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Science/Tech
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Title: Rewriting prehistory: Dinosaurs ate grass
Source: AP
URL Source: http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/ ... 117-1435-dinograss-eaters.html
Published: Nov 18, 2005
Author: Lauran Neergaard
Post Date: 2005-11-18 14:13:19 by A K A Stone
Keywords: prehistory:, Rewriting, Dinosaurs
Views: 429
Comments: 81

WASHINGTON – Imagine dinosaur terrain – full of ferns and palms, right? Better add some grass to that picture. A new discovery debunks the theory that grasses didn't emerge until long after the dinosaurs died off.

Fossilized dung tells the story: The most prominent plant-eating dinosaurs were digesting different varieties of grass between 65 million and 71 million years ago, researchers report Friday in the journal Science.

Advertisement Click Me! The earliest grass fossils ever found were about 55 million years old – from the post-dinosaur era.

It's a big surprise for scientists, who had never really looked for evidence of grass in dino diets before. After all, grass fossils aside, those sauropods – the behemoths with the long necks and tails and small heads – didn't have the special kind of teeth needed to grind up abrasive blades.

"Most people would not have fathomed that they would eat grasses," noted lead researcher Caroline Stromberg of the Swedish Museum of Natural History.

Stromberg and a team of paleobotanists from India analyzed sauropod dung – the scientific term is coprolites – found in central India.

The coprolites contained microscopic particles of silica called phytoliths, which form inside plant cells in distinctive patterns that essentially act as a signature.

Amid the expected plants were numerous phytoliths certain to have come from the grass family, report Stromberg and Vandana Prasad of India's Birbal Sahni Institute of Palaeobotany. They included relatives of rice and bamboo and forage-type grasses.

They didn't eat a lot of grass, the evidence shows.

But grasses must have originated considerably earlier, well over 80 million years ago, for such a wide variety to have evolved and spread to the Indian subcontinent in time to be munched by sauropods, they concluded.

"These remarkable results will force reconsideration of many long-standing assumptions" about dinosaur ecology, wrote Dolores Piperno and Hans-Dieter Sues of the Smithsonian Institution's National Museum of Natural History in an accompanying review.

Beyond the great curiosity about dinosaur life, the discovery has implications about the coevolution of this huge plant family – there are about 10,000 separate grass species – with other plant-eaters, Piperno explained.

Indeed, a mysterious early mammal that roamed among the dinosaurs had more suitable teeth for grazing, raising the possibility of an early adaptation, the researchers note.

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#1. To: All (#0)

It's a big surprise for scientists,

Once again the word of God is proved correct. The so called scientists need another revision in their junk science books.

Creationism is correct. Evolution is disproven junk science.

A K A Stone  posted on  2005-11-18   14:14:45 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#2. To: A K A Stone (#0)

So what this is saying that ALL dinosaurs were grass eaters.. Now consider this.. if God created them then would He not have created them perfectly? Why would God give some dinosaurs canine teeth which would enable them to eat meat best rather than teeth that would make them eat grass in not the most efficient way? Does this say God made an error?

Zipporah  posted on  2005-11-18   14:39:43 ET  (2 images) Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#3. To: Zipporah (#2)

Apparently their is grass in their shit. So I guess their teeth worked fine. With my teeth I can eat meat or vegetables.

A K A Stone  posted on  2005-11-18   14:41:32 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#4. To: Zipporah (#2)

Critters have differing ways of collecting grass: some chomp it off, while others pull it out. There are also different ways of digesting said grasses.

Who knows how many tummies the dinos possessed?

Lod  posted on  2005-11-18   14:49:34 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#5. To: A K A Stone (#0)

Fossilized dung tells the story: The most prominent plant-eating dinosaurs were digesting different varieties of grass between 65 million and 71 million years ago, researchers report Friday in the journal Science.

Interesting, considering that you've previously argued that the Earth is only 6000 years old.

And I'm optimistic. See, I think you can be realistic and optimistic at the same time. I'm optimistic we'll achieve -- I know we won't achieve if we send mixed signals. I know we're not going to achieve our objective if we send mixed signals - gwbush

Dakmar  posted on  2005-11-18   14:55:27 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#6. To: A K A Stone (#3)

Apparently their is grass in their s**t. So I guess their teeth worked fine. With my teeth I can eat meat or vegetables.

Well just like carnivores today, they eat the stomachs and the intestines of their quarry that contains vegetable matter.. so their dung would contain remains of vegetable matter just as their prey.

Zipporah  posted on  2005-11-18   15:03:57 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#7. To: lodwick (#4)

Critters have differing ways of collecting grass: some chomp it off, while others pull it out. There are also different ways of digesting said grasses.

Who knows how many tummies the dinos possessed?

I suppose that the fossils reveal that they had vegetable matter in their stomachs or dung.. ?

Zipporah  posted on  2005-11-18   15:05:05 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#8. To: Zipporah (#7)

I suppose that the fossils reveal that they had vegetable matter in their stomachs or dung.. ?

;-) So it seems.

I'm not sure why anyone would find it odd that they liked their veggies: my dogs enjoy a breakfast mix of green beans, carrots, brown rice, small red beans, black beans, walnuts, almonds, and pine nuts which I cook in chicken broth harvested from boneless, skinless chicken thighs.

Then in the afternoon we'll enjoy either raw carrots, strawberries, bananas, or pineapple pieces.

In fact, one of them is barking at me right now to alert me that it's time for the afternoon snack.

Lod  posted on  2005-11-18   15:42:17 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#9. To: lodwick (#8)

My dog loves oranges.. if you eat an orange you may as well know at least half of it is hers.. :P

Zipporah  posted on  2005-11-18   15:48:49 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#10. To: Zipporah, lodwick (#9)

My Mom used to have a cat that ate olives.

And I'm optimistic. See, I think you can be realistic and optimistic at the same time. I'm optimistic we'll achieve -- I know we won't achieve if we send mixed signals. I know we're not going to achieve our objective if we send mixed signals - gwbush

Dakmar  posted on  2005-11-18   16:11:47 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#11. To: Dakmar (#5)

Interesting, considering that you've previously argued that the Earth is only 6000 years old.

They proved the dung had grass matter in it. They did not prove their point on the age. They are still wrong on the age. Radio carbon dating and other dating methods have been proven wrong. They use assumptions and circular reasoning.

A K A Stone  posted on  2005-11-18   16:26:36 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#12. To: A K A Stone (#11)

Whatever, I suggest you read the article again. It doesn't say a damned thing about ALL dinosaurs eating grass. The only contention among scientists is when grasses first appeared.

And I'm optimistic. See, I think you can be realistic and optimistic at the same time. I'm optimistic we'll achieve -- I know we won't achieve if we send mixed signals. I know we're not going to achieve our objective if we send mixed signals - gwbush

Dakmar  posted on  2005-11-18   16:28:46 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#13. To: Zipporah (#7)

If some dinosaurs ate meat, it wouldn't surprise me. Afterall after the flood the world was changed. The bible makes that clear.

A K A Stone  posted on  2005-11-18   16:29:16 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#14. To: Dakmar (#12)

See comment 13. Grass was on the first day if my memory serves me correct. Certainly in the first few days. (less then 6).

A K A Stone  posted on  2005-11-18   16:30:34 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#15. To: Dakmar (#10)

My Mom used to have a cat that ate olives.

They're are racoons here that rain the trash.. they get leftover pizza and pick off the olives! LOL

Zipporah  posted on  2005-11-18   16:46:48 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#16. To: A K A Stone (#14)

Grass was on the first day if my memory serves me correct.

Absolutely, they needed something for Dionysis to throw up on...

And I'm optimistic. See, I think you can be realistic and optimistic at the same time. I'm optimistic we'll achieve -- I know we won't achieve if we send mixed signals. I know we're not going to achieve our objective if we send mixed signals - gwbush

Dakmar  posted on  2005-11-18   16:48:18 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#17. To: Zipporah (#15)

I'm surprised they stop at the olives, racoons will eat just about anything.

And I'm optimistic. See, I think you can be realistic and optimistic at the same time. I'm optimistic we'll achieve -- I know we won't achieve if we send mixed signals. I know we're not going to achieve our objective if we send mixed signals - gwbush

Dakmar  posted on  2005-11-18   16:50:01 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#18. To: Dakmar (#16)

Absolutely, they needed something for Dionysis to throw up on...

LOL!

Zipporah  posted on  2005-11-18   16:50:12 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#19. To: Dakmar (#17)

I'm surprised they stop at the olives, racoons will eat just about anything.

Its so weird.. the pizza was gone.. they left the olives in the box! But of course they left the box on the ground.. trashy raccoons..

Zipporah  posted on  2005-11-18   16:51:30 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#20. To: Dakmar (#16)

Absolutely, they needed something for Dionysis to throw up on...

On a more serious matter. What is your position? Are you a darwinist to the core? Are you not sure and open? A mix? What?

A K A Stone  posted on  2005-11-18   16:52:12 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#21. To: Zipporah (#19)

Its so weird.. the pizza was gone.. they left the olives in the box! But of course they left the box on the ground.. trashy raccoons..

I don't like olives. Perhaps I evolved from a raccoon.

A K A Stone  posted on  2005-11-18   16:53:43 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#22. To: A K A Stone (#21)

I don't like olives. Perhaps I evolved from a raccoon.

AHA!!

Zipporah  posted on  2005-11-18   16:55:52 ET  (1 image) Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#23. To: Dakmar (#12)

Whatever, I suggest you read the article again. It doesn't say a damned thing about ALL dinosaurs eating grass. The only contention among scientists is when grasses first appeared.

the behemoths with the long necks and tails and small heads – didn't have the special kind of teeth needed to grind up abrasive blades.

"Most people would not have fathomed that they would eat grasses," noted lead researcher Caroline Stromberg of the Swedish Museum of Natural History.

A K A Stone  posted on  2005-11-18   16:56:02 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#24. To: A K A Stone (#23)

the behemoths with the long necks and tails and small heads – didn't have the special kind of teeth needed to grind up abrasive blades.

Hmm not so sure about that..

Zipporah  posted on  2005-11-18   16:59:46 ET  (1 image) Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#25. To: Zipporah (#24)

the behemoths with the long necks and tails and small heads – didn't have the special kind of teeth needed to grind up abrasive blades.

Hmm not so sure about that..

It's a big surprise for scientists, who had never really looked for evidence of grass in dino diets before. After all, grass fossils aside, those sauropods – the behemoths with the long necks and tails and small heads – didn't have the special kind of teeth needed to grind up abrasive blades.

Both are from the article, whats your point? I can't see the image you linked real clear either.

A K A Stone  posted on  2005-11-18   17:05:29 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#26. To: A K A Stone (#25)

Okay here's a link.. look at the differences..

http://members.aol.com/ncanvas2/NCWeb/CarHerb.html

Zipporah  posted on  2005-11-18   17:17:28 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#27. To: Dakmar (#10)

My Mom used to have a cat that ate olives.

Whoa.

In it's kitty martini?

Cheers, Daks.

Lod  posted on  2005-11-18   17:28:47 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#28. To: A K A Stone (#0)

"Most people would not have fathomed that they would eat grass"

The really laid back dino's smoked it.

Wrench  posted on  2005-11-18   17:32:51 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#29. To: Wrench (#28)

The really laid back dino's smoked it.

Ah.. I get it.. they got the munchies .. it wasn't evolution at all it was the grass :P

Zipporah  posted on  2005-11-18   17:35:20 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#30. To: Zipporah (#29)

Ah.. I get it.. they got the munchies .. it wasn't evolution at all it was the grass :P

LOL! That's right, they got the munchies then went to sleep, they didn't even see the big one coming....now they're extinct. See what smoking dope will get ya..

Wrench  posted on  2005-11-18   17:48:36 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#31. To: Wrench (#30)

LOL! That's right, they got the munchies then went to sleep, they didn't even see the big one coming....now they're extinct. See what smoking dope will get ya..

Yeah..betcha they saw the blast and said .. Awesome!! .. look at the pretty lights. :P

Zipporah  posted on  2005-11-18   17:52:23 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#32. To: Zipporah (#31)

Yeah..betcha they saw the blast and said .. Awesome!! .. look at the pretty lights. :P

LMAO...yeah thats the ticket.

Wrench  posted on  2005-11-18   17:54:15 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#33. To: A K A Stone (#20)

On a more serious matter. What is your position? Are you a darwinist to the core? Are you not sure and open? A mix? What?

I'm an atheist, so obviously I think all creations myths are equally silly, therefore equally valid, comparatively speaking. I don't care if they teach I.D. in public schools as philosophy or religion, but I swear to Odin I'll get my machete and hack to death the first teacher that tries out that material in a Hoosier public school. Well, I'll take a run at them and give them a good fright anyway. Who am I kidding, I'm too busy for all that.

It seems obvious to me that the Earth has been around more than 6000 years just from looking at the Grand Canyon.

I don't care what people believe, I care about the money they've taken from me to convince others that their belief is the correct one. I also get more than a little cranky when people say I'm evil or dull witted, or even some sort of socialist for having the worldview with which I was born. The people that think I'm a socialist are the funniest.

And I'm optimistic. See, I think you can be realistic and optimistic at the same time. I'm optimistic we'll achieve -- I know we won't achieve if we send mixed signals. I know we're not going to achieve our objective if we send mixed signals - gwbush

Dakmar  posted on  2005-11-18   18:48:48 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#34. To: Dakmar (#33)

It seems obvious to me that the Earth has been around more than 6000 years just from looking at the Grand Canyon.

I think the Grand canyon is marvelous proof of the flood. It was created rapidly. Think of water rushing through soft dirt on a very large scale.

A K A Stone  posted on  2005-11-18   19:07:56 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#35. To: lodwick (#8)

My daughter had a cat that loved cantalope. The few times he was able to get out of her house, or mine, for that matter, she'd get cantalope and entice him out of his hiding or nesting or roosting place with it.

Mine, her Tuffy's brother, would eat lettuce.

rowdee  posted on  2005-11-18   20:25:28 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#36. To: Zipporah (#9)

LOL......

rowdee  posted on  2005-11-18   20:26:16 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#37. To: rowdee (#36)

She's a character.. will not stop when there's an orange in the area.. there is no way you can possibly ignore her... bananas too but she's worse with an orange than she is with any type meat or anything else for that matter.. weird isnt it?

Zipporah  posted on  2005-11-18   20:32:19 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#38. To: A K A Stone (#34)

I think the Grand canyon is marvelous proof of the flood. It was created rapidly. Think of water rushing through soft dirt on a very large scale.

Why would God want His perfect world changed? More important, why would God make so many stupid people, who's lives at best are spent in service to tackier creatures?

And I'm optimistic. See, I think you can be realistic and optimistic at the same time. I'm optimistic we'll achieve -- I know we won't achieve if we send mixed signals. I know we're not going to achieve our objective if we send mixed signals - gwbush

Dakmar  posted on  2005-11-18   20:32:24 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#39. To: Zipporah (#24)

Re teeth..

Back when Mt. St. Helens erupted in the 80s, I contacted our vet to see what, if anything, to do with our livestock (cattle). Dogs and cats were kept in doors.

He said the ash fallout would play hell with their teeth; cause them to grind down rather quickly. We wound up feeding our livestock under a heavy canopy of tree cover. Trees had bloomed out their leaves; grasses weren't up enough in the pastures to turn them in there; so we continued to feed hay.

Even at that, they were covered in ash. That damn stuff was able to sift through anything and get in the house.

Back to teeth..........any volcanic activity spewing ash could lay on grass or other forage. And when consumed....well.....

rowdee  posted on  2005-11-18   20:33:16 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#40. To: Zipporah (#37)

Our critters provide us much pleasure (?).

I have a friend whose little pug delights in eating cigarettes! I learned that the hard way that you don't keep a pack of cigarettes in the side pocket of your purse.....2x that little witch ate half a pack and demolished the rest to where they were unsmokable.

That was back when I smoked....about 6 months before I quit.

rowdee  posted on  2005-11-18   20:37:24 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#41. To: A K A Stone (#3)

Apparently their is grass in their shit. So I guess their teeth worked fine.

Of course you're a troll, but let's go ahead with this anyway.

Other dinosaur shit has bones.

But also, you posted an article last week claiming the Earth is appx 6,000 years old because your religion trys to fit a square peg into a round hole. Fine.

Now this article says "between 65 million and 71 million years ago".

Which is it?

Of course there were herbivore dinosaurs, there were carnivores ones which also existed prior to man. This blows the idea of original sin, as told in Genesis to shit. You can find a new source of guilt because this one doesn't hold water.

With my teeth I can eat meat or vegetables.<

Because you have canine teeth for tearing as well as flatter teeth for grinding.

T-rex had all sharp teeth. Not a grass eater.

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Dude Lebowski  posted on  2005-11-18   20:42:03 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#42. To: Dude Lebowski (#41)

Of course there were herbivore dinosaurs, there were carnivores ones which also existed prior to man. This blows the idea of original sin, as told in Genesis to shit.

It doesn't blow anything out of the water. The idea that they existed before man is speculation nothing more.

A K A Stone  posted on  2005-11-18   20:44:25 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#43. To: Dude Lebowski (#41)

Of course you're a troll, but let's go ahead with this anyway.

Why are you calling me a troll. Im just a nice guy that likes to discuss politics , origins and stuff like that. Any ways nice to meet you.

A K A Stone  posted on  2005-11-18   20:45:18 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#44. To: Dude Lebowski (#41)

T-rex had all sharp teeth. Not a grass eater.

Im sure T-REX could have eaten meat after the curse. The world was changed then. Perhaps part of the curse.

A K A Stone  posted on  2005-11-18   20:48:52 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#45. To: A K A Stone (#34)

I think the Grand canyon is marvelous proof of the flood. It was created rapidly. Think of water rushing through soft dirt on a very large scale.

Then why don't all the worlds soft areas have a grand canyon?

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Dude Lebowski  posted on  2005-11-18   20:51:28 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#46. To: Dude Lebowski (#45)

Then why don't all the worlds soft areas have a grand canyon?

Because their was a world wide flood. Sediment was deposited there. Then water came rushing through and carved it out. You don't think that tiny stream eroded that over millions of years do you?

A K A Stone  posted on  2005-11-18   20:53:47 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#47. To: Dude Lebowski (#45)

Also if you have ever been through the badlands you can see where the water lines were after the flood. So obvious.

A K A Stone  posted on  2005-11-18   20:55:15 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#48. To: A K A Stone (#44)

Im sure T-REX could have eaten meat after the curse. The world was changed then. Perhaps part of the curse.

So before the curse when animals didn't die, God have commanded them to be fruitful and multiply, now realizing the Garden of Eden was a finite area (as defined later in Genesis) wouldn't that amount to a population problem? If God would have created Malthus earlier, could he have been warned of this problem?

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Dude Lebowski  posted on  2005-11-18   20:58:31 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#49. To: Dude Lebowski (#48)

So before the curse when animals didn't die, God have commanded them to be fruitful and multiply, now realizing the Garden of Eden was a finite area (as defined later in Genesis) wouldn't that amount to a population problem? If God would have created Malthus earlier, could he have been warned of this problem?

Who says they would have been confined to the garden of Eden when the population grew. Interesting question though. But we can only assume what the outcome would have been.

A K A Stone  posted on  2005-11-18   21:01:55 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#50. To: A K A Stone (#46)

Because their was a world wide flood. Sediment was deposited there. Then water came rushing through and carved it out. You don't think that tiny stream eroded that over millions of years do you?

Whatever you have to believe to make the pieces fit, more power to ya.

BTW, you never 'splained what's up with those dozen other species of hominids relative to the Genesis story. Were Neanderthal brought before Adam to be named? Was Cro-magnon made in God's image.

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Dude Lebowski  posted on  2005-11-18   21:02:23 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#51. To: A K A Stone (#49)

Who says they would have been confined to the garden of Eden when the population grew.

Take it a step further and where would they live when they infested the entire earth? Would God have furnished spaceships to take them elsewhere?

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Dude Lebowski  posted on  2005-11-18   21:04:47 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#52. To: Dude Lebowski (#50)

BTW, you never 'splained what's up with those dozen other species of hominids relative to the Genesis story. Were Neanderthal brought before Adam to be named? Was Cro-magnon made in God's image.

Their are many sizes and shapes of people. I know Luch for example was a fraud. Bones found hundreds of yards or further apart. Can you say piltdown man. Back to the bible. Their was a race of Giants in the bible. Remember the evil report that came back to moses. Their is also talk of a race of beings that were part angelic or something. "the sons of god" "daughters of man".

A K A Stone  posted on  2005-11-18   21:05:32 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#53. To: Dude Lebowski (#51)

Take it a step further and where would they live when they infested the entire earth? Would God have furnished spaceships to take them elsewhere?

We are still not at that point today. Im sure it would work out just fine. What about the size of the sun and how if the earth was millions or billions of years old the sun would have been so large we would be charcoal.

A K A Stone  posted on  2005-11-18   21:06:50 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#54. To: A K A Stone (#52)

I know Luch for example was a fraud.

What is a 'Luch'?

And I'm optimistic. See, I think you can be realistic and optimistic at the same time. I'm optimistic we'll achieve -- I know we won't achieve if we send mixed signals. I know we're not going to achieve our objective if we send mixed signals - gwbush

Dakmar  posted on  2005-11-18   21:09:12 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#55. To: Dakmar (#54)

What is a 'Luch'?

I appolagise. I mistyped. Lucy

A K A Stone  posted on  2005-11-18   21:13:01 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#56. To: A K A Stone (#55)

I appolagise.

Does Jesus screech in your ear real loud every time you try to spell multi-syllable words?

And I'm optimistic. See, I think you can be realistic and optimistic at the same time. I'm optimistic we'll achieve -- I know we won't achieve if we send mixed signals. I know we're not going to achieve our objective if we send mixed signals - gwbush

Dakmar  posted on  2005-11-18   21:17:16 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#57. To: Dakmar (#56)

Does Jesus screech in your ear real loud every time you try to spell multi-syllable words?

No that's what he has you for.

A K A Stone  posted on  2005-11-18   21:29:38 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#58. To: Dude Lebowski (#51)

your tag (lmao)

If Tomorrow Never Comes...

christine  posted on  2005-11-18   21:36:40 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#59. To: A K A Stone (#57)

No, Jesus likes me because I'm free spirited, he told me so in a dream.

And I'm optimistic. See, I think you can be realistic and optimistic at the same time. I'm optimistic we'll achieve -- I know we won't achieve if we send mixed signals. I know we're not going to achieve our objective if we send mixed signals - gwbush

Dakmar  posted on  2005-11-18   21:37:14 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#60. To: Dakmar (#59)

No, Jesus likes me

Im sure he does. Has their ever been a time in your life when you believed in God?

A K A Stone  posted on  2005-11-18   21:38:36 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#61. To: A K A Stone (#47)

Also if you have ever been through the badlands you can see where the water lines were after the flood. So obvious.

Flood geology, creation geology and diluvial geology are terms used by creationists to describe the study of geologic phenomena with reference to the purported events of the Great Flood as described in Genesis. Many creationists regard Genesis as providing a scientifically accurate record for the geological history of the Earth. Specifically, the Great Flood is claimed to be the origin of most of the Earth's geological features, including sedimentary strata, fossilization, fossil fuels, submarine canyons, salt domes, and frozen mammoths. As these claims of evidence are not accepted within the science of geology, flood geology is categorized as pseudoscience

"As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron." H.L. Mencken

Steppenwolf  posted on  2005-11-18   21:41:45 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#62. To: A K A Stone (#60)

Booty Body Ready for the Plush Funk - George Clinton

And I'm optimistic. See, I think you can be realistic and optimistic at the same time. I'm optimistic we'll achieve -- I know we won't achieve if we send mixed signals. I know we're not going to achieve our objective if we send mixed signals - gwbush

Dakmar  posted on  2005-11-18   21:44:25 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#63. To: Steppenwolf (#61)

As these claims of evidence are not accepted within the science of geology, flood geology is categorized as pseudoscience

Actually their are lots and lots of scientists with scientific credentials that support creationism. Go to the badlands sometime. For miles and miles their are like mud piles, obviously laid down by the flood. Their are lines that run parallel that look like the lines where water eroded. The lines are on the same plane miles and miles apart. Only level water could accomplish that feat.

A K A Stone  posted on  2005-11-18   21:45:54 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#64. To: A K A Stone (#60)

Has their ever been a time in your life when you believed in God?

Maybe for a breif second in the early 70's, before my 85 year old great grandmother was beat to death with a walking stick by her 86 year old beau...

And I'm optimistic. See, I think you can be realistic and optimistic at the same time. I'm optimistic we'll achieve -- I know we won't achieve if we send mixed signals. I know we're not going to achieve our objective if we send mixed signals - gwbush

Dakmar  posted on  2005-11-18   21:47:38 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#65. To: Dakmar (#64)

Maybe for a breif second in the early 70's, before my 85 year old great grandmother was beat to death with a walking stick by her 86 year old beau...

Are you saying that you don't believe because there is evil in the world?

A K A Stone  posted on  2005-11-18   21:48:35 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#66. To: A K A Stone, dakmar (#34)

I think the Grand canyon is marvelous proof of the flood. It was created rapidly. Think of water rushing through soft dirt on a very large scale.

Soft dirt??? Vishniu Schist (sp)is not "soft dirt", by a very long shot, nor are most of the other layers of the GC.

Ever been to the bottom to see for yourself?

tom007  posted on  2005-11-18   21:49:58 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#67. To: A K A Stone (#65)

Not at all, frontline violence convinced me it was stupid to even dream most people will love or at least respect one another. My family comes from money, too, man. Don't forget that.

And I'm optimistic. See, I think you can be realistic and optimistic at the same time. I'm optimistic we'll achieve -- I know we won't achieve if we send mixed signals. I know we're not going to achieve our objective if we send mixed signals - gwbush

Dakmar  posted on  2005-11-18   21:52:10 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#68. To: tom007 (#66)

Ever been to the bottom to see for yourself?

No I haven't. I hope to someday. Dr. Gary Parker has though. He used to teach evolution at the college level. He wrote a book on evolution. Now he recognizes it for the bullshit it is. He has been their. He thinks its proof of the flood. His hypothesis make sense. Evolutionists don't. Most Americans dont buy the lie of evolution. See any poll if you don't believe me.

A K A Stone  posted on  2005-11-18   21:52:21 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#69. To: Dakmar (#67)

Not at all, frontline violence convinced me it was stupid to even dream most people will love or at least respect one another. My family comes from money, too, man. Don't forget that.

The Bible does say we have a sin nature. Your family comes from money huh. Are you near the ohio. I could use some extra work its getting a little slow. You know home improvements and stuff.

A K A Stone  posted on  2005-11-18   21:53:51 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#70. To: tom007 (#66)

Ever been to the bottom to see for yourself?

We can't sacrifice everyone we meet in the name of science now, can we? Really? Great, add carrots for cat food.

And I'm optimistic. See, I think you can be realistic and optimistic at the same time. I'm optimistic we'll achieve -- I know we won't achieve if we send mixed signals. I know we're not going to achieve our objective if we send mixed signals - gwbush

Dakmar  posted on  2005-11-18   21:55:08 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#71. To: A K A Stone (#69)

The Bible does say we have a sin nature.

Should I cut off my foreskin now?

And I'm optimistic. See, I think you can be realistic and optimistic at the same time. I'm optimistic we'll achieve -- I know we won't achieve if we send mixed signals. I know we're not going to achieve our objective if we send mixed signals - gwbush

Dakmar  posted on  2005-11-18   21:57:28 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#72. To: Dakmar (#71)

Should I cut off my foreskin now?

If that's what you want to do. I bet it would hurt real bad though. Im glad I was circumcised as an infant.

A K A Stone  posted on  2005-11-18   21:59:35 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#73. To: A K A Stone, Dude Lebowski, dakmar (#46)

en why don't all the worlds soft areas have a grand canyon?

Because their was a world wide flood. Sediment was deposited there. Then water came rushing through and carved it out. You don't think that tiny stream eroded that over millions of years do you?

"Then water came rushing through and carved it out."

Mummm - the GC mesa surface is located at the 7500 - 8300 foot elevation level, much higher then the areas UPSTREAM of the Colorado River. For example, Moab Utah, where the river is right at the level of the surface of the land, is about 5000 feet, and is something like 200 miles UPSTREAM from the GC.

In plain language, your method for the GC creation makes no sense at all. Unless water runs uphill to a high plateau even when there exits a multitude of other lower courses for the "flood" to choose to go.

tom007  posted on  2005-11-18   21:59:41 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#74. To: A K A Stone (#69)

Your family comes from money huh. Are you near the ohio. I could use some extra work its getting a little slow. You know home improvements and stuff.

I was joking, but I hear Jeff Gannon is hiring.

And I'm optimistic. See, I think you can be realistic and optimistic at the same time. I'm optimistic we'll achieve -- I know we won't achieve if we send mixed signals. I know we're not going to achieve our objective if we send mixed signals - gwbush

Dakmar  posted on  2005-11-18   22:00:00 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#75. To: A K A Stone (#47)

Also if you have ever been through the badlands you can see where the water lines were after the flood. So obvious.

Are you being funny???

tom007  posted on  2005-11-18   22:00:55 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#76. To: tom007 (#75)

Are you being funny??

Have you been through the bad lands?

A K A Stone  posted on  2005-11-18   22:03:13 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#77. To: A K A Stone (#76)

Have you been through the bad lands?

South Dakota BL - yes, Bisti Geologic area New Mexico, Yes, Utah yes.

tom007  posted on  2005-11-18   22:06:13 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#78. To: A K A Stone (#47)

Also if you have ever been through the badlands you can see where the water lines were after the flood. So obvious.

Bad Lands Louisana? Katrina was a killer I tell ya.

Zipporah  posted on  2005-11-18   22:08:15 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#79. To: A K A Stone (#53)

Take it a step further and where would they live when they infested the entire earth?

We are still not at that point today.

Dude, that's because critters die and they are consumed by bacteria which presumably didn't have the job of clean up when the world was harmonious prior to original sin (playing debbils advocate here).

In the archaic and ridiculous version, the world was perfect because humans hadn't fucked up yet, critters didn't die but were able to multiply.

You said, well they could have gone beyond the garden of Eden, but the Earth is still a finite area, right? Had Adam and Eve not opted to be bad little chilluns, critters would have long since filled up every living area and would be stacked on top of one another. But you can't seem to follow the thought clearly from start to finish.

What's more believable to the rational mind is that since the dawn of life (who knows how/what/why) on this planet that organisms were competing for food and resources. Every ancient tribe had their explanations of the beginnings, some are more ridiculous than the next but they are all speculation. The truth isn't known.

What we do know is that (some) humans have aspirations to beautify their surroundings and increase their technical understandings. Both of these piss Yahewh off because he's the literary construct of ignorant minds.

Read DEUT 4:16 "Lest ye corrupt yourselves, and make you a graven image, the similitude of any figure, the likeness of male or female, 4:17 The likeness of any beast that is on the earth, the likeness of any winged fowl that flieth in the air, 4:18 The likeness of any thing that creepeth on the ground, the likeness of any fish that is in the waters beneath the earth"

No it doesn't say for the purposes of idolatry, it says you cannot make art. Some of the finest creations of humanity. The Mohammedians have similar laws which they take seriously, because the two religions sprang from the same deserts among likeminded people. But Yahweh is jealous of the highest and most beautiful human expression; art. Which makes life bearable. Which makes people proud to be human. Which it is most decidedly our perogative to do. And why? Because he is a relic of foolish thought.

Now I know some of the believers here will chime in about how I misunderstand what the almighty meant, or how another translation says something completely different. But that is indicitative of everything I've read in the book(s). From horrid burnt offerings of 7 lambs, 2 bullocks, 1 partridge in a pear tree to a pissy creator ready to scrap the whole project because he got his widdle feelings hurt. He ostensibly gave us free will and punishes us for exercising it (ie. the great flood). Bullshit and bullshit again. If that's the nature of this world, prostrating our worthless selves before a Oriental court with an affinity for shiny metals and gems then I'm an unrepentant sinner beacuse that's fucked up. It just can't be.

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Dude Lebowski  posted on  2005-11-19   1:15:26 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#80. To: tom007 (#75)

Are you being funny???

He is. And I don't think it's intentional.

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Dude Lebowski  posted on  2005-11-19   1:20:39 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#81. To: rowdee (#35)

Of course - critters like all sorts of veggies. All this talk of dino shit is just that, d.s...next.

Mega cheers up your way, Dee.

Lod  posted on  2005-11-19   20:09:55 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


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