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Dear Horse, which one of your posts has the Deep State so spun up that's causing 4um to run slow?

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9/11
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Title: A Brief Summary: WTC Destruction & High Temperature Aftermath: ONLY Nuclear Bombs and the China Syndrome Fit All the Evidence
Source: [None]
URL Source: [None]
Published: Oct 23, 2012
Author: The Anonymous Physicist
Post Date: 2012-11-03 10:28:04 by wudidiz
Ping List: *9-11*     Subscribe to *9-11*
Keywords: None
Views: 2131
Comments: 68

Thursday, October 23, 2008

A Brief Summary: WTC Destruction & High Temperature Aftermath: ONLY Nuclear Bombs and the China Syndrome Fit All the Evidence

NOTE: PLEASE DISSEMINATE THIS DEFINITIVE SUMMARY ON THE NUKING OF THE WTC AS WIDELY AS POSSIBLE!

by The Anonymous Physicist

In attempting to ascertain what caused the destruction of the WTC on 9/11/01, and the great heat and molten metal observed for up to six months afterward, one must account for ALL the phenomena involved in WTC destruction, and the aftermath-- and not just one or two factors. Only nuclear bombs and the resulting China Syndrome can account for ALL phenomena observed. The overview and numerous supporting articles on the nuclear destruction of the WTC are here: wtcdemolition.blogspot.com But, at the outset, we should realize that there is an abundance of evidence that the O.C.T. (Official Conspiracy Theory) is quite bogus. For example, sworn testimony from firemen/responders contains their witnessing of loud explosions from the onset of tower destruction. This alone destroys the OCT of gravity-driven, progressive collapse.

A brief summary of the nuclear aspects now follows.

1. First, low yield nukes (mini-nukes or micro-nukes) are a proven fact that the U.S Govt has admitted to since the 1950’s with their Davey Crocket rifle, and more recently with a physicist’s testimony to Congress. It is also documented fact that since the 1960’s, and Project Plowshare, low radiation nukes-- and later neutron bombs-- have been available, and were planned for excavation projects and such. My “many small nukes” WTC hypothesis indicates that numerous low yield nukes went off INSIDE (near the center of) the towers. They vaporized anything near them (via million degree temperatures and/or high neutron flux), but the yield of these micro-nukes was deliberately small enough not to vaporize the outer structure. This also ensured that any radiation was contained during detonation. And Plowshare, and neutron bombs, prove low radiation nukes have been available for decades.

2. MASSIVE EVIDENCE of ELECTROMAGNETIC PULSES (EMP) FROM NUKES. This includes the eyewitness, sworn testimony of EMT responder, Patricia Ondrovic (and others). She reported that as WTC1 was beginning to be destroyed, she saw flickering lights in WTC6 lobby where she tried to enter, but was stopped. And just outside at that time, cars caught fire without any visible reason, and one then had its car door explode off of it; and the door hit and injured her as she began to flee the area. Exactly how EMP from nukes did all this is explained here, along with other evidence of EMP during tower destruction from nuclear bombs.

3. DUST PARTICLE SIZE WAS LESS THAN 2.5 MICRONS-- & LIED ABOUT by the Gov’t’s main OCT (Official “Collapse” Theory) engineer/author. You can think of a mortar and pestle, and grinding something large into smaller and smaller pieces. It takes more and more energy input to yield smaller and smaller pieces. A nuclear bomb is known to yield particle sizes down to 10 nanometers. (1 nanometer is 1 billionth of a meter). And Govt scientists had equipment to analyze the WTC dust down to 10-nanometer size, if they wanted to, and should have. Unless they did, and have refused to release this. What they (the U.S. Geological Survey scientists) did was lump together all dust sizes less than 2.5 microns and released this data. (A micron is 1 millionth of a meter, and a thousand times larger than 1 nanometer). Nonetheless, the Govt’s main engineer/author, Z.P. Bazant, numerous times wrote papers that claimed that 10 microns was the smallest sized particles created during WTC destruction, and later collected by USGS scientists. For years he did not cite the work that showed, this. Last year he did cite a reference, and it led back to the 2.5 micron study, NOT to the 10 microns he claimed as the smallest dust particle size! So he flat out committed fraud here. He had to do this as his bogus papers claim that the gravitational potential energy (height times weight) of the towers accounted for the energy needed to create the smallest dust particle size. And there isn’t enough energy from his theory to account for 2.5 micron size dust, let alone the much smaller dust sizes that the USGS did not ascertain or release! The bogus physics and math from Bazant and others is here.

4. MELTED, HANGING SKIN WITHOUT FIRE was reported by at least 4 known WTC survivors. This includes WTC worker Felipe David, whose own words state this occurred without fire, but his story when told by another, has “fire” added. There are also two women who reported (on the “Larry King Show”) that a similar thing happened to them, and they don’t know why, because they too were not in any fire. And there is also a security guard with a similar report. The security guard and Felipe David had this happen to them in the lobby and the sub-basement area of WTC1 respectively. Outside the towers, firemen/responders also felt great heat on their skin without being near any fire DURING TOWER DESTRUCTION. Only the thermal rays of a nuclear bomb can account for this. They go out the farthest when a nuke goes off. And hanging skin was a common occurrence in Hiroshima survivors. Note that the outside firemen feeling heat on their skin (without fire near them) also disproves “DEW”, as they are NOT in the towers nor right under them either, and thus if “directed energy beams did it”, and these must be coherent, they would not diverge and cause heat far from their target! So no “DEW” was involved.

5. SUB-BASEMENT LEVEL, 50-TON STEEL PRESS & HEAVY DOOR VAPORIZED. At the same time as Felipe David’s nightmare was unfolding, and also in the sub-basement, WTC engineer Mike Pecoraro reports going up a level and seeing that a sub-basement level was in shambles and was “just gone.” Also he states a 50-ton press has also been apparently vaporized, and a 300 pound steel/concrete door has just been left shriveled up like foil. The only things that could do this are the multi-million degree temperatures, and neutron bombardment, from a nuclear bomb. Coupling this with the four survivors who had melted, hanging skin at this same time, we have evidence of blast, high temperatures, neutron bombardment and thermal rays-- all virtual proof of nuclear bomb use.

6. HEAT GENERATION AT THE WTC FOR UP TO 6 MONTHS AFTER 9/11- -THE CHINA SYNDROME AFTERMATH (CSA) (see http://wtc-chinasyndrome.blogspot.com) No heat “lingers” for weeks and months, not alleged jet fuel, not alleged thermite (which would have been used up either in minutes or hours--or during its use as an explosive). We have the documented, witnessed, and well photographed and videotaped great heat and molten metal for weeks, and indeed for up to six months underground at the WTC-- until all radioactive fission fragments were carted away. No heat lingers for that long; this could only have been heat GENERATION. The evidence of great heat throughout much of the rubble pile and even higher temperatures underneath the two towers and WTC7 is massive. It included melted firemen’s boots, even dogs had to wear special boots, a mass of congealed bullets in WTC6 going off weeks later from heat, and many photos of steam emanation from the continual water hosing of the “hotspots” all around the WTC. The China Syndrome HAD TO ARISE because each of the numerous small nukes used up only 1-6% of its fissile material-- which is standard for nukes. The remainder was then available as radioactive fragments, releasing great heat for a long time (until removed), as the half-life of Uranium 235 is 700 million years. And it is likely that there were numerous, redundant nukes employed, and the phenomena of "fratricided" and fizzled nukes may also have occurred as these are common with nuclear detonations. These effects likely further exacerbated the China Syndrome. The radioactive fragments were somewhat dispersed throughout the rubble pile, and in greatest concentration underneath the towers and WTC7-- where water and sand treatments could not readily be employed. Note that the alleged Tritium finding that the Govt released, may be a red herring to fool people to look for top-secret unknown types of nukes, which couldn’t have led to the CSA, which is what clearly occurred. The ludicrous lying (“there never was any heat during or after WTC destruction”) or the poor attempts to create new laws of chemistry and physics by alleged 9/11truthers (“super nanocomposite thermite burns forever”) only shows how desperate the Govt is to hide the China Syndrome Aftermath.

7. THE MISSING PEOPLE, FURNITURE, steel & other contents of the towers. Destruction of the towers vaporized many of the nearly 3,000 people who died, as well as much furniture, steel and other building contents. The medical examiner was unable to find or utilize any strands of DNA for over 1100 people. The rubble pile from the two towers was only a couple of stories high when it should have been several times higher from a “collapse,” or even a conventional demolition. There is much missing mass from the “extraordinarily high temperatures” as fire engineering Professor Barnett declared after examining vaporized steel, that occurred during tower/WTC7 destruction. Nukes vaporize matter near their hypocenter. Thermite, thermobarics, etc. DO NOT. Contrary to what some claim, neither thermite nor thermobarics could vaporize the missing people, furniture, steel and other contents, as detailed here.

8. CLASSICAL GOV’T DISINFO METHODS ENSUED whereby their agents put out supposedly “alternative theories” involving alleged “secret, new technologies” that are either evidence-free and/or impossible. Space Beams/DEW (Directed Energy Weapons), or ludicrous “super nanocomposite thermite burns forever” theories were created by the intel agencies to cover up the nuking of the WTC, and the China Syndrome Aftermath. (Thermite cools off in minutes or hours.) These “theories” desperately try to claim new phenomena or new laws of physics and chemistry--as does the 9/11 Commission’s ludicrous “findings.”

9. More now on the issue of Radiation: The #1 item above showed that the Govt has had mini-nukes, and micro-nukes for decades, and that low-radiation yielding nukes have also been around for decades as well. On the other hand, the great heat and molten metal at, and under, the WTC for up to six months after 9/11, indicates the existence of the China Syndrome Aftermath at the WTC; whereby many responders and Metro New York residents may have been exposed to some radiation from radioactive fission fragments that resulted from the use of the many micro-nukes. We have much indirect evidence of the effects of radiation poisoning among the 40,000 responders who were at “Ground Zero” in the weeks and months afterwards. There have been hundreds of reported cases of blood, lymph and thyroid cancers among responders. These types of cancers frequently arise from radiation exposure, and are much less likely (unlike lung diseases) to arise from inhalation of toxins. Also, the teeth and hair falling out reported by several responders are also standard illnesses from radiation poisoning. These responders’ doctors and lawyers are not telling these people that radiation may have caused their illnesses, because the China Syndrome Aftermath remains one of the Govt’s most closely guarded secrets. However, we can see that the Govt itself was well aware of what it had caused! Standard radiation-lowering methods were employed beginning the very next morning-- 9/12/01! These included water dilution/hosing down and sand/earth covering (and subsequent removal of this sand/earth) of the rubble pile. These procedures continued for weeks and months precisely because the rubble pile, and undergound areas, were replete with radioactive fission fragments.

There is some general information on radiation sources that needs elucidation. Due to absorption and other factors, radiation levels can go down quickly-- unless radioactive fragments (radionuclides) are released to the environment. Unless one is close (like Felipe David, who appears to have received thermal radiation, and not ionizing radiation)-- or the radiation is very intense-- enough distance/air or most materials, will stop most forms of radiation. This assumes one does not inhale or ingest radioactive particles or radionuclides. The underground WTC areas-- which likely had the highest radiation yields (and also heat)-- were off limits to all but a few responders. Also, as Hiroshima studies indicated, it took decades for many cancers and other illnesses to manifest. Note that a Gov’t agency, FEMA, was/is in charge of any radiation data for Ground Zero, and could easily have blocked release of any data that found radiation. The U.S. Gov’t has a long, sordid record of lying about radiation exposure to soldiers and citizens, as noted here when they nuked their own soldiers during “atomic tests”.

Honest people, not in DENIAL, must see the analogy to the Reichstag fire set by the German Nazis, in 1933, in Berlin. This was their seat of almost their entire federal gov’t. And this fire/destruction was used as an excuse to destroy their Constitution, and as an excuse for War on “terrorists,” and then all of Europe. There was one difference with the Nazis, however. They waited till the middle of the night, when there were no inhabitants in the Reichstag building! Of course, that German Gov’t did not admit they did it themselves, but that came out after they lost WWII. If U.S. Govt agencies have certain types of proof that they nuked the WTC, and thus its largest city; does any honest person think these Govt agencies would ever release this data--unless a new Gov’t came about? There is reason to believe that other crucial data such as WTC rubble pile temperature (AVIRIS, 2nd set), and WTC destruction seismic recordings were altered. This physicist hypothesizes that WTC responders AND nearby Metro New York residents and workers, that were exposed either the longest or to certain areas with the “hottest”spots face the risk of getting cancer and other immune disorders from radiation exposure in the years and decades to come. Sadly this will prove the China Syndrome Aftermath in the worst possible way. Private persons and institutions are urged to get and keep statistics on this, as the Gov’t will likely cover this up.

posted by spooked @ 9:30 AM

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#1. To: wudidiz (#0)

I can see some of this being so however...

the paper.

No.. I still can't see a nuclear device being used save for the possibility that one may of been used in the basement to sever the central core at the bottom.

but a nuke , even a small 1/2 kiloton would be over kill....... but we never know.... the 1/8 kiloton micro nuke may of been invented. It's possible.

Still for all the shock waves EMFs... and the amount of paper the flew out of the dust as the towers fell.....

What ever it was can turn cement and metal into dust but for the most part does not seem to directly affect paper.

_______________________________________________________________________________ The US government has declared civil war on itself. Its lust for war grew so great... Liberty before death. We run , we live, We fight again, till we win. We did not start this fight. We damn sure did not willingly pay our taxes to buy the bullets and drones that shall be used to kill us. We will correct the violations of this rogue nation....our rogue nation. We will fix this because nobody else can. You will work to help me help us all to fix this failure. After you're done educating yourself,Take Action!!!

titorite  posted on  2012-11-03   16:51:47 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#2. To: titorite (#1)

What ever it was can turn cement and metal into dust but for the most part does not seem to directly affect paper.

That or magic passports.

Just amazing.

“The most dangerous man to any government is the man who is able to think things out... without regard to the prevailing superstitions and taboos. Almost inevitably he comes to the conclusion that the government he lives under is dishonest, insane, intolerable.” ~ H. L. Mencken

Lod  posted on  2012-11-03   17:18:54 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#3. To: Lod (#2)

The magical passport is even better... it had to escape a plane to find a way to land near the most patriotic citizen it could find.

_______________________________________________________________________________ The US government has declared civil war on itself. Its lust for war grew so great... Liberty before death. We run , we live, We fight again, till we win. We did not start this fight. We damn sure did not willingly pay our taxes to buy the bullets and drones that shall be used to kill us. We will correct the violations of this rogue nation....our rogue nation. We will fix this because nobody else can. You will work to help me help us all to fix this failure. After you're done educating yourself,Take Action!!!

titorite  posted on  2012-11-03   17:24:34 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#4. To: titorite (#3)

Guessing that all the fuel cells were wired to blow on impact, making the survival of a pristine passport odds like a bazillion gazillion to none.

“The most dangerous man to any government is the man who is able to think things out... without regard to the prevailing superstitions and taboos. Almost inevitably he comes to the conclusion that the government he lives under is dishonest, insane, intolerable.” ~ H. L. Mencken

Lod  posted on  2012-11-03   17:47:53 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#5. To: wudidiz (#0)

The Anonymous Physicist

More like the anonymous moron.

God is always good!

RickyJ  posted on  2012-11-03   18:20:33 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#6. To: wudidiz (#0) (Edited)

"China Syndrome" has nothing to do with WTC. It refers to the (theoretical) possibility that a runaway nuclear reactor will generate such incredible heat that it will burn its way through the center of the earth.

A nuclear explosion in NYC - whatever its size or technical details - would be measurable in terms of radiation. There'd also be an Electro-Magnetic Pulse that, in theory, would damage or disrupt electronic equipment. No such thing was detected with Sept 11th - and believe me, a lot of people in NYC have geiger counters and undoubtedly checked them that day.

A few years earlier, some twit tried to argue that the Murrah Building bombing in Oklahoma City must have involved some mini-nuke .... just because normal explosives wouldn't fit his nutty theories, he figured that by stipulating a nuclear explosion he would be able to ignore all the usual laws of physics or plausibility, and claim whatever nonsense he wanted to.

Shoonra  posted on  2012-11-03   19:06:00 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#7. To: RickyJ (#5)

More like the anonymous moron.

What's up brah? Why you shitting on truthers? You got a problem with truth? Are you the cunning con type hoping to keep a secret or some shit? Whats your problem brah? Sup?

_______________________________________________________________________________ The US government has declared civil war on itself. Its lust for war grew so great... Liberty before death. We run , we live, We fight again, till we win. We did not start this fight. We damn sure did not willingly pay our taxes to buy the bullets and drones that shall be used to kill us. We will correct the violations of this rogue nation....our rogue nation. We will fix this because nobody else can. You will work to help me help us all to fix this failure. After you're done educating yourself,Take Action!!!

titorite  posted on  2012-11-03   19:38:58 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#8. To: Shoonra, all (#6) (Edited)

Trust the shill to put every logical coffin nail into an incorrect theory.

If you are not a shill shoonra I apologise..... but I still think your a paid for agent posting to steer us and as always monitoring the conversations.

Good Points though. Color me surprised . Now see here RickyJ shoonra is an agent. You are just inappropriately acting like a but head.

_______________________________________________________________________________ The US government has declared civil war on itself. Its lust for war grew so great... Liberty before death. We run , we live, We fight again, till we win. We did not start this fight. We damn sure did not willingly pay our taxes to buy the bullets and drones that shall be used to kill us. We will correct the violations of this rogue nation....our rogue nation. We will fix this because nobody else can. You will work to help me help us all to fix this failure. After you're done educating yourself,Take Action!!!

titorite  posted on  2012-11-03   19:43:53 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#9. To: Shoonra, RickyJ, tom007 (#8)

I see our 9/11 shillster, titorite, is at it again, accusing his victims of the very thing he is actively up to.


"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2012-11-03   20:51:48 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#10. To: FormerLurker (#9)

I see our 9/11 shillster, titorite, is at it again, accusing his victims of the very thing he is actively up to.

No asshole, I mean she is a real bona-fide air force cyber command government poster.

She is getting a check and doing a job.

You are acting like a prick for free.

_______________________________________________________________________________ The US government has declared civil war on itself. Its lust for war grew so great... Liberty before death. We run , we live, We fight again, till we win. We did not start this fight. We damn sure did not willingly pay our taxes to buy the bullets and drones that shall be used to kill us. We will correct the violations of this rogue nation....our rogue nation. We will fix this because nobody else can. You will work to help me help us all to fix this failure. After you're done educating yourself,Take Action!!!

titorite  posted on  2012-11-03   20:55:35 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#11. To: titorite (#10)

You are acting like a prick for free.

Like I said, you accuse others of the very thing you are actively up to.


"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2012-11-03   21:08:52 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#12. To: FormerLurker (#11)

Like I said, you accuse others of the very thing you are actively up to.

Whatever man. You're all about the last word and suppressing what is not truth to you.

Maybe you were to busy playing captain hero and judging who is a truther and who is to notice the moot in your own eye.

Sigh......

_______________________________________________________________________________ The US government has declared civil war on itself. Its lust for war grew so great... Liberty before death. We run , we live, We fight again, till we win. We did not start this fight. We damn sure did not willingly pay our taxes to buy the bullets and drones that shall be used to kill us. We will correct the violations of this rogue nation....our rogue nation. We will fix this because nobody else can. You will work to help me help us all to fix this failure. After you're done educating yourself,Take Action!!!

titorite  posted on  2012-11-03   23:49:27 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#13. To: titorite (#12)

Again, you project yourself well. I wonder if you're even aware of it, or if you have some sort of deep rooted issue.


"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2012-11-04   0:06:19 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#14. To: wudidiz (#0) (Edited)

Wudidz, get an education before you post any more stories like this. Radiation would be wide spread and could NOT be covered up. There were NO nukes that went off on 9/11 and you really should stop posting such lies if you want to have any credibility whatsoever on this forum.

God is always good!

RickyJ  posted on  2012-11-04   1:28:41 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#15. To: FormerLurker (#13) (Edited)

Again, you project yourself well. I wonder if you're even aware of it, or if you have some sort of deep rooted issue.

It is such a joy to conversate with you about 911. I always love the contributions you make and the new perspectives regarding the event that you offer. I hope you only grow in your education.

_______________________________________________________________________________ The US government has declared civil war on itself. Its lust for war grew so great... Liberty before death. We run , we live, We fight again, till we win. We did not start this fight. We damn sure did not willingly pay our taxes to buy the bullets and drones that shall be used to kill us. We will correct the violations of this rogue nation....our rogue nation. We will fix this because nobody else can. You will work to help me help us all to fix this failure. After you're done educating yourself,Take Action!!!

titorite  posted on  2012-11-04   1:29:09 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#16. To: titorite (#15) (Edited)

It is such a joy to conversate with you about 911. I always love the contributions you make and the new perspectives you offer. I hope you only grow in your education.

What contributions are you making other than pushing 9/11 disinfo and of course calling people names?

God is always good!

RickyJ  posted on  2012-11-04   1:30:56 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#17. To: RickyJ (#16)

What contributions are you making other than pushing 9/11 disinfo and of course calling people names?

Oh I think I am making more contributions than the man who spends his time attempting to suppress knowledge he disagrees with.

If I put the truth out there that should be good enough....

If their is stuff to talk about then their is stuff to talk about.

If you see a need to shit all over somebody else because you disagree with their conclusion then you are merely doing the governments work of suppression for them...

BAD FUCKING JOB!

_______________________________________________________________________________ The US government has declared civil war on itself. Its lust for war grew so great... Liberty before death. We run , we live, We fight again, till we win. We did not start this fight. We damn sure did not willingly pay our taxes to buy the bullets and drones that shall be used to kill us. We will correct the violations of this rogue nation....our rogue nation. We will fix this because nobody else can. You will work to help me help us all to fix this failure. After you're done educating yourself,Take Action!!!

titorite  posted on  2012-11-04   1:35:04 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#18. To: RickyJ (#16)

I mean free speech what????

WHAT THE FUCK IS THAT>!>?!

Fuck Us for talking about shit you don't like masster

_______________________________________________________________________________ The US government has declared civil war on itself. Its lust for war grew so great... Liberty before death. We run , we live, We fight again, till we win. We did not start this fight. We damn sure did not willingly pay our taxes to buy the bullets and drones that shall be used to kill us. We will correct the violations of this rogue nation....our rogue nation. We will fix this because nobody else can. You will work to help me help us all to fix this failure. After you're done educating yourself,Take Action!!!

titorite  posted on  2012-11-04   1:35:40 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#19. To: RickyJ, titorite (#16)

What contributions are you making other than pushing 9/11 disinfo and of course calling people names?

You've seen the photos of the blackened, FDNY apparatus with melted tires and the cars in the same condition.

Do you believe that the FDNY parked too close to open flame, failed to recognize the danger and then allowed their equipment to burn up?

I'd be interested in any explanation for these melted vehicles. The govt has never offered any.

HOUNDDAWG  posted on  2012-11-04   4:56:13 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#20. To: HOUNDDAWG (#19)

I'd be interested in any explanation for these melted vehicles. The govt has never offered any.

Since a nuclear weapon did NOT detonate at the WTC towers, I'd say all available evidence points to the pyroclastic flow of debris that filled the streets after the collapse of each tower.

A pyroclastic flow is a debris cloud that behaves as a fluid, where it flows like water and can reach extremely hot temperatures.


"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2012-11-04   12:28:01 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#21. To: FormerLurker (#20)

A pyroclastic flow is a debris cloud that behaves as a fluid, where it flows like water and can reach extremely hot temperatures.

Right, without equivalent energy to propel it?

You didn't simply neglect to site an example because there aren't any.

HOUNDDAWG  posted on  2012-11-04   13:25:11 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#22. To: HOUNDDAWG (#21)

Right, without equivalent energy to propel it?

You didn't simply neglect to site an example because there aren't any.

The energy was derived from several sources;

A) The mass of the WTC towers being pulverized created heat. This occured from the potential energy of the mass being converted to kinetic energy, and then to heat energy.

B) Heat from the explosives in the structure which demolished the supports.

C) Nano-thermite in the structure, apparently placed there in order to facilitate the collapse. Such nano-thermite would have released huge amounts of heat.

There IS no example of a structure the size of the WTC towers ever collapsing before, so it's hard to come up with a previous example since there IS none which exists.


"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2012-11-04   13:30:30 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#23. To: FormerLurker, 4 (#22)

what melted cars at wtc? rense weighs in -

rense.com/general75/melt.htm

“The most dangerous man to any government is the man who is able to think things out... without regard to the prevailing superstitions and taboos. Almost inevitably he comes to the conclusion that the government he lives under is dishonest, insane, intolerable.” ~ H. L. Mencken

Lod  posted on  2012-11-04   15:19:43 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#24. To: titorite, *9-11* (#1)

the amount of paper the flew out of the dust as the towers fell.....

What ever it was can turn cement and metal into dust but for the most part does not seem to directly affect paper.

This is an excerpt from the link in the article section below: The intense [EMP] electromagnetic [pulse] wave induces a great current in metal (and not in “people or paper”).

2. MASSIVE EVIDENCE of ELECTROMAGNETIC PULSES (EMP) FROM NUKES. This includes the eyewitness, sworn testimony of EMT responder, Patricia Ondrovic (and others). She reported that as WTC1 was beginning to be destroyed, she saw flickering lights in WTC6 lobby where she tried to enter, but was stopped. And just outside at that time, cars caught fire without any visible reason, and one then had its car door explode off of it; and the door hit and injured her as she began to flee the area. Exactly how EMP from nukes did all this is explained here, along with other evidence of EMP during tower destruction from nuclear bombs.

I don't think nukes are the only explanation for EMPs. Could be wrong but do suspect that there might have been metal flakes/fragments mixed in the cement which would make it a conductor of an electro-magnetic pulse as well.

This is another excerpt from the link posted above that is interesting to me because the Towers looked like most of the lights were off in them that day -- as compared to earlier pics and films where they are shown with many lights on:

Pecoraro’s co-worker first saw the light-flickering effects of an EMP

Maybe the lights were turned off at the Towers that morning so as to mask an EMP flicker-effect that might not be explainable in total by the partial damage in the alleged plane impact/fire zones.

Why are all the Lights off throughout the WTC on 9-11 - Let's Roll Forums

In the negatives, the lights on show up [as] small blue blocks. Other then this, all lights seem to be, well, by and large, absent. And make no mistake, the Towers are dark. Hardly any lights on anywhere. Why?

-------

"They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC

GreyLmist  posted on  2012-11-04   15:30:55 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#25. To: HOUNDDAWG (#19)

You've seen the photos of the blackened, FDNY apparatus with melted tires and the cars in the same condition.

Do you believe that the FDNY parked too close to open flame, failed to recognize the danger and then allowed their equipment to burn up?

I'd be interested in any explanation for these melted vehicles. The govt has never offered any.

Their are multiple possibilities.

From looking at all the pictures.

All that paper on the ground could of been ignition sources. Engines left running might of ran hot enough to catch the paper on fire..... which joined the jet fuel in burning at extra hotter than normal tempatures and then burned up the metal and steel of the car engines........ drat I think that thought is a dead end.

The car could of had nano thermite dust land on them but this begs the question why arent any half burnt humans found in photos? or half melted other stuff matching the damage of those cars...

INTERESTING SIDE NOTE

Their is hardly any bolts in any of the steel columns of the WTC left... You will have trouble seeing those bolts in any pic.... Some did survive mind you but once you start looking for those bolts you notice how few survived.

Their are a variety of directed energy weapons these days. Their was a variety available on the day of 911.

The connection between the car engines and the bolts should be obvious to the researchers. Whatever type of energy it was (I suspect microwave) it can vaporize large sections of steel and concrete. God knows what it does to the smaller metal parts. It does not seem to hurt paper though...

Their is one picture I know of that is super freaky to illustrait this freaky stuff....this government using it's worst black arsenal on it's own people .

Fresh in the aftermath with the cloud still dissipating into the air and debris everywhere this ambulances engine block is catching on fire... Concrete dust floods up to its door. It's tires are not flat yet, just covered in dust . THE hood is covered in dust but not on fire. Windows intact. But still the left front side is catching on fire...

Same angle a a few moments later and closer up .

www.dc37.net/news/pep/10_...es/01a_03a_ambulance.jpeg

Same ambulance a little later.

I think the dude in the suit might be the same fellow in shadow in the first pic.

_______________________________________________________________________________ The US government has declared civil war on itself. Its lust for war grew so great... Liberty before death. We run , we live, We fight again, till we win. We did not start this fight. We damn sure did not willingly pay our taxes to buy the bullets and drones that shall be used to kill us. We will correct the violations of this rogue nation....our rogue nation. We will fix this because nobody else can. You will work to help me help us all to fix this failure. After you're done educating yourself,Take Action!!!

titorite  posted on  2012-11-04   15:44:35 ET  (2 images) Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#26. To: FormerLurker (#22)

Nano-thermite in the structure, apparently placed there in order to facilitate the collapse

Oh, right.

That seems plausible.

The rub is, vehicles that were not buried in rubble, liquid or otherwise, were apparently or seemingly microwaved into peeling slag heaps.

And I'm unwilling to rule out any causation based on the assertion that there were plenty of folks with Geiger counters there after the mass murders.

None of my people (trusted sources) were there.

HOUNDDAWG  posted on  2012-11-05   5:42:05 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#27. To: titorite (#25)

Good stuff.

Thanx.

Not easily explained or dismissed.

HOUNDDAWG  posted on  2012-11-05   5:44:38 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#28. To: titorite, *9-11* (#25)

this government using it's worst black arsenal on it's own people .

Other countries have exotic weaponry. The general public scarcely know much about what's in America's unconventional arsenal, let alone what's in those of other countries more secretive. It's possible that the 9/11 New York "spectacular effect" (crazed Manhattan Project lingo) was a pre-war demonstration arranged by the WTC perps with some other foreign power(s) to fast-track the demolishment of our Republic and advance their corporate Empire agendas. Have read that, prior to 9/11, NY vehicle license plates displayed a Statue of Liberty symbol and, afterwards, it was replaced with the imprint: Empire State. An intriguing "coincidence", imo, if so.

-------

"They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC

GreyLmist  posted on  2012-11-05   14:09:16 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#29. To: HOUNDDAWG (#26)

What it comes down to DAWG is that much of the general public still believes 19 "rag heads" with box cutters brought down those towers. It's hard enough to convince them of the fact those towers were brought down with explosives, and that factions within our own government were involved, without plunging into unfounded speculation on exotic weaponry.

There is more than enough scientific and documented evidence to PROVE that the towers didn't come down due to "fires", nor did WTC7 collapse at precisely free fall speed without controlled explosives involved.

Until there is an impartial investigation of ALL the evidence, with subpeona power and authority to criminally charge those involved, we need to focus on what IS provable scientifically. Otherwise, the chances of convincing enough people that our own government had a hand in these attacks are about as good as hitting Powerball.


"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2012-11-05   14:16:08 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#30. To: All, *9-11* (#24)

Could be wrong but do suspect that there might have been metal flakes/fragments mixed in the cement which would make it a conductor of an electro-magnetic pulse as well.

The aluminum cladding on the Towers would also be a conductor and might figure in keeping an electromagnetic pulse focused more on them than the surrounding areas but the burned vehicles indicate that something went awry, if that was the plan.

-------

"They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC

GreyLmist  posted on  2012-11-05   14:26:06 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#31. To: GreyLmist (#24)

Just out of curiosity, what was this EMP needed for?


"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2012-11-05   14:56:01 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#32. To: FormerLurker (#29) (Edited)

What it comes down to DAWG is that much of the general public still believes 19 "rag heads" with box cutters brought down those towers. It's hard enough to convince them of the fact those towers were brought down with explosives, and that factions within our own government were involved, without plunging into unfounded speculation on exotic weaponry.

There is more than enough scientific and documented evidence to PROVE that the towers didn't come down due to "fires", nor did WTC7 collapse at precisely free fall speed without controlled explosives involved.

Until there is an impartial investigation of ALL the evidence, with subpeona power and authority to criminally charge those involved, we need to focus on what IS provable scientifically. Otherwise, the chances of convincing enough people that our own government had a hand in these attacks are about as good as hitting Powerball.

And who do you think you are to appoint yourself the authoritative September Eleventh judge of what should be investigated and what shouldn't?

Sheesh you sound as bad as the government.

Don't research this , Don't pay attention to that.

You'll forgive us all if we ignore you and continue to see how far the rabbit hole goes despite your demands that we do not investigate the aspects you disapprove of......

And for the record , less then half of the US people believe it was 19 rag heads. What people believe is not the issue. What they can do about it is the issue. You can know the truth all day and still tolerate a liar with a gun to your head... and that is what we have in America. A gun to our heads in the form of the police and military. And if nobody takes action then nothing will ever change.

_______________________________________________________________________________ The US government has declared civil war on itself. Its lust for war grew so great... Liberty before death. We run , we live, We fight again, till we win. We did not start this fight. We damn sure did not willingly pay our taxes to buy the bullets and drones that shall be used to kill us. We will correct the violations of this rogue nation....our rogue nation. We will fix this because nobody else can. You will work to help me help us all to fix this failure. After you're done educating yourself,Take Action!!!

titorite  posted on  2012-11-05   15:00:33 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#33. To: titorite (#32) (Edited)

And who do YOU think you are to have free reign over this site, attacking posters as you see fit, and plastering disinformation everywhere?

Really, who the FUCK do you think you are?

You're quickly becoming the yukon of Freedom4um.com


"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2012-11-05   15:42:03 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#34. To: titorite (#32) (Edited)

You lead people on wild goose chases, AWAY from any real hard evidence, distract, disrupt, and overall act like an ass.

Anytime there are valid arguments made, you launch your predictable pattern of attack, trying to dismiss and discredit the person with whom you disagree.

Your ilk is obviously being paid by SOMEONE who is involved in the actual 9/11 attacks themselves, and THAT makes you a co-conspirator.


"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2012-11-05   15:45:10 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#35. To: All, *9-11* (#24)

Why are all the Lights off throughout the WTC on 9-11 - Let's Roll Forums

In the negatives, the lights on show up [as] small blue blocks. Other then this, all lights seem to be, well, by and large, absent. And make no mistake, the Towers are dark. Hardly any lights on anywhere. Why?

Another excerpt: 7 lights on. 5 on what appears to be 41 and then 2 lights on 7 floors below it.

7 floors below the 41st would be the 34th, which alleged WTC janitor/"last survivor out" witness William Rodriguez claims (soon after the 1:19:15 mark of the video, 9 11 Mysteries full length-WTC's were planted with explosives!) claims was empty and hollowed out but, during his 9/11 rescue-search, had heard heavy-equipment moving-noises on it; says no one was supposed to be there, even the elevator didn't stop there, and a special access key was required to open the door there. Following his statement in the video, similar noises with machinery sounds and booming in the weeks before 9/11 were allegedly heard on the 98th floor by Scott Forbes who says he checked once later and saw it empty. He reportedly took the day off on 9/11. Just FYI details regarding possible covert activities still ongoing on the 34th floor even after the alleged plane strike and probable demolition preps of some sort in the buildig before 9/11.

-------

"They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC

GreyLmist  posted on  2012-11-05   15:52:48 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#36. To: FormerLurker (#33) (Edited)

And who do YOU think you are to have free reign over this site, attacking posters as you see fit, and plastering disinformation everywhere?

Really, who the FUCK do you think you are?

You're quickly becoming the yukon of Freedom4um.com

You lead people on wild goose chases, AWAY from any real hard evidence, distract, disrupt, and overall act like an ass.

Anytime there are valid arguments made, you launch your predictable pattern of attack, trying to dismiss and discredit the person with whom you disagree.

Your ilk is obviously being paid by SOMEONE who is involved in the actual 9/11 attacks themselves, and THAT makes you a co-conspirator.

Who am I? I am Titorite. Really. As for me being the Yukon ..... thats rubbish. And you know it.

You are just looking to upset me.

Thats what the ATF or FBI or CIA would do. The government would find emotional weak points someone they wanted to hush and they would exploit those weaknesses to the best of their abilities. You are invoking The name calling just to get me posting from a less rational and more emotional point of view.

Shame on you.

Also I do not lead people on wild goose chases, nor do I tell others that they should not study this or ignore that. Unlike you Lurker, I do not attempt to manipulate or control what others research and discuss. I do not believe in suppressing.

And your last line....

What makes it so obvious I am paid by someone who was involved?

I mean that is a huge , some might even say irrational, jump of conclusions.

SO I am a co-conspirator eh? I guess I better send that cleaning crew to take care you for blowing my cover.

sigh.

This is what disinformation tactics lead too......thats why I loath and discourage using them...... Are we talking about 911? no. we are squabbling back and forth because you don't like what someone has to say. You think my speech should be restricted, my account banned, and probably worse.... The only way for you to win is to continually distract the topics or turn the conversation to the subject of the posters themselves rather than the original subject matter posted. But in behaving like that the side your helping win is not the one you want to be on.

_______________________________________________________________________________ The US government has declared civil war on itself. Its lust for war grew so great... Liberty before death. We run , we live, We fight again, till we win. We did not start this fight. We damn sure did not willingly pay our taxes to buy the bullets and drones that shall be used to kill us. We will correct the violations of this rogue nation....our rogue nation. We will fix this because nobody else can. You will work to help me help us all to fix this failure. After you're done educating yourself,Take Action!!!

titorite  posted on  2012-11-05   16:38:21 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#37. To: FormerLurker (#29)

What it comes down to DAWG is that much of the general public still believes 19 "rag heads" with box cutters brought down those towers. It's hard enough to convince them of the fact those towers were brought down with explosives, and that factions within our own government were involved, without plunging into unfounded speculation on exotic weaponry.

There is more than enough scientific and documented evidence to PROVE that the towers didn't come down due to "fires", nor did WTC7 collapse at precisely free fall speed without controlled explosives involved.

Until there is an impartial investigation of ALL the evidence, with subpeona power and authority to criminally charge those involved, we need to focus on what IS provable scientifically. Otherwise, the chances of convincing enough people that our own government had a hand in these attacks are about as good as hitting Powerball.

Sadly, you're right.

And I just don't see it happening, now that we're a nation of sold out men instead of laws.

HOUNDDAWG  posted on  2012-11-05   17:01:22 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#38. To: HOUNDDAWG, 4 (#37)

...we're a nation of sold out men instead of laws.

Absolutely key to our entire CF.

“The most dangerous man to any government is the man who is able to think things out... without regard to the prevailing superstitions and taboos. Almost inevitably he comes to the conclusion that the government he lives under is dishonest, insane, intolerable.” ~ H. L. Mencken

Lod  posted on  2012-11-05   17:22:29 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#39. To: titorite (#36)

I know if I put you on bozo you'd continue to snipe at me, being the cowardly little snit you are.

For now, I'll just ignore you.


"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2012-11-05   17:24:14 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#40. To: FormerLurker, titorite, 4 (#39)

Old saying, having the last word is not all that it's cracked up to be.

Peace.

“The most dangerous man to any government is the man who is able to think things out... without regard to the prevailing superstitions and taboos. Almost inevitably he comes to the conclusion that the government he lives under is dishonest, insane, intolerable.” ~ H. L. Mencken

Lod  posted on  2012-11-05   17:42:03 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  



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