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Title: The irony of the intelligent believer
Source:
WorldNetDaily
URL Source: http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/p ... -friendly.asp?ARTICLE_ID=47503
Published: Nov 21, 2005
Author: Vox Day
Post Date: 2005-11-23 09:53:17 by Starwind
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Keywords: intelligent, believer, irony
Views: 719
Comments: 71
Let me begin by assuring the reader that I am no genius, except by some outmoded and ill-chosen intelligence classifications. Genius is a word best reserved for the supremely gifted, great and original minds such as Mozart, Shakespeare and Babbage, not third-rate novelists with a prediliction for techo-dilettantism and blogosphere debate. And yet, I am perhaps reasonably well-suited to answer the question that has been asked many times of every intelligent and educated Christian by incredulous atheists. How can you - an intelligent individual with an expensive education - possibly take seriously what is at best archaic mythology? How can someone who is otherwise considered to be smart subscribe to what amounts to nothing more than fairytales dressed up as history? And how can anyone who is clearly cognizant of Science ever declare allegiance to its great antithesis, Superstition? I take no offense at these questions, for if they are meant to ridicule, they nevertheless reveal that the questioner has perceived that vital dichotomy which so often precedes a major transformation in one's thinking. It is all too easy for the highly intelligent to dismiss the convictions of the average individual, after all, especially when one's IQ is as far from the norm as the norm is from those unfortunates who were once considered imbeciles. It is not so easy, however, to dismiss the beliefs and thought processes of those one otherwise considers one's intellectual peers. The first, and most obvious, answer is that one obviously can because others of historically remarkable intelligence have. There is no shortage of devout Christians on the list of mankind's most legendary geniuses - many of whom are still rightly revered by atheists and agnostics today. From Galileo and Newton to Doestoevsky and Tolkien, men of outstanding intellect and achievement have placed their trust in the Resurrection of the Lord Jesus Christ. However, it is all too easy to dismiss many of these men as having lived in the pre-Enlightened era and it can always be argued, however disingenuously, that if those now dead had only been privy to the latest developments in modern science, they, too, would have turned their backs on the faith of their fathers. The second answer is a utilitarian one. Science is a whore. Her very essence precludes certainty, which is both a genuine strength and a grave weakness. It is a strength because the scientific method of testing hypotheses encourages a continual seeking after the truth, to which no one who lives by a book that declares "seek and ye shall find" should object. It is a weakness because the inherent mutability of science is at odds with the human desire for objective guidelines by which to live. This conflict tends to repeatedly create faux-sciences, which, however outmoded, are clung to with all the diehard fervor of the religious fanatic. For example, the field of psychoanalysis and the scientific disciplines of psychology and psychiatry are still heavily influenced by the theories of Sigmund Freud, who asserted that religion was an illusionary means of avoiding anxiety from which an individual must be freed in order to mature and reach full mental health. However, genuinely scientific studies have tended to demonstrate precisely the opposite, that at least in the Christian West, religion is a positive predictor of longevity and social maturity, as well as physical and mental health. Being trilingual, I do not subscribe to the literal 100 percent Word of God theory of the Bible. Nor do I understand how anyone who has read more than one English translation of the Bible can hold to it. (My own theory is that the Bible is the perfect and inspired Word of God revealed through imperfect men; while there are likely flaws created by that process, it is unwise to introduce more errors by attempting to further filter it through our own logic and one does well to accept John's admonition to neither add nor take anything away.) And yet, I find it remarkable how often the wise men of the world, despite the advantage of two millennia's history on which to draw, are repeatedly confounded by an ancient and static text. The archeologists and historians who cited the mythical Assyrians and Hittites as proof of the Bible's inaccuracy have already been proven wrong, and soon those who doubt the historical existence of a rich and powerful Davidic kingdom of Israel will be embarrassed as well. Psychologists, psychiatrists and child-care experts have led parents to turn millions of American children into drugged-out zombies because the sum total of their expertise doesn't function half as well as the book of Proverbs. Physicists and cosmologists are proposing imaginative theories of strings and multiple universes - which suggest some interesting supernatural possibilities to me, by the way - primarily in response to the way in which the anthropic principle threatens to render their disciplines mere tautological explanation. As for the secular humanists who are second to none in waving the black-and-white flag of Science, the ongoing demographic collapse of their cherished equalitarian societies in every Western nation is proving their theory of religion's deleterious effect on society to be as errant and intellectually bankrupt as Freud's is with regard to the individual. Theirs is a rotten fruit indeed. From a utilitarian perspective, then, it makes a tremendous amount of sense for an individual or a society to live by the precepts of the Bible, even if one does so sans belief. This is, I would argue, the most purely rational position, and indeed, famous non-believers such as Voltaire and the 18th-century deists so beloved by modern atheists - as long as they stay safely buried in the 1700s - would agree. Economists will tell you that the value of any model is its predictive ability. This is why I reject Keynesian macroeconomics - which are wildly unreliable - in favor of the Austrian school and wave theory, both of which actually work on occasion. And while there is no shortage of prophetic charlatans today, it is interesting to note how those who interpret world events through a biblical lens have proven to be more reliable than political scientists. Every dispensationalist believed the United States of Europe was an inevitability back in the late 1970s, while the poly-sci professors and politicians were still insisting that the Common Market was nothing more than a free-trade area as late as 1994. The establishment of Israel came as a surprise to almost everyone but the wild-eyed watchers of the end times in 1948. Today, who believes that the United States will surrender its national sovereignty to the United Nations and force implantable currency on its citizens except the most literally minded Christians? ADSX and DOC are both selling near all-time lows - an interesting empirical test might be to pick up 100 shares and see what happens over the next 10 years. The fourth answer is reciprocal action. Newton's third law states that all forces occur in pairs, and that paired forces are equal in magnitude and opposite in direction. Even when I was an agnostic, I marveled at the hatred and energy expended on Christians by non-Christians. I could not understand the cognitive dissonance demonstrated by the so-called experts in their rabid attempts to discredit all things even nominally related to Christianity - the nominally Jewish Anti-Defamation League's attack on the Ten Commandments being only the most ironic example of late - as well as their ready willingness to distort and even fabricate history. Who has not heard the Catholic Spanish Inquisition, (2,000 death sentences passed on to the Spanish Crown over 349 years) conflated with the pagan Holocaust (12 million murders in five years), and the atheist slaughters of the Great Terror, the Great Leap Forward and the Killing Fields. (4 million murders in 20 years, 30 million murders in 3 years and 2 million murders in four years, respectively.) And it is commonly asserted that religion is a major cause of war, although, as I have previously demonstrated, religion has only played a role in about 10 percent of all the wars in recorded history. As Jesus Christ declared it would, the world has hated those who followed Him from the moment it became aware of them - from Nero to Kim Jong Il's North Korea. While American atheists attempt to stamp out all public and private expression Christianity for fear of being wished a Merry Christmas at Wal-Mart, Christians are being murdered for their faith in Indonesia, Iraq, Nigeria and the Sudan, and are being imprisoned for their beliefs in Iran, China, Vietnam and Canada. This virulent and near-universal reaction to a religion that is more peaceful than Islam, more intellectual than Hinduism, more inclusive than Judaism and more historically beneficial to human society than Humanism makes little rational sense, and can be seen as evidence of an important element of the Christian worldview, namely, a fallen world ruled by an evil god in opposition to the Creator. Now, this is not a Christian apology and these are not reasons meant to convince one to accept the fundamental truth of Christianity. I trust, however, that it will help those who disdain religion to understand how it is at least possible to believe such things while also being in possession of an education and a functioning brain. Vox Day is a novelist and Christian libertarian. He is a member of the SFWA, Mensa and the Southern Baptist church, and has been down with Madden since 1992. Visit his Web log, Vox Popoli, for daily commentary and responses to reader email.
Poster Comment: I would quibble with his democide numbers. Additional research is available at http://www.hawaii.edu/powerkills/
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#1. To: Starwind (#0)
Jesus is the ONLY way to heaven.
From a utilitarian perspective, then, it makes a tremendous amount of sense for an individual or a society to live by the precepts of the Bible, even if one does so sans belief. Pretty much sums up where I'm at.
A "peaceful" religion would not embark on preemptive warfare. It is the "so-called" Christians like Bush and his tens of millions of "evangelical" followers who have given the Christian faith a bad name. I used to be a Southern Baptist also. But our pastor made it into a branch office of the GOP "War Party" after 9-11. He disregarded the clear teaching of Christ. People always believe what they want to and then try to cloak it in the name of some faith.
No assurance necessary ,if you're a believer ,you're NOT a thinker. You still cling to what you were taught as a child . You never grew up.
"Listen, I want to thank leaders of the — in the faith — faith-based and community-based community for being here." —George W. Bush, Washington, D.C., Sept. 6, 2005
If only there were such a thing as heaven...
It should be titled, The MYTH of the intelligent believer.
Ethiopia's Haile Srllassie had a brother named Silly Assie...!
Ditto here, although I've done some additional historical research. A gigantic chunk of the "Old Law" is found in the Code of Hammurabi, which predates the OT by a significant amount of time. Most societies have had some variation of the 10 Commandments which say, by and large, the exact same thing that the OT version does. I respectfully disagree that using the term "Biblical Principles" is correct since societies that *predate* the OT and also those who never heard of it have used the same principles.
Prove their isn't.
Reducto Ad Absurdum. It is the responsibility of those making a claim that something exists to prove its existance, not the other way around.
So if I say their are no rocks on the moon. Then you would have to prove it. Prove their are rocks on the moon.
Negative, that's not how things work. It might if we were talking about moon rocks, which one can see at a museum because we brought them back. But we're talking about claims to which there is no tangible proof here. It is impossible to prove a negative. However, it is possible to prove a positive. In the absence of positive proof, a claim of negativity may stand. WHEN there is positive proof, then the claim of negativity is blown away, but not until. Ergo, one can say simply, "I don't believe in Atlantis because there is no positive proof and not even a shred of anything to claim that it ever existed at all." -- and that's a valid statement. It would be up to people pushing the existance of Atlantis to back their claim. Same goes for anything else.
Prove they came from the moon. You can't. You have to accept it on FAITH.
So when Christopher columbus said the world was round. Just like the bible points out. Science said the earth was flat. I guess you think it really was flat until that moment columbus proved it wasn't. lol
Stone, it's there, not their. Their is a possessive pronoun.
My horoscope for today. Daily bad news reminds you that there will always be a colorful array of potential catastrophes available for your panicking pleasure. How appropriate.
Er, no, not faith, actual proof in the case of moon rocks can be offered. You can prove it because you can produce eyewitnesses and photos and rockets and other tangible proof that the rocks came from the moon. You can even take people to the moon (or virtually along for the ride via live video feeds) - you can invite them to the rocket launching so they can see it themselves and that would be satisfactory as proof for all but a person living in hardcore denial of reality. Additionally, one can test the rocks today and determine their makeup and use spectral analysis and other fancy tools to determine the moon's makeup from here on earth and do a correlation even if you don't buy into the rest of it. There is something physical and tangible that you can deal with as well as people you can quiz down.
Actually, the Church said the earth was flat because the Bible referred to "four corners" of it and made other references to a flat surface, like "standing on a mountain and surveying all of creation" which cannot be done with a round object.
Certain elements in the CHURCH may have thought it was round. However the BIBLE clearly says the earth is round. From Isiah....It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in: The bible is trustworthy. Those stupid "scientists" were wrong. The earth wasn't flat it was round like the bible always said.
Previous post should have said some elements in the church may have thought the earth was flat.
It says circle, not sphere. Sounds like they thought the Earth was a disk.
And I'm optimistic. See, I think you can be realistic and optimistic at the same time. I'm optimistic we'll achieve -- I know we won't achieve if we send mixed signals. I know we're not going to achieve our objective if we send mixed signals - gwbush
Boy!, did I just feel a cold draft in the room?
"Unthinking respect for authority is the greatest enemy of truth." - Albert Einstein
Which precepts? Sacrificing 7 lambs, 2 bullocks
and a partridge in a pear tree, saving the best morsels for Aarons priests?
Killing a pair or pidgeons and turtles and bathing one in the others blood for
a sin offering? Smiting the enemies (incl. cattle and children) of the
Lord's people? Pimping out one's spouse like Abraham did? Or the
numerous other abominations of our modern moral system?
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It is within the context of Christianity that Western Civilization and the "Enlightenment" grew to fullness. Science through mathematics, the language of science, has discovered there to be near-immutable mathematical laws of physics applicable to all the known universe. The atheists will admit that they "just are". That makes them none the less God's laws. We live in a regular, orderly universe not ruled by chance and I am always amused by the Evolutionists, who insist that evolutionary progress proceeded by chance, as anti-scientific an argument as can be found. However many sophists may dance on the head of a pin, atheism is simply not rational.
Then you would agree with the following: 1) Slavery should be legal and is moral The Bible gives guidelines on all of these. Society, on the other hand, has moved past all of these things, dragging the Church with it. Now, while I disagree that the Bible must be followed to the letter, it does give some good guidelines. Take the good and pitch the bad. I believe it was St. Paul who said to test all things, keep that which is good, and toss the rest. I don't recall the exact quote, so I paraphrase. The Bible is 100% true - it teaches *religious truth* - which may or may not have any bearing on reality. Just for fun, you should research Ben Franklin's fights with Fundamentalists over *lightening rods*. I'd be interested to see what your take on that is.
Francis Crick's (the discoverer of the structure of DNA) theory of directed panspermia, the hypothesis that all life on this planet and it's directed evolution has been seeded, or perhaps fertilized, by spores designed by a higher intelligence? He’s no intellectual midget by any stretch…. If we are indeed an alien experiment as some have hypothesized, then I suppose they are extremely disappointed in the outcome. From my perspective the Zen Buddhists have a better grip on life then most. Look we live in a reality that we can only sense through the limits of our senses. Based on our few senses and their limitation one could quickly understand just how little of reality we are capable of even being aware of. All our senses are deciphered by the limited capacity of our primitive primate brain with all the preconditioning caused by our experiences life. All of our happiness, joy, excitement, pain and so on are just neuropeptides or endorphins. We have control over our emotions, no one races up and give you a shot of a drug when you decide something in you life made you happy. No, you just decided to release the nueropeptides associated with happiness. As long as you are comfortable (good temperature, no pain), and fed, you have no excuses for not being happy. You really do control the rest…….. This crazy world competition, “I’m more educated, I own more expensive toys, I’m better looking, I have power and I’m smarter than you” mentalities make it so obvious to me just how unenlightened most people are and stuck in modes of programming they are letting others perform on them. A simple test for this is…..Lets say you are a gifted basket ball player and it makes you happy that you can jump so high and shoot so well, you leave the game with a high so vigorous you are just floating. Now lets say some genetic wizard does gene therapy on every person on Earth except you and makes them all 7 foot tall or better and increases their motor skills to the point where even the average Joe can shamefully outshoot you in a game of ball You now would not find yourself leaving the game with that same high now would you. Why not? You haven’t changed and you still have access to the same neuropeptides. It’s competition and we feel happy when we beat others. Second test….. The luxury car of your dreams of today would mean nothing to you found yourself in the future where everyone else’s car fly’s, goes 400 mph and has creature comforts we can only imagine. But somehow today some people have it in their heads, that they will be “happy” when they get that car, that huge house (with rooms they don’t use) or that ________ (fill in the blank). We have all been programmed to buy our happiness by a capitalist society run by people who want to use us as slaves to finance their lavish lifestyles. Remember how it all started….. Little Johnny got the medal for beating all the other boys in the foot race. They start early and it continues from there. People need to quit competing with one another and work together. This is the ONLY way to the utopia we all would like to see. Thanks…… I feel better
"Unthinking respect for authority is the greatest enemy of truth." - Albert Einstein
I know that. I don't know why I typed it that way. Go look at all the other times I've used there and their if you don't believe me.
Ping
"Unthinking respect for authority is the greatest enemy of truth." - Albert Einstein
Please excuse the errors in my previous post, I was typing in mad furry and did not peruse it very well.
"Unthinking respect for authority is the greatest enemy of truth." - Albert Einstein
Ping Please excuse the errors in my previous post, I was typing in mad furry and did not peruse it very well. You mean the names? :P
No post #21
"Unthinking respect for authority is the greatest enemy of truth." - Albert Einstein
Let's try this again....post #24
"Unthinking respect for authority is the greatest enemy of truth." - Albert Einstein
I was just teasing...
I'm humor challenged as of late.
"Unthinking respect for authority is the greatest enemy of truth." - Albert Einstein
Now thats not like you! Did it snow there today?
I think Nietzsche summarized it best (paraphrasing): Buddhism promises nothing and delivers nothing. Christianity makes lavish promises, but delivers nothing. Think about it, the only impetuses for following the religion is to avoid punishment of the worst sort and/or from the narcissistic view of enjoying eternal bliss. It's funny how today we laugh at the Egyptians for thinking they could bring their posessions to the afterlife, how naive, right. Well what are memories, experiences and consciousness? The most intimate posessions we have. People who pine to take those with them forever are like children. Nobody, and I mean nobody else believes/follows/whatever for any other reason. Reward or aversion to punishment. That's it. No wonder Yahweh is uptight.
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Good stuff....
"Unthinking respect for authority is the greatest enemy of truth." - Albert Einstein
I'm an intelligent believer in God, or a cosmic entity that encompasses the entire universe. I do not however believe in ANY organized religion as being the ONLY way to any kind of good or bad heaven. Here's why. I have several books about comparative religion going back into history to the time of the Sumerians. These were the people who had the first recorded history and religions. Let me explain something to all of the people who think that Jesus Christ is the only God who died, and was resurrected. There have always been gods who did this very same thing. They healed the sick, they brought peace wherever they went. They taught people how to live. There have and always will be people who we deify. When someone wants to get really picky about how Jesus Christ is the only way to heaven, I refer them to the story of Zoroaster. Enough said. I believe in God, oh yes I do. Do I believe in the so called Devil? No, but I believe that people on THIS fricking planet are inclined to doing great acts of evil, moreso that being a good, or virtuous person, which is why they need religions of all kinds to keep them on the narrow path. I am good by CHOICE. By VIRTUE, I am a decent, moral and ethical person. I am this way, because it is the path that I CHOOSE. God probably put me in the right place at the right time, but every day I have to fight to be this good person, because deep down inside I know I am NOT. In fact, I am capable of great evil, which is why choosing a Good life, and path is always fraught with pitfalls, and temptations. To think that everything God is can be found in one book, is to diminish God. The God I believe in doesn't care what I do with my life, so long as what I do is Good. The God I believe in doesn't take sides, because this world is a test to see which side, good or evil will prevail. It is by our deeds and choices that we turn the tide, and not because it is written in a book somewhere so that someone can use that book to lord over us, and extort money and fealty from us. The God I believe in is far more than I can imagine, and far more than any library of books could ever hold. To ascribe the idea that only ONE faith is the true path to God, is to think that there is only one kind of coffee that is good.
#2. To: Starwind (#0)
Good piece.
"Work!"
-- Maynard G. Krebs
#3. To: Starwind (#0)
#4. To: Starwind (#0)
Let me begin by assuring the reader that I am no genius, except by some outmoded and ill-chosen intelligence classifications.
#5. To: A K A Stone (#1)
Jesus is the ONLY way to heaven.
#6. To: Starwind (#0)
The irony of the intelligent believer
#7. To: Tauzero (#2)
Pretty much sums up where I'm at.
#8. To: Mr Nuke Buzzcut (#5)
If only there were such a thing as heaven...
#9. To: A K A Stone (#8)
Prove their isn't.
#10. To: mirage (#9)
#11. To: A K A Stone (#10)
So if I say their are no rocks on the moon. Then you would have to prove it. Prove their are rocks on the moon.
#12. To: mirage (#11)
Negative, that's not how things work. It might if we were talking about moon rocks, which one can see at a museum because we brought them back.
#13. To: mirage (#11)
#14. To: A K A Stone (#10)
#15. To: A K A Stone (#12)
Prove they came from the moon. You can't. You have to accept it on FAITH.
#16. To: A K A Stone (#13)
Science said the earth was flat
#17. To: mirage (#16)
Actually, the Church said the earth was flat because the Bible referred to "four corners" of it and made other references to a flat surface, like "standing on a mountain and surveying all of creation" which cannot be done with a round object.
#18. To: All (#17)
#19. To: A K A Stone (#17)
#20. To: christine (#14)
Stone, it's there, not their. Their is a possessive pronoun.
#21. To: Starwind (#0)
From a utilitarian perspective, then, it makes a tremendous
amount of sense for an individual or a society to live by the precepts of the
Bible
#22. To: Starwind (#0)
#23. To: A K A Stone (#17)
The bible is trustworthy.
2) Book burnings should be regularly taking place (see Acts for details)
3) Misbehaving children should be stoned at the city gates
#24. To: Dude Lebowski (#21)
From a utilitarian perspective, then, it makes a tremendous amount of sense for an individual or a society to live by the precepts of the Bible
#25. To: christine (#14)
Stone, it's there, not their. Their is a possessive pronoun.
#26. To: All, lodwick, Zipporah, wbales, who knows what evil, Soda Pop, Red Jones, christine, robin, wakeup, Diana, YertleTurtle, Elliott Jackalope, TommyTheMadArtist, BTP Holdings (#24)
#27. To: All (#26)
#28. To: timetobuildaboat (#27)
All, lodwick, Zipporah, wbales, who knows what evil, Soda Pop, Red Jones, christine, robin, wakeup, Diana, YertleTurtle, Elliott Jackalope, TommyTheMadArtist, BTP Holdings
#29. To: Zipporah (#28)
You mean the names? :P
#30. To: Zipporah (#28)
You mean the names? :P
#31. To: timetobuildaboat (#30)
#32. To: Zipporah (#31)
#33. To: timetobuildaboat (#32)
I'm humor challenged as of late.
#34. To: timetobuildaboat (#24)
From my perspective the Zen Buddhists have a better grip on life then most.
#35. To: Dude Lebowski (#34)
I think Nietzsche summarized it best (paraphrasing): Buddhism promises nothing and delivers nothing. Christianity makes lavish promises, but delivers nothing.
#36. To: Starwind (#0)
 | So many morons, so few bullets. |
#37. To: TommyTheMadArtist (#36)
Not only that, but Pythagoras was a legend in his own time and was said to have been born to a virgin mother.
Let me explain something to all of the people who think that Jesus Christ is the only God who died, and was resurrected. There have always been gods who did this very same thing. They healed the sick, they brought peace wherever they went. They taught people how to live. There have and always will be people who we deify.
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#38. To: TommyTheMadArtist (#36)
And being first makes their writings believable because...well, why? What "gods" died and then resurrected themselves? And how will Zoroaster get you to heaven? Agreed. Everything God is can not be found in the Bible. Everything God is can be found in an eternal relationship with Him via His indwelt Holy Spirit offered to believers by His Son Jesus Christ. The Bible doesn't provide that, it only points out the way. There is only one God, right? Surely you're not going to argue there are many identical God's, though there may be many beliefs. But if there is only one true God, the one and only God who created the universe, mankind, set the laws of physics in motion, and is sovereign over all, then surely that God would not have revealed Himself in multiple, different and contrary religious philosophies. No, the one true God would declare the one truth, not multiple truths. And where is that one truth? The one truth that has demonstrated it's self- consistency and accuracy down through the millenia as being the revealed word of God, wherein God Himself declared the one true path to Him? Sincerely, do not blame God (or Jesus) for what others wrongfully do in His name. Just because someone claims to be a Christian and goes off crusading and piliging doesn't mean Christ directed or condoned those actions, nor does it mean God will allow those sinful deeds to go unpunished. Don't blame God for the self-serving and manipulative Bible interpretations used by men. The Pharisees did the same thing and Jesus called them a brood of vipers and white-washed selpuchres whose father was satan. Likewise do not blame the Bible because of the mistakes and shortcomings of its readers. We believe in and support a Constitution but we don't blame the constitution for what Presidents Clinton, Bush, etc.. have done to it or inspite of it. No, we blame them for not following the constitution. Likewise, blame people who claim to be Christian but don't follow the bible. Put your blame where it belongs, not on Jesus, God or the Bible. Just because someone claims to be a Christian, doesn't necessarily make it so, and those who claim to be Christian and talk-the-talk but don't walk-the-walk probably aren't.
the Sumerians. These were the people who had the first recorded history and religions.
Let me explain something to all of the people who think that Jesus Christ is the only God who died, and was resurrected. There have always been gods who did this very same thing.
When someone wants to get really picky about how Jesus Christ is the only way to heaven, I refer them to the story of Zoroaster.
To think that everything God is can be found in one book, is to diminish God.
To ascribe the idea that only ONE faith is the true path to God, is to think that there is only one kind of coffee that is good.
and not because it is written in a book somewhere so that someone can use that book to lord over us, and extort money and fealty from us.
(The Gospel of Jesus Christ is the only true good news)
#39. To: Starwind (#38)
Yahweh sure seemed to think do. Read Exodus 12:12. "Against all the gods of Egypt I will execute judgement." He wasn't talking about man (Pharoes, etc), because clearly he had made that distinction elsewhere. I doubt it meant objects of idolatry because why do static objects require judgement?
There is only one God, right? Surely you're not going to argue there are many identical God's
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#40. To: A K A Stone (#1)
True enough, if you broaden your perspective a little. Bible readers recognize this concept and usually take it to mean that you must believe in Jesus and/or the atonement doctrine in order to get into heaven. It could be argued that Jesus is the Gatekeeper and He decides who goes through and He may be a little more tolerant of those who may not necessarily accept Jesus as their personal savior. I think Jesus will let lots of folks, who do not know Him, come right on in. Those who believe in the one God, get a free ride. Remember, He and His Dad are eternally merciful and know our hearts.
Jesus is the ONLY way to heaven.
Adolf Hitler... "What luck for rulers that men do not think." John F. Kennedy... "Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable."
#41. To: A K A Stone (#8)
You can't prove a negative.
If only there were such a thing as heaven... Prove their isn't.
Adolf Hitler... "What luck for rulers that men do not think." John F. Kennedy... "Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable."
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