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9/11
See other 9/11 Articles

Title: 9 11 Fake Video Stars: The J Star Clones – Why Covert Operation’s Cointel Must Have ‘Fake’ Video and ‘No Planes’
Source: Ed Ward, MD's Blog: US Tyranny & Treason
URL Source: http://edwardmd.wordpress.com/
Published: May 5, 2013
Author: Ed Ward M.D.
Post Date: 2013-05-05 20:49:50 by Original_Intent
Keywords: planes, no-planes, 911, towers
Views: 28281
Comments: 451

9 11 Fake Video Stars: The J Star Clones – Why Covert Operation’s Cointel Must Have ‘Fake’ Video and ‘No Planes’

9 11 Fake Video Stars: The J Star Clones - Why Covert Operation's Cointel Must Have 'Fake' Video

US Government Problem: Video of the planes needed to actually fly into the WTCs are readily available to the public.

US Government Solution: Promote the Videos as ‘fake’ based on ‘pixel’ BS – This solves the ‘evidence’ problem while never noting that the planes are NOT commercial airliners – which are not structurally capable of performing the tasks and look nothing like the photographic proof that commercial airliners are ‘not in the picture’ and US Government Military Planes are ‘in the picture’. Actually, an excellent scam premise when pumped out by the covert op truth troops.

Wingtips say B 767-400ERE-10A is THE CLONE USED to fly into the WTCs – Unless someone has a version that matches the video better.

The videos show that a Boeing 767-400ER E-10A was the supposed Super-Powered’ Commercial Airliner’. (One of these all very similar clones is clearly seen – one version of these clones has the ‘swept’ back wingtips used to discredit the video as fakery by some… Boeing 767-400ER E-10A) All early videos show the pod and the swept back wing – Recently, I’ve seen newer posts of truth videos in which the planes have neither.

Something that is fake can prove nothing, except that it is fake. It can not prove whether, how, or even if an actual event happened or not. Of course for this premise of ‘fake’ video proving anything one must also believe that during planning…

Someone says, since the plan is to use hijacked airliners, “Hey, let’s not use real planes. Let’s truck the plane parts in, crews to lay them out, people to say they saw planes, etc, et al, and just make some fake videos of planes going into the towers. Now, when we make these fake videos, instead of photoshopping in a commercial airliner with windows, we’ll photoshop in the plane needed to actually do it. Everybody high fives and says, ‘yeah, it’s just our lives on the line for treason.’ ”

Next day, the moron is no longer a threat… most likely scenario, taken out by their own family out of fear they’d all be taken out. It’s ludicrous on multiple levels.. Not just one.

The Ivy Flats Video, the testing of the first micro nuke, the Davy Crockett, is a perfect example of a camera that simply is too slow. Sure, cameras are a lot faster now, so have the travel speeds. They capture erratic images AT BEST when velocity exceeds capture speed images/PIXELS distort. Fact as clearly seen on the Ivy Flats video as soldiers move off train watch what happens to their legs. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nv_q8q6Z9_I

Fake video is only important if one NEEDS to disprove video evidence that a SUPER POWERED IRREGULAR SHAPED, NON WINDOWED ‘COMMERCIAL AIRLINER’ FLEW INTO THE WTCS – INDIRECTLY, without drawing attention to the fact a military aircraft flew into the WTCs. It’s still being done today by so called ‘truthers’. Did the ‘truther orgs’ say? The US government has been caught using its own planes to destroy the WTCs? No everything was silent and then came the need for the ‘fake video’ call.

No Windows in Flight 175 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jRC4lCQuBmc&feature=related

Evaluation of Video Footage – for WTC comparisons…

http://911review.org/Wiki/Wtc2PlanePod.shtml

Photo: Boeing N256BA – E-10 MC2A http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3040/2351680318_dcaff7147e_z.jpg?zz=1

Related photos: http://www.spyflight.co.uk/767%20mc2a.htm

There are additional photos in original article ’9 11 Fake Video Stars: The JSTAR Clones. Why Covert Ops Must Have Fake Video 9-11 Fake Video Stars – The JSTAR Clones 10-1-10 Note, the little blue decal up front – one of the WTC witnesses claims to have seen one on the ‘plane that flew into..) BTW, eye witness testimony – the LEAST valuable information WITHOUT additional evidence. http://www.rense.com/general92/911fk.htm

F-4 Phantom at 500 mph into a solid concrete wall http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AB4IEa7jTJw

(Bullets Into Steel – Under pressure and friction metals tend to liquefy) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QfFoMyMoiX4

The wall was 12 ft thick, THE PLANE WAS NOT FILLED WITH WATER, but the tanks were to simulate fuel.

“But there was a test similar to what is described above. In 1988, an
unmanned F-4 Phantom, ballasted with water and mounted on rails, was
“flown” into a concrete wall at 480 MPH. As reported, the plane crumpled,
and penetrated only about 2 inches of concrete. A very impressive test -
except it wasn’t meant to be a test of nuclear reactor safety. The wall
the F-4 crashed into was not a simulation of a nuclear plant’s wall. It
was a 12-foot-thick wall mounted on an air cushion. The test was designed to study impact forces by measuring how far the impact would push the wall. Breaking through the concrete was the last thing any of the involved scientists wanted to achieve. Furthermore, the F-4 was ballasted with water to give it the same weight as a plane fully loaded with fuel, and its final weight was 42,000 pounds. Needless to say, crashing a 412,000 pound 767 loaded with fuel into a fixed wall would have slightly different results.

Because according to a 1982 study by the Argonne National Laboratory in Illinois – a study which was conducted by request of the DOE and the NRC – the explosion from a 707 crashing into a containment dome at 466 MPH would probably overwhelm the reactor’s shielding. Note – that’s a 707, which weighs 336,000 pounds. In 1982 those were big jets. But we’ve “advanced” considerably since then. The 767s that were flown into the World Trade Center weighed 80,000 pounds more than that and carried a lot more fuel.

Other studies, again conducted for the NRC at the Lawrence Livermore
National Laboratory, found that a 125,000 pound jet had a 32 % chance of piercing a containment building’s six-foot base and an 84 % chance of
breaking through the dome.” http://everything2.com/user/DejaMorgana/writeups/Nuclear+Power

“A key report, Sugano et al 1992, covers a rocket sled crash experiment using an F-4D Phantom jet fighter impacting into a 10 foot thick reinforced concrete block.

Sandia notes:
The purpose of the test was to determine the impact force, versus time, due to the impact, of a complete F-4 Phantom — including both engines — onto a massive, essentially rigid reinforced concrete target (3.66 meters thick). Previous tests used F-4 engines at similar speeds. The test was not intended to demonstrate the performance (survivability) of any particular type of concrete structure to aircraft impact. The impact occurred at the nominal velocity of 215 meters per second (about 480 mph). The mass of the jet fuel was simulated by water; the effects of fire following such a collision was not a part of the test. The test established that the major impact force was from the engines. The test was performed by Sandia National Laboratories under terms of a contract with the Muto Institute of Structural Mechanics, Inc., of Tokyo.

With very minimal damage to the concrete target block, the plane and its engines were easily converted into small chunks of metal confetti and shrapnel at the physical interface of the two impact objects. Upon initial impact, the follow-on rear portions of the plane yet to make contact retained their shape integrity until their respective impact. (This seriously contradicts claims by Jean-Pierre Desmoulins that the wings of a 757 would have folded forward, as well as claims in the popular press that the wings folded back before entering the “too-small” hole.) The resulting shear caused debris being spread out to the left, right, and rear of the impact locus, having no ability to proceed in their original vector path, having grossly failed the test of strength with the concrete block. However, the wings are wider than the concrete block, so the wingtips are sheared off whole, and they tumble forward after being cleanly separated from the aircraft.

F4 aircraft impacting a solid concrete barrier. Note that the wings and tail do not fold as the nose impacts the concrete. (source: don’t bother moved -http://www.sandia.gov/media/NRgallery00-03.htm)

Sugano (in itself) doesn’t show that a 757 hitting the Pentagon would be turned into confetti and small chunks, but it does show that an F4 was completely destroyed in arguably similar circumstances. Furthermore, it wasn’t anywhere close to an even contest between the wall and the F4. The F4 started with a speed of 215 m/sec — and the tail was still traveling at 185 m/sec when it smashed into the wall. The F4 is a very strongly build aircraft, although at 18 meters long and 19 kg, it’s about a third the length and a fifth the weight of the 757. In terms of comparing what would happen to a 757 versus what happened to the F4, it would be difficult to do an accurate calculation without detailed design information on both aircraft. In a preliminary analysis, the extra length of the 757 means that it has three times the distance to decelerate — but the 757 is also much heavier, so it’s more difficult for the crushing process to supply enough force to decelerate even as rapidly as the F4 did.” http://www.911-strike.com/missing-confetti.htm The article from the ‘pentagon disinformation unit’ counters the information from the ‘WTC no planes disinformation unit’.

Ed Ward, MD – http://edwardmd.wordpress.com/ ;
https://www.facebook.com/EdWardMD3 ; http://groups.yahoo.com/group/EdWard-MD/messages

More US Drill Death in Waco Explosion – Drill Stops for Reality, Again http://edwardmd.wordpress.com/2013/04/28/more-us-drill-death-in-waco-drill-stops-for-reality-again/

Boston Marathon: The Finish Line For US Treason. Drill Death. Everything’s In Place For Police State. by Ed Ward, MD http://edwardmd.wordpress.com/2013/04/16/boston-marathon-the-finish-line-for-us-treason-drill-death-everything-is-in-place-for-police-state-by-ed-ward-md/

Pictures: US Boston Weapon – Both ‘Explosions’ – The Secret of the Pure Fusion Weapon – Li7 – Lithium 7 http://edwardmd.wordpress.com/2013/04/19/photograph-of-boston-fireball-2nd-explosion/

Dr. Ed Ward MD, AS, BS, MD – Reporting and investigating Constitutional abuses of the US government for almost 2 decades. AS, BS in Medical Technology – Minor in Organic Chemistry and Physics, volunteer during the Viet Nam war 6 years stateside active duty ‘med tech’ ‘US Air Farce’ – a decade experience in Medical Technology. MD degree from LSU, New Orleans – 2 decades in the field of General Practice. (My) Articles are also referenced by valid experts in their field.


Poster Comment:

For you "no planers" there are other rational explanations other than the planted disinfo (to discredit questions on 911) that there were no planes.(1 image)

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Begin Trace Mode for Comment # 438.

#85. To: Original_Intent (#0)

Why is this bullshit being re-hashed? The only significant official truth about 9- 11 is that two 767s hit the towers.

SKYDRIFTER  posted on  2013-05-12   0:23:05 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#86. To: SKYDRIFTER (#85)

Why is this bullshit being re-hashed? The only significant official truth about 9- 11 is that two 767s hit the towers.

Wanna explain how they did that with out any trace of wake vortex following them into and through the smoke?

Basic laws of aerodynamics.....

Ignorance begets tyranny.

titorite  posted on  2013-05-12   0:30:21 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#99. To: titorite (#86)

Wanna explain how they did that with out any trace of wake vortex following them into and through the smoke?

Show where the 2nd plane flew thru any smoke.

PSUSA2  posted on  2013-05-12   7:25:12 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#100. To: PSUSA2 (#99)

Wake vortex follows the plane Pusa.

The Planes are not the point of focus. The vortex of wind the is made by the wings splice through the air creating uneven currents of air pressure is the focus.

The wake.

Planes slam into buildings creating explosion, fire, smoke, yada yada.

Just like the wake of a boat that scuttles into land it did not just dissappear. The wake should be visible on all cameras on all film footage.

The text book "swirl" that makes all those con/chemtrails spiraled. ... It should be clearly evident in the smoke and explosions of the days event.

If you know about it then you get nagged by the question.

The more you know the less of a hold tyranny has on you.

Ignorance begets tyranny. I had to learn alot all about this. Now that I have learned stuff I share what I have learned that so that others will be free from the ignorance.

Or at least I try.

titorite  posted on  2013-05-12   7:36:04 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#101. To: titorite (#100) (Edited)

You didn't answer my question.

In order for there to be any visible "swirl" caused by wingtip vortices, it must fly thru a medium such as smoke.

Show where the 2nd plane flew thru smoke.

PSUSA2  posted on  2013-05-12   7:42:14 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#102. To: PSUSA2 (#101)

No no no....

First of all the effect is present whether smoke is there or not... Smoke does not make the vortex.

Flying does.

You know the birds that fly in a V formation... you can't see their lift but you know why they fly in a V. (Right?)

You are correct about me explaining the thing with out showing you a picture.

I can not show you a picture because their isn't one. That is my problem.

Their should be lots of examples of the wake Vortex slamming into the fireball explosion and subsequent smoke.

The fireball should swirled like an airplane crash... not bloosomed like a typical ordinance explosion.

titorite  posted on  2013-05-12   7:47:33 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#104. To: titorite (#102)

First of all the effect is present whether smoke is there or not... Smoke does not make the vortex.

Yes I know.

Are you saying that the wingtip vortices continue moving forward after the plane crashes?

It's caused by movement. When movement stops, vortices stop. Do you dispute that? It sounds like you do.

PSUSA2  posted on  2013-05-12   7:53:18 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#105. To: PSUSA2 (#104)

Ok... follow me here like the wake vortex follows a plane.

As a plane flys it is creating a votex of air current that follows it.

It crashed. No new vortex is created. The vortex behind it does not stop existing though... No it follows the direction of forward and outward as it was created until dissipation.... which can take several minutes.

The wind wake should of blasted into those explosions.

I can not show you a picture of this.

That is the problem.

titorite  posted on  2013-05-12   7:58:59 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#107. To: titorite (#105) (Edited)

It crashed. No new vortex is created. The vortex behind it does not stop existing though... No it follows the direction of forward and outward as it was created until dissipation.... which can take several minutes.

Yes. It is BEHIND the plane, not in front.

You seem to have a problem with there being no vortex effects in FRONT of the plane after it hits the towers.

Quote:

"Their should be lots of examples of the wake Vortex slamming into the fireball explosion and subsequent smoke. "

The fireball was on the other side of the building after it crashed thru it. That's on video.

Quote:

"The text book "swirl" that makes all those con/chemtrails spiraled. ... It should be clearly evident in the smoke and explosions of the days event. "

No, because that is BEHIND the plane. Why would it be visible?

PSUSA2  posted on  2013-05-12   8:13:03 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#108. To: PSUSA2 (#107)

No, because that is BEHIND the plane.

Yes behind. It follows the plane.

If the plane crashes into towers then the vortex crashes into the towers too.

Unlike the plane, the vortex effect reforms and continues spinning forward and outward ... until it dissipates.

The explosion and subsequent smoke should of shown off the wake vortex effects typical of any winged aircraft (choppers included).

The effect should be able to be pointed out in the numerous photos and videos.

Should should should.

The tyranny relies on ignorance to oppress us.

This debate may not matter in the larger scheme of things.

I was just pointing this shit out because you gave me the post nod about it several posts back. If I can not educate you proper to all the details then I guess I am not a super duper teacher. Lord knows I had to learn all this shit myself.

Regardless of any of this it is like I said with the boats... you know a wake follows a boat. That boat scuttles aground and the wake is still, flowing outwards in the water, there while your cussing lifes little events. The wake vortex should of slammed into the fireball and swirled the smoke.

And this is just the planes we are speaking too.

We have not even touched on all the dare devil helicopters that never seem to affect burning towers smoke.

titorite  posted on  2013-05-12   8:25:18 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#109. To: titorite (#108) (Edited)

Unlike the plane, the vortex effect reforms and continues spinning forward and outward ... until it dissipates.

Show me where the vortex continues forward after forward movement of the airplane stops. Dont just make the allegation. If you want to prove something, if you want to convince others, then use proof.

Since the vortex is created by movement, then when movement stops, the vortex is no longer being created. What you are saying is that the vortex continues to be created and travels forward after forward movement of the airplane stops.

PSUSA2  posted on  2013-05-12   8:41:03 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#110. To: PSUSA2 (#109) (Edited)

Show me where the vortex continues forward after forward movement of the airplane stops. Dont just make the allegation. If you want to prove something, if you want to convince others, then use proof.

Since the vortex is created by movement, then when movement stops, the vortex is no longer being created. What you are saying is that the vortex continues to be created and travels forward after forward movement of the airplane stops.

It is not an allegation Pusa.

The laws of physics are there regardless of what we say or think.

And I keep using the example of a boat wake because i am hopefull you have seen more water in your life... I am hopefull my example is relateable.

A boat speeds through the water... it makes a wake... it crashes on land and stops. The wake it made in the water continues to crash on the banks.

When a plane begins to make a wake vortex it takes awhile for the effect to dissipate.

Just like the boat.

titorite  posted on  2013-05-12   8:52:58 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#111. To: titorite (#110) (Edited)

Your boat analogy doesn't cut it.

www.grc.nasa.gov/WWW/k-12/airplane/downwash.html

www.flywestwind.com/wtc/pprograms/turbulance.htm

Boats do not have wings. Wings are necessary in order to generate wingtip vortices. Airplanes do not fly on water.

I believe you are saying these things because you believe it all sounds right to you.

PSUSA2  posted on  2013-05-12   9:06:42 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#202. To: PSUSA2 (#111)

Your boat analogy doesn't cut it.

http://www.grc.nasa.gov/WWW/k-12/airplane/downwash.html

http://www.flywestwind.com/wtc/pprograms/turbulance.htm

Boats do not have wings. Wings are necessary in order to generate wingtip vortices. Airplanes do not fly on water.

I believe you are saying these things because you believe it all sounds right to you.

Yes it does, the boat analogy is perfect for the wake can physically be seen on the surface of the water whereas it is much harder to spot it in atmosphere.

from another site that is not affiliated with the disinfo agents (USofA) ;)

Wake Vortex Turbulence Categories: Wake Vortex Turbulence | Operational Issues

Definition

Wake Vortex Turbulence is defined as turbulence which is generated by the passage of an aircraft in flight. It will be generated from the point when the nose landing gear of an aircraft leaves the ground on take off and will cease to be generated when the nose landing gear touches the ground during landing. Where another aircraft encounters such turbulence, a Wake Vortex Encounter (WVE) is said to have occurred.

Description

Potentially hazardous turbulence in the wake of an aircraft in flight is principally caused by wing tip vortices. This type of turbulence is significant because wing tip vortices decay quite slowly and can produce a significant rotational influence on an aircraft encountering them for several minutes after they have been generated. Jet Efflux and Prop Wash can also hazard the control of an aircraft both on the ground and in the air but, whilst these effects are often extreme, their effects are more short-lived.

www.skybrary.aero/index.php/Wake_Vortex_Turbulence

It is not because a plane suddenly stop flying, in this case "crashed" into a building, that the wake vortex turbulence stops automatically, it continues until the momentum it gained is lost.

Kanuck education system is flawed but not enough that we are not taught this in depth when in college attending physics class.

Sheesh you guys, Is this common sense trying to prevail over science or science used to prevail over common sense...

This is why planes cannot take off one after the other, they have to wait for the vortex to dissipate in order to take off safely when taking off on the same runway.

SilverStorm  posted on  2013-05-13   0:57:50 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#211. To: SilverStorm (#202)

It is not because a plane suddenly stop flying, in this case "crashed" into a building, that the wake vortex turbulence stops automatically, it continues until the momentum it gained is lost.

It doesn't retain forward momentum after a crash because there is no forward momentum.

Everyone with an interest in aviation knows that these vortices can last for a period of time. No one is arguing that point.

Now what does all this have to do with "no planes"?

PSUSA2  posted on  2013-05-13   7:30:17 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#212. To: PSUSA2 (#211) (Edited)

You do know that you can stand to learn more about this subject PUSA?

The vortcies created by planes do indeed have a forward momentum. If they did not they could not be created in the first place. Forward is part of the spin in regards to the vortex.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wingtip_vortices

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dra...ynamics%29#Vortex_surfing

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lifting-line_theory

just saying.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wake

That link has both water and air wakes to learn about ;)

titorite  posted on  2013-05-13   8:21:09 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#213. To: titorite (#212)

The vortcies created by planes do indeed have a forward momentum. If they did not they could not be created in the first place. Forward is part of the spin in regards to the vortex.

Proof. you are lacking proof.

Dont paste links. Anyone can do that. Post the proof and the source that vortices can overshoot a wing if a plane crashes into a building.

And what does this have to do with 9/11 PRECISELY????

I dont give a damn about vortices. That is because they have not been shown to be relevant to anything that happened on 9/11.

So, why the focus on vortices? Please answer that, clearly and concisely.

PSUSA2  posted on  2013-05-13   8:32:17 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#214. To: PSUSA2 (#213)

So, why the focus on vortices? Please answer that, clearly and concisely.

OK... I have tried explaining this to you more than once...

YOu ask for proof but then say don't post links...

So you do not want any proof? or you wants pics. maybe videos... and you don't want me to link that stuff because????

As for why they are relevant; it is because they were present even if you can not see them with the naked eye. The air behind a wing still spins even if their is no smoke to make the act of observation easier.

On 911 we had lots of smoke and two fire balls.

If the wake vortex was really there we would be able to see the evidence of it. That it is NOT present indicates the things that should of caused the wake vortexes may not be real.

Some of this information could be found in those links.

YOur saying that the vortex has no forward momentum... How much do you know about this shit PUSA? Can you regurgitate it to me? Do you know what you are looking for should you attempt to look this shit up online?

encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.co...jHPNTCKBM-BnT-omeUWx4BE-A

Just to say, the effect follows the plane.... if the plane slams into the ground then the effect follows the plane into the ground.

You act as though david copperfield is responsible for flight and that these contrails magically switch on and off.... That is not how it works.... They take alot of momentum to form in the first place and they take a while to dissipate and if the bird making em flys into something and explodes the wake will following into the explosion.

....

I don't know what to say now.... I wanna link a video but you want proof and you want it now and you want it concise and you don't want any links.....'

Seems like the end of the line.

titorite  posted on  2013-05-13   9:17:44 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#216. To: titorite (#214)

On 911 we had lots of smoke and two fire balls.

If the wake vortex was really there we would be able to see the evidence of it. That it is NOT present indicates the things that should of caused the wake vortexes may not be real.

OK now we're getting somewhere. Finally.

The only way you'd see evidence of it (vortices) is if the plane flew thru smoke/fire.

Did that (plane flying thru smoke/fire) happen? Or did it not happen?

Evidently you claim that (flying thru smoke/fire) didn't happen, thereby proving by the lack of vortices that no planes were involved. Right?

Is that what you're saying?

PSUSA2  posted on  2013-05-13   9:29:27 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#217. To: PSUSA2 (#216)

OK now we're getting somewhere. Finally.

The only way you'd see evidence of it (vortices) is if the plane flew thru smoke/fire.

Did that (plane flying thru smoke/fire) happen? Or did it not happen?

Evidently you claim that (flying thru smoke/fire) didn't happen, thereby proving by the lack of vortices that no planes were involved. Right?

Is that what you're saying?

Ok, now I am fairly certain you are just fucking with me.

You can "see" vortex in smoke, dust, thermal imaging (flicker cam), derbies...

If nothing is there it is still present.

It is an after effect of flight itself. Of the wings cutting through the air (you could educate yourself better if you were so inclined). It is present whether you can see it or not. It is a spiraling of air that follows the path of its creation.

If the plane flys south the wake vortex goes south. If the plane goes north then the wake vortex goes north.

The the plane crashes no new spiraling creation occurs.

The spiral of air already created will continue to spiral in the direction of its creation.

The spinning spiral wake of air does not instantly stop. It does not disperse immediately. It continues spinning in cycles outwards and forwards ever expanding into the entropy that is eventual dissipation.

The plane may crash but the wake vortex will live on for a moment longer. Long enough to follow through and into the fireball.

Here is a video link you don't want

www.youtube.com/watch?v=krL4fkrySZ4

Watch it or don't.... It proly doesn't matter.

What does matter is that if the wind following the plane has NO forward momentum then it can not really follow anything.

Jesus... It is like you are saying a trailer hauling liquid doesn't continue moving forward if you slam on your truck brakes.

Momentum.

It is a real thing.

titorite  posted on  2013-05-13   9:47:00 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#411. To: titorite, FormerLurker, PSUSA2 (#217) (Edited)

Here is a video link you don't want

www.youtube.com/watch? v=krL4fkrySZ4

That video shows undispersed wake vortex effects in a firey, explosive area and about zilch wake vortex effects in the fire and smoke at the WTC 1 strikezone.

Found this hint for calculating wake vortex strength at airspacemag.com: Is the Boeing 757 a threat to other airliners?

In the 1990s, engineers tested a number of airplanes to determine safe following distances. "We were really looking for ways to predict wake vortex behavior in general," Hinton says. "There's a formula: You can take the weight, the speed, and the wingspan of an airplane, and then you can predict the circulation strength from that.

Edit to add: article excerpt from Page 2 of 2.

GreyLmist  posted on  2013-05-18   3:27:05 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#412. To: GreyLmist (#411)

More blonde boxing videos eh? WTF.

Any segment of WTC footage embedded between the blonde boxing clips shows the EXIT side of the blast, not the ENTRANCE side. So what ARE you trying to prove here?

Oh wait, I get it, you don't need ACTUAL proof you just need to SAY it's proof, hoping nobody watches the clip to see what sort of BS you're posting.

FormerLurker  posted on  2013-05-18   16:21:54 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#413. To: FormerLurker, PSUSA2, titorite, wudidiz, All (#412)

More blonde boxing videos eh? WTF.

Any segment of WTC footage embedded between the blonde boxing clips shows the EXIT side of the blast, not the ENTRANCE side. So what ARE you trying to prove here?

Oh wait, I get it, you don't need ACTUAL proof you just need to SAY it's proof, hoping nobody watches the clip to see what sort of BS you're posting.

titorite's video link at #217:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=krL4fkrySZ4

Reposted by me at #411. I'm hoping everyone who watches the clip will compare the WTC 1 footage there to the Naudet footage of their choice, FL, so they can see for themselves that titorite's video does show the purported ENTRANCE side of the blast where wake vortex effects should be evident but aren't. Other anomalies in the MSM promoted, WTC 1 "strikezone" footage by the Naudet Brothers are: smoke that weirdly moves off to the left side and also downward, displaying smokeless flames -- but the topic at issue here is the lack of visible vortex in the outflow of smokey fire at the time of the alleged crash. So, what are you and PSUSA2 trying to prove here, FL, by spinning the video linked by titorite as merely blonde boxer frivolity, by misdirecting viewers to think that the entrance side of the blast is the exit side, and by ignoring the main points of discussion that I posted at #411?:

[titorite's] video shows undispersed wake vortex effects in a firey, explosive area and about zilch wake vortex effects in the fire and smoke at the WTC 1 strikezone. Found this hint for calculating wake vortex strength at airspacemag.com: Is the Boeing 757 a threat to other airliners? [Page 2 of 2]
In the 1990s, engineers tested a number of airplanes to determine safe following distances. "We were really looking for ways to predict wake vortex behavior in general," Hinton says. "There's a formula: You can take the weight, the speed, and the wingspan of an airplane, and then you can predict the circulation strength from that.

GreyLmist  posted on  2013-05-19   6:35:10 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#414. To: GreyLmist (#413)

titorite's video link at #217:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=krL4fkrySZ4

Reposted by me at #411. I'm hoping everyone who watches the clip will compare the WTC 1 footage there to the Naudet footage of their choice

No one disputes that a plane flying thru smoke or fire will leave a visible vortex. None of the 9/11 planes flew THRU smoke or fire.

the Naudet footage

Did you see the plane? Did you hear the plane? If not, try this one, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YUw1Qqe1iMc

You are only concerned about what you didn't see (visible vortices), not what you did see and hear.

The only thing I may have been wrong about is when I said the flaming debris exited opposite the impact side. Or maybe I said most of it did. I don't know. I wont go back thru 400 posts to find out.

Does that matter? no.

You are relying on your understanding of wing tip vortices to prove ALL eyewitnesses and videos as frauds. That is what it all comes down to. So dont be too surprised that no one is buying what you're selling.

PSUSA2  posted on  2013-05-19   7:53:44 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#438. To: PSUSA2 (#414)

the Naudet footage

Did you see the plane? Did you hear the plane? If not, try this one, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YUw1Qqe1iMc

?? The Naudet footage is of the 1st alleged crash into the North Tower. Your cited YouTube is of the 2nd alleged crash into the South Tower. Sound effects aren't the issue. Wake vortex effects or not in the outflowing smoke and fire of the alleged impact areas is the issue. titorite's video showed that smoke and fire in an explosive area was affected in that footage by wake vortex which remained from a plane that had travelled onward, not from flying through it. Your post that said "the flaming debris exited opposite the impact side" was #122. The rest of your post is a misrepresentation of my perspectives and a mass of confusion about yours and the building that was under review. Why you'd think, under those circumstances, that anyone should buy what you're selling is...I'm not sure what to call it. I guess I'll just say: Caveat Emptor/Buyer Beware.

GreyLmist  posted on  2013-05-22   8:58:35 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


Replies to Comment # 438.

#439. To: GreyLmist (#438)

alleged crash

?

titorite's video showed that smoke and fire in an explosive area was affected in that footage by wake vortex which remained from a plane that had travelled onward, not from flying through it.

And?

Yes, there are vortices behind an airplane. No one claimed there weren't.

How can I misrepresent your perspectives when I can't even figure out what they are?

There is no intentional misrepresentation on my part. This whole thing is so disorganized that it is not possible to understand. If you believe wing tip vortices are so key to understanding the no-plane case, then why not start another topic and discuss it in a FOCUSED and logical manner?

PSUSA2  posted on  2013-05-22 09:13:04 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


End Trace Mode for Comment # 438.

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