/
Published: Oct 2, 2012
Author: FromTheTrenchesWorldReport
Post Date: 2012-10-02 10:41:08 by christine
Keywords: None
Views: 173
Comments: 10

13 States Now Considering Gold and Silver as Money:When the governor of Utah signed a bill that made gold bullion and silver bullion legal tender in the state last March, he had no idea of the groundswell he was going to start.

The Utah Sound Money Act outright flies in the face of the fiat money system, which is the printed money used today; backed by nothing but the promises of politicians…

… It is not practical for people to carry around heavy gold bullion or silver bullion coins, so the Utah Gold & Silver Depository was created. People can deposit their gold bullion and silver bullion coins there and receive a debit card to make transactions with—just like depositing money at a bank. The prices of gold bullion and silver bullion are based on the closing prices of both precious metals in U.S. dollars in London on each business day, creating the exchange rate used on the debit card.

Missouri and South Carolina in 2012 are the closest to enacting very similar legislation and creating a gold bullion and silver bullion depository, just like Utah. (Source: CNN Money, February 3, 2012.)…

… Other states considering legislation to make gold bullion and silver bullion legal tender are Montana, Colorado, Idaho, Indiana, New Hampshire, Georgia, Washington, Minnesota, Tennessee, and Virginia…

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#1. To: christine (#0) (Edited)

Checking the Utah proposal, it was very cautious; bullion would be accepted as money WHEN/IF federal authority made it acceptable.

As a matter of fact, the Constitution speaks to this and says that bullion is not usable as legal tender. Under the US Constitution, Art. I, sec. 8, clause 5, only the federal govt can "coin money, regulate the value thereofm and of foreign coin"; states, under Art. I, sec. 10, clause 1, are forbidden to coin money or make anything but "gold and silver coin" a tender of payment (meaning, in addition to whatever currency the federal govt issues). States are limited to using coins but cannot make coins themselves, therefore the only coins they can use, to supplement the federally issued currency, are foreign coins - whose value is set by the Congress. This eliminates bullion as a legal tender.

It is very unlikely that the US will ever return to using gold/silver coins, simply because the Constitution says that Congress set the value of US currency, and specie coins (=precious metal coins) would necessarily be valued according to the market price of the metal rather than the Congressional designation.

Shoonra  posted on  2012-10-02   13:12:25 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

states, under Art. I, sec. 10, clause 1, are forbidden to coin money or make anything but "gold and silver coin" a tender of payment (meaning, in addition to whatever currency the federal govt issues).

I don't recall anywhere in the Constitution the Fed gov being granted authority to issue any money it wishes.

States are limited to using coins but cannot make coins themselves, therefore the only coins they can use, to supplement the federally issued currency, are foreign coins - whose value is set by the Congress. This eliminates bullion as a legal tender.

The Fed gov DOES issue legal tender gold bullion coins. They are called Eagles. Gold eagles have a face value of $50, platinum coins have $100 face value. Silvers, $1. That the content of these coins exceeds face value is of no legal significance, and the contents of pennies and nickels, at last check, also exceeded their face value.

It is very unlikely that the US will ever return to using gold/silver coins, simply because the Constitution says that Congress set the value of US currency, and specie coins (=precious metal coins) would necessarily be valued according to the market price of the metal rather than the Congressional designation.

Not true. If Congress declared 1 gram of gold to be $1000, that would *BE* the market price. The market would no longer control the "price" of gold. The market would instead control how much gold everything else is worth.

But that's all academic, as congress will never willingly return to a standard that would instantly crimp it's ability to spend willy-nilly. It's far preferable for the fiat currency in use to hyperinflate into oblivion as is the usual end for all fiat currencies. Furthermore, since these days the US Constitution is worth little more than it's weight in used toilet paper, discussion of Constitutional limits is a waste of time.

Ergo, as a matter of practicality, Utah is pretty much free to do anything it wants.

Pinguinite  posted on  2012-10-02   19:03:37 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

Article I, section 8, clause 5, gives Congress the authority to "coin money and regulate the value thereof". This suggests not only the use of precious metals but the use of less valuable material, such as paper or copper, because of Congress's ability to regulate a value for it. Your suggestion that Congress could set the value of gold at higher (much higher) than current market price would work - and would be ruinous - but it wouldn't work if Congress tried to set a value at below the market price of the metallic ingredient.

Shoonra  posted on  2012-10-02   19:17:27 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

This suggests not only the use of precious metals but the use of less valuable material, such as paper or copper, because of Congress's ability to regulate a value for it.

Paper coins? Do tell...

echo5sierra  posted on  2012-10-02   20:59:55 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

Paper coins? Do tell...

What effect would paper coins have on interstate commerce?

What would Geddy Lee do?

"I am not one of those weak-spirited, sappy Americans who want to be liked by all the people around them. I don’t care if people hate my guts; I assume most of them do. The important question is whether they are in a position to do anything about it." - William S Burroughs

Dakmar  posted on  2012-10-02   21:08:45 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

Article I, section 8, clause 5, gives Congress the authority to "coin money and regulate the value thereof". This suggests not only the use of precious metals but the use of less valuable material, such as paper or copper, because of Congress's ability to regulate a value for it.

It "suggests", you say? The whole purpose of this clause is to standardize the measure of value between the states. Prior to the Constitution under the Articles of Confederation, each state printed its own money, and the conflicting value between Virginia and Maryland currency made trade difficult. By granting a central authority the power to "coin money and regulate the value thereof", this clause purpose of standardizing a measure of value among the states was complete. In no way was this clause supposed to grant the fed gov the ability or power to dictate how much various goods and services should cost. It merely allowed Congress the power to define a "dollar" as a certain amount of gold and/or silver, which Congress did and which is still on the books, in fact. That's what "regulate the value thereof" means.

Your suggestion that Congress could set the value of gold at higher (much higher) than current market price would work - and would be ruinous - but it wouldn't work if Congress tried to set a value at below the market price of the metallic ingredient.

If the dollar price was set by dividing the amount of dollars in circulation by all the gold ever mined, much less the amount of gold the gov holds, I think $1000/gram is probably far lower than what gold would need to be priced at. No, Congress couldn't make gold very cheap or it would mean instant bankruptcy for the US gov. That's why Congress only ever raises it, such as they did under FDR.

Pinguinite  posted on  2012-10-02   22:09:28 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

Rothschild's involvement in the Civil War

Itistoolate  posted on  2012-10-02   22:19:59 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

But if gold drops in value to a few hundred dollars an oz because of fake bars or other forms of manipulative crookedness or because of higher-yielding investments like real estate or other investments.. There aren't that many practical commercial applications for gold.

Tatarewicz  posted on  2012-10-03   0:02:46 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

This eliminates bullion as a legal tender.

Not true.

The reason why gold and silver were the only lawful money to be used in exchange for trading in goods and services is that in using bills of credit, it not only puts the states and country in debt but also the citizenry. The other reason was to prevent parties from entering into treaties with foreign banks and the Queen of England. What the U.S. has actually done is emit bills of credit for the purpose of crediting debtors to be bonded to the creditors from infancy to death. This is called slavery but it is also intentional fraud because it forces everyone from infancy to death into assuming the role of paying the continuing debt created by others supposedly protected by the FDIC and Full Faith and Credit Clause per Article IV which also conflicts with the Thirteenth Amendment and Sixteenth Amendments to the Constitution.

It is no wonder that the following may be said here: Gold is the money of kings; Silver is the money of gentlemen; barter is the money of peasants, but Debt is the money of slaves.---— Norm Franz

Article 1 Section 10 reads in part the following:

No State shall enter into any Treaty, Alliance, or Confederation; grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal; coin Money; emit Bills of Credit; make any Thing but gold and silver Coin a Tender in Payment of Debts; pass any Bill of Attainder, ex post facto Law, or Law impairing the Obligation of Contracts, or grant any Title of Nobility... [Emphasis Added]

purplerose  posted on  2012-10-03   1:34:00 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

for the purpose of [sic]crediting debtors to be bonded...

Correction here: Should actually read as creating debtors to be bonded...

purplerose  posted on  2012-10-03   14:34:19 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

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