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Title: NO PLANER COINTELPRO Operation Becoming Transparent
Source:
Prison Planet Forum
URL Source: http://forum.prisonplanet.com/index.php?topic=945.50;wap2
Published: Aug 1, 2008
Author: Morgan Rose
Post Date: 2012-10-06 10:54:21 by FormerLurker
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Keywords: None
Views: 19907
Comments: 309
COINTELPRO, an acronym for Counter Intelligence Program, was a series of covert operations conducted by the FBI starting in the mid 50’s and continuing until 1976 when it was exposed by the investigations The Church Committee. One of the primary methods of COINTELPRO consisted of forging pseudo-movement groups as a means of conducting Psychological Warfare operations to spread disinformation, disrupt, and divide existing movements. These ‘psy-ops’ tended to foment suspicions among the targeted movements and try to dissuade sympathies from people outside the targeted movement. Today, COINTELPRO has reared its ugly head again, with infiltrations popping up everywhere from Anti-War activism groups to peaceful gun owners and militias. Provocations have become more and more conspicuous to the public as the Seattle World Trade Organization protests and Ontario Security and Prosperity Partnership protests successfully exposed provocateur operations. Of course, something as dangerous to the establishment *body politic* as 9/11 has not been without its alleged incidents of COINTELPRO action. Allegations of government disinformation have been swirling around certain figures in the movement, such as former Bush Administration official Morgan Reynolds, who has recently proposed that “no planes hit the World Trade Center”, has alleged “TV Fakery”, and submitted that the towers were brought down by “Directed Energy Weapons” a.k.a. “Laser Beams”. While the government has spent innumerable resources trying to contradict eyewitness statements regarding reported explosions in the towers, Morgan Reynolds and his “mockingbirds” expect the 9/11 truth movement to put their energy into further contradicting even more numerous eyewitness statements . See a problem here? Typical of the above outlined methods, “No Planers” have become a pseudo-movement, adding lunacy, deception, and division to the legitimate questions emanating from 9/11 families, first responders, government officials, intelligence experts, scientists, engineers, architects, academics, entertainment personalities, and so many others. Perhaps the more visible purveyors of this pseudo-movement are supported by Paula Gloria’s “Concordia Foundation”. The “Concordia Foundation” claims 501 (c) 3, or “nonprofit” status, However, recent investigations conducted by concerned donors have uncovered that her “foundation” does not retain “nonprofit” status with the IRS. In fact, more rigorous inquires have obtained that no records of the “Concordia Foundation” even exist in its home state of New York. Funding of Paula Gloria’s “foundation” originates solely from an information technology firm, Bit By Bit Computer Consultants. “Donations” to the “Concordia Foundation” are actually billed directly to Bit By Bit. The apparent fraud has appropriately prompted multiple complaints with the FTC and IRS. Bit By Bit, and its subsidiary 3BDigital, admittedly list among their portfolio Bloomberg LLC, Chase Bank, The National Football League, Citigroup, and The National Security Council. 3BDigital boasts to have partnerships with Nokia, Cisco Systems, IBM, Compaq, Microsoft, Goldman Sachs, and Level (3) Communications. Level (3) Communications, a defense contractor doing business, primarily, with US and UK interests, is the developer of the WESCAM system said to be the delivery mechanism for the supposed “TV Fakery”. Of course this is nonsense, but it is fascinating that these harlequins would incorporate their partnerships into their own theories. The “Concordia Foundation” numbers among its surrogates Nico Haupt,” a man who exhibits *prima facie *schizophrenic behavior. Allegations of COINTELPRO surrounding Haupt have, in the past, seemed to be justified. WeAreChange recently had two unprovoked incidents with Haupt, where he assaulted the groups members, only to be ignored by onlooking NYPD. Haupt continuously spreads disinformation, even abject lies, surrounding the 9/11 truth movement. From calling legitimate 9/11 truthers “Plane Huggers”, to claiming “Alex Jones works for ABC” and is “covering up for the media”, Haupt’s tactics and behavior exhibit classic COINTELPRO methods. Haupt even advocates “waterboarding Plane Huggers”. So a “foundation” with intimate ties to international defense contractors, major Wall Street banks, prominent telecommunications firms, and The National Security council is a driving force behind the “No Plane” pseudo-movement? The information promulgated by Paula Gloria, Nico Haupt, Morgan Reynolds, and others is clearly suspect in light of these new revelations. Whereas, before, all of the speculation regarding “No Plane” theories were simply diffused by logic and common sense, now we see that something much more sinister is at play. The divide and conquer tactics employed by these clowns has warranted past allegations of COINTELPRO. Today, the charade has been fully exposed: the pyschological warfare, the subliminals, the allegations of ‘cover-up’ within the movement, the show on the Howard Stern Channel. Although these revelations should prompt further investigation, it certainly begs the question: does it get any more transparent?
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#72. To: RickyJ (#71)
What are you doing on every one of these threads then? You think planes make clouds too. No. Please. Let's see the independent footage. Witnesses? Who? Yes, priorities are key. If someone wants to delve into the no-plane stuff more power to them. Intellectual freedom is great. As for me, i dont care.its hard enuff 11+ yrs later to even explain the relevence of 911 to people, much less drown in minutia.
"Even to the death fight for truth, and the LORD your God will battle for you". Sirach 4:28
You don't think whether planes were actually used or not is relevant? I think it's paramount. Consider the implications. Consider what it's done to the airline industry. Minutia? Consider how powerful the psyop is.
its easy to disprove the govt lies, not so to prove unknowns. Getting folks to be receptive to the fact that satanist ghouls run the world & want to kill us off & set up a NWO,probably sounds wackier to the average chap than no planes.Implications indeed.
"Even to the death fight for truth, and the LORD your God will battle for you". Sirach 4:28
It may be pointless to talk to most about such things, but amongst many here anything can be discussed. Check out how many pug threads there are. I'd like to see someone look at the video evidence with an open mind in as much depth as some of us have here before they dismiss the idea that there were no planes as freakin disinfo. Seriously. killtown Why They Didn't Use Planes To Hit The WTC -- article and comment excerpts May 31, 2007 (Updated: 09/23/08) Monday, 24 January 2000 independent.co.uk "CBS owned a PVI LVIS computer, purchased for the EARLY SHOW in 2000. CBS was the command center for the broadcast. CBS generated the PVI animation. Do some research before all the links to CBS are pulled down owning a PVI LVIS COMPUTER SYSTEM IN 2000." "CBS bought PVI LVIS computer in 1999: i took a class at PVI (Princeton Video Image, ownd by Cablevision), Lawrenceville, NJ, in August 2007. On the 4th day we learned to animate graphics on virtual path created on a PVI 3D wireframe. It was then that I saw how PVI was used to animate the plane graphic on 911. PVI graphics are mapped to specific colors on which they appear on the TV monitor.Graphics is assigned (ie, green of football field, SKY blue of the 911 morning sky for the plane graphic to be annimated on TWIN TOWERS.camera shot). I can’t put this information in your head. You have to understand how PVI graphics animation appear only on the color chosen for the graphic to appear. (ie green on football field, sky blue on 911 am).. CBS bought a PVI LVIS computer in 1999 for the Early Show (during which time 911 01 plane graphic was animated).Early Show is broadcast from GM building on 59 St. and 5th avenue, NYC." [My note: the GM building is the location that's been identified as where the Empire State Building footage-angle was generated; which was aired by CBS on 9/11 and was later altered by PBS for usage in the 2003 documentaries referenced in the Smoke and Mirrors topics.] "CBS network usedt PVI L-VIS computer for the EARLY SHOW in 2000. The PVI virtual insertion was. used on New Year’s Eve 1999 broadcast to insert a CBS logo of NBC logo, CBS PVI made news. CBS Is Divided Over the Use Of False Images In Broadcasts By BILL CARTER Published: January 13, 2000 [My note: NYT, CNN, and digitalbroadcasting links available at the article site] A mainstream network president had even warned in 2000 about fake plane crashes using CGI: He noted that advances in computer-generated techniques had made things like missiles hitting Baghdad and airplanes crashing look so real that it was incumbent on networks to underscore that these were not real images. "Correction CBS bought the PVI L-VIS computer for the EARLY SHOW in 1999. The Early Show was moved from 524 W. 57th St. Broadcast Center to GM Building (also where Apple is) on 59th and 5th Ave. from which control room, the PVI plane graphic was generated. i took a class at PVI, Lawrenceville, NJ to learn to operate the PVI LVIS computer in 2007. On the 4th day, we learned to animate a graphic on a virtual path. That is when I learned that a PVI L-VIS computer generated the plane graphic. Another poster sent me the links to CBS logo story on the millenium broadcast and Andrew Heyward warned of corruption that might follow this technology being aired on TV." My note: So, I plan to move a link for this post to the Smoke and Mirrors topic for the records there because I think we have now established, with the above info, that the Empire State Building angle discussed in that contentious controversy (and which was traced to coordinates of the GM builiding) was generated from the very same GM building where a PVI L-VIS computer was located; and that is also the same building where the CBS Early Show with Bryant Gumble is broadcast, which aired the alleged news footage of that questionable Empire State Building angle (where the approach of the plane image seemingly appears as if out of nowhere from behind that building or as if out of the blue from an inward point in the sky). Circumstantial evidence at this point, yes, but quite the notable coincidences -- the main one being the PVI L- VIS computer. More on the PVI L-VIS computer here: 911 was a PVI VIRTUAL PLANE GRAPHIC ANIMATION: "There is great potential to use virtual imaging in other ways but it remains a tool whose biggest advantage is for live broadcasting," Madge says. "There are obvious advantages in virtual studios as you don't need a physical set, just a blue screen against which the presenter is shot and a three-D computer model. You can change it over very quickly - there's no need to shift scenery. CBS's problems arise from the fact that its use of the PVI system went one step further than "enhancing" the look of its presentation: it tampered with the reality of an actual event it was depicting in a news show, raising the spectre of TV news reporters reporting "live" from around the world when they're actually far closer to home. The broadcaster - which has also used virtual imaging to modify the New York cityscape - defended itself by insisting: 'CBS News' internal standards prohibit digital manipulation or other faking of news footage." However, a CBS spokeswoman admitted that virtual insertion technology is yet to be covered by the broadcaster's guidelines. But Dan Rather, for one, thinks it should be. "At the very least we should have pointed out to viewers we were doing it,'' he told the New York Times. "I did not grasp the possible ethical implications of this and that was wrong on my part.'' CBS is not the only broadcaster to use this technology in news broadcasts. Rival ABC recently included a report on Congress by a reporter wearing an overcoat in front of what to viewers seemed to be the US Capitol. The entire report was taped in a studio. Edited for a grammar insert and excerpt section at the last link. ------- "They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
I do not rule it out as a possibility but simply assign it such a low order of probability that it merits very little consideration as a viable hypothesis. What is it with you being stuck on holograms? As far as I can remember, the topic of holograms in 9/11 discussions was concocted by Planers who wanted to belittle No Planes research and didn't quite understand that CGI is something entirely different. It's occasionally gotten bandied about in debates, like other possibilities have about that day, but mostly through the insistence of Planers that no alleged witnesses were lying or wrong and they had to have actually seen something that looked like a plane; (paraphrased example) "So are you saying they saw holograms at the Pentagon and Shanksville!?" No, that's not what was being said or implied except by the critic. It's not a "No Planes thing" simply because they asked derisive questions repeatedly like that of No Planers, as if there couldn't be any other explanation that they could think of so that must be what we think happened; nor because the question can't be answered away and ruled out entirely as a possibility. Afterall, the technology for that has been around since 1947. As I remember it, the No Planes investigation started at the Pentagon and then was broadened to Shanksville. No Planes at the WTC wasn't being questioned much at first, let alone hologram-slams against us there. The biggest attention on NY early on was about controlled demolitions and that was so with No Plane at the Pentagon researchers too on the WTC topic; eventually, No Plane at Shanksville researchers as well. It was a while before evidence like the ABC "Butter Plane" footage and other WTC anomalies like the cookie-cutter impact outline were noted and examined closer. The point is that you and those like the scathing article author keep attempting to append holograms to No Planers as an absurdity that was started by us, as if it's something crucial to No Planes Theory when it hasn't been that I know of, but who exactly are you talking about as the originator/contributors? What works of No Planes analysis on the topic of holograms are you referring to? Maybe I've missed something but the most I can think of is some 2007/2008 remarks by John Lear. He noted a Military linkage and some conversations about it but he isn't the bulk of No Planes Theory by far. I'm guessing he probably gave more thought to the subject of holograms because of the insulting racket about it from Planer circles, like I kept hearing about Occam's Razor as an argument by annoyed Planers until I decided they were right about that only it wasn't planes that fit that model. This is from a post to you over 2 years ago where you had, as now, brought up the topic of holograms in response to mine (#884) when I hadn't mentioned it. I'll highlight the main part for you here so you might keep it in mind more from now on: 4um Title: The 9/11 conspiracy plots thicken GreyLmist posted on 2010-07-30 Re: holograms: I was in line for something at Disneyland about 30 years ago when I heard a small voice saying, "Help me, Obi-Wan Kenobi. You're my only hope." It was a tiny, lifelike and moving hologram of Princess Leia from Star Wars. There was also a really cool place with 3D stuff flying around that looked so real it seemed like you could touch them. However, the No Planes research is focused on CGI/Computer Graphic Imagery and not holograms. Edited for grammar next to last sentence of paragraph 1. ------- "They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
Do you think the people of NYC who were in adjacent office buildings, on the street, in their cars, in the WTC towers, along with the fire crews and police, were all blind? And what about the passengers of the aircraft, were they in on it too? The flight crews, the airlines, the airports, were they in on this grand scheme? What about the news crews on the scene, were they in on it as well? Do you think ALL those people were in on a grand scheme to not only pull off a series of "faked" impacts, but resulting explosions and collapse of the towers, leading to the murder of 3000 Americans? And yet, you have not provided ONE shred of evidence of either. The footage wasn't tampered with till years later, and the source of the tampering hasn't yet been determined, but it first showed up on PBS documentaries of the event. Perhaps it was done to get folks like you all riled up over it, feeding into this "no planes" absurdity in order to through gasoline into the fire, and muddy the waters in terms of 9/11 research. A reasonable person would not overlook that rather strong possibility. Because a large percentage of "no planers" feel that's what was used to "fake" the planes that people saw on 9/11. So what do YOU think people saw that day GL, alien space ships? Yep, just as the main article describes. They refuse to look at facts and evidence, they simply keep repeating their "talking points" ad nauseum. Reminds me of LP when dealing with BeAChooser and other clowns. Because the live broadcast did not have a view of the towers which would have shown the approach, it wasn't till they went to a different feed that they could see the plane. It's not evidence of "no planes", it's evidence of multiple cameras. Were they only supposed to own one camera in your mind? Ah, accuse those who have you figured as being what you actually are. Seen it MANY times before, as I'm sure others have here on this forum. This isn't LP where there are idiots who fall for such gimmicks. Do you have any evidence that they were in the "strikezone" rather than somewhere else, say for instance on floors which were UNDER the strikezone? In fact, do you have any evidence that they were there at all? I think you're implying that they rigged the impact hole to explode, is that correct? Well genius, I hate to be the one to tell you this, but the ENTRANCE HOLE could NOT be faked with an internal explosion, it would have had to been done with an EXTERNAL explosion in order for the blast to push the exterior wall INWARDS rather than OUTWARDS. (you) blablablablablablablablablablablablablablablablablablablablablablablablablablabl Who are the witnesses? The no planes hoax is a disinformation ploy designed to fragment and divide the 9/11 truth movement, and to discredit any valid research and evidence pertaining to 9/11, along with the scientists, engineers, architects, military personnel, intelligence officers, pilots, and others who have provided such evidence, scientific analysis, and expert knowledge. You try to claim you have technical data PROVING something, yet you are simply plagiarizing the work of others and calling it your own, trying to boost your credibility by mixing elements of truth in with your wild unfounded assertions regarding no planes. Bullshit. If you are trying to make a case that planes hit the wtc, you should at least have some evidence. Other than the tv. So let's have it. Who are all these "witnesses" of which you speak? Do you think NYC is a tiny little cow town with 10 people milking cows at 9AM? It is FILLED with millions of people, ANY which of whom could be at a vantage point to witness the attack on the WTC, ESPECIALLY after the 1st impact where it was on all news stations that a plane had hit the WTC. Do you have ANY witness who says they were looking at the towers from a vantage point where they should have seen the plane impact the tower, yet only saw an explosion, no plane? Again, do you think all the news networks, their news crews on the scene, the police and firemen who were there, along with the passengers, flight crews, air traffic controllers, airline personnel, airport personnel, ALL conspired together to attack the WTC with explosives leading to the murder of 3000 Americans? Do you have even one shred of evidence of anything you claim? You see wud, you are making incredible claims with NO valid evidence. You pretend that the people of NYC would NOT report a matter of importance so incredible as them seeing something with their eyes which differed from what the networks were reporting. Again, you are claiming ALL television networks conspired to kill 3000 Americans that day, and bring the world to war. Their on scene reporters and news crews obviously HAD to have been in on it for your scenario to be true, along with any of the firemen and police, along with WTC office workers (ie. some of the victims) who were facing the approach. They were ALL in on it, right wud? May 31, 2007 (Updated: 09/23/08) Edit #1: This is to activate the ref. link at Post #78 that I found wasn't working and was unable to edit to correct: Edit #2: Thought I had checked both links at Post #78 to make sure they worked when posted but noticed that this link there was broken too. Corrected link to activate: These are the paths for both links in case they deactivate after this: 2. www.davidicke.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1060174013&postcount=89 All links in this post have been checked and found to be working at the time of this posting. ------- "They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
The footage wasn't tampered with till years later, and the source of the tampering hasn't yet been determined, but it first showed up on PBS documentaries of the event. Perhaps it was done to get folks like you all riled up over it, feeding into this "no planes" absurdity in order to through gasoline into the fire, and muddy the waters in terms of 9/11 research. A reasonable person would not overlook that rather strong possibility. You've confused the quote you cited above with the Smoke and Mirrors topic on 9/11 CBS footage altered by PBS for 2003 documentaries. What you cited above is from this link and info below at Post #78 on the PVI L-VIS computer topic there; which I think I'll subtitle here as: PVI L-VIS arrives at the GM Building. I'll highlight the quote you cited so that you can find it easier and also some related Israeli info, which you claim to have a particular interest in -- unless it's me and not you or your faction who has posted the Israeli info, apparently, but here it is again anyway: 911 was a PVI VIRTUAL PLANE GRAPHIC ANIMATION "There is great potential to use virtual imaging in other ways but it remains a tool whose biggest advantage is for live broadcasting," Madge says. "There are obvious advantages in virtual studios as you don't need a physical set, just a blue screen against which the presenter is shot and a three-D computer model. You can change it over very quickly - there's no need to shift scenery. CBS's problems arise from the fact that its use of the PVI system went one step further than "enhancing" the look of its presentation: it tampered with the reality of an actual event it was depicting in a news show, raising the spectre of TV news reporters reporting "live" from around the world when they're actually far closer to home. The broadcaster - which has also used virtual imaging to modify the New York cityscape - defended itself by insisting: 'CBS News' internal standards prohibit digital manipulation or other faking of news footage." However, a CBS spokeswoman admitted that virtual insertion technology is yet to be covered by the broadcaster's guidelines. But Dan Rather, for one, thinks it should be. "At the very least we should have pointed out to viewers we were doing it,'' he told the New York Times. "I did not grasp the possible ethical implications of this and that was wrong on my part.'' CBS is not the only broadcaster to use this technology in news broadcasts. Rival ABC recently included a report on Congress by a reporter wearing an overcoat in front of what to viewers seemed to be the US Capitol. The entire report was taped in a studio. Edited for rewording of 1st paragraph, excerpt insert and to add that the CBS tampering noted was reported in 2000. Much more such interesting info on the PVI L-VIS subject at that link. ------- "They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
Without going into the rest of your post, are you trying to say that the actual footage from 2001 was tampered with one year BEFORE the event? Do you have any evidence that they were in the "strikezone" rather than somewhere else, say for instance on floors which were UNDER the strikezone? In fact, do you have any evidence that they were there at all? I think you're implying that they rigged the impact hole to explode, is that correct? Well genius, I hate to be the one to tell you this, but the ENTRANCE HOLE could NOT be faked with an internal explosion, it would have had to been done with an EXTERNAL explosion in order for the blast to push the exterior wall INWARDS rather than OUTWARDS. All of your questions and issues have already been addressed in earlier posts on the Art Students in-residence at the WTC with links which you can go back and check through or you could do your own research. Google: Lower Manhattan Cultural Council (LMCC) at Wikipedia. The New York Times article on the Gelitin group suspects was called Balcony Scene (Or Unseen) Atop the World. That should get you started. If you need further assistance, much of the info was posted starting at #16 in the thread: Killers of Americans run Romney campaign, US courts and media ‘Rabbi Dov Zakheim, who was the Pentagon comptroller at the time of the 9/11 attacks, is now top foreign policy advisor to US presidential contender Mitt Romney.’ Hope you catch up soon. ------- "They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
Every flaw, Every inconsistancy... every failure on there part.. of which their are legion... but they did not have to make it work forever.... they only needed to fool everyone for a short amount of time.... God Help us. That is not proof of a holographic projection system. It is evidence that suggests the images were played with but NOT WHY. It is certainly suspicious (and I trust the Propaganda Broadcasting Service about as far as I can throw the twin towers) but is not proof supporting anything more than that the images were manipulated. It could just as easily be because the projectiles/planes that were used for the distraction and shock value were other than as represented, but not that there were NO planes. It is ambiguous without additional verifiable information. I also agree, to a limited extent, that it did not have to work forever. However, when you control the media the only place for the information to get out is through other venues such as the Internet. Effectively the media are the arbiters of reality. That it is a created and false reality is almost irrelevent so far as public "Perception Management" is concerned. The official unreality is the only reality allowed on the airwaves without being disparaged or completely censored out. As a result a large percentage of the Sheeple either believe the official conspiracy theory or are afraid to face ridicule by admitting that they don't. No it doesn't. However, as Goebbels and Hitler proved you can repeat a big lie over and over and over and a certain large percentage of the weak minded herd will accept it. My point is that it does not have to be true to get enough of the Sheeple to Baaaa with the chorus. Again, relying on basic logic, "If two datums are mutually contradictory the first thing we can conclude is that ONE or BOTH are false. Without going into the rest of your post, are you trying to say that the actual footage from 2001 was tampered with one year BEFORE the event? No, that is not what the info said. Go back to Post #94 and reread it or, better yet, go to the linked site there which has more explanatory details than the short excerpts I posted. ------- "They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
True, but a certain unknown percentage of "No Planes" people assert that the planes and associated fireworks were all holograms. As well, as I pointed out above, evidence that the broadcast images were manipulated proves nothing more than that the broadcast images were manipulated. It does not tell us WHY and to what end they were manipulated, and it cuts both ways as I have read that some video experts who have looked at the "No Planes" videos have in turn pronounced them to have been manipulated. However, my basic point stands - it is irrelevant and therefore a Red Herring. The evidence of Nano-thermites and the video of the buildings visibly being eroded by some unknown agency are much more compelling as evidence. Therefore I infer that the "No Planes" is a planted disinformational diversion to keep people chasing their tails over irrelevencies. As for my motivations it is simple - I dislike disinformation and Red Herrings as they are both diversions and alterations of the truth. As far as I'm concerned you might as well assert that the impacts were "Flying Trains" or "Pink Elephants". So far as getting at the truth of matters it is largely a moot point that inspires endless haggling over irrelevant points. You can believe in the fuzz in your Belly Button if you want. However, that also is not relevant to establishing the "Best Evidence". Nano-Thermite residue is solid quantifiable, replicable evidence. The observed phenomena of a pancake collapse accompanied by squibs (and first hand testimony to explosions preceding the plane impacts) IS hard evidence. Check how many were created by someone other than Turdle. What it comes down to GL is that the entrance holes could NOT have been faked with interior explosives. So that means the entrance holes were caused by planes, lacking any other exterior force to cause penetration damage.
I also like to make the distinction between original live footage from the day of 9/11/2001, to that which had been broadcast years after the event. The PBS documentaries contain doctored footage, whereas original live footage from that morning does not show any signs of doctoring whatsoever. I'm not a demolitions expert, FL, but that aspect was already addressed in the thread I cited at Post #16. ------- "They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
Uh no, that post does not address how an interior explosion could cause an entrance hole. With EXTERIOR explosives, a hole emulating impact penetration COULD be done, however, there is simply no way for a INTERIOR explosion to cause damage emulating what an EXTERIOR explosive or impact would do. If the entrance hole showed that the beams and such had been blown OUTWARDS, then that'd be signs of an INTERIOR explosion. HOWEVER, since the damage is facing INWARDS, (ie. INTO the structure rather than OUT of the structure), all indications point to the fact an object penetrated INTO the structure. So then, what it comes down to is that the entrance hole was NOT faked. What is it you want to establish the "Best Evidence" for, O_I? Most Popular Storyline? The chain of custody on the nano-thermite is unreliable. If No Planes issues are moot and irrelevant to you then quit haggling, as you call it, and go peruse something that interests you more instead of heckling ongoing open investigations. Edited for spelling. ------- "They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
I don't have a lot of time right now to keep going over this for you, FL. The post does address how explosions inward could have been done. Look for key words like Dependable Glass and gum. Besides that, maybe you aren't aware that film makers have been using painted-in matte backgrounds and other FX of burning buildings and what have you since the "Gone With the Wind" era or earlier. It's not all that difficult for them. It's what they do for a living. Edited sentence 2. ------- "They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
So you're telling me those weren't real people standing at the entrance holes? You're trying to tell me that the damage was caused by gum? Or are you trying to tell me all those people who were taking close up shots of the entrance hole were in on the conspiracy too, and that it was all done in a Hollywood studio, broadcast in real time, and that nobody there noticed that what they were seeing on TV wasn't really what was happening? After 11+ years I can totally agree with you... it takes it's toll. ____________________________________________________________ . . . The US government has declared civil war on itself. Its lust for war grew so great... Liberty before death. We run , we live, We fight again, till we win. We did not start this fight. We damn sure did not willingly pay our taxes to buy the bullets and drones that shall be used to kill us. We will correct the violations of this rogue nation....our rogue nation. We will fix this because nobody else can. You will work to help me help us all to fix this failure. After you're done educating yourself, Action!!!
As far as I can tell their is no holograms nor any holographic projection system in that time that could produce the elaborate and huge holograms needed.... I do not see the evidence out there to convince me personally that holograms were used. I may not be willing to 100% Dismiss it completely outta hand but I think something else was used. CGI!!!! Computer generated images . I know what altered poor pixiliation looks like, I've been able to help other graphic experts spot the flaws. CGI was most definitely used... Amongst other stuff..... The truth is more outrageous then any theory we could of ever thought of. ____________________________________________________________ . . . The US government has declared civil war on itself. Its lust for war grew so great... Liberty before death. We run , we live, We fight again, till we win. We did not start this fight. We damn sure did not willingly pay our taxes to buy the bullets and drones that shall be used to kill us. We will correct the violations of this rogue nation....our rogue nation. We will fix this because nobody else can. You will work to help me help us all to fix this failure. After you're done educating yourself, Action!!!
Provide an example of any such flaw in the original live broadcast footage. I'd really like to see what you have, if anything. We need to demand the Pentagon provide their videos and the gas stations videos before we argure about this crap. The evidence is there. The criminals are not going to release it. And that is sufficent for a conclusion.
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"For my part, whatever anguish of spirit it may cost, I am willing to know the whole truth, to know the worst, and to provide for it.” ~ Patrick Henry
#73. To: Original_Intent (#63)
"For my part, whatever anguish of spirit it may cost, I am willing to know the whole truth, to know the worst, and to provide for it.” ~ Patrick Henry
#74. To: titorite (#70)
#75. To: Artisan (#74)
"For my part, whatever anguish of spirit it may cost, I am willing to know the whole truth, to know the worst, and to provide for it.” ~ Patrick Henry
#76. To: wudidiz (#75)
#77. To: Artisan (#76)
"For my part, whatever anguish of spirit it may cost, I am willing to know the whole truth, to know the worst, and to provide for it.” ~ Patrick Henry
#78. To: titorite, *9-11* (#67)
(Edited)
The ability to take over networks already existed. Live time insertion of pre-recorded stuff would of been no problem...
"Of the five 'live' shots of the alleged impacts there is not one reporter with any of those camera crews. It's like the anchors were the reporters. Did the networks just decide to share cameras? Why is there NOT ONE local newscast with a video of their own? And why do we know the identities of ALL of the people not associated with the networks that submitted videos of the alleged impacts and NOT know the identities of ANY of the news crews that captured the most spectacular shots in the history of live news?"
Viewers tuning into American broadcaster CBS's recent news coverage of the millennium celebrations in New York witnessed a televisual sleight of hand which enabled CBS to alter the reality of what they saw. Using "virtual imaging" technology, the broadcaster seamlessly adjusted live video images to include an apparently real promotion for itself in Times Square. The move has sparked debate about the ethics of using advances in broadcast technology to alter reality without telling viewers that what they are seeing isn't really there.
[Andrew Heyward, the president of CBS News,] said that he understood the argument against the use of the technology — which is widely employed in sports and some entertainment shows — on news programs. The danger is “that it looks too real and therefore it’s wrong or potentially wrong,” he said. “I certainly agree it’s potentially subject to abuse.”
The system CBS used was developed by a United States company called Princeton Video Images (PVI). Other players in this field include Symah Vision - part of French defence to media group Lagadere; Israel-based Orad Hi Tech Systems, and SciDex, another Israeli firm with offices in Europe and the US. Each system, while similar, has its differences. None of the companies will publicly discuss how their's works. But the principle is common: each alters the live video image in the split second before it is broadcast.
#79. To: Original_Intent (#62)
(Edited)
My conclusion is based on a variety of factors - not the least of which is the observed physical evidence and the observed phenomena combined with the technical feasibility of generating that large of a hologram. I don't want to be rude by calling it preposterous kookery, but on the other hand ...
#954. To: Original_Intent (#886)
#80. To: wudidiz (#73)
Witnesses? Who?
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#81. To: GreyLmist (#79)
However, the No Planes research is focused on CGI/Computer Graphic Imagery and not holograms.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#82. To: GreyLmist (#78)
it tampered with the reality of an actual event it was depicting in a news show
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#83. To: GreyLmist, Original_Intent (#79)
What is it with you being stuck on holograms?
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#84. To: RickyJ (#71)
Anyone pushing the absurd no plane theory is either a disinfo agent or they lack critical thinking skills.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#85. To: titorite, wudidiz (#69)
with bryant being unable to find it or see it and making mention of the fact that he could not observe it.....
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#86. To: GreyLmist (#68)
Other than the opening garbage-article posted at the top of this thread and authored by a probable COINTELPRO stooge,
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#87. To: GreyLmist, Original_Intent (#48)
Your detours around issues like the Art Students in- residence at the WTC within the strikezone
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#88. To: FormerLurker (#80)
(Edited)
(me) Witnesses? Who?
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ablablablablablablablablablablablablablablablablablablablablablablablablabla
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lablablablablablablablablablablablablablablablablablablablablablablah
"For my part, whatever anguish of spirit it may cost, I am willing to know the whole truth, to know the worst, and to provide for it.” ~ Patrick Henry
#89. To: GreyLmist, Artisan, RickyJ, Original_Intent, wududiz, *9-11* (#48)
No Planes research is legitimate research that also involves technical data capable of PROVING 9/11 was an inside job.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#90. To: FormerLurker (#89)
"For my part, whatever anguish of spirit it may cost, I am willing to know the whole truth, to know the worst, and to provide for it.” ~ Patrick Henry
#91. To: wudidiz (#88)
Who are the witnesses?
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#92. To: wudidiz (#90)
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#93. To: All (#78)
(Edited)
killtown Why They Didn't Use Planes To Hit The WTC -- article and comment excerpts
killtown Why They Didn't Use Planes To Hit The WTC -- article and comment excerpts
PVI L-VIS computer at GM Building + CBS Early Show with Bryant Gumble on 9/11 at GM Building + Smoke and Mirrors topic info on Empire State Building footage-angle coordinates at GM Building
911 was a PVI VIRTUAL PLANE GRAPHIC ANIMATION
1. killtown.blogspot.com/2007/05/why-they-didnt-use-planes-to-hit-wtc.html
#94. To: FormerLurker (#82)
(Edited)
it tampered with the reality of an actual event it was depicting in a news show
The system CBS used was developed by a United States company called Princeton Video Images (PVI). Other players in this field include Symah Vision - part of French defence to media group Lagadere; Israel-based Orad Hi Tech Systems, and SciDex, another Israeli firm with offices in Europe and the US. Each system, while similar, has its differences. None of the companies will publicly discuss how their's works. But the principle is common: each alters the live video image in the split second before it is broadcast. "There is great potential to use virtual imaging in other ways but it remains a tool whose biggest advantage is for live broadcasting," Madge says. "There are obvious advantages in virtual studios as you don't need a physical set, just a blue screen against which the presenter is shot and a three-D computer model. You can change it over very quickly - there's no need to shift scenery.
#95. To: GreyLmist (#94)
the CBS tampering noted was reported in 2000
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#96. To: FormerLurker (#87)
Your detours around issues like the Art Students in- residence at the WTC within the strikezone
#97. To: titorite (#67)
What is a problem is What wreckage (what little of it there was) was found and where. What is a problem is PBS showing off the wrong planes as the ones alleged to hit the towers.
IF the TV shows it over and over and over that does not make it true.
I mean it's like the jews who swear to god xyclone B is at awshuwitz in the walls and showers and such... but science can't prove it... someone or something is lying... it aint science.
#98. To: FormerLurker (#95)
the CBS tampering noted was reported in 2000
#99. To: GreyLmist (#68)
Graphic thechnology isn't a synonym for holographic technology
#100. To: wudidiz, Artisan (#77)
(Edited)
Check out how many pug threads there are.
#101. To: GreyLmist (#96)
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#102. To: Original_Intent, GreyLmist, *9-11* (#99)
As well, as I pointed out above, evidence that the broadcast images were manipulated proves nothing more than that the broadcast images were manipulated.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#103. To: FormerLurker (#101)
What it comes down to GL is that the entrance holes could NOT have been faked with interior explosives. So that means the entrance holes were caused by planes, lacking any other exterior force to cause penetration damage.
#104. To: GreyLmist, *9-11* (#103)
I'm not a demolitions expert, FL, but that aspect was already addressed in the thread I cited at Post #16.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#105. To: Original_Intent (#99)
(Edited)
establishing the "Best Evidence". Nano-Thermite residue is solid quantifiable, replicable evidence. The observed phenomena of a pancake collapse accompanied by squibs (and first hand testimony to explosions preceding the plane impacts) IS hard evidence.
#106. To: FormerLurker (#104)
(Edited)
#107. To: GreyLmist (#106)
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#108. To: Artisan (#74)
Yes, priorities are key. If someone wants to delve into the no-plane stuff more power to them. Intellectual freedom is great. As for me, i dont care.its hard enuff 11+ yrs later to even explain the relevence of 911 to people, much less drown in minutia.
#109. To: Original_Intent (#97)
That is not proof of a holographic projection system.
#110. To: titorite, Original_Intent (#109)
CGI!!!! Computer generated images . I know what altered poor pixiliation looks like, I've been able to help other graphic experts spot the flaws. CGI was most definitely used... Amongst other stuff..... The truth is more outrageous then any theory we could of ever thought of.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#111. To: FormerLurker (#110)
Provide an example of any such flaw in the original live broadcast footage. I'd really like to see what you have, if anything.
"Satan / Cheney in "08" 
#112. To: All (#111)
"Satan / Cheney in "08"
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