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9/11
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Title: NO PLANER COINTELPRO Operation Becoming Transparent
Source: Prison Planet Forum
URL Source: http://forum.prisonplanet.com/index.php?topic=945.50;wap2
Published: Aug 1, 2008
Author: Morgan Rose
Post Date: 2012-10-06 10:54:21 by FormerLurker
Ping List: *9-11*     Subscribe to *9-11*
Keywords: None
Views: 20130
Comments: 309

COINTELPRO, an acronym for Counter Intelligence Program, was a series of covert operations conducted by the FBI starting in the mid 50’s and continuing until 1976 when it was exposed by the investigations The Church Committee. One of the primary methods of COINTELPRO consisted of forging pseudo-movement groups as a means of conducting Psychological Warfare operations to spread disinformation, disrupt, and divide existing movements. These ‘psy-ops’ tended to foment suspicions among the targeted movements and try to dissuade sympathies from people outside the targeted movement.

Today, COINTELPRO has reared its ugly head again, with infiltrations popping up everywhere from Anti-War activism groups to peaceful gun owners and militias. Provocations have become more and more conspicuous to the public as the Seattle World Trade Organization protests and Ontario Security and Prosperity Partnership protests successfully exposed provocateur operations. Of course, something as dangerous to the establishment *body politic* as 9/11 has not been without its alleged incidents of COINTELPRO action. Allegations of government disinformation have been swirling around certain figures in the movement, such as former Bush Administration official Morgan Reynolds, who has recently proposed that “no planes hit the World Trade Center”, has alleged “TV Fakery”, and submitted that the towers were brought down by “Directed Energy Weapons” a.k.a. “Laser Beams”.

While the government has spent innumerable resources trying to contradict eyewitness statements regarding reported explosions in the towers, Morgan Reynolds and his “mockingbirds” expect the 9/11 truth movement to put their energy into further contradicting even more numerous eyewitness statements . See a problem here?

Typical of the above outlined methods, “No Planers” have become a pseudo-movement, adding lunacy, deception, and division to the legitimate questions emanating from 9/11 families, first responders, government officials, intelligence experts, scientists, engineers, architects, academics, entertainment personalities, and so many others.

Perhaps the more visible purveyors of this pseudo-movement are supported by Paula Gloria’s “Concordia Foundation”. The “Concordia Foundation” claims 501 (c) 3, or “nonprofit” status, However, recent investigations conducted by concerned donors have uncovered that her “foundation” does not retain “nonprofit” status with the IRS. In fact, more rigorous inquires have obtained that no records of the “Concordia Foundation” even exist in its home state of New York. Funding of Paula Gloria’s “foundation” originates solely from an information technology firm, Bit By Bit Computer Consultants. “Donations” to the “Concordia Foundation” are actually billed directly to Bit By Bit. The apparent fraud has appropriately prompted multiple complaints with the FTC and IRS.

Bit By Bit, and its subsidiary 3BDigital, admittedly list among their portfolio Bloomberg LLC, Chase Bank, The National Football League, Citigroup, and The National Security Council. 3BDigital boasts to have partnerships with Nokia, Cisco Systems, IBM, Compaq, Microsoft, Goldman Sachs, and Level (3) Communications. Level (3) Communications, a defense contractor doing business, primarily, with US and UK interests, is the developer of the WESCAM system said to be the delivery mechanism for the supposed “TV Fakery”. Of course this is nonsense, but it is fascinating that these harlequins would incorporate their partnerships into their own theories.

The “Concordia Foundation” numbers among its surrogates Nico Haupt,” a man who exhibits *prima facie *schizophrenic behavior. Allegations of COINTELPRO surrounding Haupt have, in the past, seemed to be justified. WeAreChange recently had two unprovoked incidents with Haupt, where he assaulted the groups members, only to be ignored by onlooking NYPD.

Haupt continuously spreads disinformation, even abject lies, surrounding the 9/11 truth movement. From calling legitimate 9/11 truthers “Plane Huggers”, to claiming “Alex Jones works for ABC” and is “covering up for the media”, Haupt’s tactics and behavior exhibit classic COINTELPRO methods. Haupt even advocates “waterboarding Plane Huggers”.

So a “foundation” with intimate ties to international defense contractors, major Wall Street banks, prominent telecommunications firms, and The National Security council is a driving force behind the “No Plane” pseudo-movement?

The information promulgated by Paula Gloria, Nico Haupt, Morgan Reynolds, and others is clearly suspect in light of these new revelations. Whereas, before, all of the speculation regarding “No Plane” theories were simply diffused by logic and common sense, now we see that something much more sinister is at play. The divide and conquer tactics employed by these clowns has warranted past allegations of COINTELPRO. Today, the charade has been fully exposed: the pyschological warfare, the subliminals, the allegations of ‘cover-up’ within the movement, the show on the Howard Stern Channel. Although these revelations should prompt further investigation, it certainly begs the question: does it get any more transparent? Subscribe to *9-11*

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Saboteurs Attacking The 9/11 Truth Movement: The No-WTC-Planes/Video-Fakery/Energy-Beams Disinformation Gang A gang of disinformation agents is posing as 9/11 researchers and attempting to sabotage the 9/11 truth effort by: Claiming that they themselves are 9/11 researchers (which they are not, because they don't use scientific methods) Broadcasting lying smear attacks against the actual 9/11 researchers, in order to discredit the actual research results. Making absurd claims: that no planes hit the World Trade Center, that the dozens of videos showing the planes were all faked, that the WTC was destroyed by energy beams or H-bombs, etc. Their purpose in making the obviously absurd claims is to confuse the public into thinking that 9/11 researchers are crackpots, and therefore their information should be ignored. Motive The American/Israeli/British fascist governments have used their Big Lie -- that the 9/11 attacks were done by "Islamic Terrorists" -- as their pretext for murdering millions of people in Afghanistan, Iraq, and Palestine, practicing the most horrible tortures upon innocent people, instituting surveillance, invasion of privacy, and the threat of kidnapping, torture, and murder against their own citizens, and threatening to censor or shut down the Internet. In other words, for creating the "New World Order" -- a global fascist slave state. The 9/11 truth effort is having ever increasing success in reaching the public with the results of the scientific analysis showing that the World Trade Center was destroyed by explosives and incendiaries that "Islamic Terrorists" could not possibly have placed in the buildings. This worries the criminal elements of the U.S. government greatly, and both Bush and Obama have ordered that their story about 9/11 must never be questioned, and that those who do question it are terrorists in league with "Al-Qaeda" (which actually does not exist as an organized international force). The government has created websites, magazine articles, and books claiming to refute the 9/11 physical research, but these government productions have been shown to be full of lies. So, in order to disrupt the effectiveness of the 9/11 truth movement directly, a COINTELPRO type operation was apparently initiated, as it has been against virtually all organizations and movements opposing U.S. government fascist wars and oppression. The operations of the Disinformation Gang fit the usual COINTELPRO pattern. Disinformation Gang Members Major participants in the Disinformation Gang (as I call them) are James Fetzer, Morgan Reynolds (former chief economist of G W Bush's Department of Labor), Judy Wood, Ace Baker, Kevin Barrett, Rosalee "Webfairy" Grable, Nico Haupt, Gerard Holmgren, Rick Siegel, Jeff Hill, and a number of others who hide their identity under pseudonyms like "Coffinman". James Fetzer is a former JFK assassination "researcher" who claimed that the Zapruder film -- which is the most important piece of evidence in the case and proves that Lee Harvey Oswald could not have been the killer -- was faked by the government, and therefore was not valid as evidence. Fetzer was a co-founder with physicist Steven Jones of the Scholars for 9-11 Truth, which initially was the most credible and effective 9/11 research organization, listing as members hundreds of professional experts in various fields. But once the Scholars achieved wide recognition, Fetzer began publishing on the organization's website the obviously absurd claims of the Disinformation Gang -- that no planes hit the WTC, that the videos showing the planes had all been faked, etc. Many of the members raised strong objections to his actions, but Fetzer continued pushing the lies (and he still does currently, as of June 2009). In December 2006 a vote was taken on this issue among the members (over Fetzer's angry objections) and his policy of pushing lying disinformation was rejected by 153 to 9. In spite of this, he refused to stop, and so Steven Jones and most of the members left and formed the Scholars for 9/11 Truth & Justice. General Methods Used The most successful factor in exposing the government lies about 9/11 has been scientific investigation of the physical evidence. This evidence and its analysis are objective, and can't be countered by excuses like, "General Myers didn't send up interceptor jets because he was in a meeting when the airliners were hijacked." Physicist Steven Jones, author David Ray Griffin, architect Richard Gage, and political activist Alex Jones have been among the most effective in bringing this information to the public. Just as the 9/11 truth movement was having substantial success in getting the word out, a small gang of people, many hiding their identity, sprang up and began spewing out huge amounts of disinformation masquerading as scientific research, but contradicting the real research. These people support one another, and say that they are the only real 9/11 researchers. The gang's disinformation includes claims that no planes hit the World Trade Center, that all the videos showing the planes hitting were faked by the government, and that the WTC was destroyed by energy beam weapons or H-bombs (not by explosives and thermate). Upon close examination, the gang's claims all turn out to be lies, but people who don't have a scientific background are sometimes taken in by them. The gang has published many hundreds of videos, blog entries, forum posts, and web pages. They appear to be well financed. Their enormous campaign also includes direct lying smear attacks against the most effective real 9/11 investigators and activists -- Steven Jones, David Ray Griffin, and Alex Jones. The goal of this gang is to confuse naive members of the public into thinking that real 9/11 researchers are spouting absurd garbage like "No planes hit the World Trade Center" and "All the WTC plane crash videos were faked". Even people without a scientific education, just using common sense, know that these claims are ridiculous. And that is the goal of the Disinformation Gang! They want people to think that the 9/11 truth movement is full of idiots and crackpots, so people willl go back to believing the government's lies, and welcoming a police state for protection against nonexistent "terrorists". Details of the Gang's Absurd Claims In addition to making savage, lying personal attacks against the people most successful in spreading the truth of 9-11 to the population -- Steven Jones, David Ray Griffin, Richard Gage, and Alex Jones -- various gang members claim that the following techniques were used in the destruction of the World Trade Center. The fact that many of these violate well-known laws of physics, contradict the evidence, and some are also mutually exclusive doesn't inhibit the gang. Refutations are given in parentheses. Keep in mind that these claims are designed to be seen as absurd in order to make people think that 9/11 researchers are nutballs. no planes hit the WTC (a few people saw the first plane hit, and many saw the second, which was also captured on dozens of videos and still photos) all the videos and photos, even those made by private people, were faked by the government (all of the analysis presented by the gang to prove this turns out to be lies, in some cases using tampered versions of the actual videos) an error in "video fakery" showed the plane's nose emerging from the opposite side of WTC2 (refuted in detail here) all the witnesses who saw the planes hit were lying or brainwashed by watching TV (firemen, police, thousands of citizens saw the second missiles disguised as planes by means of holograms (impossible, because, since light travels in straight lines, the hologram generator would have to be as large as a 767) "UFO orbs" (actually the lights of helicopters in the distance) "scalar waves" (which don't exist and are a fraud by Tom Bearden) "Hutchison effect" (which also doesn't exist and is a fraud by John Hutchison) micro-hydrogen bombs not using fission triggers (which don't exist, would have made an enormous flash and bang, and would have made radioactive elements which were not found) missiles hidden by "cloaking devices" (which don't exist) flocks of UAVs -- unmanned aerial vehicles -- to account for individual puffs of dust and smoke during the crashes (these were caused simply by turbulent air flow) energy beams from space satellites (which would have required the combined power of hundreds of nuclear power plants, would have made the concrete dust burning hot, would have burned people on the ground, would have made enormous lightning bolts in the air, and could not have penetrated even one of the hundred steel floor pans) This gang has created dozens of websites, blogs, forums, mailing lists, Net radio programs, and various other outlets for their lies. Their intention is to associate these nonsensical claims with the actual 9-11 research movement, in order to discredit it. They have already begun to succeed: articles have been published in mainstream media saying that 9-11 researchers are nutty conspiracy theorists who say that no planes hit the World Trade Center. Cars Were Not Burned By Energy Beams Here is a refutation of one of their claims -- that cars near the WTC were burned in peculiar ways that proves they were hit by energy beams from space: Ordinary burned cars with the same damage as WTC cars The "Spire" Did Not Turn To Dust The disinfo gang claims that the WTC steel "spire" -- some girders that remained standing briefly after one of the towers fell -- was "dustified" by directed energy beams, this based on low-resolution video from which it's impossible to tell what happened. In fact, any type of energy that can reduce solid steel to dust would have to vaporize it first, which would require heating it to beyond white-hot in order to overcome the very strong interatomic bonds that make steel such a strong construction material. Such heating would cause the steel to emit a blindingly bright blue-white light. Of course this didn't happen. What did happen is shown in the two closeup higher resolution videos below: the spire simply fell, mostly dropping vertically downward. At the end the tallest part also begins a rotation to the left, which can be seen in the second video. The sideways motion causes some blurring due to the video compression process. A lesser degree of blurring is seen in the first video as the spire falls, but it's clear that the various parts of the structure remain intact, because they keep their geometric relationship with one another; dust clouds could not do that. 911.wtc.1.s pire.close.up.avi collapse-01-spire-clip.avi If your video player won't display these, download and install mplayer. It runs on Linux, Mac OSX, and Microsoft Windows, and can expand videos to full-screen, and also run them in slow-motion or frame by frame, so you have time to perceive and understand what's happening. http://www.mplayerhq.hu/ Is the No-WTC-Planes/Video- Fakery/Energy-Beams Disinformation Gang COINTELPRO? People in various 9-11 truth groups are now starting to connect the following facts: The U.S. government has carried out COINTELPRO operations -- infiltration, disinformation, and disruption -- against all major anti-war, anti-racist, and pro-environmental organizations in the past. The 9-11 truth movement is exposing as a huge and murderous fraud the 9-11 pretext for the entire "eternal war against terrorism" -- which is actually for war profiteering, seizure of oil resources, extension of geopolitical/military power, and obedience to the demands of the state of Israel. It is therefore very likely that a COINTELPRO operation is being undertaken against the 9-11 truth movement. No-WTC-Planes/Video-Fakery/Energy-Beams Disinformation Gang has all the characteristics of a COINTELPRO operation against the 9-11 truth movement, and it is the only group that does.

FormerLurker  posted on  2012-10-06   11:10:19 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

Thanks for the dogged defense of the positions that you have taken, FL.

Given the effect of ten years of debate on the internet, which has brought the debate out into the open and has now made discussion of these many questions acceptable in polite social conversation, a reaction on the part of the most dangerous parts of our establishment is to be expected.

We have to be extra vigilant these days when we examine evidence and theories as to causes and methods used in the attacks on that day. There is a lot of disinformation out there. COINTELPRO is not dead.

Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin to slit throats. - H. L. Mencken

randge  posted on  2012-10-06   11:15:30 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

You're welcome randge. And it's quite obvious that COINTELPRO is not dead, it is thriving and kicking in full bloom.

It's to be expected with something as huge as 9/11 that it would be used to divide and conquer the truth movement, while at the same time discrediting those who are the most vocal, such as Architects and Engineers for 9/11 Truth, Pilots for 9/11 Truth, etc.

FormerLurker  posted on  2012-10-06   11:24:15 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

i noticed that the clique of "mainstream" (kosher) truthers bombasted reynolds & fetzer yrs ago. Dr. Fetzer addresses the zionists & even the holhoax, which makes him trustworthy in my book.One may debate matters without necessarily being cointelpro.

"Even to the death fight for truth, and the LORD your God will battle for you". Sirach 4:28

Artisan  posted on  2012-10-06   20:09:08 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

Now tell us about the plane strike at the Pentagon, FL, and how all the D.C. witnesses there who claimed to see that are to be believed -- or are you a 25% No Planer on that scenario?

No Planes research doesn't threaten the 9/11 Truth Movement. The author of that old article is probably COINTELPRO, imo. He wants you to keep the official cover story about plane attacks as the pretext for Wars flying for the perps and you are determined to do that -- to help them to continue burying our War casualties and others in their lies.

-------

"They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC

GreyLmist  posted on  2012-10-07   5:54:38 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

Dr. Fetzer addresses the zionists & even the holhoax, which makes him trustworthy in my book.

If Feltzer is a "no planer", don't you think he could easily pretend to be "addressing the zionists", while at the same time bringing discredit and ridicule to those who point out factual evidence of Mossad involvement?

FormerLurker  posted on  2012-10-07   14:50:25 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

Now tell us about the plane strike at the Pentagon, FL

Uh huh. We are talking about the WTC GL, not the Pentagon. It's been acknowledged that the aircraft which struck the Pentagon was most likely some form of cruise missile or drone.

On the other hand, with television cameras from across the globe focused on the WTC after the first impact, it would certainly not have been possible to use a cruise missile for that attack. A military KC-767 tanker configured as a drone on the other hand would not be significantly different from a Boing 767 passenger jet however, so it is quite possible that is what was used.

It wasn't all faked in a studio beforehand though GL, and it wasn't a conspiracy requiring the participation of anyone in NYC who happened to be looking at the towers at the time of the impacts, nor of the entire world television media, their reporters, camera men, along with NYC first responders such as police and firemen.

You certainly seem brighter than that GL. What is it with your cognitive dissonance? Or are you just pretending?

FormerLurker  posted on  2012-10-07   14:59:08 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

Liking a guy because he claims to be "addressing the zionists" or pretends to do so, is like voting for Mitt Romney because he calls himself a conservative and pretends to be one.

FormerLurker  posted on  2012-10-07   15:01:47 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

The author of that old article is probably COINTELPRO, imo.

I knew about this aspect of 9/11 for years, GL. There most certainly ARE COINTELPRO tactics in play, and have been for quite some time. I didn't think I'd meet anyone here on this forum who actually swallowed the "no plane" COINTELPRO BS, but apparently there are at least a few who have.

I'm pretty sure that you're intelligent enough to know how absurdly impossible the "no plane theory" is if you think about it logically, factually, and scientifically.

If you had been less intelligent, I'd say ok, maybe you WERE gullible and dumb enough to fall for the bait, but no, I think you know full well what you're doing.

With the tactics you've been using GL, I wouldn't need to be Jason Bourne to know what you're all about.

FormerLurker  posted on  2012-10-07   15:26:41 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

Now tell us about the plane strike at the Pentagon, FL

Uh huh. We are talking about the WTC GL, not the Pentagon. It's been acknowledged that the aircraft which struck the Pentagon was most likely some form of cruise missile or drone.

On the other hand, with television cameras from across the globe focused on the WTC after the first impact, it would certainly not have been possible to use a cruise missile for that attack. A military KC-767 tanker configured as a drone on the other hand would not be significantly different from a Boing 767 passenger jet however, so it is quite possible that is what was used.

In other words, you are a 25% No Planer and think that's perfectly acceptable as long as you don't forthrightly call it that. Your Boeing-comparable tanker theory is not quite possible anymore than a regular Boeing. Highly doubtful that remote control does anything to immunize drone aircraft to ground effects, aerodynamic stresses from physics defying maneuvers and other noted factors of implausibility at the Pentagon.

It wasn't all faked in a studio beforehand though GL, and it wasn't a conspiracy requiring the participation of anyone in NYC who happened to be looking at the towers at the time of the impacts, nor of the entire world television media, their reporters, camera men, along with NYC first responders such as police and firemen.

You certainly seem brighter than that GL. What is it with your cognitive dissonance? Or are you just pretending?

I've already addressed your overestimates elsewhere on the extent of those knowingly involved in the deceptions or not. I've already mentioned Don Dahler's report that he saw no plane, just an explosion. A Chopper pilot is reportedly dead under suspicious circumstances -- Edit to add: Paul Smith, the WABC Chopper 7 pilot, among others like Gen. Wherley; also another Commander of one the Fighter Wings that flew that day and a pilot of that Air Wing reportedly died in a crash in Iraq. I suspect that the WTC plans did not go quite according to how the perps had anticipated. They needed a certain amount of video and planted witnesses to implement their pretext for War but not real planes. There is MSM footage that shows no visible plane approach until much later in the day, which indicates a manipulated insert. Not realistically likely that the perps could count on no off-course plane interceptions whatsoever by our Military unless they didn't use any. What's with your cognitive dissonance on that?

Edited for punctuation and addition at sentence 3 of last paragraph.

-------

"They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC

GreyLmist  posted on  2012-10-08   1:53:36 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

I suspected there were no real planes used on 9/11 before there were any other No Planers that I knew of. Was probably the same situation in many of their cases too at first. If you think COINTELPRO hasn't infiltrated every sector of the 9/11 Truth Movement somehow, including yours -- even especially yours, you are fooling yourself and maybe some others that gullible but not me. COINTELPRO smears against No Planers does nothing to alter the fact that it is No Planes research that eliminates altogether the perps plane-attacks pretext for War abroad and the impositions of a Police State against our Constitutional Republic. Edit to reword: No doubt they are motivated to undermine No Planers more so than other 9/11 investigations but it is your version that serves COINTELPRO interests to those ends.

-------

"They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC

GreyLmist  posted on  2012-10-08   2:17:08 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

A military KC-767 tanker

I'd like to talk about refueling tankers on 9/11 for a bit:

Transcript: Alex Jones Interviews Col. Donn de Grand-Pre, U.S. Army (ret.): Explosive New 9/11 Revelations and Explanations; re: the Happy Hooligans, North Dakota Air Guard flying the F-16s

John: Were there any refueling jets involved in that operation?

[No answer]

John: Was there any refueling tankers used by the North Dakota Air Guard and what tanker wing was used?

DGP: I don't know about the aircraft itself. I don't know about refueling.

A pilot of a different Fighter Wing did refuel over Lake Erie that day: Local F-16 pilot reflects on role, chaos of 9/11

Just FYI: Colonel John Keenan, the TN Air National Guard wing commander of refueling operations in Knoxville TN during 9/11, was arrested by sheriff deputies and sent to the loonybin for "drunk driving"(because he had zero alcohol in his body)

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"They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC

GreyLmist  posted on  2012-10-08   3:33:33 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

I think it's been established that you are a 25% No Planer so, let's see if that percentage is actually much too low.

9-11 and Zion What Was Israel’s Role - Veterans Today

From the Comments section:

Define “no plane theory”. How many of those articles have you read? Are you aware that Flights 11 and 77 were not even scheduled that day? and that, according to FAA records, the planes corresponding to Flights 93 and 175 were not de-registered (formally taken out of service) until 28 September 2005? So how could planes that were not in the air have crashed on 9/11? and how could planes that crashed on 9/11 have still been in the air four years later?

Are you aware that Pilots for 9/11 Truth has established, based upon studies of air/ground communications, that Flight 93 was in the air but over Champaign- Urbana, IL, after its “crash” in Shanksville, PA? and that Flight 175 was also in the air but over Harrisburg and Pittsburgh, PA, long after its “hit” on the South Tower? Are you a student of 9/11? Do you believe in evidence? Or are you willing to believe anything the government tells you, no matter how much it may have been refuted?

Maybe you're a 50% or 75% No Planer -- even a 100% No Planer -- and just don't realize it yet; or don't want to openly admit to it on account of that would subject you to all of the flack your sort has been generating in our direction. Something karma-like about that; not that I believe in karma, what with all the evidence to the contrary, but similar.

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"They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC

GreyLmist  posted on  2012-10-08   4:03:07 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

he doesnt 'claim' to be discussing the forbidden topic of jews, It's just something i noticed after he was excluded from the kosher 'clique'. It has nothing to do with the no-plane stuff, a topic which i find irrelevent.

"Even to the death fight for truth, and the LORD your God will battle for you". Sirach 4:28

Artisan  posted on  2012-10-08   4:54:27 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

The "no plane" topic is a HUGE red flag for me, as it indicates the person peddling it has no grasp on reality at best, or is purposesly shelling out disinfo in earnest in order to discredit any actual evidence and research into the 9/11 attacks.

FormerLurker  posted on  2012-10-08   12:23:42 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

You are saying NO AIRCRAFT hit the towers, and that NO AIRCRAFT hit the Pentagon, it was ALL faked.

You are even saying the doomed flights never even flew that day. SO I guess all the passengers and flight crews were part of the massive conspiracy too, eh?

Add them to the list of millions who'd have to be part of this whacky plan to fabricate video which could be broadcast in real time, along with the live reports from the scene, designed to fool the world that attacks took place on 9/11.

Is there anyone who WASN'T in on this conspiracy?

FormerLurker  posted on  2012-10-08   12:29:00 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

The "no-plane" nonsense seems pretty clearly to be disinformation planted to disinform, discredit 911 Truth, and mislead.

I don't pretend to have the final data set but I think it is safe to say that the "Official Conspiracy Theory" involving a "Magic Arab" with his "Charmed Cellphone" in a cave in Tora Bora makes about as much sense as "no planes". In other words both are disinfo.

I do think focusing on the likely Mossad connection is a bit of a Red Herring as well. It is not that I do not think that there were Israelis involved, but that they were not in charge of the Op but just one of the players.

Original_Intent  posted on  2012-10-08   14:26:38 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

The "no plane" topic is a HUGE red flag for me, as it indicates the person peddling it has no grasp on reality at best, or is purposesly shelling out disinfo in earnest in order to discredit any actual evidence and research into the 9/11 attacks.

Oh, but it isn't a red flag at the Pentagon for you and others of your 25% No Planes faction, is it? Posts like yours show that your group is conditioned to react so against what you are fractionally yourselves, like compliant COINTEL- brainwashed subjects.

-------

"They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC

GreyLmist  posted on  2012-10-08   16:00:42 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

Oh, but it isn't a red flag at the Pentagon for you and others of your 25% No Planes faction, is it? Posts like yours show that your group is conditioned to react so against what you are fractionally yourselves, like compliant COINTEL- brainwashed subjects.

Hey genius, HOW MANY TIMES do you need to be reminded of the fact that we are talking about the WTC attacks in terms of "no planes"? It's been acknowledged MANY times that a 757 not only DIDN'T strike the Pentagon, but COULDN'T have struck the Pentagon as described.

It is NOT part of the "no plane" theory which insists all live video of the WTC attacks were prerecorded in some super duper secret high tech news studio, and that ALL of the networks, their reporters, and camera men who were on the scene that day were in on the "faked attacks".

FormerLurker  posted on  2012-10-08   16:04:57 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

The "no-plane" nonsense seems pretty clearly to be disinformation planted to disinform, discredit 911 Truth, and mislead.

And why do you say that?

Have you looked into it as deep as you could have?

I know I did not become a no planer over night.

But their remain problems... big glaring huge ,"drive a mack truck through the hole in the plot" problems...

Problems I can not turn a blind eye away from.

Inconsistencies I refuse to ignore.

One plane can not be caught on camera flying on different flight paths.

.......

I am not attempting to mislead anyone. I may not have the fine debate skills of GreyLmist but at least I don't resort to using disinformation tactics strait from the disinformation hand book.... it is very hard to deal with that kind of shit Original-Intent... god knows FormerLurker is just getting his jollies off on it all... thats part of the problem with utilising the tactics of disinformation.... Amateur enthusiasts forget the tactics are a weapon and then that becomes their default style of internet posting.... In my view he discredited himself..... especially when he crossed that line of using innocent bystanders to get at me. One should never use another friends against them... only scum do that. ......

This topic has exhausted me.

I don't get paid for this shit... I damn sure earned nothing for my tens of thousands of hours of investigation. ..... I am no shill. I am not discrediting anything.... I may not know the whole truth of all.. in fact if I did I would probably need to stand trial.. as for the planes though...

NO plane at the pentagon.

No plane at shanksville.

No planes.

____________________________________________________________ . . . The US government has declared civil war on itself. Its lust for war grew so great... Liberty before death. We run , we live, We fight again, till we win. We did not start this fight. We damn sure did not willingly pay our taxes to buy the bullets and drones that shall be used to kill us. We will correct the violations of this rogue nation....our rogue nation. We will fix this because nobody else can. You will work to help me help us all to fix this failure. After you're done educating yourself, Action!!!

titorite  posted on  2012-10-08   16:41:49 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

It is not that I do not think that there were Israelis involved, but that they were not in charge of the Op but just one of the players.

Thing is, they were caught red-handed with tons of explosives in a van on the George Washington Bridge that day, AND they were caught blowing up a truck on King Street in NYC that morning.

So that right there is pretty solid evidence they were not only involved, but were part of an operation consisting of elements of the US government, since it's the US government which had them in custody and then let them go back to Israel without any charges whatsoever.

FormerLurker  posted on  2012-10-08   16:46:01 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

ISRAEL DID 9/11: ALL THE PROOF IN THE WORLD zcfresearch.wordpress.com/israel-did-911/

"Even to the death fight for truth, and the LORD your God will battle for you". Sirach 4:28

Artisan  posted on  2012-10-08   22:31:51 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

Hey genius, HOW MANY TIMES do you need to be reminded of the fact that we are talking about the WTC attacks in terms of "no planes"? It's been acknowledged MANY times that a 757 not only DIDN'T strike the Pentagon, but COULDN'T have struck the Pentagon as described.

It is NOT part of the "no plane" theory which insists all live video of the WTC attacks were prerecorded in some super duper secret high tech news studio, and that ALL of the networks, their reporters, and camera men who were on the scene that day were in on the "faked attacks".

You've inflated the numbers again and might think you're "the decider" on defining No Planes Theory but you're not. You're a gatekeeper against No Planes investigations at the WTC and, lo these many years, Mike Rivero over at whatreallyhappened.com has been gatekeeping especially against No Plane at the Pentagon investigations. That's just one example of someone influential who would likely disagree with your insistence that No Plane at the Pentagon folks are to be exempted from classification as No Planers.

Edited for spelling.

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"They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC

GreyLmist  posted on  2012-10-10   3:40:23 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

Comment at Who Did 9/11?:

I managed to track down Mr. [Dominic] Suter to the Zoomcopter biz

http://mybigfatanti-zionistlife.blogspot.com/2009/08/
9-11-mossad-mall-spies-zoomcopters-and.html

Israelis in the malls also sell other crappy little toys like airplanes.

The van at 6th and King was described as having a mural "with a plane crashing into New York City" (NOT into the WTC)

The graphic on the van may have had something to do with this other line of business Suter was involved in (the shopping mall helicopter/plane vendors). Just a thought.

Suter was reported some years ago as having re-entered America -- through Canada, iirc.

-------

"They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC

GreyLmist  posted on  2012-10-10   3:55:18 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

TITLE OF THREAD

NO PLANER COINTELPRO Operation Becoming Transparent

AUTHOR

FormerLurker

Question. IF you think their was no plane at the pentagon why do you deny being a no planer? the events of 911 cover alot more than just wtc7, wtc 1 and 2 , the vanishing gold, all the paper assests ...... come the F on......

No plane at pentagon?

Stop denying being a no planer LOL .

____________________________________________________________ . . . The US government has declared civil war on itself. Its lust for war grew so great... Liberty before death. We run , we live, We fight again, till we win. We did not start this fight. We damn sure did not willingly pay our taxes to buy the bullets and drones that shall be used to kill us. We will correct the violations of this rogue nation....our rogue nation. We will fix this because nobody else can. You will work to help me help us all to fix this failure. After you're done educating yourself, Action!!!

titorite  posted on  2012-10-10   4:41:29 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

You folks have been debating the planes/no planes issue for over 10 years now. Each of you likely thinks your theory is correct or as near correct as available information will allow. OK, already !!!

We all should be able to agree that the truth hasn't been discussed let alone exposed by the MSM. Their complicity is what should be discussed. The deaths caused by the attack and as a result of 9-11 seem to have been forgotten while the argument about planes or no planes drags on ad nauseum.

The fact that 9-11 even happened at all in spite of the billions spent on "security" and "intelligence" should be analyzed. Instead Americans re-elect Bush Jr. and his PNAC crew ... ya gotta be shittin me.

Sometimes I get depressed regarding the intellect of the "voting" public. Overall they're really too stupid to have any bearing upon my liberty but my point here is that most of you (FormerLurker, Artisan, GreyLmist, titorite, Original_ Intent) are more intelligent than the general public but here you are focusing upon an irrelevant and unsolvable subject that could be debated until Jesus returns instead of going after the guilty sons of evil/ugly bitches starting with Bush and his family since his mom is the ugliest and his dad is the evilest bitch on earth.

Voting in FEDERAL ELECTIONS is a sure sign of the voter's STUPIDITY.

Look at what's really going on around you. QE-Infinity - AKA Helicopter Ben's outta duh barn - AKA THERE AIN"T NO FUCKING MONEY. Forget about NO PLANES for a minute and realize that as long as they can print money out of thin air they don't need our taxes. They do that to guarantee that YOU STILL BELIEVE (in their bullshit system), that they still have control over your minds and souls. As long as we continue to accept the current monetary/tax system we are SLAVES and the most vile people upon earth are our masters.

If you've fallen for any of the following horseshit you are definitely too stupid to have any effect upon anyone's freedom.

[They hate our freedoms (what freedom)], [We must bail out the BANKS (banks already have ALL the money)], [If you don't vote, you have no right to complain (when we kill your kids or steal your wealth)], - and how about focusing on NO CANDIDATE instead of no planes. NO CHOICE-AGAIN and again and again.

"In an unjust society, the only place for a just man is prison."

Thoreau

noone222  posted on  2012-10-10   5:08:40 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

FormerLurker will probably be along shortly to inform you of their doctrine that there's no such thing as MSM complicity concerning 9/11 and the WTC in New York.

I understand what you're saying. I've posted lots of evidence about 9/11 suspects and their linkages that generally get studiously suppressed/dismissed and the focus reset to targeting No Planers instead. The security and intel questions as to why 9/11 happened are important but it is also important to determine how it happened in order for accurate charges to be addressed. The No Planes investigation leads to Black Market trafficking in dual use parts like gyroscopes for guided missiles. Some COINTELPRO-type people are very motivated to undermine research in that direction but Boeing has a known history of over 100 such Arms Export Control Act violations. Thanks in advance for whatever patience you can muster through these issues.

Edited punctuation and sentence 4 of paragraph 2.

-------

"They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC

GreyLmist  posted on  2012-10-10   5:46:37 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

Americans need to admit that what serves as "our" government is actually destroying everything we hold dear regardless of the finer points of discussion or debate.

All it takes to defeat the FED is a unified resistance. In any other circumstance where we find out we're being cheated - we simply quit. Why not quit getting cheated by the FED.

"In an unjust society, the only place for a just man is prison."

Thoreau

noone222  posted on  2012-10-10   6:29:25 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

I agree and was going next to one of your threads to discuss those matters but had to reboot.

-------

"They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC

GreyLmist  posted on  2012-10-10   8:25:06 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

I agree and was going next to one of your threads to discuss those matters but had to reboot.

I'm going to work !

Have a nice day !

"In an unjust society, the only place for a just man is prison."

Thoreau

noone222  posted on  2012-10-10   8:26:24 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

You have a nice day too, noone. See ya later.

-------

"They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC

GreyLmist  posted on  2012-10-10   8:49:14 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

You folks have been debating the planes/no planes issue for over 10 years now. Each of you likely thinks your theory is correct or as near correct as available information will allow. OK, already !!!

Uh, nope. I've never seen any serious person discuss it before here on forum. It wasn't till wudidiz, GreyLmist, and titorite began plastering another 9/11 thread with their "no plane" snake oil several weeks ago that I actually responded with any sort of post pertaining to the possibility of "no planes".

It is absurd to hammer away on such a ridiculous theory where there is no evidence of such, and there are enough facts, scientific data, and historical documentation to nail those who were TRULY involved.

Thing is, the culprits are STILL at large, and another attack killing thousands of Americans could easily take place today, next week, or next month. THAT is why those who were behind 9/11 need to be identified, and the public needs to be informed of the evidence.

Discussing "no planes" only muddies the waters, and discredits legitimate researchers who have actual scientific data PROVING 9/11 was an "inside job".

FormerLurker  posted on  2012-10-10   11:05:05 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

FormerLurker will probably be along shortly to inform you of their doctrine that there's no such thing as MSM complicity concerning 9/11 and the WTC in New York.

You sir are a liar. I've been exposing the 9/11 coverup for 10 years now, which of course the MSM is a part of.

The coverup includes fraudulent video of bin Laden (which has been acknowledged by experts as being fraudulent), parroting of government disinformation without any sort of verification of such claims, non-reporting of critical information (such as the status of those arrested on 9/11 who were found with tons of explosives on the George Washington Bridge) and hit pieces such as that from Popular Mechanics which build straw men and knock them down.

In fact, the "no planes" theory is one of those strawmen, built on a deck of cards any serious researcher could knock down in a second, yet sufficient to make the general pubic think that most if not all 9/11 "truthers" are raving lunatics.

So no, I am not saying the MSM isn't complicit, they ARE complicit in the COVERUP. But that's not to say that they STAGED the 9/11 attacks themselves, and convinced every employee in their control rooms, news rooms, and on the scene, to air fraudulent video live and pretend something was happening which wasn't, while at the same time being complicit in the murder of 3000 Americans.

FormerLurker  posted on  2012-10-10   11:15:51 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

BTW spinster, I never said there was NO PLANE at the Pentagon. I said that whatever it was that hit the Pentagon, it wasn't a Boeing 757. It was SOME sort of aircraft, and there MAY have been a decoy aircraft flying in the general vicinity which WAS an airliner, but I've never said the television networks faked the attacks, yet were involved with the murder of 3000 Americans, such as yourself and fellow travellers.

FormerLurker  posted on  2012-10-10   11:25:02 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

Americans need to admit that what serves as "our" government is actually destroying everything we hold dear regardless of the finer points of discussion or debate.

A valid point.....

I too would like to see less apathy and more activity.... I'm always telling folks at work that they should care more....

____________________________________________________________ . . . The US government has declared civil war on itself. Its lust for war grew so great... Liberty before death. We run , we live, We fight again, till we win. We did not start this fight. We damn sure did not willingly pay our taxes to buy the bullets and drones that shall be used to kill us. We will correct the violations of this rogue nation....our rogue nation. We will fix this because nobody else can. You will work to help me help us all to fix this failure. After you're done educating yourself, Action!!!

titorite  posted on  2012-10-10   15:59:35 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

t is not that I do not think that there were Israelis involved, but that they were not in charge of the Op but just one of the players.

Thing is, they were caught red-handed with tons of explosives in a van on the George Washington Bridge that day, AND they were caught blowing up a truck on King Street in NYC that morning.

And it is obvious this important information has been suppressed intentionally.

With six corporate medias in the US all owned by the military industrial complex.

"Satan / Cheney in "08"

tom007  posted on  2012-10-10   16:26:12 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

One plane can not be caught on camera flying on different flight paths.

Isn't it amazing what can be done with Photoshop these days?

The "no-planes" does not pass the smell test. There is too much independent footage, too many witnesses, and it would simply be technologically more advanced and complicated than I credit the gooburmunt with.

No, the planes did not bring down the buildings, but the combination of internal demolition charges (nano-thermites and possibly a micro-nuke or two) along with some type of microwave or particle beam better accounts for the observed phenomena - particularly in terms of the microfine concrete dust.

No, the "no planes" is planted disinformation - of that I am pretty well convinced just in terms of logic and known, or even extrapolated, available technology.

Original_Intent  posted on  2012-10-10   18:41:05 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

Outstanding!!!

christine  posted on  2012-10-10   19:24:28 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

Outstanding!!!

What would be outstanding would be if the "no planers" would give it a rest and stop spamming 9/11 threads with their antics, and stop attacking posters who try to show them why they're wrong.

As I said earlier, it only detracts from the actual documented evidence which nails the true perps.

FormerLurker  posted on  2012-10-10   19:31:47 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

I'm pretty well convinced that dismissive opinions like yours on the issue are not based on evidentiary research but narrative bias.

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"They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC

GreyLmist  posted on  2012-10-10   19:37:59 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

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