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Title: Vatican Official Refutes Intelligent Design
Source: Yahoo News
URL Source: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20051118/ap_on_re_eu/vatican_evolution
Published: Nov 18, 2005
Author: Nicole Winfield
Post Date: 2005-11-18 16:58:22 by Zipporah
Keywords: Intelligent, Official, Vatican
Views: 682
Comments: 66

VATICAN CITY - The Vatican's chief astronomer said Friday that "intelligent design" isn't science and doesn't belong in science classrooms, the latest high-ranking Roman Catholic official to enter the evolution debate in the United States.

The Rev. George Coyne, the Jesuit director of the Vatican Observatory, said placing intelligent design theory alongside that of evolution in school programs was "wrong" and was akin to mixing apples with oranges.

"Intelligent design isn't science even though it pretends to be," the ANSA news agency quoted Coyne as saying on the sidelines of a conference in Florence. "If you want to teach it in schools, intelligent design should be taught when religion or cultural history is taught, not science."

His comments were in line with his previous statements on "intelligent design" — whose supporters hold that the universe is so complex that it must have been created by a higher power.

Proponents of intelligent design are seeking to get public schools in the United States to teach it as part of the science curriculum. Critics say intelligent design is merely creationism — a literal reading of the Bible's story of creation — camouflaged in scientific language, and they say it does not belong in science curriculum.

In a June article in the British Catholic magazine The Tablet, Coyne reaffirmed God's role in creation, but said science explains the history of the universe.

"If they respect the results of modern science, and indeed the best of modern biblical research, religious believers must move away from the notion of a dictator God or a designer God, a Newtonian God who made the universe as a watch that ticks along regularly."

Rather, he argued, God should be seen more as an encouraging parent.

"God in his infinite freedom continuously creates a world that reflects that freedom at all levels of the evolutionary process to greater and greater complexity," he wrote. "He is not continually intervening, but rather allows, participates, loves."

The Vatican Observatory, which Coyne heads, is one of the oldest astronomical research institutions in the world. It is based in the papal summer residence at Castel Gandolfo south of Rome.

Last week, Pope Benedict XVI waded indirectly into the evolution debate by saying the universe was made by an "intelligent project" and criticizing those who in the name of science say its creation was without direction or order.

Questions about the Vatican's position on evolution were raised in July by Austrian Cardinal Christoph Schoenborn.

In a New York Times column, Schoenborn seemed to back intelligent design and dismissed a 1996 statement by Pope John Paul II that evolution was "more than just a hypothesis." Schoenborn said the late pope's statement was "rather vague and unimportant."

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#21. To: Zipporah, mirage, A K A Stone (#0)

I was raised Catholic but no longer consider myself catholic. I personally have a lot of problems with the catholic church/faith. Sure there are valid questions about history and origins of the Bible et al, but I don't believe any institution of man holds the keys to eternal life. Considering the Catholic Church as "holy" or similar because of it's historical origins is dangerous territory. Doing things out of habit in vain repetition is not something I think God wants from us, and the Catholic Church basically considers it's traditions to be as sacred as the Bible. (That from my Catholic University professor, at least).

Here in Ecuador, Mary is given so much attention it really bothers me. Paintings and statues here give her a bigger halo or crown than Jesus has. It's mind boggling to me that would be so, since even given Catholic theology, Mary couldn't possibly be more special than Jesus.

I don't buy it, and while asking others for prayer is fine, asking Mary or others who have died to intercede for you in silent meditation doesn't cut it for me, and further cuts too close to idolotry. There is only One true intercessor and that's Jesus himself. The whole point of His coming here was to be like us. Why go elsewhere when He's all you need?

Neil McIver  posted on  2005-11-18   18:19:00 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#23. To: Neil McIver (#21)

There's a lot of history in there that very few people look into, Neil.

Part of the grand veneration for Mary comes from the fact that the Pagans who were in-process of being converted to Christianity had a thing for a mother-figure. In order to bring them into the Christian Church in the early days (we're talking pre-Bible here, somewhere in the 1st to 4th Centuries) the early Christian church let it slide and found, in St. Paul's letters, evidence to support the practice.

As time goes on, things take on a life of their own.

Some time ago, I did some looking into the origins of St. Christopher and found there is no historical basis for that story. The Vatican even removed the feast day because of that. Yet, early Christians carved his likeness into doors, onto bridges, etc.

There were a lot of compromises - and a lot of forgeries - made back "in the beginning" for expediency's sake. If you read Tertullian, Origen, et al, you'll find a lot of compromises were made by the early church. Once Constantine got involved, it got a lot worse with the "Donation of Constantine" and the divine right of kings and whatnot.

Anyhow, that's an extremely quick summation of the actual history. Looking into the actual historical papers and origins has been a hobby of mine for a couple of years now. Its quite an eye-opener. There were (way back when) more variants of Christianity than there are today. Looking into how those folks did things will blow your mind.

mirage  posted on  2005-11-18   18:28:29 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#29. To: mirage (#23)

I'm sure the history of the church is a facinating subject and you apparently know more than me about it. I've certainly heard my share of alleged tidbits of info on how heathen icons have made their home in contemporary christianity. Christmas coinciding nearly with the winter solstice, Easter being the name of a Roman god of fertility, which is where the easter bunny came from, along with the easter egg, the connection being "rebirth" with "ressurection". I've heard it alleged that when Constintine officially recognized christianity, all he really did was rename the god Hera to Mary. The practice of decorating trees with silver and gold is litterally condemned in the old testament too.

All that aside, in terms of what "real" christianity is, however, I'd say it's nothing that any church, catholic or otherwise, can hold with or without all the above. It's much more personal than that, and if your relationship with God is not personal, it's not real. Period.

Neil McIver  posted on  2005-11-18   18:49:22 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#32. To: Neil McIver (#29)

All that aside, in terms of what "real" christianity is, however, I'd say it's nothing that any church, catholic or otherwise, can hold with or without all the above. It's much more personal than that, and if your relationship with God is not personal, it's not real. Period.

That's where I have gotten to as well. "Real" Christianity, to me, at least, is less about rules and regulations [Pharisees, anyone?] and more about the basic virtues that it is supposed to teach. Enslaving yourself to any group or any thing isn't what its about. A religious experience is just that - deep and personal - and it isn't something you can find anywhere but inside yourself.

My *personal* take on the Bible is that it is a great source of inspiration, but not to be taken verbatim or literally. Historically, that bears out since there is no such thing as an "original" manuscript and no two manuscripts that survive agree. It also bears out Biblically because St. Paul only made the claim that it was inspired and that it is useful.

If you have an interest in how the early church ran and how the Bible was corrupted (and continues to be corrupted by people with an agenda) then Bart Ehrman's series of books may interest you. In particular, The Orthodox Corruption of Scripture and Lost Scriptures: Books that didn't make it into the New Testament are absolutely fascinating. The Lost Christianities offers a look into the immense variety of different flavors of Christianity that popped up starting in the first century and some insight into the battles for Orthodoxy that stamped them out and stampeded everyone into the Catholic Church.

mirage  posted on  2005-11-18   18:59:22 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


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