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9/11
See other 9/11 Articles

Title: 9 11 Fake Video Stars: The J Star Clones – Why Covert Operation’s Cointel Must Have ‘Fake’ Video and ‘No Planes’
Source: Ed Ward, MD's Blog: US Tyranny & Treason
URL Source: http://edwardmd.wordpress.com/
Published: May 5, 2013
Author: Ed Ward M.D.
Post Date: 2013-05-05 20:49:50 by Original_Intent
Keywords: planes, no-planes, 911, towers
Views: 28299
Comments: 451

9 11 Fake Video Stars: The J Star Clones – Why Covert Operation’s Cointel Must Have ‘Fake’ Video and ‘No Planes’

9 11 Fake Video Stars: The J Star Clones - Why Covert Operation's Cointel Must Have 'Fake' Video

US Government Problem: Video of the planes needed to actually fly into the WTCs are readily available to the public.

US Government Solution: Promote the Videos as ‘fake’ based on ‘pixel’ BS – This solves the ‘evidence’ problem while never noting that the planes are NOT commercial airliners – which are not structurally capable of performing the tasks and look nothing like the photographic proof that commercial airliners are ‘not in the picture’ and US Government Military Planes are ‘in the picture’. Actually, an excellent scam premise when pumped out by the covert op truth troops.

Wingtips say B 767-400ERE-10A is THE CLONE USED to fly into the WTCs – Unless someone has a version that matches the video better.

The videos show that a Boeing 767-400ER E-10A was the supposed Super-Powered’ Commercial Airliner’. (One of these all very similar clones is clearly seen – one version of these clones has the ‘swept’ back wingtips used to discredit the video as fakery by some… Boeing 767-400ER E-10A) All early videos show the pod and the swept back wing – Recently, I’ve seen newer posts of truth videos in which the planes have neither.

Something that is fake can prove nothing, except that it is fake. It can not prove whether, how, or even if an actual event happened or not. Of course for this premise of ‘fake’ video proving anything one must also believe that during planning…

Someone says, since the plan is to use hijacked airliners, “Hey, let’s not use real planes. Let’s truck the plane parts in, crews to lay them out, people to say they saw planes, etc, et al, and just make some fake videos of planes going into the towers. Now, when we make these fake videos, instead of photoshopping in a commercial airliner with windows, we’ll photoshop in the plane needed to actually do it. Everybody high fives and says, ‘yeah, it’s just our lives on the line for treason.’ ”

Next day, the moron is no longer a threat… most likely scenario, taken out by their own family out of fear they’d all be taken out. It’s ludicrous on multiple levels.. Not just one.

The Ivy Flats Video, the testing of the first micro nuke, the Davy Crockett, is a perfect example of a camera that simply is too slow. Sure, cameras are a lot faster now, so have the travel speeds. They capture erratic images AT BEST when velocity exceeds capture speed images/PIXELS distort. Fact as clearly seen on the Ivy Flats video as soldiers move off train watch what happens to their legs. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nv_q8q6Z9_I

Fake video is only important if one NEEDS to disprove video evidence that a SUPER POWERED IRREGULAR SHAPED, NON WINDOWED ‘COMMERCIAL AIRLINER’ FLEW INTO THE WTCS – INDIRECTLY, without drawing attention to the fact a military aircraft flew into the WTCs. It’s still being done today by so called ‘truthers’. Did the ‘truther orgs’ say? The US government has been caught using its own planes to destroy the WTCs? No everything was silent and then came the need for the ‘fake video’ call.

No Windows in Flight 175 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jRC4lCQuBmc&feature=related

Evaluation of Video Footage – for WTC comparisons…

http://911review.org/Wiki/Wtc2PlanePod.shtml

Photo: Boeing N256BA – E-10 MC2A http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3040/2351680318_dcaff7147e_z.jpg?zz=1

Related photos: http://www.spyflight.co.uk/767%20mc2a.htm

There are additional photos in original article ’9 11 Fake Video Stars: The JSTAR Clones. Why Covert Ops Must Have Fake Video 9-11 Fake Video Stars – The JSTAR Clones 10-1-10 Note, the little blue decal up front – one of the WTC witnesses claims to have seen one on the ‘plane that flew into..) BTW, eye witness testimony – the LEAST valuable information WITHOUT additional evidence. http://www.rense.com/general92/911fk.htm

F-4 Phantom at 500 mph into a solid concrete wall http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AB4IEa7jTJw

(Bullets Into Steel – Under pressure and friction metals tend to liquefy) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QfFoMyMoiX4

The wall was 12 ft thick, THE PLANE WAS NOT FILLED WITH WATER, but the tanks were to simulate fuel.

“But there was a test similar to what is described above. In 1988, an
unmanned F-4 Phantom, ballasted with water and mounted on rails, was
“flown” into a concrete wall at 480 MPH. As reported, the plane crumpled,
and penetrated only about 2 inches of concrete. A very impressive test -
except it wasn’t meant to be a test of nuclear reactor safety. The wall
the F-4 crashed into was not a simulation of a nuclear plant’s wall. It
was a 12-foot-thick wall mounted on an air cushion. The test was designed to study impact forces by measuring how far the impact would push the wall. Breaking through the concrete was the last thing any of the involved scientists wanted to achieve. Furthermore, the F-4 was ballasted with water to give it the same weight as a plane fully loaded with fuel, and its final weight was 42,000 pounds. Needless to say, crashing a 412,000 pound 767 loaded with fuel into a fixed wall would have slightly different results.

Because according to a 1982 study by the Argonne National Laboratory in Illinois – a study which was conducted by request of the DOE and the NRC – the explosion from a 707 crashing into a containment dome at 466 MPH would probably overwhelm the reactor’s shielding. Note – that’s a 707, which weighs 336,000 pounds. In 1982 those were big jets. But we’ve “advanced” considerably since then. The 767s that were flown into the World Trade Center weighed 80,000 pounds more than that and carried a lot more fuel.

Other studies, again conducted for the NRC at the Lawrence Livermore
National Laboratory, found that a 125,000 pound jet had a 32 % chance of piercing a containment building’s six-foot base and an 84 % chance of
breaking through the dome.” http://everything2.com/user/DejaMorgana/writeups/Nuclear+Power

“A key report, Sugano et al 1992, covers a rocket sled crash experiment using an F-4D Phantom jet fighter impacting into a 10 foot thick reinforced concrete block.

Sandia notes:
The purpose of the test was to determine the impact force, versus time, due to the impact, of a complete F-4 Phantom — including both engines — onto a massive, essentially rigid reinforced concrete target (3.66 meters thick). Previous tests used F-4 engines at similar speeds. The test was not intended to demonstrate the performance (survivability) of any particular type of concrete structure to aircraft impact. The impact occurred at the nominal velocity of 215 meters per second (about 480 mph). The mass of the jet fuel was simulated by water; the effects of fire following such a collision was not a part of the test. The test established that the major impact force was from the engines. The test was performed by Sandia National Laboratories under terms of a contract with the Muto Institute of Structural Mechanics, Inc., of Tokyo.

With very minimal damage to the concrete target block, the plane and its engines were easily converted into small chunks of metal confetti and shrapnel at the physical interface of the two impact objects. Upon initial impact, the follow-on rear portions of the plane yet to make contact retained their shape integrity until their respective impact. (This seriously contradicts claims by Jean-Pierre Desmoulins that the wings of a 757 would have folded forward, as well as claims in the popular press that the wings folded back before entering the “too-small” hole.) The resulting shear caused debris being spread out to the left, right, and rear of the impact locus, having no ability to proceed in their original vector path, having grossly failed the test of strength with the concrete block. However, the wings are wider than the concrete block, so the wingtips are sheared off whole, and they tumble forward after being cleanly separated from the aircraft.

F4 aircraft impacting a solid concrete barrier. Note that the wings and tail do not fold as the nose impacts the concrete. (source: don’t bother moved -http://www.sandia.gov/media/NRgallery00-03.htm)

Sugano (in itself) doesn’t show that a 757 hitting the Pentagon would be turned into confetti and small chunks, but it does show that an F4 was completely destroyed in arguably similar circumstances. Furthermore, it wasn’t anywhere close to an even contest between the wall and the F4. The F4 started with a speed of 215 m/sec — and the tail was still traveling at 185 m/sec when it smashed into the wall. The F4 is a very strongly build aircraft, although at 18 meters long and 19 kg, it’s about a third the length and a fifth the weight of the 757. In terms of comparing what would happen to a 757 versus what happened to the F4, it would be difficult to do an accurate calculation without detailed design information on both aircraft. In a preliminary analysis, the extra length of the 757 means that it has three times the distance to decelerate — but the 757 is also much heavier, so it’s more difficult for the crushing process to supply enough force to decelerate even as rapidly as the F4 did.” http://www.911-strike.com/missing-confetti.htm The article from the ‘pentagon disinformation unit’ counters the information from the ‘WTC no planes disinformation unit’.

Ed Ward, MD – http://edwardmd.wordpress.com/ ;
https://www.facebook.com/EdWardMD3 ; http://groups.yahoo.com/group/EdWard-MD/messages

More US Drill Death in Waco Explosion – Drill Stops for Reality, Again http://edwardmd.wordpress.com/2013/04/28/more-us-drill-death-in-waco-drill-stops-for-reality-again/

Boston Marathon: The Finish Line For US Treason. Drill Death. Everything’s In Place For Police State. by Ed Ward, MD http://edwardmd.wordpress.com/2013/04/16/boston-marathon-the-finish-line-for-us-treason-drill-death-everything-is-in-place-for-police-state-by-ed-ward-md/

Pictures: US Boston Weapon – Both ‘Explosions’ – The Secret of the Pure Fusion Weapon – Li7 – Lithium 7 http://edwardmd.wordpress.com/2013/04/19/photograph-of-boston-fireball-2nd-explosion/

Dr. Ed Ward MD, AS, BS, MD – Reporting and investigating Constitutional abuses of the US government for almost 2 decades. AS, BS in Medical Technology – Minor in Organic Chemistry and Physics, volunteer during the Viet Nam war 6 years stateside active duty ‘med tech’ ‘US Air Farce’ – a decade experience in Medical Technology. MD degree from LSU, New Orleans – 2 decades in the field of General Practice. (My) Articles are also referenced by valid experts in their field.


Poster Comment:

For you "no planers" there are other rational explanations other than the planted disinfo (to discredit questions on 911) that there were no planes.(1 image)

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#318. To: titorite (#311)

Their is no reverse in flight.

If the planes crashes the wind vortex the was following it follows it right into the crash.

That you refuse to understand that makes you ignorant!

By golly you have done it! You have proven that there were no planes hitting the towers! Bravo!

There is no reverse in flight. Fucking BRILLIANT! You did it! Congratulations! You have single-handedly saved the republic! You're a hero!

There is no reverse in flight. Wow. It was so simple, right in front of my eyes the entire time, but it took an educated person like yourself to point it out to ignorant little ol' me.

Thank you! You are a credit to the human race. I shall sing your praises until the last breath on the day I die!

------------------------------------------

Can you demonstrate a single instance in history where incursion by niggers blacks has resulted in excellence, prosperity, or improvement owing to their presence, inventiveness, or disposition?

PSUSA2  posted on  2013-05-16   11:16:01 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#319. To: PSUSA2 (#318)

Too bad he can't figure out what would happen if he were right, that planes are constantly being chased by these vortices.

It's beyond his comprehension what would happen once a plane were to slow down, that if there were a high speed stream of air (his superduper wind vortex or whatever he's currently naming them) traveling as fast as the plane HAD been traveling prior to slowing down, the vortex would catch up with the plane and flip it around like a rag doll.

But HE'S the scientist here. Yeah, JUNK SCIENTIST.


"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2013-05-16   11:34:05 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#320. To: HOUNDDAWG (#309) (Edited)

To put it another way, we don't have souls black enough to intuit just how evil the 9/11 architects really are. This would also include weapons developed in secret and used that day because we the fleeced are the enemy....

It really isn't all that complicted. Those who control world banks and governments, who wish to literally take over the world, eliminating a bunch of "useless eaters" and using the rest as slave labor, have NO qualms murdering 3000 people.

They instigated wars of profit and adventure which have killed millions and maimed more.

Many of those killed and maimed are civilians; men, women, and children who were going about their daily routine till they came upon a checkpoint manned by a bunch of trigger happy punks who have no qualms blowing their heads off for sport, or were having dinner in their home while some "brave" lad sitting in Nevada was playing with a video game type console which unfortunately controlled a Predator drone armed with Hellfire missiles.

It's not that difficult to see the evil if one opens his eyes.


"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2013-05-16   12:53:39 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#321. To: Original_Intent (#246)

To some degree the "no-planers" remind me of militant atheists. It is sort of a self righteous "how dare you believe differently" attitude.

On the order of attending to bigotry:

"I detest bigots; they should all be arrested and executed!"

SKYDRIFTER  posted on  2013-05-16   16:49:09 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#322. To: Aquila (#302)

9-11 is loaded with illogical 'stuff.' Examining the impossible and extremely improbable is the core approach to the truth.


SKYDRIFTER  posted on  2013-05-16   16:57:24 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#323. To: FormerLurker, PUSA2, SKYDRIFTER, Any other ignorant cuss I may of missed. (#319)

Too bad he can't figure out what would happen if he were right, that planes are constantly being chased by these vortices.

Do not wallow in ignorance like former lurker.

Because that is EXACTLY what happens, these Vortices's ARE constantly following planes.

That is exactly correct.

That is why planes are staggered at take off and landing.

They can not follow one another to close or else a plane will get swept up in the wake vortex.

Wallowing in ignorance begets tyranny. Educate yourself.

______________________________________

Suspect all media / resist bad propaganda/Learn NLP everyday everyway ;) (It's a more positive message)

titorite  posted on  2013-05-16   17:19:11 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#324. To: FormerLurker (#320)

have NO qualms murdering 3000 people.

You push 3000 like the jews push 6 million.

______________________________________

Suspect all media / resist bad propaganda/Learn NLP everyday everyway ;) (It's a more positive message)

titorite  posted on  2013-05-16   17:22:42 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#325. To: titorite (#323)

these Vortices's ARE constantly following planes. ... That is why planes are staggered at take off and landing. ... If the planes crashes the wind vortex the was following it follows it right into the crash.

Non sequitur

------------------------------------------

Can you demonstrate a single instance in history where incursion by niggers blacks has resulted in excellence, prosperity, or improvement owing to their presence, inventiveness, or disposition?

PSUSA2  posted on  2013-05-16   17:32:16 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#326. To: titorite (#323)

Do not wallow in ignorance like former lurker.

Because that is EXACTLY what happens, these Vortices's ARE constantly following planes.

That is exactly correct.

Are you here to prove exactly how stupid you are? Are you too lazy to even peek at the link you posted from Wiki concerning wing vortices, or to look at the one I posted for you describing what a vortex is?

Do you care at all about vortices, or are you here just to troll?

That is why planes are staggered at take off and landing.

They can not follow one another to close or else a plane will get swept up in the wake vortex.

What part of they don't chase the planes because they have no forward velocity don't you understand? Sure they exist, nobody is disputing that. They DO NOT travel forward however, and if you had any intelligence at all you'd understand why.

Wallowing in ignorance begets tyranny. Educate yourself.

You must love tyranny then.


"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2013-05-16   17:42:48 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#327. To: titorite (#324)

You push 3000 like the jews push 6 million.

Huh? Are you now saying people didn't die in those towers on 9/11? Are you going to tie 9/11 in with the Holocaust now?

You truly are a nutjob.


"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2013-05-16   17:44:48 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#328. To: HOUNDDAWG, Original_Intent (#298)

If we proceeded in an orderly manner with a proper criminal investigation the question about the planes would likely be answered before we ever reached the time of impact in the chronology of events.

You'd think, eh?


"If they can get you asking the wrong questions, they don't have to worry about answers" ~ Thomas Pynchon Gravity's Rainbow

wudidiz  posted on  2013-05-16   18:12:41 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#329. To: FormerLurker, PSUSA2, titorite (#326) (Edited)

Do you care at all about vortices, or are you here just to troll?

Do you? The real issue on that subject isn't titorite and whether he believes correctly or not about it. That's like a smoke obscurant tactic for the real question: Would the smoke from the buildings have reached the point where the vortices might still be present outside the burning buildings -- not just at the WTC but at the Pentagon too -- or would the vortex trails have dissipated/been dispersed completely by the explosions before then? If the smoke reached a point where the vortices should still be present for some minutes or however long, smoke swirl would have been noticeable, I would think.

I generally don't discuss that aspect of 9/11 investigations because that's about all I know about it, basically, other than that the jet stream over the highway at the Pentagon would likely have flipped some vehicles [in the official scenario] but didn't. I'm not posting this to discuss planes vs. no planes here with raging plane-gatekeepers. Just wanted to try and bring the vortices issue into clearer focus.

Edited for bracketed insert in paragraph 2 and spelling changes in paragraph 1.

-------

"They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC

GreyLmist  posted on  2013-05-16   18:54:59 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#330. To: GreyLmist (#329)

Do you? The real issue on that subject isn't titorite and whether he believes correctly or not about it. That's like a smoke obscurant tactic...

...Just wanted to try and bring the vortices issue into clearer focus.

I doubt he's interested in bringing anything "into clearer focus"


"If they can get you asking the wrong questions, they don't have to worry about answers" ~ Thomas Pynchon Gravity's Rainbow

wudidiz  posted on  2013-05-16   19:04:29 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#331. To: GreyLmist (#329) (Edited)

Do you? The real issue on that subject isn't titorite and whether he believes correctly or not about it. That's like a smoke obscurant tactic for the real question

He's the one who brought it up in post 1 of this thread, and he's the one who gets all sloppy rude when people try to help him out with actual info on vortices.

Would the smoke from the buildings have reached the point where the vortices might still be present outside the burning buildings -- not just at the WTC but at the Pentagon too -- or would the vortices trail have dissipated/been dispersed completely by the explosions before then?

Let's forget about the Pentagon for the purpose of this discussion, since for one there is no ACTUAL video of the aircraft striking the Pentagon in the public domain, if any exists at all.

As far as the WTC, I am not aware of any videos of the 2nd crash which display smoke in the direction of the approach, at least not immediately after the crash.

Vortices stop forming once air stops moving over the wings, and their persistance depends on many factors, some of which are temperature, air pressure, and resistance to airflow caused by the environment such as adjacent buildings. I would also think the explosive force of the fireballs would have pushed air outwards towards the vortices thus causing them to breakup.

I won't pretend to have the equations in hand to calculate how long they would have persisted, but I would logically assume that they would dissipate within several minutes at most.

But that's all besides the point GL. Not only would it be virtually impossible to produce an ongoing live action video with inserted fabricated events in real time, but the people on the ground and watching it unfold live would have noticed that what they were seeing was not what was being broadcast around the world as actual live footage.


"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2013-05-16   19:15:20 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#332. To: GreyLmist (#329)

I'm not posting this to discuss planes vs. no planes here with raging plane-gatekeepers.

I'm not a "raging plane gatekeeper". The only ones raging are some of the the no-planers.

All I am saying is that those that claim no planes hit the towers, they better explain it better than has been "explained" here on this thread. There have been NO explanations of this; just assertions. Assertions without proof are nothing but crap.

Watch the vids of the 2nd impact. The flame and debris exited from the side of the building opposite the impact. So, how would any vortex affect this? The only way it could is if the vortex carried clear thru the building and out the other side where the smoke and flames were located. This idea seems to be a key point in the no-planers ideas on what happened. It has been stated here that the vortices continue to travel FORWARD independently of a planes motion (or the lack of motion). I call bullshit on this. This requires proof, not assertions.

------------------------------------------

Can you demonstrate a single instance in history where incursion by niggers blacks has resulted in excellence, prosperity, or improvement owing to their presence, inventiveness, or disposition?

PSUSA2  posted on  2013-05-16   19:16:00 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#333. To: wudidiz (#330)

I doubt he's interested in bringing anything "into clearer focus"

Well troll, it's most obvious you aren't interested in clearing anything up, rather you are here to obscure things and muddy the waters.


"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2013-05-16   19:16:56 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#334. To: FormerLurker, wudidiz (#333)

All you did there was prove his suspicion right, FL. Try again.

-------

"They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC

GreyLmist  posted on  2013-05-16   19:21:15 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#335. To: GreyLmist, PSUSA2, RickyJ (#334) (Edited)

All you did there was prove his suspicion right, FL. Try again.

So now you're resorting to your tried and proven technique of attacking a person's character rather than address the logical and factual response I just replied to you with, right?

As far as wud, are you his wife? I think he can speak for himself here, and you need not chastise me for responding to him in kind after his rather snarky comment towards me.

You and your crew really do behave like drama queens, crying like rape victims after kicking someone in the nuts for no reason.


"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2013-05-16   19:28:33 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#336. To: PSUSA2 (#332)

The only ones raging are some of the the no-planers.

I disagree.

All I am saying is that those that claim no planes hit the towers, they better explain it better than has been "explained" here on this thread. There have been NO explanations of this; just assertions. Assertions without proof are nothing but crap.

Rather than clutter the board with a rearguing from the beginning, there are several long 4um threads on 9/11, soon before the Sandy Hook controversy, that have much explanatory info and evidence presented by no planers. One is a video playlist by me titled "9-11 Anthology - No Planes and Media Fakery Research +", if you'd rather not do a lot of tedious reading.

Watch the vids of the 2nd impact. The flame and debris exited from the side of the building opposite the impact. So, how would any vortex affect this? The only way it could is if the vortex carried clear thru the building and out the other side where the smoke and flames were located. This idea seems to be a key point in the no-planers ideas on what happened. It has been stated here that the vortices continue to travel FORWARD independently of a planes motion (or the lack of motion). I call bullshit on this. This requires proof, not assertions.

The vortices aspect is not a key point with most no planers, afaik. I'm not concerned about whether or not they travel forward. My concern is whether or not the smoke reached the point where traces of the vortices might still be lingering outside of the buildings.

-------

"They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC

GreyLmist  posted on  2013-05-16   19:43:13 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#337. To: FormerLurker (#335)

You and your crew really do behave like drama queens, crying like rape victims after kicking someone in the nuts for no reason.

Yep. They love drama. And where there is no drama, they'll create it out of nothing. They behave like little girls.

Both of us are focused on facts. They are focused on I don't know what.

------------------------------------------

Can you demonstrate a single instance in history where incursion by niggers blacks has resulted in excellence, prosperity, or improvement owing to their presence, inventiveness, or disposition?

PSUSA2  posted on  2013-05-16   19:45:51 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#338. To: GreyLmist (#336)

My concern is whether or not the smoke reached the point where traces of the vortices might still be lingering outside of the buildings.

Did it?

I dont care about other threads. They're probably as screwed up as this one is. It shouldn't take that much effort to present your case. Or someone present their case, not just you. Although you seem to be a little more reasonable than a couple of others here.

------------------------------------------

Can you demonstrate a single instance in history where incursion by niggers blacks has resulted in excellence, prosperity, or improvement owing to their presence, inventiveness, or disposition?

PSUSA2  posted on  2013-05-16   19:50:05 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#339. To: FormerLurker (#335)

Strike two, FL. Three strikes and I think we can be sure that you're not really interested in clearer focus on the vortices issue. No, I am not his wife. Why don't you and your crew quit degrading no planers if you don't want to be critically critiqued? Why do you seem to think that only planers can converse together permissably about their opponents and as derogatorily as they want to? Like I noted at Post #113: The point that personalized attacks were blatantly inserted into this thread was your post at #21, FL.

-------

"They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC

GreyLmist  posted on  2013-05-16   20:15:55 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#340. To: PSUSA2 (#337)

Both of us are focused on facts. They are focused on I don't know what.

They are focused on discrediting those who disagree with the official 9/11 fairytale and who post legitimate facts and scientific proofs concerning the events of that day.

They also spew whatever is flowing out of Jim Fetzers bowels at that point in time.


"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2013-05-16   20:49:32 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#341. To: GreyLmist (#339)

Strike two, FL. Three strikes and I think we can be sure that you're not really interested in clearer focus on the vortices issue.

Wow, just wow. YOU divert the thread into mudslinging with the help of your little partner, and even AFTER I remind you that I responded to your post in a polite and factual manner, which you ignored, you continue to accuse ME of what you are yourself guilty of.

Another master of projection. I suppose that's part of what being a "no-planer" is all about isn't it.

Have a "partner" sling mud or make snide comments, then when said person is called on his behavior, you act the part of the victim, get all indignant, and claim that PROVES that you were right all along.

No wonder people view "no-planers" as a bunch of whackjobs, it's because you ARE.


"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2013-05-16   20:54:22 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#342. To: GreyLmist (#339)

It's readily apparent you aren't here to "discuss" ANYTHING, you are here to act like a huge drama queen. Are you going to act like an adult, stay out of other people's affairs, and have a polite conversation, or are you just here to provoke people and sling mud?


"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2013-05-16   20:57:00 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#343. To: PSUSA2, titorite (#338)

My concern is whether or not the smoke reached the point where traces of the vortices might still be lingering outside of the buildings.

Did it?

I don't know but think that's what the real issue in question is rather than titorite.

I dont care about other threads. They're probably as screwed up as this one is. It shouldn't take that much effort to present your case. Or someone present their case, not just you. Although you seem to be a little more reasonable than a couple of others here.

I could contest who's been more unreasonable without provocation but let's not debate that. Just in this thread, I posted a half-hour video at #34 that you could view as an introduction about the No Planes issue for beginners. I noted too at #35 and elsewhere here that there is tangible evidence that alleged Flt. 11 didn't fly in New York that day. I also stated at #30 that there is evidence that alleged Flt. 77 didn't fly at the Pentagon that day. I mentioned there: unidentifiable scraps, mismatched plane parts, suspect audio and film, and conflicting testimonies. Additonally, there is other evidence about the registration numbers of alleged 9/11 planes staying activated; as well as MSM video analysis that indicates real planes weren't used. I don't know what else you think I should say or present to make a short summary of the No Planes investigation but, if all that wasn't good enough at the time or now to show sound cause for our research in that direction, what would suffice for you? Kind of makes my point that only No Planers are expected to keep starting over and over again as if others are unaware of anything about the subject in all these years beyond reflexively attacking and dismissing it.

I don't want to debate this subject further in this ambush thread but don't mind discussing it elsewhere with those whose motivations aren't defamation and such. One of my main concerns is the possibility of black marketeering in dual-use plane parts because of the alleged 9/11 planes largely disappearing in the scenarios with scant traceable evidence, if any. That and the other points I've highlighted here again are more than sufficient reasons, in my view, for No Planes research to be taken even more seriously than speculation about remote control -- or at least as seriously valid a field of 9/11 investigation as that. For now, I'll repeat what I said at #30: If there is one thing you can be completely sure of about the No Planes investigation without working through any of the evidence, it's that it is the one theory which can't possibly be planted disinfo. It exists by virtue of the fact that the alleged planes essentially vanished in the storylines

-------

"They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC

GreyLmist  posted on  2013-05-16   21:52:09 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#344. To: FormerLurker (#342)

Stay out of other people's affairs? But you sure didn't. You reached 3 strikes 2 posts ago without addressing the actual vortices issues in reply, FL. Constant repetition of your trigger-word charges, projectionist spins and deflections only shows why you can't be reasoned with on these topics.

-------

"They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC

GreyLmist  posted on  2013-05-16   22:11:55 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#345. To: GreyLmist (#343)

Just curious, what is the no plane theory as to what appears in the video in post #305 at 28:34 and in post 307 at 54:54?

These "no plane" and "yes plane" wars seem silly. No one reading this was there, we all have to interpret it differently. Maybe some of what the "planers" say is right and some of what the "no planers" say is right and it all has to be put together.

I take it both sides just want the truth in the end, why be divided and conquered?

Aquila  posted on  2013-05-16   22:23:34 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#346. To: Aquila, *9-11*, *No Planers* (#345)

what is the no plane theory as to what appears in the video in post #305 at 28:34 and in post 307 at 54:54

As I've posted before in this thread, all the videos of alleged planes on 9/11 are archived here:

killtown.911review.org/2nd-hit.html

These have been analyzed by no planers and the no plane theory is that all the videos of planes hitting a building on 9/11 are fake.


"If they can get you asking the wrong questions, they don't have to worry about answers" ~ Thomas Pynchon Gravity's Rainbow

wudidiz  posted on  2013-05-16   22:54:47 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#347. To: Aquila (#345) (Edited)

Just curious, what is the no plane theory as to what appears in the video in post #305 at 28:34 and in post 307 at 54:54?

28:34 at #305: that clip does not actually show a plane striking the building but the suggestion of a plane impact after it went behind the building and then an explosion is seen that is attributed to the plane impacting. The alleged 2nd plane strike is shown in other MSM broadcasts with different trajectories and claims of making turns but that clip depicts a level and unswerving flight path. They can't all be true just because they were MSM clips.

54:54 at #307: a plane crashing into a steel framed building is not what is shown there. What is shown is a plane gliding into a building with no damage on entrance from resistance or even slowing down. Not likely.

These "no plane" and "yes plane" wars seem silly. No one reading this was there, we all have to interpret it differently. Maybe some of what the "planers" say is right and some of what the "no planers" say is right and it all has to be put together.

I take it both sides just want the truth in the end, why be divided and conquered?

Good question that I think you should ask FL and company instead of me. It's odd, imo, that they are so hostiley divided against us since they and most people here are No Planers too of varying degrees: 25%...50%...75%...100% -- depending on how many planes they suspect weren't used that day: at the Pentagon, in Shanksville and in New York at the WTC.

If you could ask whatever planes/no planes questions you might have for me in a different thread hereafter, I'd appreciate it. Just wanted to comment here today about the vortices issue.

Edited for highlighting.

-------

"They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC

GreyLmist  posted on  2013-05-16   23:25:16 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#348. To: FormerLurker (#331) (Edited)

Me: Would the smoke from the buildings have reached the point where the vortices might still be present outside the burning buildings -- not just at the WTC but at the Pentagon too -- or would the vortices trail have dissipated/been dispersed completely by the explosions before then?

FL: Let's forget about the Pentagon for the purpose of this discussion, since for one there is no ACTUAL video of the aircraft striking the Pentagon in the public domain, if any exists at all.

Sorry, I missed this post by you at #331 and thought your first reply was at #333.

Let's not forget about the Pentagon in the vortices discussions because the official conspiracy theory is that a plane flew into it, regardless of opinions that something else (like a missile -- not a Boeing) was shown in the reported parking lot camera frames.

FL: As far as the WTC, I am not aware of any videos of the 2nd crash which display smoke in the direction of the approach, at least not immediately after the crash.

Would be odd, imo, if there was no smoke displayed as exiting the building, in the direction of the approach, soon after the alleged 2nd crash.

FL: Vortices stop forming once air stops moving over the wings, and their persistance depends on many factors, some of which are temperature, air pressure, and resistance to airflow caused by the environment such as adjacent buildings. I would also think the explosive force of the fireballs would have pushed air outwards towards the vortices thus causing them to breakup.

Most of the explosive force was inside the buildings, according to the official stories, so I would think there might still be some vortices lingering in the nearby areas.

FL: I won't pretend to have the equations in hand to calculate how long they would have persisted, but I would logically assume that they would dissipate within several minutes at most.

I think what is needed are measurements of time and distance as the smoke moves in the direction of the alleged flight paths where vortices might be expected to still be present for some minutes after the purported explosions that were largely within the buildings.

FL: But that's all besides the point GL.

No, that's exactly the point, FL. This is beside the point:

FL: Not only would it be virtually impossible to produce an ongoing live action video with inserted fabricated events in real time, but the people on the ground and watching it unfold live would have noticed that what they were seeing was not what was being broadcast around the world as actual live footage.

Posted in another thread: EXERCISES INCLUDED MOCK TV NEWS REPORTS

Edited for formatting.

-------

"They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC

GreyLmist  posted on  2013-05-17   0:30:29 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#349. To: wudidiz (#346) (Edited)

These have been analyzed by no planers and the no plane theory is that all the videos of planes hitting a building on 9/11 are fake.

Really, you don't use logic, you just look at videos edited after the fact and say, NO PLANES! LOL! Please, the disinfo agents WANT you to believe such nonsense. Too many witnesses saw the planes for the government to have any chance to try to pull a stunt like this, and it makes no sense since it would have been so easy for them to make a plane hit its target. No need to fake anything, the real thing is always better anyway.

God is always good!

RickyJ  posted on  2013-05-17   0:38:14 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#350. To: PSUSA2 (#325)

Non sequitur

Like hell, you just don't like the truth in front of your face so you'd rather believe some bullshit lie FL is peddling.

Honestly, you know a bit about trucking yeah?

You know a bit about nascar and drafting too right?

And it is that lead wind pulling the car behind it that extra 20% faster... that is a wake.

http://www.howstuffworks.com/auto-racing/nascar/nascar-basics/nascar-drafting.htm

Now I suspect you know all this and that if you weren't so hell bent on proving others wrong to the point of ignoring what they say ,you might not even be here. Since you are here please please please

POINT OUT THE EVIDENCE OF WAKE VORTEX IN 911

If it is there and I am wrong and you all are right then you can point it out to me in the resulting fire ball.

Where is it?

Point it out to me.

______________________________________

Suspect all media / resist bad propaganda/Learn NLP everyday everyway ;) (It's a more positive message)

titorite  posted on  2013-05-17   0:41:36 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#351. To: SilverStorm (#313)

That is awfully rude.

It much ruder to keep repeating a lie and then defend a liar. Are you a liar too?

God is always good!

RickyJ  posted on  2013-05-17   0:42:49 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#352. To: titorite (#350)

POINT OUT THE EVIDENCE OF WAKE VORTEX IN 911

It is behind the plane as you have been told numerous times, but you just don't listen! Damn dude, give it a rest already!

God is always good!

RickyJ  posted on  2013-05-17   0:45:02 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#353. To: RickyJ (#349)

IF you are going to argue this RickyJ do so honestly with out the attitude. Be better than me. Strive to be as civil as GreyLmist.

And ask yourself why is FL so freaking vile to GreyLmist when she has been nothing but the height of civil.

We can disagree peacefully. She proves that. But lurker... He is vile to her...

just vile.

Their is no call for it and it disgusting on his part. I am uncivil to those that are not civil with me... But GreyL... She turns the other cheek and for her politness she has to suffer the slams and slurs of FL.

Their is no call for it.

His parents obviously need to re-educate him on morality.

It is on thing to disagree. It is quite another to do so like a jew.

Yall aint jews.

We aint palistinians.

Quit yalls fucking shit and play fucking nice for christ sake... if not with me then at least,. (For the love of GOD) please play nice with those that are treating you nice.

Their is just no call for it.

______________________________________

Suspect all media / resist bad propaganda/Learn NLP everyday everyway ;) (It's a more positive message)

titorite  posted on  2013-05-17   0:48:19 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#354. To: RickyJ (#352)

It is behind the plane as you have been told numerous times, but you just don't listen! Damn dude, give it a rest already!

It goes where the planes go.

Their is no reverse in flight.

And the air it is dragging does not magically turn off !!!if the plane crashes

You can not show it to me?

Come one man. I have spent tens of thousands of hours watching and rewatching 911 vids. I am sure you have too. If the wake vortex is there then you can show it to me.

______________________________________

Suspect all media / resist bad propaganda/Learn NLP everyday everyway ;) (It's a more positive message)

titorite  posted on  2013-05-17   0:50:42 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#355. To: titorite (#353)

If you are going to keep on lying then why are you here? You don't understand physics at all and we are all laughing at you dude. You suck at this trolling.

God is always good!

RickyJ  posted on  2013-05-17   0:54:13 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#356. To: titorite (#354)

And the air it is dragging does not magically turn off !!!if the plane crashes

You dumb, dumb, it is not dragging any air. LOL!

God is always good!

RickyJ  posted on  2013-05-17   0:55:13 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#357. To: titorite (#353)

I am uncivil to those that are not civil with me... But GreyL... She turns the other cheek and for her politness she has to suffer the slams and slurs

I wear a cyber-helmet with a faceguard. :)

-------

"They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC

GreyLmist  posted on  2013-05-17   1:25:18 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#358. To: titorite, RickyJ (#354) (Edited)

And the air it is dragging does not magically turn off !!!if the plane crashes

Hey professor, the air is not dragged along for a ride, it flows OVER and UNDER the wings of the aircraft. When the two airstreams meet wake vortices are formed.

They are LEFT BEHIND the aircraft, they have no forward motion, they are simply formed by the aircraft as it passes through air.

When the plane STOPS moving through air, vortice are no longer created, and they sink and dissipate. They do NOT move forward unless the WIND is pushing them in that direction.

The wind that day was moving in the OPPOSITE direction so the WIND would have swept those vortices AWAY from the WTC.


"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2013-05-17   1:26:42 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  



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