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Title: The First Presidential Debate: A Choice or an Echo?
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URL Source: http://www.theamericanconservative. ... al-debate-a-choice-or-an-echo/
Published: Oct 4, 2012
Author: NOAH MILLMAN
Post Date: 2012-10-04 06:00:52 by Ada
Keywords: None
Views: 391
Comments: 25
I tried to live-blog this thing, but just didn’t have the energy. So here is my strongest impression of the debate overall: Mitt Romney wants the audience to believe that he and Barack Obama disagree profoundly on fundamental philosophy, but disagree only very marginally about policy. Over and over again, Mitt Romney would attack the President on general principles, then the President would say, in so many words, “well, the implications of that view are” and start listing policy implications, and Romney would retort: no, I don’t believe any of that, in fact that stuff you say I oppose is stuff I agree with, and that stuff you say I support is stuff I absolutely will not do. On the budget, Romney praised Bowles-Simpson, which called for a substantial net increase in revenue, suggesting his own plan was a variation on that theme, and denied he would cut spending in any specific area that Obama highlighted as a possibility that he might cut – the only spending he talked about was spending he promised to increase: increases on defense, restoring cuts to Medicare, etc. On health care, he repeatedly talked up his reform in Massachusetts, and when asked how it was distinguished from Obamacare, said it was a state-level plan that was enacted on a bi-partisan basis – an entirely process-related answer. Any time Obama talked about anything popular in Obamacare – like the way it handles pre-existing conditions – Romney said, effectively: don’t worry, I’ve got that covered in my plan as well. On Wall Street regulation, Romney was at pains to reassure that he believed in regulation, and that there were plenty of sensible things in Dodd-Frank, and the one line that he called out as being a problem was the “too big to fail” designation (without explaining what that was, or how it was related to the regulation as a whole, or how he’d deal with the actual problem of too-big-to- fail). On education, Romney was eager to say that Secretary Duncan had good ideas that he agreed with and would build on, and that he would not roll back the Federal role (but would use Federal leverage to promote school choice). Even on taxes, the clearest point of contrast, Romney denied he intended to reduce the tax burden on the wealthy, denied he would increase taxes on the middle class, and denied he would increase the deficit. His tax cut was reduced to a “goal” of reducing rates and broadening the base, which would come out of a process that would involve both parties. And on it went in that vein. The President was plainly frustrated by this approach, and his frustration showed. If, as they say, you watched it without sound – or, even better, if you didn’t speak English, so you could hear the sound but couldn’t understand the words – I have to believe Romney won by a mile. But if you didn’t watch the debate, and read the transcript, what you’d see is the following. When Romney attacked, Obama generally had a policy response – some more persuasive than others, but the response was generally policy-related. When Obama attacked, Romney would generally deny that he took the position that was being attacked. Romney’s palpable zest for the debate made him look like a guy ready to take charge, and the President’s demeanor suggested some willingness to let him do so. But his refusal to stand his ground on anything – and the marked contrast with the President in that regard – made him sound like a snake-oil salesman. I guess it’s clear how the combination played for me. How it played for a low- information voter, I don’t know.
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#1. To: Ada (#0)
Really????? Anyone with a suspicious mind might misconstrue that and believe the two were representative of the same "party".
That wasn't a debate so much as Mitt Romney just took Obama for a cross country drive strapped to the roof of his car. “The most dangerous man to any government is the man who is able to think things out... without regard to the prevailing superstitions and taboos. Almost inevitably he comes to the conclusion that the government he lives under is dishonest, insane, intolerable.” ~ H. L. Mencken Sir Lod... The most deplorable part of this charade is, no matter who "wins", the war will go on, and America continues to lose.
Anyone with a suspicious mind might misconstrue that and believe the two were representative of the same "party". I think you both are correct. Obummer just does't have the belly for it any more, it seems. So the choice is: 1. Evil and incompetent. 0r 2. Evil and competent. Whoopie !!!!!
That's what it looked like to me. I wouldn't have endured this if it weren't for my better half who wanted to see O'Bummer spanked, and she got her wish. What was deadly was his looking at the ground and nodding as the other guy laid into his record. It looked like he was conceding that ground. He was unable to look at the contender for most of it while Romney spent much of his time directing his comments to his opponent shoveling it on hard and fast. This thing is still the incumbent's to lose. He has had a consistent edge with the numbers, but I get the distinct impression that he don't want it no mo'. How'd you like to live with Michelle the rest of you life after walking away from that? And yet if one peruses the various "conservative" political forums you would think that Romney was Reagan reincarnated. The Republicans have the technique of out-Democrating the Democrats down to a tee and their voters eat it up like the leftist scum they are. That Jew whore Goldi-lox was cheering Romney for attacking Obama on cutting Medicare. Prior to baby Bush and his band of lefty Republicans, cutting Medicare was a staple of the Republican Party. Calling Ron Paul an isolationist is like calling your neighbor a hermit because he doesn't come over and break your window - unknown I WITHDRAW MY CONSENT! I think that Reagan has replaced Abraham Lincoln as an icon in the pubbie pantheon. They're going to spend the next five weeks attempting to resurrect his ghost. It's gonna be gruesome. which in fact means they were both traveling to the same destination. Dragging him behind would have been racist. "Mr. Prime Minister, there is only one important question facing us, and that is the question whether the white race will survive." -- Leonid Brezhnev to James Callahan
When Obama first ran, he didn't think it was a charade. Now he knows it is. "Mr. Prime Minister, there is only one important question facing us, and that is the question whether the white race will survive." -- Leonid Brezhnev to James Callahan
Well that's certainly disturbing. And I don't disagree with your analysis. Just how far from the Founding Fathers can Republicans go and still crow about being patriotic conservatives?? So here is my strongest impression of the debate overall: Mitt Romney wants the audience to believe that he and Barack Obama disagree profoundly on fundamental philosophy, but disagree only very marginally about policy.
#2. To: Ada, Cynicom, 4 (#0)
email comment -
#3. To: Lod (#2)
#4. To: Cynicom, Lod (#2)
That wasn't a debate so much as Mitt Romney just took Obama for a cross country drive strapped to the roof of his car.
#5. To: Lysander_Spooner (#4)
Obummer just does't have the belly for it any more, it seems.
#6. To: Ada (#0)
Any perceived compliance with unconstitutional “laws” or orders put forth by government employees is NOT recognition of their authority; it is simply the result of carefully calculated submission to an entity exhibiting superior firepower.
#7. To: F.A. Hayek Fan (#6)
you would think that Romney was Reagan reincarnated.
#8. To: Lod (#2)
That wasn't a debate so much as Mitt Romney just took Obama for a cross country drive strapped to the roof of his car.
If either Moromney or Mammyjammyobammy win the November (s)election peoples with common sense will pray that December 21 2012 will indeed be the end of the world!
#9. To: Lod (#2)
That wasn't a debate so much as Mitt Romney just took Obama for a cross country drive strapped to the roof of his car.
#10. To: Ada (#0)
#11. To: randge (#7)
I think that Reagan has replaced Abraham Lincoln as an icon in the pubbie pantheon.
-Alex Kurtagic
#12. To: Lod, 4 (#2)
That's a funny line :) I for one am delighted the Kenyan got his extra large ears boxed in. The shine has worn off the dark and I'm ready for a white empty suit. This black one has an ugly wife and a mother-in-law who looks like James Brown on a bender. That wasn't a debate so much as Mitt Romney just took Obama for a cross country drive strapped to the roof of his car.
#13. To: Jethro Tull (#12)
U-GOT-THAT-RIGHT This black one has an ugly wife
"In an unjust society, the only place for a just man is prison."
Thoreau
#14. To: All (#12)
For 1,000 points, and control of the board, please ID the real Mrs Robinson.
#15. To: noone222 (#13)
That would be a photo of an angry Boonis Africanis or what we called a gooorilla in Harlem.
#16. To: Jethro Tull (#12)
That's a funny line :) I got a chuckle out of that too, and I think that Lame Jim Lehrer was in the doggie bin along for the ride with him. From what I saw last night Lehrer got his ass handed to him also. One of the most objectionable things in all these debates is the predictably intrusive and ham-handed "moderation" of the discussion by the same network/pbs retreads that are inserted in these events by God-knows-whom. It's the main reason that I can't sit through a whole debate without switching it off or leaving the wife to watch the rest of the thing by herself. That wasn't a debate so much as Mitt Romney just took Obama for a cross country drive strapped to the roof of his car.
#17. To: Jethro Tull (#15)
Michelle is built like a bowling pin ! 
"In an unjust society, the only place for a just man is prison."
Thoreau
#18. To: noone222 (#17)
That is freakin' funny :)
#19. To: randge (#16)
Agree, and he also forgot to apply his Polident. I definitely saw his dentures slip and I thought I heard a few faint whistles. I think that Lame Jim Lehrer was in the doggie bin along for the ride with him. From what I saw last night Lehrer got his ass handed to him also
#20. To: Jethro Tull (#19)
HUFFPO today: Jim Lehrer Debate Moderating Performance Savaged "I'm not going to say I've done a poor job..." That was Jim Lehrer's assessment of his performance as the moderator of the first presidential debate of the 2012 election. Sadly for him, many disagreed. It was Lehrer's 12th time moderating, but he was largely unsuccessful in his attempts to corral the candidates. Both President Obama and Mitt Romney rolled right over him as, with increasing plaintiveness, he tried to get them to stop talking. "No, no, no," he said to Romney at one point. Romney didn't listen. By the end of the debate, Obama and Romney had taken so much free time that Lehrer had to inform them that they would not get to one of the 15-minute segments he had intended to moderate. The reviews on Twitter were scathing. Conservative columnist John Podhoretz called Lehrer possibly "the worst moderator in the history of moderation." Even the normally mild-mannered Al Roker took a shot at Lehrer. "I hope Jim Lehrer gets the license plate of the truck that drove over him in this debate," he tweeted.
The Huffington Post | By Jack Mirkinson Posted: 10/03/2012 10:23 pm EDT
Updated: 10/04/2012 2:11 pm EDT
#21. To: randge (#20)
John Podhoretz is NOT a conservative. He is a far-left Republican neocon. Conservative columnist John Podhoretz
Calling Ron Paul an isolationist is like calling your neighbor a hermit because he doesn't come over and break your window - unknown
I WITHDRAW MY CONSENT!
Any perceived compliance with unconstitutional “laws” or orders put forth by government employees is NOT recognition of their authority; it is simply the result of carefully calculated submission to an entity exhibiting superior firepower.
#22. To: Lysander_Spooner (#4)
1. Evil and incompetent. 0r 2. Evil and competent. From williambanzai7 @ ZH: Obamney 1So the choice is:
Obamney 0
Voters Fucked
Mike Flaherty: Yeah, it's been there a long time. I wish I knew which corner.
My Man Godfrey (1936)
#23. To: noone222 (#17)
Way to go, Doug. You just offended every bowler in the world in seven words. Michelle is built like a bowling pin !
Mike Flaherty: Yeah, it's been there a long time. I wish I knew which corner.
My Man Godfrey (1936)
#24. To: F.A. Hayek Fan (#6)
In an essay called "A Strategy for the Right" Murray Rothbard first quotes Garret Garret: "There are those who still think they are holding a pass against a revolution that may be coming up the road. But they are gazing in the wrong direction. The revolution is behind them. It went by in the night of depression, singing songs to freedom." Then he continues paragraphs later with a sentiment similar to yours: "The left-liberal vision, then, of good conservatives is as follows: first, left -liberals, in power, make a Great Leap Forward toward collectivism; then, when, in the course of the political cycle, four or eight years later, conservatives come to power, they of course are horrified at the very idea of repealing anything; they simply slow down the rate of growth of statism, consolidating the previous gains of the Left, and providing a bit or R&R for the next liberal Great Leap Forward. And, if you think about it, you will see that this is precisely what every Republican administration has done since the new deal. Conservatives have readily played the desired Santa Claus role in the liberal vision of history." There was a time the Republicans campaigned to eliminate the Department of Education. No longer. The want to repeal and replace Obamacare. Romney even warned that even though he might lower tax rates your tax bill might not go down! He'll eliminate lots of deductions and your bill will likely increase even in the face of a rate decrease. Why change the tax code then if it is to bring in the same plunder from the masses? And these candidates are supposed to be different? When confronted with the choice of voting for Hitler or Stalin and trying to figure out who is less evil, would the obvious proper question be "why in the hell are these my only choices?"
Rivers of blood were spilled out over land that, in normal times, not even the poorest Arab would have worried his head over." Field Marshal Erwin Rommel
#25. To: F.A. Hayek Fan (#21)
I knew that I was taking a risk posting from HUFFPO. To them, anyone to left of Chris "Tinkles" Matthews who calls himself a "conservative columnist" is worthy of the moniker. To me they are all swine. John Podhoretz is NOT a conservative. He is a far-left Republican neocon.
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