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Title: 9 11 Fake Video Stars: The J Star Clones – Why Covert Operation’s Cointel Must Have ‘Fake’ Video and ‘No Planes’
Source: Ed Ward, MD's Blog: US Tyranny & Treason
URL Source: http://edwardmd.wordpress.com/
Published: May 5, 2013
Author: Ed Ward M.D.
Post Date: 2013-05-05 20:49:50 by Original_Intent
Keywords: planes, no-planes, 911, towers
Views: 21775
Comments: 451

9 11 Fake Video Stars: The J Star Clones – Why Covert Operation’s Cointel Must Have ‘Fake’ Video and ‘No Planes’

9 11 Fake Video Stars: The J Star Clones - Why Covert Operation's Cointel Must Have 'Fake' Video

US Government Problem: Video of the planes needed to actually fly into the WTCs are readily available to the public.

US Government Solution: Promote the Videos as ‘fake’ based on ‘pixel’ BS – This solves the ‘evidence’ problem while never noting that the planes are NOT commercial airliners – which are not structurally capable of performing the tasks and look nothing like the photographic proof that commercial airliners are ‘not in the picture’ and US Government Military Planes are ‘in the picture’. Actually, an excellent scam premise when pumped out by the covert op truth troops.

Wingtips say B 767-400ERE-10A is THE CLONE USED to fly into the WTCs – Unless someone has a version that matches the video better.

The videos show that a Boeing 767-400ER E-10A was the supposed Super-Powered’ Commercial Airliner’. (One of these all very similar clones is clearly seen – one version of these clones has the ‘swept’ back wingtips used to discredit the video as fakery by some… Boeing 767-400ER E-10A) All early videos show the pod and the swept back wing – Recently, I’ve seen newer posts of truth videos in which the planes have neither.

Something that is fake can prove nothing, except that it is fake. It can not prove whether, how, or even if an actual event happened or not. Of course for this premise of ‘fake’ video proving anything one must also believe that during planning…

Someone says, since the plan is to use hijacked airliners, “Hey, let’s not use real planes. Let’s truck the plane parts in, crews to lay them out, people to say they saw planes, etc, et al, and just make some fake videos of planes going into the towers. Now, when we make these fake videos, instead of photoshopping in a commercial airliner with windows, we’ll photoshop in the plane needed to actually do it. Everybody high fives and says, ‘yeah, it’s just our lives on the line for treason.’ ”

Next day, the moron is no longer a threat… most likely scenario, taken out by their own family out of fear they’d all be taken out. It’s ludicrous on multiple levels.. Not just one.

The Ivy Flats Video, the testing of the first micro nuke, the Davy Crockett, is a perfect example of a camera that simply is too slow. Sure, cameras are a lot faster now, so have the travel speeds. They capture erratic images AT BEST when velocity exceeds capture speed images/PIXELS distort. Fact as clearly seen on the Ivy Flats video as soldiers move off train watch what happens to their legs. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nv_q8q6Z9_I

Fake video is only important if one NEEDS to disprove video evidence that a SUPER POWERED IRREGULAR SHAPED, NON WINDOWED ‘COMMERCIAL AIRLINER’ FLEW INTO THE WTCS – INDIRECTLY, without drawing attention to the fact a military aircraft flew into the WTCs. It’s still being done today by so called ‘truthers’. Did the ‘truther orgs’ say? The US government has been caught using its own planes to destroy the WTCs? No everything was silent and then came the need for the ‘fake video’ call.

No Windows in Flight 175 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jRC4lCQuBmc&feature=related

Evaluation of Video Footage – for WTC comparisons…

http://911review.org/Wiki/Wtc2PlanePod.shtml

Photo: Boeing N256BA – E-10 MC2A http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3040/2351680318_dcaff7147e_z.jpg?zz=1

Related photos: http://www.spyflight.co.uk/767%20mc2a.htm

There are additional photos in original article ’9 11 Fake Video Stars: The JSTAR Clones. Why Covert Ops Must Have Fake Video 9-11 Fake Video Stars – The JSTAR Clones 10-1-10 Note, the little blue decal up front – one of the WTC witnesses claims to have seen one on the ‘plane that flew into..) BTW, eye witness testimony – the LEAST valuable information WITHOUT additional evidence. http://www.rense.com/general92/911fk.htm

F-4 Phantom at 500 mph into a solid concrete wall http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AB4IEa7jTJw

(Bullets Into Steel – Under pressure and friction metals tend to liquefy) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QfFoMyMoiX4

The wall was 12 ft thick, THE PLANE WAS NOT FILLED WITH WATER, but the tanks were to simulate fuel.

“But there was a test similar to what is described above. In 1988, an
unmanned F-4 Phantom, ballasted with water and mounted on rails, was
“flown” into a concrete wall at 480 MPH. As reported, the plane crumpled,
and penetrated only about 2 inches of concrete. A very impressive test -
except it wasn’t meant to be a test of nuclear reactor safety. The wall
the F-4 crashed into was not a simulation of a nuclear plant’s wall. It
was a 12-foot-thick wall mounted on an air cushion. The test was designed to study impact forces by measuring how far the impact would push the wall. Breaking through the concrete was the last thing any of the involved scientists wanted to achieve. Furthermore, the F-4 was ballasted with water to give it the same weight as a plane fully loaded with fuel, and its final weight was 42,000 pounds. Needless to say, crashing a 412,000 pound 767 loaded with fuel into a fixed wall would have slightly different results.

Because according to a 1982 study by the Argonne National Laboratory in Illinois – a study which was conducted by request of the DOE and the NRC – the explosion from a 707 crashing into a containment dome at 466 MPH would probably overwhelm the reactor’s shielding. Note – that’s a 707, which weighs 336,000 pounds. In 1982 those were big jets. But we’ve “advanced” considerably since then. The 767s that were flown into the World Trade Center weighed 80,000 pounds more than that and carried a lot more fuel.

Other studies, again conducted for the NRC at the Lawrence Livermore
National Laboratory, found that a 125,000 pound jet had a 32 % chance of piercing a containment building’s six-foot base and an 84 % chance of
breaking through the dome.” http://everything2.com/user/DejaMorgana/writeups/Nuclear+Power

“A key report, Sugano et al 1992, covers a rocket sled crash experiment using an F-4D Phantom jet fighter impacting into a 10 foot thick reinforced concrete block.

Sandia notes:
The purpose of the test was to determine the impact force, versus time, due to the impact, of a complete F-4 Phantom — including both engines — onto a massive, essentially rigid reinforced concrete target (3.66 meters thick). Previous tests used F-4 engines at similar speeds. The test was not intended to demonstrate the performance (survivability) of any particular type of concrete structure to aircraft impact. The impact occurred at the nominal velocity of 215 meters per second (about 480 mph). The mass of the jet fuel was simulated by water; the effects of fire following such a collision was not a part of the test. The test established that the major impact force was from the engines. The test was performed by Sandia National Laboratories under terms of a contract with the Muto Institute of Structural Mechanics, Inc., of Tokyo.

With very minimal damage to the concrete target block, the plane and its engines were easily converted into small chunks of metal confetti and shrapnel at the physical interface of the two impact objects. Upon initial impact, the follow-on rear portions of the plane yet to make contact retained their shape integrity until their respective impact. (This seriously contradicts claims by Jean-Pierre Desmoulins that the wings of a 757 would have folded forward, as well as claims in the popular press that the wings folded back before entering the “too-small” hole.) The resulting shear caused debris being spread out to the left, right, and rear of the impact locus, having no ability to proceed in their original vector path, having grossly failed the test of strength with the concrete block. However, the wings are wider than the concrete block, so the wingtips are sheared off whole, and they tumble forward after being cleanly separated from the aircraft.

F4 aircraft impacting a solid concrete barrier. Note that the wings and tail do not fold as the nose impacts the concrete. (source: don’t bother moved -http://www.sandia.gov/media/NRgallery00-03.htm)

Sugano (in itself) doesn’t show that a 757 hitting the Pentagon would be turned into confetti and small chunks, but it does show that an F4 was completely destroyed in arguably similar circumstances. Furthermore, it wasn’t anywhere close to an even contest between the wall and the F4. The F4 started with a speed of 215 m/sec — and the tail was still traveling at 185 m/sec when it smashed into the wall. The F4 is a very strongly build aircraft, although at 18 meters long and 19 kg, it’s about a third the length and a fifth the weight of the 757. In terms of comparing what would happen to a 757 versus what happened to the F4, it would be difficult to do an accurate calculation without detailed design information on both aircraft. In a preliminary analysis, the extra length of the 757 means that it has three times the distance to decelerate — but the 757 is also much heavier, so it’s more difficult for the crushing process to supply enough force to decelerate even as rapidly as the F4 did.” http://www.911-strike.com/missing-confetti.htm The article from the ‘pentagon disinformation unit’ counters the information from the ‘WTC no planes disinformation unit’.

Ed Ward, MD – http://edwardmd.wordpress.com/ ;
https://www.facebook.com/EdWardMD3 ; http://groups.yahoo.com/group/EdWard-MD/messages

More US Drill Death in Waco Explosion – Drill Stops for Reality, Again http://edwardmd.wordpress.com/2013/04/28/more-us-drill-death-in-waco-drill-stops-for-reality-again/

Boston Marathon: The Finish Line For US Treason. Drill Death. Everything’s In Place For Police State. by Ed Ward, MD http://edwardmd.wordpress.com/2013/04/16/boston-marathon-the-finish-line-for-us-treason-drill-death-everything-is-in-place-for-police-state-by-ed-ward-md/

Pictures: US Boston Weapon – Both ‘Explosions’ – The Secret of the Pure Fusion Weapon – Li7 – Lithium 7 http://edwardmd.wordpress.com/2013/04/19/photograph-of-boston-fireball-2nd-explosion/

Dr. Ed Ward MD, AS, BS, MD – Reporting and investigating Constitutional abuses of the US government for almost 2 decades. AS, BS in Medical Technology – Minor in Organic Chemistry and Physics, volunteer during the Viet Nam war 6 years stateside active duty ‘med tech’ ‘US Air Farce’ – a decade experience in Medical Technology. MD degree from LSU, New Orleans – 2 decades in the field of General Practice. (My) Articles are also referenced by valid experts in their field.


Poster Comment:

For you "no planers" there are other rational explanations other than the planted disinfo (to discredit questions on 911) that there were no planes.(1 image)

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#1. To: Original_Intent (#0) (Edited)

like the absence of jet exhaust trails at every scene? Or the complete lack of wake vortex effect following the planes?

______________________________________

Suspect all media / resist propaganda/Learn NLP

titorite  posted on  2013-05-05   23:42:22 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#2. To: Original_Intent (#0)

Good article, OI. This is where the PTBs get hung by their own numbers.

The NTSB tracked the second plane to hit a tower at 540 mph. Passenger 767s top speed is 400 mph, and that's at their cruising altitude of 32,000 ft, where air density is much lower. At sea level, air is much denser, and requires engines 6 times more powerfull than those on a passenger 767 to achieve those speeds. Some of those ninnies didn't do they homework..

Support bacteria.

(The world needs more culture)

Obnoxicated  posted on  2013-05-06   0:17:35 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#3. To: Original_Intent (#0)

One other oddity to note: it could be an optical illusion, but in some of the photos of the second plane, it looked to me like one of the engines sets forward a little further than the other, which isn't the way a normal 767 is configured.

Support bacteria.

(The world needs more culture)

Obnoxicated  posted on  2013-05-06   0:28:05 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#4. To: Obnoxicated (#3)

That could (and I emphasize could) be an artifact created by video manipulation. The goofermunt has made multiple egregious errors on some of their psyops videos in the past (the Nick Berg "Snuff Film" comes to mind) so it is entirely within the realm of possibility that that is what you are seeing.

Perseverent Gardener
"“Believe nothing merely because you have been told it. Do not believe what your teacher tells you merely out of respect for the teacher. But whatsoever, after due examination and analysis, you find to be kind, conducive to the good, the benefit, the welfare of all beings - that doctrine believe and cling to, and take it as your guide.” ~ Gautama Siddhartha — The Buddha

Original_Intent  posted on  2013-05-06   1:12:39 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#5. To: Obnoxicated (#2)

Good article, OI. This is where the PTBs get hung by their own numbers.

The NTSB tracked the second plane to hit a tower at 540 mph. Passenger 767s top speed is 400 mph, and that's at their cruising altitude of 32,000 ft, where air density is much lower. At sea level, air is much denser, and requires engines 6 times more powerfull than those on a passenger 767 to achieve those speeds. Some of those ninnies didn't do they homework..

Thanks. That could explain one of the reasons that the Air Traffic Controllers who tracked the planes are still under a Gag Order 12 years after the fact.

Perseverent Gardener
"“Believe nothing merely because you have been told it. Do not believe what your teacher tells you merely out of respect for the teacher. But whatsoever, after due examination and analysis, you find to be kind, conducive to the good, the benefit, the welfare of all beings - that doctrine believe and cling to, and take it as your guide.” ~ Gautama Siddhartha — The Buddha

Original_Intent  posted on  2013-05-06   1:14:44 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#6. To: Original_Intent (#0)

It's quite obvious SOME sort of aircraft resembling the purported hijacked airliners struck the WTC towers.

With what I've tracked down, they were most likely 767 tankers, which were oddly very accessible to Dov Zakheim...

From Dov Zakheim and the 9/11 Conspiracy

The Boeing lease deal involved the replacement of the aging KC-135 tanker fleet with these smaller, more efficient Boeing 767s that were to be leased by Dov Zakheim’s group. The planes were to be refitted with refueling equipment, including lines and nozzle assemblies.


"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2013-05-06   1:57:31 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#7. To: FormerLurker (#6)

I definitely agree that some sort of planes hit the two towers. The real question is what kind. They were approximately the same size as a 767. I suspect, but cannot prove, that they were modified aircraft specifically for this operation. However, that is inference and speculation, clearly labeled as such.

Perseverent Gardener
"“Believe nothing merely because you have been told it. Do not believe what your teacher tells you merely out of respect for the teacher. But whatsoever, after due examination and analysis, you find to be kind, conducive to the good, the benefit, the welfare of all beings - that doctrine believe and cling to, and take it as your guide.” ~ Gautama Siddhartha — The Buddha

Original_Intent  posted on  2013-05-06   2:13:57 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#8. To: Original_Intent (#7)

However, that is inference and speculation, clearly labeled as such.

Zakheim had both the motive and the opportunity.

His involvement is much more logically plausible than most other stories I've seen.


"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2013-05-06   2:16:49 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#9. To: FormerLurker (#8)

I would tend to agree. I resisted the conclusion initially but the one thing that always eats at me is the 2 trillion that disappeared on his watch AND that by pure coincidence (uh huh) the Pentagram Plane hit the one set of offices in the Pentagram that were doing an audit to trace that money. But of course that is pure coincidence. Right?

Perseverent Gardener
"“Believe nothing merely because you have been told it. Do not believe what your teacher tells you merely out of respect for the teacher. But whatsoever, after due examination and analysis, you find to be kind, conducive to the good, the benefit, the welfare of all beings - that doctrine believe and cling to, and take it as your guide.” ~ Gautama Siddhartha — The Buddha

Original_Intent  posted on  2013-05-06   2:21:08 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#10. To: Original_Intent (#9) (Edited)

But of course that is pure coincidence. Right?

That's what they would have us believe. People would do a LOT of things for 2 trillion dollars.


"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2013-05-06   2:23:12 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#11. To: Original_Intent, *9-11* (#9) (Edited)

the one thing that always eats at me is the 2 trillion that disappeared on his [Dov Zakheim's] watch

Actually, it didn't disappear on his Pentagon Comptroller watch. Contrary to popular 9/11 spin, the $2.3 trillion sum had already been reported back in March of 2000 during the Clinton administration when William J. Lynn III was the Comptroller there. Slippery accounting practices was said to be how it went missing -- through $7 trillion in "adjustments" and "adjustments to adjustments" that were made then to force an appearance of the books "balancing". Without those inane "adjustments", I suppose Clinton's "economic claim to fame" would have dissipated quite a bit. Rumsfeld's mention of that money the day before 9/11 just brought it to the public's attention again. 9/11 has been used to keep it there but as misdirection to obscure Clinton's mismanagement and suspect complicity. [Edit to add: Also, to deflect from the possible motive of Clinton admins and earlier in the targeting of Pentagon accountants on 9/11.]

This is not to say that Zakheim couldn't have had anything to do with the trillions that were unaccounted for at that time because he held various positions at the Pentagon since the Reagan era. I suspect that some of it may have gone to the British company, AMEC, and other Pentagon Renovation Project contractors. Posted much about that subject last November. The video linked at #7 here cites a March 2000 Associated Press article on the [Edit to add: missing money] issue by John M. Donnelly. This is the YouTube link for that video (9/11 Jewish State Foreknowledge & 'The Dancing Israelis'), set to start at the 28:10 mark for a Defense Daily reference on G.W. Bush's nomination of Zakheim in February 2001 and the Donnelly article in March of the previous year.

Additional references for his article are the Los Angeles Times at latimes.com: Pentagon's Finances Just Don't Add Up (March 05, 2000 | JOHN M. DONNELLY | ASSOCIATED PRESS) and the Corvallis Gazette-Times at gazettetimes.com: Pentagon's finances in disarray: Money managers make adjustments of nearly $7 trillion (March 04, 2000 By JOHN M. DONNELLY, Associated Press writer). The articles are identical until the last 5 paragraphs of the Los Angeles Times version. The Gazette-Times of Corvallis, Oregon gives more details at that point.

Edited for bracketed inserts at paragraphs 1 and 2 + punctuation and grammar at paragraph 2.

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"They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC

GreyLmist  posted on  2013-05-06   6:51:18 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#12. To: Obnoxicated, FormerLurker (#2) (Edited)

Here's what I dont understand.

Planes, no planes, what kind of planes, blah blah blah. Who cares? No one is impressed with anyones "knowledge" of construction or aeronautical engineering.

What is needed is propaganda, because propaganda is effective. Anyone care to argue that point?

The weak link to the entire fairy tale is building 7.

Attack at the weakest point.

------------------------------------------

Can you demonstrate a single instance in history where incursion by niggers blacks has resulted in excellence, prosperity, or improvement owing to their presence, inventiveness, or disposition?

PSUSA2  posted on  2013-05-06   7:41:45 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#13. To: GreyLmist (#11)

Wherever it actually went it WAS missing. And the core data remains unchanged.

The plane (or whatever it was) that hit the Pentagram came in from one direction where it could have made an easy hit but instead it made a rapid descent while going through a 270 degree turn (which according to analysis by aeronautical engineers was at or beyond the tolerances of the airframe - I believe the data is on the Pilots for 911 Truth website) to hit the Pentagram on the opposite side of its approach. It hit directly into the one spot on the Pentagram that had recently been rebuilt and hardened crashing into the offices of the people trying to trace where the missing trillions went. Dov Zakheim was in charge at the time. Whether he was a culprit or just conducting a cover-up is almost irrelevant other than it provides a motive for the selection of the impact site.

And Planes or No Planes there is more than sufficient data to show that the towers (including WTC 7 - two planes THREE towers) collapse was not due to the plane or no plane impact. The arguments over the planes are investigative masturbation.

Perseverent Gardener
"“Believe nothing merely because you have been told it. Do not believe what your teacher tells you merely out of respect for the teacher. But whatsoever, after due examination and analysis, you find to be kind, conducive to the good, the benefit, the welfare of all beings - that doctrine believe and cling to, and take it as your guide.” ~ Gautama Siddhartha — The Buddha

Original_Intent  posted on  2013-05-06   18:03:28 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#14. To: Original_Intent (#13)

The vulgarity of your last sentence is strange, since it is you who started this thread with Ward's arguments over the planes. My only other post here was to address your concern that the money went missing on Zakheim's Comptroller watch and it didn't. Whatever else his 9/11 involvement may have been as a PNAC culprit and/or cover-up conductor is a different issue. The strikezone makes him a suspect more than his remote control affiliation, which would have profited him through war even without that technology being used in the attack scenarios. I agree that the WTC destruction was not due to the alleged planes. I hope we can also agree that the Pentagon ought to be using whatever kind of unburnt paper that was flying around at the WTC that day, so as to not risk incineration of their transaction accounting records.

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"They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC

GreyLmist  posted on  2013-05-07   12:06:31 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#15. To: PSUSA2 (#12)

Who cares? No one is impressed with anyones "knowledge" of construction or aeronautical engineering.

The perpetuation of ignorance by the public school system is what brainwashed us into this tyranny.

The "WHO CARES" mentality breed into the people by their public school teachers further re-enforced by cable TV and media propaganda.

In that their is a valid point.

Propaganda works.

7 may not be the weakest link however... 911 may not be the weakest link. In this day and age of tyranny and multiple false flags... Some come apart easier than others but that their are so many shows a lack of concern by the secret elite puppet master banksters. I think they are unconcerned because they have control of our troops and that they intend on proving that real soon. And talking about building 7 or the no plane facts isn't gonna sway their jack boot asses. I may of digressed a bit there.

______________________________________

Suspect all media / resist propaganda/Learn NLP

titorite  posted on  2013-05-07   12:15:33 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#16. To: titorite (#15)

"No plane facts"?

Maybe 7 is or is not the weakest link. We can go back and forth on that all day.

my point is that some people think facts are good enough to convince others. That is a mistake. It is a mistake that governments do not make. It is a mistake that honest people make.

And by facts, I mean things that are proven, and cannot be argued against, but can only be ignored.

If I was in a discussion with someone re: false flags, I'd say something like "they expect me to believe a building collapsed on its own footprint when it wasn't even hit by so much as a piper cub." And then I'd leave it at that. Details only cloud the issue. If they want details, they can look them up themselves.

------------------------------------------

Can you demonstrate a single instance in history where incursion by niggers blacks has resulted in excellence, prosperity, or improvement owing to their presence, inventiveness, or disposition?

PSUSA2  posted on  2013-05-07   13:13:23 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#17. To: GreyLmist (#14)

The vulgarity of your last sentence is strange

Easily explained - it was not my intent to be offensive but merely to emphasize my vehemence on the point. The planes/no planes debate is a dead end as its resolution is not needed to know that the official fairy tale is complete and utter horseshit. There are plenty of verifiable solid data points which stand in direct contradiction uff der offishul fable of "19arabswhohateuscuzewearefree".

And truthfully I regard the "no planes" line to be disinformation planted to make those of us who question the cover legend look like a bunch of kooks. So, I stick to that data which can be cross checked and does not require technology which is not in the public domain. I'm not saying with utter certitude that "no planes" is wrong but merely that it is of such a low order as to be probibull disinfo.

I do think that there are indirect indications of the use of advanced weapons technology, such as a particle beam, but it is indications and I do not assert it as a proven fact but merely a possibility. Although it is one that helps to explain how the building collapses were kept confined to a relatively small area. I think, and this is inference not proven fact, that there were multiple technologies (some highly highly classified black budget stuff) to pull this off the way it was done, but I cannot prove that and therefore do not assert it as fact.

Perseverent Gardener
"“Believe nothing merely because you have been told it. Do not believe what your teacher tells you merely out of respect for the teacher. But whatsoever, after due examination and analysis, you find to be kind, conducive to the good, the benefit, the welfare of all beings - that doctrine believe and cling to, and take it as your guide.” ~ Gautama Siddhartha — The Buddha

Original_Intent  posted on  2013-05-07   13:34:46 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#18. To: Original_Intent (#17)

The planes/no planes debate is a dead end as its resolution is not needed to know that the official fairy tale is complete and utter horseshit. There are plenty of verifiable solid data points which stand in direct contradiction uff der offishul fable of "19arabswhohateuscuzewearefree".

And truthfully I regard the "no planes" line to be disinformation planted to make those of us who question the cover legend look like a bunch of kooks. So, I stick to that data which can be cross checked and does not require technology which is not in the public domain. I'm not saying with utter certitude that "no planes" is wrong but merely that it is of such a low order as to be probibull disinfo.

You at #26 of 4um Title: Right leg on, right leg off, right leg on again - 100% proof of actors at Boston Marathon:

When attackers have no evidence they rely on making personal attacks, and THAT is an indicator that you may be dealing with an actual disinformation poster.

Do you exempt the unprovoked attacks by planes-believers against No Planes researchers from that assessment, O_I? Seems so. You claim that the planes/no planes debate is a dead end and not needed but initiated it here yourself; which indicates to me that what you really want is not a truce with no more talk of the alleged planes but no backtalk from No Planers. I regard the "planes" line to be not only planted disinfo to cover for the perps but probable MKULTRA-like PsyOps with the objective of conditioning planers to devolve into Orwellian patterns of hostility, enmity, double standards and such. I think they should worry more about that than blaming us for their being viewed as kooks.

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"They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC

GreyLmist  posted on  2013-05-07   20:50:04 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#19. To: GreyLmist (#18)

You are right. I did not take the time to assemble much in the way of evidence because I chose not to take the time to document why I believe what I believe. I just do not take the theory seriously enough to spend a lot of time at it, and you are free to believe as you wish. I made a statement of my conclusion. However, I did not attack ANYONE for believing differently. You are a free individual and I respect your right to believe as you wish. However, respecting your right to believe as you wish does not require me to share your belief or even say I share it when I do not.

Now, you may not like that response, but I guess I'll have to live with that.

Perseverent Gardener
"“Believe nothing merely because you have been told it. Do not believe what your teacher tells you merely out of respect for the teacher. But whatsoever, after due examination and analysis, you find to be kind, conducive to the good, the benefit, the welfare of all beings - that doctrine believe and cling to, and take it as your guide.” ~ Gautama Siddhartha — The Buddha

Original_Intent  posted on  2013-05-07   21:00:56 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#20. To: Original_Intent, GreyLmist (#19)

Geez, the least you could do to back up your preference to the planes theory is show some evidence as to why you think planes were used. Seriously. Do you have anything at all to prove that planes were used? Anything? You take the planes theory seriously enough to (for god knows what reason... or sorry, because you don't have the time) dismiss no planes as disinfo. Okay.... let's cut the bs...

OI, get real. Either show some evidence of planes used on 9/11 or stop saying you think no planes theory is disinfo. It makes no sense. You have a moral obligation to make sense. The OI I know does.


"If they can get you asking the wrong questions, they don't have to worry about answers" ~ Thomas Pynchon Gravity's Rainbow

wudidiz  posted on  2013-05-08   0:51:41 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#21. To: wudidiz, Original_Intent, GreyLmist (#20)

Is there any reason why you've been acting like a drama queen as of late (as in the past year or so)?

You and your brethen have the burden of PROVING that all the witnesses are liars, actors, scumballs, etc. including all of the thousands of bystanders, news crews, police, EMTs, firemen, families of the hijacked aircraft's victims, airport personnel, air traffic controllers, etc. etc.

You also have the burden of proof of providing facts, not conjecture, allegations, accusations, and doctored videos, to show ANYTHING in the way of valid evidence that planes DID NOT strike the WTC towers on 9/11.

Your side has not done so, but sure scream "disinfo" like little girls when anyone disagrees with you.


"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2013-05-08   1:08:18 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#22. To: wudidiz (#20)

Relax. I have looked at the videos and remain unconvinced. I guess the other reason I don't want to argue it that much is that I am willing to admit that I could be wrong and have been unwilling to invest enough time in it to resolve it to my own satisfaction. When it first came up I had dial-up and now that I have a high speed connection I just have not gotten around to it. Too many irons in the fire - I'm busy learning French right now. I still regard it as more of a side issue though. Michael Rivero (What Really Happened), whom I do not always agree with, had a section on his website - and he is both a video effects specialist and former NASA worker. His analysis seems sound.

Perseverent Gardener
"“Believe nothing merely because you have been told it. Do not believe what your teacher tells you merely out of respect for the teacher. But whatsoever, after due examination and analysis, you find to be kind, conducive to the good, the benefit, the welfare of all beings - that doctrine believe and cling to, and take it as your guide.” ~ Gautama Siddhartha — The Buddha

Original_Intent  posted on  2013-05-08   1:12:21 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#23. To: GreyLmist (#18)

You at #26 of 4um Title: Right leg on, right leg off, right leg on again - 100% proof of actors at Boston Marathon:

Yeah, that's SO 100% true. Within your own mind you might have convinced yourself of that. The guy you are claiming changed his legs IS a real person who somebody here has verified as being a real person.

He had both his legs till they were blown off at the Boston Marathon bombing.

See what I mean? You folks don't look at facts, you rely on Internet rumors and sensationalized articles reminiscant of the Weekly World News for your info.


"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2013-05-08   1:13:38 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#24. To: Original_Intent (#22)

Relax. I have looked at the videos and remain unconvinced. I guess the other reason I don't want to argue it that much is that I am willing to admit that I could be wrong and have been unwilling to invest enough time in it to resolve it to my own satisfaction. When it first came up I had dial-up and now that I have a high speed connection I just have not gotten around to it. Too many irons in the fire - I'm busy learning French right now. I still regard it as more of a side issue though. Michael Rivero (What Really Happened), whom I do not always agree with, had a section on his website - and he is both a video effects specialist and former NASA worker. His analysis seems sound.

Okay. If and when you are willing to invest enough time in it to resolve it to your own satisfaction, I'm pretty sure you'll regard it as much less of a sideshow. Your own analysis will be best I think.


"If they can get you asking the wrong questions, they don't have to worry about answers" ~ Thomas Pynchon Gravity's Rainbow

wudidiz  posted on  2013-05-08   1:24:44 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#25. To: FormerLurker, Original_Intent (#23) (Edited)

You at #26 of 4um Title: Right leg on, right leg off, right leg on again - 100% proof of actors at Boston Marathon:

Yeah, that's SO 100% true. Within your own mind you might have convinced yourself of that. The guy you are claiming changed his legs IS a real person who somebody here has verified as being a real person.

He had both his legs till they were blown off at the Boston Marathon bombing.

See what I mean? You folks don't look at facts, you rely on Internet rumors and sensationalized articles reminiscant of the Weekly World News for your info.

Somehow you've convinced yourself that simply referencing the title of the thread "Right leg on, right leg off, right leg on again - 100% proof of actors at Boston Marathon" means something other than that I was quoting [below it] what O_I had stated at Post #26 there. Wow. That was quite a stretch, FL.

Edited for quote section formatting + bracketed insert at sentence 1 + sentence 3 expansion.

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"They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC

GreyLmist  posted on  2013-05-11   8:59:26 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#26. To: FormerLurker, wudidiz, Original_Intent (#21)

FL at #21. To: wudidiz, Original_Intent, GreyLmist (#20)

Is there any reason why you've been acting like a drama queen as of late (as in the past year or so)?

Not sure who you're talking to in that list. Why do you suppose that you haven't been asked that same question here in return?

You and your brethen have the burden of PROVING that all the witnesses are liars, actors, scumballs, etc. including all of the thousands of bystanders, news crews, police, EMTs, firemen, families of the hijacked aircraft's victims, airport personnel, air traffic controllers, etc. etc.

You also have the burden of proof of providing facts, not conjecture, allegations, accusations, and doctored videos, to show ANYTHING in the way of valid evidence that planes DID NOT strike the WTC towers on 9/11.

Your side has not done so, but sure scream "disinfo" like little girls when anyone disagrees with you.

The "disinfo" shrillness has been coming mostly from people like you, by my reckonings, so how would you describe that voluminous screeching? FYI: The burden of proof is on the official-conspiracy storytellers and their parroters. They haven't proven their case and neither have the remote control believers. Sorry to hear that you are so impervious to all of the valid evidence provided by No Planers, here and elsewhere. You should go study it some more or recuse yourself if you don't want to do that.

-------

"They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC

GreyLmist  posted on  2013-05-11   10:46:53 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#27. To: Original_Intent (#19)

However, I did not attack ANYONE for believing differently. You are a free individual and I respect your right to believe as you wish. However, respecting your right to believe as you wish does not require me to share your belief or even say I share it when I do not.

that is so well said and articulates my sentiment exactly.

i don't understand why we can't discuss and debate without derision towards one another.

christine  posted on  2013-05-11   11:21:47 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#28. To: GreyLmist (#26)

FL at #21. To: wudidiz, Original_Intent, GreyLmist (#20)

Is there any reason why you've been acting like a drama queen as of late (as in the past year or so)?

...Why do you suppose that you haven't been asked that same question here in return?

Hehehehehe

The burden of proof is on the official-conspiracy storytellers and their parroters.

In the real world it is.


"If they can get you asking the wrong questions, they don't have to worry about answers" ~ Thomas Pynchon Gravity's Rainbow

wudidiz  posted on  2013-05-11   11:45:53 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#29. To: christine (#27)

i don't understand why we can't discuss and debate without derision towards one another.

Freedom4um needs a like button ;)


"If they can get you asking the wrong questions, they don't have to worry about answers" ~ Thomas Pynchon Gravity's Rainbow

wudidiz  posted on  2013-05-11   11:48:17 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#30. To: Original_Intent (#19) (Edited)

You are right. I did not take the time to assemble much in the way of evidence because I chose not to take the time to document why I believe what I believe. I just do not take the theory seriously enough to spend a lot of time at it, and you are free to believe as you wish. I made a statement of my conclusion. However, I did not attack ANYONE for believing differently. You are a free individual and I respect your right to believe as you wish. However, respecting your right to believe as you wish does not require me to share your belief or even say I share it when I do not.

Now, you may not like that response, but I guess I'll have to live with that.

Other than the part where you said that you did not attack ANYONE for believing differently, which I have to disagree with, I like it just fine before and after that point. This is why I disagree:

[You at #17:] truthfully I regard the "no planes" line to be disinformation planted to make those of us who question the cover legend look like a bunch of kooks. So, I stick to that data which can be cross checked and does not require technology which is not in the public domain. I'm not saying with utter certitude that "no planes" is wrong but merely that it is of such a low order as to be probibull disinfo.

You might not consider that as rising to the level of a verbalized attack but I consider it, at the very least, to be a left-handed undercut. If there is one thing you can be completely sure of about the No Planes investigation without working through any of the evidence, it's that it is the one theory which can't possibly be planted disinfo. It exists by virtue of the fact that the alleged planes essentially vanished in the storylines -- other than some unidentifiable scraps, strangely mismatched parts, suspect audio and film, conflicting testimonies, and the tangible documentation that two of the storied planes never flew at all that day: 11 and 77. Suggesting military planes and missiles and remote control is not actual evidence of anything, just speculation.

Edited for spelling and punctuation + bracketed reference-link.

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"They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC

GreyLmist  posted on  2013-05-11   12:15:22 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#31. To: Original_Intent, FormerLurker (#19)

However, I did not attack ANYONE for believing differently. You are a free individual and I respect your right to believe as you wish. However, respecting your right to believe as you wish does not require me to share your belief or even say I share it when I do not.

Funny. Self-serving crap, but funny.

------------------------------------------

Can you demonstrate a single instance in history where incursion by niggers blacks has resulted in excellence, prosperity, or improvement owing to their presence, inventiveness, or disposition?

PSUSA2  posted on  2013-05-11   12:22:34 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#32. To: GreyLmist (#26)

The "disinfo" shrillness has been coming mostly from people like you, by my reckonings, so how would you describe that voluminous screeching?

Uh huh. Apparently you're oblivious to the rantings of your cohorts.

Sorry to hear that you are so impervious to all of the valid evidence provided by No Planers, here and elsewhere.

To date I have not seen one iota of valid evidence from the "no planers". I've seen after the fact doctored videos that THEY say is "proof" of video "fakery". Well yeah, but THEY are the ones who doctored it and claimed that it's authentic footage. Sure, some of it may have been picked up by a PBS station or two YEARS after the events of 9/11, but the fact remains, it is NOT authentic footage from the morning of the attacks.

That right there proves that THEY are the ones peddling pure BS for whatever agenda they're serving.


"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2013-05-11   13:09:02 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#33. To: GreyLmist (#26)

And BTW GL, I didn't overlook the fact that you skipped over the first part of my most...

You and your brethen have the burden of PROVING that all the witnesses are liars, actors, scumballs, etc. including all of the thousands of bystanders, news crews, police, EMTs, firemen, families of the hijacked aircraft's victims, airport personnel, air traffic controllers, etc. etc.

You also have the burden of proof of providing facts, not conjecture, allegations, accusations, and doctored videos, to show ANYTHING in the way of valid evidence that planes DID NOT strike the WTC towers on 9/11.


"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2013-05-11   13:13:42 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#34. To: Original_Intent, wudidiz (#24)

O_I: Relax. I have looked at the videos and remain unconvinced. I guess the other reason I don't want to argue it that much is that I am willing to admit that I could be wrong and have been unwilling to invest enough time in it to resolve it to my own satisfaction. When it first came up I had dial-up and now that I have a high speed connection I just have not gotten around to it. Too many irons in the fire - I'm busy learning French right now. I still regard it as more of a side issue though. Michael Rivero (What Really Happened), whom I do not always agree with, had a section on his website - and he is both a video effects specialist and former NASA worker. His analysis seems sound.

wudidiz: Okay. If and when you are willing to invest enough time in it to resolve it to your own satisfaction, I'm pretty sure you'll regard it as much less of a sideshow. Your own analysis will be best I think.

Rivero insists that the Pentagon was struck by a plane and deters investigations that question the usage of planes in the scenarios -- but especially there. I agree with wudidiz that your own analysis would be best because you've demonstrated some objectivity and openmindedness about it.

Everyone who once thought that the official 9/11 line was true but changed their mind about that also had to resolve it to their own satisfaction first that they had been wrong, so join the crowd. Even though some of us were convinced on that very day that the WTC buildings didn't fall due to plane impacts and fires as was said, it was some time before I questioned the planes aspect more seriously. I think it was about the time that the 5-frame drive-in movie was released by the Pentagon. Anyway, like the saying goes, when you take the step of admission to having been mistaken about something that wasn't so, then you aren't wrong anymore. You're right.

Since we've discussed Gerard Holmgren's 9/11 research before and you've presented it, too, as a source of intelligent input, I invite you to watch this 1/2 hour video by him when you have the time to view it. The audio may be better with headphones:

Gerard Holmgren @ St. Mark's Church NYC 2006 on Media Fakery 9/11

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"They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC

GreyLmist  posted on  2013-05-11   14:14:59 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#35. To: FormerLurker (#32) (Edited)

Apparently you're oblivious to the rantings of your cohorts.

The reality is that the vast bulk of disinfo charges have been emanating fiercely from your sector from the get go. Since you are obviously oblivious to even that evidence trail, I say that's yet another reason why you should recuse yourself from the debates, as is this:

To date I have not seen one iota of valid evidence from the "no planers".

There is no original network footage at the time of the first alleged plane strike in New York. The North Tower was targeted explosively first, imo, to disrupt the antennae and impede localized reports. You have chosen to dismissively ignore all available and presented evidence that analyzes footage broadcast by the MSM throughout that day showing different trajectories, improbable cookie-cutter and melting FX with no crash debris outside of the buildings, etc. As I've said, there is tangible evidence that alleged Flt. 11 didn't fly that day. I don't have to posit some alternate thesis for that. You do.

As for your next post, you must have missed where I said that the burden of proof is on the official storytellers and their parroters. Remote control/altered or swapped planes/other flying possibilities like missiles being an adjunct of that, where's your proof? The only actual evidence to date of remote control planes in the 9/11 scenarios are the toys found in the Dancing Israelis' van and it's not my job to argue with your obstinate denialism.

Edited for spelling and apostrophe correction.

-------

"They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC

GreyLmist  posted on  2013-05-11   15:22:45 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#36. To: GreyLmist (#35) (Edited)

The reality is that the vast bulk of disinfo charges have been emanating fiercely from your sector from the get go. Since you are obviously oblivious to even that evidence trail, I say that's yet another reason why you should recuse yourself from the debates, as is this:

If you'd like I can find the post where the accusations first got hurled. Upon looking up the matter quite some time ago, I pretty much saw what's going on, and it simply confirmed what I was seeing first hand...

Saboteurs Attacking The 9/11 Truth Movement: The No-WTC-Planes/Video-Fakery/Energy-Beams Disinformation Gang


"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2013-05-11   16:27:31 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#37. To: GreyLmist (#35)

There is no original network footage at the time of the first alleged plane strike in New York.

But there IS voluminous amounts of video footage of the SECOND strike.

The North Tower was targeted explosively first, imo, to disrupt the antennae and impede localized reports.

Pure conjecture. The WTC was not the only tower in the area, so it wouldn't have made a difference one way or the other.

You have chosen to dismissively ignore all available and presented evidence that analyzes footage broadcast by the MSM throughout that day showing different trajectories, improbable cookie-cutter

You have produced doctored footage from after the fact compilations. You have NOT produced ONE SINGLE SHRED of raw footage which shows anything close to what you claim.

There IS a panoramic collection of RAW video which shows that the trajectory of the aircraft was perfectly matched between all angles. Eyewitnesses watched the actual strikes first hand.

AND, say IF what you claim had ANY chance of being true, if they were able to pull off a REAL TIME event coordinated across ALL the world media simaltaneously with fabricated footage, don't you think they would have gotten the kinks out before the actual airing occured?

You give some unnamed menace who can murder 3000 people in real life yet rely on "fake footage" to "make their point" the extraordinary ability to pull off the highly improbable and defy physics while there at it, without anyone noticing in real time, yet claim they couldn't perfect the final cut before air time.

Don't you see where the logical fallicy is with that?


"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2013-05-11   16:37:02 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#38. To: GreyLmist (#35)

melting FX with no crash debris outside of the buildings, etc

Uh huh. So everyone is lying about it eh? Again you falsely claim that thousands, if not hundreds of thousands or more, couldn't tell that what they were seeing with their own eyes was NOT what was broadcast in real time around the world.

You ignore the facts which invalidate your claims, yet expect people to agree with you just because you make CLAIMS that in reality have no basis.


"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2013-05-11   16:41:09 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#39. To: GreyLmist (#35) (Edited)

As I've said, there is tangible evidence that alleged Flt. 11 didn't fly that day.

So everyone who had anything to do with flying that aircraft, from the flight crew, Boston Logan Airport staff, flight control tower, baggage handlers, gate personnel, FAA Air Traffic Control, American Airlines personnel, the victims and their families, they ALL conspired to fake an aircraft taking off from Logan just so that they could murder 3000 people by space beams, right?


"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2013-05-11   16:44:57 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#40. To: GreyLmist (#35)

As for your next post, you must have missed where I said that the burden of proof is on the official storytellers and their parroters

So if someone said fairies with boots blew the towers over with fairie dust, the burden of proof would rest with those who claim that DIDN'T happen?

Thing is you don't just disagree with the "official story" as do most other people, you claim the impossibile occured with ZERO evidence of it being true.

Then you turn around and claim it's everyone else's job to PROVE that what you say is untrue.

Nice trick, but it doesn't work that way.


"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2013-05-11   16:49:01 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#41. To: FormerLurker, Lod, Artisian, Wudidiz, GreyLmist, IRTorqued, Robin, StephenLendman, Original_Intent, RickyJ, Tartarwitz, BTPHoldings, itisalreadytolate (#33)

You and your brethen have the burden of PROVING that all the witnesses are liars, actors, scumballs, etc. including all of the thousands of bystanders, news crews, police, EMTs, firemen, families of the hijacked aircraft's victims, airport personnel, air traffic controllers, etc. etc.

You also have the burden of proof of providing facts, not conjecture, allegations, accusations, and doctored videos, to show ANYTHING in the way of valid evidence that planes DID NOT strike the WTC towers on 9/11.

Only true blue disinformation agents talk and act like this.

FL has asked for nothing less than proof of everyone on earth lying to him. The Goal can not be met. IF you even begin to get close he changes his mind and asks for different proofs.

If you want to know what a real cyber command troll looks like then we need look no further than former lurker... I know he sucked me in originally but I have seen through the counter intelligence. With most all of those whom I might suspect.... it remains suspicion. In former Lurker it is confirmed... If it were so desired,we could easily make the man the subject and plow throw the lies and cointelpro and proof of his deceptions and coercions.

I am writing this all out to say that FL does not make a good debate partner but rather a good examination subject to judge how they tyranny pushes propaganda online.

______________________________________

Suspect all media / resist bad propaganda/Learn NLP everyday everyway ;) (It's a more positive message)

titorite  posted on  2013-05-11   17:14:22 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#42. To: titorite (#41)

Only true blue disinformation agents talk and act like this.

COINTEL is your game isn't it Mr. titorite.

FL has asked for nothing less than proof of everyone on earth lying to him. The Goal can not be met. IF you even begin to get close he changes his mind and asks for different proofs.

You make the extraordinary claim that hundreds of thousands of people are LYING TO YOU, then turn it around to those questioning your claim as it being THEM who are asking you to prove the impossible. Well it's impossible because your claims ARE impossible, yet you expect everyone to believe you just because YOU said it.


"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2013-05-11   17:25:39 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#43. To: titorite, Lod, christine, Original_Intent, Katniss, Dakmar, Esso, noone2, RickyJ (#41)

If you want to know what a real cyber command troll looks like then we need look no further than former lurker

Are you not aware how YOU look to the average person, or are you too infatuated with your self to notice?


"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2013-05-11   17:27:27 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#44. To: FormerLurker (#42)

No no no you vile semite supremacist. It is not the hundreds of people that are be claimed as liars . Just you former lurker.

Just you.

You are the liar.

______________________________________

Suspect all media / resist bad propaganda/Learn NLP everyday everyway ;) (It's a more positive message)

titorite  posted on  2013-05-11   17:28:05 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#45. To: ALL (#41)

I am writing this all out to say that FL does not make a good debate partner but rather a good examination subject to judge how they tyranny pushes propaganda online.

To everyone here on 4um.

THIS is how a REAL COINTEL operative speaks and behaves. He can't win a logical argument, so instead he heaps on the scorn, lies, and inflammatory accusations, all the while trying to "fit in" with those whom he sees as influential on this forum.

If you CAN'T see that, then perhaps you should look a little harder.


"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2013-05-11   17:30:14 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#46. To: titorite (#44)

You know, once people DO find out you're working against them, and are trying to sucker them into VERY bad situations, I wouldn't want to be you.


"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2013-05-11   17:31:52 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#47. To: all (#45)

Amazing.

So many problems that are known, that no one can argue about because they are so obvious, and yet people are arguing over this crap. AND questioning others loyalty because they aren't believed because no reason was ever given to believe them and their wacky "theories".

Some people are too emotionally invested in their own beliefs. It's like a religion. Believe or burn!

------------------------------------------

Can you demonstrate a single instance in history where incursion by niggers blacks has resulted in excellence, prosperity, or improvement owing to their presence, inventiveness, or disposition?

PSUSA2  posted on  2013-05-11   17:46:51 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#48. To: PSUSA2 (#47)

For my part, it is not a mans faith that bugs me. Believe what you like, just don't make an ass out of yourself doing so. Even if one has an agenda that does not grant one the right to spam and coerce.

Now me and you Pusa, we are not the type.

OThers.....

Others gotta make up their own mind

______________________________________

Suspect all media / resist bad propaganda/Learn NLP everyday everyway ;) (It's a more positive message)

titorite  posted on  2013-05-11   18:04:30 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#49. To: anyone (#46) (Edited)

Thought better of it.....

Post 46 should be deleted for it's open nerolingustic attack upon a specific individual.

That is not how you are allowed to use NLP. It will bite you on the ass.

______________________________________

Suspect all media / resist bad propaganda/Learn NLP everyday everyway ;) (It's a more positive message)

titorite  posted on  2013-05-11   18:13:17 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#50. To: titorite (#49)

Go to the Old Testament, read Psalms and Proverbs, and learn for free what God has to say to us.

Wonderful messages for us there.

“The most dangerous man to any government is the man who is able to think things out... without regard to the prevailing superstitions and taboos. Almost inevitably he comes to the conclusion that the government he lives under is dishonest, insane, intolerable.” ~ H. L. Mencken

Lod  posted on  2013-05-11   18:26:53 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#51. To: titorite (#48)

I could argue religion all day. I could prove my case by showing them what was in their history and their own bibles. It would be a waste of time. Although I admit I like to have some fun on occasion.

But again, it is a waste of time. Even though imho it would be more beneficial for liberty if the 3 abrahamic "faiths" were destroyed.

I agree with you in that people have a right to believe as they will. Up until the point where they start infringing on my rights.

------------------------------------------

Can you demonstrate a single instance in history where incursion by niggers blacks has resulted in excellence, prosperity, or improvement owing to their presence, inventiveness, or disposition?

PSUSA2  posted on  2013-05-11   18:28:31 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#52. To: Lod (#50)

Now who doesn't love psalms and/or proverbs.

For everything their is a season.

______________________________________

Suspect all media / resist bad propaganda/Learn NLP everyday everyway ;) (It's a more positive message)

titorite  posted on  2013-05-11   18:30:22 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#53. To: GreyLmist (#30)

You might not consider that as rising to the level of a verbalized attack but I consider it, at the very least, to be a left-handed undercut.

You may consider it as you wish. If differing opinions upset you so then there is a simple way to handle it: Don't read them.

I stand by my tentative conclusion (tentative saving the presentation of conclusive evidence) that the "no planes" is most likely a disinformation line planted to kookify those who question the "Official Fairy Tale®©". I have seen it done too many times where later the rug was pulled out from under those who had bit on a disinfo plant. Be aware that this is a routine procedure conducted by the flunkies of the PTB.

As well planes or no planes is, as I have commented before, almost irrelevant. That is another point which causes me to look at it as probable disinfo as the resolution of the issue with any certainty is virtually impossible with the current data set and is a side issue that distracts from the main data set. A perfect choice for planted disinformation.

There is an abundance of more easily checked evidence showing that the official story cannot possibly be true. So, for me it is not an issue of any great significance.

Which "no plane" hit building 7?

Perseverent Gardener
"“Believe nothing merely because you have been told it. Do not believe what your teacher tells you merely out of respect for the teacher. But whatsoever, after due examination and analysis, you find to be kind, conducive to the good, the benefit, the welfare of all beings - that doctrine believe and cling to, and take it as your guide.” ~ Gautama Siddhartha — The Buddha

Original_Intent  posted on  2013-05-11   18:32:29 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#54. To: All (#52) (Edited)

Just kidding About my ripping on the beatles there... (still don't none of you do it!)

______________________________________

Suspect all media / resist bad propaganda/Learn NLP everyday everyway ;) (It's a more positive message)

titorite  posted on  2013-05-11   18:33:30 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#55. To: PSUSA2 (#31)

If you are waiting for me to commit seppuku please hold your breath.

Perseverent Gardener
"“Believe nothing merely because you have been told it. Do not believe what your teacher tells you merely out of respect for the teacher. But whatsoever, after due examination and analysis, you find to be kind, conducive to the good, the benefit, the welfare of all beings - that doctrine believe and cling to, and take it as your guide.” ~ Gautama Siddhartha — The Buddha

Original_Intent  posted on  2013-05-11   18:36:50 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#56. To: FormerLurker, titorite, Lod, christine, Katniss, Dakmar, Esso, noone2, RickyJ (#43)

If you want to know what a real cyber command troll looks like then we need look no further than former lurker

------------------------------------------

Are you not aware how YOU look to the average person, or are you too infatuated with your self to notice?

Oooh! That one has to have left a mark. ;-)

Perseverent Gardener
"“Believe nothing merely because you have been told it. Do not believe what your teacher tells you merely out of respect for the teacher. But whatsoever, after due examination and analysis, you find to be kind, conducive to the good, the benefit, the welfare of all beings - that doctrine believe and cling to, and take it as your guide.” ~ Gautama Siddhartha — The Buddha

Original_Intent  posted on  2013-05-11   18:39:38 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#57. To: Original_Intent (#56)

Oooh! That one has to have left a mark. ;-)

Well, I must admit I have done a bunch of editing to correct my buthurt pride but in the end I think his seeds of division shall find only salty earth.....

eh.

______________________________________

Suspect all media / resist bad propaganda/Learn NLP everyday everyway ;) (It's a more positive message)

titorite  posted on  2013-05-11   18:44:31 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#58. To: Original_Intent (#55)

If you are waiting for me to commit seppuku please hold your breath.

I've already seen you do it. No breath holding necessary.

Fukushima and Corexit. If you were to be believed, we'd all be dead now.

------------------------------------------

Can you demonstrate a single instance in history where incursion by niggers blacks has resulted in excellence, prosperity, or improvement owing to their presence, inventiveness, or disposition?

PSUSA2  posted on  2013-05-11   18:48:33 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#59. To: titorite, Original_Intent (#57)

but in the end I think his seeds of division shall find only salty earth.....

eh.

In the end.


"If they can get you asking the wrong questions, they don't have to worry about answers" ~ Thomas Pynchon Gravity's Rainbow

wudidiz  posted on  2013-05-11   19:49:17 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#60. To: BSUSATOO, PSUSA2 (#58) (Edited)

If you are waiting for me to commit seppuku please hold your breath.

I've already seen you do it. No breath holding necessary.

Fukushima and Corexit. If you were to be believed, we'd all be dead now.

A. Your childish distortion of what I said aside (at no time did I make an absolute apocalyptic prediction - I did say that unchecked that it had the potential (I know, I know, its another one of them thar biig werdz you don't like) to be a near extinction level event. A statement I still believe to be true.) Thankfully it was slowed down, although, at this time, it is still leaking. Nevertheless everything I predicted about the Gulf has come to pass. Some of it not as quickly as I thought it would, but it was an accurate prediction based upon the available evidence. Recent reports from fisherman show that their catch has declined precipitously, and despite heavy handed suppression of scientific results it has leaked out that much of the seafood that is still coming out of the Gulf is contaminated with residues of corexit and crude oil. People who have come in contact with the corexit do become sick, and it IS more toxic than crude oil. However, a lot has, for the time being, settled to the bottom of the Gulf where its effects are making their way felt up the food chain.

B. Fukushima is still leaking large amounts of radiation. The suppressed NOAA report that leaked out shows that a large chunk of the West was heavily blanketed with Cesium in the days following the event. The cores have escaped containment and lie bare in the ground which is connected via the water table to both the local aquifer and directly into the ocean. Seafood coming out of the North Pacific (Salmon, Crab, Halibut, etc.,) is showing signs of radiation contamination. However, I heartily encourage you to eat all of the Gulf seafood, and North Pacific Seafood, that you can hold. Hint: Radiation is cumulative and although one serving may not be a lethal dose it builds up in your body and does not leave. So, if you consume enough they may well bury you in a lead coffin. Not that I would think that a pleasant thought of course.

Ground Under Fukushima Reactor 4 Is Sinking: nuclear-news.net/2013/05/...ushima-unit-4-is-sinking/

Scary - Japan Stroke Rate Spiked 3.4x Higher In 3564 Yr Olds: fukushima-diary.com/2013/...-times-much-in-35-64-y-o/

16,740 Bq/Kg From PROCESSED Shiitake Mushroom: fukushima-diary.com/2013/...cessed-shiitake-mushroom/

TEPCO To Pump Fukushima Groundwater To Sea: ajw.asahi.com/article/031.../fukushima/AJ201305080062

Fukushima Forests Found To Be Radioactive: nuclear-news.net/2013/05/...-found-to-be-radioactive/

Perseverent Gardener
"“Believe nothing merely because you have been told it. Do not believe what your teacher tells you merely out of respect for the teacher. But whatsoever, after due examination and analysis, you find to be kind, conducive to the good, the benefit, the welfare of all beings - that doctrine believe and cling to, and take it as your guide.” ~ Gautama Siddhartha — The Buddha

Original_Intent  posted on  2013-05-11   20:02:09 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#61. To: titorite (#57)

Sorry, I'm not taking sides, but it was good comeback.

Perseverent Gardener
"“Believe nothing merely because you have been told it. Do not believe what your teacher tells you merely out of respect for the teacher. But whatsoever, after due examination and analysis, you find to be kind, conducive to the good, the benefit, the welfare of all beings - that doctrine believe and cling to, and take it as your guide.” ~ Gautama Siddhartha — The Buddha

Original_Intent  posted on  2013-05-11   20:03:17 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#62. To: Original_Intent (#60)

hat it had the potential

yeah. Potential. That's funny.

I wonder what will be the next disaster that will have the "potential" to make us all die horrible deaths.

I guess we'll find out, right? I'm sure you'll keep us informed. And I'm sure that you will accuse those that call bullshit on your hyperbole of being disinfo shills. There's precedent for that.

------------------------------------------

Can you demonstrate a single instance in history where incursion by niggers blacks has resulted in excellence, prosperity, or improvement owing to their presence, inventiveness, or disposition?

PSUSA2  posted on  2013-05-11   20:16:28 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#63. To: BSUSATOO, PSUSA2 (#62)

Geee! What a great comeback. I am just sooooooooooooo chastened. Oh, boo hoo.

Play Again?

Perseverent Gardener
"“Believe nothing merely because you have been told it. Do not believe what your teacher tells you merely out of respect for the teacher. But whatsoever, after due examination and analysis, you find to be kind, conducive to the good, the benefit, the welfare of all beings - that doctrine believe and cling to, and take it as your guide.” ~ Gautama Siddhartha — The Buddha

Original_Intent  posted on  2013-05-11   20:21:09 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#64. To: Original_Intent (#63) (Edited)

You're not capable of being chastened. That requires a conscience and the ability to say "I was wrong".

------------------------------------------

Can you demonstrate a single instance in history where incursion by niggers blacks has resulted in excellence, prosperity, or improvement owing to their presence, inventiveness, or disposition?

PSUSA2  posted on  2013-05-11   20:29:16 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#65. To: ALL (#63) (Edited)

This debate of no-planes vs. planes does no good and is just what the disinfo agents want, division. None of us know the exact truth, and we may never, but we do know that our government and the media are covering it up and we also know that the buildings could not have fallen like that due to fires and the planes hitting them. We know that 19 Muslims didn't take those buildings down, and we know the US government is covering up the truth, so why argue about trivia that hasn't been proven 100% either way when we have a smoking gun in WTC7?

God is always good!

RickyJ  posted on  2013-05-11   20:33:59 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#66. To: PSUSA2 (#64)

Which in turn assumes someone bright enough to make their case. I have apologized to other people on multiple occasions when I was in error. You simply have had to try and manufacture a case out of distortions and unsupported slurs. Much like much of the rest of your drool commentary. However, keep trying I get a charge out of watching you slobber all over the board.

Perseverent Gardener
"“Believe nothing merely because you have been told it. Do not believe what your teacher tells you merely out of respect for the teacher. But whatsoever, after due examination and analysis, you find to be kind, conducive to the good, the benefit, the welfare of all beings - that doctrine believe and cling to, and take it as your guide.” ~ Gautama Siddhartha — The Buddha

Original_Intent  posted on  2013-05-11   20:36:06 ET  (2 images) Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#67. To: RickyJ (#65)

This is true.

------------------------------------------

Can you demonstrate a single instance in history where incursion by niggers blacks has resulted in excellence, prosperity, or improvement owing to their presence, inventiveness, or disposition?

PSUSA2  posted on  2013-05-11   20:36:57 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#68. To: RickyJ (#65)

This debate of no-planes vs. planes does no good and is just what the disinfo agents want, division. None of us know the exact truth, and we may never, but we do know that our government and the media are covering it up and we also know that the buildings could not have fallen like that due to fires and the planes hitting them. We know that 19 Muslims didn't take those buildings down, and we know the US government is covering up the truth, so why argue about trivia that hasn't been proven 100% either way when we have a smoking gun in WTC7?

Thank You. Exactly my point.

Perseverent Gardener
"“Believe nothing merely because you have been told it. Do not believe what your teacher tells you merely out of respect for the teacher. But whatsoever, after due examination and analysis, you find to be kind, conducive to the good, the benefit, the welfare of all beings - that doctrine believe and cling to, and take it as your guide.” ~ Gautama Siddhartha — The Buddha

Original_Intent  posted on  2013-05-11   20:37:19 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#69. To: PSUSA2, RickyJ (#67) (Edited)

This is true.

Well I disagree with you both and happyly agree to disagree. I know where yall stand and yall seen how I stand recently if you saw that anti Texas isreali day thread....

I can't beat a dead horse with out exhausting myself by I can say we all know the score. :)

______________________________________

Suspect all media / resist bad propaganda/Learn NLP everyday everyway ;) (It's a more positive message)

titorite  posted on  2013-05-11   20:39:32 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#70. To: Original_Intent (#66)

I have apologized to other people on multiple occasions when I was in error.

Well if you were talking about "potentials", then you can comfort yourself that you weren't "wrong".

There is nothing to apologize for when one is wrong. An admission is enough. Then if the other person does an Internet Victory Dance, it's on him or her.

------------------------------------------

Can you demonstrate a single instance in history where incursion by niggers blacks has resulted in excellence, prosperity, or improvement owing to their presence, inventiveness, or disposition?

PSUSA2  posted on  2013-05-11   20:40:55 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#71. To: titorite (#69)

Hell, I disagree with almost everyone here at one time or another. Disagreements are no big deal, so long as they're honest disagreements.

------------------------------------------

Can you demonstrate a single instance in history where incursion by niggers blacks has resulted in excellence, prosperity, or improvement owing to their presence, inventiveness, or disposition?

PSUSA2  posted on  2013-05-11   20:42:30 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#72. To: PSUSA2 (#70)

The problem though is that I never said my predictions were set in stone, but most of what I did predict has come to pass in one form or another. And the level of environmental damage the ecosphere is sustaining is approaching a critical level. Is survival possible? Well, likely but the Hobbesian "Nasty, brutish, and short" also comes to mind.

Perseverent Gardener
"“Believe nothing merely because you have been told it. Do not believe what your teacher tells you merely out of respect for the teacher. But whatsoever, after due examination and analysis, you find to be kind, conducive to the good, the benefit, the welfare of all beings - that doctrine believe and cling to, and take it as your guide.” ~ Gautama Siddhartha — The Buddha

Original_Intent  posted on  2013-05-11   20:46:36 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#73. To: Original_Intent (#72)

We've had population bottlenecks before.

We haven't been good stewards of this planet, but I think we are full of ourselves if we think we can influence the climate. Yes I believe there has been a change, but it's a natural change. This whole GW bullshit is just an example of Rahms' Law, of not letting a crisis go to waste.

------------------------------------------

Can you demonstrate a single instance in history where incursion by niggers blacks has resulted in excellence, prosperity, or improvement owing to their presence, inventiveness, or disposition?

PSUSA2  posted on  2013-05-11   20:59:22 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#74. To: titorite (#49) (Edited)

Post 46 should be deleted for it's open nerolingustic attack upon a specific individual.

You remind me of someone's tag line, it goes something like;

A certain kind of person cries out in pain as they strike you in the face. That sort of person be like you...


"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2013-05-11   22:09:20 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#75. To: titorite, *9-11* (#41)

All your grandstanding aside, do you have anything INTELLIGENT to say about what I originally said?

Do you have ANY real proof of how or why what you say is even possible, where the fact is it would have been MUCH easier and foolproof to actually fly aircraft remotely into the tower, and it wouldn't require the involvement of hundreds of thousands of people from every aspect of the event to conspire together to kill 3000 people with beams from space?

Do you have anything to offer that would explain why the attacks required fake footage of an airplane striking the tower, and having ALL emergency personel involved, all victims and their families involved, and having ALL news media across the world, their engineering staffs, production teams, reporters, cameramen, etc., ALL be involved in this murderous idea?


"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2013-05-11   22:28:16 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#76. To: PSUSA2 (#62)

Fukishima IS an ONGOING world disaster. There IS radiation from it poisoning the entire world.

The Gulf oil spill IS still wreaking damage across the Gulf of Mexico and areas which the Gulf stream passes through. Corexit IS worse than oil, and I'd bet the entire ecosystem in that area is saturated with it.

So what's to argue? Things ARE messed up, and they COULD have been worse, but even if it IS worse than is being reported, do you think they'd tell us?


"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2013-05-11   22:34:56 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#77. To: PSUSA2 (#47)

Some people are too emotionally invested in their own beliefs. It's like a religion. Believe or burn!

Yep. If they're being honest about it that is, which in this case is dubious. Too much drama for it to be real, and that was my earlier point.


"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2013-05-11   22:46:52 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#78. To: GreyLmist (#26)

Me:
You also have the burden of proof of providing facts, not conjecture, allegations, accusations, and doctored videos, to show ANYTHING in the way of valid evidence that planes DID NOT strike the WTC towers on 9/11.

Your side has not done so, but sure scream "disinfo" like little girls when anyone disagrees with you.

You:

The "disinfo" shrillness has been coming mostly from people like you

Take a peek at post #41.

Do you not see any hypocrisy in what you write?


"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2013-05-11   23:02:44 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#79. To: FormerLurker, crazy bitches (#75)

Who cares.

You're wrong and you're nuts and you argue like a crazy bitch.

It's gross.

Hope I haven't offended any crazy bitches.


"If they can get you asking the wrong questions, they don't have to worry about answers" ~ Thomas Pynchon Gravity's Rainbow

wudidiz  posted on  2013-05-11   23:41:24 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#80. To: All (#79)

crazy bitches


"If they can get you asking the wrong questions, they don't have to worry about answers" ~ Thomas Pynchon Gravity's Rainbow

wudidiz  posted on  2013-05-11   23:44:49 ET  (1 image) Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#81. To: All (#80)

crazy bitch


"If they can get you asking the wrong questions, they don't have to worry about answers" ~ Thomas Pynchon Gravity's Rainbow

wudidiz  posted on  2013-05-11   23:48:04 ET  (1 image) Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#82. To: All (#81)


"If they can get you asking the wrong questions, they don't have to worry about answers" ~ Thomas Pynchon Gravity's Rainbow

wudidiz  posted on  2013-05-11   23:49:14 ET  (1 image) Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#83. To: All (#82)

more of same


"If they can get you asking the wrong questions, they don't have to worry about answers" ~ Thomas Pynchon Gravity's Rainbow

wudidiz  posted on  2013-05-11   23:55:46 ET  (1 image) Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#84. To: All (#83)


"If they can get you asking the wrong questions, they don't have to worry about answers" ~ Thomas Pynchon Gravity's Rainbow

wudidiz  posted on  2013-05-11   23:56:50 ET  (1 image) Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#85. To: Original_Intent (#0)

Why is this bullshit being re-hashed? The only significant official truth about 9- 11 is that two 767s hit the towers.

SKYDRIFTER  posted on  2013-05-12   0:23:05 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#86. To: SKYDRIFTER (#85)

Why is this bullshit being re-hashed? The only significant official truth about 9- 11 is that two 767s hit the towers.

Wanna explain how they did that with out any trace of wake vortex following them into and through the smoke?

Basic laws of aerodynamics.....

Ignorance begets tyranny.

______________________________________

Suspect all media / resist bad propaganda/Learn NLP everyday everyway ;) (It's a more positive message)

titorite  posted on  2013-05-12   0:30:21 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#87. To: titorite (#86)

Wanna explain how they did that with out any trace of wake vortex following them into and through the smoke?

Through what smoke?

If you don't know, I'm captain qualified on the 757/767.

Wake turbulence is a feature of a slow-moving aircraft at takeoff and landing speeds 120 - 150 knots; with flaps extended.

The 767's would have been at a minimum airspeed of 250 knots; given that no flaps were extended.

SKYDRIFTER  posted on  2013-05-12   0:38:10 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#88. To: wudidiz (#79)

ME: All your grandstanding aside, do you have anything INTELLIGENT to say about what I originally said?

YOU Who cares.

You're wrong and you're nuts and you argue like a crazy bitch.

And here chimes in another one who can't see himself in the mirror.


"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2013-05-12   0:41:52 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#89. To: wudidiz (#84)

Have any more shit on your harddrive that you feel a need to share with everyone on 4um?


"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2013-05-12   0:43:06 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#90. To: SKYDRIFTER (#87)

Just give it a few hours SKYDRIFTER. I'm sure you'll get a well thought out response.


"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2013-05-12   0:43:58 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#91. To: SKYDRIFTER, Original_Intent, titorite (#85)

The only significant official truth about 9- 11 is that two 767s hit the towers.


"If they can get you asking the wrong questions, they don't have to worry about answers" ~ Thomas Pynchon Gravity's Rainbow

wudidiz  posted on  2013-05-12   0:46:19 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#92. To: wudidiz (#91)

So once again Mr. wud, what the hell is that supposed to prove? That one guy out of millions who were there in the area watching the events unfold appears a bit rehearsed in his responses? Truly, what IS that supposed to prove?


"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2013-05-12   0:52:22 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#93. To: FormerLurker (#92)

a bit rehearsed???

You're dishonest and, like I say, not deserving of my time


"If they can get you asking the wrong questions, they don't have to worry about answers" ~ Thomas Pynchon Gravity's Rainbow

wudidiz  posted on  2013-05-12   0:54:43 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#94. To: wudidiz (#93)

You're dishonest and, like I say, not deserving of my time

Like I said, you need to take a good long hard look in the mirror dude.


"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2013-05-12   1:01:43 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#95. To: SKYDRIFTER (#87) (Edited)

Through what smoke?

If you don't know, I'm captain qualified on the 757/767.

Wake turbulence is a feature of a slow-moving aircraft at takeoff and landing speeds 120 - 150 knots; with flaps extended.

The 767's would have been at a minimum airspeed of 250 knots; given that no flaps were extended.

I want you and EVERYONE to note that I specifically asked you (an alleged qualified pilot captain) about wake vortex.

Not wake turbulence.

Wake vortex happens as an after effect of the wings moving through the air. Like a boat cutting through the water it is always present. It does not "not happen" just because a plane is in take off or landing. It is a feature of all aircraft at all times. It is basic aerodynamics.

How could a person such as yourself be ignorant to this fact?

Are you messing around with me?

______________________________________

Suspect all media / resist bad propaganda/Learn NLP everyday everyway ;) (It's a more positive message)

titorite  posted on  2013-05-12   5:03:01 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#96. To: FormerLurker (#94)

Like I said, you need to take a good long hard look in the mirror dude.

No he doesn't Wudidiz is just fine.

You on the otherhand former lurker, are a tyranny worshipping monster.

One more time in case you did not process it in the first reading.

You former Lurker, are a tyranny worshipping monster.

______________________________________

Suspect all media / resist bad propaganda/Learn NLP everyday everyway ;) (It's a more positive message)

titorite  posted on  2013-05-12   5:04:54 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#97. To: titorite (#95)

huh


"If they can get you asking the wrong questions, they don't have to worry about answers" ~ Thomas Pynchon Gravity's Rainbow

wudidiz  posted on  2013-05-12   5:26:18 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#98. To: FormerLurker, titorite, christine, Original_Intent, GreyLmist, *9-11* (#96)

I don't expect a reasonable, sensible response from you, so I will post this for anyone else reading. FormerLurker, you keep demanding an answer for how everyone can be in on it if no planes were used. Noone except yourself here has made the claim that in order for a psyop to happen the whole populaton of New York must be conspirators. Noone has insisted that it is impossible for them to have gotten away with exploding the wtc with bombs unless "millions" were in on it. Why must everyone be in on it if there were no planes? It's ludicrous. It doesn't take too many people to do a conspiracy. Most are willing dupes or play only a small part in a chain of command. They're all understanding that to reveal secrets would be a security risk, if not suicidal. They don't hire people that ask pesky questions. Now you're smart enough to know all this. So why do you continue to constantly harrass anyone who disagrees with the points in the official story that you so passionately and tenaciously defend? Why do you seem to have such a personal interest in this argument as if you own it and must protect it. Isn't the truth all that should be important? Since when is the truth movement organized? Who will benefit from regulating discussion? Who's in charge here? You? Why do you have no interest in examining this objectively, you make false claims and don't back them up, you evade direct questions, you've not once yet provided me with any credible witnesses like I've repetitively asked. Your spamming terroristic style is annoying, gross and disgusting. If I had any shame I'd be embarrassed to be posting on the same page as you. You're like a childish bully with no desire for civil discourse, no respect for the truth and an obsessive compulsion to win the argument in your own mind at any cost.


"If they can get you asking the wrong questions, they don't have to worry about answers" ~ Thomas Pynchon Gravity's Rainbow

wudidiz  posted on  2013-05-12   6:29:39 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#99. To: titorite (#86)

Wanna explain how they did that with out any trace of wake vortex following them into and through the smoke?

Show where the 2nd plane flew thru any smoke.

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Can you demonstrate a single instance in history where incursion by niggers blacks has resulted in excellence, prosperity, or improvement owing to their presence, inventiveness, or disposition?

PSUSA2  posted on  2013-05-12   7:25:12 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#100. To: PSUSA2 (#99)

Wake vortex follows the plane Pusa.

The Planes are not the point of focus. The vortex of wind the is made by the wings splice through the air creating uneven currents of air pressure is the focus.

The wake.

Planes slam into buildings creating explosion, fire, smoke, yada yada.

Just like the wake of a boat that scuttles into land it did not just dissappear. The wake should be visible on all cameras on all film footage.

The text book "swirl" that makes all those con/chemtrails spiraled. ... It should be clearly evident in the smoke and explosions of the days event.

If you know about it then you get nagged by the question.

The more you know the less of a hold tyranny has on you.

Ignorance begets tyranny. I had to learn alot all about this. Now that I have learned stuff I share what I have learned that so that others will be free from the ignorance.

Or at least I try.

______________________________________

Suspect all media / resist bad propaganda/Learn NLP everyday everyway ;) (It's a more positive message)

titorite  posted on  2013-05-12   7:36:04 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#101. To: titorite (#100) (Edited)

You didn't answer my question.

In order for there to be any visible "swirl" caused by wingtip vortices, it must fly thru a medium such as smoke.

Show where the 2nd plane flew thru smoke.

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Can you demonstrate a single instance in history where incursion by niggers blacks has resulted in excellence, prosperity, or improvement owing to their presence, inventiveness, or disposition?

PSUSA2  posted on  2013-05-12   7:42:14 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#102. To: PSUSA2 (#101)

No no no....

First of all the effect is present whether smoke is there or not... Smoke does not make the vortex.

Flying does.

You know the birds that fly in a V formation... you can't see their lift but you know why they fly in a V. (Right?)

You are correct about me explaining the thing with out showing you a picture.

I can not show you a picture because their isn't one. That is my problem.

Their should be lots of examples of the wake Vortex slamming into the fireball explosion and subsequent smoke.

The fireball should swirled like an airplane crash... not bloosomed like a typical ordinance explosion.

______________________________________

Suspect all media / resist bad propaganda/Learn NLP everyday everyway ;) (It's a more positive message)

titorite  posted on  2013-05-12   7:47:33 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#103. To: All (#102) (Edited)

OK let me try the bathtub method.

We have all seen the whirlpool in a bath tub. Now when we pull the plug to the drain that vortex forms right away. We could put red food coloring into the water near the drain and see it before the water levels get all the way down to the bottom of the bathtub.

The whirlpool spiral vortex into the drain is always there even if their is no food coloring dye to show it off.

Same is true of wake vortex for planes.

Even if their is no smoke to show it off, the effect is still present.

One effect forms going down a drain the other effect forms following a plane.

______________________________________

Suspect all media / resist bad propaganda/Learn NLP everyday everyway ;) (It's a more positive message)

titorite  posted on  2013-05-12   7:51:40 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#104. To: titorite (#102)

First of all the effect is present whether smoke is there or not... Smoke does not make the vortex.

Yes I know.

Are you saying that the wingtip vortices continue moving forward after the plane crashes?

It's caused by movement. When movement stops, vortices stop. Do you dispute that? It sounds like you do.

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Can you demonstrate a single instance in history where incursion by niggers blacks has resulted in excellence, prosperity, or improvement owing to their presence, inventiveness, or disposition?

PSUSA2  posted on  2013-05-12   7:53:18 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#105. To: PSUSA2 (#104)

Ok... follow me here like the wake vortex follows a plane.

As a plane flys it is creating a votex of air current that follows it.

It crashed. No new vortex is created. The vortex behind it does not stop existing though... No it follows the direction of forward and outward as it was created until dissipation.... which can take several minutes.

The wind wake should of blasted into those explosions.

I can not show you a picture of this.

That is the problem.

______________________________________

Suspect all media / resist bad propaganda/Learn NLP everyday everyway ;) (It's a more positive message)

titorite  posted on  2013-05-12   7:58:59 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#106. To: FormerLurker (#76)

Fukishima IS an ONGOING world disaster. There IS radiation from it poisoning the entire world.

The Gulf oil spill IS still wreaking damage across the Gulf of Mexico and areas which the Gulf stream passes through. Corexit IS worse than oil, and I'd bet the entire ecosystem in that area is saturated with it.

So what's to argue? Things ARE messed up, and they COULD have been worse, but even if it IS worse than is being reported, do you think they'd tell us?

I never said they weren't disasters.

What I said was that the dangers were exaggerated. The "OMG WE'RE ALL GONNA DIE!!!" was pretty much constant.

I prefer to deal with What Is instead of What Could Have Been.

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Can you demonstrate a single instance in history where incursion by niggers blacks has resulted in excellence, prosperity, or improvement owing to their presence, inventiveness, or disposition?

PSUSA2  posted on  2013-05-12   8:07:40 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#107. To: titorite (#105) (Edited)

It crashed. No new vortex is created. The vortex behind it does not stop existing though... No it follows the direction of forward and outward as it was created until dissipation.... which can take several minutes.

Yes. It is BEHIND the plane, not in front.

You seem to have a problem with there being no vortex effects in FRONT of the plane after it hits the towers.

Quote:

"Their should be lots of examples of the wake Vortex slamming into the fireball explosion and subsequent smoke. "

The fireball was on the other side of the building after it crashed thru it. That's on video.

Quote:

"The text book "swirl" that makes all those con/chemtrails spiraled. ... It should be clearly evident in the smoke and explosions of the days event. "

No, because that is BEHIND the plane. Why would it be visible?

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Can you demonstrate a single instance in history where incursion by niggers blacks has resulted in excellence, prosperity, or improvement owing to their presence, inventiveness, or disposition?

PSUSA2  posted on  2013-05-12   8:13:03 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#108. To: PSUSA2 (#107)

No, because that is BEHIND the plane.

Yes behind. It follows the plane.

If the plane crashes into towers then the vortex crashes into the towers too.

Unlike the plane, the vortex effect reforms and continues spinning forward and outward ... until it dissipates.

The explosion and subsequent smoke should of shown off the wake vortex effects typical of any winged aircraft (choppers included).

The effect should be able to be pointed out in the numerous photos and videos.

Should should should.

The tyranny relies on ignorance to oppress us.

This debate may not matter in the larger scheme of things.

I was just pointing this shit out because you gave me the post nod about it several posts back. If I can not educate you proper to all the details then I guess I am not a super duper teacher. Lord knows I had to learn all this shit myself.

Regardless of any of this it is like I said with the boats... you know a wake follows a boat. That boat scuttles aground and the wake is still, flowing outwards in the water, there while your cussing lifes little events. The wake vortex should of slammed into the fireball and swirled the smoke.

And this is just the planes we are speaking too.

We have not even touched on all the dare devil helicopters that never seem to affect burning towers smoke.

______________________________________

Suspect all media / resist bad propaganda/Learn NLP everyday everyway ;) (It's a more positive message)

titorite  posted on  2013-05-12   8:25:18 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#109. To: titorite (#108) (Edited)

Unlike the plane, the vortex effect reforms and continues spinning forward and outward ... until it dissipates.

Show me where the vortex continues forward after forward movement of the airplane stops. Dont just make the allegation. If you want to prove something, if you want to convince others, then use proof.

Since the vortex is created by movement, then when movement stops, the vortex is no longer being created. What you are saying is that the vortex continues to be created and travels forward after forward movement of the airplane stops.

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Can you demonstrate a single instance in history where incursion by niggers blacks has resulted in excellence, prosperity, or improvement owing to their presence, inventiveness, or disposition?

PSUSA2  posted on  2013-05-12   8:41:03 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#110. To: PSUSA2 (#109) (Edited)

Show me where the vortex continues forward after forward movement of the airplane stops. Dont just make the allegation. If you want to prove something, if you want to convince others, then use proof.

Since the vortex is created by movement, then when movement stops, the vortex is no longer being created. What you are saying is that the vortex continues to be created and travels forward after forward movement of the airplane stops.

It is not an allegation Pusa.

The laws of physics are there regardless of what we say or think.

And I keep using the example of a boat wake because i am hopefull you have seen more water in your life... I am hopefull my example is relateable.

A boat speeds through the water... it makes a wake... it crashes on land and stops. The wake it made in the water continues to crash on the banks.

When a plane begins to make a wake vortex it takes awhile for the effect to dissipate.

Just like the boat.

______________________________________

Suspect all media / resist bad propaganda/Learn NLP everyday everyway ;) (It's a more positive message)

titorite  posted on  2013-05-12   8:52:58 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#111. To: titorite (#110) (Edited)

Your boat analogy doesn't cut it.

www.grc.nasa.gov/WWW/k-12/airplane/downwash.html

www.flywestwind.com/wtc/pprograms/turbulance.htm

Boats do not have wings. Wings are necessary in order to generate wingtip vortices. Airplanes do not fly on water.

I believe you are saying these things because you believe it all sounds right to you.

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Can you demonstrate a single instance in history where incursion by niggers blacks has resulted in excellence, prosperity, or improvement owing to their presence, inventiveness, or disposition?

PSUSA2  posted on  2013-05-12   9:06:42 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#112. To: PSUSA2 (#111) (Edited)

I believe you are being stubborn on purpose but this does not change the facts of realty. The physical laws of the universe. I was trying to use the boat analogy because it does cut it. (ironic choice of words)

In fact it does exactly that.

It cuts through the water and makes a wake. The same could be said of the wings. They cut through the air and make a wake.

Now the thing forming the wake stop... explodes dies whatever.... That thing is not the wake.

The wake is a separate and independent thing.

You act as though a boat can float with out making a wake.

You act as though a plane can fly with out make a wake vortex.

You act as though you do not want to learn.

This is basic aerodynamics. Put the 911 thing aside for a moment.

You have seen a bon fire before. You know if you through something through that bon fire that the flame will follow the woft of air.

Now these planes have HUGE wofts of air following them

Should these planes crash the woft of air following them does not instantaneously stop.

Should these planes crash the woft of air following them does not evaporate immediately.

NO Sir!!

Should these planes crash the wake vortex woft of air will follow the path it was following right into the crash site.... swriling fire,smoke,and debris.

______________________________________

Suspect all media / resist bad propaganda/Learn NLP everyday everyway ;) (It's a more positive message)

titorite  posted on  2013-05-12   9:26:42 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#113. To: FormerLurker, Original_Intent (#36) (Edited)

Me: The reality is that the vast bulk of disinfo charges have been emanating fiercely from your sector from the get go. Since you are obviously oblivious to even that evidence trail, I say that's yet another reason why you should recuse yourself from the debates, as is this:

FL: If you'd like I can find the post where the accusations first got hurled.

You'll find that the first disinfo charge in this thread was made against No Planers by Dr. Ed Ward/DEW in the opening thread article that was posted by O_I, not a No Planer, and also in his opening comment there.

To recap, my first post at #11 here was not to address those charges in general against No Planers that were emanating unprovoked once again from your side's sector, as they typically have been (for the most part) lo these many years. The purpose of my first posting was simply to establish the factual evidence that the Pentagon trillions did not go missing on Zakheim's Comptroller watch, as is usually thought, but earlier. That was answered by O_I with vulgarity at #13 over debates about planes that he had launched with this topic -- not No Planers -- and another post by him at #17 equating No Planes research with planted disinfo, kookery and bull; later described by O_I as not attaking anyone in particular for believing differently -- i.e. merely directed derisively at all No Planers collectively. My one sentence explanation at #30 for why I disagreed with his downplayed claim of non-aggressiveness was backhanded at #53 as me being upset and unable to handle differing opinions rather than the other way around. In response to his "equation" at #17, though, and with no malintent, I stated my concerned opinion of the planes line as not only disinfo but MKULTRA-like PsyOp conditioning and what I see as some of the objectives of that in-process. The point that personalized attacks were blatantly inserted into this thread was your post at #21, FL.

This is one of the most bizarrely twisting and pointless Planer-mazes of "9/11 heresy" entrapment that I've ever had the regret to have encountered...Obstructionism, obliteration of continuity, hypocritical and false accusation, illogical dismissal of all No Planes evidence as invalid (even the documented evidence that Flt. 11 didn't fly that day in New York was of no interest to proof-demanders), speculative conjecture about remote control from Planers considered to be a valid case instead. All that's been established here with so many posts (other than the Pentagon missing money facts that took just 1 to present) is that, as usual, it is a vast waste of time to try and discuss planes vs. no planes with those who aren't much concerned with issues beyond exposing the official spin as implausible or impossible and who have no real intention of doing anything but pretending they've never seen anything from the No Planes investigations in all these years that they consider to be valid evidence because: only the evidence that they agree with as supportive of their belief system about planes should be considered as having any validity at all. As for your question at #40, FL:

So if someone said fairies with boots blew the towers over with fairie dust, the burden of proof would rest with those who claim that DIDN'T happen?

Pyrotechnic pixie dust is what Steven Jones, Niels Harrit and others claim blew the towers down. Even though the burden of proof is on them and not people like me who don't believe that, still I provided you with much evidence that refutes their thermitics claim and it doesn't become baseless/unsound/inadmissable/or invalid if you disagree. It stays in evidence for others to consider.

Edited for readability.

-------

"They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC

GreyLmist  posted on  2013-05-12   9:34:56 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#114. To: titorite (#112)

You act as though you do not want to learn.

This is basic aerodynamics.

You're taking this personally. It's not that I don't want to learn. It's that I refuse to just take someones word for anything. If you ever hope to convince someone that there were no planes involved, you have a long row to hoe.

Leave the personal crap out of it.

You write of physics and basic aerodynamics, and still find it necessary to use a boat (and now a bonfire) analogy. If you want to use physics or aerodynamics to prove your case, then use them.

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Can you demonstrate a single instance in history where incursion by niggers blacks has resulted in excellence, prosperity, or improvement owing to their presence, inventiveness, or disposition?

PSUSA2  posted on  2013-05-12   9:43:13 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#115. To: PSUSA2 (#114) (Edited)

I am not taking it personally I assure you. Me and you been here to many years for that. As for the anologys. They are for your benifit . Not mine.

I already tried explaining basic aerodynamics to you.

You made mention of the vortices only being observable with smoke... Since you think that is so it demonstraits to me that you have a lack of understanding about wake vortex. .... and it shows me that I will have to... bring it down a notch to a better laymen level.

Anology

..... I must admit though... It does boggle my mind that you think the wind stops because an object making that wind stops.

A wake vortex is a spiraling wind in motion. It will dissapate when not being constantly created but it does not dissapate instantaneously.

Should these planes crash the woft of air following them does not instantaneously stop.

Should these planes crash the woft of air following them does not evaporate immediately.

Again no no no...

Should these planes crash the wake vortex woft of air will follow the path it was following right into the crash site.... swriling fire,smoke,and debris.

______________________________________

Suspect all media / resist bad propaganda/Learn NLP everyday everyway ;) (It's a more positive message)

titorite  posted on  2013-05-12   9:58:48 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#116. To: titorite (#115)

You made mention of the vortices only being observable with smoke

I made no such observation.

"It will dissapate when not being constantly created but it does not dissapate instantaneously. "

True. But it remains BEHIND the wing, not in front of it. When the plane stops, so does the vortex generation, because movement is what generates it. I never said that it's effects don't linger for a time.

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Can you demonstrate a single instance in history where incursion by niggers blacks has resulted in excellence, prosperity, or improvement owing to their presence, inventiveness, or disposition?

PSUSA2  posted on  2013-05-12   10:06:32 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#117. To: PSUSA2 (#101)

In order for there to be any visible "swirl" caused by wingtip vortices, it must fly thru a medium such as smoke.

That must be the source of my confusion.

And I know the vortex is formed behind the wings. What I am trying to get across is that the vortex FOLLOWS the wings....

So if the wings fly into a wall

The wake vortex will follow right into that wall.

You do know these vortexes to follow along at lengths of miles yeah?

Full speed into a building should of netted a half hour of spinning wind smashing into a crash site. It should be observable in the pictures and videos.

The vortex.. It follows behind and INTO!

follow me yet?

______________________________________

Suspect all media / resist bad propaganda/Learn NLP everyday everyway ;) (It's a more positive message)

titorite  posted on  2013-05-12   10:21:16 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#118. To: titorite (#117)

And I know the vortex is formed behind the wings. What I am trying to get across is that the vortex FOLLOWS the wings....

WEll that goes without saying. If it is behind the wings, it follows the wings.

Yes I follow you.

The key word is "follow". Where we differ is you allege that vortices will continue in front of the wing if a plane stops.

Then you say that because there is no vortex evident in the fire and smoke, that means there was no plane. That fire was propelled out the opposite side of the building where there would be no vortex because it is in front of the airplane.

------------------------------------------

Can you demonstrate a single instance in history where incursion by niggers blacks has resulted in excellence, prosperity, or improvement owing to their presence, inventiveness, or disposition?

PSUSA2  posted on  2013-05-12   10:33:17 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#119. To: PSUSA2 (#118) (Edited)

Where we differ is you allege that vortices will continue in front of the wing if a plane stops.

Yes. That is not an alligation... it is a newtonian law.

It is called momentum.

The plane had something to stop it... a building.

The Vortex followed the wings... INTO THE BUILDING.

Or it would of had their been real wake vortex.

And yes I do assert that if we do not see the evidence for wake vortex it can only be because it isn't there... and if it isn't there then the thing that should of caused it is an illusion.

So..we agree that wake vortex can linger right? and that the vortex follows the wings and should the wings crash into a building the wake vortex created will also follow the wings slamming into whatever the wings slammed into.

Are we in agreement on that much?

______________________________________

Suspect all media / resist bad propaganda/Learn NLP everyday everyway ;) (It's a more positive message)

titorite  posted on  2013-05-12   10:50:06 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#120. To: titorite (#119)

So..we agree that wake vortex can linger right?

Yes.

"and that the vortex follows the wings and should the wings crash into a building the wake vortex created will also follow the wings slamming into whatever the wings slammed into. "

Yes.

Key word = "follow".

Not sure if the word "slamming" is accurate. How powerful is a wing tip vortex? It can flip a plane if one is following too closely but how much power is there I don't know.

Again, you seem to be saying that this vortex would have traveled thru the building and out the other side, leaving evidence of it in the smoke and fire that exited the building on the other side. That we don't agree on.

------------------------------------------

Can you demonstrate a single instance in history where incursion by niggers blacks has resulted in excellence, prosperity, or improvement owing to their presence, inventiveness, or disposition?

PSUSA2  posted on  2013-05-12   11:00:54 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#121. To: PSUSA2 (#120)

How powerful is a wing tip vortex? It can flip a plane if one is following too closely but how much power is there I don't know.

It can flip over a plane.

Do you think it can swirl fire and smoke given you know it can flip over a plane (their used to be this awesome video of a plane flipping over a car that was too close to a runway... I used to use that one for these kinds of expositions... alas.. the new youtube sucks.. just know it can flip cars too)

Again these vortexs can be miles long. Thats why they linger.

And no, they will not precede the plane.

However.. plane crashes and they will follow unto the point of impact...

The wake vortex would not of flown "through" the building.. but rather into the building,fireball,and smoke.

We should be able to see the same kind of swirl as shown off on the wiki pages about wake vortex turbulence.

That we can not should be a red flag.

You asked me for a picture of what I was speaking about and I let you know why I can not find one.

Can you find proof of the wake vortex effect where I could not?

______________________________________

Suspect all media / resist bad propaganda/Learn NLP everyday everyway ;) (It's a more positive message)

titorite  posted on  2013-05-12   11:11:40 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#122. To: titorite (#121)

We should be able to see the same kind of swirl as shown off on the wiki pages about wake vortex turbulence.

Should?

I'm not sure what you mean. I dont believe we are on the same page here.

Do you mean where the plane hit the building, or where the fire and debris exited at the other side of the building?

What proof of wing tip vortices do you mean? there are plenty of images on google.

If you mean why the vortices weren't seen where the plane impacted the tower, well most of the fire and debris exited the building on the other side of the tower.

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Can you demonstrate a single instance in history where incursion by niggers blacks has resulted in excellence, prosperity, or improvement owing to their presence, inventiveness, or disposition?

PSUSA2  posted on  2013-05-12   11:50:21 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#123. To: PSUSA2 (#122)

If you mean why the vortices weren't seen where the plane impacted the tower, well most of the fire and debris exited the building on the other side of the tower.

NOOOOOOO Noooo non no no

Nope no

That is not how the laws of physics works... Like you, bullshitting about what coulda been is not my style.

The fire and debris were not all ejected from only one side of the building. You did not say that was so, but how you imply it... No man.. It was a big fire ball

Emphasis on the word FIREBALL

Then smoke.

The wake vortex following a plane travelling at full speed would of been miles long. It would of followed into the fireball and made a mess of that smoke trail...

It would not of flown through the building.

Into it yes.

Threw it?

no

Swirled fire and smoke?

that would of been present had the wake vortex been there... since it wasn't that leads it self to an uncofortable conclusion.

Remove all that you know is false once you know it is false for certain.

______________________________________

Suspect all media / resist bad propaganda/Learn NLP everyday everyway ;) (It's a more positive message)

titorite  posted on  2013-05-12   12:05:55 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#124. To: titorite (#123)

The fire and debris were not all ejected from only one side of the building. You did not say that was so, but how you imply it... No man.. It was a big fire ball

www.youtube.com/watch?fea...lpage&v=EFiEgwLQVJk#t=57s

I implied nothing.

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Can you demonstrate a single instance in history where incursion by niggers blacks has resulted in excellence, prosperity, or improvement owing to their presence, inventiveness, or disposition?

PSUSA2  posted on  2013-05-12   12:58:14 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#125. To: PSUSA2 (#124)

And this is why I went with anology. For me it is a really easy concept understand . Wind vortex follows the plane. This can be googled.

Even if the plane blows up the created vortex will still follow forward.

Seems like an easy concept.

I have severe trouble understanding what you fail to grasp about it?

Again : just because the a plane crashes , this does not make the wake vortex disappear.

NOr does it run through the building like you imply.... Not with out wofting the fire ball.

I don't know how some people can look at something before them and swear to god that it isnt there.... I can't lie to myself like that.

______________________________________

Suspect all media / resist bad propaganda/Learn NLP everyday everyway ;) (It's a more positive message)

titorite  posted on  2013-05-12   14:00:23 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#126. To: titorite, wudidiz (#96)

No he doesn't Wudidiz is just fine.

Neither one of you EVER debate a subject with any degree of intelligence, so I guess in your eyes, he IS doing just fine.

You on the otherhand former lurker, are a tyranny worshipping monster.

I guess in your Orwellian mind set, where worshipping the state produced disinfo stories such as "no planes hit the WTC on 9/11", and "space beams destroyed them rather than conventional explosives" is required to be a "true patriot", I'm a heretic.


"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2013-05-12   14:06:56 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#127. To: wudidiz (#98)

Noone except yourself here has made the claim that in order for a psyop to happen the whole populaton of New York must be conspirators.

You claim the hijacked aircraft never took off that day. If that were true, don't you think someone at the airport would have noticed? Don't you think the victims or their families would have said, "hey wait, we (or they) were never on that flight"?

Do you think the "fake video" could have been broadcast without the news crews on the scene and the production crews at the news centers knowing that what was being broacast wasn't really happennig, or the people who were standing there watching it unfold live wouldn't have noticed?

Why do YOU launch personal attacks rather than debate any facts, and rely on childish rants and accusations to "make your case"?


"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2013-05-12   14:16:14 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#128. To: titorite, PSUSA2, SKYDRIFTER (#108)

Yes behind. It follows the plane.

It is formed BEHIND the plane, but does NOT follow it with its own motion.


"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2013-05-12   14:17:53 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#129. To: titorite (#110)

The laws of physics are there regardless of what we say or think.

Describe the laws of physics as they apply to what you claim.


"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2013-05-12   14:18:41 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#130. To: FormerLurker (#128)

It is formed BEHIND the plane, but does NOT follow it with its own motion.

That's what I was trying to get thru to him. It's as if he thinks it takes on a life of it's own after there is nothing left to create a vortex.

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Can you demonstrate a single instance in history where incursion by niggers blacks has resulted in excellence, prosperity, or improvement owing to their presence, inventiveness, or disposition?

PSUSA2  posted on  2013-05-12   14:21:29 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#131. To: GreyLmist (#113)

You'll find that the first disinfo charge in this thread was made against No Planers by Dr. Ed Ward/DEW in the opening thread article that was posted by O_I, not a No Planer, and also in his opening comment there.

You'll find that with the exception of yourself, "no planners" modus operandi is to hurl insults, accusations, conjecture, and junk science, ignoring any amount of reason or logic which utterly disproves their claims.


"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2013-05-12   14:22:14 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#132. To: PSUSA2 (#130)

Don't expect him to concede ANYTHING, no matter how trivial it is...


"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2013-05-12   14:22:50 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#133. To: titorite (#125)

Wind vortex follows the plane. This can be googled.

No need. I already knew this

" Even if the plane blows up the created vortex will still follow forward. "

Forward past the nose of the (crashed) plane? Prove it.

" Again : just because the a plane crashes , this does not make the wake vortex disappear. "

I can see how it would exist for a time, BEHIND the wings.

------------------------------------------

Can you demonstrate a single instance in history where incursion by niggers blacks has resulted in excellence, prosperity, or improvement owing to their presence, inventiveness, or disposition?

PSUSA2  posted on  2013-05-12   14:25:04 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#134. To: FormerLurker (#132)

I dont even think we're on the same page here. This whole thread is a mess.

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Can you demonstrate a single instance in history where incursion by niggers blacks has resulted in excellence, prosperity, or improvement owing to their presence, inventiveness, or disposition?

PSUSA2  posted on  2013-05-12   14:26:18 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#135. To: wudidiz (#98)

And IF this "fake video" were truly produced with the intent of killing 3000 people on that fateful morning, and broadcast as if it were truly happening, they would have gotten it right BEFORE airing it worldwide?

And don't you think the hundreds of thousands of bystanders who actually SAW what was going on would have said what they were seeing was different than what was aired?


"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2013-05-12   14:29:19 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#136. To: PSUSA2 (#134)

I dont even think we're on the same page here. This whole thread is a mess.

No we are. I was just stating that no matter HOW you explain it to him, he will refuse to concede ANYTHING which will eliminate one of his programmed "facts" which he's been fed.


"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2013-05-12   14:30:45 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#137. To: FormerLurker (#136)

Well he did say that I was lying to myself.

If people want to believe there were no planes, more power to them. Just so they know they are going to meet some stiff resistance if they try and convince other people.

------------------------------------------

Can you demonstrate a single instance in history where incursion by niggers blacks has resulted in excellence, prosperity, or improvement owing to their presence, inventiveness, or disposition?

PSUSA2  posted on  2013-05-12   14:34:28 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#138. To: titorite, PSUSA (#119) (Edited)

Yes. That is not an alligation... it is a newtonian law.

It is called momentum.

I bet you couldn't explain the Law of Momentum even if you had a physics book right in front of you.

Thing is, vortices have no momentum in the direction of travel of the aircraft, they are simply circular air currents which form behind the aircraft, they do not travel forward.

Again, do you think those who masterminded 9/11 would have rolled the dice and hoped nobody on the scene would have noticed that no aircraft hit the WTC, it simply blew up with an aircraft shaped entrance hole?

THOUSANDS of people at minimum saw the second aircraft strike the WTC. People WERE jumping off to their deaths, contrary to your comrades claim that they were mannequins being tossed off by "conspirators inside the building".


"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2013-05-12   14:39:24 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#139. To: PSUSA2 (#137) (Edited)

If people want to believe there were no planes, more power to them. Just so they know they are going to meet some stiff resistance if they try and convince other people.

They simply call people who don't believe them "tyranny loving disinfo agents", sort of like how Larouche supporters call those who don't support their hero "homosexuals".


"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2013-05-12   14:40:25 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#140. To: FormerLurker (#139)

They simply call people who don't believe them "tyranny loving disinfo agents", sort of like how Larouche supporters call those who don't support their hero "homosexuals".

Some do. They aren't doing themselves any favors by exposing their own stupidity like that. They seem to have an authoritarian streak. They will be believed, or else, and reason be damned.

------------------------------------------

Can you demonstrate a single instance in history where incursion by niggers blacks has resulted in excellence, prosperity, or improvement owing to their presence, inventiveness, or disposition?

PSUSA2  posted on  2013-05-12   15:05:29 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#141. To: titorite, Christine, FormerLurker, Lod, Artisian, Wudidiz, GreyLmist, IRTorqued, Robin, StephenLendman, Original_Intent, RickyJ, Tartarwitz, BTPHoldings, itisalreadytolate (#95)

How could a person such as yourself be ignorant to this fact?

I want you and EVERYONE to note that I specifically asked you (an alleged qualified pilot captain) about wake vortex.


Titorite, my apologies, I took it for granted that you were referring to the more commonly known “wake turbulence.” In my personal experience, I’ve known few qualified pilots to use the term “wake vortex.” In fact, I'm more than surprised that you know that particular term. However, the term. “wake vortex,” is pertinent and – in fact – is documented on 9-11 to anyone’s intelligent satisfaction. As I illustrate, I hope you are also satisfied.

"Wake vortex" is most prominently witnessed by the human eye in the presence of reasonably dense clouds, fog or smoke. It can also be evidenced at high cruise altitudes by ice crystals; most commonly the product of jet engine exhaust contrails. It is far less commonly evidenced by the aerodynamic condensation of water vapor (humidity).

In the last few 9-11 video clips of the second aircraft hitting the WTC, a seeming “pod” is seen under the right wing-root. Detailed examination of those clips shows that the “pod” grows – but leaves vapor “wisps.” In concert, the “pod” is seen as the aircraft is maneuvered, aerodynamically creating the condensation dynamics for the wake vortex to be witnessed/recorded.

The same effect is occasionally seen during the takeoff of a commercial jet; as the aircraft rotates, during the takeoff – in the presence of high humidity or fog. The effect evidences the real-time aerodynamic “lift” airflow. Again, as the aircraft is maneuvered.

What few qualified pilots appreciate is that the compounded curves of jet transport wing-roots effect the greatest localized magnitude for the “Bernoulli effect,” the ‘stuff’ of aerodynamic “lift;” aka, pressure differential. Thus, the appearance of the apparent “pod” is not an arbitrary location.

The “pod,” ironically serves your position – though probably not to your pleasure.

Please be advised that my aviation credentials are factual; not “alleged.” Comparably, your bullshit “no-planes” assertions are factual; not “alleged.”

The WTC “no-planes” issue has been competently debunked from early on. Only ignoramuses, fools, idiots and disinformationists go there.

If you’re truly interested in 9-11 “no-planes” facts; look to the 9-11 Pentagon and Shanksville. Those locations offer some of the most powerful truth to argue “inside-job.” The same WTC “no-planes” ignoramuses, fools, idiots and disinformationists won’t or can’t go there – for obvious reasons.

If you need or want a competent and detailed account of 9-11, please pack a big lunch and see:

“9-11 and the Truth”

Please pardon the ‘pulled’ graphics, the ‘official’ powers have their proverbial “vays.” More and more, we’re seeing the onset of Next-Generation Nazism; don’t you think?

Titorite, if you’re factually interested in pertinent 9-11 facts, I’ve opened a major door for you. As due and timely notice, pass the opportunity at your own peril. You’re on the verge of becoming everyday automatic “attack sport;” as are any of your seeming supporters. If you ask any of the 4-um "old timers," you'll discover that I'm the last person that you want to cross swords with; directly or indirectly. Or, if you're an 'old' disinformationist who has dealt with me before (under a different moniker); you already know that.


SKYDRIFTER  posted on  2013-05-12   16:25:41 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#142. To: FormerLurker, titorite, PSUSA2 (#128)

It is formed BEHIND the plane, but does NOT follow it with its own motion.

Relative to this discussion, you're totally correct. Any pertinent/significant volume of following "inertial" airflow would possess a "compression" effect; which would diminish such as "wake vortex."

The only possible example of following "inertial" airflow which comes to my mind is radical windshear, requiring something on the order of a major thunderstorm or tornado.

A fast moving aircraft would have a certain magnitude of "bow wave;" but it wouldn't have any significant or pertinent role worth mentioning in titorite's scenario.

Titorite is voluntarily and desperately leaning on the tip of his own sword.

SKYDRIFTER  posted on  2013-05-12   17:02:11 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#143. To: SKYDRIFTER (#142)

Their beliefs get in the way of the facts.

That's not unusual. I've done it. So has everyone else.

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Can you demonstrate a single instance in history where incursion by niggers blacks has resulted in excellence, prosperity, or improvement owing to their presence, inventiveness, or disposition?

PSUSA2  posted on  2013-05-12   17:07:32 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#144. To: PSUSA2 (#143)

Their beliefs get in the way of the facts.

That's not unusual. I've done it. So has everyone else.

No no no Letting your faith blind you to the facts IS unusual.

One should never allow their faith to make liars of themselves.

______________________________________

Suspect all media / resist bad propaganda/Learn NLP everyday everyway ;) (It's a more positive message)

titorite  posted on  2013-05-12   17:14:33 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#145. To: titorite (#144)

I disagree.

If what you're saying was true, the 3 abrahamic faiths would have died many centuries ago.

Faith is what blinds.

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Can you demonstrate a single instance in history where incursion by niggers blacks has resulted in excellence, prosperity, or improvement owing to their presence, inventiveness, or disposition?

PSUSA2  posted on  2013-05-12   17:27:30 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#146. To: SKYDRIFTER (#141)

Titorite, ...... You’re on the verge of becoming everyday automatic “attack sport;” as are any of your seeming supporters...... If you ask any of the 4-um "old timers," you'll discover that I'm the last person that you want to cross swords with; directly or indirectly. (SIC)Or, if you're an 'old' disinformationist who has dealt with me before (under a different moniker); you already know that.

I think Pusa has known me longer then he has had a 2 in his name and darn sure longer than you have been a member here Skydrifter.

I think calling me a disinformation agent is pretty fucking stupid when you can call me or text me. When people here know me.

I think calling me "attack sport" is indicative of your true intent here.

I don't have any "supporters" here. I have friends here.

I hope you leave my friends the hell alone regardless of your reasons you might make up for fucking with them. My friends are not to be fucked with.

You wanna think differently , thats fine. Lord knows Pusa Thinks differently... as do others.

Threats to attack me or my friends is total bullshit. I might make a bunch of quips and sarcastic remarks from time to time however you won't find me resorting to empty petty threats ...it is beneath me. So please , do not attack. It ain't welcome.

______________________________________

Suspect all media / resist bad propaganda/Learn NLP everyday everyway ;) (It's a more positive message)

titorite  posted on  2013-05-12   17:30:38 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#147. To: PSUSA2 (#145)

I disagree.

If what you're saying was true, the 3 abrahamic faiths would have died many centuries ago.

Faith is what blinds.

Well I think christianity is doing a great job and kicking the ass outta the other two abrhamic faiths.... and is it fair to call the cult of the jews a faith?

I mean honestly , they practice ritual sacrifice... they suck babys off, fuck them. I ain't calling no jew faith faithful. Thats a fucking cult...

And Islam.... IDK... I ain't to fond of their blood sacrifices.

I don't read the xtians doing much of the same when it comes to the extreme... the mormons might fuck it all up with multiple underage wives ... but at least they wait for the babys to learn potty control.....

Alas... faith... how screwy.

No, when it comes to facts , the facts should be stuck with. let the religious keep to the faith.

______________________________________

Suspect all media / resist bad propaganda/Learn NLP everyday everyway ;) (It's a more positive message)

titorite  posted on  2013-05-12   17:35:24 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#148. To: FormerLurker (#128)

It is formed BEHIND the plane, but does NOT follow it with its own motion.

See now that is why you should not listen to this man... he has no fucking clue what he is talking about... Pusa I think you already know the votices follow the wings and not the plane...

AND

I think you know that the effect can linger... and that it follows the plane with its own momentum once created.

And what former lurker suggests their violates that laws of motion.

______________________________________

Suspect all media / resist bad propaganda/Learn NLP everyday everyway ;) (It's a more positive message)

titorite  posted on  2013-05-12   17:38:01 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#149. To: titorite (#147)

No, when it comes to facts , the facts should be stuck with. let the religious keep to the faith.

Just so they keep it far away from me, then live and let live.

But they don't do that. You know, the "great commission" etc. They love to spread their cancer. Misery loves company.

But I know I've done in the past what they do now. So I don't hate them, unless they try and interfere.

------------------------------------------

Can you demonstrate a single instance in history where incursion by niggers blacks has resulted in excellence, prosperity, or improvement owing to their presence, inventiveness, or disposition?

PSUSA2  posted on  2013-05-12   17:41:50 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#150. To: PSUSA2 (#133)

Forward past the nose of the (crashed) plane? Prove it.

OK I meantion something about this here all being provable with just any old search engine.. but here you are saying you still know all about it and that I need to "prove it".

https://www.google.com/search?q=wake+vortex+explained

I don't think you really understand yet. These vortixes are miles long.

Again , these vortices can be miles long.

The plane is not 1 miles long.

The vortex a plane creates can be multiple miles long.

Should the plane slam into a wall the miles long vortics will follow the path of its creation.... into the direction of that wall.

This is not that hard to grasp.

How can you not be understanding it unless you just in gods truth , don't want to understand it?

______________________________________

Suspect all media / resist bad propaganda/Learn NLP everyday everyway ;) (It's a more positive message)

titorite  posted on  2013-05-12   17:48:00 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#151. To: All (#150)

LOL mind boggling

______________________________________

Suspect all media / resist bad propaganda/Learn NLP everyday everyway ;) (It's a more positive message)

titorite  posted on  2013-05-12   17:49:25 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#152. To: titorite, SKYDRIFTER, *9-11* (#146)

I think calling me a disinformation agent is pretty fucking stupid when you can call me or text me. When people here know me. I think calling me "attack sport" is indicative of your true intent here. I don't have any "supporters" here. I have friends here. I hope you leave my friends the hell alone regardless of your reasons you might make up for fucking with them. My friends are not to be fucked with.

Some of us have known each other for a LONG time before you showed your face on this forum.

It's clear to US that you are not interested in any sort of "truth", your only concern is to attack those who are.


"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2013-05-12   17:51:02 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#153. To: FormerLurker, PUSA2 (#152)

Some of us have known each other for a LONG time before you showed your face on this forum.

No way.

You shouldn't make a dick measuring contest outta this FL. You won't win.

ANYWAYS ,

I found a neat vid showing of the wake vortex effect here

cospilot.wordpress.com/20...ake-turbulence-explained/

And in it you can see the formation of the vortex and that once it is created it is self sustaining for a bit... lingering if you will... and should that plane crash into a wall its wake vortex will follow it into that wall.

Don't listen to the like of FL.. it does not magically appear if the plane explodes or stops suddenly.

______________________________________

Suspect all media / resist bad propaganda/Learn NLP everyday everyway ;) (It's a more positive message)

titorite  posted on  2013-05-12   17:55:45 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#154. To: titorite, SKYDRIFTER (#148)

See now that is why you should not listen to this man... he has no fucking clue what he is talking about... Pusa I think you already know the votices follow the wings and not the plane...

AND

I think you know that the effect can linger... and that it follows the plane with its own momentum once created.

And what former lurker suggests their violates that laws of motion

Did you ever graduate Jr. High?

The vortices are circular currents of air formed BEHIND THE PLANE, they are not jet streams which travel along with the plane with any sort of forward velocity.

Oh, but you know more than airline pilots and others who have studied these matter WELL beyond anything you could ever possibly fathom.

Who taught you this sort of "science", Jim Fetzer?

Do you even have a clue as to what the "Laws of Motion" are?

What sort of force causes the air currents to form in the first place? Do you even know that?


"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2013-05-12   17:56:09 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#155. To: titorite (#153)

No way.

And no way are you rustyrail from LP. You are an imposter.


"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2013-05-12   17:56:46 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#156. To: titorite (#153)

Don't listen to the like of FL..

Uh huh. Professor titOR ite has spoken, so everyone obey his words because, well, he orders it.


"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2013-05-12   17:58:00 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#157. To: FormerLurker (#154)

The vortices are circular currents of air formed BEHIND THE PLANE, they are not jet streams which travel along with the plane with any sort of forward velocity.

LOL.

Better to keep your mouth shut and be thought of as a fool rather than to open your mouth and prove it.

______________________________________

Suspect all media / resist bad propaganda/Learn NLP everyday everyway ;) (It's a more positive message)

titorite  posted on  2013-05-12   17:58:49 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#158. To: titorite (#153)

So again, do you have ANY sort of proof that the hundreds of thousands of people who watched the events unfold live in front of their eyes are LYING, and that they all conspired together to murder 3000 people that morning?


"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2013-05-12   18:00:04 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#159. To: titorite (#157)

Better to keep your mouth shut and be thought of as a fool rather than to open your mouth and prove it.

You've already displayed your stupidity here, so you may want to heed your own advice.

But if you wish to continue, go ahead and explain how wing vortices are formed. And oh yeah, try to get the spelling right if you don't want people to think that you never even finished elementary school.


"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2013-05-12   18:01:50 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#160. To: FormerLurker, christine, wudidiz, GreyLmist, PUSA2, EVERYONE (#155)

And no way are you rustyrail from LP. You are an imposter.

That is correct.

its Rale boot licker.

not rail.

And just how do you know this information?

Is it saved to your hard drive?

What the fuck are you doing keeping such old information on people.

Fuck you tyranny lover.

______________________________________

Suspect all media / resist bad propaganda/Learn NLP everyday everyway ;) (It's a more positive message)

titorite  posted on  2013-05-12   18:04:11 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#161. To: titorite (#160)

You posted that information along the way, or made that claim at least.

As far as "tyranny lover", I'm sure you've handed over some info to your handlers as far as personal info on some here who believe you're really just an immature innocent little thing whose "heart" is in the "right place".


"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2013-05-12   18:13:02 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#162. To: FormerLurker (#161) (Edited)

What are you doing with any information about me sitting right by your side?

Stop gathering information about members here.

Its creepy as fucking sin.

______________________________________

Suspect all media / resist bad propaganda/Learn NLP everyday everyway ;) (It's a more positive message)

titorite  posted on  2013-05-12   18:14:53 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#163. To: titorite (#160)

Again, it's quite obvious that you're not here to learn anything or search for truth, you're here to discredit those who ARE. Your form of "debate" revolves around INSISTING that you're smarter than pilots and everyone else, then hurling insults and accusations if they don't lick your boots.

Keep it up, I'm sure you'll win new converts.


"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2013-05-12   18:16:06 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#164. To: titorite (#162)

Stop posting shit about yourself you'd rather keep private, and stop acting like such a drama queen.

But no, I don't think you really are rustyrail. He seemed like a decent enough guy, but then again I've haven't really spoken to him for years, so if it IS you, what sort of drugs have you done that made you lose your mind?


"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2013-05-12   18:18:01 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#165. To: titorite (#162)

Oh my mistake, it wasn't rustyrail, it was rustynail.

I doubt you are him.


"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2013-05-12   18:21:19 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#166. To: FormerLurker, christine (#164)

But no, I don't think you really are rustyrail.

Christine I think this problem is worth your time and attention. When you get the time to pay attention. I know you're a busy girl.

______________________________________

Suspect all media / resist bad propaganda/Learn NLP everyday everyway ;) (It's a more positive message)

titorite  posted on  2013-05-12   18:24:40 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#167. To: titorite (#150)

Again , these vortices can be miles long.

Yes I know. You are stating the obvious.

How does that tie in with no planes? Please be concise. Start another thread if you want, because this thread is a mess.

------------------------------------------

Can you demonstrate a single instance in history where incursion by niggers blacks has resulted in excellence, prosperity, or improvement owing to their presence, inventiveness, or disposition?

PSUSA2  posted on  2013-05-12   18:26:21 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#168. To: titorite, christine (#166)

Christine I think this problem is worth your time and attention. When you get the time to pay attention. I know you're a busy girl.

I think you are a liar and a swindler.

As far as your claims here on this forum of being another poster on LP, I think you are lying about THAT, although you HAVE posted that claim ON the forum in full view.

So stop acting all butthurt over something YOU did.


"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2013-05-12   18:27:26 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#169. To: FormerLurker (#165)

Oh my mistake, it wasn't rustyrail, it was rustynail.

I doubt you are him.

So what is this you showing off your ballz?

This clever little tactic does not excuse the action you meant to set into motion.

Of late your screen account has made me ponder... is it really good to kick out the known disinformation agents..

The known information gatherers.

If we kick out the thugs they can re-register over and over. But if we let them be all they can do is pass around their active account. ....Sometimes though...

Sometimes a line may be crossed and the question should be put up again...

What is better.. to keep em here under our nose where we can see em or to toss them to the curb and pray for traffic?

______________________________________

Suspect all media / resist bad propaganda/Learn NLP everyday everyway ;) (It's a more positive message)

titorite  posted on  2013-05-12   18:30:00 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#170. To: PSUSA2 (#167)

If you ping me with a PM you can hold me too it. Otherwise I might lose track... and I'd like to try.

______________________________________

Suspect all media / resist bad propaganda/Learn NLP everyday everyway ;) (It's a more positive message)

titorite  posted on  2013-05-12   18:32:13 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#171. To: titorite (#169)

As I said, you are not here to debate, you are here to attack those who DO provide factual information, then act all butthurt when you're called on your own bullshit.

And oh yes, you MUST hurl the lies, accusations, and drama.


"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2013-05-12   18:34:44 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#172. To: FormerLurker (#171)

Former Lurker Are you or are you not the one accusing me and interrogating me over whether or not I might be another poster on another forum?

Why are you trying to gather information on me?

______________________________________

Suspect all media / resist bad propaganda/Learn NLP everyday everyway ;) (It's a more positive message)

titorite  posted on  2013-05-12   18:41:51 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#173. To: titorite, Christine, FormerLurker, Lod, Artisian, Wudidiz, GreyLmist, IRTorqued, Robin, StephenLendman, Original_Intent, RickyJ, Tartarwitz, BTPHoldings, itisalreadytolate (#146)

I think Pusa has known me longer then he has had a 2 in his name and darn sure longer than you have been a member here Skydrifter.

I think calling me a disinformation agent is pretty fucking stupid when you can call me or text me. When people here know me.

I think calling me "attack sport" is indicative of your true intent here.

I don't have any "supporters" here. I have friends here.

I hope you leave my friends the hell alone regardless of your reasons you might make up for fucking with them. My friends are not to be fucked with.

You wanna think differently , thats fine. Lord knows Pusa Thinks differently... as do others.

Threats to attack me or my friends is total bullshit. I might make a bunch of quips and sarcastic remarks from time to time however you won't find me resorting to empty petty threats ...it is beneath me. So please , do not attack. It ain't welcome.

I haven't seen such amateurish application of semantics and context-shifting in a while. So mote it be.

It may have been a mistake, but out of reasonable respect, I gave you a competent answer to your "wake vortex" issue; and more. I began with an apology. Any truly decent person would have thanked me; or possibly asked for further clarification. In similar respect I cautioned you; I didn't "call" anyone anything. Instead of appropriately responding, you chose to fly your true colors. That's ironically to be appreciated.

You don't seem to know much about my 4-um 'seniority' or the magnitude of respect which I have always commanded among those who are to be counted as fact and truth seekers. I doubt that my history has any meaning to you; but that makes no difference to me.

As to your impotent childish and vitriolic drivel; bad move! OR, to be more accurate, "... another bad move!" You're best advised to choose your next words and attitude very carefully. If in doubt, ask Christine.

BAC to you.


SKYDRIFTER  posted on  2013-05-12   18:49:13 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#174. To: titorite (#172)

You claimed both myself and SKYDRIFTER are newcomers here compared to you, and that you are "friends" with everyone here.

I simply pointed out that we've been around MUCH longer than you, and your claims that you were some other poster on LP is a load of shit.

As far as WHERE you made that claim, it was somewhere on this forum, I didn't save the link but I should have just to hold it in plain view of everyone here.

If I come across it I'll be sure to bring it to your attention. Or are you going to retract the claim and admit that you are not who you claimed to be?


"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2013-05-12   18:52:18 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#175. To: SKYDRIFTER (#173)

I think you need to spend less time threatening people bubba.

And it is a sin of pride to think that much of yourself.

Just FYI.

ALSO

WAKE VORTEX DOES HAVE FORWARD A MOMENTUM.

If you were really a pilot you'd know that. Otherwise you can read the equations on the NASA link Pusa provided much much earlier. The numbers explaining your mistake properly are there.

______________________________________

Suspect all media / resist bad propaganda/Learn NLP everyday everyway ;) (It's a more positive message)

titorite  posted on  2013-05-12   18:54:06 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#176. To: SKYDRIFTER (#173)

BAC to you.

Well chosen words.. LOL

Thing is BAC was MAGNITUDES more intelligent, and infinitely more polite.


"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2013-05-12   18:54:33 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#177. To: FormerLurker (#174)

NO NO NO.

You are using a bad context FL.. I told you that one is not allowed to use NLP like that.

It is obvious and it will bite you on the ass.

______________________________________

Suspect all media / resist bad propaganda/Learn NLP everyday everyway ;) (It's a more positive message)

titorite  posted on  2013-05-12   18:55:13 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#178. To: titorite (#175)

If you were really a pilot you'd know that.

Everyone here who's been in touch with this forum over the years already know that SKYDRIFTER IS a real pilot.

He's quite famous actually.

You are a nobody.


"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2013-05-12   18:55:59 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#179. To: FormerLurker (#154)

Who taught you this sort of "science", Jim Fetzer?

That's a truly prominent name in the "no-planes" issue; another persistent but sore loser. I suspect he still loses sleep every time my name pops up.


SKYDRIFTER  posted on  2013-05-12   18:58:26 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#180. To: FormerLurker (#178)

Yeah, everyone online is someone famous.

I'm sure.

I am also sure wake vortex will follow a plane into a wall.

HOPEFULLY SKYDRIFTER will recant and admit to this as well....

But I am not holding my breath.

Also I like being a nobody. So that happened.

______________________________________

Suspect all media / resist bad propaganda/Learn NLP everyday everyway ;) (It's a more positive message)

titorite  posted on  2013-05-12   18:58:45 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#181. To: SKYDRIFTER (#179)

What is your real name John Lear?

______________________________________

Suspect all media / resist bad propaganda/Learn NLP everyday everyway ;) (It's a more positive message)

titorite  posted on  2013-05-12   18:59:21 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#182. To: SKYDRIFTER (#179)

That's a truly prominent name in the "no-planes" issue; another persistent but sore loser. I suspect he still loses sleep every time my name pops up.

He's apparently started a religion over this crap, whose worshippers cling to every word out of his mouth as if he were Jim Jones.

I wonder when they'll be drinking the extra special Kool-Aid. Oh wait...


"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2013-05-12   19:01:08 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#183. To: titorite (#170) (Edited)

If you ping me with a PM you can hold me too it. Otherwise I might lose track... and I'd like to try.

Well, do your part and quit with the crap, and state your case.

People are trying to manoeuver for the kill, but this is a dogfight that no one will win.

Stay on target...

If the facts are on your side, then the facts are on your side. If they're not, they're not.

------------------------------------------

Can you demonstrate a single instance in history where incursion by niggers blacks has resulted in excellence, prosperity, or improvement owing to their presence, inventiveness, or disposition?

PSUSA2  posted on  2013-05-12   19:10:16 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#184. To: SKYDRIFTER (#141) (Edited)

You’re on the verge of becoming everyday automatic “attack sport;” as are any of your seeming supporters.

"Attack sport" targeting No Planers is the purpose of this thread.

If you’re truly interested in 9-11 “no-planes” facts; look to the 9-11 Pentagon and Shanksville. Those locations offer some of the most powerful truth to argue “inside-job.” The same WTC “no-planes” ignoramuses, fools, idiots and disinformationists won’t or can’t go there – for obvious reasons.

I don't know where you got that impression but let's move the jet airflow discussion to the Pentagon site for a moment and over the cars on the highway. If a high speed jet stream can flip planes, what's your thoughts on the impact of that or not to those cars?

Edited first sentence of last paragraph for grammar + 2nd quote section for strikethrough, spacing and highlighting.

-------

"They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC

GreyLmist  posted on  2013-05-12   19:15:16 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#185. To: titorite, PSUSA2, FormerLurker (#181)

What is your real name John Lear?

The question speaks to your intellectual limitations. A strong indication that you're not going to like what's coming at you.

SKYDRIFTER  posted on  2013-05-12   19:40:04 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#186. To: titorite, FormerLurker (#166)

Christine I think this problem is worth your time and attention. When you get the time to pay attention. I know you're a busy girl.

You whine like a little girl; bad move.


SKYDRIFTER  posted on  2013-05-12   19:46:05 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#187. To: GreyLmist (#184)

I don't know where you got that impression but let's move the jet airflow discussion to the Pentagon site for a moment and over the cars on the highway. If a high speed jet stream can flip planes, what's your thoughts on the impact of that or not to those cars?

I'm not aware of a case of high speed airfoil related forces flipping cars. Certainly not at the 9-11 Pentagon scenario - there is no viable evidence of an aircraft; as 'officially' claimed.

In an independent scenario, the engine thrust, well above idle thrust, of a parked jet transport can flip cars if they are close enough; that's evident in history.


SKYDRIFTER  posted on  2013-05-12   19:59:41 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#188. To: titorite, FormerLurker (#153)

ANYWAYS ,

I found a neat vid showing of the wake vortex effect here

cospilot.wordpress.com/20...ake-turbulence-explained/

Titorite, you dumb shit, you referred to a "wake turbulence" site. Not the same critter as "wake vortex;" Duh'oh!

By the way, where are all those "friends" you mentioned? OR, have you embarrassed them that badly? Nobody likes a dumb shit or a loser; you're both.

You've already been advised by a trusted name to back off; listen - don't think - just listen to obviously good advice.


SKYDRIFTER  posted on  2013-05-12   20:37:26 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#189. To: SKYDRIFTER, titorite (#141)

Please be advised that my aviation credentials are factual; not “alleged.” Comparably, your bullshit “no-planes” assertions are factual; not “alleged.”

The WTC “no-planes” issue has been competently debunked from early on. Only ignoramuses, fools, idiots and disinformationists go there.

If you’re truly interested in 9-11 “no-planes” facts; look to the 9-11 Pentagon and Shanksville. Those locations offer some of the most powerful truth to argue “inside-job.” The same WTC “no-planes” ignoramuses, fools, idiots and disinformationists won’t or can’t go there – for obvious reasons.

If you need or want a competent and detailed account of 9-11, please pack a big lunch and see:

“9-11 and the Truth”

I've read this. Very impressive, thank you.

According to the official line as conveyed through the media, 4 airliners crashed on 9/11.

We agree no plane hit the pentagon and no plane crashed in shanksville?

What gives you the idea a plane hit the wtc?

I mean, if a prosecutor were arguing a case to a jury, what evidence are you aware of that could be presented to prove a plane hit the wtc?


"If they can get you asking the wrong questions, they don't have to worry about answers" ~ Thomas Pynchon Gravity's Rainbow

wudidiz  posted on  2013-05-12   20:53:41 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#190. To: SKYDRIFTER, titorite, *No Planers*, *9-11* (#188)

referred to a "wake turbulence" site. Not the same critter as "wake vortex;"

Internet says it's the same thing?


"If they can get you asking the wrong questions, they don't have to worry about answers" ~ Thomas Pynchon Gravity's Rainbow

wudidiz  posted on  2013-05-12   20:56:02 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#191. To: SKYDRIFTER (#188)

Nobody likes a dumb shit or a loser; you're both.

I am both a loser and a dumb shit according to your foolish words

You know nothing but you come off like this and you think you are deserving of my respect.

Degenerate.

______________________________________

Suspect all media / resist bad propaganda/Learn NLP everyday everyway ;) (It's a more positive message)

titorite  posted on  2013-05-12   21:18:53 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#192. To: SKYDRIFTER (#186)

You whine like a little girl; bad move.

I remember a certain other Internet character who loved to ping Goldi-Lox everytime he had his ass handed to him.

BeAChooser's spirit lives on...


"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2013-05-12   22:12:40 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#193. To: titorite (#191)

Degenerate.

You have a way of projecting yourself onto others titOr ite.

To any neutral party watching this exchange, I'm sure they're well aware of who the degenerate here actually is.


"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2013-05-12   22:14:13 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#194. To: wudidiz (#189)

what evidence are you aware of that could be presented to prove a plane hit the wtc?

Airline records, witness statements, and video evidence.


"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2013-05-12   22:16:26 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#195. To: FormerLurker (#194)

where?


"If they can get you asking the wrong questions, they don't have to worry about answers" ~ Thomas Pynchon Gravity's Rainbow

wudidiz  posted on  2013-05-12   22:35:03 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#196. To: SKYDRIFTER (#87)

Wake turbulence is a feature of a slow-moving aircraft at takeoff and landing speeds 120 - 150 knots; with flaps extended.

eh?

In the internet age, think anyone is gonna buy this load specially when it is a breeze (no pun intended) to oogle Wake Turbulence?

Seriously?

What I am reading here, beside you claiming to be a pilot, is that wake Turbulence only, per your claim as a pilot, is a feature of a slow? (really) moving aircraft at take off and landing... no wake turbulence in mid flight?

Is this the final word and authority on wake turbulence vortexes?

SilverStorm  posted on  2013-05-12   22:37:18 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#197. To: wudidiz (#195)

where?

If you don't already know, I don't think there's any way of reaching you wud.


"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2013-05-12   23:25:03 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#198. To: SilverStorm, SKYDRIFTER (#196)

I don't know why SKYDRIFTER doesn't reveal his name since so many people here already know, but he IS an airline pilot, one who's written a thing or two in his day.


"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2013-05-12   23:31:00 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#199. To: SKYDRIFTER (#187)

there is no viable evidence of an aircraft; as 'officially' claimed.

The first minute of this video shows a press conference held by Porter Goss -the same Goss that had breakfast with the Financier of flight 77-Mahmud Ahmed-- on the morning of 911 - at the Capitol on that fateful day.

It must be after what happened in NY but before whatever happened at the Pentagon.

What is making the jet noise?

Aquila  posted on  2013-05-12   23:34:54 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#200. To: FormerLurker (#197)

where?

If you don't already know, I don't think there's any way of reaching you wud.

If all you have is claims with no basis, I'd appreciate it if you'd not address me at all especially when you're not the one I was asking.


"If they can get you asking the wrong questions, they don't have to worry about answers" ~ Thomas Pynchon Gravity's Rainbow

wudidiz  posted on  2013-05-12   23:40:55 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#201. To: Aquila (#199)

What is making the jet noise?

I'd say a jet aircraft for sure; but it occurs significantly after the presented/assumed "event" at the Pentagon.

SKYDRIFTER  posted on  2013-05-13   0:14:33 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#202. To: PSUSA2 (#111)

Your boat analogy doesn't cut it.

http://www.grc.nasa.gov/WWW/k-12/airplane/downwash.html

http://www.flywestwind.com/wtc/pprograms/turbulance.htm

Boats do not have wings. Wings are necessary in order to generate wingtip vortices. Airplanes do not fly on water.

I believe you are saying these things because you believe it all sounds right to you.

Yes it does, the boat analogy is perfect for the wake can physically be seen on the surface of the water whereas it is much harder to spot it in atmosphere.

from another site that is not affiliated with the disinfo agents (USofA) ;)

Wake Vortex Turbulence Categories: Wake Vortex Turbulence | Operational Issues

Definition

Wake Vortex Turbulence is defined as turbulence which is generated by the passage of an aircraft in flight. It will be generated from the point when the nose landing gear of an aircraft leaves the ground on take off and will cease to be generated when the nose landing gear touches the ground during landing. Where another aircraft encounters such turbulence, a Wake Vortex Encounter (WVE) is said to have occurred.

Description

Potentially hazardous turbulence in the wake of an aircraft in flight is principally caused by wing tip vortices. This type of turbulence is significant because wing tip vortices decay quite slowly and can produce a significant rotational influence on an aircraft encountering them for several minutes after they have been generated. Jet Efflux and Prop Wash can also hazard the control of an aircraft both on the ground and in the air but, whilst these effects are often extreme, their effects are more short-lived.

www.skybrary.aero/index.php/Wake_Vortex_Turbulence

It is not because a plane suddenly stop flying, in this case "crashed" into a building, that the wake vortex turbulence stops automatically, it continues until the momentum it gained is lost.

Kanuck education system is flawed but not enough that we are not taught this in depth when in college attending physics class.

Sheesh you guys, Is this common sense trying to prevail over science or science used to prevail over common sense...

This is why planes cannot take off one after the other, they have to wait for the vortex to dissipate in order to take off safely when taking off on the same runway.

SilverStorm  posted on  2013-05-13   0:57:50 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#203. To: FormerLurker (#155)

No way.

And no way are you rustyrail from LP. You are an imposter.

Why should this pertinent to this thread?

Character assassination is the tool per excellence used by dis info agents. Cannot attack efficiently what Titorite is saying, then resort to discredit him... ooooooo, but but but, you cannot be that person from LP.

have a case of the lolz

LOL

SilverStorm  posted on  2013-05-13   1:20:08 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#204. To: SilverStorm, SKYDRIFTER, *9-11* (#203)

Character assassination is the tool per excellence used by dis info agents.

So I suppose you're blind to the fact he attacked me first and hurled MUCH worse accusations towards me.

Yep, you're another "no-planer" aren't you.

You've decided to attack ME when all I said to YOU was that SKYDRIFTER is a known person here. So you figured you'd go on the counter attack with just that, eh?


"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2013-05-13   1:23:57 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#205. To: PSUSA2 (#167)

because this thread is a mess.

Amen to THAT!

With the likes of Tweedle Dee and Tweedle Dum showing up, this thread degenerated into a monkey feces throwing contest.

About to crawl back on my comfortable, highly colorful mushroom and smoke some more.

Just need to finish this long ass thread with it's oh so many personal attack to keep up with what the husband is trying to relate to when he is talking about y'all.

Peace

SilverStorm  posted on  2013-05-13   1:30:02 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#206. To: FormerLurker (#171)

As I said, you are not here to debate, you are here to attack those who DO provide factual information.

Yes, all 3000 of them!

Why is it so important to link Titorite to LP? And why do you care so much about following him around like a cat in heat?

Just curious about your motivations.

SilverStorm  posted on  2013-05-13   1:47:06 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#207. To: Aquila, *9-11* (#199)

The first minute of this video shows a press conference held by Porter Goss [sic] at the Capitol on that fateful day.

It must be after what happened in NY but before whatever happened at the Pentagon.

What is making the jet noise?

Cross-referencing two posts at 4um Title: Former pilot and 9/11 conspiracy theorist shoots and kills 2 teen children, then himself | Link for the video posted there and above: 9/11: Is this AA Flight 77? And what is this explosion?

Post #220: at 2:05 of that video, Goss says that he got to the office of the Speaker of the House, Dennis Hastert, just as the plane hit the Pentagon; [sic] From that statement about the timing of his arrival at Hastert's office, it can be presumed that the clip of him in a press interview at the beginning of the video (with booming and plane sound effects) was not filmed during the Pentagon attack.

Post #205: Most interesting, imo, was G.W. Bush's statements starting at 5:58 that indicate he flew by the Pentagon, in a helicopter, while it was still in flames.

-------

"They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC

GreyLmist  posted on  2013-05-13   1:51:34 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#208. To: FormerLurker (#204)

Yep, you're another "no-planer" aren't you.

So I suppose you're blind to the fact he attacked me first and hurled MUCH worse accusations towards me.

That is Mrs. no-planer to you :)

You gonna cry about that? Let me get a camera and film this for posterity :o)

SilverStorm  posted on  2013-05-13   3:55:44 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#209. To: SilverStorm (#208)

That is Mrs. no-planer to you :)

:)

-------

"They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC

GreyLmist  posted on  2013-05-13   5:51:00 ET  (1 image) Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#210. To: SKYDRIFTER (#188)

You've already been advised by a trusted name to back off; listen - don't think - just listen to obviously good advice.

I want you to know that is a lie on your part. I have not sought nor received any advice regarding you.

I will tell you this much though. When I see two friends fighting I do not get in the middle nor do I take sides. Not all of my friends get along with each other. I do not insist that they do. I love my friends just the way they are.

And now to quote another lie from you skydrifter

Any pertinent/significant volume of following "inertial" airflow would possess a "compression" effect; which would diminish such as "wake vortex."

A fast moving aircraft would have a certain magnitude of "bow wave;" but it wouldn't have any significant or pertinent role worth mentioning in titorite's scenario.

..... My scenario is 911. I don't know what you think I am talking about but I am talking about the events of September eleventh. If you are going to engage in this conversation please keep up with the subject matter . Planes drag air. That dragged air spins into neat vortex. When a plane crashes it brings that dragged air with it all the way into the crash... Because the air dragging behind a plane has a momentum of its own.

I wish your high school science teacher had spent more time on Newton with you.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drafting_%28aerodynamics%29

I didn't "call" anyone anything.

Ignoramuses, fools, idiots and disinformationists , thats what you called me and anyone else who is a proponent of the new plane theory.

Which makes you the hypocrite too... http://www.thepentacon.com/russell-pickering.htm

Kinda like this guy.

...this is gonna be my last word to you for awhile sky.

..... I've decided to bozo you out.

duces.

______________________________________

Suspect all media / resist bad propaganda/Learn NLP everyday everyway ;) (It's a more positive message)

titorite  posted on  2013-05-13   6:33:38 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#211. To: SilverStorm (#202)

It is not because a plane suddenly stop flying, in this case "crashed" into a building, that the wake vortex turbulence stops automatically, it continues until the momentum it gained is lost.

It doesn't retain forward momentum after a crash because there is no forward momentum.

Everyone with an interest in aviation knows that these vortices can last for a period of time. No one is arguing that point.

Now what does all this have to do with "no planes"?

------------------------------------------

Can you demonstrate a single instance in history where incursion by niggers blacks has resulted in excellence, prosperity, or improvement owing to their presence, inventiveness, or disposition?

PSUSA2  posted on  2013-05-13   7:30:17 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#212. To: PSUSA2 (#211) (Edited)

You do know that you can stand to learn more about this subject PUSA?

The vortcies created by planes do indeed have a forward momentum. If they did not they could not be created in the first place. Forward is part of the spin in regards to the vortex.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wingtip_vortices

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dra...ynamics%29#Vortex_surfing

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lifting-line_theory

just saying.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wake

That link has both water and air wakes to learn about ;)

______________________________________

Suspect all media / resist bad propaganda/Learn NLP everyday everyway ;) (It's a more positive message)

titorite  posted on  2013-05-13   8:21:09 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#213. To: titorite (#212)

The vortcies created by planes do indeed have a forward momentum. If they did not they could not be created in the first place. Forward is part of the spin in regards to the vortex.

Proof. you are lacking proof.

Dont paste links. Anyone can do that. Post the proof and the source that vortices can overshoot a wing if a plane crashes into a building.

And what does this have to do with 9/11 PRECISELY????

I dont give a damn about vortices. That is because they have not been shown to be relevant to anything that happened on 9/11.

So, why the focus on vortices? Please answer that, clearly and concisely.

------------------------------------------

Can you demonstrate a single instance in history where incursion by niggers blacks has resulted in excellence, prosperity, or improvement owing to their presence, inventiveness, or disposition?

PSUSA2  posted on  2013-05-13   8:32:17 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#214. To: PSUSA2 (#213)

So, why the focus on vortices? Please answer that, clearly and concisely.

OK... I have tried explaining this to you more than once...

YOu ask for proof but then say don't post links...

So you do not want any proof? or you wants pics. maybe videos... and you don't want me to link that stuff because????

As for why they are relevant; it is because they were present even if you can not see them with the naked eye. The air behind a wing still spins even if their is no smoke to make the act of observation easier.

On 911 we had lots of smoke and two fire balls.

If the wake vortex was really there we would be able to see the evidence of it. That it is NOT present indicates the things that should of caused the wake vortexes may not be real.

Some of this information could be found in those links.

YOur saying that the vortex has no forward momentum... How much do you know about this shit PUSA? Can you regurgitate it to me? Do you know what you are looking for should you attempt to look this shit up online?

encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.co...jHPNTCKBM-BnT-omeUWx4BE-A

Just to say, the effect follows the plane.... if the plane slams into the ground then the effect follows the plane into the ground.

You act as though david copperfield is responsible for flight and that these contrails magically switch on and off.... That is not how it works.... They take alot of momentum to form in the first place and they take a while to dissipate and if the bird making em flys into something and explodes the wake will following into the explosion.

....

I don't know what to say now.... I wanna link a video but you want proof and you want it now and you want it concise and you don't want any links.....'

Seems like the end of the line.

______________________________________

Suspect all media / resist bad propaganda/Learn NLP everyday everyway ;) (It's a more positive message)

titorite  posted on  2013-05-13   9:17:44 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#215. To: All (#214)

I think you depend on me too much to make up your mind for you PUSA.. that or you give not a shit about this and you are just egging me on ad nasum because you think it is fun and nothing I do , say, or provide will be enough for you...

Some people still think box cutters brought down the towers. I am not comfortable with that. I am only comfortable with the truth... no matter how nasty.

______________________________________

Suspect all media / resist bad propaganda/Learn NLP everyday everyway ;) (It's a more positive message)

titorite  posted on  2013-05-13   9:20:23 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#216. To: titorite (#214)

On 911 we had lots of smoke and two fire balls.

If the wake vortex was really there we would be able to see the evidence of it. That it is NOT present indicates the things that should of caused the wake vortexes may not be real.

OK now we're getting somewhere. Finally.

The only way you'd see evidence of it (vortices) is if the plane flew thru smoke/fire.

Did that (plane flying thru smoke/fire) happen? Or did it not happen?

Evidently you claim that (flying thru smoke/fire) didn't happen, thereby proving by the lack of vortices that no planes were involved. Right?

Is that what you're saying?

------------------------------------------

Can you demonstrate a single instance in history where incursion by niggers blacks has resulted in excellence, prosperity, or improvement owing to their presence, inventiveness, or disposition?

PSUSA2  posted on  2013-05-13   9:29:27 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#217. To: PSUSA2 (#216)

OK now we're getting somewhere. Finally.

The only way you'd see evidence of it (vortices) is if the plane flew thru smoke/fire.

Did that (plane flying thru smoke/fire) happen? Or did it not happen?

Evidently you claim that (flying thru smoke/fire) didn't happen, thereby proving by the lack of vortices that no planes were involved. Right?

Is that what you're saying?

Ok, now I am fairly certain you are just fucking with me.

You can "see" vortex in smoke, dust, thermal imaging (flicker cam), derbies...

If nothing is there it is still present.

It is an after effect of flight itself. Of the wings cutting through the air (you could educate yourself better if you were so inclined). It is present whether you can see it or not. It is a spiraling of air that follows the path of its creation.

If the plane flys south the wake vortex goes south. If the plane goes north then the wake vortex goes north.

The the plane crashes no new spiraling creation occurs.

The spiral of air already created will continue to spiral in the direction of its creation.

The spinning spiral wake of air does not instantly stop. It does not disperse immediately. It continues spinning in cycles outwards and forwards ever expanding into the entropy that is eventual dissipation.

The plane may crash but the wake vortex will live on for a moment longer. Long enough to follow through and into the fireball.

Here is a video link you don't want

www.youtube.com/watch?v=krL4fkrySZ4

Watch it or don't.... It proly doesn't matter.

What does matter is that if the wind following the plane has NO forward momentum then it can not really follow anything.

Jesus... It is like you are saying a trailer hauling liquid doesn't continue moving forward if you slam on your truck brakes.

Momentum.

It is a real thing.

______________________________________

Suspect all media / resist bad propaganda/Learn NLP everyday everyway ;) (It's a more positive message)

titorite  posted on  2013-05-13   9:47:00 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#218. To: titorite (#217)

Here is a video link you don't want

www.youtube.com/watch?v=krL4fkrySZ4

Watch it or don't.... It proly doesn't matter.

What the fuck is this shit?

That vid proves nothing other than the already acknowledged fact that wing tip vortices exist. And that blondes can put on boxing gloves... Not sure how that helps your case, but there we are.

GET THIS!! NO ONE IS DISPUTING THE FACT THAT THESE VORTICES EXIST! NO ONE. PERIOD, END OF DISCUSSION.

DID YOU GET THAT???

Now, here are my questions for you.

What is the relevance if these vortices to your ideas of 'no planes'?

Perhaps you have a video of your 'no planes' flying thru smoke? Fire?

FOCUS!

------------------------------------------

Can you demonstrate a single instance in history where incursion by niggers blacks has resulted in excellence, prosperity, or improvement owing to their presence, inventiveness, or disposition?

PSUSA2  posted on  2013-05-13   10:04:18 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#219. To: SKYDRIFTER (#201)

I'd say a jet aircraft for sure; but it occurs significantly after the presented/assumed "event" at the Pentagon.

That press conference occurred between the NY events and whatever happened at the pentagon -or as it happened.. The video proves the timeline. If that press conference happened "significantly after" the event at the pentagon the people milling about while Goss speaks would have to be insane. Look at the people running for their lives. If you watch the whole thing it's clear as a bell.

That's flight 77 audio on tape. It could not be anything else.

Aquila  posted on  2013-05-13   12:10:07 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#220. To: PSUSA2, titorite (#218) (Edited)

What is the relevance if these vortices to your ideas of 'no planes'?

Planes leave wake vortexes behind their wings.

They can be seen on video.

There is no evidence of wake vortex behind any of the planes on any of the videos.

This is another indication that the videos of planes on 9/11 are fake.

(Edited for unnecessary language)


"If they can get you asking the wrong questions, they don't have to worry about answers" ~ Thomas Pynchon Gravity's Rainbow

wudidiz  posted on  2013-05-13   12:40:17 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#221. To: wudidiz (#220)

Can we put this part of the fucking discussion aside for now?

No. We can't.

" There is no evidence of wake vortex behind any of the planes on any of the videos. "

Could it maybe possibly might sort-of be because the plane never flew through any medium (like smoke) to make a visible vortex?

Could that be why there is no evidence?

------------------------------------------

Can you demonstrate a single instance in history where incursion by niggers blacks has resulted in excellence, prosperity, or improvement owing to their presence, inventiveness, or disposition?

PSUSA2  posted on  2013-05-13   12:46:58 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#222. To: PSUSA2 (#221)

Could it maybe possibly might sort-of be because the plane never flew through any medium (like smoke) to make a visible vortex?

Could that be why there is no evidence?

No.


"If they can get you asking the wrong questions, they don't have to worry about answers" ~ Thomas Pynchon Gravity's Rainbow

wudidiz  posted on  2013-05-13   12:49:53 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#223. To: wudidiz (#222)

No

Please, do feel free to elaborate.

You no planers aren't doing a very good job presenting your case. It seems to be limited to arguing the existence of wing tip vortices. No one disputes that.

I'm trying to get you people to present your evidence that there were no planes hitting the towers. It seems my efforts are in vain.

------------------------------------------

Can you demonstrate a single instance in history where incursion by niggers blacks has resulted in excellence, prosperity, or improvement owing to their presence, inventiveness, or disposition?

PSUSA2  posted on  2013-05-13   13:01:13 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#224. To: PSUSA2 (#223)

I'm trying to get you people to present your evidence that there were no planes hitting the towers. It seems my efforts are in vain.

You haven't offered me any money yet.


"If they can get you asking the wrong questions, they don't have to worry about answers" ~ Thomas Pynchon Gravity's Rainbow

wudidiz  posted on  2013-05-13   13:02:26 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#225. To: wudidiz (#224)

You haven't presented anything worth paying for.

------------------------------------------

Can you demonstrate a single instance in history where incursion by niggers blacks has resulted in excellence, prosperity, or improvement owing to their presence, inventiveness, or disposition?

PSUSA2  posted on  2013-05-13   13:05:34 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#226. To: PSUSA2 (#225)

I never said it was worth paying for.


"If they can get you asking the wrong questions, they don't have to worry about answers" ~ Thomas Pynchon Gravity's Rainbow

wudidiz  posted on  2013-05-13   13:15:17 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#227. To: All (#224)

I'm trying to get you people to present your evidence that there were no planes hitting the towers.

Racist.

It seems my efforts are in vain.

Where there's a will there's a way. Believe what you want. If you want to believe the tv and the govt when they tell you that planes were used, fine. It's your life.

I'd like to see some evidence that is more convincing evidence than fake videos and "thousands" of mystery eyewitnesses.


"If they can get you asking the wrong questions, they don't have to worry about answers" ~ Thomas Pynchon Gravity's Rainbow

wudidiz  posted on  2013-05-13   13:32:50 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#228. To: wudidiz (#227)

Believe what you want. If you want to believe the tv and the govt when they tell you that planes were used, fine.

Present your case for there being no planes hitting the towers.

It's a simple request. Allegations have been made. Now back them up with proof.

I'm asking you out in the open to do this. Personally I think the no-planers are full of shit, but I give you and others the chance to prove me wrong. So, go ahead. Prove me wrong. Make me go away in shame after being defeated by you no-planers.

Here's your chance. It's a golden opportunity to prove you are right and I am wrong. Show everyone here that you are 100% justified in saying "I TOLD YOU SO!"

------------------------------------------

Can you demonstrate a single instance in history where incursion by niggers blacks has resulted in excellence, prosperity, or improvement owing to their presence, inventiveness, or disposition?

PSUSA2  posted on  2013-05-13   13:47:24 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#229. To: PSUSA2 (#228)

If you want to know the truth, like I did. Like I did with the holohoax and vaccines and other assorted myths.

You can take the time to figure it out in your own mind using your own resources.

I may be crazy, but I'm not stupid enough to think I can change your opinion against your will.

Take as much time as you like. There's no shortage of it.


"If they can get you asking the wrong questions, they don't have to worry about answers" ~ Thomas Pynchon Gravity's Rainbow

wudidiz  posted on  2013-05-13   14:10:36 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#230. To: wudidiz, every last no-planer here (#229)

nonsense.

If what you claim is true, one average sized post could contain the necessary information, If you think it takes a book to tell your side of the story, all that means is that you think you can bury a bunch of crap and hope no one notices.

That you refuse to do that, and that every no planer here refuses to do that, tells me that you and other no-planers are using this to distract others from finding out what happened on 9/11.

You are full of shit, wud. You and every other no-planer here and elsewhere are full of shit.

I dont know if you and others are disinfo, or just a bunch blithering idiots. In the long run, it doesn't matter, because neither choice is good. Personally I think you are nothing but a bunch of morons, too fucking stupid to have any link to any kind of organized effort.

I gave you all the opportunity, out in the open, to prove your case. None of you had the balls to do so.

------------------------------------------

Can you demonstrate a single instance in history where incursion by niggers blacks has resulted in excellence, prosperity, or improvement owing to their presence, inventiveness, or disposition?

PSUSA2  posted on  2013-05-13   15:12:46 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#231. To: PSUSA2, every last planer here (#230)

What Witnesses?


"If they can get you asking the wrong questions, they don't have to worry about answers" ~ Thomas Pynchon Gravity's Rainbow

wudidiz  posted on  2013-05-13   15:38:02 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#232. To: wudidiz (#231)

Yes, you could feel it. It was a gigantic sonic boom.

jesus fucking christ.

A sonic boom.

I guess when a plane hits a building, it should go "pfft", like a little fart.

------------------------------------------

Can you demonstrate a single instance in history where incursion by niggers blacks has resulted in excellence, prosperity, or improvement owing to their presence, inventiveness, or disposition?

PSUSA2  posted on  2013-05-13   15:46:50 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#233. To: PSUSA2 (#232)

That's it? You're done? Wow you're fast. And so easily satisfied.


"If they can get you asking the wrong questions, they don't have to worry about answers" ~ Thomas Pynchon Gravity's Rainbow

wudidiz  posted on  2013-05-13   16:05:50 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#234. To: wudidiz (#233)

yeah i'm done adios

------------------------------------------

Can you demonstrate a single instance in history where incursion by niggers blacks has resulted in excellence, prosperity, or improvement owing to their presence, inventiveness, or disposition?

PSUSA2  posted on  2013-05-13   16:14:41 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#235. To: PSUSA2 (#234)

Have fun


"If they can get you asking the wrong questions, they don't have to worry about answers" ~ Thomas Pynchon Gravity's Rainbow

wudidiz  posted on  2013-05-13   16:22:49 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#236. To: PSUSA2 (#218)

What is the relevance if these vortices to your ideas of 'no planes'?

Perhaps you have a video of your 'no planes' flying thru smoke? Fire?

FOCUS!

Why are you married to the notion that their must be smoke for the wing vortecies to exists.

And how do you fail to understand.

OK a plane allegedly flew into a building. The plane allegedly exploded. The Wake vortex did not allegedly explode , just the alleged plane.

Now the wake vortex can not explode so that is not in question.

What is in question is how come we do not see the wake vortex slamming into the fireball?

No, their is no video of the 'no planes' not hitting the towers. Asking for such a video is stupidity. Foolishness. You are asking for a video of nothing and loling to yourself. Ha ha ha super funny but not very smart.

You can see the explosion from hundreds of different angles.

YOu never see the wake vortex that should of been following the planes. It should of swirled into the fire ball and resulting smoke.

The plane would of still had a huge wake vortex following it after it crashed... that vortex would of caught up to it and into it.

If a semi truck crashes the trailer he is pulling still has forward momentum.

Just because the planes crash does not negate the forward momentum of the wake vortex.

If those planes were real we would of seen that evidence.

That their is a lack of wake vortex means those planes were most likely not real.

And if you can not understand that it is only because you do not want to understand it.

______________________________________

Suspect all media / resist bad propaganda/Learn NLP everyday everyway ;) (It's a more positive message)

titorite  posted on  2013-05-13   17:32:06 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#237. To: titorite (#236)

Why are you married to the notion that their must be smoke for the wing vortecies to exists.

A) You should learn to spell if you wish to be taken seriously.

B) Nobody said you need smoke to have wing vortices. What was said is that you need smoke or fog to SEE those wing vortices.

C) Explain how wing vortices are formed and what makes them move in a spiral.


"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2013-05-13   17:40:14 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#238. To: FormerLurker (#237)

A) you must be new in that seat

B) the majority here know

c) what happened to the former dude in your seat. He didn't rely on notes so much.

______________________________________

Suspect all media / resist bad propaganda/Learn NLP everyday everyway ;) (It's a more positive message)

titorite  posted on  2013-05-13   17:44:53 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#239. To: titorite (#238)

So you have nothing but nonsensical remarks, and have no intention of giving any sort of honest thought out answers.

It's clear what you're doing here. So are you working the 2nd shift, taking over for wud?


"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2013-05-13   18:00:12 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#240. To: titorite (#236)

Why are you married to the notion that their must be smoke for the wing vortecies to exists.

Where did I say that?

You need something like smoke to see it.

"YOu never see the wake vortex that should of been following the planes. It should of swirled into the fire ball and resulting smoke. "

The fire and smoke exited the building on the opposite site of the impact. Proof is on the videos. (yeah I know they are all fake blah blah blah) So how would a vortex affect that? Don't answer. I don't even want to hear it.

Sayonara. I'm done with your crap too.

------------------------------------------

Can you demonstrate a single instance in history where incursion by niggers blacks has resulted in excellence, prosperity, or improvement owing to their presence, inventiveness, or disposition?

PSUSA2  posted on  2013-05-13   18:18:45 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#241. To: FormerLurker, SKYDRIFTER (#176) (Edited)

BAC to you.

Well chosen words.. LOL

Thing is BAC was MAGNITUDES more intelligent, and infinitely more polite.

BAC to 9/11 truthers ~ "You guys are kooks." He only appeared intelligent because of his sources of info, which was still debunked almost as easily as this no-plane hit the towers stuff is debunked.

God is always good!

RickyJ  posted on  2013-05-13   18:23:48 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#242. To: titorite (#180)

I am also sure wake vortex will follow a plane into a wall.

Huh? What the heck are you talking about? Follow into a wall? Do you know anything about physics? I think not talking like that.

God is always good!

RickyJ  posted on  2013-05-13   18:29:52 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#243. To: FormerLurker (#239)

So you have nothing but nonsensical remarks, and have no intention of giving any sort of honest thought out answers.

It's clear what you're doing here. So are you working the 2nd shift, taking over for wud?

Did I catch you off guard?

______________________________________

Suspect all media / resist bad propaganda/Learn NLP everyday everyway ;) (It's a more positive message)

titorite  posted on  2013-05-13   18:30:52 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#244. To: titorite (#180)

I am also sure wake vortex will follow a plane into a wall.

Follow into a wall! Dumbest comment I have ever seen ever. First of all they don't follow, as in move the direction the plane is moving, they are produced by the plane flying through the air at the wingtips. They can last up to three minutes depending on the wind and other factors. Their force not comparable to the force of an explosion, which would dissipate the vortex immediately. Damn dude, please stop posting your drivel here.

God is always good!

RickyJ  posted on  2013-05-13   19:08:27 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#245. To: SKYDRIFTER, FormerLurker (#179)

Who taught you this sort of "science", Jim Fetzer?

That's a truly prominent name in the "no-planes" issue; another persistent but sore loser. I suspect he still loses sleep every time my name pops up.

Someone recently signed up on 4um with the name Jim Fetzer. I don't know if it is really him or not though. The no-brainers are having a field day here lately. I don't know why they are tolerated honestly, they hurt the movement.

God is always good!

RickyJ  posted on  2013-05-13   19:16:33 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#246. To: RickyJ, SKYDRIFTER, FormerLurker (#245)

To some degree the "no-planers" remind me of militant atheists. It is sort of a self righteous "how dare you believe differently" attitude.

Perseverent Gardener
"“Believe nothing merely because you have been told it. Do not believe what your teacher tells you merely out of respect for the teacher. But whatsoever, after due examination and analysis, you find to be kind, conducive to the good, the benefit, the welfare of all beings - that doctrine believe and cling to, and take it as your guide.” ~ Gautama Siddhartha — The Buddha

Original_Intent  posted on  2013-05-13   19:38:36 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#247. To: Original_Intent (#246) (Edited)

To some degree the "no-planers" remind me of militant atheists. It is sort of a self righteous "how dare you believe differently" attitude.

The militant atheists are trying to justify their beliefs I think, the no-planners are not really trying to justify their beliefs, they are trying to promote their beliefs despite the very high odds they are wrong. Atheists have a lot invested in the justification of their beliefs, if they can't do it then they better seek God fast. A no planner has relatively nothing invested in their beliefs and there are no bad consequences to them if they are wrong. With very high odds they are wrong, and no real need to promote their position as to the progress of the 9/11 truth movement is concerned, then you have to conclude they are either nuts or dinsinfo artists trying to make the 9/11 movement look bad. I think some are just plain nuts, while others push the nuts on and spread disinfo.

God is always good!

RickyJ  posted on  2013-05-13   20:08:16 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#248. To: Original_Intent (#246) (Edited)

To some degree the "no-planers" remind me of militant atheists. It is sort of a self righteous "how dare you believe differently" attitude.

Yeah, ... cause people like gerylmist are real bitches right?

And that wudidiz.. when is he not acting like a prick.

But the worst , that absolute worst is that titorite asshole. I mean he has Tits in his name for crying out loud. Always trying to shake hands and agree to disagree. The stupid little shit stain might be more tolerable if he learned to believe as he is supposed to believe.

How fucking dare that little self righteous asshole right?

______________________________________

Suspect all media / resist bad propaganda/Learn NLP everyday everyway ;) (It's a more positive message)

titorite  posted on  2013-05-13   20:17:41 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#249. To: GreyLmist (#207) (Edited)

Post #220: at 2:05 of that video, Goss says that he got to the office of the Speaker of the House, Dennis Hastert, just as the plane hit the Pentagon; [sic] From that statement about the timing of his arrival at Hastert's office, it can be presumed that the clip of him in a press interview at the beginning of the video (with booming and plane sound effects) was not filmed during the Pentagon attack.

You're assuming Porter Goss is telling the truth.

The Porter Goss that had breakfast with Pakistani general Mahmud Ahmed, the man the FBI says financed flight 77's pilot, Mohammed Atta, on the very morning of 911.

edit add:

Lieutenant General Mahmud Ahmed (HI(M)), is a veteran intelligence officer and a retired three-star general in the Pakistan Army who served as a director general of Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI), the principal intelligence body of Pakistan.

The Porter Goss who was co-author of the Patriot act, and co-chair of the original 911 "investigation".

Aquila  posted on  2013-05-13   20:19:19 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#250. To: Original_Intent, RickyJ, SKYDRIFTER (#246)

To some degree the "no-planers" remind me of militant atheists. It is sort of a self righteous "how dare you believe differently" attitude.

They sure do act like huge drama queens when things don't go their way, that's sort of obvious...

Very impolite drama queens.


"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2013-05-13   22:41:01 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#251. To: RickyJ (#245)

Someone recently signed up on 4um with the name Jim Fetzer. I don't know if it is really him or not though

I posted a few questions for him, he never responded back...


"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2013-05-13   22:50:27 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#252. To: FormerLurker (#251)

I can't imagine him wanting to be seen posting on the same board as you.


"If they can get you asking the wrong questions, they don't have to worry about answers" ~ Thomas Pynchon Gravity's Rainbow

wudidiz  posted on  2013-05-13   22:58:51 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#253. To: wudidiz (#252)

I can't imagine him wanting to be seen posting on the same board as you.

Well no, of course he wouldn't. That, and perhaps he wouldn't want to be associated with the likes of YOU and your little friend.

Ever think about that one?

But no, I'm sure he wouldn't want to risk being shown to be the con man that he really is on a public forum.


"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2013-05-13   23:02:12 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#254. To: RickyJ (#241) (Edited)

BAC to 9/11 truthers ~ "You guys are kooks." He only appeared intelligent because of his sources of info, which was still debunked almost as easily as this no-plane hit the towers stuff is debunked.

Yeah, but the word "kook" is so goofy and tame compared to what's being hurled around here as of late, his mannerisms could be considered respectful and mild mannered in comparison.

He could talk a load of bullshit for days on end, and would always have his massive chunk of cut and paste material which would take forever to read, and THAT was his tactic, he'd simply wear you down hoping that you'd give up.

This new sort of tactic seen as of late is more of a Mad Dog or yukon approach to shilling. Be nasty, insulting, rude, vulgar, etc. to those whom you target, play the victim with high drama, and at the same time kiss up to those you hope to gain something from.

In all honesty I've never seen this level of high drama on a forum.


"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2013-05-14   0:04:24 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#255. To: PSUSA2, FormerLurker, Original_Intent, SKYDRIFTER, *No Planers* (#230) (Edited)

If what you claim is true, one average sized post could contain the necessary information, If you think it takes a book to tell your side of the story, all that means is that you think you can bury a bunch of crap and hope no one notices.

That you refuse to do that, and that every no planer here refuses to do that, tells me that you and other no-planers are using this to distract others from finding out what happened on 9/11.

You are full of shit, wud. You and every other no-planer here and elsewhere are full of shit.

I dont know if you and others are disinfo, or just a bunch blithering idiots. In the long run, it doesn't matter, because neither choice is good. Personally I think you are nothing but a bunch of morons, too fucking stupid to have any link to any kind of organized effort.

I gave you all the opportunity, out in the open, to prove your case. None of you had the balls to do so.

I don't know how you turned a discussion about jet airflow into a work detail for me, PSUSA2, but there are not enough hours in the day for me as it is to keep up with all that I have to do, need or want to do, and then get some sleep too without demands from Planers to return to square one in every single topic of No Planes issues. It's like they all have a memory retention problem about it for some reason. No other side of the 9/11 spectrum is expected to keep starting over and over again in debates as if the only thing anybody knows about No Planes research is to sling slurs at it like trained automatons. There are threads here with hundreds of posts -- video analysis and more -- all for naught with those whose real objective is not discussing or studying it but embattlement, defamation and such. I don't come to 4um to be at war with people. I will gladly talk about the subject of No Planes if someone is sincerely interested in learning and conversing about it but not here in this acrid quagmire anymore. This thread, imo, is about nothing but a lowdown ambush of No Planers and mindboggling misperception management by their opponents. Ironically, SKYDRIFTER describes those tactics to a tee at 4um Title: MIND CONTROL IN THE 21st CENTURY:

the mother of all tactics, "Coercive Persuasion"

Edited next to last sentence.

-------

"They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC

GreyLmist  posted on  2013-05-14   5:45:36 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#256. To: GreyLmist (#255)

at times like this I like those little like buttons or agree buttons or rep buttons.... spelling out one's agreement is cool too. :)

______________________________________

Suspect all media / resist bad propaganda/Learn NLP everyday everyway ;) (It's a more positive message)

titorite  posted on  2013-05-14   5:49:57 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#257. To: titorite (#256)

Thanks for stopping by with that refreshment before I left. L8r all y'all, somewhere else on-board...

-------

"They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC

GreyLmist  posted on  2013-05-14   6:11:37 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#258. To: GreyLmist (#255)

I will gladly talk about the subject of No Planes if someone is sincerely interested in learning and conversing about it but not here in this acrid quagmire anymore.

Much has been made of wing tip vortices. Why? I don't know. Their relevance has never been explained, but evidently it is a key phenomenon.

I personally have gone out of my way in order to understand what the no-planers are talking about. It got me nowhere. And wasted effort tends to piss me off, hence my "acridity".

If you or other no-planers can't distill your ideas into a coherent, reasonably sized post, there is something wrong there. It should not take a book to do this. Just something like "Why I believe there were no planes that hit the towers", and then say WHY you believe this.

When it comes to slur slinging, that started from the no-planers, not me. I'm the one that stayed on topic.

------------------------------------------

Can you demonstrate a single instance in history where incursion by niggers blacks has resulted in excellence, prosperity, or improvement owing to their presence, inventiveness, or disposition?

PSUSA2  posted on  2013-05-14   7:45:42 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#259. To: Original_Intent (#246)

To some degree the "no-planers" remind me of militant atheists. It is sort of a self righteous "how dare you believe differently" attitude.

They don't like people they can't lead by the nose.

Hell, you and I have had our spats. It's not personal. But they take it personally.

------------------------------------------

Can you demonstrate a single instance in history where incursion by niggers blacks has resulted in excellence, prosperity, or improvement owing to their presence, inventiveness, or disposition?

PSUSA2  posted on  2013-05-14   10:09:58 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#260. To: PSUSA2 (#259)

It's not personal. But they take it personally.

I think it is rude for you to speak for other people's feelings. You don't know how they feel.

SilverStorm  posted on  2013-05-14   11:28:00 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#261. To: SilverStorm (#260)

Do you need a tissue?


"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2013-05-14   11:30:22 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#262. To: SilverStorm (#260)

I'm just going off of what they write.

Facts and feelings generally don't mix well.

------------------------------------------

Can you demonstrate a single instance in history where incursion by niggers blacks has resulted in excellence, prosperity, or improvement owing to their presence, inventiveness, or disposition?

PSUSA2  posted on  2013-05-14   11:52:15 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#263. To: titorite, FormerLurker (#166)

confirming that titorite is rustyrale at LP and also registered here as rustyrale before using the titorite moniker.

christine  posted on  2013-05-14   12:58:33 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#264. To: christine (#263) (Edited)

confirming that titorite is rustyrale at LP and also registered here as rustyrale before using the titorite moniker.

I was getting him confused with a different but similar handle, rustynail. That person is nothing at all like "titorite".

In checking on LP, rustyrale signed on LP for one day of "fun", and it happened to be on April Fools Day a few years back.


"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2013-05-14   13:15:10 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#265. To: FormerLurker (#264)

In checking on LP, rustyrale signed on LP for one day of "fun",

Interesting. Some of the things he said, and some of the things he claims I've said, made me wonder if he's playing games here.

Not that it matters to me. I dont see his posts anymore.

------------------------------------------

Can you demonstrate a single instance in history where incursion by niggers blacks has resulted in excellence, prosperity, or improvement owing to their presence, inventiveness, or disposition?

PSUSA2  posted on  2013-05-14   13:44:56 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#266. To: All, SKYDRIFTER (#249) (Edited)

some pretty good speculation about when this Porter Goss mini press conference actually took place:

1) Capitol Hill evacuation began as soon as 9:48 (see History Commons, 9:48 a.m. September 11, 2001: Capitol Building Evacuated due to Reports of Approaching Plane, but Evacuation Is Chaotic)
All sources report that the atmosphere at Capitol Hill after the Pentagon was hit was frantic, with congressmen, staffers, journalists and even tourists rushing to the streets around the House and the Capitol Police screaming very loudly to evacuate (see CNN transcripts, 9/11 2001). Also, it should be noted that the Capitol Police had had "word that an airplane is heading this way and could hit the building anytime." (Dana Bash quote on original page)

Question. Is such a frantic and chaotic scenario compatible with what we see in the footage? Is that apparently peaceful and uneventful setting (at least until the blast at 0:20 is heard) what you would expect to see at 10:10 AM? (edit-10:10AM is when the damaged section of the Pentagon collapsed)

2) Two tourists are clearly visible in Porter Goss' footage
Two young girls with a backpack are clearly visible during Porter Goss' interview. They show up on the left behind Porter Goss at around 0:07-0:08 (one is wearing glasses), then both show up again for some frames on his right (at around 0:10-0:11) before disappearing. No doubt they are tourists.

Question. Is it plausible that two young tourists would be still visiting the House at 10:10, apparently calmly and walking at their leisure, almost 25 minutes after the Capitol evacuation began and when the Capitol Police was frantically ordering people to leave the House because another plane was expected to hit the building within minutes?

3) A guard is clearly visible in the footage
A guard appears on the background for almost the whole lenght of the footage. He paces calmly and does not appear as someone who's nervously trying to evacuate hundreds of people due to an upcoming plane possibly hitting the building.

Question. Is the behavior of this guard compatible with the 10:10 expected scenario?

4) No smoke visible, no sirens audible
After 9:37 smoke was clearly visible from Capitol Hill. There are many reports about this, here are some:

QUOTE DANA BASH, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Tony. And that's right, it was especially the attack on the Pentagon that immediately affected the people in the building, inside the Capitol, because the Pentagon is probably about two miles that way, behind the Capitol, and senators and staffers who were in meetings inside the Capitol could actually see the smoke billowing up from across the river at the Pentagon.

Question. While one could speculate that smoke is not visibile in Porter Goss' interview possibly due to the location of the interview (what can be easily proven as false, but let's forget about this detail for a moment), then why no sirens are audible during the clip as we would expect in a 10:10 AM scenario? Again, is the footage setting actually compatible with what we would expect to see and hear at Capitol Hill at 10:10?

All the above information and facts point to an earlier scenario than 10:10 AM, whereas 9:37 appears to me as the most probable.

So, which conflicting facts could possibly rule out a 9:37 scenario? The first is the Congressional Record of the House, from which we know that at 9:52 Goss was the House speaker pro tempore:(House record at webpage)

a) Please note that 9:52 is well 15 minutes after 9:37. What did prevent Goss to be outside of the building at 9:37 giving an interview and being two floors up inside the Capitol building at 9:52? There would have been all the time for him to do that.

b) Also, how can you explain that Goss and other people would gather just outside the building at 10:10 AM to give an interview when all people had long been evacuated and the word had spread that another plane could possibly hit the building? Is it plausible?

The second conflicting "fact" is the statement of Goss himself in the BBC documentary. In my opinion, his own statement does not prove that he was really inside the building at the time of the Pentagon attack. Along with the possibility he's lying (which I would not completely dismiss at all in the case of Porter Goss), I can also speculate that his recollections may be inaccurate or overlapping (for example he didn't associate the blast heard during the interview to the moment when the Pentagon was allegedly hit by Flight 77). While one could object that I am only speculating (which is basically true), I could reply that assuming Goss was giving an interview just outside the building at 10:10 AM in such an unplausible and unexpected setting in a location that had begun to be evacuated 25 minutes before under the upcoming threat of another plane hitting the building is probably a bigger and bolder speculation.

CONCLUSION

While no conclusive evidence of the flyover can in any case be drawn from the low pass jet noise we hear in the footage, facts and other sources do not rule out completely the possibility that Goss' interview took place at 9:37.

In fact, there are plenty of reasons to question that the footage scenario is compatible with what we would expect to see at 10:10 AM.

Full Version + More theories:

http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/lofiversion/index.php?t21402.html

Aquila  posted on  2013-05-14   17:54:07 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#267. To: GreyLmist (#255)

I will gladly talk about the subject of No Planes if someone is sincerely interested in learning and conversing about it but not here in this acrid quagmire anymore.

Thank you, because I am sick of seeing it around here.

God is always good!

RickyJ  posted on  2013-05-14   18:14:14 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#268. To: FormerLurker, SilverStorm (#261)

Do you need a tissue?

LOL! You hurt me little feelings, bahhh, bahh bahh. I how dare you insert logic into this debate, can't you see the "invisible wings" reappearing at 19 seconds into the video? LOL!

And those wake vortexs, why didn't they follow that plane into the wall? LOL! For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction, they don't follow a plane, they move away from a plane in the opposite direction from the plane while decreasing in altitude until they dissipate. Yet they jump all over something they don't even understand and say this proves no planes at the towers when it only proves they are easily fooled.

God is always good!

RickyJ  posted on  2013-05-14   18:23:55 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#269. To: GreyLmist (#113)

Pyrotechnic pixie dust is what Steven Jones, Niels Harrit and others claim blew the towers down.

Are you now claiming that explosive devices do not exist and that they are the stuff of fairytales?

So again, where is your proof that NOTHING struck the WTC towers on the morning of 9/11/2001, contrary to what thousands of people witnessed who were outside watching the event live?

What sort of "pixie dust" created the aircraft shaped holes in each tower?


"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2013-05-14   19:15:53 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#270. To: RickyJ (#268)

And those wake vortexs, why didn't they follow that plane into the wall? LOL! For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction, they don't follow a plane, they move away from a plane in the opposite direction from the plane while decreasing in altitude until they dissipate. Yet they jump all over something they don't even understand and say this proves no planes at the towers when it only proves they are easily fooled.

Yep. Not one of them can even describe how the vortices are formed, what makes them "swirl", nor what sort of forces are at work..

Nor do they realize that if things were as they say (that these vortices have a mind of their own and actually FLY through the air at speeds similar to that of the jet which formed them), that airplanes would be flipped over by their own vortices once they slowed down to land. Flight would be impossible.


"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2013-05-14   19:25:12 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#271. To: FormerLurker (#270)

Nor do they realize that if things were as they say (that these vortices have a mind of their own and actually FLY through the air at speeds similar to that of the jet which formed them), that airplanes would be flipped over by their own vortices once they slowed down to land. Flight would be impossible.

That made me laugh. I never thought of it that way.

NOt just slowing down for landing, but slowing down for anything would have that effect.

Imagine how adventurous it would be to fly if that was the case. Planes would be disposable and everyone would need an ejector seat.

------------------------------------------

Can you demonstrate a single instance in history where incursion by niggers blacks has resulted in excellence, prosperity, or improvement owing to their presence, inventiveness, or disposition?

PSUSA2  posted on  2013-05-14   19:36:05 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#272. To: titorite, PSUSA2 (#212)

The vortcies created by planes do indeed have a forward momentum. If they did not they could not be created in the first place. Forward is part of the spin in regards to the vortex.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wingtip_vortices

BTW, did you ever bother reading even the 1st sentence of the 1st link that you posted, or did you not understand the very clear wording of what is there?

From http://en.wikipedia.org/wi ki/Wingtip_vortices

Wingtip vortices are circular patterns of rotating air left behind a wing as it generates lift

Do you know what the words "LEFT BEHIND" mean? Do you not know that the word vortice (plural of the word vortex) is used to describe a circular flow? It does not mean a forward traveling flow, it means a ROTATING flow.

Try looking things up, and if necessary, have someone else read it to you...

Vortex


"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2013-05-14   19:44:58 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#273. To: PSUSA2 (#271)

Imagine how adventurous it would be to fly if that was the case. Planes would be disposable and everyone would need an ejector seat.

If you could find anyone willing to fly knowing that they'd have to eject in order to get out.


"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2013-05-14   19:46:45 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#274. To: FormerLurker (#272)

titorite and wud were playing silly games. I got sick of it, and sick of them.

I dont bozo people I disagree with. but these 2 just weren't capable of any kind of intelligent discussion. I dont trust anything they say.

------------------------------------------

Can you demonstrate a single instance in history where incursion by niggers blacks has resulted in excellence, prosperity, or improvement owing to their presence, inventiveness, or disposition?

PSUSA2  posted on  2013-05-14   19:50:21 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#275. To: PSUSA2 (#274) (Edited)

these 2 just weren't capable of any kind of intelligent discussion

I dont trust anything they say.

Neither do I. It's as if logic and reason are poison and they avoid it at all cost.

The insults, accusations, name calling, proclamations of "superior intelligence and knowledge", the "I have friends here, you don't" mentality, the victimhood, all of that crap really gets sickening very quickly, especially when it comes from someone who hasn't yet mastered 4th grade grammar and spelling.


"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2013-05-14   20:02:41 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#276. To: titorite (#212)

The vortcies created by planes do indeed have a forward momentum. If they did not they could not be created in the first place. Forward is part of the spin in regards to the vortex.

You might want to stop embarrassing yourself here.

Since you have shown no ability to grasp simple physics here are live video demonstrations of vortices for you.

God is always good!

RickyJ  posted on  2013-05-14   20:19:49 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#277. To: RickyJ (#276)

Since you have shown no ability to grasp simple physics here are live video demonstrations of vortices for you.

I'm sure he'll still insist they were "following" the plane... LOL


"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2013-05-14   20:27:31 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#278. To: RickyJ (#276)

You might want to stop embarrassing yourself here.

Since you have shown no ability to grasp simple physics here are live video demonstrations of vortices for you.

This is one reason why I asked you to agree to disagree with me RickyJ.

Why are you taking the snarky tone with me?

Whats more, I am correct. I have a proper grasp on the aerodynamics involved and the laws of physics.

I find it shocking that so many just can not or will not understand some pretty basic shit...

I mean when you do facepalm your hand drags wind , that wind continues impacting the back of your hand for a few moments even though your hand stopped at your forehead.

The wings of a plane drag alot more wind and make awesome wake vortex. When a car is parked too close to a landing strip the wake vortex could pull it over and over end over end.

IGNORANCE BEGETS TYRANNY

Don't attack me, I can do a better job at it then you can, I know all my flaws and failures. Instead of focusing on me , why not prove where the observable wake vortex is in the fireballs.

Because that is all anyone has to do.

If it is real and there , point it out.

______________________________________

Suspect all media / resist bad propaganda/Learn NLP everyday everyway ;) (It's a more positive message)

titorite  posted on  2013-05-14   21:46:49 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#279. To: FormerLurker (#270)

Nor do they realize that if things were as they say (that these vortices have a mind of their own and actually FLY through the air at speeds similar to that of the jet which formed them), that airplanes would be flipped over by their own vortices once they slowed down to land. Flight would be impossible.

Your statement betrays your ignorance.

You obviously have not seen the dozens of dozens of hits one gets from a search engine on flipped planes due to wake vortex turbulence.

It happens.

Thats why air traffic control is there to help guide the planes and keep that from happening.

And you would already know all that if you had spent even an iota of attention and a moment of time researching some of this stuff for yourself... rather than refuting anything anyone has to say about it blindly and ignorantly.

....

For real tool, you should do a google first next time.

______________________________________

Suspect all media / resist bad propaganda/Learn NLP everyday everyway ;) (It's a more positive message)

titorite  posted on  2013-05-14   21:52:21 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#280. To: titorite, RickyJ (#278)

Whats more, I am correct. I have a proper grasp on the aerodynamics involved and the laws of physics.

I find it shocking that so many just can not or will not understand some pretty basic shit...

You DO seem to think very highly of yourself for some unknown reason, but that doesn't mean you're smart.

It simply means you really ARE quite dense.


"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2013-05-14   23:32:38 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#281. To: titorite (#279)

Your statement betrays your ignorance.

You obviously have not seen the dozens of dozens of hits one gets from a search engine on flipped planes due to wake vortex turbulence.

Hey Einstein, what part of IF "these vortices have a mind of their own and actually FLY through the air at speeds similar to that of the jet which formed them), that airplanes would be flipped over by their own vortices once they slowed down to land. Flight would be impossible. " do you fail to understand?

If a plane were to slow down to land, the vortices would catch up to the plane and flip it, right?


"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2013-05-14   23:34:35 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#282. To: titorite (#279)

And you would already know all that if you had spent even an iota of attention and a moment of time researching some of this stuff for yourself... rather than refuting anything anyone has to say about it blindly and ignorantly.

You really are a hoot. Are you practicing to be a comedian?

Or are you truly some sicko who projects exactly what he's doing at the moment onto others, and doesn't even realize he's doing it?

Have you ever sought help?


"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2013-05-14   23:40:36 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#283. To: titorite, RickyJ, PSUSA2 (#278)

The wings of a plane drag alot more wind and make awesome wake vortex

So they "drag wind", eh?

No. The wings PASS THROUGH AIR and cause differing air pressure between the stream of air going over the top of the wing and that passing under the wing.

The two streams of air pressure collide past the rear of the wing and create vortices due to the differing air pressures.

The vortices spin but do not move forward, and stop forming once there is no more airflow.

Stop embarassing yourself and look it up.


"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2013-05-14   23:58:31 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#284. To: FormerLurker (#283) (Edited)

LOL... Thats right cyber commando.

Wind drag is not a real thing, whatever you say.... LOL

______________________________________

Suspect all media / resist bad propaganda/Learn NLP everyday everyway ;) (It's a more positive message)

titorite  posted on  2013-05-15   0:03:19 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#285. To: titorite (#284) (Edited)

LOL... Thats right cyber commando.

Wind drag is not a real thing, whatever you say

A plane does not "drag wind", as you stated earlier. Wind is moving air.

Drag is experienced by the aircraft as it passes through air, but a plane does not drag air like a truck drags a trailer behind it.

Did that clear it up for you?


"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2013-05-15   1:06:23 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#286. To: titorite (#284)

BTW, did you go back and read what vortices are, or are you still putting that off?


"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2013-05-15   1:08:01 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#287. To: titorite (#284) (Edited)

Oh and BTW, drag is resistance to motion experienced by the aircraft due to the friction between it and the air that it is passing through, and that caused by the turbulance (leading to vortices in fact) formed by the differing air pressures passing over and under the wing creating lift.

Thought I'd clear that up for you too, in case you're interested.


"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2013-05-15   1:16:24 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#288. To: FormerLurker (#287) (Edited)

Disinformationanlists typically do this kind of three for one responding.

Oh And thank you for arguing against your previous point in post 283.

______________________________________

Suspect all media / resist bad propaganda/Learn NLP everyday everyway ;) (It's a more positive message)

titorite  posted on  2013-05-15   3:03:52 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#289. To: titorite (#288)

Disinformationanlists typically do this kind of three for one responding.

Uh huh. You should know all about what they do since you're one of them obviously. Some people think you're just a bat shit crazy dumb shit.

I think you're just pretending to be one.

Anyways, I had three different thoughts to post which you could independently respond to if you so chose, instead, you decided you're not going to respond to ANY with any degree of intelligence or effort, which is quite typical of a shill.

Oh And thank you for arguing against your previous point in post 283.

It's also obvious you can't tell the difference between what YOU claim, a plane "dragging wind", and a plane EXPERIENCING drag caused by movement through air.

Perhaps you should at least go try to get a GED, if you're capable, which is doubtful if you really ARE as stupid as you appear to be.

It's painfully apparent you have no idea what vortices are, what drag is, and are unable to perform the least demanding mental exercise such as picturing what would happen if what you said were true, that these vortices are chasing planes through the sky. You are seemingly incapable of following the thought of what would happen when the plane slowed down.

I know you can't understand the concept of lift and what creates it, and are absolutely ignorant of ANY laws of physics, although you love to toss buzz words around with no understanding whatsoever as to what they mean.

So what motivates you? Is it you just love to troll, or is there some sort of profit to be had?


"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2013-05-15   3:27:52 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#290. To: FormerLurker (#286)

BTW, did you go back and read what vortices are, or are you still putting that off?

They're experts. They don't need to read such things.

They have a thought. They think "if I thought it, it must be true"

Therefore, a link they post must have the same true information, so why bother reading it?

------------------------------------------

Can you demonstrate a single instance in history where incursion by niggers blacks has resulted in excellence, prosperity, or improvement owing to their presence, inventiveness, or disposition?

PSUSA2  posted on  2013-05-15   7:28:40 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#291. To: PSUSA2 (#290)

They're experts. They don't need to read such things.

They have a thought. They think "if I thought it, it must be true"

How they ever gained a following is a mystery to me.


"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2013-05-15   13:00:37 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#292. To: Aquila (#219)

The video is quite clear that the Pentagon "event" happened much sooner than the jet noise.

There is no "viable" aircraft evidence at the Pentagon; there is overwhelming physical evidence that the purported 757 crash is 100% fake - to the last tangible detail.

SKYDRIFTER  posted on  2013-05-15   16:58:46 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#293. To: titorite, FormerLurker (#210)

The titboy is a coward! Obviously a very young one; radically over-impressed with himself.

I guess it does take all kinds.


SKYDRIFTER  posted on  2013-05-15   17:04:01 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#294. To: FormerLurker (#21)

You and your brethen have the burden of PROVING that all the witnesses are liars, actors, scumballs, etc. including all of the thousands of bystanders, news crews, police, EMTs, firemen, families of the hijacked aircraft's victims, airport personnel, air traffic controllers, etc. etc.

There was enough testimony from firefighters and at least one maintenance worker that didn't fit. They were not subpoenaed and their video accounts have been completely ignored by officialdom.

The fact that the most heinous crime on American soil was not treated as crime, but was immediately entrained into a war agenda is enough reason to erect gallows. As those who know are marched out some will no doubt start talking to avoid delivery into Satan's waiting arms.

No one lost their job or was otherwise fingered for any dereliction of duty. And firefighters' remains were scooped up and delivered to a dump site to keep the project moving ahead.

We Americans have forfeited our right to honesty and truth in govt. Our indifference to that horror on 9/11 is the evidence of that.

HOUNDDAWG  posted on  2013-05-15   17:43:26 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#295. To: HOUNDDAWG (#294) (Edited)

I don't think you understand my point. It is quite obvious that 9/11 was an inside job, and it is ALSO quite obvious that the attacks were not the work of Hollywood nor some other studio fabricating live video coverage in real time.

The WTC towers WERE struck by aircraft, planes WERE hijacked that morning and most likely flown to clandestine locations, with the passengers and crew disposed of one way shape or form.

Military aircraft such as KC-767 tankers were most likely used to actually carry out the attacks, and that IS supported by more than a few witnesses who stated that the aircraft appeared to be military planes with no windows.


"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2013-05-15   17:48:05 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#296. To: HOUNDDAWG (#294)

If you're not aware of what the "no-planer" theory is all about, you may want to read the following link...

Saboteurs Attacking The 9/11 Truth Movement: The No-WTC-Planes/Video-Fakery/Energy-Beams Disinformation Gang


"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2013-05-15   17:58:26 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#297. To: FormerLurker (#295)

I'm okay with that.

But, those of us in the five percentile cannot set things right when surrounded by cowardly collaborators, the ninety percentile who would rather jail us (as jurors) than accept the unpleasant truth about their govt. Given the choice between losing sleep after accepting the obvious or, labeling us as criminal fringe as the means of suppressing their nightmares which do you believe they'd choose?

HOUNDDAWG  posted on  2013-05-15   18:03:18 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#298. To: FormerLurker (#296)

If you're not aware of what the "no-planer" theory is all about, you may want to read the following link...

Oh, but I am.

But it's just one of many pieces of evidence that were summarily buried to convert this criminal mass murder to a political tool for profit and power.

The fact that a plane supposedly wandered the friendly skies for over an hour without intercept (a first in US civil aviation history) is evidence of something terribly amiss.

So, there are countless reasons to stop, reset and begin again long before the planes allegedly struck. If we proceeded in an orderly manner with a proper criminal investigation the question about the planes would likely be answered before we ever reached the time of impact in the chronology of events.

HOUNDDAWG  posted on  2013-05-15   18:10:48 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#299. To: HOUNDDAWG (#298) (Edited)

So, there are countless reasons to stop, reset and begin again long before the planes allegedly struck. If we proceeded in an orderly manner with a proper criminal investigation the question about the planes would likely be answered before we ever reached the time of impact in the chronology of events.

True, but good luck with that. Any mention of a criminal investigation into 9/11 is met with derision and eye rolls, and all they need to do is point at the "no- planes" theory and say "see, we TOLD you those people are nuts", dismissing the MOUNTAINS of VALID questions, facts, and documented evidence which destroys the "official story" concerning 9/11.

It is an ongoing crime, where those who have intimate knowledge of the events are actively covering up the facts, destroying evidence, and protecting the guilty.

Now to change people's minds and garner support for a fresh investigation with access to ALL evidence, don't you think it'd be wise to avoid making claims based on illogical and improbable theories, conjecture, falsified evidence, and junk science?


"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2013-05-15   18:28:07 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#300. To: All (#299) (Edited)

To think they could say two planes hit the buildings when everyone there sees no planes hit the buildings is giving the government powers they do not have. Also it would be very risky if those with their camcorders recording the first tower being hit to also record video of the second tower just exploding with no plane hitting it and then sharing that video on the Internet. Many people owned camcorders in late 2001, how would the government explain all these videos of nothing hitting the towers and them exploding? They couldn't really unless they could prove they were all fake. It is not that hard to use military state of the art laser guided equipment to get a smart bomb to hit its target, so it would be even easier to get an airplane to hit its target with the same technology.

God is always good!

RickyJ  posted on  2013-05-15   18:51:09 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#301. To: RickyJ (#300)

It is not that hard to use military state of the art laser guided equipment to get a smart bomb to hit its target, so it would be even easier to get an airplane to hit its target with the same technology.

That and drone technology has been around for quite some time.

But yes, why roll the dice and risk having documented video evidence of explosions at the entrance holes with no plane entering the building? There surely would have been an abundance of those videos on YouTube if that had happened, yet there aren't ANY at all.


"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2013-05-15   19:16:07 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#302. To: SKYDRIFTER (#292)

The video is quite clear that the Pentagon "event" happened much sooner than the jet noise.

Could you explain how you come up with that theory?

In that video, which pretty clearly happens *after* the towers were hit in NYC- and before ANY event at the pentagon, there is an explosion immediately before the jet noise. If the "event" happened "much sooner" why are people acting as if there is nothing out of the ordinary -locally?

I am convinced that that one short clip of Goss is one of the most important clips from the whole day- no matter how one interprets it. Whatever that explosion is, and the jet noise- from whatever jet- is a key that unlocks more doors and raises new questions. And it's not Military Jet noise, as the video shows that all military planes were 10 minutes away- which is by itself pretty clear evidence of something VERY wrong, as they knew that a plane was not responding to radio and was heading that way.

Aquila  posted on  2013-05-15   20:06:33 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#303. To: FormerLurker (#301) (Edited)

drone technology has been around for quite some time.

since 1984, publicly

Over a series of 14 flights... the (Remote Control BOEING 720) aircraft made approximately 69 approaches, to about 150 feet (46 m) above the prepared crash site.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Controlled_Impact_Demonstration

if Remote tech was that good in 1984, just imagine how good it must have been in 2001

Good enough to hit the antenna on the top of WTC, probably better

Aquila  posted on  2013-05-15   20:12:58 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#304. To: Aquila (#303)

if Remote tech was that good in 1984, just imagine how good it must have been in 2001

Good enough to hit the antenna on the top of WTC, probably better

Most certainly. It IS the most likely scenario, due to it's relative simplicity and ease of implementation.

Being that more than a few of the alleged hijackers are alive to this day (or were just several years ago), we know THEY didn't fly those planes.


"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2013-05-15   20:41:26 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#305. To: RickyJ (#300)

everyone there sees no planes hit the buildings

what do you think happens at 28:34? Fakery? Did BBC do some bluescreen here?

Aquila  posted on  2013-05-15   20:42:03 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#306. To: Aquila, FormerLurker, SKYDRIFTER (#303)

And you all make very good points.

Throw in that the Air Traffic Controllers tracked the aircraft, and were subsequently put under a gag order that has not yet been lifted, and it builds a reasonably strong case against the "no-planes" disinfo plant.

As well William Rodriguez, who blew the whistle on bombs going off in the towers before the plane impact, nevertheless provides indirect confirmation of actual plane impacts as that is his reference in saying that there were explosions in the basement before impact. In short he noticed the impact and the shudder that went through the building.

Perseverent Gardener
"“Believe nothing merely because you have been told it. Do not believe what your teacher tells you merely out of respect for the teacher. But whatsoever, after due examination and analysis, you find to be kind, conducive to the good, the benefit, the welfare of all beings - that doctrine believe and cling to, and take it as your guide.” ~ Gautama Siddhartha — The Buddha

Original_Intent  posted on  2013-05-15   21:04:07 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#307. To: All (#305)

just found incredible footage of plane hitting WTC from a different angle at 54:54:

Aquila  posted on  2013-05-15   21:26:08 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#308. To: Aquila (#305)

LOL! You obviously misread my comment. I am not a no planner.

God is always good!

RickyJ  posted on  2013-05-15   22:36:49 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#309. To: FormerLurker (#299)

Now to change people's minds and garner support for a fresh investigation with access to ALL evidence, don't you think it'd be wise to avoid making claims based on illogical and improbable theories, conjecture, falsified evidence, and junk science?

Your question is somewhat colored and likely to incite, my friend.

The fact that so much is left to the imagination (in the absence of known forensic protocols and proper investigations) is not something I'm prepared to lay at the doorsteps of those who strive to fill in the blanks.

How can anyone accurately gauge the quality of others' opinions since all we've been fed is bullshit propaganda? The fact that numerous ongoing SEC and other criminal investigations were conveniently terminated as a result of bldg 7 is certainly enough to aggravate my neuroses. And, when speculating about the worst possible explanations involving govt conspiracies I simply apply DAWGGIE'S RAZOR: Pick out the most heinous and depraved from the list and we'd likely be shocked by the truth because decent folk are by their very natures precluded from attributing enough blame or evil to our overlords in rebellion.

To put it another way, we don't have souls black enough to intuit just how evil the 9/11 architects really are. This would also include weapons developed in secret and used that day because we the fleeced are the enemy....

So, if you're looking for a moderate and sensible ally to inject calm reflection when discussing the possibilities then I'm no good for that. I admit that I want to believe the worst about the shadowy men behind the curtain.

There are some pathologies so deviant that we can't hope to understand them. It's like trying to dig where murdering cannibals are coming from. Unless we share their impulses their motivations will remain mysteries to us.

HOUNDDAWG  posted on  2013-05-15   23:53:20 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#310. To: HOUNDDAWG, FormerLurker (#309)

The fact that so much is left to the imagination (in the absence of known forensic protocols and proper investigations) is not something I'm prepared to lay at the doorsteps of those who strive to fill in the blanks.

While I agree that there is a lot that has been left open we do have a core of data that is, if not quantifiable in all cases, is of sufficient strength and corroboration from multiple data points as to legitimately demand a full and proper investigation (which we will not get with current corrupt regime) without going out on a limb and championing a theory that relies upon individual interpretation of a hand full of videos - some of which are very shaky.

I would agree that there is a strong likelihood that there was some sort of "exotic" technology used in controlling the collapse of the twin towers. However, the evidence is inconclusive, but the way the buildings crumbled into microfine dust suggests the use of either a sonic weapon or a Tesla derived scalar beam. However, if those exist they are so buried in secrecy not even CONgress would be allowed to have knowledge of their existence. However, there are a variety of leaks, innuendoes, and rumors which suggest that such technology does exist in the way above Top Secret world.

However, so far as the nuts and bolts of 911 are concerned we have more than enough solid data without risking our credibility on questionable data.

Perseverent Gardener
"“Believe nothing merely because you have been told it. Do not believe what your teacher tells you merely out of respect for the teacher. But whatsoever, after due examination and analysis, you find to be kind, conducive to the good, the benefit, the welfare of all beings - that doctrine believe and cling to, and take it as your guide.” ~ Gautama Siddhartha — The Buddha

Original_Intent  posted on  2013-05-16   2:11:36 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#311. To: PSUSA2 (#290) (Edited)

They're experts. They don't need to read such things.

They have a thought. They think "if I thought it, it must be true"

Therefore, a link they post must have the same true information, so why bother reading it?

No no no...

You see some of the ignorant folks here are acting like baboons.

Uba gooba monkeys.

If dee pwane that flys threw da air disappears the wind stank following it dissappered toos

ignorance.

Fucking ignorance.

Their is no reverse in flight.

If the planes crashes the wind vortex the was following it follows it right into the crash.

That you refuse to understand that makes you ignorant!

I believe you can understand it.

Just like you can understand the safe guard put into the microchips and processing boards of the commercial aircraft top prevent reaching max speeds in low (improper) altitudes. That is because the mere act of high speed low altitude flight can shake apart a commercial air liner. It is an idiot proof. Just in case a passenger has to fly it , he wont be able to throttle to max speed at low altitude (ideally). The circuit board limitation was over come on all four planes.

One of the many irregularities of the day.

Like how the remaining flights escaped radar so well despite being singled out in the sky ,after air traffic was grounded.

And if I ever gave a link it was to help pull you out of your ignorance.

But if you wanna act like a stupid fucking monkey and shit on educational links offered and generally refuse every attempt to uplift you educationally while clinging to your ignorance like a small man of limited means ... fuck it. Can't save everybody.

Just saying, educate yo'self fo.

______________________________________

Suspect all media / resist bad propaganda/Learn NLP everyday everyway ;) (It's a more positive message)

titorite  posted on  2013-05-16   3:08:42 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#312. To: titorite (#311)

If the planes crashes the wind vortex the was following it follows it right into the crash.

That you refuse to understand that makes you ignorant!

You keep repeating a lie. That makes you a liar.

God is always good!

RickyJ  posted on  2013-05-16   4:07:29 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#313. To: RickyJ (#312)

You keep repeating a lie. That makes you a liar.

That is awfully rude. Lots people have been studying 9/11 since it's inception as a false flag operation.

Boston is not the only false flag.

Haven't seen much talk so far about OKC.

SilverStorm  posted on  2013-05-16   4:30:06 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#314. To: Original_Intent (#310) (Edited)

While I agree that there is a lot that has been left open we do have a core of data that is, if not quantifiable in all cases, is of sufficient strength and corroboration from multiple data points as to legitimately demand a full and proper investigation (which we will not get with current corrupt regime) without going out on a limb and championing a theory that relies upon individual interpretation of a hand full of videos - some of which are very shaky.

I would agree that there is a strong likelihood that there was some sort of "exotic" technology used in controlling the collapse of the twin towers. However, the evidence is inconclusive, but the way the buildings crumbled into microfine dust suggests the use of either a sonic weapon or a Tesla derived scalar beam. However, if those exist they are so buried in secrecy not even CONgress would be allowed to have knowledge of their existence. However, there are a variety of leaks, innuendoes, and rumors which suggest that such technology does exist in the way above Top Secret world.

However, so far as the nuts and bolts of 911 are concerned we have more than enough solid data without risking our credibility on questionable data.

My compliments on a linear, logical and well reasoned treatment of the primary rub here.

However, I'm inclined to grant latitude to theories that you may be reluctant to internalize, or to simply reject as lacking credibility. Under the circs (an open rebellion by our leaders and the mass murder of thousands) I cannot pass judgement on any offerings simply because, if our members can visualize it you can bet that the evil ones behind the obscene events of Sept. Eleventh have also. They may be working with tools that we can scarcely imagine such as reversed engineered alien technology which invalidate our understanding of physics, and those seemingly incredible offerings could be closer to the truth than we know.

Those horned demons approached this massive and ghastly undertaking with supreme confidence, as if they have the comedy team of Klaatu and Gort in reserve should we challenge their serial whoppers.

When pondering revolution we assume that conventional means will be employed by both factions, and that may not be the case. In short, just because I don't know how fake planes can be recorded doesn't automatically preclude that possibility. I defy anyone to show me the evidence to the contrary because we've let the bastards skate on the gruesome deaths they wrought on thousands of our fellow human beings. Bush and Condi playing the shy debutantes, refusing to testify unless they were not sworn, and the further condition that they would act as a tag team? And this after Bush unsuccessfully attempted to kill the commissions and then to seat Henry The Fixer as the chair?

I suppose I could ponder some of the out there theories and join you in your skepticism, but that would involve commencing the investigation somewhere in the murky middle. And, I'm holding out for a thorough airing of the evidence starting at the beginning.

For instance, did the premiums for the billion dollar (sic) insurance policies on the twins consume the monthly lease receipts? If so, why would any savvy real estate mogul do that unless he knew it was for only six months? I'm sure he leased them as a corporation thereby insulating his personal assets in the event of a massive earthquake that destroyed the buildings owned by the port authority.

And, what changes have been made to structural steel building codes since plane-proof towers crumbled into talc, with the steel broken into convenient 20 ft sections for hauling on flatbeds?

No, we can spend the first year just squeezing the weasel, and we may have the answers we need if we begin at the beginning and relentlessly pursue one lying bastard. When it's concluded we may have yet another resentful enemy agent whose hidden anger at the US "for our treatment of Israel" is finally offered as mitigation when sentenced. (like Pollard) That would leave every other player including Giuliani naked and possibly seeking asylum in a country with no extradition treaty. (Israel)

And once the threat of retaliation is absent our scientists and logicians may open the floodgates of truth and offer that which has been conspicuously missing for 12 years.

HOUNDDAWG  posted on  2013-05-16   6:38:33 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#315. To: titorite (#311)

You see some of the ignorant folks here are acting like baboons.

Uba gooba monkeys.

But if you wanna act like a stupid fucking monkey and shit on educational links offered and generally refuse every attempt to uplift you educationally while clinging to your ignorance like a small man of limited means ... fuck it. Can't save everybody.

Yes, and you are a prime example. So do you know what a vortex is yet?


"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2013-05-16   10:54:42 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#316. To: SilverStorm (#313)

Lots people have been studying 9/11 since it's inception as a false flag operation.

Yeah, and so what?

That doesn't mean every scatter brain with his own wild assed fairytale to spin is a "9/11 researcher", it only means that some people like to troll online forums and stir up trouble.


"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2013-05-16   10:56:18 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#317. To: RickyJ (#312)

You keep repeating a lie. That makes you a liar.

Now he's calling it a "wind vortex" instead of a wing vortex. Thing is he doesn't know the difference between air, wind, and has no clue as to what a vortex is.

Then he pretends he's a professor. Too bad he doesn't bother reading his own links, which state pretty much the opposite of what he's posting.


"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2013-05-16   11:10:35 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#318. To: titorite (#311)

Their is no reverse in flight.

If the planes crashes the wind vortex the was following it follows it right into the crash.

That you refuse to understand that makes you ignorant!

By golly you have done it! You have proven that there were no planes hitting the towers! Bravo!

There is no reverse in flight. Fucking BRILLIANT! You did it! Congratulations! You have single-handedly saved the republic! You're a hero!

There is no reverse in flight. Wow. It was so simple, right in front of my eyes the entire time, but it took an educated person like yourself to point it out to ignorant little ol' me.

Thank you! You are a credit to the human race. I shall sing your praises until the last breath on the day I die!

------------------------------------------

Can you demonstrate a single instance in history where incursion by niggers blacks has resulted in excellence, prosperity, or improvement owing to their presence, inventiveness, or disposition?

PSUSA2  posted on  2013-05-16   11:16:01 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#319. To: PSUSA2 (#318)

Too bad he can't figure out what would happen if he were right, that planes are constantly being chased by these vortices.

It's beyond his comprehension what would happen once a plane were to slow down, that if there were a high speed stream of air (his superduper wind vortex or whatever he's currently naming them) traveling as fast as the plane HAD been traveling prior to slowing down, the vortex would catch up with the plane and flip it around like a rag doll.

But HE'S the scientist here. Yeah, JUNK SCIENTIST.


"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2013-05-16   11:34:05 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#320. To: HOUNDDAWG (#309) (Edited)

To put it another way, we don't have souls black enough to intuit just how evil the 9/11 architects really are. This would also include weapons developed in secret and used that day because we the fleeced are the enemy....

It really isn't all that complicted. Those who control world banks and governments, who wish to literally take over the world, eliminating a bunch of "useless eaters" and using the rest as slave labor, have NO qualms murdering 3000 people.

They instigated wars of profit and adventure which have killed millions and maimed more.

Many of those killed and maimed are civilians; men, women, and children who were going about their daily routine till they came upon a checkpoint manned by a bunch of trigger happy punks who have no qualms blowing their heads off for sport, or were having dinner in their home while some "brave" lad sitting in Nevada was playing with a video game type console which unfortunately controlled a Predator drone armed with Hellfire missiles.

It's not that difficult to see the evil if one opens his eyes.


"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2013-05-16   12:53:39 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#321. To: Original_Intent (#246)

To some degree the "no-planers" remind me of militant atheists. It is sort of a self righteous "how dare you believe differently" attitude.

On the order of attending to bigotry:

"I detest bigots; they should all be arrested and executed!"

SKYDRIFTER  posted on  2013-05-16   16:49:09 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#322. To: Aquila (#302)

9-11 is loaded with illogical 'stuff.' Examining the impossible and extremely improbable is the core approach to the truth.


SKYDRIFTER  posted on  2013-05-16   16:57:24 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#323. To: FormerLurker, PUSA2, SKYDRIFTER, Any other ignorant cuss I may of missed. (#319)

Too bad he can't figure out what would happen if he were right, that planes are constantly being chased by these vortices.

Do not wallow in ignorance like former lurker.

Because that is EXACTLY what happens, these Vortices's ARE constantly following planes.

That is exactly correct.

That is why planes are staggered at take off and landing.

They can not follow one another to close or else a plane will get swept up in the wake vortex.

Wallowing in ignorance begets tyranny. Educate yourself.

______________________________________

Suspect all media / resist bad propaganda/Learn NLP everyday everyway ;) (It's a more positive message)

titorite  posted on  2013-05-16   17:19:11 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#324. To: FormerLurker (#320)

have NO qualms murdering 3000 people.

You push 3000 like the jews push 6 million.

______________________________________

Suspect all media / resist bad propaganda/Learn NLP everyday everyway ;) (It's a more positive message)

titorite  posted on  2013-05-16   17:22:42 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#325. To: titorite (#323)

these Vortices's ARE constantly following planes. ... That is why planes are staggered at take off and landing. ... If the planes crashes the wind vortex the was following it follows it right into the crash.

Non sequitur

------------------------------------------

Can you demonstrate a single instance in history where incursion by niggers blacks has resulted in excellence, prosperity, or improvement owing to their presence, inventiveness, or disposition?

PSUSA2  posted on  2013-05-16   17:32:16 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#326. To: titorite (#323)

Do not wallow in ignorance like former lurker.

Because that is EXACTLY what happens, these Vortices's ARE constantly following planes.

That is exactly correct.

Are you here to prove exactly how stupid you are? Are you too lazy to even peek at the link you posted from Wiki concerning wing vortices, or to look at the one I posted for you describing what a vortex is?

Do you care at all about vortices, or are you here just to troll?

That is why planes are staggered at take off and landing.

They can not follow one another to close or else a plane will get swept up in the wake vortex.

What part of they don't chase the planes because they have no forward velocity don't you understand? Sure they exist, nobody is disputing that. They DO NOT travel forward however, and if you had any intelligence at all you'd understand why.

Wallowing in ignorance begets tyranny. Educate yourself.

You must love tyranny then.


"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2013-05-16   17:42:48 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#327. To: titorite (#324)

You push 3000 like the jews push 6 million.

Huh? Are you now saying people didn't die in those towers on 9/11? Are you going to tie 9/11 in with the Holocaust now?

You truly are a nutjob.


"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2013-05-16   17:44:48 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#328. To: HOUNDDAWG, Original_Intent (#298)

If we proceeded in an orderly manner with a proper criminal investigation the question about the planes would likely be answered before we ever reached the time of impact in the chronology of events.

You'd think, eh?


"If they can get you asking the wrong questions, they don't have to worry about answers" ~ Thomas Pynchon Gravity's Rainbow

wudidiz  posted on  2013-05-16   18:12:41 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#329. To: FormerLurker, PSUSA2, titorite (#326) (Edited)

Do you care at all about vortices, or are you here just to troll?

Do you? The real issue on that subject isn't titorite and whether he believes correctly or not about it. That's like a smoke obscurant tactic for the real question: Would the smoke from the buildings have reached the point where the vortices might still be present outside the burning buildings -- not just at the WTC but at the Pentagon too -- or would the vortex trails have dissipated/been dispersed completely by the explosions before then? If the smoke reached a point where the vortices should still be present for some minutes or however long, smoke swirl would have been noticeable, I would think.

I generally don't discuss that aspect of 9/11 investigations because that's about all I know about it, basically, other than that the jet stream over the highway at the Pentagon would likely have flipped some vehicles [in the official scenario] but didn't. I'm not posting this to discuss planes vs. no planes here with raging plane-gatekeepers. Just wanted to try and bring the vortices issue into clearer focus.

Edited for bracketed insert in paragraph 2 and spelling changes in paragraph 1.

-------

"They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC

GreyLmist  posted on  2013-05-16   18:54:59 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#330. To: GreyLmist (#329)

Do you? The real issue on that subject isn't titorite and whether he believes correctly or not about it. That's like a smoke obscurant tactic...

...Just wanted to try and bring the vortices issue into clearer focus.

I doubt he's interested in bringing anything "into clearer focus"


"If they can get you asking the wrong questions, they don't have to worry about answers" ~ Thomas Pynchon Gravity's Rainbow

wudidiz  posted on  2013-05-16   19:04:29 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#331. To: GreyLmist (#329) (Edited)

Do you? The real issue on that subject isn't titorite and whether he believes correctly or not about it. That's like a smoke obscurant tactic for the real question

He's the one who brought it up in post 1 of this thread, and he's the one who gets all sloppy rude when people try to help him out with actual info on vortices.

Would the smoke from the buildings have reached the point where the vortices might still be present outside the burning buildings -- not just at the WTC but at the Pentagon too -- or would the vortices trail have dissipated/been dispersed completely by the explosions before then?

Let's forget about the Pentagon for the purpose of this discussion, since for one there is no ACTUAL video of the aircraft striking the Pentagon in the public domain, if any exists at all.

As far as the WTC, I am not aware of any videos of the 2nd crash which display smoke in the direction of the approach, at least not immediately after the crash.

Vortices stop forming once air stops moving over the wings, and their persistance depends on many factors, some of which are temperature, air pressure, and resistance to airflow caused by the environment such as adjacent buildings. I would also think the explosive force of the fireballs would have pushed air outwards towards the vortices thus causing them to breakup.

I won't pretend to have the equations in hand to calculate how long they would have persisted, but I would logically assume that they would dissipate within several minutes at most.

But that's all besides the point GL. Not only would it be virtually impossible to produce an ongoing live action video with inserted fabricated events in real time, but the people on the ground and watching it unfold live would have noticed that what they were seeing was not what was being broadcast around the world as actual live footage.


"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2013-05-16   19:15:20 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#332. To: GreyLmist (#329)

I'm not posting this to discuss planes vs. no planes here with raging plane-gatekeepers.

I'm not a "raging plane gatekeeper". The only ones raging are some of the the no-planers.

All I am saying is that those that claim no planes hit the towers, they better explain it better than has been "explained" here on this thread. There have been NO explanations of this; just assertions. Assertions without proof are nothing but crap.

Watch the vids of the 2nd impact. The flame and debris exited from the side of the building opposite the impact. So, how would any vortex affect this? The only way it could is if the vortex carried clear thru the building and out the other side where the smoke and flames were located. This idea seems to be a key point in the no-planers ideas on what happened. It has been stated here that the vortices continue to travel FORWARD independently of a planes motion (or the lack of motion). I call bullshit on this. This requires proof, not assertions.

------------------------------------------

Can you demonstrate a single instance in history where incursion by niggers blacks has resulted in excellence, prosperity, or improvement owing to their presence, inventiveness, or disposition?

PSUSA2  posted on  2013-05-16   19:16:00 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#333. To: wudidiz (#330)

I doubt he's interested in bringing anything "into clearer focus"

Well troll, it's most obvious you aren't interested in clearing anything up, rather you are here to obscure things and muddy the waters.


"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2013-05-16   19:16:56 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#334. To: FormerLurker, wudidiz (#333)

All you did there was prove his suspicion right, FL. Try again.

-------

"They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC

GreyLmist  posted on  2013-05-16   19:21:15 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#335. To: GreyLmist, PSUSA2, RickyJ (#334) (Edited)

All you did there was prove his suspicion right, FL. Try again.

So now you're resorting to your tried and proven technique of attacking a person's character rather than address the logical and factual response I just replied to you with, right?

As far as wud, are you his wife? I think he can speak for himself here, and you need not chastise me for responding to him in kind after his rather snarky comment towards me.

You and your crew really do behave like drama queens, crying like rape victims after kicking someone in the nuts for no reason.


"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2013-05-16   19:28:33 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#336. To: PSUSA2 (#332)

The only ones raging are some of the the no-planers.

I disagree.

All I am saying is that those that claim no planes hit the towers, they better explain it better than has been "explained" here on this thread. There have been NO explanations of this; just assertions. Assertions without proof are nothing but crap.

Rather than clutter the board with a rearguing from the beginning, there are several long 4um threads on 9/11, soon before the Sandy Hook controversy, that have much explanatory info and evidence presented by no planers. One is a video playlist by me titled "9-11 Anthology - No Planes and Media Fakery Research +", if you'd rather not do a lot of tedious reading.

Watch the vids of the 2nd impact. The flame and debris exited from the side of the building opposite the impact. So, how would any vortex affect this? The only way it could is if the vortex carried clear thru the building and out the other side where the smoke and flames were located. This idea seems to be a key point in the no-planers ideas on what happened. It has been stated here that the vortices continue to travel FORWARD independently of a planes motion (or the lack of motion). I call bullshit on this. This requires proof, not assertions.

The vortices aspect is not a key point with most no planers, afaik. I'm not concerned about whether or not they travel forward. My concern is whether or not the smoke reached the point where traces of the vortices might still be lingering outside of the buildings.

-------

"They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC

GreyLmist  posted on  2013-05-16   19:43:13 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#337. To: FormerLurker (#335)

You and your crew really do behave like drama queens, crying like rape victims after kicking someone in the nuts for no reason.

Yep. They love drama. And where there is no drama, they'll create it out of nothing. They behave like little girls.

Both of us are focused on facts. They are focused on I don't know what.

------------------------------------------

Can you demonstrate a single instance in history where incursion by niggers blacks has resulted in excellence, prosperity, or improvement owing to their presence, inventiveness, or disposition?

PSUSA2  posted on  2013-05-16   19:45:51 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#338. To: GreyLmist (#336)

My concern is whether or not the smoke reached the point where traces of the vortices might still be lingering outside of the buildings.

Did it?

I dont care about other threads. They're probably as screwed up as this one is. It shouldn't take that much effort to present your case. Or someone present their case, not just you. Although you seem to be a little more reasonable than a couple of others here.

------------------------------------------

Can you demonstrate a single instance in history where incursion by niggers blacks has resulted in excellence, prosperity, or improvement owing to their presence, inventiveness, or disposition?

PSUSA2  posted on  2013-05-16   19:50:05 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#339. To: FormerLurker (#335)

Strike two, FL. Three strikes and I think we can be sure that you're not really interested in clearer focus on the vortices issue. No, I am not his wife. Why don't you and your crew quit degrading no planers if you don't want to be critically critiqued? Why do you seem to think that only planers can converse together permissably about their opponents and as derogatorily as they want to? Like I noted at Post #113: The point that personalized attacks were blatantly inserted into this thread was your post at #21, FL.

-------

"They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC

GreyLmist  posted on  2013-05-16   20:15:55 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#340. To: PSUSA2 (#337)

Both of us are focused on facts. They are focused on I don't know what.

They are focused on discrediting those who disagree with the official 9/11 fairytale and who post legitimate facts and scientific proofs concerning the events of that day.

They also spew whatever is flowing out of Jim Fetzers bowels at that point in time.


"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2013-05-16   20:49:32 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#341. To: GreyLmist (#339)

Strike two, FL. Three strikes and I think we can be sure that you're not really interested in clearer focus on the vortices issue.

Wow, just wow. YOU divert the thread into mudslinging with the help of your little partner, and even AFTER I remind you that I responded to your post in a polite and factual manner, which you ignored, you continue to accuse ME of what you are yourself guilty of.

Another master of projection. I suppose that's part of what being a "no-planer" is all about isn't it.

Have a "partner" sling mud or make snide comments, then when said person is called on his behavior, you act the part of the victim, get all indignant, and claim that PROVES that you were right all along.

No wonder people view "no-planers" as a bunch of whackjobs, it's because you ARE.


"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2013-05-16   20:54:22 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#342. To: GreyLmist (#339)

It's readily apparent you aren't here to "discuss" ANYTHING, you are here to act like a huge drama queen. Are you going to act like an adult, stay out of other people's affairs, and have a polite conversation, or are you just here to provoke people and sling mud?


"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2013-05-16   20:57:00 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#343. To: PSUSA2, titorite (#338)

My concern is whether or not the smoke reached the point where traces of the vortices might still be lingering outside of the buildings.

Did it?

I don't know but think that's what the real issue in question is rather than titorite.

I dont care about other threads. They're probably as screwed up as this one is. It shouldn't take that much effort to present your case. Or someone present their case, not just you. Although you seem to be a little more reasonable than a couple of others here.

I could contest who's been more unreasonable without provocation but let's not debate that. Just in this thread, I posted a half-hour video at #34 that you could view as an introduction about the No Planes issue for beginners. I noted too at #35 and elsewhere here that there is tangible evidence that alleged Flt. 11 didn't fly in New York that day. I also stated at #30 that there is evidence that alleged Flt. 77 didn't fly at the Pentagon that day. I mentioned there: unidentifiable scraps, mismatched plane parts, suspect audio and film, and conflicting testimonies. Additonally, there is other evidence about the registration numbers of alleged 9/11 planes staying activated; as well as MSM video analysis that indicates real planes weren't used. I don't know what else you think I should say or present to make a short summary of the No Planes investigation but, if all that wasn't good enough at the time or now to show sound cause for our research in that direction, what would suffice for you? Kind of makes my point that only No Planers are expected to keep starting over and over again as if others are unaware of anything about the subject in all these years beyond reflexively attacking and dismissing it.

I don't want to debate this subject further in this ambush thread but don't mind discussing it elsewhere with those whose motivations aren't defamation and such. One of my main concerns is the possibility of black marketeering in dual-use plane parts because of the alleged 9/11 planes largely disappearing in the scenarios with scant traceable evidence, if any. That and the other points I've highlighted here again are more than sufficient reasons, in my view, for No Planes research to be taken even more seriously than speculation about remote control -- or at least as seriously valid a field of 9/11 investigation as that. For now, I'll repeat what I said at #30: If there is one thing you can be completely sure of about the No Planes investigation without working through any of the evidence, it's that it is the one theory which can't possibly be planted disinfo. It exists by virtue of the fact that the alleged planes essentially vanished in the storylines

-------

"They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC

GreyLmist  posted on  2013-05-16   21:52:09 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#344. To: FormerLurker (#342)

Stay out of other people's affairs? But you sure didn't. You reached 3 strikes 2 posts ago without addressing the actual vortices issues in reply, FL. Constant repetition of your trigger-word charges, projectionist spins and deflections only shows why you can't be reasoned with on these topics.

-------

"They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC

GreyLmist  posted on  2013-05-16   22:11:55 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#345. To: GreyLmist (#343)

Just curious, what is the no plane theory as to what appears in the video in post #305 at 28:34 and in post 307 at 54:54?

These "no plane" and "yes plane" wars seem silly. No one reading this was there, we all have to interpret it differently. Maybe some of what the "planers" say is right and some of what the "no planers" say is right and it all has to be put together.

I take it both sides just want the truth in the end, why be divided and conquered?

Aquila  posted on  2013-05-16   22:23:34 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#346. To: Aquila, *9-11*, *No Planers* (#345)

what is the no plane theory as to what appears in the video in post #305 at 28:34 and in post 307 at 54:54

As I've posted before in this thread, all the videos of alleged planes on 9/11 are archived here:

killtown.911review.org/2nd-hit.html

These have been analyzed by no planers and the no plane theory is that all the videos of planes hitting a building on 9/11 are fake.


"If they can get you asking the wrong questions, they don't have to worry about answers" ~ Thomas Pynchon Gravity's Rainbow

wudidiz  posted on  2013-05-16   22:54:47 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#347. To: Aquila (#345) (Edited)

Just curious, what is the no plane theory as to what appears in the video in post #305 at 28:34 and in post 307 at 54:54?

28:34 at #305: that clip does not actually show a plane striking the building but the suggestion of a plane impact after it went behind the building and then an explosion is seen that is attributed to the plane impacting. The alleged 2nd plane strike is shown in other MSM broadcasts with different trajectories and claims of making turns but that clip depicts a level and unswerving flight path. They can't all be true just because they were MSM clips.

54:54 at #307: a plane crashing into a steel framed building is not what is shown there. What is shown is a plane gliding into a building with no damage on entrance from resistance or even slowing down. Not likely.

These "no plane" and "yes plane" wars seem silly. No one reading this was there, we all have to interpret it differently. Maybe some of what the "planers" say is right and some of what the "no planers" say is right and it all has to be put together.

I take it both sides just want the truth in the end, why be divided and conquered?

Good question that I think you should ask FL and company instead of me. It's odd, imo, that they are so hostiley divided against us since they and most people here are No Planers too of varying degrees: 25%...50%...75%...100% -- depending on how many planes they suspect weren't used that day: at the Pentagon, in Shanksville and in New York at the WTC.

If you could ask whatever planes/no planes questions you might have for me in a different thread hereafter, I'd appreciate it. Just wanted to comment here today about the vortices issue.

Edited for highlighting.

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"They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC

GreyLmist  posted on  2013-05-16   23:25:16 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#348. To: FormerLurker (#331) (Edited)

Me: Would the smoke from the buildings have reached the point where the vortices might still be present outside the burning buildings -- not just at the WTC but at the Pentagon too -- or would the vortices trail have dissipated/been dispersed completely by the explosions before then?

FL: Let's forget about the Pentagon for the purpose of this discussion, since for one there is no ACTUAL video of the aircraft striking the Pentagon in the public domain, if any exists at all.

Sorry, I missed this post by you at #331 and thought your first reply was at #333.

Let's not forget about the Pentagon in the vortices discussions because the official conspiracy theory is that a plane flew into it, regardless of opinions that something else (like a missile -- not a Boeing) was shown in the reported parking lot camera frames.

FL: As far as the WTC, I am not aware of any videos of the 2nd crash which display smoke in the direction of the approach, at least not immediately after the crash.

Would be odd, imo, if there was no smoke displayed as exiting the building, in the direction of the approach, soon after the alleged 2nd crash.

FL: Vortices stop forming once air stops moving over the wings, and their persistance depends on many factors, some of which are temperature, air pressure, and resistance to airflow caused by the environment such as adjacent buildings. I would also think the explosive force of the fireballs would have pushed air outwards towards the vortices thus causing them to breakup.

Most of the explosive force was inside the buildings, according to the official stories, so I would think there might still be some vortices lingering in the nearby areas.

FL: I won't pretend to have the equations in hand to calculate how long they would have persisted, but I would logically assume that they would dissipate within several minutes at most.

I think what is needed are measurements of time and distance as the smoke moves in the direction of the alleged flight paths where vortices might be expected to still be present for some minutes after the purported explosions that were largely within the buildings.

FL: But that's all besides the point GL.

No, that's exactly the point, FL. This is beside the point:

FL: Not only would it be virtually impossible to produce an ongoing live action video with inserted fabricated events in real time, but the people on the ground and watching it unfold live would have noticed that what they were seeing was not what was being broadcast around the world as actual live footage.

Posted in another thread: EXERCISES INCLUDED MOCK TV NEWS REPORTS

Edited for formatting.

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"They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC

GreyLmist  posted on  2013-05-17   0:30:29 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#349. To: wudidiz (#346) (Edited)

These have been analyzed by no planers and the no plane theory is that all the videos of planes hitting a building on 9/11 are fake.

Really, you don't use logic, you just look at videos edited after the fact and say, NO PLANES! LOL! Please, the disinfo agents WANT you to believe such nonsense. Too many witnesses saw the planes for the government to have any chance to try to pull a stunt like this, and it makes no sense since it would have been so easy for them to make a plane hit its target. No need to fake anything, the real thing is always better anyway.

God is always good!

RickyJ  posted on  2013-05-17   0:38:14 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#350. To: PSUSA2 (#325)

Non sequitur

Like hell, you just don't like the truth in front of your face so you'd rather believe some bullshit lie FL is peddling.

Honestly, you know a bit about trucking yeah?

You know a bit about nascar and drafting too right?

And it is that lead wind pulling the car behind it that extra 20% faster... that is a wake.

http://www.howstuffworks.com/auto-racing/nascar/nascar-basics/nascar-drafting.htm

Now I suspect you know all this and that if you weren't so hell bent on proving others wrong to the point of ignoring what they say ,you might not even be here. Since you are here please please please

POINT OUT THE EVIDENCE OF WAKE VORTEX IN 911

If it is there and I am wrong and you all are right then you can point it out to me in the resulting fire ball.

Where is it?

Point it out to me.

______________________________________

Suspect all media / resist bad propaganda/Learn NLP everyday everyway ;) (It's a more positive message)

titorite  posted on  2013-05-17   0:41:36 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#351. To: SilverStorm (#313)

That is awfully rude.

It much ruder to keep repeating a lie and then defend a liar. Are you a liar too?

God is always good!

RickyJ  posted on  2013-05-17   0:42:49 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#352. To: titorite (#350)

POINT OUT THE EVIDENCE OF WAKE VORTEX IN 911

It is behind the plane as you have been told numerous times, but you just don't listen! Damn dude, give it a rest already!

God is always good!

RickyJ  posted on  2013-05-17   0:45:02 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#353. To: RickyJ (#349)

IF you are going to argue this RickyJ do so honestly with out the attitude. Be better than me. Strive to be as civil as GreyLmist.

And ask yourself why is FL so freaking vile to GreyLmist when she has been nothing but the height of civil.

We can disagree peacefully. She proves that. But lurker... He is vile to her...

just vile.

Their is no call for it and it disgusting on his part. I am uncivil to those that are not civil with me... But GreyL... She turns the other cheek and for her politness she has to suffer the slams and slurs of FL.

Their is no call for it.

His parents obviously need to re-educate him on morality.

It is on thing to disagree. It is quite another to do so like a jew.

Yall aint jews.

We aint palistinians.

Quit yalls fucking shit and play fucking nice for christ sake... if not with me then at least,. (For the love of GOD) please play nice with those that are treating you nice.

Their is just no call for it.

______________________________________

Suspect all media / resist bad propaganda/Learn NLP everyday everyway ;) (It's a more positive message)

titorite  posted on  2013-05-17   0:48:19 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#354. To: RickyJ (#352)

It is behind the plane as you have been told numerous times, but you just don't listen! Damn dude, give it a rest already!

It goes where the planes go.

Their is no reverse in flight.

And the air it is dragging does not magically turn off !!!if the plane crashes

You can not show it to me?

Come one man. I have spent tens of thousands of hours watching and rewatching 911 vids. I am sure you have too. If the wake vortex is there then you can show it to me.

______________________________________

Suspect all media / resist bad propaganda/Learn NLP everyday everyway ;) (It's a more positive message)

titorite  posted on  2013-05-17   0:50:42 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#355. To: titorite (#353)

If you are going to keep on lying then why are you here? You don't understand physics at all and we are all laughing at you dude. You suck at this trolling.

God is always good!

RickyJ  posted on  2013-05-17   0:54:13 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#356. To: titorite (#354)

And the air it is dragging does not magically turn off !!!if the plane crashes

You dumb, dumb, it is not dragging any air. LOL!

God is always good!

RickyJ  posted on  2013-05-17   0:55:13 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#357. To: titorite (#353)

I am uncivil to those that are not civil with me... But GreyL... She turns the other cheek and for her politness she has to suffer the slams and slurs

I wear a cyber-helmet with a faceguard. :)

-------

"They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC

GreyLmist  posted on  2013-05-17   1:25:18 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#358. To: titorite, RickyJ (#354) (Edited)

And the air it is dragging does not magically turn off !!!if the plane crashes

Hey professor, the air is not dragged along for a ride, it flows OVER and UNDER the wings of the aircraft. When the two airstreams meet wake vortices are formed.

They are LEFT BEHIND the aircraft, they have no forward motion, they are simply formed by the aircraft as it passes through air.

When the plane STOPS moving through air, vortice are no longer created, and they sink and dissipate. They do NOT move forward unless the WIND is pushing them in that direction.

The wind that day was moving in the OPPOSITE direction so the WIND would have swept those vortices AWAY from the WTC.


"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2013-05-17   1:26:42 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#359. To: GreyLmist (#348)

So Ms. Einstein, do you have anything intelligent to say or are you just going to personally attack me?


"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2013-05-17   1:27:54 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#360. To: RickyJ, EVERYONE HELP ME ON THIS USING TERMS HE CAN UNDERSTAND!?!?! (#355) (Edited)

If you are going to keep on lying then why are you here? You don't understand physics at all and we are all laughing at you dude. You suck at this trolling.

Well fuck you too then.

I thought we had met at a cross roads. Shaken hands and buried a hatchet.

I guess you better change your mind about Sandy hook and Boston. Because you know I and the others all think those were CGI TV fakery false flags too. Complete with actors.

In fact I think that one actor might be at all three events. But that is a theory.

For my guessings and theories you act like a scum bag calling me a liar saying I do not understand the physics while you yourself fail to prove any understanding of it nor an ability to show me what you argue must of been present.

....

You say the plane does not drag air.

Did you want me to say "disturbed" the air instead?

It amounts to the same thing. Friction. We don't live in a vacuum.

Cars drag or "disturb" the air too.

That is why when one runs over a plastic bag , even though it is the only car on the road for miles, one might see the wind wake it was pulling , continue to roll the bag end over end.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jVlbJJO_4gA

Their is no bag in that video. Instead a dude drives a car through smoke.

After he exits the smoke , some of the smoke follows the car.

It is not magical smoke.

It is because the car was going fast enough to drag some air behind it. Pulling the smoke.

Now that car is driving faster than the smoke and leaves the vicinity of the smoke in seconds.

HOWEVER the smoke continued to move forward.

that is because

THEIR IS NO FUCKING REVERSE IN FUCKING FLIGHT

and the forward moving air current will continue to move forward.

and the larger and faster you are the more air one will drag or "disturb" .

A litte air doesn't go very far.

ALOT OF AIR SHOULD BE EASY TO POINT OUT TO ME ON ANY NUMBER OF VIDEOS.

So why haven't you done that yet?

______________________________________

Suspect all media / resist bad propaganda/Learn NLP everyday everyway ;) (It's a more positive message)

titorite  posted on  2013-05-17   1:37:50 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#361. To: titorite, *9-11* (#360)

Well fuck you too then.

Ah, the "no-planes" science professor proves his point, using the very sort of scientific, educated, insightful, and eloquent manner of speech which won him his standing in the "no-planes" community.

It's a tough act to follow, but thanks to titorite, the beat goes on.


"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2013-05-17   1:41:19 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#362. To: FormerLurker (#359)

So Ms. Einstein, do you have anything intelligent to say or are you just going to personally attack me?

#348

Are you sure that you read that post before asking me that attack question? Is there something particular that you consider unintelligent there?

-------

"They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC

GreyLmist  posted on  2013-05-17   1:41:59 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#363. To: titorite (#360) (Edited)

THEIR IS NO FUCKING REVERSE IN FUCKING FLIGHT

Did you just figure that one out?

and the forward moving air current will continue to move forward.

So no matter how many scientific references to the contrary, no matter how many ways it's explained to you, you simply CAN NOT UNDERSTAND what a vortex is, nor can you get it in your head THEY DO NOT MOVE FORWARD, THEY SIMPLY ROTATE.

Other than stomping your feet like a little girl, do you have ANY scientific reference which states wing vortices MOVE FORWARD rather than simply FORMING BEHIND THE AIRCRAFT.


"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2013-05-17   1:46:43 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#364. To: FormerLurker, Everyone (#358)

Hey professor, the air is not dragged along for a ride, it flows OVER and UNDER the wings of the aircraft. When the two airstreams meet wake vortices are formed.

They are LEFT BEHIND the aircraft, they have no forward motion, they are simply formed by the aircraft as it passes through air.

When the plane STOPS moving through air, vortice are no longer created, and they sink and dissipate. They do NOT move forward unless the WIND is pushing them in that direction.

The wind that day was moving in the OPPOSITE direction so the WIND would have swept those vortices AWAY from the WTC.

NLP should not be used in this way... Those that try to use it as a manipulative weapon will not go very far.

Because people like me are here to scream at everyone else to learn your tricks.

You're trying to manipulate people with suggestive fonts and contexts.

Your marked words.

OVER,UNDER,LEFT BEHIND, STOPS,NOT,WIND,OPPOSITE,WIND,AWAY,WTC are more than mere emphasis.

They are dirty DIRTY tactics of the insecure and low brow... Those that can not prove it lie about or manipulate it so that people think contrary. Not today Lurker.

Go take a break.

______________________________________

Suspect all media / resist bad propaganda/Learn NLP everyday everyway ;) (It's a more positive message)

titorite  posted on  2013-05-17   1:52:22 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#365. To: FormerLurker (#363)

No no no, after a short break , I think we should remain on this issue. Until you relent to the god law of the universe for the love of god man, slap yo face and take break already.

______________________________________

Suspect all media / resist bad propaganda/Learn NLP everyday everyway ;) (It's a more positive message)

titorite  posted on  2013-05-17   1:53:44 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#366. To: FormerLurker (#358)

Yep, the vortices would have not lasted long in a strong wind either. I just had to laugh at his comment of the plane "dragging wind" along. If it did drag air behind it then it wouldn't go very fast, it would be like a parachute behind it slowing it down. They make planes to be as aerodynamic as they can to create as little air resistance as they can so the plane can use as little jet fuel as possible. Titorite seems to think they make planes to drag air. LOL!

God is always good!

RickyJ  posted on  2013-05-17   1:58:42 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#367. To: RickyJ (#366) (Edited)

Ask sky drifter.

Fuck that.

Ask lead.and.lag.

______________________________________

Suspect all media / resist bad propaganda/Learn NLP everyday everyway ;) (It's a more positive message)

titorite  posted on  2013-05-17   1:59:26 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#368. To: lead.and.lag (#367) (Edited)

Ping asshole.

do a former drunk a favor and read over the previous few comments and share with us some insight. if not a video or two of your own.

Gods honest truth , you explained helicopters wonderfully.

______________________________________

Suspect all media / resist bad propaganda/Learn NLP everyday everyway ;) (It's a more positive message)

titorite  posted on  2013-05-17   2:01:40 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#369. To: titorite (#360)

ALOT OF AIR SHOULD BE EASY TO POINT OUT TO ME ON ANY NUMBER OF VIDEOS.

I see a lot of air rushing out of that building in the jet-fuel fireball explosion, do you see that too? That explosion created a lot of force. That force would have immediately dissipated any nearby vortex. Duh! Try thinking for once tit instead of repeating what idiots in the no plane community keep pushing.

God is always good!

RickyJ  posted on  2013-05-17   2:04:10 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#370. To: GreyLmist (#348)

Let's not forget about the Pentagon in the vortices discussions because the official conspiracy theory is that a plane flew into it, regardless of opinions that something else (like a missile -- not a Boeing) was shown in the reported parking lot camera frames.

You want to see a vortex effect? Have you ever seen videos of St Maarten Airport, St Martin?

Do you see any vortices in this video?

Or this one?


"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2013-05-17   2:05:44 ET  (1 image) Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#371. To: RickyJ (#366)

Titorite seems to think they make planes to drag air. LOL

Yeah, like trucks drag trailers or how boats drag water behind them, according to professor tit at least.


"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2013-05-17   2:07:15 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#372. To: RickyJ (#369)

All we have is time.

Unless you know a pilot or can quote what you are saying... cause I can get quotes, give links, do vids, and now hopefully a drunk pilot will be sober and useful and kind for a moment.

If you think you can get skydrifter here faster to over look the last few comments about "disturbed" or "dragged" air.... maybe ask him if the car in the video had a wake that pulled the smoke behind it.

slower than a bullet and faster than 200 MPH

oh yeah, find me a JPL expert now!

______________________________________

Suspect all media / resist bad propaganda/Learn NLP everyday everyway ;) (It's a more positive message)

titorite  posted on  2013-05-17   2:10:15 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#373. To: titorite (#364) (Edited)

NLP should not be used in this way... Those that try to use it as a manipulative weapon will not go very far.

OVER,UNDER,LEFT BEHIND, STOPS,NOT,WIND,OPPOSITE,WIND,AWAY,WTC are more than mere emphasis.

They are dirty DIRTY tactics of the insecure and low brow...

Are you schizophrenic? I have no clue what you mean by NLP, and I really don't care to hear an explanation. But you sound like you're either ACTING like a psycho, or you ARE one.

Get some help before you end up hurting someone, including yourself, if you ARE a real person, rather than someone ACTING a certain way to garner support from those he's bamboozled.


"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2013-05-17   2:11:30 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#374. To: FormerLurker (#370)

A 4 engine plane with its flaps down at that height not pushing any water or sand.

Sure dude.

photoshop is not your best talent.

Take a break already. You've earned one.

______________________________________

Suspect all media / resist bad propaganda/Learn NLP everyday everyway ;) (It's a more positive message)

titorite  posted on  2013-05-17   2:19:36 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#375. To: titorite (#374)

A 4 engine plane with its flaps down at that height not pushing any water or sand.

Hey slick, did you bother checking the videos? Do you think other people won't?

Watch them and point out the vortices. Show me Mr. Science Professor, I'd really like to know where they are...


"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2013-05-17   2:23:43 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#376. To: titorite (#372)

All we have is time.

No, I don't have time to waste on a stupid troll like you. Get lost dude!

God is always good!

RickyJ  posted on  2013-05-17   2:25:18 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#377. To: RickyJ (#376)

No, I don't have time to waste on a stupid troll like you. Get lost dude!

I would rather be found than lost.

And when others are lost I think it is on us to look after the black sheep. Lord knows christ would. Just saying.

Anyways I think you are lashing out a bit overtly.

______________________________________

Suspect all media / resist bad propaganda/Learn NLP everyday everyway ;) (It's a more positive message)

titorite  posted on  2013-05-17   2:28:37 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#378. To: FormerLurker (#375)

Hey slick, did you bother checking the videos? Do you think other people won't?

Watch them and point out the vortices. Show me Mr. Science Professor, I'd really like to know where they are...

Why do you need anything pointed out to you? Prove you watched it instead of asking others to give you recaps. After a moment of reflection.

______________________________________

Suspect all media / resist bad propaganda/Learn NLP everyday everyway ;) (It's a more positive message)

titorite  posted on  2013-05-17   2:30:21 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#379. To: Original_Intent, Lod (#378)

This stuff reminds me of someone arguing about the color of the sky.

One person says the sky is blue, another says No you are wrong it is green. Then yet another steps up and says what are you talking about it is red. and on and on till some one steps up and tells them all

" IT is all of those colors because of the refraction and division of light "

and then everyone arguing about colors all band up to bitch about this asshole with theories of "refractions" and " divusions" ...what could he know, he didn't even give a sky color.

Meh... thought the metaphore apt.

______________________________________

Suspect all media / resist bad propaganda/Learn NLP everyday everyway ;) (It's a more positive message)

titorite  posted on  2013-05-17   2:36:04 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#380. To: titorite (#378) (Edited)

So you will NEVER admit you're wrong, no matter WHAT sort of proof you're given, right?

Why SHOULDN'T we consider you to be a shill? What logic or wisdom have you displayed here? Are you going to claim you are right still, or will you concede that you were wrong?

If you weren't trying to claim that people who prove you wrong are actually "lovers of tyranny" and all the other lurid accusations you've hurled, you'd at least appear to be just one confused little guy.

But you go on the attack and repeat lie after lie after lie, hoping that if you repeat it enough people will begin to believe it.


"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2013-05-17   2:37:38 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#381. To: FormerLurker (#370)

Do you see any vortices in this video?

Or this one?

No. Should I? What's your point? That there's no such thing as wind vortices in St. Martin? I wouldn't expect to see the vortices unless there was smoke or clouds in their path and those planes aren't flying nearly as fast as the alleged 9/11 planes so that might be a factor too in visibility conditions amid exhaust fumes. Even so, that you made an effort to discuss it without titorite being the issue of focus beratingly is a big improvement in the debate, imo.

-------

"They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC

GreyLmist  posted on  2013-05-17   2:39:49 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#382. To: GreyLmist, titorite (#381)

I wouldn't expect to see the vortices unless there was smoke or clouds in their path

But if they were present the people would have been flung around like rag dolls according to your "side".

And if you didn't notice, there's a clip of a plane landing in the rain and kicking up a bunch of water once it lands, no vortices are present.

You are right, speed makes a difference, but according to your partner titorite, these things chase planes all over the place and that's why they have to take special precautions on the runway, because those damn things are ALL OVER the place on the ground.


"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2013-05-17   2:44:37 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#383. To: FormerLurker (#380)

But you go on the attack and repeat lie after lie after lie, hoping that if you repeat it enough people will begin to believe it.

Not my forum, but I wouldn't tolerate those that keep repeating lies. Some people should be banned.

God is always good!

RickyJ  posted on  2013-05-17   2:45:52 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#384. To: RickyJ (#383)

Not my forum, but I wouldn't tolerate those that keep repeating lies.

BAC got banned for less.


"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2013-05-17   2:47:41 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#385. To: FormerLurker (#384)

BAC got banned for less.

I wasn't aware he got banned, I thought he just gave up, or he found a forum with more traffic to troll.

God is always good!

RickyJ  posted on  2013-05-17   2:54:03 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#386. To: RickyJ (#385)

Pretty sure he was banned.


"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2013-05-17   2:55:17 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#387. To: FormerLurker (#386)

pretty sure or certain?

Ask our administrator :)

______________________________________

Suspect all media / resist bad propaganda/Learn NLP everyday everyway ;) (It's a more positive message)

titorite  posted on  2013-05-17   3:01:20 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#388. To: titorite (#387)

pretty sure or certain?

Why do you care? Worried?


"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2013-05-17   3:02:46 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#389. To: RickyJ (#383)

Not my forum, but I wouldn't tolerate those that keep repeating lies. Some people should be banned.

By your own words you should ban yourself for calling me a liar so much.

Who the hell are you? You never told a lie. I could call you a liar all day for repeating lies. Be honest. Show me the wake vortex if you even know what to look for. You can't do it. It is not a matter of you wont . You can't Because you remain ignorant.

______________________________________

Suspect all media / resist bad propaganda/Learn NLP everyday everyway ;) (It's a more positive message)

titorite  posted on  2013-05-17   3:05:04 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#390. To: FormerLurker (#388)

Why do you care? Worried?

lol

______________________________________

Suspect all media / resist bad propaganda/Learn NLP everyday everyway ;) (It's a more positive message)

titorite  posted on  2013-05-17   3:05:45 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#391. To: FormerLurker (#382)

I don't claim to know much about this vortex subject and am not concerned for the purposes of this discussion if they move forward or not in the air or on the ground -- just if they might have still been present to some extent in the same areas as the smoke at the alleged 9/11 crash sites. Speed -- yes, that's what I think is more important to analyze about it than critiquing titorite.

-------

"They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC

GreyLmist  posted on  2013-05-17   3:09:36 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#392. To: titorite, FormerLurker (#350)

Like hell, you just don't like the truth in front of your face so you'd rather believe some bullshit lie FL is peddling.

We simply agree on this topic.

We've disagreed on other topics.

I dont look to FL or anyone else for validating my opinions on any topic.

------------------------------------------

Can you demonstrate a single instance in history where incursion by niggers blacks has resulted in excellence, prosperity, or improvement owing to their presence, inventiveness, or disposition?

PSUSA2  posted on  2013-05-17   7:42:44 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#393. To: titorite (#353)

It is on thing to disagree. It is quite another to do so like a jew.

Yall aint jews.

We aint palistinians.

Quit yalls fucking shit and play fucking nice for christ sake... if not with me then at least,. (For the love of GOD) please play nice with those that are treating you nice.

You are THE most uncivil, vile, nasty POS on this forum, so heed your own advice jackass.

It's as if you're trying to totally and absolutely discredit this forum and everyone on it.


"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2013-05-17   10:29:33 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#394. To: FormerLurker (#393)

I am certain I am not alone in my disagreement with your incorrect assessments.

______________________________________

Suspect all media / resist bad propaganda/Learn NLP everyday everyway ;) (It's a more positive message)

titorite  posted on  2013-05-17   16:14:14 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#395. To: All (#394)

Yeah, An aluminum "plane wing" did that. NOT!

______________________________________

Suspect all media / resist bad propaganda/Learn NLP everyday everyway ;) (It's a more positive message)

titorite  posted on  2013-05-17   16:20:36 ET  (1 image) Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#396. To: titorite (#394)

And I am absolutely certain that I am not alone in my observations and assessments.

You can't give even ONE straight honest answer to ANYTHING concerning this topic, and refuse to concede ANYTHING no matter how voluminous and well sourced the proof is.

It's apparent you don't even read half the links you post, because if you did you'd see those links PROVE that you are full of it and have no clue whatsoever about what you're talking about, yet you act like everyone ELSE here (except for your two little friends) is being stupid and "dishonest".


"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2013-05-17   16:24:28 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#397. To: titorite (#395)

So what caused that hole then, "pixie dust"?

And don't you think at least a few people with cameras would have captured an explosion on video where that hole is, showing no plane created it if that were true?


"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2013-05-17   16:26:38 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#398. To: FormerLurker (#396)

Their is nothing to prove here other than the fact that you have certainly helped us pass alot of time on this, older false flag... As opposed to the more recent ones.

I can't imagine why any former lurker might want to rehash older false flags as opposed to the latest ones. but you know whatever.

______________________________________

Suspect all media / resist bad propaganda/Learn NLP everyday everyway ;) (It's a more positive message)

titorite  posted on  2013-05-17   16:27:05 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#399. To: titorite (#398)

I can't imagine why any former lurker might want to rehash older false flags as opposed to the latest ones. but you know whatever.

#1. To: Original_Intent (#0) (Edited)

like the absence of jet exhaust trails at every scene? Or the complete lack of wake vortex effect following the planes?

______________________________________

Suspect all media / resist propaganda/Learn NLP

titorite posted on 2013-05-05 23:42:22 ET Reply Trace Private Reply

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2013-05-17   16:28:49 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#400. To: FormerLurker (#399)

Yes Original intent did post this thread.

Whats your point?

______________________________________

Suspect all media / resist bad propaganda/Learn NLP everyday everyway ;) (It's a more positive message)

titorite  posted on  2013-05-17   16:29:34 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#401. To: titorite (#400)

Apparently you can't read your own name, eh?


"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2013-05-17   16:34:24 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#402. To: FormerLurker (#401) (Edited)

I can read my own name just fine. You point has no logical standing. If you went this far to prove something of who started what then it would be you attempting to throw OI under the bus.

Besides if we count the number of posts each of us have made your verbage wins for most posting ... I swear you are worse than a spam bot sometimes. Disinfo trolls almost never use the edit button .

______________________________________

Suspect all media / resist bad propaganda/Learn NLP everyday everyway ;) (It's a more positive message)

titorite  posted on  2013-05-17   16:37:27 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#403. To: titorite (#402)

I swear you are worse than a spam bot sometimes. Disinfo trolls almost never use the edit button

You post hordes of nonsense ignoring the very links that you've posted yourself, make mindless accustions and assertions, play the victim, pounce on people with repeated lies, and then accuse others of "disinfo".

Not once have you posted anything valid here, you have NOT been able to explain what a vortex is, and act all indignant if anyone calls you on your bullshit.

Oh and you've used that "Edit" button more than once to change the content and meaning of what you've said to make you appear to be saying something totally different than what you said originally.

It could be said that frequent use of the "Edit" button suggests somebody is abusing it for other than purely grammatical reasons.


"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2013-05-17   16:45:27 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#404. To: FormerLurker (#403)

What are you lying about now?

I've explained Wake vortex turbulence dozens of times now in dozens of ways.

You can't blame me for your complete lack of understanding. I'd see a therapist if I were you.

______________________________________

Suspect all media / resist bad propaganda/Learn NLP everyday everyway ;) (It's a more positive message)

titorite  posted on  2013-05-17   16:47:44 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#405. To: titorite (#404)

I've explained Wake vortex turbulence dozens of times now in dozens of ways.

Uh, no. You REFUSE to acknowledge that a vortex is simply a rotating airflow, I doubt you would even understand what a rotating airflow IS.

You've LIED and CLAIMED to know ALL about these things, yet you know nothing whatsoever, you simply toss out whatever pops into your head and hope it sticks.


"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2013-05-17   16:49:39 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#406. To: FormerLurker (#405)

Stop Marking your words.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=usj6uh49TPs

______________________________________

Suspect all media / resist bad propaganda/Learn NLP everyday everyway ;) (It's a more positive message)

titorite  posted on  2013-05-17   16:51:14 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#407. To: titorite (#406)

Screw off shillster. I can see why more than a few people have bozo'd you.


"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2013-05-17   16:52:21 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#408. To: FormerLurker (#407)

Screw off shillster. I can see why more than a few people have bozo'd you.

Using NLP abusively as you have done Former Lurker will not come of any benefit to you or anyone you represent.

______________________________________

Suspect all media / resist bad propaganda/Learn NLP everyday everyway ;) (It's a more positive message)

titorite  posted on  2013-05-17   16:54:25 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#409. To: titorite (#408)

Like I said early on, I wouldn't want to be you once people you know in real life get wise to what you're up to, and who and what you really are.

Good luck with that.

Or are you going to be giving your handlers the green light for a "take down" before that time comes?


"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2013-05-17   16:56:34 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#410. To: FormerLurker (#409)

Fine. Till laters

______________________________________

Suspect all media / resist bad propaganda/Learn NLP everyday everyway ;) (It's a more positive message)

titorite  posted on  2013-05-17   16:57:33 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#411. To: titorite, FormerLurker, PSUSA2 (#217) (Edited)

Here is a video link you don't want

www.youtube.com/watch? v=krL4fkrySZ4

That video shows undispersed wake vortex effects in a firey, explosive area and about zilch wake vortex effects in the fire and smoke at the WTC 1 strikezone.

Found this hint for calculating wake vortex strength at airspacemag.com: Is the Boeing 757 a threat to other airliners?

In the 1990s, engineers tested a number of airplanes to determine safe following distances. "We were really looking for ways to predict wake vortex behavior in general," Hinton says. "There's a formula: You can take the weight, the speed, and the wingspan of an airplane, and then you can predict the circulation strength from that.

Edit to add: article excerpt from Page 2 of 2.

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"They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC

GreyLmist  posted on  2013-05-18   3:27:05 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#412. To: GreyLmist (#411)

More blonde boxing videos eh? WTF.

Any segment of WTC footage embedded between the blonde boxing clips shows the EXIT side of the blast, not the ENTRANCE side. So what ARE you trying to prove here?

Oh wait, I get it, you don't need ACTUAL proof you just need to SAY it's proof, hoping nobody watches the clip to see what sort of BS you're posting.


"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2013-05-18   16:21:54 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#413. To: FormerLurker, PSUSA2, titorite, wudidiz, All (#412)

More blonde boxing videos eh? WTF.

Any segment of WTC footage embedded between the blonde boxing clips shows the EXIT side of the blast, not the ENTRANCE side. So what ARE you trying to prove here?

Oh wait, I get it, you don't need ACTUAL proof you just need to SAY it's proof, hoping nobody watches the clip to see what sort of BS you're posting.

titorite's video link at #217:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=krL4fkrySZ4

Reposted by me at #411. I'm hoping everyone who watches the clip will compare the WTC 1 footage there to the Naudet footage of their choice, FL, so they can see for themselves that titorite's video does show the purported ENTRANCE side of the blast where wake vortex effects should be evident but aren't. Other anomalies in the MSM promoted, WTC 1 "strikezone" footage by the Naudet Brothers are: smoke that weirdly moves off to the left side and also downward, displaying smokeless flames -- but the topic at issue here is the lack of visible vortex in the outflow of smokey fire at the time of the alleged crash. So, what are you and PSUSA2 trying to prove here, FL, by spinning the video linked by titorite as merely blonde boxer frivolity, by misdirecting viewers to think that the entrance side of the blast is the exit side, and by ignoring the main points of discussion that I posted at #411?:

[titorite's] video shows undispersed wake vortex effects in a firey, explosive area and about zilch wake vortex effects in the fire and smoke at the WTC 1 strikezone. Found this hint for calculating wake vortex strength at airspacemag.com: Is the Boeing 757 a threat to other airliners? [Page 2 of 2]
In the 1990s, engineers tested a number of airplanes to determine safe following distances. "We were really looking for ways to predict wake vortex behavior in general," Hinton says. "There's a formula: You can take the weight, the speed, and the wingspan of an airplane, and then you can predict the circulation strength from that.

-------

"They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC

GreyLmist  posted on  2013-05-19   6:35:10 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#414. To: GreyLmist (#413)

titorite's video link at #217:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=krL4fkrySZ4

Reposted by me at #411. I'm hoping everyone who watches the clip will compare the WTC 1 footage there to the Naudet footage of their choice

No one disputes that a plane flying thru smoke or fire will leave a visible vortex. None of the 9/11 planes flew THRU smoke or fire.

the Naudet footage

Did you see the plane? Did you hear the plane? If not, try this one, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YUw1Qqe1iMc

You are only concerned about what you didn't see (visible vortices), not what you did see and hear.

The only thing I may have been wrong about is when I said the flaming debris exited opposite the impact side. Or maybe I said most of it did. I don't know. I wont go back thru 400 posts to find out.

Does that matter? no.

You are relying on your understanding of wing tip vortices to prove ALL eyewitnesses and videos as frauds. That is what it all comes down to. So dont be too surprised that no one is buying what you're selling.

------------------------------------------

Death to the Draconians!!!

PSUSA2  posted on  2013-05-19   7:53:44 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#415. To: PSUSA2 (#414)

Pusa I think it is you that is denying that these vortices exist even in the absence of smoke or fire.

These votrtices are always present in flight.

You do not understand flight properly if you think they do not exist at any time.

And yeah we are concerned about what we see..

Like the Gory amputee in boston...

Their was some bullshit afoul there. And once you see it you can not unsee it.

BUt you know whatever.

I think you'd rather talk about blondes and sports than the towers.

And if such is the case Why even bother enganging us unless it is only to troll or get your jollys like you did the other sday with the Gooey NWO plane thread.

That was immature. Just a childish adult looking to get off at the expense of others.

With that in mind, why not just spend more time at a troll site like ebaums world or 4chan?

______________________________________

Suspect all media / resist bad propaganda/Learn NLP everyday everyway ;) (It's a more positive message) there is not one convincing piece of this which indicates it was a false flag. -Former Lurker on the Boston Bombing

titorite  posted on  2013-05-19   8:25:04 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#416. To: titorite (#415)

Pusa I think it is you that is denying that these vortices exist even in the absence of smoke or fire.

No one disputes that a plane flying thru smoke or fire will leave a visible vortex. None of the 9/11 planes flew THRU smoke or fire.

------------------------------------------

Death to the Draconians!!!

PSUSA2  posted on  2013-05-19   9:07:05 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#417. To: titorite (#415)

These votrtices are always present in flight.

You do not understand flight properly if you think they do not exist at any time.

You are relying on your understanding of wing tip vortices to prove ALL eyewitnesses and videos as frauds. That is what it all comes down to. So dont be too surprised that no one is buying what you're selling.

------------------------------------------

Death to the Draconians!!!

PSUSA2  posted on  2013-05-19   9:08:39 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#418. To: titorite (#415)

And if such is the case Why even bother enganging us

You want free rein to spew bullshit with no opposition. I engage because I choose to.

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Death to the Draconians!!!

PSUSA2  posted on  2013-05-19   9:10:52 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#419. To: PSUSA2 (#417)

You are relying on your understanding of wing tip vortices to prove ALL eyewitnesses and videos as frauds. That is what it all comes down to. So dont be too surprised that no one is buying what you're selling.

No.

You have assumed.

I am not saying all the videos are fake.

I am saying you have failed to show any proof of vortex.

The videos are really there. They are all we have to go on.

Now the eye witnesses... The Harly davidson man and the like... No ... I am not buying their testimony. The Physical evidence is stacked against.

And the vortices are not he only thing of impossible.

I am hedging my bets on the impossibles.

You wanna prove an inside job? Prove to me how the impossible was accomplished.

Because their is no fucking way any plane crashed into those buildings... and I do not believe holograms were used... if such was the case then they would of been reused.

This has not happened.

HOWEVER many more incidents of CGI / TV fakery have happened... and not just in the US. Other nations do the same thing. It is easy to manipulate with TV.

Terribly easy.

Another realm of impossible was rewriting to computer programing and or replacing any hardware necessary , so that the terrorists could achieve max speed at low altitude.

And at the pentagon we are to believe that a commercial air bus could fly like an f14 with out ripping its own wings off pulling Gs it can't handle.

Their are lots of impossibles associated with 911. I hang my hat on all of them.

And if you can't understand that maybe you should start spending more time researching this shit yourself , instead of thinking about how snarky you can make your next reply.

______________________________________

Suspect all media / resist bad propaganda/Learn NLP everyday everyway ;) (It's a more positive message) there is not one convincing piece of this which indicates it was a false flag. -Former Lurker on the Boston Bombing

titorite  posted on  2013-05-19   10:33:25 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#420. To: PSUSA2 (#418)

You want free rein to spew bullshit with no opposition. I engage because I choose to.

US

as in plural.

You are not engaging just one person.

And if you choose to thats fine , I was just suggesting you work less on trolling and jollys and more on educating yourself.

www.barefootsworld.net/

______________________________________

Suspect all media / resist bad propaganda/Learn NLP everyday everyway ;) (It's a more positive message) there is not one convincing piece of this which indicates it was a false flag. -Former Lurker on the Boston Bombing

titorite  posted on  2013-05-19   10:36:32 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#421. To: titorite (#419)

And at the pentagon we are to believe that a commercial air bus could fly like an f14 with out ripping its own wings off pulling Gs it can't handle.

Show where they flew like they were in a dogfight.

You really should keep going. It's entertaining to see what you'll write next.

------------------------------------------

Death to the Draconians!!!

PSUSA2  posted on  2013-05-19   10:43:55 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#422. To: titorite (#420)

You are not engaging just one person.

True. I'm engaging multiple idiots.

Since you used a fighter pilot analogy: I'm in a P-51D, you're in a A6M. I'm at your 6 o'clock high. The sun is at my back, and I'm loaded for bear. What do you think I am going to do???

------------------------------------------

Death to the Draconians!!!

PSUSA2  posted on  2013-05-19   10:46:51 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#423. To: PSUSA2 (#421)

Show where they flew like they were in a dogfight.

You really should keep going. It's entertaining to see what you'll write next.

Flight 77 made a complicated 330-degree turn around the Pentagon at 530 miles an hour according to the official story.

It also managed to miss a number of light poles in its way.

______________________________________

Suspect all media / resist bad propaganda/Learn NLP everyday everyway ;) (It's a more positive message) there is not one convincing piece of this which indicates it was a false flag. -Former Lurker on the Boston Bombing

titorite  posted on  2013-05-19   10:49:26 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#424. To: PSUSA2 (#422)

True. I'm engaging multiple idiots.

Says the old fool distracted by a blonde bimbo over the subject matter of the topic...

It would of been alot less idiotic to pay attention to the information in the video...instead of the blonde bimbo.

______________________________________

Suspect all media / resist bad propaganda/Learn NLP everyday everyway ;) (It's a more positive message) there is not one convincing piece of this which indicates it was a false flag. -Former Lurker on the Boston Bombing

titorite  posted on  2013-05-19   10:53:03 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#425. To: titorite (#423)

Flight 77 made a complicated 330-degree turn around the Pentagon at 530 miles an hour according to the official story.

The pentagon is a separate topic. We're talking towers here. The WTC 7 and the pentagon hit are the 2 weakest links in the official story.

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Death to the Draconians!!!

PSUSA2  posted on  2013-05-19   10:58:08 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#426. To: titorite (#424)

There was no information on the video.

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Death to the Draconians!!!

PSUSA2  posted on  2013-05-19   10:58:43 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#427. To: FormerLurker, titorite, Original_Intent, Lod, Artisan, Dakmar, PSUSA2, Jethro Tull, christine, James Deffenbach (#152)

It's clear to US that you are not interested in any sort of "truth", your only concern is to attack those who are.

So far my friends have tolerated my occasional seizures when I indirectly attack their beliefs.

And even though titorite's thoughts (post 146) ares of the colloquial, pull no punches variety he pretty well expressed my contempt for Big Church, Inc., and the expensive miracles they heave up.

We differ on the damage resulting from Christian fanaticism. Although not known for herpetic mohels or decapitation, Christian beliefs translate into devastating damage when navy and air force flight crews release bombs over wrong religion civilian targets. In too many cases the justifications for the air campaigns are so thin that even the implied lust for oil does not reconcile the deaths and destruction in my aching soul.

In short, I believe that there are more than a few Generals like "Jack D. Ripper" (Sterling Hayden in DR. STRANGELOVE) in the US Armed Forces. And the complete non observance of "love thy neighbor" and "thou shalt not kill" is because they cannot share the same universe with Christian hawks who hear different voices that order polar opposite mandates.

And one hard rule of the two party system (you know, the one that's required by the constitution or The Declaration or, well, I'm sure it's written somewhere) is that all "good, moderate lefties" must stand together with the murdering extremists. ("While I can't applaud the deaths caused by The Weathermen, I understand the frustration that ultimately resulted in those unfortunate deaths...")

And sadly, the rule seems responsible for many Christians/Conservatives remaining silent when The Pentagon paints villages red with "the blood of the lamb" and that of any collateral heathens within the blast radius.

The very existence of Christianity is proven by acts of men. Those who suspend their beliefs to conduct lop sided high tech laser-guided wars against raggedy assed goat herders do little to reinforce my belief in The King Of Kings.

And, before someone sets the record straight by pointing out that the wars benefit another Middle Eastern country, let me say this: Even if there was no such influence applying external pressure to our govt there would be wars that require the use (and replacement) of expensive weapons. War is indeed the health of the state. And, just who do I think I am when suggesting that thousands of defense workers are not doing the Lord's work and that they should be forced into other hopefully productive fields of endeavor?

HOUNDDAWG  posted on  2013-05-19   20:13:30 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#428. To: HOUNDDAWG (#427)

In too many cases the justifications for the air campaigns are so thin that even the implied lust for oil does not reconcile the deaths and destruction in my aching soul.

A - freaking -men!

______________________________________

Suspect all media / resist bad propaganda/Learn NLP everyday everyway ;) (It's a more positive message) there is not one convincing piece of this which indicates it was a false flag. -Former Lurker the liar on the Boston Bombing

titorite  posted on  2013-05-19   20:17:30 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#429. To: HOUNDDAWG, SKYDRIFTER (#427)

I don't disagree with anything you said. My issue is with a fairly obvious government shill pretending he's "on our side", when in reality he's acting no different than any other shill we've ever seen on the Internet. The only difference is that he's more selective with who he attacks (myself, SKYDRIFTER, and a few others who try to post factual info), and that he's WAY more vile than any other shill I've had the misfortune of crossing swords with.


"I got a letter from the local sheriff saying he was gonna arrest my felon ass" - "I recently made my rounds all over the place asking about a liberator"" - titorite the COINTEL plant

FormerLurker  posted on  2013-05-19   20:17:45 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#430. To: FormerLurker (#429)

I don't disagree with anything you said. My issue is with a fairly obvious government shill pretending he's "on our side", when in reality he's acting no different than any other shill we've ever seen on the Internet. The only difference is that he's more selective with who he attacks (myself, SKYDRIFTER, and a few others who try to post factual info), and that he's WAY more vile than any other shill I've had the misfortune of crossing swords with.

DO you think jews are gods chosen master race loved and favored above all other goy on earth?

______________________________________

Suspect all media / resist bad propaganda/Learn NLP everyday everyway ;) (It's a more positive message) there is not one convincing piece of this which indicates it was a false flag. -Former Lurker the liar on the Boston Bombing

titorite  posted on  2013-05-19   20:24:12 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#431. To: titorite (#430)

DO you think jews are gods chosen master race loved and favored above all other goy on earth?

Uh no, why do you?

Did you even know that if anything I tend to be more of a Buddhist, even though I was born and raised Roman Catholic?

So what religion are YOU exactly?


"I got a letter from the local sheriff saying he was gonna arrest my felon ass" - "I recently made my rounds all over the place asking about a liberator"" - titorite the COINTEL plant

FormerLurker  posted on  2013-05-19   20:33:10 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#432. To: FormerLurker (#431)

Uh no, why do you?

Did you even know that if anything I tend to be more of a Buddhist, even though I was born and raised Roman Catholic?

So what religion are YOU exactly?

I do not believe jews are the master race of jack of shit. .

You wanna know the master race? it's gonna be the Chinese for bumping their childrens IQ every generation FUCK WHY ARENT WE DOING THAT!!!!!

As for my religion?

I don't know anymore. I am not an atheist. and I am not agnostic. I talk to God... In that regard I suppose I am no different than any other religious nut.

I guess it would be easiest to just say I believe.

______________________________________

Suspect all media / resist bad propaganda/Learn NLP everyday everyway ;) (It's a more positive message) there is not one convincing piece of this which indicates it was a false flag. -Former Lurker the liar on the Boston Bombing

titorite  posted on  2013-05-19   20:39:31 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#433. To: HOUNDDAWG (#427)

Christian beliefs translate into devastating damage when navy and air force flight crews release bombs over wrong religion civilian targets.

When their god wipes out 57,000 men because someone looked into a box, well, what's a little collateral damage?

www.biblegateway.com/pass...amuel%206:19&version=KJ21

Want more examples? I have more. Oh yes, I have more.

They're just like their god.

That doesn't mean there aren't some nice christians out there, because there are. But they aren't good christians. They're good in spite of their religion and its scriptures, not because of their religion and scriptures. They're heretics.

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Death to the Draconians!!!

PSUSA2  posted on  2013-05-19   21:02:17 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#434. To: PSUSA2, HOUNDAWG (#433)

Jesus was a heretic.


"If they can get you asking the wrong questions, they don't have to worry about answers" ~ Thomas Pynchon Gravity's Rainbow

wudidiz  posted on  2013-05-19   23:40:17 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#435. To: FormerLurker, titorite (#429)

"I got a letter from the local sheriff saying he was gonna arrest my felon ass" - "I recently made my rounds all over the place asking about a liberator"" - titorite the COINTEL plant

FL needs his di-di changed


"If they can get you asking the wrong questions, they don't have to worry about answers" ~ Thomas Pynchon Gravity's Rainbow

wudidiz  posted on  2013-05-19   23:50:40 ET  (1 image) Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#436. To: wudidiz (#435)

FL needs his di-di changed

wudidiz thinks he's very clever. You actually sound like a real doofus.


"I got a letter from the local sheriff saying he was gonna arrest my felon ass" - "I recently made my rounds all over the place asking about a liberator"" - titorite the COINTEL plant

FormerLurker  posted on  2013-05-20   0:19:47 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#437. To: FormerLurker (#436)

.


"If they can get you asking the wrong questions, they don't have to worry about answers" ~ Thomas Pynchon Gravity's Rainbow

wudidiz  posted on  2013-05-20   15:54:18 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#438. To: PSUSA2 (#414)

the Naudet footage

Did you see the plane? Did you hear the plane? If not, try this one, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YUw1Qqe1iMc

?? The Naudet footage is of the 1st alleged crash into the North Tower. Your cited YouTube is of the 2nd alleged crash into the South Tower. Sound effects aren't the issue. Wake vortex effects or not in the outflowing smoke and fire of the alleged impact areas is the issue. titorite's video showed that smoke and fire in an explosive area was affected in that footage by wake vortex which remained from a plane that had travelled onward, not from flying through it. Your post that said "the flaming debris exited opposite the impact side" was #122. The rest of your post is a misrepresentation of my perspectives and a mass of confusion about yours and the building that was under review. Why you'd think, under those circumstances, that anyone should buy what you're selling is...I'm not sure what to call it. I guess I'll just say: Caveat Emptor/Buyer Beware.

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"They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC

GreyLmist  posted on  2013-05-22   8:58:35 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#439. To: GreyLmist (#438)

alleged crash

?

titorite's video showed that smoke and fire in an explosive area was affected in that footage by wake vortex which remained from a plane that had travelled onward, not from flying through it.

And?

Yes, there are vortices behind an airplane. No one claimed there weren't.

How can I misrepresent your perspectives when I can't even figure out what they are?

There is no intentional misrepresentation on my part. This whole thing is so disorganized that it is not possible to understand. If you believe wing tip vortices are so key to understanding the no-plane case, then why not start another topic and discuss it in a FOCUSED and logical manner?

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Death to the Draconians!!!

PSUSA2  posted on  2013-05-22   9:13:04 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#440. To: PSUSA2, 4 (#439)

I believe that Rabbi Dov's remote-controlled aircraft hit the two towers creating the explosions and fires. NYFD was dealing with the fires professionally and well until the controlled demolitions were triggered.

Lucky Larry, the jew, stated that the decision was made to "pull" building 7.

It was the most dramatic false-flag op since Pearl to stampede the herd into another war.

“The most dangerous man to any government is the man who is able to think things out... without regard to the prevailing superstitions and taboos. Almost inevitably he comes to the conclusion that the government he lives under is dishonest, insane, intolerable.” ~ H. L. Mencken

Lod  posted on  2013-05-22   9:33:10 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#441. To: Lod (#440)

I believe that Rabbi Dov's remote-controlled aircraft hit the two towers creating the explosions and fires. NYFD was dealing with the fires professionally and well until the controlled demolitions were triggered.

Possible.

I'd have to look it up, but I seem to remember reading (from a good source) that airliners flight controls could be forcefully taken by remote.

And the NYFD had the fires under control. Then they were murdered.

Here's how hot the fires were:

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Death to the Draconians!!!

PSUSA2  posted on  2013-05-22   9:55:38 ET  (1 image) Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#442. To: PSUSA2 (#441)

whoa! check it -

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radio_control

“The most dangerous man to any government is the man who is able to think things out... without regard to the prevailing superstitions and taboos. Almost inevitably he comes to the conclusion that the government he lives under is dishonest, insane, intolerable.” ~ H. L. Mencken

Lod  posted on  2013-05-22   10:34:52 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#443. To: Lod (#442)

I used to fly them, and crash them, as a hobby. Good times.

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Death to the Draconians!!!

PSUSA2  posted on  2013-05-22   11:02:05 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#444. To: HOUNDDAWG (#427)

very well stated.

christine  posted on  2013-05-22   12:18:21 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#445. To: HOUNDDAWG (#427)

before someone sets the record straight by pointing out that the wars benefit another Middle Eastern country, let me say this: Even if there was no such influence applying external pressure to our govt there would be wars that require the use (and replacement) of expensive weapons. War is indeed the health of the state.

I can't agree that War is the health of the state. It benefits War Profiteers. What is needed for the health of the state, imo, is to replace the dysfunctional monetary/economic/banking/accounting/valuation systems where Defense weapons wouldn't be such an expense to make for deterring invasions here or to deconstruct and replace. It's all work that citizens could be doing to earn their incomes as a self-employed labor sector that benefits the well being of American society without them having to be subjected to revenue-siphoning "middlemen" in the business sector or their refusals of employment for Americans.

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"They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC

GreyLmist  posted on  2013-05-22   13:17:48 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#446. To: FormerLurker, titorite (#429)

I don't disagree with anything you said. My issue is with a fairly obvious government shill pretending he's "on our side", when in reality he's acting no different than any other shill we've ever seen on the Internet. The only difference is that he's more selective with who he attacks (myself, SKYDRIFTER, and a few others who try to post factual info), and that he's WAY more vile than any other shill I've had the misfortune of crossing swords with.

Well my friend, titorite may indeed have a clear, anti sovereign USA agenda, but it just doesn't read that way to me.

Of course I couldn't tell you what most of our members' political leanings are unless they spelled them out for me, or others finger them and show me the evidence.

And the sheer viciousness that seems to accompany your exchanges is also a distraction. Perhaps I could see what it is you're trying to show us all if not for the shock factor of the dogfights. If you'd care to calmly and civilly underscore some quotes in context then I may agree with you. (Not to imply that my opinion should matter to you or anyone else)

The way things are I can't underwrite your campaign against another member because the posts that leave me stone cold aren't political but personal in nature.

HOUNDDAWG  posted on  2013-05-23   16:34:20 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#447. To: HOUNDDAWG, SKYDRIFTER (#446)

I guess you must of meant to post this to SKYDRIFTER since that's who titorite was posting to in the quoted section of the post you first apparently replied to.

As far as who is posting personal attacks and tossing out profanity, insults, and accusations, perhaps you should read this thread and pay attention to who is posting what.

http://freedom4um.com/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=154772&Disp=152#C146


"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2013-05-23   16:47:22 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#448. To: GreyLmist (#445)

before someone sets the record straight by pointing out that the wars benefit another Middle Eastern country, let me say this: Even if there was no such influence applying external pressure to our govt there would be wars that require the use (and replacement) of expensive weapons. War is indeed the health of the state.

I can't agree that War is the health of the state. It benefits War Profiteers. What is needed for the health of the state, imo, is to replace the dysfunctional monetary/economic/banking/accounting/valuation systems where Defense weapons wouldn't be such an expense to make for deterring invasions here or to deconstruct and replace. It's all work that citizens could be doing to earn their incomes as a self-employed labor sector that benefits the well being of American society without them having to be subjected to revenue-siphoning "middlemen" in the business sector or their refusals of employment for Americans

You've done a yeoman's job of explaining the way things should be.

The quote I borrowed is the way things are, however. Hell, even Lincoln bought the same, defective arms from crooked war profiteers several times, and yet he was powerless to prosecute or even drop the offenders from the list of approved suppliers.

And, how far back must we go (The Roman Empire and its road to conquest known as The Appian Way) to show that plunder has been the priority for govts for eons? Your noble treatment of the way things should be is indeed lofty and admirable. But I'd be interested in any examples you could cite as having adopted an ethical and exemplary alternative to war and plunder to maintain any enduring govt in recorded history. (Denmark doesn't count. They can't make tanks out of fish meal)

So, I suppose we could reduce it to a single definition of "the state". Do you remember Louis XIV's famous quote, "L'Etat c'est moi"? I've never seen any quotable quote from any powerful source that is more aligned with your understandable if not somewhat unsupportable reverie of "what the state isn't." You know, something memorable like, "Screw the rich and influential who put me in office! We're running this country to empower and benefit the little people!"

Please don't confuse my use of a quote as endorsement of same. And, I won't attempt to make your exception to it appear as the embrace of a fictitious morality play such as Walt Disney's Pollyanna.

HOUNDDAWG  posted on  2013-05-23   17:00:34 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#449. To: FormerLurker, SKYDRIFTER (#447)

I guess you must of meant to post this to SKYDRIFTER since that's who titorite was posting to in the quoted section of the post you first apparently replied to.

Yes, thank you.

ATT: SKYDRIFTER, please see post 446.

HOUNDDAWG  posted on  2013-05-23   17:10:33 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#450. To: HOUNDDAWG (#448)

So, I suppose we could reduce it to a single definition of "the state". Do you remember Louis XIV's famous quote, "L'Etat c'est moi"? I've never seen any quotable quote from any powerful source that is more aligned with your understandable if not somewhat unsupportable reverie of "what the state isn't."

:) Thanks for your gem of a post. Took a long, circuitous route getting back here but managed to do so today. As it turned out, the timing may have been somewhat fortuitous. In answer to your question, oui, yes I did vaguely recall the quotation from some point in my studies when I read that: I am the State/The State is me. Oddly enough, as I was on my way to make this reply, I happened upon a band called I Don't Speak French who have a newly debuted song called We Are The People. Couldn't hear all the words and couldn't find the lyrics online but this is a translated synopsis that I was able to locate fairly quickly at http://gaffa.se/nyhet/72931:

Today we premiere the video for, and indeed even the song We Are The People with I Do not Speak French . The Växjö band's debut single and a taste of what's to come when their debut album is released this summer.

The band began as a creative outlet for the singer Håkan Persson , who then joined forces with jazz drummer Peter Turesson and then add three more members to the band, and on the way it is. To describe the band the song itself: - It is inspired by the anxiety we feel about the consumer society that we in the West have created us. But in contrast to the serious message of the song has been given an uplifting and catchigt sound. The text is about how we are interconnected, and together they must be held accountable for the choices we make in our daily lives. video is an experiment where they mixed simple hand-drawn illustrations with printed images and then animated them digitally. - Large parts of the animations we have made by hand and filmed the movement directly. For example, we pasted pictures of instruments on skewers and moved them to the music with his hands, spun a drawn path between two curtain rods, to get the car to look like it is moving forward

Watch the video below:

I like the words "We Are The People" and the music presentation was up-tempo artsy so am posting it here:

Published on Jun 3, 2013

Buy it on iTunes!
https://itunes.apple.com/se/album/we-...

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"They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC

GreyLmist  posted on  2013-06-08   14:38:13 ET  (1 image) Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#451. To: titorite (#419)

I am hedging my bets on the impossibles.

when one rules out the improbable only the impossible remains, the government's claims of how 9/11 went down are all improbabilities therefore all that remains is that what a minority of the populous would consider impossible, the government in question did in fact perpetrated the act.


I used to be in a hurry, then I figured out I was just getting nowhere fast.

IRTorqued  posted on  2013-06-08   15:58:56 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


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