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Title: Couples faith in "jesus" gets them nothing but 2 dead kids and a murder charge(my title)
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URL Source: http://news.yahoo.com/dead-pa-babys ... -divine-healing-025704613.html
Published: May 25, 2013
Author: j
Post Date: 2013-05-25 07:58:50 by PSUSA2
Keywords: None
Views: 2930
Comments: 177
PHILADELPHIA (AP) — After their 2-year-old son died of untreated pneumonia in 2009, faith-healing advocates Herbert and Catherine Schaible promised a judge they would not let another sick child go without medical care. But now they've lost an 8-month-old to what a prosecutor called "eerily similar" circumstances. And instead of another involuntary manslaughter charge, they're now charged with third-degree murder. "We believe in divine healing, that Jesus shed blood for our healing and that he died on the cross to break the devil's power," Herbert Schaible, 44, told Philadelphia homicide detectives after their ninth child, Brandon, died in April. Medicine, he said, "is against our religious beliefs." The Schaibles were ordered held without bail Friday, two days after their arrest, although defense lawyers argued that they are neither a flight risk nor a danger to the community. "He is incarcerated because of his faith," said lawyer Bobby Hoof, who described client Herbert Schaible's mindset as resolute. "He's strong willed," Hoof said. "(Yet) he's mourning this son. He's hurting as any dad would." The only people theoretically at risk are the couple's seven surviving children, who are now in foster care, the lawyers said. A judge acknowledged that the couple had never missed a court date in the first case but said he worried that might change amid the more serious charges. And he feared they may have supporters who would harbor them. "Throughout this country ... there are churches like the Schaibles' whose members and leaders probably don't think they did anything wrong and might be willing — to paraphrase the Schaibles' pastor — to put their interpretation of God's will above the law," Common Pleas Judge Benjamin Lerner said. About a dozen children die each year in the U.S. when parents turn to faith healing instead of medicine, typically from highly treatable problems, said Shawn Francis Peters, a University of Wisconsin lecturer who has studied faith-healing deaths. In Oregon, four couples from a faith-healing church have been prosecuted, the most recent in 2011 when a couple was sentenced to more than six years in prison for manslaughter in the death of their newborn son. The state legislature that year removed faith healing as a defense to murder charges. Members of the Followers of Christ have consistently refused to speak with journalists. Defense lawyer Mark Cogan declined to comment Friday on whether the legal actions have changed the practice of any church members. Some testified at the 2011 trial that they do get medical care. At the Schaibles' sentencing in February 2011 in their son Kent's death, they agreed to follow terms of the 10-year probation, which included an order to get their children regular checkups and sick visits as needed. Catherine Schaible, 43, let her husband speak for her and never addressed the judge. "It's very clear that the law says that religious freedom is trumped by the safety of a child," Common Pleas Judge Carolyn Engel Temin explained. But a transcript of a later probation hearing that year shows probation officers were confused by their mandate to oversee the required medical care and felt powerless to carry it out. The family was not being monitored by child-welfare workers, who are more accustomed to dealing with medical compliance. "I think that we all on the jury thought that it would not happen again, that whatever social and legal institutions needed to be involved in their situation would just take over ... and that the mandated visits would be robust enough that they would not be able to do this again," Vincent Bertolini, a former college professor who served as jury foreman at the Schaibles' first trial, said Friday. That jury convicted the couple of involuntary manslaughter and child endangerment. Like other cases Peters has studied, the Schaibles belong to a small, insular circle of believers. Both are third-generation members and former teachers at their fundamentalist Christian church, the First Century Gospel Church in northeast Philadelphia. Their pastor, Nelson Clark, has said the Schaibles lost their sons because of a "spiritual lack" in their lives and insisted they would not seek medical care even if another child appeared near death. He did not return phone messages this month, but he told The Associated Press in 2011 that his church is not a cult, and he faulted officials for trying to force his members into "the flawed medical system," which he blamed for 100,000 deaths a year. "These are people who have been brought up in these communities; their beliefs are reinforced every day," Peters said. "They're not trained intellectually to question these doctrines, where the rest of us might engage in critical inquiry, weighing the benefits of medicine versus the benefits of prayer." A handful of families, including one in western Pennsylvania, have lost two children after attempts at faith healing, according to Peters, who wrote "When Prayer Fails: Faith Healing, Children and the Law." Peters isn't sure that courts have the means to prevent the problem, since such people don't fear legal punishment, only Judgment Day. Some believe death "is a good outcome," given their belief in the afterlife, he said. "They don't want to harm their children. They're just in this particularly narrow — and very, very dangerous — way misguided about the potential of medical science," he said. He believes that "empathetic" intervention, through dialogue between church and public health educators, could help some "get to a point where they allow their beliefs and practices to evolve." But there's a risk that could backfire, and drive these communities further underground, he said. For the Schaibles, a third-degree murder conviction could bring seven to 14 years in prison or more. Said Assistant District Attorney Joanne Pescatore: "Somebody is dead now as a result of what they did — or didn't do."
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Begin Trace Mode for Comment # 108.
#25. To: PSUSA2 (#0)
A dozen........that must be an epidemic. 6,700 die in automobiles. OUTLAW CHILDREN IN CARS!!!! 1,000 drown to death.......OUTLAW CHILDREN AND WATER!!!! 540 die the horrible death by fire.....OUTLAW ALL FIRE!!! 970 die of unintentional poisoning and 133 intentional is this close to an epidemic yet? 1260 die of unintentional suffocation and strangulation and 740 from intentional suffocation and strangulation. 138 from firearm accidents and 2200 firearm homicides and 680 firearm suicides. Thousands more children die from the cure after SEEKING medical "expertise" than the dozen that die from not seeking it......do they matter? Now for medicated children.....25 percent of children in the U.S. were on regular medication. 45 million children are on asthma medications, 24 million are on ADHD medications, almost 10 million are on antidepressants with another six and a half million on other antipsychotics. Then there are the antihypertensives, the sleep aids, the medications for Type 2 diabetes and high cholesterol, and on and on. 45 Million kids are popping pills and going to the doctor...aren't your relieved! Nothing to see here Looky Lou, keep your eye on the 12 that didn't get medical attention while 45 million keep popping pills that kill thousands under doctor supervision.
Really? Don't look at the child mortality rates of the 1800's and early 1900's. You'll REALLY fly off the handle if you did that. Those medicines (and vaccines lol) save kids lives.
Proper water and sewage systems have saved far more lives than pharmaceuticals, yet I see so few commercials for drainage tile. What gives?
It stops cholera. Small pox and polio, not so much.
Not been a polio outbreak in Indy for nigh on three years now.
Not been a polio outbreak in Indy for nigh on three years now. Why haven't they found a CURE for small pox and polio in all these years? Wouldn't it be a devastating loss in revenue to cure?
So, do you build your own car? Car makers rake in that eeeevillll revenue to provide a product. They should do it for free, right? Or how about this, since a car is not needed and is a luxury. Do you raise all of your own food? Either you have it or you die. So, that should be supplied for free? Those farmers are screwing you by charging eeeeevilll money. If you've never had polio or smallpox because you've been vaccinated, that is better than a cure. You all have been vaccinated, right? Those evil doctors injected you with that awful poison that you try and save others from, right? You'd deny people the same protection you (presumably) already have?
More than a few people have contracted polio FROM the vaccine itself, in fact it was the ONLY known cause of infection at the time. The smallpox vaccine HAS led to massive epidemics throughout Europe leading to HUGE numbers of fatalities. Almost ALL of those people HAD been vaccinated.
I never said it was without risk. If it wasn't for the vaccines, how many would have it now?
One of the inventors of the polio vaccine, Dr. Jonas Salk, had this to say... From HISTORICAL FACTS EXPOSING THE DANGERS AND INEFFECTIVENESS OF VACCINES As far as the disease itself, it's a disease which is transmitted by fecal matter, passed to other humans by ingestion. It used to be transmitted in public pools where certain people (immigrants from areas where hygene isn't what it is here today) would spread it to others by dipping in the same pool as them. It was also most likely transmitted by the handling of produce such as lettuce and other vegetables found at the market. Those with unclean hands (who don't wash them after wiping their butts for instance), would handle them and put them back down, then someone else would buy it and eat it, probably without washing it first. So with the addition of chlorine into public pools, and treatment of public drinking water with chlorine, the spread of polio was seriously stopped. Awareness and better hygene, including rinsing of vegetables from the market, is what stopped polio, not the vaccines. Here a graph which illustrates the point.
That's an interesting link.
That term is not defined. It's left to the readers imagination to guess what it means.
Let me give you a few examples. Two of the most horrible practices is injecting newborn babies with Hepatitis B vaccine. The other is urging young girls and their parents that those girls absolutely should take the Gardisal vaccine. In the first instance there is ABSOLUTELY no need to "vaccinate" a baby against Hepatitis B since the only ways it can be transmitted is by sexual intercourse and the sharing of dirty needles from intravenous drug use. Any claimed immunity from the disease is short lived, where it is claimed to last for up to 10 years. Are they expecting babies to start having sex or share dirty needles during their first 10 years? Autism has skyrocketed with the introduction of that vaccine to the mandated vaccine schedule. Should we not rethink this practice? Then there's Gardisal. A number of young girls died soon after the injection, others became crippled and are most likely never going to have a normal life. They KNOW these things happen yet peddle it as if it were perfectly safe to young girls. That's besides the fact the vaccine most likely does NOT prevent anything at all, it actually has caused wart breakouts over the entire body, and is even reported to increase the likelihood of contracting cervical cancer in those who may already have been exposed to any of the viruses claimed to be prevented by the vaccine, the very thing it was claimed to prevent.
pediatrics.about.com/od/w...stion/a/0408_hepb_vac.htm Gardasil is probably not so good, from what I find.
#109. To: PSUSA2 (#108)
I wouldn't believe everything you read when it comes from those who market the vaccine for profit. As with everything you have to challenge the assertions made by pharmaceutical companies and consider the fact babies have been born for millions of years without receiving that shot at birth and were fine. The fact is that there ARE serious side effects. My own daughter was perfectly healthy at birth, then within an hour of having been injected with the vaccine went into respiratory distress and spent the next several days in the ICU. She fully recovered thankfully, but I'm sure there are others who weren't so lucky.
Top • Page Up • Full Thread • Page Down • Bottom/LatestAbout a dozen children die each year in the U.S. when parents turn to faith healing instead of medicine,
#32. To: abraxas (#25)
Thousands more children die from the cure after SEEKING medical "expertise" than the dozen that die from not seeking it......do they matter?
#36. To: PSUSA2 (#32)
#54. To: Dakmar (#36)
Proper water and sewage systems have saved far more lives than pharmaceuticals, yet I see so few commercials for drainage tile. What gives?
#56. To: PSUSA2 (#54)
Small pox and polio, not so much.
#58. To: Dakmar, PSUSA2 (#56)
Small pox and polio, not so much.
#74. To: abraxas (#58)
Why haven't they found a CURE for small pox and polio in all these years? Wouldn't it be a devastating loss in revenue to cure?
#76. To: PSUSA2, abraxas (#74)
If you've never had polio or smallpox because you've been vaccinated, that is better than a cure.
#78. To: FormerLurker (#76)
More than a few people have contracted polio FROM the vaccine itself, in fact it was the ONLY known cause of infection at the time.
#98. To: PSUSA2, abraxas (#78)
(Edited)
If it wasn't for the vaccines, how many would have it now?
In 1977, Dr Jonas Salk who developed the first polio vaccine, testified along with other scientists, that mass inoculation against polio was the cause of most polio cases throughout the USA since 1961. (Science 4/4/77 "Abstracts" )
#100. To: FormerLurker, 4um (#98)
HISTORICAL FACTS EXPOSING THE DANGERS AND INEFFECTIVENESS OF VACCINES
In the USA, from July 1990 to November 1993, the US Food and Drug Administration counted a total of 54,072 adverse reactions following vaccination. The FDA admitted that this number represented only 10% of the real total, because most doctors were refusing to report vaccine injuries. In other words, adverse reactions for this period exceeded half a million! (National Vaccine Information Centre, March 2, 1994)
#104. To: Esso (#100)
adverse reactions
#106. To: PSUSA2, Esso (#104)
That term is not defined. It's left to the readers imagination to guess what it means.
#108. To: FormerLurker (#106)
injecting newborn babies with Hepatitis B vaccine.
Replies to Comment # 108. pediatrics.about.com/od/w...stion/a/0408_hepb_vac.htm
End Trace Mode for Comment # 108.