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9/11
See other 9/11 Articles

Title: 9 11 Fake Video Stars: The J Star Clones – Why Covert Operation’s Cointel Must Have ‘Fake’ Video and ‘No Planes’
Source: Ed Ward, MD's Blog: US Tyranny & Treason
URL Source: http://edwardmd.wordpress.com/
Published: May 5, 2013
Author: Ed Ward M.D.
Post Date: 2013-05-05 20:49:50 by Original_Intent
Keywords: planes, no-planes, 911, towers
Views: 28587
Comments: 451

9 11 Fake Video Stars: The J Star Clones – Why Covert Operation’s Cointel Must Have ‘Fake’ Video and ‘No Planes’

9 11 Fake Video Stars: The J Star Clones - Why Covert Operation's Cointel Must Have 'Fake' Video

US Government Problem: Video of the planes needed to actually fly into the WTCs are readily available to the public.

US Government Solution: Promote the Videos as ‘fake’ based on ‘pixel’ BS – This solves the ‘evidence’ problem while never noting that the planes are NOT commercial airliners – which are not structurally capable of performing the tasks and look nothing like the photographic proof that commercial airliners are ‘not in the picture’ and US Government Military Planes are ‘in the picture’. Actually, an excellent scam premise when pumped out by the covert op truth troops.

Wingtips say B 767-400ERE-10A is THE CLONE USED to fly into the WTCs – Unless someone has a version that matches the video better.

The videos show that a Boeing 767-400ER E-10A was the supposed Super-Powered’ Commercial Airliner’. (One of these all very similar clones is clearly seen – one version of these clones has the ‘swept’ back wingtips used to discredit the video as fakery by some… Boeing 767-400ER E-10A) All early videos show the pod and the swept back wing – Recently, I’ve seen newer posts of truth videos in which the planes have neither.

Something that is fake can prove nothing, except that it is fake. It can not prove whether, how, or even if an actual event happened or not. Of course for this premise of ‘fake’ video proving anything one must also believe that during planning…

Someone says, since the plan is to use hijacked airliners, “Hey, let’s not use real planes. Let’s truck the plane parts in, crews to lay them out, people to say they saw planes, etc, et al, and just make some fake videos of planes going into the towers. Now, when we make these fake videos, instead of photoshopping in a commercial airliner with windows, we’ll photoshop in the plane needed to actually do it. Everybody high fives and says, ‘yeah, it’s just our lives on the line for treason.’ ”

Next day, the moron is no longer a threat… most likely scenario, taken out by their own family out of fear they’d all be taken out. It’s ludicrous on multiple levels.. Not just one.

The Ivy Flats Video, the testing of the first micro nuke, the Davy Crockett, is a perfect example of a camera that simply is too slow. Sure, cameras are a lot faster now, so have the travel speeds. They capture erratic images AT BEST when velocity exceeds capture speed images/PIXELS distort. Fact as clearly seen on the Ivy Flats video as soldiers move off train watch what happens to their legs. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nv_q8q6Z9_I

Fake video is only important if one NEEDS to disprove video evidence that a SUPER POWERED IRREGULAR SHAPED, NON WINDOWED ‘COMMERCIAL AIRLINER’ FLEW INTO THE WTCS – INDIRECTLY, without drawing attention to the fact a military aircraft flew into the WTCs. It’s still being done today by so called ‘truthers’. Did the ‘truther orgs’ say? The US government has been caught using its own planes to destroy the WTCs? No everything was silent and then came the need for the ‘fake video’ call.

No Windows in Flight 175 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jRC4lCQuBmc&feature=related

Evaluation of Video Footage – for WTC comparisons…

http://911review.org/Wiki/Wtc2PlanePod.shtml

Photo: Boeing N256BA – E-10 MC2A http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3040/2351680318_dcaff7147e_z.jpg?zz=1

Related photos: http://www.spyflight.co.uk/767%20mc2a.htm

There are additional photos in original article ’9 11 Fake Video Stars: The JSTAR Clones. Why Covert Ops Must Have Fake Video 9-11 Fake Video Stars – The JSTAR Clones 10-1-10 Note, the little blue decal up front – one of the WTC witnesses claims to have seen one on the ‘plane that flew into..) BTW, eye witness testimony – the LEAST valuable information WITHOUT additional evidence. http://www.rense.com/general92/911fk.htm

F-4 Phantom at 500 mph into a solid concrete wall http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AB4IEa7jTJw

(Bullets Into Steel – Under pressure and friction metals tend to liquefy) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QfFoMyMoiX4

The wall was 12 ft thick, THE PLANE WAS NOT FILLED WITH WATER, but the tanks were to simulate fuel.

“But there was a test similar to what is described above. In 1988, an
unmanned F-4 Phantom, ballasted with water and mounted on rails, was
“flown” into a concrete wall at 480 MPH. As reported, the plane crumpled,
and penetrated only about 2 inches of concrete. A very impressive test -
except it wasn’t meant to be a test of nuclear reactor safety. The wall
the F-4 crashed into was not a simulation of a nuclear plant’s wall. It
was a 12-foot-thick wall mounted on an air cushion. The test was designed to study impact forces by measuring how far the impact would push the wall. Breaking through the concrete was the last thing any of the involved scientists wanted to achieve. Furthermore, the F-4 was ballasted with water to give it the same weight as a plane fully loaded with fuel, and its final weight was 42,000 pounds. Needless to say, crashing a 412,000 pound 767 loaded with fuel into a fixed wall would have slightly different results.

Because according to a 1982 study by the Argonne National Laboratory in Illinois – a study which was conducted by request of the DOE and the NRC – the explosion from a 707 crashing into a containment dome at 466 MPH would probably overwhelm the reactor’s shielding. Note – that’s a 707, which weighs 336,000 pounds. In 1982 those were big jets. But we’ve “advanced” considerably since then. The 767s that were flown into the World Trade Center weighed 80,000 pounds more than that and carried a lot more fuel.

Other studies, again conducted for the NRC at the Lawrence Livermore
National Laboratory, found that a 125,000 pound jet had a 32 % chance of piercing a containment building’s six-foot base and an 84 % chance of
breaking through the dome.” http://everything2.com/user/DejaMorgana/writeups/Nuclear+Power

“A key report, Sugano et al 1992, covers a rocket sled crash experiment using an F-4D Phantom jet fighter impacting into a 10 foot thick reinforced concrete block.

Sandia notes:
The purpose of the test was to determine the impact force, versus time, due to the impact, of a complete F-4 Phantom — including both engines — onto a massive, essentially rigid reinforced concrete target (3.66 meters thick). Previous tests used F-4 engines at similar speeds. The test was not intended to demonstrate the performance (survivability) of any particular type of concrete structure to aircraft impact. The impact occurred at the nominal velocity of 215 meters per second (about 480 mph). The mass of the jet fuel was simulated by water; the effects of fire following such a collision was not a part of the test. The test established that the major impact force was from the engines. The test was performed by Sandia National Laboratories under terms of a contract with the Muto Institute of Structural Mechanics, Inc., of Tokyo.

With very minimal damage to the concrete target block, the plane and its engines were easily converted into small chunks of metal confetti and shrapnel at the physical interface of the two impact objects. Upon initial impact, the follow-on rear portions of the plane yet to make contact retained their shape integrity until their respective impact. (This seriously contradicts claims by Jean-Pierre Desmoulins that the wings of a 757 would have folded forward, as well as claims in the popular press that the wings folded back before entering the “too-small” hole.) The resulting shear caused debris being spread out to the left, right, and rear of the impact locus, having no ability to proceed in their original vector path, having grossly failed the test of strength with the concrete block. However, the wings are wider than the concrete block, so the wingtips are sheared off whole, and they tumble forward after being cleanly separated from the aircraft.

F4 aircraft impacting a solid concrete barrier. Note that the wings and tail do not fold as the nose impacts the concrete. (source: don’t bother moved -http://www.sandia.gov/media/NRgallery00-03.htm)

Sugano (in itself) doesn’t show that a 757 hitting the Pentagon would be turned into confetti and small chunks, but it does show that an F4 was completely destroyed in arguably similar circumstances. Furthermore, it wasn’t anywhere close to an even contest between the wall and the F4. The F4 started with a speed of 215 m/sec — and the tail was still traveling at 185 m/sec when it smashed into the wall. The F4 is a very strongly build aircraft, although at 18 meters long and 19 kg, it’s about a third the length and a fifth the weight of the 757. In terms of comparing what would happen to a 757 versus what happened to the F4, it would be difficult to do an accurate calculation without detailed design information on both aircraft. In a preliminary analysis, the extra length of the 757 means that it has three times the distance to decelerate — but the 757 is also much heavier, so it’s more difficult for the crushing process to supply enough force to decelerate even as rapidly as the F4 did.” http://www.911-strike.com/missing-confetti.htm The article from the ‘pentagon disinformation unit’ counters the information from the ‘WTC no planes disinformation unit’.

Ed Ward, MD – http://edwardmd.wordpress.com/ ;
https://www.facebook.com/EdWardMD3 ; http://groups.yahoo.com/group/EdWard-MD/messages

More US Drill Death in Waco Explosion – Drill Stops for Reality, Again http://edwardmd.wordpress.com/2013/04/28/more-us-drill-death-in-waco-drill-stops-for-reality-again/

Boston Marathon: The Finish Line For US Treason. Drill Death. Everything’s In Place For Police State. by Ed Ward, MD http://edwardmd.wordpress.com/2013/04/16/boston-marathon-the-finish-line-for-us-treason-drill-death-everything-is-in-place-for-police-state-by-ed-ward-md/

Pictures: US Boston Weapon – Both ‘Explosions’ – The Secret of the Pure Fusion Weapon – Li7 – Lithium 7 http://edwardmd.wordpress.com/2013/04/19/photograph-of-boston-fireball-2nd-explosion/

Dr. Ed Ward MD, AS, BS, MD – Reporting and investigating Constitutional abuses of the US government for almost 2 decades. AS, BS in Medical Technology – Minor in Organic Chemistry and Physics, volunteer during the Viet Nam war 6 years stateside active duty ‘med tech’ ‘US Air Farce’ – a decade experience in Medical Technology. MD degree from LSU, New Orleans – 2 decades in the field of General Practice. (My) Articles are also referenced by valid experts in their field.


Poster Comment:

For you "no planers" there are other rational explanations other than the planted disinfo (to discredit questions on 911) that there were no planes.(1 image)

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#178. To: titorite (#175)

If you were really a pilot you'd know that.

Everyone here who's been in touch with this forum over the years already know that SKYDRIFTER IS a real pilot.

He's quite famous actually.

You are a nobody.


"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2013-05-12   18:55:59 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#179. To: FormerLurker (#154)

Who taught you this sort of "science", Jim Fetzer?

That's a truly prominent name in the "no-planes" issue; another persistent but sore loser. I suspect he still loses sleep every time my name pops up.


SKYDRIFTER  posted on  2013-05-12   18:58:26 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#180. To: FormerLurker (#178)

Yeah, everyone online is someone famous.

I'm sure.

I am also sure wake vortex will follow a plane into a wall.

HOPEFULLY SKYDRIFTER will recant and admit to this as well....

But I am not holding my breath.

Also I like being a nobody. So that happened.

______________________________________

Suspect all media / resist bad propaganda/Learn NLP everyday everyway ;) (It's a more positive message)

titorite  posted on  2013-05-12   18:58:45 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#181. To: SKYDRIFTER (#179)

What is your real name John Lear?

______________________________________

Suspect all media / resist bad propaganda/Learn NLP everyday everyway ;) (It's a more positive message)

titorite  posted on  2013-05-12   18:59:21 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#182. To: SKYDRIFTER (#179)

That's a truly prominent name in the "no-planes" issue; another persistent but sore loser. I suspect he still loses sleep every time my name pops up.

He's apparently started a religion over this crap, whose worshippers cling to every word out of his mouth as if he were Jim Jones.

I wonder when they'll be drinking the extra special Kool-Aid. Oh wait...


"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2013-05-12   19:01:08 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#183. To: titorite (#170) (Edited)

If you ping me with a PM you can hold me too it. Otherwise I might lose track... and I'd like to try.

Well, do your part and quit with the crap, and state your case.

People are trying to manoeuver for the kill, but this is a dogfight that no one will win.

Stay on target...

If the facts are on your side, then the facts are on your side. If they're not, they're not.

------------------------------------------

Can you demonstrate a single instance in history where incursion by niggers blacks has resulted in excellence, prosperity, or improvement owing to their presence, inventiveness, or disposition?

PSUSA2  posted on  2013-05-12   19:10:16 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#184. To: SKYDRIFTER (#141) (Edited)

You’re on the verge of becoming everyday automatic “attack sport;” as are any of your seeming supporters.

"Attack sport" targeting No Planers is the purpose of this thread.

If you’re truly interested in 9-11 “no-planes” facts; look to the 9-11 Pentagon and Shanksville. Those locations offer some of the most powerful truth to argue “inside-job.” The same WTC “no-planes” ignoramuses, fools, idiots and disinformationists won’t or can’t go there – for obvious reasons.

I don't know where you got that impression but let's move the jet airflow discussion to the Pentagon site for a moment and over the cars on the highway. If a high speed jet stream can flip planes, what's your thoughts on the impact of that or not to those cars?

Edited first sentence of last paragraph for grammar + 2nd quote section for strikethrough, spacing and highlighting.

-------

"They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC

GreyLmist  posted on  2013-05-12   19:15:16 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#185. To: titorite, PSUSA2, FormerLurker (#181)

What is your real name John Lear?

The question speaks to your intellectual limitations. A strong indication that you're not going to like what's coming at you.

SKYDRIFTER  posted on  2013-05-12   19:40:04 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#186. To: titorite, FormerLurker (#166)

Christine I think this problem is worth your time and attention. When you get the time to pay attention. I know you're a busy girl.

You whine like a little girl; bad move.


SKYDRIFTER  posted on  2013-05-12   19:46:05 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#187. To: GreyLmist (#184)

I don't know where you got that impression but let's move the jet airflow discussion to the Pentagon site for a moment and over the cars on the highway. If a high speed jet stream can flip planes, what's your thoughts on the impact of that or not to those cars?

I'm not aware of a case of high speed airfoil related forces flipping cars. Certainly not at the 9-11 Pentagon scenario - there is no viable evidence of an aircraft; as 'officially' claimed.

In an independent scenario, the engine thrust, well above idle thrust, of a parked jet transport can flip cars if they are close enough; that's evident in history.


SKYDRIFTER  posted on  2013-05-12   19:59:41 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#188. To: titorite, FormerLurker (#153)

ANYWAYS ,

I found a neat vid showing of the wake vortex effect here

cospilot.wordpress.com/20...ake-turbulence-explained/

Titorite, you dumb shit, you referred to a "wake turbulence" site. Not the same critter as "wake vortex;" Duh'oh!

By the way, where are all those "friends" you mentioned? OR, have you embarrassed them that badly? Nobody likes a dumb shit or a loser; you're both.

You've already been advised by a trusted name to back off; listen - don't think - just listen to obviously good advice.


SKYDRIFTER  posted on  2013-05-12   20:37:26 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#189. To: SKYDRIFTER, titorite (#141)

Please be advised that my aviation credentials are factual; not “alleged.” Comparably, your bullshit “no-planes” assertions are factual; not “alleged.”

The WTC “no-planes” issue has been competently debunked from early on. Only ignoramuses, fools, idiots and disinformationists go there.

If you’re truly interested in 9-11 “no-planes” facts; look to the 9-11 Pentagon and Shanksville. Those locations offer some of the most powerful truth to argue “inside-job.” The same WTC “no-planes” ignoramuses, fools, idiots and disinformationists won’t or can’t go there – for obvious reasons.

If you need or want a competent and detailed account of 9-11, please pack a big lunch and see:

“9-11 and the Truth”

I've read this. Very impressive, thank you.

According to the official line as conveyed through the media, 4 airliners crashed on 9/11.

We agree no plane hit the pentagon and no plane crashed in shanksville?

What gives you the idea a plane hit the wtc?

I mean, if a prosecutor were arguing a case to a jury, what evidence are you aware of that could be presented to prove a plane hit the wtc?


"If they can get you asking the wrong questions, they don't have to worry about answers" ~ Thomas Pynchon Gravity's Rainbow

wudidiz  posted on  2013-05-12   20:53:41 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#190. To: SKYDRIFTER, titorite, *No Planers*, *9-11* (#188)

referred to a "wake turbulence" site. Not the same critter as "wake vortex;"

Internet says it's the same thing?


"If they can get you asking the wrong questions, they don't have to worry about answers" ~ Thomas Pynchon Gravity's Rainbow

wudidiz  posted on  2013-05-12   20:56:02 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#191. To: SKYDRIFTER (#188)

Nobody likes a dumb shit or a loser; you're both.

I am both a loser and a dumb shit according to your foolish words

You know nothing but you come off like this and you think you are deserving of my respect.

Degenerate.

______________________________________

Suspect all media / resist bad propaganda/Learn NLP everyday everyway ;) (It's a more positive message)

titorite  posted on  2013-05-12   21:18:53 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#192. To: SKYDRIFTER (#186)

You whine like a little girl; bad move.

I remember a certain other Internet character who loved to ping Goldi-Lox everytime he had his ass handed to him.

BeAChooser's spirit lives on...


"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2013-05-12   22:12:40 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#193. To: titorite (#191)

Degenerate.

You have a way of projecting yourself onto others titOr ite.

To any neutral party watching this exchange, I'm sure they're well aware of who the degenerate here actually is.


"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2013-05-12   22:14:13 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#194. To: wudidiz (#189)

what evidence are you aware of that could be presented to prove a plane hit the wtc?

Airline records, witness statements, and video evidence.


"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2013-05-12   22:16:26 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#195. To: FormerLurker (#194)

where?


"If they can get you asking the wrong questions, they don't have to worry about answers" ~ Thomas Pynchon Gravity's Rainbow

wudidiz  posted on  2013-05-12   22:35:03 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#196. To: SKYDRIFTER (#87)

Wake turbulence is a feature of a slow-moving aircraft at takeoff and landing speeds 120 - 150 knots; with flaps extended.

eh?

In the internet age, think anyone is gonna buy this load specially when it is a breeze (no pun intended) to oogle Wake Turbulence?

Seriously?

What I am reading here, beside you claiming to be a pilot, is that wake Turbulence only, per your claim as a pilot, is a feature of a slow? (really) moving aircraft at take off and landing... no wake turbulence in mid flight?

Is this the final word and authority on wake turbulence vortexes?

SilverStorm  posted on  2013-05-12   22:37:18 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#197. To: wudidiz (#195)

where?

If you don't already know, I don't think there's any way of reaching you wud.


"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2013-05-12   23:25:03 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#198. To: SilverStorm, SKYDRIFTER (#196)

I don't know why SKYDRIFTER doesn't reveal his name since so many people here already know, but he IS an airline pilot, one who's written a thing or two in his day.


"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2013-05-12   23:31:00 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#199. To: SKYDRIFTER (#187)

there is no viable evidence of an aircraft; as 'officially' claimed.

The first minute of this video shows a press conference held by Porter Goss -the same Goss that had breakfast with the Financier of flight 77-Mahmud Ahmed-- on the morning of 911 - at the Capitol on that fateful day.

It must be after what happened in NY but before whatever happened at the Pentagon.

What is making the jet noise?

Aquila  posted on  2013-05-12   23:34:54 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#200. To: FormerLurker (#197)

where?

If you don't already know, I don't think there's any way of reaching you wud.

If all you have is claims with no basis, I'd appreciate it if you'd not address me at all especially when you're not the one I was asking.


"If they can get you asking the wrong questions, they don't have to worry about answers" ~ Thomas Pynchon Gravity's Rainbow

wudidiz  posted on  2013-05-12   23:40:55 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#201. To: Aquila (#199)

What is making the jet noise?

I'd say a jet aircraft for sure; but it occurs significantly after the presented/assumed "event" at the Pentagon.

SKYDRIFTER  posted on  2013-05-13   0:14:33 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#202. To: PSUSA2 (#111)

Your boat analogy doesn't cut it.

http://www.grc.nasa.gov/WWW/k-12/airplane/downwash.html

http://www.flywestwind.com/wtc/pprograms/turbulance.htm

Boats do not have wings. Wings are necessary in order to generate wingtip vortices. Airplanes do not fly on water.

I believe you are saying these things because you believe it all sounds right to you.

Yes it does, the boat analogy is perfect for the wake can physically be seen on the surface of the water whereas it is much harder to spot it in atmosphere.

from another site that is not affiliated with the disinfo agents (USofA) ;)

Wake Vortex Turbulence Categories: Wake Vortex Turbulence | Operational Issues

Definition

Wake Vortex Turbulence is defined as turbulence which is generated by the passage of an aircraft in flight. It will be generated from the point when the nose landing gear of an aircraft leaves the ground on take off and will cease to be generated when the nose landing gear touches the ground during landing. Where another aircraft encounters such turbulence, a Wake Vortex Encounter (WVE) is said to have occurred.

Description

Potentially hazardous turbulence in the wake of an aircraft in flight is principally caused by wing tip vortices. This type of turbulence is significant because wing tip vortices decay quite slowly and can produce a significant rotational influence on an aircraft encountering them for several minutes after they have been generated. Jet Efflux and Prop Wash can also hazard the control of an aircraft both on the ground and in the air but, whilst these effects are often extreme, their effects are more short-lived.

www.skybrary.aero/index.php/Wake_Vortex_Turbulence

It is not because a plane suddenly stop flying, in this case "crashed" into a building, that the wake vortex turbulence stops automatically, it continues until the momentum it gained is lost.

Kanuck education system is flawed but not enough that we are not taught this in depth when in college attending physics class.

Sheesh you guys, Is this common sense trying to prevail over science or science used to prevail over common sense...

This is why planes cannot take off one after the other, they have to wait for the vortex to dissipate in order to take off safely when taking off on the same runway.

SilverStorm  posted on  2013-05-13   0:57:50 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#203. To: FormerLurker (#155)

No way.

And no way are you rustyrail from LP. You are an imposter.

Why should this pertinent to this thread?

Character assassination is the tool per excellence used by dis info agents. Cannot attack efficiently what Titorite is saying, then resort to discredit him... ooooooo, but but but, you cannot be that person from LP.

have a case of the lolz

LOL

SilverStorm  posted on  2013-05-13   1:20:08 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#204. To: SilverStorm, SKYDRIFTER, *9-11* (#203)

Character assassination is the tool per excellence used by dis info agents.

So I suppose you're blind to the fact he attacked me first and hurled MUCH worse accusations towards me.

Yep, you're another "no-planer" aren't you.

You've decided to attack ME when all I said to YOU was that SKYDRIFTER is a known person here. So you figured you'd go on the counter attack with just that, eh?


"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2013-05-13   1:23:57 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#205. To: PSUSA2 (#167)

because this thread is a mess.

Amen to THAT!

With the likes of Tweedle Dee and Tweedle Dum showing up, this thread degenerated into a monkey feces throwing contest.

About to crawl back on my comfortable, highly colorful mushroom and smoke some more.

Just need to finish this long ass thread with it's oh so many personal attack to keep up with what the husband is trying to relate to when he is talking about y'all.

Peace

SilverStorm  posted on  2013-05-13   1:30:02 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#206. To: FormerLurker (#171)

As I said, you are not here to debate, you are here to attack those who DO provide factual information.

Yes, all 3000 of them!

Why is it so important to link Titorite to LP? And why do you care so much about following him around like a cat in heat?

Just curious about your motivations.

SilverStorm  posted on  2013-05-13   1:47:06 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#207. To: Aquila, *9-11* (#199)

The first minute of this video shows a press conference held by Porter Goss [sic] at the Capitol on that fateful day.

It must be after what happened in NY but before whatever happened at the Pentagon.

What is making the jet noise?

Cross-referencing two posts at 4um Title: Former pilot and 9/11 conspiracy theorist shoots and kills 2 teen children, then himself | Link for the video posted there and above: 9/11: Is this AA Flight 77? And what is this explosion?

Post #220: at 2:05 of that video, Goss says that he got to the office of the Speaker of the House, Dennis Hastert, just as the plane hit the Pentagon; [sic] From that statement about the timing of his arrival at Hastert's office, it can be presumed that the clip of him in a press interview at the beginning of the video (with booming and plane sound effects) was not filmed during the Pentagon attack.

Post #205: Most interesting, imo, was G.W. Bush's statements starting at 5:58 that indicate he flew by the Pentagon, in a helicopter, while it was still in flames.

-------

"They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC

GreyLmist  posted on  2013-05-13   1:51:34 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#208. To: FormerLurker (#204)

Yep, you're another "no-planer" aren't you.

So I suppose you're blind to the fact he attacked me first and hurled MUCH worse accusations towards me.

That is Mrs. no-planer to you :)

You gonna cry about that? Let me get a camera and film this for posterity :o)

SilverStorm  posted on  2013-05-13   3:55:44 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#209. To: SilverStorm (#208)

That is Mrs. no-planer to you :)

:)

-------

"They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC

GreyLmist  posted on  2013-05-13   5:51:00 ET  (1 image) Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#210. To: SKYDRIFTER (#188)

You've already been advised by a trusted name to back off; listen - don't think - just listen to obviously good advice.

I want you to know that is a lie on your part. I have not sought nor received any advice regarding you.

I will tell you this much though. When I see two friends fighting I do not get in the middle nor do I take sides. Not all of my friends get along with each other. I do not insist that they do. I love my friends just the way they are.

And now to quote another lie from you skydrifter

Any pertinent/significant volume of following "inertial" airflow would possess a "compression" effect; which would diminish such as "wake vortex."

A fast moving aircraft would have a certain magnitude of "bow wave;" but it wouldn't have any significant or pertinent role worth mentioning in titorite's scenario.

..... My scenario is 911. I don't know what you think I am talking about but I am talking about the events of September eleventh. If you are going to engage in this conversation please keep up with the subject matter . Planes drag air. That dragged air spins into neat vortex. When a plane crashes it brings that dragged air with it all the way into the crash... Because the air dragging behind a plane has a momentum of its own.

I wish your high school science teacher had spent more time on Newton with you.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drafting_%28aerodynamics%29

I didn't "call" anyone anything.

Ignoramuses, fools, idiots and disinformationists , thats what you called me and anyone else who is a proponent of the new plane theory.

Which makes you the hypocrite too... http://www.thepentacon.com/russell-pickering.htm

Kinda like this guy.

...this is gonna be my last word to you for awhile sky.

..... I've decided to bozo you out.

duces.

______________________________________

Suspect all media / resist bad propaganda/Learn NLP everyday everyway ;) (It's a more positive message)

titorite  posted on  2013-05-13   6:33:38 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#211. To: SilverStorm (#202)

It is not because a plane suddenly stop flying, in this case "crashed" into a building, that the wake vortex turbulence stops automatically, it continues until the momentum it gained is lost.

It doesn't retain forward momentum after a crash because there is no forward momentum.

Everyone with an interest in aviation knows that these vortices can last for a period of time. No one is arguing that point.

Now what does all this have to do with "no planes"?

------------------------------------------

Can you demonstrate a single instance in history where incursion by niggers blacks has resulted in excellence, prosperity, or improvement owing to their presence, inventiveness, or disposition?

PSUSA2  posted on  2013-05-13   7:30:17 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#212. To: PSUSA2 (#211) (Edited)

You do know that you can stand to learn more about this subject PUSA?

The vortcies created by planes do indeed have a forward momentum. If they did not they could not be created in the first place. Forward is part of the spin in regards to the vortex.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wingtip_vortices

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dra...ynamics%29#Vortex_surfing

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lifting-line_theory

just saying.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wake

That link has both water and air wakes to learn about ;)

______________________________________

Suspect all media / resist bad propaganda/Learn NLP everyday everyway ;) (It's a more positive message)

titorite  posted on  2013-05-13   8:21:09 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#213. To: titorite (#212)

The vortcies created by planes do indeed have a forward momentum. If they did not they could not be created in the first place. Forward is part of the spin in regards to the vortex.

Proof. you are lacking proof.

Dont paste links. Anyone can do that. Post the proof and the source that vortices can overshoot a wing if a plane crashes into a building.

And what does this have to do with 9/11 PRECISELY????

I dont give a damn about vortices. That is because they have not been shown to be relevant to anything that happened on 9/11.

So, why the focus on vortices? Please answer that, clearly and concisely.

------------------------------------------

Can you demonstrate a single instance in history where incursion by niggers blacks has resulted in excellence, prosperity, or improvement owing to their presence, inventiveness, or disposition?

PSUSA2  posted on  2013-05-13   8:32:17 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#214. To: PSUSA2 (#213)

So, why the focus on vortices? Please answer that, clearly and concisely.

OK... I have tried explaining this to you more than once...

YOu ask for proof but then say don't post links...

So you do not want any proof? or you wants pics. maybe videos... and you don't want me to link that stuff because????

As for why they are relevant; it is because they were present even if you can not see them with the naked eye. The air behind a wing still spins even if their is no smoke to make the act of observation easier.

On 911 we had lots of smoke and two fire balls.

If the wake vortex was really there we would be able to see the evidence of it. That it is NOT present indicates the things that should of caused the wake vortexes may not be real.

Some of this information could be found in those links.

YOur saying that the vortex has no forward momentum... How much do you know about this shit PUSA? Can you regurgitate it to me? Do you know what you are looking for should you attempt to look this shit up online?

encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.co...jHPNTCKBM-BnT-omeUWx4BE-A

Just to say, the effect follows the plane.... if the plane slams into the ground then the effect follows the plane into the ground.

You act as though david copperfield is responsible for flight and that these contrails magically switch on and off.... That is not how it works.... They take alot of momentum to form in the first place and they take a while to dissipate and if the bird making em flys into something and explodes the wake will following into the explosion.

....

I don't know what to say now.... I wanna link a video but you want proof and you want it now and you want it concise and you don't want any links.....'

Seems like the end of the line.

______________________________________

Suspect all media / resist bad propaganda/Learn NLP everyday everyway ;) (It's a more positive message)

titorite  posted on  2013-05-13   9:17:44 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#215. To: All (#214)

I think you depend on me too much to make up your mind for you PUSA.. that or you give not a shit about this and you are just egging me on ad nasum because you think it is fun and nothing I do , say, or provide will be enough for you...

Some people still think box cutters brought down the towers. I am not comfortable with that. I am only comfortable with the truth... no matter how nasty.

______________________________________

Suspect all media / resist bad propaganda/Learn NLP everyday everyway ;) (It's a more positive message)

titorite  posted on  2013-05-13   9:20:23 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#216. To: titorite (#214)

On 911 we had lots of smoke and two fire balls.

If the wake vortex was really there we would be able to see the evidence of it. That it is NOT present indicates the things that should of caused the wake vortexes may not be real.

OK now we're getting somewhere. Finally.

The only way you'd see evidence of it (vortices) is if the plane flew thru smoke/fire.

Did that (plane flying thru smoke/fire) happen? Or did it not happen?

Evidently you claim that (flying thru smoke/fire) didn't happen, thereby proving by the lack of vortices that no planes were involved. Right?

Is that what you're saying?

------------------------------------------

Can you demonstrate a single instance in history where incursion by niggers blacks has resulted in excellence, prosperity, or improvement owing to their presence, inventiveness, or disposition?

PSUSA2  posted on  2013-05-13   9:29:27 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#217. To: PSUSA2 (#216)

OK now we're getting somewhere. Finally.

The only way you'd see evidence of it (vortices) is if the plane flew thru smoke/fire.

Did that (plane flying thru smoke/fire) happen? Or did it not happen?

Evidently you claim that (flying thru smoke/fire) didn't happen, thereby proving by the lack of vortices that no planes were involved. Right?

Is that what you're saying?

Ok, now I am fairly certain you are just fucking with me.

You can "see" vortex in smoke, dust, thermal imaging (flicker cam), derbies...

If nothing is there it is still present.

It is an after effect of flight itself. Of the wings cutting through the air (you could educate yourself better if you were so inclined). It is present whether you can see it or not. It is a spiraling of air that follows the path of its creation.

If the plane flys south the wake vortex goes south. If the plane goes north then the wake vortex goes north.

The the plane crashes no new spiraling creation occurs.

The spiral of air already created will continue to spiral in the direction of its creation.

The spinning spiral wake of air does not instantly stop. It does not disperse immediately. It continues spinning in cycles outwards and forwards ever expanding into the entropy that is eventual dissipation.

The plane may crash but the wake vortex will live on for a moment longer. Long enough to follow through and into the fireball.

Here is a video link you don't want

www.youtube.com/watch?v=krL4fkrySZ4

Watch it or don't.... It proly doesn't matter.

What does matter is that if the wind following the plane has NO forward momentum then it can not really follow anything.

Jesus... It is like you are saying a trailer hauling liquid doesn't continue moving forward if you slam on your truck brakes.

Momentum.

It is a real thing.

______________________________________

Suspect all media / resist bad propaganda/Learn NLP everyday everyway ;) (It's a more positive message)

titorite  posted on  2013-05-13   9:47:00 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  



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