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Title: Homosexuality is a Sin
Source:
jesus-is-savior.com
URL Source: http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/Evil ... omy/homosexuality_is_a_sin.htm
Published: Nov 23, 2005
Author: ?
Post Date: 2005-11-23 20:34:23 by A K A Stone
Keywords: Homosexuality
Views: 14531
Comments: 1391
The homosexual activist movement and organized pedophiles are linked together by a common goal: To gain access to children for seduction into homosexuality.
Serial killers, government tyrants, academic liberals, Catholic priests, politicians, Mormon Church higher-ups, Jewish rabbis, environmental extremists, communists, religious heretics, mass murderers, occultists, spies, and the Illuminati share something hideous and grotesque in common. Almost all are homo-sexual. Worse, most of the sick-minded men who comprise these demented social groups are not only homosexual, they practice the most kinky and perverted forms of sexual licentiousness-pedophilia, satanic bondage, physical torture, bisexuality, transvestitism, and even bestiality.
If you doubt this, I invite you to consider the wicked lives of some of these moral degenerates—men like Lenin, Mussolini, Hitler, Marx, Jim Jones, Alfred Kinsey, Michael Jackson, Jacques DeMolay, Bill Clinton, Jim Bakker, Jimmy Swaggart, Mick Jagger, Aleister Crowley, Hubert Humphrey, Paul Tsongas, Martin Luther King, Mario Cuomo, Rudy Giuliani, Jeffrey Dahmer, Richard Speck, and John Wayne Gacy.
Homosexuality in the Mystery Religions
In the ancient pagan Mystery Religions, homosexuality and pedophilia were popularized. Worshippers of Baal erected shrines and temples of male prostitution (I Kings 14). Roman Emperors Nero, Caligula, and Commodus engaged in incest, sex with boys, bondage, and a variety of evil crimes. So, too, did those in Pharaoh's court. Alexander the Great was a homosexual who loved little boys.
When the Spanish Conquistadors conquered Central America and the Yucatan in Mexico, they found that most native Indian priests were sodomites. In their pagan temples were sacred statues depicting gay sex acts. In Babylon, people sacrificed and prayed to gods and goddesses requesting sexual favors and carnal pleasures.
Seal of Knights Templar
Two versions of the official seal of the Knights Templar, precursors of the Freemasons. Note that in the version at right, the two riders carry a shield. But, in the other version of the seal (left), one's shield is gone and the knight has placed his hand in a most sensitive area of his body.
The Knights Templar and Baphomet
In the 14th century, a Catholic band of crusaders known as the Order of Knights Templar grew in power and riches. They and their leader, their Sovereign Grand Master, Frenchman Jacques DeMolay, built temples and tabernacles of worship. Only Knights Templar initiates could enter therein. Soon, reports spread of the grotesque and unseemly mode of worship of these depraved men. Their secret religion was based on worship of an androgynous (1/2 male, 1/2 female) satanic goat god named Baphomet.
In the Knights Templar rituals, a crucifix of Jesus was reviled and urinated on, and homosexual orgies were rumored. Strangely, the seal, or coat of arms, of the Order depicted two knights riding on one horse! Was this an emblem of their homosexual passion or, as the Templars protested, a statement of their "brotherly love?"
When the rumors and gossip of their antichrist activities reached a feverish pitch, the Kings of continental Europe were forced to move against the Order. Their Sovereign Grand Master, DeMolay, was tried, convicted and burned at the stake, their temples shut down. Amazingly, the Knights Templar survived, hiding out in Scotland and underground in Europe. Then, in the 1800s, they made a startling comeback in the new form of Freemasonry! Today, the Masonic youth group is even named the DeMolays. Bill Clinton, as a teenager, was a member of this organization. Baphomet
Baphomet, the half male, half female goat god of the Knights Templar, was revived by Eliphas Levi, the infamous 19th century Freemason and magician and reportedly is worshipped today by homosexual cults.
Communists, Homosexuality, and Perversion
Communism, as propounded by Satanist Karl Marx, was an offshoot of Templarism. As Jüri Lina documents in his sensational book, Under the Sign of the Scorpion, Vladimir Lenin, the communist monster who founded the bloody communist regime in Soviet Russia, frequented brothels and maintained three mistresses.
Laventi Beria, Stalin's decadent Chief of Secret Police, a man who arrested, tortured, imprisoned, and executed some 20 million innocent victims in Russia, was truly a heinous sex criminal. Beria would have his chauffeur drive him around Moscow in a limo evenings searching for a young girl or boy out walking alone. Then, Beria would order his security police to grab and kidnap the hapless youth. What horrible fate transpired to such victims I do not wish to recount here. Obviously, Stalin knew of Beria's evil criminality and had no objections.
Hitler & Mussolini enjoy a homoerotic exhibit
In 1937 at the House of German Art Museum, Nazi Führer Hitler and Italian dictator Mussolini enjoy a homoerotic exhibit—an immense statue of two naked muscular men holding hands. (For decency's sake, Power of Prophecy has blackened out the genital area of one of the naked men pictured)
The Pink Swastika
Hitler, Nazi founder, was similarly a sex pervert. As Chancellor, he carried on sexually with his 15-year-old niece, who killed herself rather than continue giving in to his bizarre and beastly sexual fetishes. As a young Bohemian streetwalker and "starving artist," the man who later would rule most of Europe sold his body to gay men.
Hitler is noted as a fanatical fan of Wagnerian operas. Less known is the fact that before he rose to become the Fuhrer, in the 1920s, Hitler sexually abused Richard Wagner's grandson, Wieland Wagner (Time magazine, August 15, 1994, p. 56).
Hitler, of course, was catapulted to power largely by the Brown Shirts (SA), a fascist youth organization led by and composed primarily of "butch" type homosexual militarists. The head of the thuggish Brown Shirts was Ernst Roehm, who was a notorious molester of young boys. Roehm was executed by Hitler after his sexual excesses became widely known.
As Scott Lively writes in his revealing book, The Pink Swastika-Homosexuality and the Nazi Party, "Homosexuals are the perfect foot soldiers for the devil."
Interestingly, Hitler and his henchmen intensely disliked feminine gay men, even sent many to concentration camps. The Nazis preferred masculine, butch, soldier-types-like Field Marshall Reinhard Heydrich-willing to take orders. On the other hand, in Soviet Russia, the Communists and Bolsheviks favored gay Jews with female traits and affectations.
Religious Sodomites are Legion
Religious fakes who are sodomites predominate. Jim Bakker, PTL televangelist disgraced and defrocked for sexually abusing church secretary Jessica Hahn, actually preferred young boys. He frequently had young homo staffers go swimming nude with he and his top aides. Like Bakker, Assembly of God television preacher Jimmy Swaggert also was a sexual deviant-reportedly into porno literature, trampy prostitutes, etc. He stayed away from real sex with real women-desired bizarre acts.
Satan loves to debauch religious charlatans. A headline in The Houston Chronicle newspaper, page one of its May 9, 1999 issue, trumpeted, "Mormons Caught up in Wave of Pedophile Accusations." In fact, Power of Prophecy has received startling information about satanic rituals and pedophile Mormon elders in the so-called Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints (LDS). No Wonder! Joseph Smith and Brigham Young, Mormon founders, took numerous wives, and Smith was an occultist and sexual pervert of the highest order, as even many of his biographers confess.
Legions of Catholic priests are now recognized as plunderers of little boys. It is estimated that at least 80 percent of all Catholic priests are queers, and most nuns are lesbians! Father Ritter, the priest who founded Covenant House, a New York City shelter, to "help" homeless teens, was discovered to be molesting his charges. At Boys Town, the famous Catholic boys' orphanage founded by Father Flanagan (played by actor Spencer Tracy in the classic movie), a scandal recently broke when it got out that little boys were being passed around by priests to local gay politicians.
Some orphans from Omaha's Boys Town were even flown to Washington, D.C. for sex parties with top-level Republican Party chieftains. You can read about this in John Van De Camp's shocking exposé, The Franklin Cover-up (available from Power of Prophecy, $15, book order-line 800-234-9673).
Religious cultist Jim Jones, who, the controlled news media alleged, induced hundreds of his followers to commit mass suicide in Guyana by drinking poisoned Kool-Aid (actually, most were murdered—but that's another story) was both a Communist and a vile homosexual. Jim Jones was also a leading Democratic Party boss in California and a loyal initiate of the Masonic Lodge. The filthy Reverend Jones had his choice of boys, girls, and grown-ups among his "congregation" as sex partners.
David Koresh of Branch Davidian infamy had a taste for young girls and other men's wives, claiming that, as the Messiah, he had a perfect right. Strangely, Koresh was murdered at the behest of Janet Reno, a butch lesbian; FBI Director Louis Freeh, a member of the reportedly homosexual-oriented Opus Dei Catholic secret society; and Hillary Clinton, a flaming, lesbian activist.
Bill Clinton and other Homosexual Masons
President Bill Clinton became famous for the Monica Lewinsky affair. But actually, Bill Clinton never had conventional sexual relations with the young Jewish woman. Clinton enjoys kinky perversion and it is well known in some circles that old Bill is bisexual. Indeed, Clinton is a woman-hater, and documented evidence proves he has brutally raped at least two women.
One report says that Bill Clinton and a former pal, Arkansas Governor, Winthrop Rockefeller, had a fling. Winthrop, of the monied Rockefeller family, was well known as a homosexual. It is also possible that Clinton was himself abused and molested as a youthful member of the Masonic Lodge's DeMolay organization.
Albert Pike, the 19th century occultist who, as Masonry's Sovereign Grand Commander, created its rituals for the 33 degrees of the craft, was himself a notorious sodomite. Albert Pike
Albert Pike
"Cuomo the Homo"
Political networks of both political parties are eaten up by gay men. Former New York Governor Mario Cuomo, a Democrat, has been labeled "Cuomo the Homo." New York's former Mayor, Rudy Giuliani, a Republican, has been known to dress up as a woman transvestite.
The Mayor also carried on an open affair with a female assistant. And when Giuliani and his wife separated, the Mayor moved in with two gay male friends. He now resides in the Manhattan apartment the gay couple share.
Rudia
New York's Mayor Rudolph Giuliani performed on stage as "Rudia," transvestite, at the annual Inner Circle banquet for the elite. Giuliani now lives in an apartment with two homosexual men but has a female lover. Time magazine named Giuliani its "Person of the Year" for 2001.
Indeed, according to The New York Times, the Mayor actually performed in female attire, posing as "Rudia the Transvestite" at a nightclub. The occasion: The annual "Inner Circle" show.
The late Senator and Vice-President Hubert Humphrey often frolicked about nude in the YMCA swimming pool in Minneapolis. President Lyndon B. Johnson skinny-dipped with male friends, including evangelist Billy Graham and his Vice President, Hubert. In fact, the "Y" is a popular meeting place for homo politicians and religious bigwigs. The gay disco group, The Village People, in coded language revealed such wicked goings on in their national hit record tune, Y-M-C-A!
The Republicans even have a sodomite lobby group, which calls itself the Log Cabin Republicans. Senator Bob Dole heavily pandered to these "conservative" queers during his presidential campaign.
Same Sex Marriages
This year the Mayor of San Francisco, California broke the law by issuing Same Sex marriage licenses to homosexual couples at City Hall and performing marriages. Among those who practice perversion to get “married” were celebrity Rosie O’Donnell and her lesbian girlfriend. Rosie attacked President Bush right after the ceremony stating that they performed this so-called “marriage” as an act of defiance against President Bush and those who oppose the homosexual agenda.
Well thank God the California State Supreme Court ruled that the Mayor overstepped his boundaries. The California State Supreme Court further annulled all 4000 homosexual marriages that were performed including Rosie’s, deeming them illegal, null and void! Chalk one up for our side!
Has this stopped the homosexual agenda? Not on your life. The Democratic Party nation wide is endorsing Same Sex marriages and helping to push the homosexual agenda through the legal system.
Sadly many Christians support Same Sex Marriages either by openly supporting this travesty or remaining silent and refusing to get involved. Silence means approval in this case.
You cannot call yourself a Christian and be a supporter of Same Sex Marriages. It is against the word of God to support any homosexual agenda. The bible says it is sin period. Leviticus 18:22 22 "`Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman; that is detestable." Leviticus 20:13. "If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them."
1 Corinthians 6:9-10 9 Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders 10 nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.
Romans 1:25-27 25 They exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator-- who is forever praised. Amen. 26 Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. 27 In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion.
Genesis 19:1-29 says God destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah because of homosexuality. It stinks in the nostrils of God. Genesis 13:13 identify the men of Sodom as exceedingly wicked sinners. Genesis 18:20 says that the sin of Sodom is "very grievous." Genesis 18:23 adds emphasis to the portrayal of the inhabitants of Sodom as "wicked." Genesis 18:24-33 shows that God could not find even 10 righteous souls in Sodom. The perverts who inhabited Sodom, even wanted to rape God's Angels who had come to Sodom to rescue Lot.
It is clear. The same sex marriage agenda is against God, and is SIN, and that my friend is the bottom-line because the Word of Our Most Holy God says so.
The homosexual agenda not only includes Same Sex Marriage but they have successfully pushed forward their lifestyles to the public over the television sets conditioning the public to accept their perversion and depravity. TV shows like “Will and Grace”, “Queer Eye For The Straight Guy”, “The L Word”, “Queer Folks”, MTV Videos, and even cartoons such as “The Simpsons”, and “Southpark” portray Christians who take a stand against homosexuality as evil, hateful, and wacky, while portraying the homosexual lifestyle as normal. As if there wasn’t enough shows on TV promoting homosexuality, MTV is preparing to launch a “24-Hour All-Gay All Day Channel” which will include programming geared at teaching kids that it is cool to be a homosexual and perfectly normal. They will even include a homosexual dating game. Now I am going to have to be a little crude here, but parents need to know about this so they can keep their kids from watching these shows. As if Jerry Springer wasn’t enough, with promoting homosexuality in just about every show whipping the audience into a frenzy as they scream and yell, “We Love Lesbians” while girls get naked and lick all over each other right in front of a nationwide live audience! Springer features homosexual sodomites that kiss and fondle each other while the audience cheers them on. Parents, Jerry Springer is shown in many states around 3-4pm in the afternoon, so you should know that might be what your kids are watching when they get home from school. Now they will have the 24-Hour All Gay All Day Channel to look at also! Your kids also are subjected to singers who promote the homosexual lifestyle such as open lesbian singers Tatu, Melissa Etheridge, and K.D. Lang, along with open bisexual Satan worshipper Marilyn Manson who encourages homosexuality among children.
Once upon a time in America, we used to have a thing called morality and laws that protected the children and the average family. One could be arrested for indecent exposure in America, but now it is not uncommon to drive down the streets of LA or New York City and see some homosexual doing ungodly things to his buddy right there on the corner. The police turn a blind eye to this and I am sure in places like California some cops would gladly join in disgusting episodes of sodomy.
In the 1970’s Anita Bryant took a stand for decency and morality standing up and speaking out against the homosexual agenda. For her efforts, she was rewarded with being abandoned by the Christian churches across the Nation and ultimately suffered a divorce when the homosexuals began to make phone calls to the churches she was speaking at threatening to blow them up. The churches decided to give in to this terrorist tactic and abandon Anita. Then in the 1980’s Pastor Jerry Falwell took a stand against the homosexual agenda and many leading pastors and churches also ostracized him across the country as being a little too political and getting off focus of preaching the gospel. As a result the churches joined in with the liberal media in labeling Falwell as a hatemonger. Well today, churches are getting to reap what they have sown. Galatians 6:7 "Be not deceived, God is not mocked; for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.".
Gary Condit, Satanism, and Homosexuality
The Democrats don't need an exclusive special homo group. Almost all active Democratic Party political professionals are bisexual and gay. Those who aren't are into other weird, abnormal sexual behavior—satanic sex bondage rituals, etc.
Congressman Gary Condit, suspected of having something to do with the disappearance of intern Chandra Levy, is known in the Washington, D.C. gay community as a bisexual into major sexual deviance.
Butch
A "butch" type homosexual shows off at a "Gay Pride" demonstration. Reportedly, Congressman Gary Condit also wears leather and homo-fascist garb when in bed in threesomes with men and women.
Condit reportedly dresses up in leather and chains, practices satanic bondage, and has had multiple male sex partners. Condit, an owner of a Harley Davidson motorcycle, is also a regular at Hell's Angels biker parties, especially when "butch" male homo bikers are throwing a shindig. Yet, Condit enjoys degrading and despoiling young women, too. Clintonesque, isn't he?
Remember Senator Paul Tsongas, the Massachusetts Democrat who ran for President and was so beloved by the media? Well, as The Washington Post newspaper (2/4/92) noted, the gay Mr. Tsongas had quite a stable of homo pals. He was noted for lustfully staring at young men's bodies, and the newspaper remarked that, "No one sat around the pool when Paul Tsongas was there."
Massachusetts Democrat Congressman Barney Frank (whom a Texas Republican congressman once called "Barney Fag") and his live-in male lover were discovered several years ago running a homosexual prostitution ring out of Frank's home. An attempt in the House of Representatives to censor Frank for his criminal misconduct fell flat when Republican leader Newt Gingrich came to his rescue. House Speaker Gingrich later resigned after it was about to come out that he was cheating on his wife with a female member of his own congressional staff. Gingrich warmly praised homosexuals in Congress for their "courage in running for office."
Homosexuality A "Wonderful Thing"—Al Gore
Former Vice President Al Gore and his wife, Tipper, also were big backers of queers and sodomites. In June 2000, Al and Tipper threw a party in their home for 150 brazen homos. Gore gushingly told the group, "It's a wonderful thing to do what you are doing… It's an outgrowth of the way you live your entire lives."
Say what, Al? Are you kidding us? Homos are the ominous bringers of AIDS, a variety of other sexual diseases, wide-ranging child abuse and molestation, and sundry other evils-and you say that's a "wonderful thing?"
Recently, some 600 homosexual congressmen and politicians threw another wild party, this time inside a certain federal building in Washington, D.C. Security guards were led to vomit at what they saw going on inside and even outside, on the grounds. You may be interested in knowing that among the "proud" sponsors of this disgusting homo-sex gala were wealthy corporations such as American Airlines, Snapple beverages, Miller Lite beer, Starbucks coffee, and Ben and Jerry's ice cream.
Gay Jews and Hollywood
Jewish rabbis and intellectuals are into homosexuality in a big way. James Klugman, British Communist Party leader; U.S. Supreme Court Justice Stephen Breyer; wealthy socialist Victor Rothschild; and British economist John Maynard Keynes come to mind. The ADL, ACLU, and Southern Poverty Law Center are Jewish organizations noted both for their antichrist liberal views and the perverted sexual orientation of some of their leaders.
Jewish rabbis are frequently in the news, with charges of child molestation highlighted. Meanwhile, Jews virtually run the entire inter-national porn industry. Even Jerusalem World Report, a prominent Jewish publication, has admitted that the kingpins of the "ecstasy" drug trade are Jews based in Israel.
Michael Eisner, a Jew and head of Disney Corporation, is actively pushing the gay agenda, as are most other Hollywood moguls—almost all of whom are Jewish. Sodomite Tom Schumaker was chosen by Disney to be executive producer of the kids movie, The Lion King. Homosexual singer Elton John was chosen to do the music score for the movie. Schumaker brags that Disney is actively recruiting homosexuals and that already, "There are a lot of gay people at every level" in the company.
Sharon Stone
Actress Sharon Stone said she relished her role in one film as a masculine lesbian lover.
Hollywood has long been much more gay than traditional America has known. The Christ-hating Jews that run the movie industry have always gotten their kicks from secretly pushing homosexual actors and actresses into leading roles as "romantic" leads. Katherine Hepburn was a lesbian deceptively dressed up as a lover of men like Spencer Tracy. Lesbian actress Marlene Dietrich pranced about in male suits with pants and yet the movie audiences were led to believe she was "All Woman." Male stars like comedian Danny Kaye and British actor Laurence Olivier were lovers, and comedian Jack Benny was queer as a three-dollar bill.
Pedophile Criminals Evade Punishment
In places like Hollywood and San Francisco, homosexual crime is rampant and never do the police intervene. Pedophile black singer Michael Jackson molests little boys and jokes are made—but no arrest. Little boys are molested at gay masquerade balls, and police look the other way. Corrupt Congressmen back in Washington know, but they are too busy running their own sex rings to care. Washington, D.C. is a place where homosexual masked men and women cavort in secret places—mansions, federal building auditoriums, military installations, and so forth. In November of 2003 Jackson was arrested on allegations of molesting several young boys at his Neverland Ranch in California. He was released the next day on $3,000,000 bond to go back to Las Vegas to finish a music video. Unbelievably, authorities said they didn't want to bring any official charges until after the Thanksgiving Day holiday (in spite of concrete testimony from one of the young victims and evidence found at the ranch). So they just let him go free in public!
Michael Jackson then! Michael Jackson Today!
Rock Music Stars
Heavy metal rock music stars are predominantly homosexual. That's the reason for the leather garb, the satanic tattoos, the long hair, and the transvestite make-up and appearance. Perhaps the top rock idol of all time, Mick Jagger of the Rolling Stones group, is a sick bisexual. In her autobiography, Marianne Faithful wrote that, while in bed with her, Mick Jagger said, "If Keith (a member of his band) were here right now, I'd lick him all over."
And some Christian parents allow their kids to listen to the music of these addle-brained homo sickos!
Michael Jackson
Singer/entertainer Michael Jackson reportedly molested little boys, then paid their parents hush money. Police and law enforcement looked the other way.
Sodomite Freddie Mercury of the rock band, Queen, died of AIDS at only 46 years of age. He reportedly had homosexual lovers all over the world.
Mick Jagger
Moral reprobate Mick Jagger, initiated into the Rock 'n' Roll Hall of Fame, has talked openly about how much he enjoys performing sex acts on other men.
Sodomites Madonna and Britney Spears. The Bible expressly forbids such homosexual activities.
Sodomites Madonna and Britney Spears
Left: Tolerant Americans have made lesbian activist, comedian Rosie O'Donnell, a rich and famous entertainer. O'Donnell and her homosexual partner were allowed by Florida to adopt a child. She is pictured here off-stage with Britain's Boy George, a popular actor and singer who starred in a Broadway production, Taboo.
Above: Tammy Faye Messner (formerly Tammy Faye Bakker of PTL fame) recently helped host a "drag bingo" fund-raising event to generate money for homosexual causes. Tammy Faye reportedly had lesbian sex with another "Christian" woman while married to her TV evangelist husband, Jim Bakker. (Note: Jim Bakker was himself a notorious closet homosexual.) (Photo: The Herald Sun, Jan. 6, 2004)
Left: The Episcopal Church recently elevated a gay activist, the "Reverend" Gene Robinson, to the high position of Bishop. Robinson earlier had abandoned his wife and children and began shacking up with a homosexual lover. The Episcopal Church had no problem with his behavior and declared him a "man of God." (Photo: Newsweek, Nov. 17, 2003)
Serial Killers are Homosexuals
However, if you really want to know to what depths of degradation the homosexual lifestyle takes people, all you need to do is study the inner lives of the world's most dangerous criminals—serial killers. In his book, Violence and Homosexuality, Dr. Paul Cameron noted that the top serial killers were all homosexual: "The nexus between homosexuality and violence is notorious. We have motorcycle gangs, black leather boys and rough trade addicted to chains, torture, slaves, and sadism. Hitler rose on the backs of "Storm Troopers" led from the top by a gang of homosexuals headed by Ernst Roehm."
According to the Associated Press, as reported in Christian News newspaper (July 23, 2001 p. 3), the seven worst serial killers in the U.S.A. were all homosexual deviates:
o Donald Harvey - 37 murders o John Wayne Gacy - 33 murders o Patrick Kearney - 32 murders o Bruce Davis - 28 murders o Dean Corll, Elmer Wayne Henley, and David Owen Brooks - 27 murders
The monstrous conduct of these homo killers is almost beyond belief. John Wayne Gacy, the sadistic torturer and raper of 33 boys, dressed up as a circus clown to attract victims. "A clown can get away with murder," Gacy once boasted.
Jeffrey Dahmer, who was a satanist and a cannibal, homosexually raped and killed 17 boys and young men after slipping "knockout" pills in their drinks. He attempted to keep some alive as sex zombies, but they, too, died from his fiendish brain operations.
Mormons caught up in wave of pedophile accusations Catholic priests are not the only religious leaders molesting children today, as evidenced by this newspaper headline in the Houston Chronicle.
Why is it the controlled mass media never tells America these savage serial murderers are always homosexuals? Why do CBS, ABC, NBC, and all the others cover-up and consistently paint gays as gentle, loving, caring, and compassionate humanitarians? Is it not because most of the TV and news executives and broadcasters are themselves homosexual, bisexual perverts and weirdos?
The case of homo serial killer Andrew Cunanan is interesting in that most of Cunanan's victims were themselves gay men. Among the five men he killed in a cross-country spree was wealthy fashion designer Gianni Versace. Time magazine (April 5, 1999) commented that Cunanan was "a gregarious, wildly clever mythomaniac and petty thief in the kinky gay netherworld of alcohol, drugs, prostitution, and sadomasochism." Andrew Cunanan's torrent of death ended in 1997 in Miami Beach with the demon-possessed homosexual taking his own life.
Reliable sources tell us that Andrew Cunanan's rage was triggered when he was horribly abused at a Chicago mansion during a homo-satanic ritual at a gay "masquerade ball." Cunanan, a handsome but confused young man in his 20s, had been used as a sexual gigolo by an inner circle of rich, gay Illuminati adepts—he was passed around and used up like a mildewed sack of potatoes. Gianni Versace, a billionaire who had singer Elton John as one of the frequent live-ins at his luxurious residence, was reputed to be a figure in this inner circle of kinky Illuminist homosexuals.
Why are homosexuals almost uniformly so corrupt, evil, and wicked? The truth is that such men (and women) have spiritually been turned over to Satan. The scriptures declare that the grievous and damaging sin of homosexuality leads one straight to a reprobate mind. The world applauds and rewards the homosexual, but God brands this conduct as "vile," "unclean," "unnatural" (Romans 1:24-32) and an "abomination" (Leviticus 18:22; Deuteronomy 23:17-18; I Kings 14:24).
Thomas Jefferson- "Castrate Homosexuals!"
Thomas Jefferson, one of our nation's illustrious founders, was not, history records, a strong biblical Christian. Yet, as Governor of Virginia, in 1779 Jefferson introduced bills to punish homosexual sodomy with the penalty being banishment and castration. There is no record that anyone at the time accused Mr. Jefferson of bigotry or hatred. Americans back then were a great degree wiser than they are today.
Bill Clinton & Paul Tsongas
Then Arkansas Governor Bill Clinton and U.S. Senator Paul Tsongas (D-Mass) were Democratic presidential candidates in 1992. Like many other Democratic politicians, both were bisexual.
Today, no politician, no king, no man admired by the public dares to declare the homosexual what he is: a "sinful reprobate." If they were to do so, their heads would, figuratively, be immediately lopped off by the media, and their careers and reputations destroyed. However, the biblical Christian has no option but to tell the truth—that homosexuality is a vile abomination, for God Almighty has declared it. And who among all the world's powerful and famous can reasonably criticize His commandments? Who is so foolish as to even attempt to annul His decision?
Clinton Featured at http://www.gayheroes.com
"I am proud of the part that my Administration has played to achieve these goals. Today, more openly gay and lesbian individuals serve in senior posts throughout the Federal Government than during any other Administration." -President Bill Clinton, June 2nd, 2000
SEE I TOLD YOU SO
For years I have been warning the public about Hillary Clinton's penchant for lesbian proclivities; a precursor to her sadistic megalomaniac behaviors.
Now, after many years of public apprehension the controversy has been confirmed by insider sources and will soon be revealed to the public.
According to a published article in the March 28 issue of a prominent magazine the "GLOBE," "reliable sources will soon release a shocking list of Hillary's lesbian lovers from the past and including the present." According to reliable sources the list includes:
* A beauty in her early 30s who often travels with Hillary. * A popular TV and movie star. * The daughter of a top government official. * A stunning model who got a career boost after sleeping with Hillary. * President Clinton's former lover, Gennifer Flowers writes in her book "Passion & Betrayal" of Bill confessing to her that Hillary sleeps with more woman than he does. * The famous commentator Jack Wheeler writes: "My sources indicate that Hillary is bisexual and fools around more than her husband." He also credits Hillary for being the force behind the "White House's homosexual agenda." * According to the insiders report, Hillary had sex with women during her college days at Wellesly College.
SO NOW YOU KNOW THE REST OF THE STORY
President Clinton's former mistress Gennifer Flowers (left) claims Bill told her Hillary was a lesbian. Rumors have swirled about Hillary's relationship with cabinet member Donna Shalala (center) and New York Lawyer Susan Thomases.
A show of hands: Hillary signals her support of gay rights at a rally in New York. 'My sources indicate Hillary is bisexual and fools around much more than her husband'
-Political Commentator Jack Wheeler
Will Hillary be the first female president? Many think so. If so, will she announce to the world that she is a homosexual lesbian after securing the Office of President? The reality of such wickedness is upon America today. Expect a pack of lies from Senator Clinton if she does run for the Presidency. FOX News has already by trying to whitewash Hillary by claiming that she's actually starting to move towards the "right" concerning abortion and other issues. Don't you believe it! Hillary is as left as they come, a Jezebel in disguise. --FOCUS--
When trying to dissertate the imposing lesbian threat to our culture, the most frustrating conundrum I face is persuading heterosexuals not to-do not focus one's attention and displeasure with their sex acts. Surprising as it may seem, this one short-fall is the Trojan-horse for the lesbian takeover. This is exactly their weasel: To keep the heterosexual mind in shock about their sex acts and all the while slithering their way into high government positions, court systems, universities and large private corporations. (stealing billions along the way) For this very reason, I urge the reader to not fall into their "smoke and mirror" trap; but, concentrate on how Hillary's lesbian addiction propels her mental psychoses into rage and hatred against the American people and even herself. A factor of grave concern, making Hillary and Janet Reno the two most dangerous persons on the face of this earth.
No...You don't know the rest of the story, but stay tuned on how her "evil empire" intends to overthrow America... However, foremost and above all , start asking questions, it's your duty to God.
Steve Lashuk
Hillary Gets Gay Endorsements
The Associated Press - Thursday July 27, 2000
NEW YORK (AP) - Hillary Rodham Clinton's Senate campaign won the endorsement of two gay advocacy organizations Thursday, the Empire State Pride Agenda and the Washington-based Human Rights Campaign.
"Mrs. Clinton is the clear leader on every single issue of importance to the lesbian and gay community," said Tim Sweeney of the Empire State Pride Agenda during a news conference on the steps of City Hall.
Clinton was cited for her support of civil unions providing legal recognition for gay couples; for favoring homosexuals being allowed to serve openly in the military; for supporting laws against hate-crimes; and for backing abortion rights.
Another organization, Housing Works, which provides housing for homeless people with AIDS, defended Lazio, pointing out his support for funding for housing and jobs for AIDS patients. "Lazio has real achievements in the area of HIV/AIDS," the group said.
END
"Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves: Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen. For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet. And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient; Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers, Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful: Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them."
-Romans 1:24-32
God help us!
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#416. To: christine (#409)
you know what real birth defects are very rare. Birth defects are frequently caused by something in the environment. Like in Iraq the little boy was born with a penis growing out of his forehead - that is a birth defect, it happened because of DU dust. Today we have female hormones in our environment like crazy - because it is in our meat and our milk that we eat. We don't know the effects of this on people, but it could very well be causing a tremendous physiological situation where dysfunction is occurring in the men, and with this dysfunction some will turn to homosexuality, and they will learn that behavior if they have nothing else to learn due to the dysfunctionalism. And as I told you earlier - scientists have found fish and frogs and salamanders born today with both male & female sex characteristics all in one animal. And the one article I read on it pegged the cause as being the pharmaceuticals in the water supply now. A doctor took water and put prozac in the water at the same rate as prozac is already in the Mississippi river, and the fish that lived in the water had babies that had both male & female organs - duplicating what happened in the wild.
what do we do with heterosexual couples who engage in sodomy or heterosexuals who commit adultery or any number of anti-biblical sexual acts?
The answer is that of "licensing." The state should have no business there. If you should feel a strong attraction to your BantyRooster, who should care? Much less the state.
I have no answer to your reasonable question. but I did not propose putting them in concentration camps. Neither did anyone else.
I don't propose doing anything with them. I am of the view that human beings are broken and that 'we' are not going to fix ourselves. But we should try to speak the truth and we should be allowed do so. It is vain and proud to expect victory by our own efforts in these matters.
And that is the basic "problem". Everyone has a pet peeve - be it Homosexuality, Evolutionists, Christians, Muslims, etc. Everyone whines, moans, stomps their feet - but no one has an answer or a solution. Everyone except Zipporah, that is.
you mean EQUAL RIGHTS instead of SPECIAL RIGHTS?
i think you're correct about the causes. still, the point is, there are people who are born with these abnormalities. it wasn't and isn't their choice. again, i acknowledge with some it is.
i agree.
I don't advocate bashing individuals over being 'gay'. I'm sure they can be fine co-workers or other associates.
God given rights - not state licensed priviledges. Yes.
Well that applies to me. Pray for me, maybe I'll stop. Not sure if everyone has a sin they won't give up.
Paul addressed this.. did he not?
We can't count on any source touched by man to be divine. And, the argument, my divine book is better than your divine book, is not persuasive. Ultimately, we each must decide what God's will is. "To thine own self be true," has a nice ring to it. "Judge not, lest ye be judged," seems to imply that we each draw the line based on what we independently think God's will is. 4. THE TALK WITH NATHANIEL And then went Jesus over to Abila, where Nathaniel and his associates labored. Nathaniel was much bothered by some of Jesus' pronouncements which seemed to detract from the authority of the recognized Hebrew scriptures. Accordingly, on this night, after the usual period of questions and answers, Nathaniel took Jesus away from the others and asked: "Master, could you trust me to know the truth about the Scriptures? I observe that you teach us only a portion of the sacred writings--the best as I view it--and I infer that you reject the teachings of the rabbis to the effect that the words of the law are the very words of God, having been with God in heaven even before the times of Abraham and Moses. What is the truth about the Scriptures?" When Jesus heard the question of his bewildered apostle, he answered: "Nathaniel, you have rightly judged; I do not regard the Scriptures as do the rabbis. I will talk with you about this matter on condition that you do not relate these things to your brethren, who are not all prepared to receive this teaching. The words of the law of Moses and the teachings of the Scriptures were not in existence before Abraham. Only in recent times have the Scriptures been gathered together as we now have them. While they contain the best of the higher thoughts and longings of the Jewish people, they also contain much that is far from being representative of the character and teachings of the Father in heaven; wherefore must I choose from among the better teachings those truths which are to be gleaned for the gospel of the kingdom. "These writings are the work of men, some of them holy men, others not so holy. The teachings of these books represent the views and extent of enlightenment of the times in which they had their origin. As a revelation of truth, the last are more dependable than the first. The Scriptures are faulty and altogether human in origin, but mistake not, they do constitute the best collection of religious wisdom and spiritual truth to be found in all the world at this time. "Many of these books were not written by the persons whose names they bear, but that in no way detracts from the value of the truths which they contain. If the story of Jonah should not be a fact, even if Jonah had never lived, still would the profound truth of this narrative, the love of God for Nineveh and the so-called heathen, be none the less precious in the eyes of all those who love their Page 1768 fellow men. The Scriptures are sacred because they present the thoughts and acts of men who were searching for God, and who in these writings left on record their highest concepts of righteousness, truth, and holiness. The Scriptures contain much that is true, very much, but in the light of your present teaching, you know that these writings also contain much that is misrepresentative of the Father in heaven, the loving God I have come to reveal to all the worlds. "Nathaniel, never permit yourself for one moment to believe the Scripture records which tell you that the God of love directed your forefathers to go forth in battle to slay all their enemies--men, women, and children. Such records are the words of men, not very holy men, and they are not the word of God. The Scriptures always have, and always will, reflect the intellectual, moral, and spiritual status of those who create them. Have you not noted that the concepts of Yahweh grow in beauty and glory as the prophets make their records from Samuel to Isaiah? And you should remember that the Scriptures are intended for religious instruction and spiritual guidance. They are not the works of either historians or philosophers. "The thing most deplorable is not merely this erroneous idea of the absolute perfection of the Scripture record and the infallibility of its teachings, but rather the confusing misinterpretation of these sacred writings by the tradition-enslaved scribes and Pharisees at Jerusalem. And now will they employ both the doctrine of the inspiration of the Scriptures and their misinterpretations thereof in their determined effort to withstand these newer teachings of the gospel of the kingdom. Nathaniel, never forget, the Father does not limit the revelation of truth to any one generation or to any one people. Many earnest seekers after the truth have been, and will continue to be, confused and disheartened by these doctrines of the perfection of the Scriptures. "The authority of truth is the very spirit that indwells its living manifestations, and not the dead words of the less illuminated and supposedly inspired men of another generation. And even if these holy men of old lived inspired and spirit-filled lives, that does not mean that their words were similarly spiritually inspired. Today we make no record of the teachings of this gospel of the kingdom lest, when I have gone, you speedily become divided up into sundry groups of truth contenders as a result of the diversity of your interpretation of my teachings. For this generation it is best that we live these truths while we shun the making of records. "Mark you well my words, Nathaniel, nothing which human nature has touched can be regarded as infallible. Through the mind of man divine truth may indeed shine forth, but always of relative purity and partial divinity. The creature may crave infallibility, but only the Creators possess it. "But the greatest error of the teaching about the Scriptures is the doctrine of their being sealed books of mystery and wisdom which only the wise minds of the nation dare to interpret. The revelations of divine truth are not sealed except by human ignorance, bigotry, and narrow-minded intolerance. The light of the Scriptures is only dimmed by prejudice and darkened by superstition. A false fear of sacredness has prevented religion from being safeguarded by common sense. The fear of the authority of the sacred writings of the past effectively prevents the honest souls of today from accepting the new light of the gospel, the light which these very God-knowing men of another generation so intensely longed to see. Page 1769 "But the saddest feature of all is the fact that some of the teachers of the sanctity of this traditionalism know this very truth. They more or less fully understand these limitations of Scripture, but they are moral cowards, intellectually dishonest. They know the truth regarding the sacred writings, but they prefer to withhold such disturbing facts from the people. And thus do they pervert and distort the Scriptures, making them the guide to slavish details of the daily life and an authority in things nonspiritual instead of appealing to the sacred writings as the repository of the moral wisdom, religious inspiration, and the spiritual teaching of the God-knowing men of other generations." Nathaniel was enlightened, and shocked, by the Master's pronouncement. He long pondered this talk in the depths of his soul, but he told no man concerning this conference until after Jesus' ascension; and even then he feared to impart the full story of the Master's instruction. from the Urantia book
Adolf Hitler... "What luck for rulers that men do not think." John F. Kennedy... "Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." I'm sorry, but I want women to come as God made them, not enhanced with rubbery parts. I'm a purist.
how would you explain children born with ambiguous or both male and female genitalia?
#417. To: CAPPSMADNESS (#413)
What do we do?
#418. To: CAPPSMADNESS (#413)
#419. To: CAPPSMADNESS (#413)
Put them in concentration camps?
#420. To: christine (#417)
what do we do with
#421. To: Red Jones (#419)
I have no answer to your reasonable question
#422. To: lodwick (#418)
#423. To: Red Jones (#416)
Today we have female hormones in our environment like crazy - because it is in our meat and our milk that we eat. We don't know the effects of this on people, but it could very well be causing a tremendous physiological situation where dysfunction is occurring in the men, and with this dysfunction some will turn to homosexuality, and they will learn that behavior if they have nothing else to learn due to the dysfunctionalism.
#424. To: Red Jones (#420)
But we should try to speak the truth and we should be allowed do so.
#425. To: christine (#423)
it wasn't and isn't their choice.
#426. To: CAPPSMADNESS (#422)
you mean EQUAL RIGHTS instead of SPECIAL RIGHTS?
#427. To: CAPPSMADNESS (#408)
Every one has sin that they do not want to give up
#428. To: A K A Stone (#427)
Well that applies to me. Pray for me, maybe I'll stop. Not sure if everyone has a sin they won't give up.
#429. To: Red Jones (#405)
"The real controversy (I think) is whether we should see things god's way or whether we should write the rules ourselves."
#430. To: 82Marine89 (#404)
 | So many morons, so few bullets. |
#431. To: BTP Holdings (#135)
I think we are mainly in agreement. I choose Kant, who basically says the same thing as the Bible. Fundamentalism is our main problem, not religion. I respect your beliefs.
#432. To: christine (#423)
The problem with that point of view. Is that the logical conclusion is that God is unjust because he says it is a sin. So I don't think they are born that way. If they were God wouldn't call it a sin, that makes God a bad God for judging people for the way they were born.
i think you're correct about the causes. still, the point is, there are people who are born with these abnormalities. it wasn't and isn't their choice. again, i acknowledge with some it is.
#433. To: christine (#397)
That is a good observation. God did say in his word that you would be changed.
Any time there's a biblical or religious association to a topic, it seems to me that a person's opinion on it all comes down to whether or not they accept the bible as the infallible word of God.
#434. To: A K A Stone (#433)
Alien, Feline rug Munchers are a sin
Dubya to the serfs: "It's Raining!"
#435. To: Jhoffa_ (#434)
lol
#436. To: Red Jones (#393)
Not at all, if they realize that it is for them and it is not their right to impose their beliefs on everyone else. It is illegitimate for people to speak about it *when* they don't know their own religion well enough to be able to speak honestly and truthfully about it. Most people who take things very seriously don't know the history of their own religion, where they got it from, or anything else. Thus, they are so ill-informed that they actually have no right to claim authority, yet they do. This I know from experience. Most apologetic arguments that people are using are so flimsy that even Barnum would have shied away from them. They may convince people with weak analytical skills, but mostly, they are smoke, mirrors, and BS. Therein lies the problem. Most people who take things far too seriously are so ill-informed that they simply wind up looking like idiots. Is that a good thing? Does that do any good or does it make them, their sect, and their beliefs look utterly silly? Does going out and complaining about a particular group of people and then being shocked when that group launches a counterattack make them look intelligent or stupid? Most so-called Christians don't have the knowledge they need to speak intelligently about their beliefs. What I've been doing is challenging the knowledge holes. Nothing wrong with that; it exposes that they don't know enough to be able to claim authority.
or maybe you think it is OK for people to take the bible seriously, but illegitimate if they speak about it?
#437. To: mirage (#436)
nobody's imposing anything. you have free will. you can believe what you want. merely stating your beliefs is not imposing your beliefs on others. it is ridiculous to think so.
if they realize that it is for them and it is not their right to impose their beliefs on everyone else.
#438. To: ALL (#0)
What a bunch of Horsedhit... Why does the LUNATIC FRINGE of cHRISTIANITY act like sex between consenting homosexuals is the ONLY SIN IN EXISTENCE ? I'm sure there must be a hundred other sins more vile that they could spend their useless existence railing against...What do the THINKING people on this board think?
God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them."
The former head of the National Security Agency, Retired Lt. General William Odom, said, "The invasion of Iraq, I believe, will turn out to be the greatest strategic disaster in U.S. history."
#439. To: Steppenwolf (#438)
The greatest sin on this planet, is for stupidity to be rewarded, and for that stupidity to go unpunished. There are more sins on this planet than you can imagine. Some of which are harmful to other people, who aren't part of the sin in the first place. Homosexuality is a sin that affects not only the two consenting adults, but their families, and potentially other people should that relationship go south, and one of the people involved becomes infected with an incurable disease. Hence the spread of AIDS. I do not debate that Homosexuality is the only sin, but that it is not a harmless sin. As a thinking person, sin is sin, and one should try to abstain from sin in order to be spiritually pure, and redeemable in the eyes of God. I'm going to go out on a limb here and guess that you're either gay, or have a lot of gay friends. Take no offense to what the lunatic fringe says, after all, they're lunatics. If you choose to be what you are, that's your business, nobody is going to fault you for it. I find the things going on in my government, as vile as vile gets, and that's not limited to the goofy sex stuff either.
| So many morons, so few bullets. |
#440. To: Steppenwolf (#438)
I already told you what I think, and now I'm going to repeat myself for at least the 3'rd time. The bible does condemn homosexual acts. The bible condemns many many other sexual patterns, read the section on 'the law' in one of the early OT books - Leviticus maybe. It goes on for pages condemning many sexual activities. Sex with animals, sex with children, sex with your sister, your mother, etc. etc. etc. it's really very impressive what it condemns. It basically only holds up sex between man & woman in marriage type relationship as being legitimate. All else is illegitimate. that's what it says. It spends only a small amount of time condemning homosexual activity because it has so much to condemn, and homosexuality is only one of many that it condemns. - when it comes to sexual sin. but the bible spends more time condemning greedy rich people and how they cheat the poor than it does condemning sexual sin of all types together even. Still, I like the article and I agree with it. I think it improper that some people who vote republican say they do so in order to oppose gay marriage on christian grounds, and then the republicans set their policies favorable to the rich, they want higher taxes on the poor than on the rich. this is improper for christians to support, this favoring of rich people that the republicans do.
What do the THINKING people on this board think?
#441. To: Steppenwolf (#438)
following up on what I said in #440 - if you read all of 'the law' handed down in the early books of OT, then this will of course include the 10 commandments, but it will include much else as well. It stretches over several books. in that section as I said homosexuality is condemned. But so is much else. Many christians vote on the homosexual angle for republicans. But the law in the bible really has a lot to say about banking systems and money creation systems, and usury systems. It boggles my mind how christians can vote republican and cite 'the law' in the bible that condemns homosexuality, but then they ignore completely that the establishment in the US including the republicans have made a money creation system that has absolutely nothing in common with the sensibities laid down in the bible. The system of money creation that the republicans favor is extremely non-christian. This is completely ignored by the 'christians' who vote republican.
#442. To: Red Jones (#437)
I disagree completely but I will qualify why I say this. You are forthright in your beliefs and you make this statement. Others - most others - do not. They do not acknowledge that their way of doing things isn't for everyone and rather insist that people adopt their viewpoint. They can be quite persistant and even violent in attempting to do that. This is the "Agree with me or burn in hell" approach that makes such people look like complete and utter morons and paints a picture of Fundamentalist Christians that they are absolute lunatics. Once a person comes out and says "Agree with me or burn in hell" or, as I've seen here locally, Fundies hanging out in parish parking lots shouting and throwing things at the Catholics, then screaming "I'm so persecuted!" when they are hauled off - is this an attempt at imposition or is it acknowledging reality that people have free will? Is following a person around screaming obscenities at them because they do NOT want to deal with their little cult "stating your beliefs" or is it an attempt to impose them on others? Is out-and-out lying to people acceptable or does it demand a response? Is an attempt to rewrite history in order to promote a particular viewpoint honest or should it be responded to? Is painting "BURN IN HELL" on the garage of a homosexual person "stating your beliefs" or is it harassment and (depending on the group) thinly veiled terrorism? Is putting a homosexual person in the hospital "stating your beliefs" or is it a criminal act? Is shooting a medical professional "stating your beliefs" or is it murder? You'll probably note that I tend to stick to history because it is pretty much undebatable. Things happen at certain times, there are records, etc. There are people on this very system posting who think that the Russian Orthodox Church popped up before the Church in Jersusalem. There are others who think that the Catholics eat babies. There are some so-called Protestants who can't even articulate what it is they are protesting. This isn't hard stuff to deal with. What do you think a proper response is? Mine is to attempt to educate people. What should I do? Fight fire with fire or try to deal with it in a more rational manner?
nobody's imposing anything. you have free will. you can believe what you want. merely stating your beliefs is not imposing your beliefs on others. it is ridiculous to think so.
#443. To: mirage (#442)
in an effort to answer these questions - all I can tell you is that if you're frustrated with some of the christians, then I don't blame you - I'm frustrated wtih them also. the other thing I can tell you is that I wish I had extreme knowledge of the bible and unlimited patience and ability to focus my mind so that I could better teach and show people. I think the majority of organized christian churches are discredited. I think no demographic group supports this war and supports bush more than the preachers who get paid to preach by organized churches. the bible says very bad things about the preachers in the end-times who run churches for money. This discredits that whole group in my mind and in many minds. I still hold the line on the bible and think that it is word of god. this is god's weapon, his words. we should get to know it. I am remiss in not knowing it as well as I should. but I feel sorry for people who (like Christine described) may have biological reasons that drive them towards sexual irregularities like homosexuality. I don't think the world's a better place for campaigning against them and blaming them or scapegoating them.
What do you think a proper response is? Mine is to attempt to educate people. What should I do? Fight fire with fire or try to deal with it in a more rational manner?
#444. To: Red Jones (#443)
Don't be surprised, but I have some cousins who fall into that camp. I've spoken to their analysts and done a LOT of research into it. Also lived in the Bay Area for a decade and one can't help but notice - things - there and that makes one curious so I went and researched it. Christine is right. Current research is leading toward hormone problems and other things beyond the individual's control. Since I've been afflicted with having to deal with Fundies for the last 20 years or so, I've grown an encyclopediac knowledge of the Bible and can actually deal with them on that level. I know the history, I know the various theologies, and other stuff. I spent a lot of time helping friends and relatives deal with things and try to use "the right method for the right situation with the right person" - but its all based on the same knowledge base. Its just getting people to be able to deal with things and be able to fend off morons quickly. Calvinism is a good weapon to use when confronting said people. If we're all God's Children, and certain things (according to the Bible at least) were fore-ordained, and, as was said in Genesis, after the creation, God said "It is good" - and we know that homosexuals have been around forever - then *my* way of explaining it is this: Let them be unless they get in your face. Practice the Golden Rule, because it certainly works faithfully in reverse as well. Get to understand them as you wish them to understand you. There is not a *single* homosexual person I know who *likes* being gay. All of them have terrible problems, but, have eventually had to accept that this is how they were made. If one looks at Paul, one has to note that Paul was a Pharisee, which means he wanted a strict adherence to certain things. Paul was pretty much unable to see past his own food dish in a number of areas and one has to take that into account when reading his letters. God did not write the Bible; men wrote the Bible. When Paul says "I, Paul, say..." then you have a clear indication that Paul is speaking for himself. Now, if we're all God's Children, and God "knew them in the womb" then God made them gay! I can cite dozens of "the plan from the beginning" verses to back that up as well. There are also a lot of forgeries and edits in the NT as well as a lot of clear contradictions, nonquotes, misquotes, and other issues. My way of dealing with it is to say this: The Bible is 100% true in that it teaches religious truth. All other items (including interpretation) are debatable and it is not to be taken literally or as being 100% scientific or historically accurate. I stand on that. You will note that I say "so-called Christian" a lot. That means that there are a lot of people who think they are Christians but aren't. They don't get it. There are very few people who actually understand the history of Christianity, the times it grew up in, how it evolved, etc. I think the majority of Christian Churches and Preachers are only in business to stay in business and perpetuate themselves. I also think that while the Catholic Church rightfully is criticized for many things, they're the best of the lot simply because they *learn* from their goofs and, as my family has done, you can challenge them and back them off when they are in the wrong. No "Bible Church" would ever let you do that. As for end-times, that gets into a discussion of history and what people were thinking at the time. Quick summary: The "end-times" have been here since 29AD or so. I do not believe they are coming. I can give you a list of items if you want to look into it yourself; I'll send that in a private message if you like. That being said, I am basically an agnostic who thinks that Christianity has a lot to offer, but people are completely misusing and misreading it. I had to leave and look at things from the outside to really understand it.
but I feel sorry for people who (like Christine described) may have biological reasons that drive them towards sexual irregularities like homosexuality. I don't think the world's a better place for campaigning against them and blaming them or scapegoating them.
#445. To: mirage (#444)
thanks for nice offer, if you want to send me private message or message on board, then I'll look at it for consideration only, not for argument. I see that you have thought very deeply about these things. and I'm not going to argue with you that a lot of the churches are run by idiots.
The "end-times" have been here since 29AD or so. I do not believe they are coming. I can give you a list of items if you want to look into it yourself;
#446. To: Red Jones (#445)
That is exactly as it is intended. I would also be interested in your opinion on it. Contrary to popular belief, I do look at other viewpoints -but- they'd better fit the actual facts and be honest :-) I read an apologetic work not too long ago where an Evangelical tried to make the claim that his group pre-dated the Catholic Church. These are the kinds of "better fit the actual facts" that I mean. A guy who opens his doors in the 1980s does not predate the first century and without citation, cannot even claim lineage. This guy was simply lying to his audience. I've read a lot of that kind of garbage. Its a lot of smoke, mirrors, and BS that is being spun as "absolute truth" and just makes these folks look stupid. A little honesty about "what, where, and why" would go a long way toward creating credibility. I'll ship some stuff off to you late tonite; it'll be long because it will be a compilation of a lot of things and I'll have to crack open five or six books to get it together. It will be fully sourced and limited to a digression on "end times".
thanks for nice offer, if you want to send me private message or message on board, then I'll look at it for consideration only, not for argument.
#447. To: mirage (#444)
Actually sooner.. what Jesus was referencing was the end of the old covenant not the end of the world.
As for end-times, that gets into a discussion of history and what people were thinking at the time. Quick summary: The "end-times" have been here since 29AD or so. I do not believe they are coming. I can give you a list of items if you want to look into it yourself; I'll send that in a private message if you like.
#448. To: Zipporah (#447)
That is very possible. Or it can be taken as "apocalype = end of evil" as folks in the first century took it. There are a lot of interpretations and reinterpretations and such out there. Personally, I *much prefer* to dig into history and align with what people were thinking at the time as much as is possible. One has to take Revelation into account as well as some oddball Gospel predictions that either didn't come to pass as expected or are just goofy and try to make sense of it. The second coming didn't happen "in glory" during the lifetime of the apostles as foretold. Paul was expecting it and had to re-assure followers that it would - eventually - happen. It didn't happen as was expected, but that hasn't kept people from trying to plot it out or cry "rapture!" which isn't likely to happen either, even if you take things very seriously. Hmmm, maybe I should post my research openly and open it for debate. What do you think?
Actually sooner.. what Jesus was referencing was the end of the old covenant not the end of the world.
#449. To: mirage (#448)
I absolutely agree.. have you ever heard of the book The Last Disciple? It's fiction but it's based on the view of 1st century Christians.. As far as open debate.. I see no reason not to.. but be prepared some people go bonkers re this topic.
Personally, I *much prefer* to dig into history and align with what people were thinking at the time as much as is possible.
#450. To: mirage (#448)
Thats not true. Chapter and verse please.
One has to take Revelation into account as well as some oddball Gospel predictions that either didn't come to pass as expected or are just goofy and try to make sense of it. The second coming didn't happen "in glory" during the lifetime of the apostles as foretold.
#451. To: Zipporah (#449)
have you ever heard of the book The Last Disciple? It's fiction but it's based on the view of 1st century Christians.. No, I have not. The last two books I read on the topic were The Mass of the Early Christians and Bart Ehrman's Jesus: Apocalyptic Prophet of the New Millenium As far as open debate.. I see no reason not to.. but be prepared some people go bonkers re this topic. That's why I intend to put it in a historical and simple textual context. In order to actually debate and not look like idiots, they'll have to know history, which few people actually do. I've educated several people here where I live. None of them and I mean *none* of them got a historical context in their churches or even bothered to look at how things have played out over time. All of them got an eye-opener. All of them were calmed down immensely from initial rabidity once they realized that they were off their rockers in terms of having been taught bad history from the pulpit and never bothered to look any further than that. A quick test I use when dealing with rabid Bible thumpers who either appear at my door or harass me on the streets is this: a) You say you are a Protestant. What are you protesting? If people who claim to be Christians want to get into an argument or convince me that "they have the ultimate truth" (as they usually state it) and can't answer at least four of these five questions, then they don't know the history of their own religion and show very quickly that they have not read their Bibles very carefully. All of the questions in my "quick quiz" go to simple reading and history. None of them are terribly difficult for someone who is knowledgeable of their own religion and/or basic Western Civilization and history. Most calm people can whiz through the quiz. It is not difficult for Christians who have taken some time to learn about their own stuff. The quick quiz I wrote out above is very difficult for the self-righteous and ignorant to get through. This quick quiz handily separates the ignorant from the informed. The ignorant and self-righteous usually explode in anger, which quickly shows what kind of person they really are :-)
b) What is a Pharisee and why were they problematic?
* Bonus: Why do many groups act like the Pharisees?
c) How many "messiahs" besides Jesus claimed extraordinary powers in the first century? Name one. If you cannot name one, then name the man that people in Judea in the 2nd Century proclaimed as the Messiah and describe what he did.
d) What does your group mean by "inerrancy"?
* Bonus: How many OT quotes from the NT actually exist as stated in the NT?
e) Who was Martin Luther, what was his religious background, what were his complaints, what did he hope to accomplish, and how did he edit the Christian Bible?
* Bonus: Which books currently included in the Protestant Bible did Luther want to throw out and why?
#452. To: A K A Stone (#450)
Are you sure you want me to give you a list of some select contradictions and select false prophecies?
Thats not true. Chapter and verse please.
#453. To: mirage (#451)
I'll see if I can answer your list: a) I dont claim to be a protestant.. b) The Pharisees was a sect who basically lived more by the Talmud than by the torah c) Hmm I know that there were several who claimed messiahhood but offhand I can't name one. d) I'm not a member of a group (I dont know how many OT quotes there are in the NT but they are numerous. e) Martin Luther was a monk .. Roman Catholic... for one out of many, Luther complained of creeds and indulgences. There are several books that are in the catholic scripture that aren't in the NT used by christians.. I dont know offhand w/o looking them up.
#454. To: Zipporah (#453)
You've done better than most would do :-) For "b" - a better answer would be that since the Law said things like "Thou shalt not work on the Sabbath" - someone needed to define "work" and what "work" was. The Pharisees performed that task. For 'e' - Luther wanted to ditch James and Revelation as well. He called James an "epistle of straw" because it violated his sense that salvation should be by faith alone. James says that "faith without works is dead." Luther also wanted to ditch Revelation because he felt it had neither Christ nor the Holy Spirit in it. Your answer on the messiahs is fine; there was one guy (I have the name in a notebook not available right now) in about 80AD who went off claiming he was going to part the Red Sea. When he arrived, he met some Romans who took him off to be crucified. Around 120/140AD (notes elsewhere; this is a rough call from memory) a General appeared and was going to drive the Romans off! After a few victories, this man was declared by many to be the Messiah - he eventually lost and was killed in battle. As for quotes/nonquotes/misquotes, that's a heck of a list. I would be happy to post some selected ones when I respond to AKA Stone later on tonite. It fits in with the errancy theme.
I'll see if I can answer your list:
#455. To: mirage (#454)
This
is basically what the talmud is .. books that explain the torah among other
things.. and the complaint that Jesus had against them was that they lived by
the letter of the law.. and worshipped the words of men.. the talmud rather than
the word of God.. the essence of scripture ..
For "b" - a better answer would be that since the Law said things
like "Thou shalt not work on the Sabbath" - someone needed to define "work" and
what "work" was. The Pharisees performed that task.
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