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9/11
See other 9/11 Articles

Title: 9 11 Fake Video Stars: The J Star Clones – Why Covert Operation’s Cointel Must Have ‘Fake’ Video and ‘No Planes’
Source: Ed Ward, MD's Blog: US Tyranny & Treason
URL Source: http://edwardmd.wordpress.com/
Published: May 5, 2013
Author: Ed Ward M.D.
Post Date: 2013-05-05 20:49:50 by Original_Intent
Keywords: planes, no-planes, 911, towers
Views: 28260
Comments: 451

9 11 Fake Video Stars: The J Star Clones – Why Covert Operation’s Cointel Must Have ‘Fake’ Video and ‘No Planes’

9 11 Fake Video Stars: The J Star Clones - Why Covert Operation's Cointel Must Have 'Fake' Video

US Government Problem: Video of the planes needed to actually fly into the WTCs are readily available to the public.

US Government Solution: Promote the Videos as ‘fake’ based on ‘pixel’ BS – This solves the ‘evidence’ problem while never noting that the planes are NOT commercial airliners – which are not structurally capable of performing the tasks and look nothing like the photographic proof that commercial airliners are ‘not in the picture’ and US Government Military Planes are ‘in the picture’. Actually, an excellent scam premise when pumped out by the covert op truth troops.

Wingtips say B 767-400ERE-10A is THE CLONE USED to fly into the WTCs – Unless someone has a version that matches the video better.

The videos show that a Boeing 767-400ER E-10A was the supposed Super-Powered’ Commercial Airliner’. (One of these all very similar clones is clearly seen – one version of these clones has the ‘swept’ back wingtips used to discredit the video as fakery by some… Boeing 767-400ER E-10A) All early videos show the pod and the swept back wing – Recently, I’ve seen newer posts of truth videos in which the planes have neither.

Something that is fake can prove nothing, except that it is fake. It can not prove whether, how, or even if an actual event happened or not. Of course for this premise of ‘fake’ video proving anything one must also believe that during planning…

Someone says, since the plan is to use hijacked airliners, “Hey, let’s not use real planes. Let’s truck the plane parts in, crews to lay them out, people to say they saw planes, etc, et al, and just make some fake videos of planes going into the towers. Now, when we make these fake videos, instead of photoshopping in a commercial airliner with windows, we’ll photoshop in the plane needed to actually do it. Everybody high fives and says, ‘yeah, it’s just our lives on the line for treason.’ ”

Next day, the moron is no longer a threat… most likely scenario, taken out by their own family out of fear they’d all be taken out. It’s ludicrous on multiple levels.. Not just one.

The Ivy Flats Video, the testing of the first micro nuke, the Davy Crockett, is a perfect example of a camera that simply is too slow. Sure, cameras are a lot faster now, so have the travel speeds. They capture erratic images AT BEST when velocity exceeds capture speed images/PIXELS distort. Fact as clearly seen on the Ivy Flats video as soldiers move off train watch what happens to their legs. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nv_q8q6Z9_I

Fake video is only important if one NEEDS to disprove video evidence that a SUPER POWERED IRREGULAR SHAPED, NON WINDOWED ‘COMMERCIAL AIRLINER’ FLEW INTO THE WTCS – INDIRECTLY, without drawing attention to the fact a military aircraft flew into the WTCs. It’s still being done today by so called ‘truthers’. Did the ‘truther orgs’ say? The US government has been caught using its own planes to destroy the WTCs? No everything was silent and then came the need for the ‘fake video’ call.

No Windows in Flight 175 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jRC4lCQuBmc&feature=related

Evaluation of Video Footage – for WTC comparisons…

http://911review.org/Wiki/Wtc2PlanePod.shtml

Photo: Boeing N256BA – E-10 MC2A http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3040/2351680318_dcaff7147e_z.jpg?zz=1

Related photos: http://www.spyflight.co.uk/767%20mc2a.htm

There are additional photos in original article ’9 11 Fake Video Stars: The JSTAR Clones. Why Covert Ops Must Have Fake Video 9-11 Fake Video Stars – The JSTAR Clones 10-1-10 Note, the little blue decal up front – one of the WTC witnesses claims to have seen one on the ‘plane that flew into..) BTW, eye witness testimony – the LEAST valuable information WITHOUT additional evidence. http://www.rense.com/general92/911fk.htm

F-4 Phantom at 500 mph into a solid concrete wall http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AB4IEa7jTJw

(Bullets Into Steel – Under pressure and friction metals tend to liquefy) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QfFoMyMoiX4

The wall was 12 ft thick, THE PLANE WAS NOT FILLED WITH WATER, but the tanks were to simulate fuel.

“But there was a test similar to what is described above. In 1988, an
unmanned F-4 Phantom, ballasted with water and mounted on rails, was
“flown” into a concrete wall at 480 MPH. As reported, the plane crumpled,
and penetrated only about 2 inches of concrete. A very impressive test -
except it wasn’t meant to be a test of nuclear reactor safety. The wall
the F-4 crashed into was not a simulation of a nuclear plant’s wall. It
was a 12-foot-thick wall mounted on an air cushion. The test was designed to study impact forces by measuring how far the impact would push the wall. Breaking through the concrete was the last thing any of the involved scientists wanted to achieve. Furthermore, the F-4 was ballasted with water to give it the same weight as a plane fully loaded with fuel, and its final weight was 42,000 pounds. Needless to say, crashing a 412,000 pound 767 loaded with fuel into a fixed wall would have slightly different results.

Because according to a 1982 study by the Argonne National Laboratory in Illinois – a study which was conducted by request of the DOE and the NRC – the explosion from a 707 crashing into a containment dome at 466 MPH would probably overwhelm the reactor’s shielding. Note – that’s a 707, which weighs 336,000 pounds. In 1982 those were big jets. But we’ve “advanced” considerably since then. The 767s that were flown into the World Trade Center weighed 80,000 pounds more than that and carried a lot more fuel.

Other studies, again conducted for the NRC at the Lawrence Livermore
National Laboratory, found that a 125,000 pound jet had a 32 % chance of piercing a containment building’s six-foot base and an 84 % chance of
breaking through the dome.” http://everything2.com/user/DejaMorgana/writeups/Nuclear+Power

“A key report, Sugano et al 1992, covers a rocket sled crash experiment using an F-4D Phantom jet fighter impacting into a 10 foot thick reinforced concrete block.

Sandia notes:
The purpose of the test was to determine the impact force, versus time, due to the impact, of a complete F-4 Phantom — including both engines — onto a massive, essentially rigid reinforced concrete target (3.66 meters thick). Previous tests used F-4 engines at similar speeds. The test was not intended to demonstrate the performance (survivability) of any particular type of concrete structure to aircraft impact. The impact occurred at the nominal velocity of 215 meters per second (about 480 mph). The mass of the jet fuel was simulated by water; the effects of fire following such a collision was not a part of the test. The test established that the major impact force was from the engines. The test was performed by Sandia National Laboratories under terms of a contract with the Muto Institute of Structural Mechanics, Inc., of Tokyo.

With very minimal damage to the concrete target block, the plane and its engines were easily converted into small chunks of metal confetti and shrapnel at the physical interface of the two impact objects. Upon initial impact, the follow-on rear portions of the plane yet to make contact retained their shape integrity until their respective impact. (This seriously contradicts claims by Jean-Pierre Desmoulins that the wings of a 757 would have folded forward, as well as claims in the popular press that the wings folded back before entering the “too-small” hole.) The resulting shear caused debris being spread out to the left, right, and rear of the impact locus, having no ability to proceed in their original vector path, having grossly failed the test of strength with the concrete block. However, the wings are wider than the concrete block, so the wingtips are sheared off whole, and they tumble forward after being cleanly separated from the aircraft.

F4 aircraft impacting a solid concrete barrier. Note that the wings and tail do not fold as the nose impacts the concrete. (source: don’t bother moved -http://www.sandia.gov/media/NRgallery00-03.htm)

Sugano (in itself) doesn’t show that a 757 hitting the Pentagon would be turned into confetti and small chunks, but it does show that an F4 was completely destroyed in arguably similar circumstances. Furthermore, it wasn’t anywhere close to an even contest between the wall and the F4. The F4 started with a speed of 215 m/sec — and the tail was still traveling at 185 m/sec when it smashed into the wall. The F4 is a very strongly build aircraft, although at 18 meters long and 19 kg, it’s about a third the length and a fifth the weight of the 757. In terms of comparing what would happen to a 757 versus what happened to the F4, it would be difficult to do an accurate calculation without detailed design information on both aircraft. In a preliminary analysis, the extra length of the 757 means that it has three times the distance to decelerate — but the 757 is also much heavier, so it’s more difficult for the crushing process to supply enough force to decelerate even as rapidly as the F4 did.” http://www.911-strike.com/missing-confetti.htm The article from the ‘pentagon disinformation unit’ counters the information from the ‘WTC no planes disinformation unit’.

Ed Ward, MD – http://edwardmd.wordpress.com/ ;
https://www.facebook.com/EdWardMD3 ; http://groups.yahoo.com/group/EdWard-MD/messages

More US Drill Death in Waco Explosion – Drill Stops for Reality, Again http://edwardmd.wordpress.com/2013/04/28/more-us-drill-death-in-waco-drill-stops-for-reality-again/

Boston Marathon: The Finish Line For US Treason. Drill Death. Everything’s In Place For Police State. by Ed Ward, MD http://edwardmd.wordpress.com/2013/04/16/boston-marathon-the-finish-line-for-us-treason-drill-death-everything-is-in-place-for-police-state-by-ed-ward-md/

Pictures: US Boston Weapon – Both ‘Explosions’ – The Secret of the Pure Fusion Weapon – Li7 – Lithium 7 http://edwardmd.wordpress.com/2013/04/19/photograph-of-boston-fireball-2nd-explosion/

Dr. Ed Ward MD, AS, BS, MD – Reporting and investigating Constitutional abuses of the US government for almost 2 decades. AS, BS in Medical Technology – Minor in Organic Chemistry and Physics, volunteer during the Viet Nam war 6 years stateside active duty ‘med tech’ ‘US Air Farce’ – a decade experience in Medical Technology. MD degree from LSU, New Orleans – 2 decades in the field of General Practice. (My) Articles are also referenced by valid experts in their field.


Poster Comment:

For you "no planers" there are other rational explanations other than the planted disinfo (to discredit questions on 911) that there were no planes.(1 image)

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#113. To: FormerLurker, Original_Intent (#36) (Edited)

Me: The reality is that the vast bulk of disinfo charges have been emanating fiercely from your sector from the get go. Since you are obviously oblivious to even that evidence trail, I say that's yet another reason why you should recuse yourself from the debates, as is this:

FL: If you'd like I can find the post where the accusations first got hurled.

You'll find that the first disinfo charge in this thread was made against No Planers by Dr. Ed Ward/DEW in the opening thread article that was posted by O_I, not a No Planer, and also in his opening comment there.

To recap, my first post at #11 here was not to address those charges in general against No Planers that were emanating unprovoked once again from your side's sector, as they typically have been (for the most part) lo these many years. The purpose of my first posting was simply to establish the factual evidence that the Pentagon trillions did not go missing on Zakheim's Comptroller watch, as is usually thought, but earlier. That was answered by O_I with vulgarity at #13 over debates about planes that he had launched with this topic -- not No Planers -- and another post by him at #17 equating No Planes research with planted disinfo, kookery and bull; later described by O_I as not attaking anyone in particular for believing differently -- i.e. merely directed derisively at all No Planers collectively. My one sentence explanation at #30 for why I disagreed with his downplayed claim of non-aggressiveness was backhanded at #53 as me being upset and unable to handle differing opinions rather than the other way around. In response to his "equation" at #17, though, and with no malintent, I stated my concerned opinion of the planes line as not only disinfo but MKULTRA-like PsyOp conditioning and what I see as some of the objectives of that in-process. The point that personalized attacks were blatantly inserted into this thread was your post at #21, FL.

This is one of the most bizarrely twisting and pointless Planer-mazes of "9/11 heresy" entrapment that I've ever had the regret to have encountered...Obstructionism, obliteration of continuity, hypocritical and false accusation, illogical dismissal of all No Planes evidence as invalid (even the documented evidence that Flt. 11 didn't fly that day in New York was of no interest to proof-demanders), speculative conjecture about remote control from Planers considered to be a valid case instead. All that's been established here with so many posts (other than the Pentagon missing money facts that took just 1 to present) is that, as usual, it is a vast waste of time to try and discuss planes vs. no planes with those who aren't much concerned with issues beyond exposing the official spin as implausible or impossible and who have no real intention of doing anything but pretending they've never seen anything from the No Planes investigations in all these years that they consider to be valid evidence because: only the evidence that they agree with as supportive of their belief system about planes should be considered as having any validity at all. As for your question at #40, FL:

So if someone said fairies with boots blew the towers over with fairie dust, the burden of proof would rest with those who claim that DIDN'T happen?

Pyrotechnic pixie dust is what Steven Jones, Niels Harrit and others claim blew the towers down. Even though the burden of proof is on them and not people like me who don't believe that, still I provided you with much evidence that refutes their thermitics claim and it doesn't become baseless/unsound/inadmissable/or invalid if you disagree. It stays in evidence for others to consider.

Edited for readability.

-------

"They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC

GreyLmist  posted on  2013-05-12   9:34:56 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#114. To: titorite (#112)

You act as though you do not want to learn.

This is basic aerodynamics.

You're taking this personally. It's not that I don't want to learn. It's that I refuse to just take someones word for anything. If you ever hope to convince someone that there were no planes involved, you have a long row to hoe.

Leave the personal crap out of it.

You write of physics and basic aerodynamics, and still find it necessary to use a boat (and now a bonfire) analogy. If you want to use physics or aerodynamics to prove your case, then use them.

------------------------------------------

Can you demonstrate a single instance in history where incursion by niggers blacks has resulted in excellence, prosperity, or improvement owing to their presence, inventiveness, or disposition?

PSUSA2  posted on  2013-05-12   9:43:13 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#115. To: PSUSA2 (#114) (Edited)

I am not taking it personally I assure you. Me and you been here to many years for that. As for the anologys. They are for your benifit . Not mine.

I already tried explaining basic aerodynamics to you.

You made mention of the vortices only being observable with smoke... Since you think that is so it demonstraits to me that you have a lack of understanding about wake vortex. .... and it shows me that I will have to... bring it down a notch to a better laymen level.

Anology

..... I must admit though... It does boggle my mind that you think the wind stops because an object making that wind stops.

A wake vortex is a spiraling wind in motion. It will dissapate when not being constantly created but it does not dissapate instantaneously.

Should these planes crash the woft of air following them does not instantaneously stop.

Should these planes crash the woft of air following them does not evaporate immediately.

Again no no no...

Should these planes crash the wake vortex woft of air will follow the path it was following right into the crash site.... swriling fire,smoke,and debris.

______________________________________

Suspect all media / resist bad propaganda/Learn NLP everyday everyway ;) (It's a more positive message)

titorite  posted on  2013-05-12   9:58:48 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#116. To: titorite (#115)

You made mention of the vortices only being observable with smoke

I made no such observation.

"It will dissapate when not being constantly created but it does not dissapate instantaneously. "

True. But it remains BEHIND the wing, not in front of it. When the plane stops, so does the vortex generation, because movement is what generates it. I never said that it's effects don't linger for a time.

------------------------------------------

Can you demonstrate a single instance in history where incursion by niggers blacks has resulted in excellence, prosperity, or improvement owing to their presence, inventiveness, or disposition?

PSUSA2  posted on  2013-05-12   10:06:32 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#117. To: PSUSA2 (#101)

In order for there to be any visible "swirl" caused by wingtip vortices, it must fly thru a medium such as smoke.

That must be the source of my confusion.

And I know the vortex is formed behind the wings. What I am trying to get across is that the vortex FOLLOWS the wings....

So if the wings fly into a wall

The wake vortex will follow right into that wall.

You do know these vortexes to follow along at lengths of miles yeah?

Full speed into a building should of netted a half hour of spinning wind smashing into a crash site. It should be observable in the pictures and videos.

The vortex.. It follows behind and INTO!

follow me yet?

______________________________________

Suspect all media / resist bad propaganda/Learn NLP everyday everyway ;) (It's a more positive message)

titorite  posted on  2013-05-12   10:21:16 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#118. To: titorite (#117)

And I know the vortex is formed behind the wings. What I am trying to get across is that the vortex FOLLOWS the wings....

WEll that goes without saying. If it is behind the wings, it follows the wings.

Yes I follow you.

The key word is "follow". Where we differ is you allege that vortices will continue in front of the wing if a plane stops.

Then you say that because there is no vortex evident in the fire and smoke, that means there was no plane. That fire was propelled out the opposite side of the building where there would be no vortex because it is in front of the airplane.

------------------------------------------

Can you demonstrate a single instance in history where incursion by niggers blacks has resulted in excellence, prosperity, or improvement owing to their presence, inventiveness, or disposition?

PSUSA2  posted on  2013-05-12   10:33:17 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#119. To: PSUSA2 (#118) (Edited)

Where we differ is you allege that vortices will continue in front of the wing if a plane stops.

Yes. That is not an alligation... it is a newtonian law.

It is called momentum.

The plane had something to stop it... a building.

The Vortex followed the wings... INTO THE BUILDING.

Or it would of had their been real wake vortex.

And yes I do assert that if we do not see the evidence for wake vortex it can only be because it isn't there... and if it isn't there then the thing that should of caused it is an illusion.

So..we agree that wake vortex can linger right? and that the vortex follows the wings and should the wings crash into a building the wake vortex created will also follow the wings slamming into whatever the wings slammed into.

Are we in agreement on that much?

______________________________________

Suspect all media / resist bad propaganda/Learn NLP everyday everyway ;) (It's a more positive message)

titorite  posted on  2013-05-12   10:50:06 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#120. To: titorite (#119)

So..we agree that wake vortex can linger right?

Yes.

"and that the vortex follows the wings and should the wings crash into a building the wake vortex created will also follow the wings slamming into whatever the wings slammed into. "

Yes.

Key word = "follow".

Not sure if the word "slamming" is accurate. How powerful is a wing tip vortex? It can flip a plane if one is following too closely but how much power is there I don't know.

Again, you seem to be saying that this vortex would have traveled thru the building and out the other side, leaving evidence of it in the smoke and fire that exited the building on the other side. That we don't agree on.

------------------------------------------

Can you demonstrate a single instance in history where incursion by niggers blacks has resulted in excellence, prosperity, or improvement owing to their presence, inventiveness, or disposition?

PSUSA2  posted on  2013-05-12   11:00:54 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#121. To: PSUSA2 (#120)

How powerful is a wing tip vortex? It can flip a plane if one is following too closely but how much power is there I don't know.

It can flip over a plane.

Do you think it can swirl fire and smoke given you know it can flip over a plane (their used to be this awesome video of a plane flipping over a car that was too close to a runway... I used to use that one for these kinds of expositions... alas.. the new youtube sucks.. just know it can flip cars too)

Again these vortexs can be miles long. Thats why they linger.

And no, they will not precede the plane.

However.. plane crashes and they will follow unto the point of impact...

The wake vortex would not of flown "through" the building.. but rather into the building,fireball,and smoke.

We should be able to see the same kind of swirl as shown off on the wiki pages about wake vortex turbulence.

That we can not should be a red flag.

You asked me for a picture of what I was speaking about and I let you know why I can not find one.

Can you find proof of the wake vortex effect where I could not?

______________________________________

Suspect all media / resist bad propaganda/Learn NLP everyday everyway ;) (It's a more positive message)

titorite  posted on  2013-05-12   11:11:40 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#122. To: titorite (#121)

We should be able to see the same kind of swirl as shown off on the wiki pages about wake vortex turbulence.

Should?

I'm not sure what you mean. I dont believe we are on the same page here.

Do you mean where the plane hit the building, or where the fire and debris exited at the other side of the building?

What proof of wing tip vortices do you mean? there are plenty of images on google.

If you mean why the vortices weren't seen where the plane impacted the tower, well most of the fire and debris exited the building on the other side of the tower.

------------------------------------------

Can you demonstrate a single instance in history where incursion by niggers blacks has resulted in excellence, prosperity, or improvement owing to their presence, inventiveness, or disposition?

PSUSA2  posted on  2013-05-12   11:50:21 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#123. To: PSUSA2 (#122)

If you mean why the vortices weren't seen where the plane impacted the tower, well most of the fire and debris exited the building on the other side of the tower.

NOOOOOOO Noooo non no no

Nope no

That is not how the laws of physics works... Like you, bullshitting about what coulda been is not my style.

The fire and debris were not all ejected from only one side of the building. You did not say that was so, but how you imply it... No man.. It was a big fire ball

Emphasis on the word FIREBALL

Then smoke.

The wake vortex following a plane travelling at full speed would of been miles long. It would of followed into the fireball and made a mess of that smoke trail...

It would not of flown through the building.

Into it yes.

Threw it?

no

Swirled fire and smoke?

that would of been present had the wake vortex been there... since it wasn't that leads it self to an uncofortable conclusion.

Remove all that you know is false once you know it is false for certain.

______________________________________

Suspect all media / resist bad propaganda/Learn NLP everyday everyway ;) (It's a more positive message)

titorite  posted on  2013-05-12   12:05:55 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#124. To: titorite (#123)

The fire and debris were not all ejected from only one side of the building. You did not say that was so, but how you imply it... No man.. It was a big fire ball

www.youtube.com/watch?fea...lpage&v=EFiEgwLQVJk#t=57s

I implied nothing.

------------------------------------------

Can you demonstrate a single instance in history where incursion by niggers blacks has resulted in excellence, prosperity, or improvement owing to their presence, inventiveness, or disposition?

PSUSA2  posted on  2013-05-12   12:58:14 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#125. To: PSUSA2 (#124)

And this is why I went with anology. For me it is a really easy concept understand . Wind vortex follows the plane. This can be googled.

Even if the plane blows up the created vortex will still follow forward.

Seems like an easy concept.

I have severe trouble understanding what you fail to grasp about it?

Again : just because the a plane crashes , this does not make the wake vortex disappear.

NOr does it run through the building like you imply.... Not with out wofting the fire ball.

I don't know how some people can look at something before them and swear to god that it isnt there.... I can't lie to myself like that.

______________________________________

Suspect all media / resist bad propaganda/Learn NLP everyday everyway ;) (It's a more positive message)

titorite  posted on  2013-05-12   14:00:23 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#126. To: titorite, wudidiz (#96)

No he doesn't Wudidiz is just fine.

Neither one of you EVER debate a subject with any degree of intelligence, so I guess in your eyes, he IS doing just fine.

You on the otherhand former lurker, are a tyranny worshipping monster.

I guess in your Orwellian mind set, where worshipping the state produced disinfo stories such as "no planes hit the WTC on 9/11", and "space beams destroyed them rather than conventional explosives" is required to be a "true patriot", I'm a heretic.


"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2013-05-12   14:06:56 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#127. To: wudidiz (#98)

Noone except yourself here has made the claim that in order for a psyop to happen the whole populaton of New York must be conspirators.

You claim the hijacked aircraft never took off that day. If that were true, don't you think someone at the airport would have noticed? Don't you think the victims or their families would have said, "hey wait, we (or they) were never on that flight"?

Do you think the "fake video" could have been broadcast without the news crews on the scene and the production crews at the news centers knowing that what was being broacast wasn't really happennig, or the people who were standing there watching it unfold live wouldn't have noticed?

Why do YOU launch personal attacks rather than debate any facts, and rely on childish rants and accusations to "make your case"?


"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2013-05-12   14:16:14 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#128. To: titorite, PSUSA2, SKYDRIFTER (#108)

Yes behind. It follows the plane.

It is formed BEHIND the plane, but does NOT follow it with its own motion.


"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2013-05-12   14:17:53 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#129. To: titorite (#110)

The laws of physics are there regardless of what we say or think.

Describe the laws of physics as they apply to what you claim.


"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2013-05-12   14:18:41 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#130. To: FormerLurker (#128)

It is formed BEHIND the plane, but does NOT follow it with its own motion.

That's what I was trying to get thru to him. It's as if he thinks it takes on a life of it's own after there is nothing left to create a vortex.

------------------------------------------

Can you demonstrate a single instance in history where incursion by niggers blacks has resulted in excellence, prosperity, or improvement owing to their presence, inventiveness, or disposition?

PSUSA2  posted on  2013-05-12   14:21:29 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#131. To: GreyLmist (#113)

You'll find that the first disinfo charge in this thread was made against No Planers by Dr. Ed Ward/DEW in the opening thread article that was posted by O_I, not a No Planer, and also in his opening comment there.

You'll find that with the exception of yourself, "no planners" modus operandi is to hurl insults, accusations, conjecture, and junk science, ignoring any amount of reason or logic which utterly disproves their claims.


"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2013-05-12   14:22:14 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#132. To: PSUSA2 (#130)

Don't expect him to concede ANYTHING, no matter how trivial it is...


"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2013-05-12   14:22:50 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#133. To: titorite (#125)

Wind vortex follows the plane. This can be googled.

No need. I already knew this

" Even if the plane blows up the created vortex will still follow forward. "

Forward past the nose of the (crashed) plane? Prove it.

" Again : just because the a plane crashes , this does not make the wake vortex disappear. "

I can see how it would exist for a time, BEHIND the wings.

------------------------------------------

Can you demonstrate a single instance in history where incursion by niggers blacks has resulted in excellence, prosperity, or improvement owing to their presence, inventiveness, or disposition?

PSUSA2  posted on  2013-05-12   14:25:04 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#134. To: FormerLurker (#132)

I dont even think we're on the same page here. This whole thread is a mess.

------------------------------------------

Can you demonstrate a single instance in history where incursion by niggers blacks has resulted in excellence, prosperity, or improvement owing to their presence, inventiveness, or disposition?

PSUSA2  posted on  2013-05-12   14:26:18 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#135. To: wudidiz (#98)

And IF this "fake video" were truly produced with the intent of killing 3000 people on that fateful morning, and broadcast as if it were truly happening, they would have gotten it right BEFORE airing it worldwide?

And don't you think the hundreds of thousands of bystanders who actually SAW what was going on would have said what they were seeing was different than what was aired?


"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2013-05-12   14:29:19 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#136. To: PSUSA2 (#134)

I dont even think we're on the same page here. This whole thread is a mess.

No we are. I was just stating that no matter HOW you explain it to him, he will refuse to concede ANYTHING which will eliminate one of his programmed "facts" which he's been fed.


"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2013-05-12   14:30:45 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#137. To: FormerLurker (#136)

Well he did say that I was lying to myself.

If people want to believe there were no planes, more power to them. Just so they know they are going to meet some stiff resistance if they try and convince other people.

------------------------------------------

Can you demonstrate a single instance in history where incursion by niggers blacks has resulted in excellence, prosperity, or improvement owing to their presence, inventiveness, or disposition?

PSUSA2  posted on  2013-05-12   14:34:28 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#138. To: titorite, PSUSA (#119) (Edited)

Yes. That is not an alligation... it is a newtonian law.

It is called momentum.

I bet you couldn't explain the Law of Momentum even if you had a physics book right in front of you.

Thing is, vortices have no momentum in the direction of travel of the aircraft, they are simply circular air currents which form behind the aircraft, they do not travel forward.

Again, do you think those who masterminded 9/11 would have rolled the dice and hoped nobody on the scene would have noticed that no aircraft hit the WTC, it simply blew up with an aircraft shaped entrance hole?

THOUSANDS of people at minimum saw the second aircraft strike the WTC. People WERE jumping off to their deaths, contrary to your comrades claim that they were mannequins being tossed off by "conspirators inside the building".


"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2013-05-12   14:39:24 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#139. To: PSUSA2 (#137) (Edited)

If people want to believe there were no planes, more power to them. Just so they know they are going to meet some stiff resistance if they try and convince other people.

They simply call people who don't believe them "tyranny loving disinfo agents", sort of like how Larouche supporters call those who don't support their hero "homosexuals".


"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2013-05-12   14:40:25 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#140. To: FormerLurker (#139)

They simply call people who don't believe them "tyranny loving disinfo agents", sort of like how Larouche supporters call those who don't support their hero "homosexuals".

Some do. They aren't doing themselves any favors by exposing their own stupidity like that. They seem to have an authoritarian streak. They will be believed, or else, and reason be damned.

------------------------------------------

Can you demonstrate a single instance in history where incursion by niggers blacks has resulted in excellence, prosperity, or improvement owing to their presence, inventiveness, or disposition?

PSUSA2  posted on  2013-05-12   15:05:29 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#141. To: titorite, Christine, FormerLurker, Lod, Artisian, Wudidiz, GreyLmist, IRTorqued, Robin, StephenLendman, Original_Intent, RickyJ, Tartarwitz, BTPHoldings, itisalreadytolate (#95)

How could a person such as yourself be ignorant to this fact?

I want you and EVERYONE to note that I specifically asked you (an alleged qualified pilot captain) about wake vortex.


Titorite, my apologies, I took it for granted that you were referring to the more commonly known “wake turbulence.” In my personal experience, I’ve known few qualified pilots to use the term “wake vortex.” In fact, I'm more than surprised that you know that particular term. However, the term. “wake vortex,” is pertinent and – in fact – is documented on 9-11 to anyone’s intelligent satisfaction. As I illustrate, I hope you are also satisfied.

"Wake vortex" is most prominently witnessed by the human eye in the presence of reasonably dense clouds, fog or smoke. It can also be evidenced at high cruise altitudes by ice crystals; most commonly the product of jet engine exhaust contrails. It is far less commonly evidenced by the aerodynamic condensation of water vapor (humidity).

In the last few 9-11 video clips of the second aircraft hitting the WTC, a seeming “pod” is seen under the right wing-root. Detailed examination of those clips shows that the “pod” grows – but leaves vapor “wisps.” In concert, the “pod” is seen as the aircraft is maneuvered, aerodynamically creating the condensation dynamics for the wake vortex to be witnessed/recorded.

The same effect is occasionally seen during the takeoff of a commercial jet; as the aircraft rotates, during the takeoff – in the presence of high humidity or fog. The effect evidences the real-time aerodynamic “lift” airflow. Again, as the aircraft is maneuvered.

What few qualified pilots appreciate is that the compounded curves of jet transport wing-roots effect the greatest localized magnitude for the “Bernoulli effect,” the ‘stuff’ of aerodynamic “lift;” aka, pressure differential. Thus, the appearance of the apparent “pod” is not an arbitrary location.

The “pod,” ironically serves your position – though probably not to your pleasure.

Please be advised that my aviation credentials are factual; not “alleged.” Comparably, your bullshit “no-planes” assertions are factual; not “alleged.”

The WTC “no-planes” issue has been competently debunked from early on. Only ignoramuses, fools, idiots and disinformationists go there.

If you’re truly interested in 9-11 “no-planes” facts; look to the 9-11 Pentagon and Shanksville. Those locations offer some of the most powerful truth to argue “inside-job.” The same WTC “no-planes” ignoramuses, fools, idiots and disinformationists won’t or can’t go there – for obvious reasons.

If you need or want a competent and detailed account of 9-11, please pack a big lunch and see:

“9-11 and the Truth”

Please pardon the ‘pulled’ graphics, the ‘official’ powers have their proverbial “vays.” More and more, we’re seeing the onset of Next-Generation Nazism; don’t you think?

Titorite, if you’re factually interested in pertinent 9-11 facts, I’ve opened a major door for you. As due and timely notice, pass the opportunity at your own peril. You’re on the verge of becoming everyday automatic “attack sport;” as are any of your seeming supporters. If you ask any of the 4-um "old timers," you'll discover that I'm the last person that you want to cross swords with; directly or indirectly. Or, if you're an 'old' disinformationist who has dealt with me before (under a different moniker); you already know that.


SKYDRIFTER  posted on  2013-05-12   16:25:41 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#142. To: FormerLurker, titorite, PSUSA2 (#128)

It is formed BEHIND the plane, but does NOT follow it with its own motion.

Relative to this discussion, you're totally correct. Any pertinent/significant volume of following "inertial" airflow would possess a "compression" effect; which would diminish such as "wake vortex."

The only possible example of following "inertial" airflow which comes to my mind is radical windshear, requiring something on the order of a major thunderstorm or tornado.

A fast moving aircraft would have a certain magnitude of "bow wave;" but it wouldn't have any significant or pertinent role worth mentioning in titorite's scenario.

Titorite is voluntarily and desperately leaning on the tip of his own sword.

SKYDRIFTER  posted on  2013-05-12   17:02:11 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#143. To: SKYDRIFTER (#142)

Their beliefs get in the way of the facts.

That's not unusual. I've done it. So has everyone else.

------------------------------------------

Can you demonstrate a single instance in history where incursion by niggers blacks has resulted in excellence, prosperity, or improvement owing to their presence, inventiveness, or disposition?

PSUSA2  posted on  2013-05-12   17:07:32 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#144. To: PSUSA2 (#143)

Their beliefs get in the way of the facts.

That's not unusual. I've done it. So has everyone else.

No no no Letting your faith blind you to the facts IS unusual.

One should never allow their faith to make liars of themselves.

______________________________________

Suspect all media / resist bad propaganda/Learn NLP everyday everyway ;) (It's a more positive message)

titorite  posted on  2013-05-12   17:14:33 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#145. To: titorite (#144)

I disagree.

If what you're saying was true, the 3 abrahamic faiths would have died many centuries ago.

Faith is what blinds.

------------------------------------------

Can you demonstrate a single instance in history where incursion by niggers blacks has resulted in excellence, prosperity, or improvement owing to their presence, inventiveness, or disposition?

PSUSA2  posted on  2013-05-12   17:27:30 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#146. To: SKYDRIFTER (#141)

Titorite, ...... You’re on the verge of becoming everyday automatic “attack sport;” as are any of your seeming supporters...... If you ask any of the 4-um "old timers," you'll discover that I'm the last person that you want to cross swords with; directly or indirectly. (SIC)Or, if you're an 'old' disinformationist who has dealt with me before (under a different moniker); you already know that.

I think Pusa has known me longer then he has had a 2 in his name and darn sure longer than you have been a member here Skydrifter.

I think calling me a disinformation agent is pretty fucking stupid when you can call me or text me. When people here know me.

I think calling me "attack sport" is indicative of your true intent here.

I don't have any "supporters" here. I have friends here.

I hope you leave my friends the hell alone regardless of your reasons you might make up for fucking with them. My friends are not to be fucked with.

You wanna think differently , thats fine. Lord knows Pusa Thinks differently... as do others.

Threats to attack me or my friends is total bullshit. I might make a bunch of quips and sarcastic remarks from time to time however you won't find me resorting to empty petty threats ...it is beneath me. So please , do not attack. It ain't welcome.

______________________________________

Suspect all media / resist bad propaganda/Learn NLP everyday everyway ;) (It's a more positive message)

titorite  posted on  2013-05-12   17:30:38 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#147. To: PSUSA2 (#145)

I disagree.

If what you're saying was true, the 3 abrahamic faiths would have died many centuries ago.

Faith is what blinds.

Well I think christianity is doing a great job and kicking the ass outta the other two abrhamic faiths.... and is it fair to call the cult of the jews a faith?

I mean honestly , they practice ritual sacrifice... they suck babys off, fuck them. I ain't calling no jew faith faithful. Thats a fucking cult...

And Islam.... IDK... I ain't to fond of their blood sacrifices.

I don't read the xtians doing much of the same when it comes to the extreme... the mormons might fuck it all up with multiple underage wives ... but at least they wait for the babys to learn potty control.....

Alas... faith... how screwy.

No, when it comes to facts , the facts should be stuck with. let the religious keep to the faith.

______________________________________

Suspect all media / resist bad propaganda/Learn NLP everyday everyway ;) (It's a more positive message)

titorite  posted on  2013-05-12   17:35:24 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#148. To: FormerLurker (#128)

It is formed BEHIND the plane, but does NOT follow it with its own motion.

See now that is why you should not listen to this man... he has no fucking clue what he is talking about... Pusa I think you already know the votices follow the wings and not the plane...

AND

I think you know that the effect can linger... and that it follows the plane with its own momentum once created.

And what former lurker suggests their violates that laws of motion.

______________________________________

Suspect all media / resist bad propaganda/Learn NLP everyday everyway ;) (It's a more positive message)

titorite  posted on  2013-05-12   17:38:01 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#149. To: titorite (#147)

No, when it comes to facts , the facts should be stuck with. let the religious keep to the faith.

Just so they keep it far away from me, then live and let live.

But they don't do that. You know, the "great commission" etc. They love to spread their cancer. Misery loves company.

But I know I've done in the past what they do now. So I don't hate them, unless they try and interfere.

------------------------------------------

Can you demonstrate a single instance in history where incursion by niggers blacks has resulted in excellence, prosperity, or improvement owing to their presence, inventiveness, or disposition?

PSUSA2  posted on  2013-05-12   17:41:50 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#150. To: PSUSA2 (#133)

Forward past the nose of the (crashed) plane? Prove it.

OK I meantion something about this here all being provable with just any old search engine.. but here you are saying you still know all about it and that I need to "prove it".

https://www.google.com/search?q=wake+vortex+explained

I don't think you really understand yet. These vortixes are miles long.

Again , these vortices can be miles long.

The plane is not 1 miles long.

The vortex a plane creates can be multiple miles long.

Should the plane slam into a wall the miles long vortics will follow the path of its creation.... into the direction of that wall.

This is not that hard to grasp.

How can you not be understanding it unless you just in gods truth , don't want to understand it?

______________________________________

Suspect all media / resist bad propaganda/Learn NLP everyday everyway ;) (It's a more positive message)

titorite  posted on  2013-05-12   17:48:00 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#151. To: All (#150)

LOL mind boggling

______________________________________

Suspect all media / resist bad propaganda/Learn NLP everyday everyway ;) (It's a more positive message)

titorite  posted on  2013-05-12   17:49:25 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#152. To: titorite, SKYDRIFTER, *9-11* (#146)

I think calling me a disinformation agent is pretty fucking stupid when you can call me or text me. When people here know me. I think calling me "attack sport" is indicative of your true intent here. I don't have any "supporters" here. I have friends here. I hope you leave my friends the hell alone regardless of your reasons you might make up for fucking with them. My friends are not to be fucked with.

Some of us have known each other for a LONG time before you showed your face on this forum.

It's clear to US that you are not interested in any sort of "truth", your only concern is to attack those who are.


"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2013-05-12   17:51:02 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#153. To: FormerLurker, PUSA2 (#152)

Some of us have known each other for a LONG time before you showed your face on this forum.

No way.

You shouldn't make a dick measuring contest outta this FL. You won't win.

ANYWAYS ,

I found a neat vid showing of the wake vortex effect here

cospilot.wordpress.com/20...ake-turbulence-explained/

And in it you can see the formation of the vortex and that once it is created it is self sustaining for a bit... lingering if you will... and should that plane crash into a wall its wake vortex will follow it into that wall.

Don't listen to the like of FL.. it does not magically appear if the plane explodes or stops suddenly.

______________________________________

Suspect all media / resist bad propaganda/Learn NLP everyday everyway ;) (It's a more positive message)

titorite  posted on  2013-05-12   17:55:45 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  



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