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9/11
See other 9/11 Articles

Title: 9 11 Fake Video Stars: The J Star Clones – Why Covert Operation’s Cointel Must Have ‘Fake’ Video and ‘No Planes’
Source: Ed Ward, MD's Blog: US Tyranny & Treason
URL Source: http://edwardmd.wordpress.com/
Published: May 5, 2013
Author: Ed Ward M.D.
Post Date: 2013-05-05 20:49:50 by Original_Intent
Keywords: planes, no-planes, 911, towers
Views: 28306
Comments: 451

9 11 Fake Video Stars: The J Star Clones – Why Covert Operation’s Cointel Must Have ‘Fake’ Video and ‘No Planes’

9 11 Fake Video Stars: The J Star Clones - Why Covert Operation's Cointel Must Have 'Fake' Video

US Government Problem: Video of the planes needed to actually fly into the WTCs are readily available to the public.

US Government Solution: Promote the Videos as ‘fake’ based on ‘pixel’ BS – This solves the ‘evidence’ problem while never noting that the planes are NOT commercial airliners – which are not structurally capable of performing the tasks and look nothing like the photographic proof that commercial airliners are ‘not in the picture’ and US Government Military Planes are ‘in the picture’. Actually, an excellent scam premise when pumped out by the covert op truth troops.

Wingtips say B 767-400ERE-10A is THE CLONE USED to fly into the WTCs – Unless someone has a version that matches the video better.

The videos show that a Boeing 767-400ER E-10A was the supposed Super-Powered’ Commercial Airliner’. (One of these all very similar clones is clearly seen – one version of these clones has the ‘swept’ back wingtips used to discredit the video as fakery by some… Boeing 767-400ER E-10A) All early videos show the pod and the swept back wing – Recently, I’ve seen newer posts of truth videos in which the planes have neither.

Something that is fake can prove nothing, except that it is fake. It can not prove whether, how, or even if an actual event happened or not. Of course for this premise of ‘fake’ video proving anything one must also believe that during planning…

Someone says, since the plan is to use hijacked airliners, “Hey, let’s not use real planes. Let’s truck the plane parts in, crews to lay them out, people to say they saw planes, etc, et al, and just make some fake videos of planes going into the towers. Now, when we make these fake videos, instead of photoshopping in a commercial airliner with windows, we’ll photoshop in the plane needed to actually do it. Everybody high fives and says, ‘yeah, it’s just our lives on the line for treason.’ ”

Next day, the moron is no longer a threat… most likely scenario, taken out by their own family out of fear they’d all be taken out. It’s ludicrous on multiple levels.. Not just one.

The Ivy Flats Video, the testing of the first micro nuke, the Davy Crockett, is a perfect example of a camera that simply is too slow. Sure, cameras are a lot faster now, so have the travel speeds. They capture erratic images AT BEST when velocity exceeds capture speed images/PIXELS distort. Fact as clearly seen on the Ivy Flats video as soldiers move off train watch what happens to their legs. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nv_q8q6Z9_I

Fake video is only important if one NEEDS to disprove video evidence that a SUPER POWERED IRREGULAR SHAPED, NON WINDOWED ‘COMMERCIAL AIRLINER’ FLEW INTO THE WTCS – INDIRECTLY, without drawing attention to the fact a military aircraft flew into the WTCs. It’s still being done today by so called ‘truthers’. Did the ‘truther orgs’ say? The US government has been caught using its own planes to destroy the WTCs? No everything was silent and then came the need for the ‘fake video’ call.

No Windows in Flight 175 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jRC4lCQuBmc&feature=related

Evaluation of Video Footage – for WTC comparisons…

http://911review.org/Wiki/Wtc2PlanePod.shtml

Photo: Boeing N256BA – E-10 MC2A http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3040/2351680318_dcaff7147e_z.jpg?zz=1

Related photos: http://www.spyflight.co.uk/767%20mc2a.htm

There are additional photos in original article ’9 11 Fake Video Stars: The JSTAR Clones. Why Covert Ops Must Have Fake Video 9-11 Fake Video Stars – The JSTAR Clones 10-1-10 Note, the little blue decal up front – one of the WTC witnesses claims to have seen one on the ‘plane that flew into..) BTW, eye witness testimony – the LEAST valuable information WITHOUT additional evidence. http://www.rense.com/general92/911fk.htm

F-4 Phantom at 500 mph into a solid concrete wall http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AB4IEa7jTJw

(Bullets Into Steel – Under pressure and friction metals tend to liquefy) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QfFoMyMoiX4

The wall was 12 ft thick, THE PLANE WAS NOT FILLED WITH WATER, but the tanks were to simulate fuel.

“But there was a test similar to what is described above. In 1988, an
unmanned F-4 Phantom, ballasted with water and mounted on rails, was
“flown” into a concrete wall at 480 MPH. As reported, the plane crumpled,
and penetrated only about 2 inches of concrete. A very impressive test -
except it wasn’t meant to be a test of nuclear reactor safety. The wall
the F-4 crashed into was not a simulation of a nuclear plant’s wall. It
was a 12-foot-thick wall mounted on an air cushion. The test was designed to study impact forces by measuring how far the impact would push the wall. Breaking through the concrete was the last thing any of the involved scientists wanted to achieve. Furthermore, the F-4 was ballasted with water to give it the same weight as a plane fully loaded with fuel, and its final weight was 42,000 pounds. Needless to say, crashing a 412,000 pound 767 loaded with fuel into a fixed wall would have slightly different results.

Because according to a 1982 study by the Argonne National Laboratory in Illinois – a study which was conducted by request of the DOE and the NRC – the explosion from a 707 crashing into a containment dome at 466 MPH would probably overwhelm the reactor’s shielding. Note – that’s a 707, which weighs 336,000 pounds. In 1982 those were big jets. But we’ve “advanced” considerably since then. The 767s that were flown into the World Trade Center weighed 80,000 pounds more than that and carried a lot more fuel.

Other studies, again conducted for the NRC at the Lawrence Livermore
National Laboratory, found that a 125,000 pound jet had a 32 % chance of piercing a containment building’s six-foot base and an 84 % chance of
breaking through the dome.” http://everything2.com/user/DejaMorgana/writeups/Nuclear+Power

“A key report, Sugano et al 1992, covers a rocket sled crash experiment using an F-4D Phantom jet fighter impacting into a 10 foot thick reinforced concrete block.

Sandia notes:
The purpose of the test was to determine the impact force, versus time, due to the impact, of a complete F-4 Phantom — including both engines — onto a massive, essentially rigid reinforced concrete target (3.66 meters thick). Previous tests used F-4 engines at similar speeds. The test was not intended to demonstrate the performance (survivability) of any particular type of concrete structure to aircraft impact. The impact occurred at the nominal velocity of 215 meters per second (about 480 mph). The mass of the jet fuel was simulated by water; the effects of fire following such a collision was not a part of the test. The test established that the major impact force was from the engines. The test was performed by Sandia National Laboratories under terms of a contract with the Muto Institute of Structural Mechanics, Inc., of Tokyo.

With very minimal damage to the concrete target block, the plane and its engines were easily converted into small chunks of metal confetti and shrapnel at the physical interface of the two impact objects. Upon initial impact, the follow-on rear portions of the plane yet to make contact retained their shape integrity until their respective impact. (This seriously contradicts claims by Jean-Pierre Desmoulins that the wings of a 757 would have folded forward, as well as claims in the popular press that the wings folded back before entering the “too-small” hole.) The resulting shear caused debris being spread out to the left, right, and rear of the impact locus, having no ability to proceed in their original vector path, having grossly failed the test of strength with the concrete block. However, the wings are wider than the concrete block, so the wingtips are sheared off whole, and they tumble forward after being cleanly separated from the aircraft.

F4 aircraft impacting a solid concrete barrier. Note that the wings and tail do not fold as the nose impacts the concrete. (source: don’t bother moved -http://www.sandia.gov/media/NRgallery00-03.htm)

Sugano (in itself) doesn’t show that a 757 hitting the Pentagon would be turned into confetti and small chunks, but it does show that an F4 was completely destroyed in arguably similar circumstances. Furthermore, it wasn’t anywhere close to an even contest between the wall and the F4. The F4 started with a speed of 215 m/sec — and the tail was still traveling at 185 m/sec when it smashed into the wall. The F4 is a very strongly build aircraft, although at 18 meters long and 19 kg, it’s about a third the length and a fifth the weight of the 757. In terms of comparing what would happen to a 757 versus what happened to the F4, it would be difficult to do an accurate calculation without detailed design information on both aircraft. In a preliminary analysis, the extra length of the 757 means that it has three times the distance to decelerate — but the 757 is also much heavier, so it’s more difficult for the crushing process to supply enough force to decelerate even as rapidly as the F4 did.” http://www.911-strike.com/missing-confetti.htm The article from the ‘pentagon disinformation unit’ counters the information from the ‘WTC no planes disinformation unit’.

Ed Ward, MD – http://edwardmd.wordpress.com/ ;
https://www.facebook.com/EdWardMD3 ; http://groups.yahoo.com/group/EdWard-MD/messages

More US Drill Death in Waco Explosion – Drill Stops for Reality, Again http://edwardmd.wordpress.com/2013/04/28/more-us-drill-death-in-waco-drill-stops-for-reality-again/

Boston Marathon: The Finish Line For US Treason. Drill Death. Everything’s In Place For Police State. by Ed Ward, MD http://edwardmd.wordpress.com/2013/04/16/boston-marathon-the-finish-line-for-us-treason-drill-death-everything-is-in-place-for-police-state-by-ed-ward-md/

Pictures: US Boston Weapon – Both ‘Explosions’ – The Secret of the Pure Fusion Weapon – Li7 – Lithium 7 http://edwardmd.wordpress.com/2013/04/19/photograph-of-boston-fireball-2nd-explosion/

Dr. Ed Ward MD, AS, BS, MD – Reporting and investigating Constitutional abuses of the US government for almost 2 decades. AS, BS in Medical Technology – Minor in Organic Chemistry and Physics, volunteer during the Viet Nam war 6 years stateside active duty ‘med tech’ ‘US Air Farce’ – a decade experience in Medical Technology. MD degree from LSU, New Orleans – 2 decades in the field of General Practice. (My) Articles are also referenced by valid experts in their field.


Poster Comment:

For you "no planers" there are other rational explanations other than the planted disinfo (to discredit questions on 911) that there were no planes.(1 image)

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#96. To: FormerLurker (#94)

Like I said, you need to take a good long hard look in the mirror dude.

No he doesn't Wudidiz is just fine.

You on the otherhand former lurker, are a tyranny worshipping monster.

One more time in case you did not process it in the first reading.

You former Lurker, are a tyranny worshipping monster.

______________________________________

Suspect all media / resist bad propaganda/Learn NLP everyday everyway ;) (It's a more positive message)

titorite  posted on  2013-05-12   5:04:54 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#97. To: titorite (#95)

huh


"If they can get you asking the wrong questions, they don't have to worry about answers" ~ Thomas Pynchon Gravity's Rainbow

wudidiz  posted on  2013-05-12   5:26:18 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#98. To: FormerLurker, titorite, christine, Original_Intent, GreyLmist, *9-11* (#96)

I don't expect a reasonable, sensible response from you, so I will post this for anyone else reading. FormerLurker, you keep demanding an answer for how everyone can be in on it if no planes were used. Noone except yourself here has made the claim that in order for a psyop to happen the whole populaton of New York must be conspirators. Noone has insisted that it is impossible for them to have gotten away with exploding the wtc with bombs unless "millions" were in on it. Why must everyone be in on it if there were no planes? It's ludicrous. It doesn't take too many people to do a conspiracy. Most are willing dupes or play only a small part in a chain of command. They're all understanding that to reveal secrets would be a security risk, if not suicidal. They don't hire people that ask pesky questions. Now you're smart enough to know all this. So why do you continue to constantly harrass anyone who disagrees with the points in the official story that you so passionately and tenaciously defend? Why do you seem to have such a personal interest in this argument as if you own it and must protect it. Isn't the truth all that should be important? Since when is the truth movement organized? Who will benefit from regulating discussion? Who's in charge here? You? Why do you have no interest in examining this objectively, you make false claims and don't back them up, you evade direct questions, you've not once yet provided me with any credible witnesses like I've repetitively asked. Your spamming terroristic style is annoying, gross and disgusting. If I had any shame I'd be embarrassed to be posting on the same page as you. You're like a childish bully with no desire for civil discourse, no respect for the truth and an obsessive compulsion to win the argument in your own mind at any cost.


"If they can get you asking the wrong questions, they don't have to worry about answers" ~ Thomas Pynchon Gravity's Rainbow

wudidiz  posted on  2013-05-12   6:29:39 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#99. To: titorite (#86)

Wanna explain how they did that with out any trace of wake vortex following them into and through the smoke?

Show where the 2nd plane flew thru any smoke.

------------------------------------------

Can you demonstrate a single instance in history where incursion by niggers blacks has resulted in excellence, prosperity, or improvement owing to their presence, inventiveness, or disposition?

PSUSA2  posted on  2013-05-12   7:25:12 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#100. To: PSUSA2 (#99)

Wake vortex follows the plane Pusa.

The Planes are not the point of focus. The vortex of wind the is made by the wings splice through the air creating uneven currents of air pressure is the focus.

The wake.

Planes slam into buildings creating explosion, fire, smoke, yada yada.

Just like the wake of a boat that scuttles into land it did not just dissappear. The wake should be visible on all cameras on all film footage.

The text book "swirl" that makes all those con/chemtrails spiraled. ... It should be clearly evident in the smoke and explosions of the days event.

If you know about it then you get nagged by the question.

The more you know the less of a hold tyranny has on you.

Ignorance begets tyranny. I had to learn alot all about this. Now that I have learned stuff I share what I have learned that so that others will be free from the ignorance.

Or at least I try.

______________________________________

Suspect all media / resist bad propaganda/Learn NLP everyday everyway ;) (It's a more positive message)

titorite  posted on  2013-05-12   7:36:04 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#101. To: titorite (#100) (Edited)

You didn't answer my question.

In order for there to be any visible "swirl" caused by wingtip vortices, it must fly thru a medium such as smoke.

Show where the 2nd plane flew thru smoke.

------------------------------------------

Can you demonstrate a single instance in history where incursion by niggers blacks has resulted in excellence, prosperity, or improvement owing to their presence, inventiveness, or disposition?

PSUSA2  posted on  2013-05-12   7:42:14 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#102. To: PSUSA2 (#101)

No no no....

First of all the effect is present whether smoke is there or not... Smoke does not make the vortex.

Flying does.

You know the birds that fly in a V formation... you can't see their lift but you know why they fly in a V. (Right?)

You are correct about me explaining the thing with out showing you a picture.

I can not show you a picture because their isn't one. That is my problem.

Their should be lots of examples of the wake Vortex slamming into the fireball explosion and subsequent smoke.

The fireball should swirled like an airplane crash... not bloosomed like a typical ordinance explosion.

______________________________________

Suspect all media / resist bad propaganda/Learn NLP everyday everyway ;) (It's a more positive message)

titorite  posted on  2013-05-12   7:47:33 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#103. To: All (#102) (Edited)

OK let me try the bathtub method.

We have all seen the whirlpool in a bath tub. Now when we pull the plug to the drain that vortex forms right away. We could put red food coloring into the water near the drain and see it before the water levels get all the way down to the bottom of the bathtub.

The whirlpool spiral vortex into the drain is always there even if their is no food coloring dye to show it off.

Same is true of wake vortex for planes.

Even if their is no smoke to show it off, the effect is still present.

One effect forms going down a drain the other effect forms following a plane.

______________________________________

Suspect all media / resist bad propaganda/Learn NLP everyday everyway ;) (It's a more positive message)

titorite  posted on  2013-05-12   7:51:40 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#104. To: titorite (#102)

First of all the effect is present whether smoke is there or not... Smoke does not make the vortex.

Yes I know.

Are you saying that the wingtip vortices continue moving forward after the plane crashes?

It's caused by movement. When movement stops, vortices stop. Do you dispute that? It sounds like you do.

------------------------------------------

Can you demonstrate a single instance in history where incursion by niggers blacks has resulted in excellence, prosperity, or improvement owing to their presence, inventiveness, or disposition?

PSUSA2  posted on  2013-05-12   7:53:18 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#105. To: PSUSA2 (#104)

Ok... follow me here like the wake vortex follows a plane.

As a plane flys it is creating a votex of air current that follows it.

It crashed. No new vortex is created. The vortex behind it does not stop existing though... No it follows the direction of forward and outward as it was created until dissipation.... which can take several minutes.

The wind wake should of blasted into those explosions.

I can not show you a picture of this.

That is the problem.

______________________________________

Suspect all media / resist bad propaganda/Learn NLP everyday everyway ;) (It's a more positive message)

titorite  posted on  2013-05-12   7:58:59 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#106. To: FormerLurker (#76)

Fukishima IS an ONGOING world disaster. There IS radiation from it poisoning the entire world.

The Gulf oil spill IS still wreaking damage across the Gulf of Mexico and areas which the Gulf stream passes through. Corexit IS worse than oil, and I'd bet the entire ecosystem in that area is saturated with it.

So what's to argue? Things ARE messed up, and they COULD have been worse, but even if it IS worse than is being reported, do you think they'd tell us?

I never said they weren't disasters.

What I said was that the dangers were exaggerated. The "OMG WE'RE ALL GONNA DIE!!!" was pretty much constant.

I prefer to deal with What Is instead of What Could Have Been.

------------------------------------------

Can you demonstrate a single instance in history where incursion by niggers blacks has resulted in excellence, prosperity, or improvement owing to their presence, inventiveness, or disposition?

PSUSA2  posted on  2013-05-12   8:07:40 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#107. To: titorite (#105) (Edited)

It crashed. No new vortex is created. The vortex behind it does not stop existing though... No it follows the direction of forward and outward as it was created until dissipation.... which can take several minutes.

Yes. It is BEHIND the plane, not in front.

You seem to have a problem with there being no vortex effects in FRONT of the plane after it hits the towers.

Quote:

"Their should be lots of examples of the wake Vortex slamming into the fireball explosion and subsequent smoke. "

The fireball was on the other side of the building after it crashed thru it. That's on video.

Quote:

"The text book "swirl" that makes all those con/chemtrails spiraled. ... It should be clearly evident in the smoke and explosions of the days event. "

No, because that is BEHIND the plane. Why would it be visible?

------------------------------------------

Can you demonstrate a single instance in history where incursion by niggers blacks has resulted in excellence, prosperity, or improvement owing to their presence, inventiveness, or disposition?

PSUSA2  posted on  2013-05-12   8:13:03 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#108. To: PSUSA2 (#107)

No, because that is BEHIND the plane.

Yes behind. It follows the plane.

If the plane crashes into towers then the vortex crashes into the towers too.

Unlike the plane, the vortex effect reforms and continues spinning forward and outward ... until it dissipates.

The explosion and subsequent smoke should of shown off the wake vortex effects typical of any winged aircraft (choppers included).

The effect should be able to be pointed out in the numerous photos and videos.

Should should should.

The tyranny relies on ignorance to oppress us.

This debate may not matter in the larger scheme of things.

I was just pointing this shit out because you gave me the post nod about it several posts back. If I can not educate you proper to all the details then I guess I am not a super duper teacher. Lord knows I had to learn all this shit myself.

Regardless of any of this it is like I said with the boats... you know a wake follows a boat. That boat scuttles aground and the wake is still, flowing outwards in the water, there while your cussing lifes little events. The wake vortex should of slammed into the fireball and swirled the smoke.

And this is just the planes we are speaking too.

We have not even touched on all the dare devil helicopters that never seem to affect burning towers smoke.

______________________________________

Suspect all media / resist bad propaganda/Learn NLP everyday everyway ;) (It's a more positive message)

titorite  posted on  2013-05-12   8:25:18 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#109. To: titorite (#108) (Edited)

Unlike the plane, the vortex effect reforms and continues spinning forward and outward ... until it dissipates.

Show me where the vortex continues forward after forward movement of the airplane stops. Dont just make the allegation. If you want to prove something, if you want to convince others, then use proof.

Since the vortex is created by movement, then when movement stops, the vortex is no longer being created. What you are saying is that the vortex continues to be created and travels forward after forward movement of the airplane stops.

------------------------------------------

Can you demonstrate a single instance in history where incursion by niggers blacks has resulted in excellence, prosperity, or improvement owing to their presence, inventiveness, or disposition?

PSUSA2  posted on  2013-05-12   8:41:03 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#110. To: PSUSA2 (#109) (Edited)

Show me where the vortex continues forward after forward movement of the airplane stops. Dont just make the allegation. If you want to prove something, if you want to convince others, then use proof.

Since the vortex is created by movement, then when movement stops, the vortex is no longer being created. What you are saying is that the vortex continues to be created and travels forward after forward movement of the airplane stops.

It is not an allegation Pusa.

The laws of physics are there regardless of what we say or think.

And I keep using the example of a boat wake because i am hopefull you have seen more water in your life... I am hopefull my example is relateable.

A boat speeds through the water... it makes a wake... it crashes on land and stops. The wake it made in the water continues to crash on the banks.

When a plane begins to make a wake vortex it takes awhile for the effect to dissipate.

Just like the boat.

______________________________________

Suspect all media / resist bad propaganda/Learn NLP everyday everyway ;) (It's a more positive message)

titorite  posted on  2013-05-12   8:52:58 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#111. To: titorite (#110) (Edited)

Your boat analogy doesn't cut it.

www.grc.nasa.gov/WWW/k-12/airplane/downwash.html

www.flywestwind.com/wtc/pprograms/turbulance.htm

Boats do not have wings. Wings are necessary in order to generate wingtip vortices. Airplanes do not fly on water.

I believe you are saying these things because you believe it all sounds right to you.

------------------------------------------

Can you demonstrate a single instance in history where incursion by niggers blacks has resulted in excellence, prosperity, or improvement owing to their presence, inventiveness, or disposition?

PSUSA2  posted on  2013-05-12   9:06:42 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#112. To: PSUSA2 (#111) (Edited)

I believe you are being stubborn on purpose but this does not change the facts of realty. The physical laws of the universe. I was trying to use the boat analogy because it does cut it. (ironic choice of words)

In fact it does exactly that.

It cuts through the water and makes a wake. The same could be said of the wings. They cut through the air and make a wake.

Now the thing forming the wake stop... explodes dies whatever.... That thing is not the wake.

The wake is a separate and independent thing.

You act as though a boat can float with out making a wake.

You act as though a plane can fly with out make a wake vortex.

You act as though you do not want to learn.

This is basic aerodynamics. Put the 911 thing aside for a moment.

You have seen a bon fire before. You know if you through something through that bon fire that the flame will follow the woft of air.

Now these planes have HUGE wofts of air following them

Should these planes crash the woft of air following them does not instantaneously stop.

Should these planes crash the woft of air following them does not evaporate immediately.

NO Sir!!

Should these planes crash the wake vortex woft of air will follow the path it was following right into the crash site.... swriling fire,smoke,and debris.

______________________________________

Suspect all media / resist bad propaganda/Learn NLP everyday everyway ;) (It's a more positive message)

titorite  posted on  2013-05-12   9:26:42 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#113. To: FormerLurker, Original_Intent (#36) (Edited)

Me: The reality is that the vast bulk of disinfo charges have been emanating fiercely from your sector from the get go. Since you are obviously oblivious to even that evidence trail, I say that's yet another reason why you should recuse yourself from the debates, as is this:

FL: If you'd like I can find the post where the accusations first got hurled.

You'll find that the first disinfo charge in this thread was made against No Planers by Dr. Ed Ward/DEW in the opening thread article that was posted by O_I, not a No Planer, and also in his opening comment there.

To recap, my first post at #11 here was not to address those charges in general against No Planers that were emanating unprovoked once again from your side's sector, as they typically have been (for the most part) lo these many years. The purpose of my first posting was simply to establish the factual evidence that the Pentagon trillions did not go missing on Zakheim's Comptroller watch, as is usually thought, but earlier. That was answered by O_I with vulgarity at #13 over debates about planes that he had launched with this topic -- not No Planers -- and another post by him at #17 equating No Planes research with planted disinfo, kookery and bull; later described by O_I as not attaking anyone in particular for believing differently -- i.e. merely directed derisively at all No Planers collectively. My one sentence explanation at #30 for why I disagreed with his downplayed claim of non-aggressiveness was backhanded at #53 as me being upset and unable to handle differing opinions rather than the other way around. In response to his "equation" at #17, though, and with no malintent, I stated my concerned opinion of the planes line as not only disinfo but MKULTRA-like PsyOp conditioning and what I see as some of the objectives of that in-process. The point that personalized attacks were blatantly inserted into this thread was your post at #21, FL.

This is one of the most bizarrely twisting and pointless Planer-mazes of "9/11 heresy" entrapment that I've ever had the regret to have encountered...Obstructionism, obliteration of continuity, hypocritical and false accusation, illogical dismissal of all No Planes evidence as invalid (even the documented evidence that Flt. 11 didn't fly that day in New York was of no interest to proof-demanders), speculative conjecture about remote control from Planers considered to be a valid case instead. All that's been established here with so many posts (other than the Pentagon missing money facts that took just 1 to present) is that, as usual, it is a vast waste of time to try and discuss planes vs. no planes with those who aren't much concerned with issues beyond exposing the official spin as implausible or impossible and who have no real intention of doing anything but pretending they've never seen anything from the No Planes investigations in all these years that they consider to be valid evidence because: only the evidence that they agree with as supportive of their belief system about planes should be considered as having any validity at all. As for your question at #40, FL:

So if someone said fairies with boots blew the towers over with fairie dust, the burden of proof would rest with those who claim that DIDN'T happen?

Pyrotechnic pixie dust is what Steven Jones, Niels Harrit and others claim blew the towers down. Even though the burden of proof is on them and not people like me who don't believe that, still I provided you with much evidence that refutes their thermitics claim and it doesn't become baseless/unsound/inadmissable/or invalid if you disagree. It stays in evidence for others to consider.

Edited for readability.

-------

"They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC

GreyLmist  posted on  2013-05-12   9:34:56 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#114. To: titorite (#112)

You act as though you do not want to learn.

This is basic aerodynamics.

You're taking this personally. It's not that I don't want to learn. It's that I refuse to just take someones word for anything. If you ever hope to convince someone that there were no planes involved, you have a long row to hoe.

Leave the personal crap out of it.

You write of physics and basic aerodynamics, and still find it necessary to use a boat (and now a bonfire) analogy. If you want to use physics or aerodynamics to prove your case, then use them.

------------------------------------------

Can you demonstrate a single instance in history where incursion by niggers blacks has resulted in excellence, prosperity, or improvement owing to their presence, inventiveness, or disposition?

PSUSA2  posted on  2013-05-12   9:43:13 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#115. To: PSUSA2 (#114) (Edited)

I am not taking it personally I assure you. Me and you been here to many years for that. As for the anologys. They are for your benifit . Not mine.

I already tried explaining basic aerodynamics to you.

You made mention of the vortices only being observable with smoke... Since you think that is so it demonstraits to me that you have a lack of understanding about wake vortex. .... and it shows me that I will have to... bring it down a notch to a better laymen level.

Anology

..... I must admit though... It does boggle my mind that you think the wind stops because an object making that wind stops.

A wake vortex is a spiraling wind in motion. It will dissapate when not being constantly created but it does not dissapate instantaneously.

Should these planes crash the woft of air following them does not instantaneously stop.

Should these planes crash the woft of air following them does not evaporate immediately.

Again no no no...

Should these planes crash the wake vortex woft of air will follow the path it was following right into the crash site.... swriling fire,smoke,and debris.

______________________________________

Suspect all media / resist bad propaganda/Learn NLP everyday everyway ;) (It's a more positive message)

titorite  posted on  2013-05-12   9:58:48 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#116. To: titorite (#115)

You made mention of the vortices only being observable with smoke

I made no such observation.

"It will dissapate when not being constantly created but it does not dissapate instantaneously. "

True. But it remains BEHIND the wing, not in front of it. When the plane stops, so does the vortex generation, because movement is what generates it. I never said that it's effects don't linger for a time.

------------------------------------------

Can you demonstrate a single instance in history where incursion by niggers blacks has resulted in excellence, prosperity, or improvement owing to their presence, inventiveness, or disposition?

PSUSA2  posted on  2013-05-12   10:06:32 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#117. To: PSUSA2 (#101)

In order for there to be any visible "swirl" caused by wingtip vortices, it must fly thru a medium such as smoke.

That must be the source of my confusion.

And I know the vortex is formed behind the wings. What I am trying to get across is that the vortex FOLLOWS the wings....

So if the wings fly into a wall

The wake vortex will follow right into that wall.

You do know these vortexes to follow along at lengths of miles yeah?

Full speed into a building should of netted a half hour of spinning wind smashing into a crash site. It should be observable in the pictures and videos.

The vortex.. It follows behind and INTO!

follow me yet?

______________________________________

Suspect all media / resist bad propaganda/Learn NLP everyday everyway ;) (It's a more positive message)

titorite  posted on  2013-05-12   10:21:16 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#118. To: titorite (#117)

And I know the vortex is formed behind the wings. What I am trying to get across is that the vortex FOLLOWS the wings....

WEll that goes without saying. If it is behind the wings, it follows the wings.

Yes I follow you.

The key word is "follow". Where we differ is you allege that vortices will continue in front of the wing if a plane stops.

Then you say that because there is no vortex evident in the fire and smoke, that means there was no plane. That fire was propelled out the opposite side of the building where there would be no vortex because it is in front of the airplane.

------------------------------------------

Can you demonstrate a single instance in history where incursion by niggers blacks has resulted in excellence, prosperity, or improvement owing to their presence, inventiveness, or disposition?

PSUSA2  posted on  2013-05-12   10:33:17 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#119. To: PSUSA2 (#118) (Edited)

Where we differ is you allege that vortices will continue in front of the wing if a plane stops.

Yes. That is not an alligation... it is a newtonian law.

It is called momentum.

The plane had something to stop it... a building.

The Vortex followed the wings... INTO THE BUILDING.

Or it would of had their been real wake vortex.

And yes I do assert that if we do not see the evidence for wake vortex it can only be because it isn't there... and if it isn't there then the thing that should of caused it is an illusion.

So..we agree that wake vortex can linger right? and that the vortex follows the wings and should the wings crash into a building the wake vortex created will also follow the wings slamming into whatever the wings slammed into.

Are we in agreement on that much?

______________________________________

Suspect all media / resist bad propaganda/Learn NLP everyday everyway ;) (It's a more positive message)

titorite  posted on  2013-05-12   10:50:06 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#120. To: titorite (#119)

So..we agree that wake vortex can linger right?

Yes.

"and that the vortex follows the wings and should the wings crash into a building the wake vortex created will also follow the wings slamming into whatever the wings slammed into. "

Yes.

Key word = "follow".

Not sure if the word "slamming" is accurate. How powerful is a wing tip vortex? It can flip a plane if one is following too closely but how much power is there I don't know.

Again, you seem to be saying that this vortex would have traveled thru the building and out the other side, leaving evidence of it in the smoke and fire that exited the building on the other side. That we don't agree on.

------------------------------------------

Can you demonstrate a single instance in history where incursion by niggers blacks has resulted in excellence, prosperity, or improvement owing to their presence, inventiveness, or disposition?

PSUSA2  posted on  2013-05-12   11:00:54 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#121. To: PSUSA2 (#120)

How powerful is a wing tip vortex? It can flip a plane if one is following too closely but how much power is there I don't know.

It can flip over a plane.

Do you think it can swirl fire and smoke given you know it can flip over a plane (their used to be this awesome video of a plane flipping over a car that was too close to a runway... I used to use that one for these kinds of expositions... alas.. the new youtube sucks.. just know it can flip cars too)

Again these vortexs can be miles long. Thats why they linger.

And no, they will not precede the plane.

However.. plane crashes and they will follow unto the point of impact...

The wake vortex would not of flown "through" the building.. but rather into the building,fireball,and smoke.

We should be able to see the same kind of swirl as shown off on the wiki pages about wake vortex turbulence.

That we can not should be a red flag.

You asked me for a picture of what I was speaking about and I let you know why I can not find one.

Can you find proof of the wake vortex effect where I could not?

______________________________________

Suspect all media / resist bad propaganda/Learn NLP everyday everyway ;) (It's a more positive message)

titorite  posted on  2013-05-12   11:11:40 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#122. To: titorite (#121)

We should be able to see the same kind of swirl as shown off on the wiki pages about wake vortex turbulence.

Should?

I'm not sure what you mean. I dont believe we are on the same page here.

Do you mean where the plane hit the building, or where the fire and debris exited at the other side of the building?

What proof of wing tip vortices do you mean? there are plenty of images on google.

If you mean why the vortices weren't seen where the plane impacted the tower, well most of the fire and debris exited the building on the other side of the tower.

------------------------------------------

Can you demonstrate a single instance in history where incursion by niggers blacks has resulted in excellence, prosperity, or improvement owing to their presence, inventiveness, or disposition?

PSUSA2  posted on  2013-05-12   11:50:21 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#123. To: PSUSA2 (#122)

If you mean why the vortices weren't seen where the plane impacted the tower, well most of the fire and debris exited the building on the other side of the tower.

NOOOOOOO Noooo non no no

Nope no

That is not how the laws of physics works... Like you, bullshitting about what coulda been is not my style.

The fire and debris were not all ejected from only one side of the building. You did not say that was so, but how you imply it... No man.. It was a big fire ball

Emphasis on the word FIREBALL

Then smoke.

The wake vortex following a plane travelling at full speed would of been miles long. It would of followed into the fireball and made a mess of that smoke trail...

It would not of flown through the building.

Into it yes.

Threw it?

no

Swirled fire and smoke?

that would of been present had the wake vortex been there... since it wasn't that leads it self to an uncofortable conclusion.

Remove all that you know is false once you know it is false for certain.

______________________________________

Suspect all media / resist bad propaganda/Learn NLP everyday everyway ;) (It's a more positive message)

titorite  posted on  2013-05-12   12:05:55 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#124. To: titorite (#123)

The fire and debris were not all ejected from only one side of the building. You did not say that was so, but how you imply it... No man.. It was a big fire ball

www.youtube.com/watch?fea...lpage&v=EFiEgwLQVJk#t=57s

I implied nothing.

------------------------------------------

Can you demonstrate a single instance in history where incursion by niggers blacks has resulted in excellence, prosperity, or improvement owing to their presence, inventiveness, or disposition?

PSUSA2  posted on  2013-05-12   12:58:14 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#125. To: PSUSA2 (#124)

And this is why I went with anology. For me it is a really easy concept understand . Wind vortex follows the plane. This can be googled.

Even if the plane blows up the created vortex will still follow forward.

Seems like an easy concept.

I have severe trouble understanding what you fail to grasp about it?

Again : just because the a plane crashes , this does not make the wake vortex disappear.

NOr does it run through the building like you imply.... Not with out wofting the fire ball.

I don't know how some people can look at something before them and swear to god that it isnt there.... I can't lie to myself like that.

______________________________________

Suspect all media / resist bad propaganda/Learn NLP everyday everyway ;) (It's a more positive message)

titorite  posted on  2013-05-12   14:00:23 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#126. To: titorite, wudidiz (#96)

No he doesn't Wudidiz is just fine.

Neither one of you EVER debate a subject with any degree of intelligence, so I guess in your eyes, he IS doing just fine.

You on the otherhand former lurker, are a tyranny worshipping monster.

I guess in your Orwellian mind set, where worshipping the state produced disinfo stories such as "no planes hit the WTC on 9/11", and "space beams destroyed them rather than conventional explosives" is required to be a "true patriot", I'm a heretic.


"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2013-05-12   14:06:56 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#127. To: wudidiz (#98)

Noone except yourself here has made the claim that in order for a psyop to happen the whole populaton of New York must be conspirators.

You claim the hijacked aircraft never took off that day. If that were true, don't you think someone at the airport would have noticed? Don't you think the victims or their families would have said, "hey wait, we (or they) were never on that flight"?

Do you think the "fake video" could have been broadcast without the news crews on the scene and the production crews at the news centers knowing that what was being broacast wasn't really happennig, or the people who were standing there watching it unfold live wouldn't have noticed?

Why do YOU launch personal attacks rather than debate any facts, and rely on childish rants and accusations to "make your case"?


"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2013-05-12   14:16:14 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#128. To: titorite, PSUSA2, SKYDRIFTER (#108)

Yes behind. It follows the plane.

It is formed BEHIND the plane, but does NOT follow it with its own motion.


"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2013-05-12   14:17:53 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#129. To: titorite (#110)

The laws of physics are there regardless of what we say or think.

Describe the laws of physics as they apply to what you claim.


"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2013-05-12   14:18:41 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#130. To: FormerLurker (#128)

It is formed BEHIND the plane, but does NOT follow it with its own motion.

That's what I was trying to get thru to him. It's as if he thinks it takes on a life of it's own after there is nothing left to create a vortex.

------------------------------------------

Can you demonstrate a single instance in history where incursion by niggers blacks has resulted in excellence, prosperity, or improvement owing to their presence, inventiveness, or disposition?

PSUSA2  posted on  2013-05-12   14:21:29 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#131. To: GreyLmist (#113)

You'll find that the first disinfo charge in this thread was made against No Planers by Dr. Ed Ward/DEW in the opening thread article that was posted by O_I, not a No Planer, and also in his opening comment there.

You'll find that with the exception of yourself, "no planners" modus operandi is to hurl insults, accusations, conjecture, and junk science, ignoring any amount of reason or logic which utterly disproves their claims.


"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2013-05-12   14:22:14 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#132. To: PSUSA2 (#130)

Don't expect him to concede ANYTHING, no matter how trivial it is...


"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2013-05-12   14:22:50 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#133. To: titorite (#125)

Wind vortex follows the plane. This can be googled.

No need. I already knew this

" Even if the plane blows up the created vortex will still follow forward. "

Forward past the nose of the (crashed) plane? Prove it.

" Again : just because the a plane crashes , this does not make the wake vortex disappear. "

I can see how it would exist for a time, BEHIND the wings.

------------------------------------------

Can you demonstrate a single instance in history where incursion by niggers blacks has resulted in excellence, prosperity, or improvement owing to their presence, inventiveness, or disposition?

PSUSA2  posted on  2013-05-12   14:25:04 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#134. To: FormerLurker (#132)

I dont even think we're on the same page here. This whole thread is a mess.

------------------------------------------

Can you demonstrate a single instance in history where incursion by niggers blacks has resulted in excellence, prosperity, or improvement owing to their presence, inventiveness, or disposition?

PSUSA2  posted on  2013-05-12   14:26:18 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#135. To: wudidiz (#98)

And IF this "fake video" were truly produced with the intent of killing 3000 people on that fateful morning, and broadcast as if it were truly happening, they would have gotten it right BEFORE airing it worldwide?

And don't you think the hundreds of thousands of bystanders who actually SAW what was going on would have said what they were seeing was different than what was aired?


"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2013-05-12   14:29:19 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#136. To: PSUSA2 (#134)

I dont even think we're on the same page here. This whole thread is a mess.

No we are. I was just stating that no matter HOW you explain it to him, he will refuse to concede ANYTHING which will eliminate one of his programmed "facts" which he's been fed.


"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2013-05-12   14:30:45 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  



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