[Home]  [Headlines]  [Latest Articles]  [Latest Comments]  [Post]  [Sign-in]  [Mail]  [Setup]  [Help] 

Status: Not Logged In; Sign In

Joe Rogan on Tucker Carlson and Ukraine Aid

Joe Rogan on 62 year-old soldier with one arm, one eye

Jordan Peterson On China's Social Credit Controls

Senator Kennedy Exposes Bad Jusge

Jewish Land Grab

Trump Taps Dr. Marty Makary, Fierce Opponent of COVID Vaccine Mandates, as New FDA Commissioner

Recovering J6 Prisoner James Grant, Tells-All About Bidens J6 Torture Chamber, Needs Immediate Help After Release

AOC: Keeping Men Out Of Womens Bathrooms Is Endangering Women

What Donald Trump Has Said About JFK's Assassination

Horse steals content from Sara Fischer and Sophia Cai and pretends he is the author

Horse steals content from Jonas E. Alexis and claims it as his own.

Trump expected to shake up White House briefing room

Ukrainians have stolen up to half of US aid ex-Polish deputy minister

Gaza doctor raped, tortured to death in Israeli custody, new report reveals

German Lutheran Church Bans AfD Members From Committees, Calls Party 'Anti-Human'

Berlin Teachers Sound Alarm Over Educational Crisis Caused By Multiculturalism

Trump Hosts Secret Global Peace Summit at Mar-a-Lago!

Heat Is Radiating From A Huge Mass Under The Moon

Elon Musk Delivers a Telling Response When Donald Trump Jr. Suggests

FBI recovers funds for victims of scammed banker

Mark Felton: Can Russia Attack Britain?

Notre Dame Apologizes After Telling Hockey Fans Not To Wear Green, Shamrocks, 'Fighting Irish'

Dear Horse, which one of your posts has the Deep State so spun up that's causing 4um to run slow?

Bomb Cyclone Pacific Northwest

Death Certificates Reveal FBI 'Revised' Murder Stats Still Bogus

A $110B bubble on $500M earnings. History warns: Bubbles always burst.

Joy Behar says people like their show because they tell the truth, unlike "dragon believer" Joe Rogan.

Male Passenger Disappointed After Another Flight Ends Without A Stewardess Frantically Asking If Anyone Can Land The Plane

Could the Rapid Growth of AI Boost Gold Demand?

LOOK AT MY ASS!


Religion
See other Religion Articles

Title: I Love the King James Bible
Source: [None]
URL Source: [None]
Published: Nov 15, 2012
Author: Pablo
Post Date: 2012-11-15 16:55:11 by pablo
Keywords: None
Views: 702
Comments: 41

I have mentioned this before. I will now explain why I do not use the King James Bible, usually. It is really quite simple.

History of English Versions by Benjamin Wilson

The first English version of the New Testament was that made by John Wiclif, or Wycliffe, about the year 1367. It was translated from the Latin Bible, verbatim, without any regard to the idiom of the languages. Though this version was first in point of time, no part of it was printed before the year 1731.

Tyndale's translation was published in 1526, either at Antwerp or Hamburg. It is commonly said that Tyndale translated from the Greek, but he never published it to be so on any title page of his Testament. One edition, not published by him, has this title -- "The Newe Testament, dylygently corrected and compared with the Greke, by Willyam Tyndale, and fynesshed in the yere of oure Lorde God, A. M. D. and xxxiiij. in the moneth of Nouember." It is evident he only translated from the Latin Vulgate.

Coverdale published the whole Bible in English. in the year 1535. He "followed his interpreters," and adopted Tyndale's version with the exception of a few alterations.

MATTHEW'S BIBLE was only Tyndale and Coverdale's published under the feigned name of Thomas Matthew.

HOLLYBUSHE'S NEW TESTAMENT was printed in 1538, "both in Latin and English, after the Vulgate text," to which Coverdale prefixed a dedication to Henry VIII.

THE GREAT BIBLE, published in 1539, purported to be "translated after the veryte of the Hebrue and Greke textes," but it is certain that it was only a revision of Matthew's, with a few small alterations. It was named "the Great Bible," because of its large size.

CRANMERE'S BIBLE, published in 1540, was essentially the the same as the Great Bible, but took his name on account of a few corrections which he made in it.

THE GENEVA BIBLE was published at Geneva in 1560. The New Testament in 1557. Coverdale was one of the Geneva brethren who issued it.

THE BISHOP'S BIBLE was a revisal of the English Bible, made by the bishops and compared with the originals. It was published in 1568.

THE DOUAY BIBLE appeared in 1609, and was translated from the authentical Latin, or Vulgate.

KING JAMES BIBLE, or the Authorized Version, was published in 1611. In the year 1604, forty-seven persons learned in the languages were appointed to revise the translation then in use. They were ordered to use the Bishop's Bible for the basis of the new version, and to alter it as little as the original would allow : but if the prior translations of Tyndale, Coverdale, Matthew, Cranmer or Whitchurch, and the Geneva edition agreed better with the text, to adopt the same. This translation was perhaps the best that could be made at the time, and if it had not been published by kingly authority, it would not now be venerated by English and American protestants, as though it had come direct from God. It has been convicted of containing over 20,000 errors. Nearly 700 Greek MSS. are now known, and some of them very ancient : whereas the translators of the common version had only the advantage of some 8 MSS. none of which was earlier than the tenth century.

TO THE READER.

THAT "All Scripture, divinely inspired, is profitable, for Teaching, for Conviction, for Correction, for that Instruction which is in Righteousness," is the truthful testimony of the Sacred Writings about themselves. We rejoice to express our conviction that the Word of God was perfect and infallible as it emanated from those holy men of old, the Prophets and Apostles, who "spoke, being moved by the Holy Spirit." As a revelation of Jehovah's will to the human race, it was requisite that it should be an unerring guide. Amid the ever conflicting strife of human opinions, and the endless diversity of thought, we needed such a standard, to lead us safely through the perplexing problems of life, to counsel us under all circumstances, to reveal the will of our Heavenly Parent, and to lift on high a celestial light, which streaming through the thick darkness that broods around, shall guide the feet of his erring and bewildered children to their loving Father's home. We needed therefore a testimony upon which to repose our faith and hope, free from all error, immutable, and harmonious in all its details -- something to tell us how to escape from the evils of the present, and attain to a glorious future. "With reverence and joy we acknowledge The Sacred Writings to be such, as they were originally dictated by the Holy Spirit. How important then that they should be correctly read and understood !

But can it be fairly said that such is the case with our present English Version? We opine not. Though freely acknowledging that it is sufficiently plain to teach men the social and religious duties of life, and the path to Immortality, yet it is a notable fact that King James' Translation is far from being a faithful reflection of the mind of the Spirit, as contained in the Original Greek in which the books of the New Testament were written. There are some thousands of words which are either mistranslated, or too obscurely rendered; besides others which are now obsolete, through improvement in the language. Besides this, it has been too highly colored in many places with the party ideas and opinions of those who made it, to be worthy of full and implicit confidence being placed in it as a genuine record. In the words of Dr. Macknight, "it was made a little too complaisant to the King, in favoring his notions of predestination. election, witchcraft, familiar spirits, and kingly rights, and these it is probable were also the translators' opinions. That their translation is partial, speaking the language of, and giving authority to one sect." And according to Dr. Gell, it was wrested and partial, " and only adapted to one sect ;" but he imputes this, not to the translators, but to those who employed them, for even some of the translators complained that they could not follow their own judgment in the matter, but were restrained by "reasons of state."

The Version in common use will appear more imperfect still, when the fact is known, that it was not a translation from the Original, but merely a revision of the Versions then in use. This is evident from the following directions given by King James to the translators, viz.: "The Bishops' Bible to be followed, and altered as little as the Original will permit. And these translations to be used when they agree better with the text than the Bishops' Bible -- namely, Tyndale's, Matthew's, Coverdale's, Whitchurch's, Geneva." None of these were made from the Original Greek, but only compare with it -- being all translated from the Vulgate Latin. Hence it follows, that the authorized version is simply a revision of the Vulgate. And the Greek Text, with which it was compared, was compiled from Eight MSS. only, all of which were written since the tenth century, and are now considered of comparatively slight authority. The " Textua Receptus," or Received Greek Text, was made from these MSS., and is now proved to be the very worst Greek Text extant, in a printed form.

And there was only one MSS. for the Book of Revelation, and part of that wanting, which was supplied by translating the Latin of the Vulgate into Greek ! Since the publication of the " Textus Rcccptus," and the Common Version, some 600 MSS. have been discovered, some of which are very ancient, and very valuable. The best and oldest of these is one marked B., Cod. Vaticanus, No. 1209, of the fourth and fifth centuries. The second marked A., Cod. Alexandrinus, of the fifth century. The third marked C, Cod. Fphrem., about the fifth century, and the fourth, marked D., Cod. Cantabujiensis, of the seventh century.

Besides valuable assistance from ancient MSS., the DIAGLOTT has obtained material aid from the labors of many eminent Biblical Critics and Translators. Among these may be mentioned, -- Mill, Wetstein, Griesbach, Scholz, Lachmnnn, Tischendorf, Tittman, Tregelles, Doddridge. Macknight, Campbell, Koine, Middleton, Clark, Wakefield, Bloomfield, Thompson, Murdock, Kneeland, Boothroyd. Conquest, Sharpe, Gaussen. Turnbull, Trench, &c., &c.

Should any person doubt the propriety of the Translation, in any particular part, let him not hastily censure or condemn till he has compared it carefully with the various authorities on which it is based; and even should he see reason to differ in some respects, a correct Greek Text is given, so that the Original may be always appealed to in cases of doubt. However imperfect the Translation may be considered by the Critic it cannot adulterate the Original.


Yes, I love the King James Bible, BIT, that is only because I think that the men who did that translation did the best that they could under the conditions that they worked under, working with an earthly king who had political considerations first in mind, rather than holding as close as possible to the truth.

That being said, I have no such kind regards for those who simply reprint those known errors in new copies/translations of the Bible. And they know!!

You can find lists of spurious Bible verses that are passed around by those who use the King James Bible, so that they know what versus to cross out in their own copies. Yet, these same errors are reprinted time and again, just to make money. Is it correct to continue to furnish errors to people? Well, that is a decision that you must make.

One thing I will warn you about. New versions of the Bible, when they come out, always claim that they 'are diligently compared with the originals.' This is true, but the only originals that they will use are the same 8 originals that were used for the King James Version. None of these date from before the 10th century, AND, they know that at least one of them is a false copy prepared by the Catholic church in order to fortify the belief in the trinity. That false copy is in a museum in Ireland, and everyone knows about it, except, of course, the people who buy Bibles. You should also carefully note that ALL 8 of those MSS were under the control of the Catholic church for centuries. Is there any wonder that there are errors in them?!

Please, do your own research. Prove to yourself that what you read and trust is trustworthy. This is our obligation!

Galatians 6:5 King James Version (KJV) For every man shall bear his own burden.

No one can do this for you, or, make this decision for you. It is strictly YOUR decision. Your responsibility. Please make the effort.


Poster Comment:

Please remember, our Heavenly Father is love. Should we be any less?

Post Comment   Private Reply   Ignore Thread  


TopPage UpFull ThreadPage DownBottom/Latest

Begin Trace Mode for Comment # 35.

#2. To: pablo, all (#0)

Great. Another whacko here to tell everyone how his/her interpretation of of the Christian book of fairy tales is the correct one and why the other 34000+ Christian cults are wrong and will burn in hell.

Yawn.

F.A. Hayek Fan  posted on  2012-11-15   17:32:46 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#7. To: F.A. Hayek Fan (#2)

Great. Another whacko here to tell everyone how his/her interpretation of of the Christian book of fairy tales is the correct one and why the other 34000+ Christian cults are wrong and will burn in hell.

Yawn.

Yes, it does get tedious. Lots of heat and little light.

You can translate these books into any language you like, but the contradictions remain. Enough to keep Christians slicing and dicing one another forever.

randge  posted on  2012-11-15   19:40:34 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#10. To: randge (#7)

but the contradictions remain.

Show me one, please, cause I have studied it rather extensively, and I have never found one..... once I took man's teachings/thinking out of the mix.

pablo  posted on  2012-11-15   23:34:01 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#33. To: pablo (#10) (Edited)

but the contradictions remain.

Show me one, please, cause I have studied it rather extensively, and I have never found one..... once I took man's teachings/thinking out of the mix.

I love the King James too. It is my favorite, but I like to see the other interpretations as well. When in doubt, I always check the concordance as well.

I showed you one contradiction on another site, where the parents of Samson asked the "Angel" [the preincarnate Jesus] what His name was. And He said why do you ask my name ... it is Wonderful, the same Hebrew word used for "wonderful", as in Isaiah 9:6 For unto us a child is born....and His name shall be called Wonderful,...the Mighty God, the Everlasting Father, the Prince of Peace.

King James translates Wonderful as "secret". Why? Seeing Samson was of the apostate Tribe of Dan, I suspect they might pull that one out again as the "eneffable name" of Judeo-Freemasonry. Look up "Jesuits in Great Britain" at reformation.org. Turns out, James' REAL father was a Jesuit that James' mother was consorting with. The Jesuits are crypto-Jews. James, says this article, was a closet Catholic trying to make Britain Catholic again. Interesting if true, wouldn't you say?

Thank God for Rev. Hunt [The Enduring Legacy of the First Landing wnd.com]. They were told to set up camp far inland [later called Jamestown after the king]. Rev. Hunt and his little mustard seed of people got out before then, and claimed America for Christ [Psalm 2:6, Micah 4:1-2, Ezekiel 34:11-13/John 10 etc etc etc], at Cape Henry, and symbolically, the spot is imprisoned in a military fort there. Zechariah 2: Deliver thyself O Zion, dwelling with the daughter of Babylon. Micah 4:13 Arise and thresh....

AllTheKings'HorsesWontDoIt  posted on  2012-11-17   9:08:07 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#34. To: AllTheKings'HorsesWontDoIt (#33) (Edited)

James, says this article, was a closet Catholic trying to make Britain Catholic again. Interesting if true, wouldn't you say?

We know of course that James I governed Britain as a protestant king independently of Rome, and we can see that the profession below wherein James calls himself a catholic Christian is to be taken in a general, historical sense.

However, I am curious to know, ATKHWDI, since you are more erudite in these matters than I am, can you deduce these big C, Catholic leanings from his writings??

James I and VI: from Anglicanism, 1616

I will never be ashamed to render an accompt of my profession and of that hope that is in me, as the Apostle prescribeth. I am such a CATHOLIC CHRISTIAN as believeth the three Creeds, that of the Apostles, that of the Council of Nice, and that of Athanasius, the two latter being paraphrases to the former. And I believe them in that sense as the ancient Fathers and Councils that made them did understand them, to which three Creeds all the ministers of England do subscribe at their Ordination. And I also acknowledge for Orthodox all those other forms of Creeds that either were devised by Councils or particular Fathers, against such particular heresies as most reigned in their times.

I reverence and admit the Four First General Councils as Catholic and Orthodox. And the said Four General Councils are acknowledged by our Acts of Parliament, and received for orthodox by our Church.

As for the Fathers, I reverence them as much and more than the Jesuits do, and as much as themselves ever craved. For whatever the Fathers for the first five hundred years did with an unanime consent agree upon, to be believed as a necessary point of salvation, I either will believe it also, or at least will be humbly silent, not taking upon me to condemn the same. But for every private Father's opinion, it binds not my conscience more than Bellarmine's, every one of the Fathers usually contradicting others. I will therefore in that case follow St. Augustine's rule in judging of their opinions as I find them agree with the Scriptures. What I find agreeable thereto I will gladly embrace. What is otherwise I will (with their reverence) reject.

As for the Scriptures, no man doubteth I will believe them. But even for the Apocrypha, I hold them in the same accompt that the Ancients did. They are still printed and bound with our Bibles, and publicly read in our churches. I reverence them as the writings of holy and good men. But since they are not found in the Canon, we accompt them to be secundae lectionis or ordinis (which is Bellarmine's own distinction) and therefore not sufficient whereupon alone to ground any Article of Faith, except it be confirmed by some other place of Canonical Scripture; concluding this point with Rufinus (who is no Novelist, I hope) that the Apocryphal books were by the Fathers permitted to be read, not for confirmation of doctrine, but only for instruction of the people.

As for the Saints departed, I honour their memory, and in honour of them do we in our Church observe the days of so many of them as the Scripture doth canonize for saints; but I am loath to believe all the tales of the legended saints.

And first for the Blessed Virgin Mary, I yield her that which the Angel Gabriel pronounced of her, and which in her Canticle she prophecied of herself, that is, That she is blessed among women, and That all generations shall call her blessed. I reverence her as the Mother of Christ, of whom our Saviour took His flesh, and so the Mother of God, since the Divinity and Humanity of Christ are inseparable. And I freely confess that she is in glory both above angels and men, her own Son (that is both God and man) only excepted. But I dare not mock her, and blaspheme against God, calling her not only Diva but Dea, and praying her to command and control her Son, Who is her God and her Saviour. Nor yet not, I think, that she hath no other thing to do in Heaven than to hear every idle man's suit and busy herself in their errands, whiles requesting, whiles commanding her Son, whiles coming down to kiss and make love with priests, and whiles disputing and brawling with devils. In Heaven she is in eternal glory and joy, never to be interrupted with any worldly business; and there I leave her with her blessed Son, our Saviour and hers, in eternal felicity.

As for prayer to Saints, Christ, I am sure, hath commanded us to come all to Him that are loaden with sin, and He will relieve us; and St. Paul hath forbidden us to worship angels, or to use any such voluntary worship, that hath a shew of humility in that it spareth not the flesh. But what warrant we have to have recourse unto these Dii Penates or Tutelares, these Courtiers of God, I know not; I remit that to these philosophical Neoteric Divines. It satisfieth me to pray to God through Christ, as I am commanded, which I am sure must be the safest way; and 1 am sure the safest way is the best way in points of salvation. But if the Romish Church hath coined new Articles of Faith, never heard of in the first 500 years after Christ, 1 hope 1 shall never be condemned for an heretic, for not being a Novelist. Such are the Private Masses, where the Priest playeth the part both of the Priest and of the People. And such are the Amputation of the one half of the Sacrament from the people; the Transubstantiation, Elevation for Adoration, and Circumportation in procession of the Sacrament; the Works of Supererogation, rightly named Thesaurus Ecclesiae; the Baptizing of Bells and a thousand other tricks, but above all, the Worshipping of Images. If my faith be weak in these, I confess I had rather believe too little than too much. And yet since I believe as much as the Scriptures do warrant, the Creeds do persuade, and the ancient Councils decreed, I may well be a schismatic from Rome, but I am sure I am no heretic.

For Relics of Saints, If I had any such I were assured were members of their bodies, I would honourably bury them and not give them the reward of condemned men's members, which are only ordained to be deprived of burial. But for worshipping either them or images, I must account it damnable idolatry.

I am no Iconomachus. I quarrel not with the making of images, either for public decoration or for men's private uses. But that they should be worshipped, be prayed to, or any holiness attributed unto them, was never known of the ancients. And the Scriptures are so directly, vehemently, and punctually against it, as I wonder what brain of man or suggestion of Satan durst offer it to Christians. And all must be salved with nice philosophical distinctions as Idolunt nihil est; and They worship (forsooth) the Images of things in being and the Image of the true God. But the Scripture forbiddeth to worship the Image of anything that God created. It was not a nihil then that God forbade only to be worshipped, neither was the Brazen Serpent nor the body of Moses a nihil; and yet the one was destroyed and the other hidden for eschewing of idolatry. Yea, the Image of God Himself is not only expressly forbidden to be worshipped, but even to be made. The reason is given, That no eye ever saw God; and how can we paint His Face, when Moses (the man that was ever most familiar with God) never saw but His back parts? Surely, since He cannot be drawn to the vive, it is a thankless labour to mar it with a false representation; which no Prince, nor scarcely any other man, will be contented with in their own pictures. Let them therefore that maintain this doctrine answer it to Christ at the latter day, when He shall accuse them of idolatry. And then I doubt if He will be paid with such nice sophistical distinctions....

As for Purgatory, and all the trash depending thereupon, it is not worth the talking of; Bellarmine cannot find any ground for it in all the Scriptures. Only I would pray him to tell me, If that fair green meadow that is in Purgatory have a brook running through it, that in case I come there I may have hawking upon it. But as for me, I am sure there is a Heaven and a Hell, praenium et poena, for the Elect and Reprobate; how many other rooms there be, I am not on God His council. Multae sunt mansiones in domo Patris mei, ["there are many mansions in my father's house"] saith Christ, Who is the true purgatory for our sins. But how many chambers and ante-chambers the Devil hath, they can best tell that go to him. But in case there were more places for souls to go to than we know of, yet let us content us with that which in His Word He hath revealed unto us, and not inquire further into His secrets. Heaven and Hell are there revealed to be the eternal home of all mankind. Let us endeavour to win the one and eschew the other; and there is an end.

Now in all this discourse have I yet left out the main article of the Romish faith, and that is, the Head of the Church or Peter's Primacy; for who denieth this, denieth fidem Catholicam [The catholic faith], saith Bellarmine. That Bishops ought to be in the Church, I ever maintained it as an Apostolic institution and so the ordinance of God,contrary to the Puritans, and likewise to Bellarmine, who denies that Bishops have their jurisdiction immediately from God. (But it is no wonder he takes the Puritans' part, since Jesuits are nothing but Puritan-Papists.) And as I ever maintained the state of Bishops and the Ecclesiastical Hierarchy for order sake, so was I ever an enemy to the confused anarchy or parity of the Puritans, as well appeareth in my Basilikon Archon. Heaven is governed by order, and all the good angels there. Nay, Hell itself could not subsist without some order. And the very devils are divided into legions and have their chieftains. How can any society, then, upon earth subsist without order and degrees? And therefore I cannot enough wonder with what brazen face this Answerer could say, That I was a Puritan in Scotland and an enemy to Protestants, - I that was persecuted by Puritans there, not from my birth only, but even since four months before my birth? I that in the year of God 84 [1584] I erected Bishops and depressed all their popular parity, I then being not 18 years of age? I that in my said Book to my Son do speak ten times more bitterly of them nor of the Papists, having in my second edition thereof affixed a long Apologetic Preface, only in odium Puritanorum? And I that for the space of six years before my coming into England laboured nothing so much as to depress their parity and re-erect Bishops again? Nay, if the daily commentaries of my life and actions in Scotland were written (as Julius Caesar's were) there would scarcely a month pass in all my life, since my entering into the thirteenth year of my age, wherein some accident or other would not convince the Cardinal of a lie in this point. And surely I give a fair commendation to the Puritans in that place of my book, where I affirm that I have found greater honesty with the highland and border thieves than with that sort of people. But leaving him to his own impudence, I return to my purpose.

Of Bishops and Church Hierarchy I very well allow (as I said before) and likewise of ranks and degrees amongst bishops. Patriarchs I know were in the time of the Primitive Church, and I likewise reverence that institution for order sake; and amongst them was a contention for the first place. And for myself (if that were yet the question) I would with all my heart give my consent that the Bishop of Rome should have the first seat; I being a Western King would go with the Patriarch of the West. And for his temporal principality over the Signory of Rome, I do not quarrel it either. Let him in God His Name be Primus Episcopus inter omnes Episcopos ["first bishop among all bishops"], and Princeps Episcoporum [Prince of bishops] so it be no otherwise but as Peter was Princeps Apostolorum. But as I well allow of the hierarchy of the Church for distinction of orders (for so I understand it), so I utterly deny that there is an earthly Monarch thereof, whose word must be a law, and who cannot err in his sentence, by an Infallibility of Spirit. Because earthly Kingdoms must have earthly Monarchs, it doth not follow that the Church must have a visible Monarch too. For the world hath not one earthly temporal Monarch. Christ is His Church's Monarch, and the Holy Ghost His Deputy, Reges Gentium dominants eorum, vos autem non sic. Christ did not promise before His Ascension to leave Peter with them to direct and instruct them in all things. But He promised to send the Holy Ghost unto them for that end.

And as for these two before cited places, whereby Bellarmine maketh the Pope to triumph over kings, I mean Pasce oves and Tibi dabo claves, the Cardinal knows well enough that the same words of Tibi dabo are in another place spoken by Christ in the plural number. And he likewise knows what reason the ancients do give why Christ bade Peter pascere oves, and also what a cloud of witnesses there is, both of ancients, and even of late Popish writers, yea divers Cardinals, that do all agree, that both these speeches used to Peter were meant to all the Apostles represented in his person. Otherwise, how could Paul direct the Church of Corinth to excommunicate the incestuous person cum spiritu suo, whereas he should then have said, cum spiritu Petri? And how could all the Apostles have otherwise used all their censures only in Christ's Name, and never a word of His Vicar? Peter, we read, did in all the Apostles' meetings sit amongst them as one of their number. And when chosen men were sent to Antiochia from that great Apostolic Council at Jerusalem (Acts xv), the text saith, It seemed good to the Apostles and Elders with the whole Church to send chosen men; but no mention made of the Head thereof. And so in their Letters no mention is made of Peter, but only of the Apostles, Elders, and Brethren. And it is a wonder why Paul rebuketh the Church of Corinth for making exception of persons, because some followed Paul, some Apollos, some Cephas, if Peter was their visible Head! For then those that followed not Peter or Cephas renounced the Catholic Faith. But it appeareth well that Paul knew little of our new doctrine, since he handleth Peter so rudely, as he not only compareth, but preferreth, himself unto him. But our Cardinal proves Peter's superiority by Paul's going to visit him. Indeed Paul saith, He went to Jerusalem to visit Peter and confer with him. But he should have added, "And to kiss his feet." . . .

Thus have I now made a free Confession of my Faith. And, I hope, I have fully cleared myself from being an Apostate; and, as far from being an heretic as one may be, that believeth the Scriptures, and the three Creeds, and acknowledgeth the four first General Councils. If I be loath to believe too much, especially of novelties, men of greater knowledge may well pity my weakness. But I am sure none will condemn me for an heretic, save such as make the Pope their God, and think him such a speaking Scripture as they can define heresy no otherwise, but to be whatsoever opinion is maintained against the Pope's definition of faith. And I will sincerely promise, that whenever any point of the Religion I profess shall be proved to be new, and not Ancient, Catholic, and Apostolic (I mean for matter of faith), I will as soon renounce it, closing up this head with the maxim of Vincentius Lirinensis, that I will never refuse to embrace any opinion in divinity necessary to salvation which the whole Catholic Church with an unanime consent have constantly taught and believed even from the Apostles' days, for the space of many ages thereafter without any interruption.

www.fordham.edu/halsall /mod/1616james1.asp

randge  posted on  2012-11-17   10:00:02 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#35. To: randge (#34)

We know of course that James I governed Britain as a protestant king independently of Rome, and we can see that the profession below wherein James calls himself a catholic Christian is to be taken in a general, historical sense.

However, I am curious to know, ATKHWDI, since you are more erudite in these matters than I am,

you jest.

can you deduce these big C, Catholic leanings from his writings??

I'd have to read it a second time, but on the first go-round, I think I would only argue with this:

I reverence her as the Mother of Christ, of whom our Saviour took His flesh, and so the Mother of God, since the Divinity and Humanity of Christ are inseparable. And I freely confess that she is in glory both above angels and men, her own Son (that is both God and man) only excepted.

Technically, Mary is not the Mother of God, because Jesus Is God and He created all things in the beginning from which Mary sprung. Mary is more like the blessed vessel from which God chose to come into the world as a flesh and blood man. Christ being Father and Son, is the parent of Mary, not the other way around.

John 1 >>

King James Version

1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2The same was in the beginning with God. 3All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. kingjbible.com/john/1.htm

Matthew 12:47 Someone told him, "Your mother and brothers are standing outside, wanting to speak to you."Matthew 12:49 Pointing to his disciples, he said, "Here are my mother and my brothers.

50 For whosoever does the will of my Father in heaven is my brother and sister and mother.

"Who is my mother? ... - There was no want of affection or respect in Jesus toward his mother, as is proved by his whole life.

See especially Luke 2:51, and John 19:25-27. This question was asked merely to "fix the attention" of the hearers and to prepare them for the answer - that is, to show them who sustained toward him the nearest and most tender relation. To do this he pointed to his disciples. Dear and tender as were the ties which bound him to his mother and brethren, yet those which bound him to his disciples were more tender and sacred. How great was his love for his disciples, when it was more than even that for his mother! And what a bright illustration of his own doctrine, that we ought to forsake father, and mother and friends, and houses, and lands, to be his followers!...."

bible.cc/matthew/12-48.htm [good commentaries. pablo should like. talks about OBEYING the sabbath. food for thought.]

Other than that, I am pleasantly educated.

Now in all this discourse have I yet left out the main article of the Romish faith, and that is, the Head of the Church or Peter's Primacy; for who denieth this, denieth fidem Catholicam [The catholic faith], saith Bellarmine. That Bishops ought to be in the Church, I ever maintained it as an Apostolic institution and so the ordinance of God,contrary to the Puritans, and likewise to Bellarmine, who denies that Bishops have their jurisdiction immediately from God. (But it is no wonder he takes the Puritans' part, since Jesuits are nothing but Puritan-Papists.) And as I ever maintained the state of Bishops and the Ecclesiastical Hierarchy for order sake, so was I ever an enemy to the confused anarchy or parity of the Puritans, as well appeareth in my Basilikon Archon. Heaven is governed by order, and all the good angels there. Nay, Hell itself could not subsist without some order. And the very devils are divided into legions and have their chieftains. How can any society, then, upon earth subsist without order and degrees? And therefore I cannot enough wonder with what brazen face this Answerer could say, That I was a Puritan in Scotland and an enemy to Protestants, - I that was persecuted by Puritans there, not from my birth only, but even since four months before my birth? I that in the year of God 84 [1584] I erected Bishops and depressed all their popular parity, I then being not 18 years of age? I that in my said Book to my Son do speak ten times more bitterly of them nor of the Papists, having in my second edition thereof affixed a long Apologetic Preface, only in odium Puritanorum? And I that for the space of six years before my coming into England laboured nothing so much as to depress their parity and re-erect Bishops again? Nay, if the daily commentaries of my life and actions in Scotland were written (as Julius Caesar's were) there would scarcely a month pass in all my life, since my entering into the thirteenth year of my age, wherein some accident or other would not convince the Cardinal of a lie in this point. And surely I give a fair commendation to the Puritans in that place of my book, where I affirm that I have found greater honesty with the highland and border thieves than with that sort of people. But leaving him to his own impudence, I return to my purpose.

Very Interesting! The king and I stand on common ground here on our opinions of the Puritans [who, imo, were crypto-Jews, the proverbial wolves in sheep's clothing]. I guess the crypto-Jews didn't give up on controlling the throne, just because James's father was killed. Think of this, the Pilgrims/Puritans/Separatists [btw, the definition of a pharisee is a religious separatist] came over here in 1620. I read several years ago that the talmudists were working on something called Justice 2020. I could never find much on it. I just did another search, and things are starting to appear, such as:

Justice 2020
www.azcourts.gov/Justice2020/ Strategic Agenda for the Judicial Branch of Arizona.

JUSTICE 2020 AND VISION 2020 ARE BASED ON TALMUD THE ...
groups.google.com/group/total_truth.../aca3aa7fd895ff8d
Dec 25, 2010 ... Justice 2020 Image removed by sender. Strategic Agenda for the Judicial Branch ...

World Day of Social Justice 2020 - Worldwide - 20-02-2020 - Event ...
www.zapaday.com/event/207/9/World+Day+of+Social+Justice.html
World Day of Social Justice. ... National Days Breadcrumb UN Observances. World Day of Social Justice 2020. Thursday 20 February 2020 2668 days from now ...

World Day for International Justice 2020 - Worldwide - 17-07-2020 ...
www.zapaday.com/.../World%20Day%20for%20International%20Justice.html Jul 12, 2012 ... World Day for International Justice | The World Day for International Justice, also referred to as Day of International Criminal Justice or ...

I haven't read any of them yet...just saying.

I am filing this one for more research. Thanks.

AllTheKings'HorsesWontDoIt  posted on  2012-11-20   9:32:30 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


Replies to Comment # 35.

#38. To: AllTheKings'HorsesWontDoIt (#35)

Very interesting, and you see, I do not jest.

since Jesuits are nothing but Puritan-Papists

Can you explain this statement somewhat? I do not get it.

randge  posted on  2012-11-20 09:56:21 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


End Trace Mode for Comment # 35.

TopPage UpFull ThreadPage DownBottom/Latest


[Home]  [Headlines]  [Latest Articles]  [Latest Comments]  [Post]  [Sign-in]  [Mail]  [Setup]  [Help]