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Title: Couples faith in "jesus" gets them nothing but 2 dead kids and a murder charge(my title)
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URL Source: http://news.yahoo.com/dead-pa-babys ... -divine-healing-025704613.html
Published: May 25, 2013
Author: j
Post Date: 2013-05-25 07:58:50 by PSUSA2
Keywords: None
Views: 3001
Comments: 177
PHILADELPHIA (AP) — After their 2-year-old son died of untreated pneumonia in 2009, faith-healing advocates Herbert and Catherine Schaible promised a judge they would not let another sick child go without medical care. But now they've lost an 8-month-old to what a prosecutor called "eerily similar" circumstances. And instead of another involuntary manslaughter charge, they're now charged with third-degree murder. "We believe in divine healing, that Jesus shed blood for our healing and that he died on the cross to break the devil's power," Herbert Schaible, 44, told Philadelphia homicide detectives after their ninth child, Brandon, died in April. Medicine, he said, "is against our religious beliefs." The Schaibles were ordered held without bail Friday, two days after their arrest, although defense lawyers argued that they are neither a flight risk nor a danger to the community. "He is incarcerated because of his faith," said lawyer Bobby Hoof, who described client Herbert Schaible's mindset as resolute. "He's strong willed," Hoof said. "(Yet) he's mourning this son. He's hurting as any dad would." The only people theoretically at risk are the couple's seven surviving children, who are now in foster care, the lawyers said. A judge acknowledged that the couple had never missed a court date in the first case but said he worried that might change amid the more serious charges. And he feared they may have supporters who would harbor them. "Throughout this country ... there are churches like the Schaibles' whose members and leaders probably don't think they did anything wrong and might be willing — to paraphrase the Schaibles' pastor — to put their interpretation of God's will above the law," Common Pleas Judge Benjamin Lerner said. About a dozen children die each year in the U.S. when parents turn to faith healing instead of medicine, typically from highly treatable problems, said Shawn Francis Peters, a University of Wisconsin lecturer who has studied faith-healing deaths. In Oregon, four couples from a faith-healing church have been prosecuted, the most recent in 2011 when a couple was sentenced to more than six years in prison for manslaughter in the death of their newborn son. The state legislature that year removed faith healing as a defense to murder charges. Members of the Followers of Christ have consistently refused to speak with journalists. Defense lawyer Mark Cogan declined to comment Friday on whether the legal actions have changed the practice of any church members. Some testified at the 2011 trial that they do get medical care. At the Schaibles' sentencing in February 2011 in their son Kent's death, they agreed to follow terms of the 10-year probation, which included an order to get their children regular checkups and sick visits as needed. Catherine Schaible, 43, let her husband speak for her and never addressed the judge. "It's very clear that the law says that religious freedom is trumped by the safety of a child," Common Pleas Judge Carolyn Engel Temin explained. But a transcript of a later probation hearing that year shows probation officers were confused by their mandate to oversee the required medical care and felt powerless to carry it out. The family was not being monitored by child-welfare workers, who are more accustomed to dealing with medical compliance. "I think that we all on the jury thought that it would not happen again, that whatever social and legal institutions needed to be involved in their situation would just take over ... and that the mandated visits would be robust enough that they would not be able to do this again," Vincent Bertolini, a former college professor who served as jury foreman at the Schaibles' first trial, said Friday. That jury convicted the couple of involuntary manslaughter and child endangerment. Like other cases Peters has studied, the Schaibles belong to a small, insular circle of believers. Both are third-generation members and former teachers at their fundamentalist Christian church, the First Century Gospel Church in northeast Philadelphia. Their pastor, Nelson Clark, has said the Schaibles lost their sons because of a "spiritual lack" in their lives and insisted they would not seek medical care even if another child appeared near death. He did not return phone messages this month, but he told The Associated Press in 2011 that his church is not a cult, and he faulted officials for trying to force his members into "the flawed medical system," which he blamed for 100,000 deaths a year. "These are people who have been brought up in these communities; their beliefs are reinforced every day," Peters said. "They're not trained intellectually to question these doctrines, where the rest of us might engage in critical inquiry, weighing the benefits of medicine versus the benefits of prayer." A handful of families, including one in western Pennsylvania, have lost two children after attempts at faith healing, according to Peters, who wrote "When Prayer Fails: Faith Healing, Children and the Law." Peters isn't sure that courts have the means to prevent the problem, since such people don't fear legal punishment, only Judgment Day. Some believe death "is a good outcome," given their belief in the afterlife, he said. "They don't want to harm their children. They're just in this particularly narrow — and very, very dangerous — way misguided about the potential of medical science," he said. He believes that "empathetic" intervention, through dialogue between church and public health educators, could help some "get to a point where they allow their beliefs and practices to evolve." But there's a risk that could backfire, and drive these communities further underground, he said. For the Schaibles, a third-degree murder conviction could bring seven to 14 years in prison or more. Said Assistant District Attorney Joanne Pescatore: "Somebody is dead now as a result of what they did — or didn't do."
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#124. To: FormerLurker (#122)
You damned skippy, buddy! We saw Bush mandate expensive anthrax shots for stateside civilian aircraft maintenance crews here in Delaware in case they're "sent to the hot zone as an emergency measure." We lost several career C5 Galaxy pilots here (Dover AFB) who resigned from the Air Force instead of risking permanent injury from the shots. Those pilots cost a mil a piece to train and they've never been replaced. Who is this madman who weakened America's defenses to enrich his pals in the experimental vaccine biz? Congress actually loaned the company (Bush's and Clinton's pals) the money to buy the lab from the state of Michigan so they could produce then sell the vaccine to the govt, and then everyone but the K9 patrol DAWGs was required to have the shots. One loyal air force career non com decided to trust his govt rather than join the civilians trying to survive in the job market desert. Shortly after he began the three-shot series he awoke and fell from his bunk with tremors, unable to stand. Needless to say the military doctors don't know what the ailment is, but they damn sure know what it isn't! ("Bush's pals' vaccine, No we don't think it's that") It was just last year that the Satan worshiping govt then outlawed hundreds of ordinary generic drugs (around 90 drugs which translated into hundreds by different competing manufacturers) to force people (or their insurance companies) to buy the brand name meds. One of the banned drugs is ordinary quinine. (Gin and tonic was to head off malaria in 19th century British outposts) And last year the govt came within a hair's breadth of mandating the flu vaccine for every American who "uses any federally funded highway or breathes US Govt air". I could feel it in my bones that they were trying to come up with a way to force it upon us. And, every time I spoke with any doctor or health care provider they asked if I'd had my flu shot! "Of course!", I cheerfully lied. I've never had one and after the shot during the winter of 1970-71 almost killed my sweet mother I vowed never to let them stick me with their supposed-to-be-attenuated-but-actually-live-viruses. And you may have noticed that no one ever goes to jail for the resulting deaths. So, you're absolutely correct to point out that profit is one of if not the primary engine of the culture of vaccines. (pun intended) The way it was explained to me was, BIG PHARMA not only has no new drug patents to roll in the gold, but they've actually lost money after being forced to pull several new drugs from the market after they correlated with increased heart attacks or whatever. (like VIOXX) But, the US Congress is nothing if not loyal to generous supporters of the permanent congress for life incumbency fund. And, after actually viewing the half meg of plastic caskets stored in GA on GOOGLE satellite, I'm convinced that the govt intends to use a killer vaccine to rid themselves of millions of pain in the ass, social security and Medicare-consuming Americans. It may not be until the second or third flu season, and then "Whoopsie! I made a boo boo. I opened the wrong fridge and accidentally grabbed the vial with the skull & crossbones on it, and I sent it out for culturing by accident! Well, there goes my holiday bonus!" Of course he or she will probably get a raise and promotion like so many players after the govt rebellion of 9/11.
Not certain what year it was but I took one of the damnable flu shots one year and it gave me the worst flu I ever had. Combine that with the asthma I already had and that $#it just about had me in the grave. I will never, ever take another flu shot and if they insist I will tell them ef you, just go ahead and shoot me because that will be quicker and easier. Paul Craig Roberts
My case is that an increase in care, money and drugs is RESULTING in more deaths. Do you not understand that? The question should be what is the solution? If more care, more money and more drugs is resulting in MORE DEATH, why do you support a continuation of very expensive failure that is leading to MORE, not less, deaths? More money, more care, and more drugs is working in the wrong direction. Yet, it continues.... cui bono? More people die of drug interactions than auto accidents in this nation every years.......more doctors prescribing more drugs for more money equals more death for all demographics. Again, who benefits? " If you cannot govern yourself, you will be governed by assholes. " Randge, Poet de Forum, 1/11/11 "Life's tough, and even tougher if you're stupid." --John Wayne
I agree. Although it was quietly announced that the 70-71 shot killed more people than the flu, that has happened more often than the profiteers and ersatz govt regulators would ever admit, at least until the treason trials and pock marked firing squad wall is looming over their uncertain futures. Our govt is so big and unwieldy that the trusting American people relinquished any hope of regaining control through peaceful means long ago. They (not we) now have entire govts within the govt that the president's security clearance doesn't qualify him to review or oversee. And every gadfly that gets too close to the ugly truth commits suicide with five shots to the back of his head, or other suspicious circs that are intended to send a message. Our media is as dutiful and compliant as PRAVDA ever was during the KGB's glory years. The US Media tells us that our govt operates with no more oversight or conscience than the sleeziest banana republic. All one needs to do is read between the lines. Between the manipulators (Edward Bernays School) and the fear mongers (masked ninjas that stomp poodles into jelly before shooting granny stone cold- at the wrong address- the message is clear: There is no penalty for a govt sniper who misses his target, a man who was wrongfully wounded and a mother killed under field improvised rules of engagement. The Federal govt is now the de facto sovereign and in open rebellion. And none dare say its name. The term "treason" has been stricken from the American dialectic. Let's not bother using it anymore. It has no more utility than the once common tool known as a "buggy whip".
Excellent and well stated.
Paul Craig Roberts
Thank you my friend. Yesterday the guy at the DMV told me that a federally compliant driver's license or ID will be required to travel "within the country and to enter federal installations." You may recall the recent announcement that the govt intends to establish a zone, something like ten miles within the coastline, and to disenfranchise native born Americans who don't jump through the hoops to obtain the required permissions slips. Again I ask, who are these people behind the curtain who believe they have the power to declare the American experiment dead? It's no coincidence that I never see elected officials glad handing in public anymore. (What the Hell was Rep. Gabby Gifford and Judge John Roll thinking? Didn't they get the memo that the govt's rebellion was in progress?) We are now ruled over by an ivory tower govt and all town hall meetings shall be conducted by phone until further notice. They know they're doing wrong and they're waiting to see if the American people remain asleep through it. It also happens to coincide with the sudden disappearance of all ammo, and production seems to be at a dead stop.
"Society" even forces drugs on your pets. I had what I refer to as the "Animal Control Nazis" harassing me a few years ago. They showed up, claiming my two elderly pet cats were sick and needed to go to the vet. They were not sick at that time. I was served with a notice to appear in court to prove I had complied with their order. Anyway, I took 'em to the vet for their required checkups and required vaccinations. They both became dehydrated within days of the shots, contracted the worst cases of diarrhea I ever saw, lost weight quickly and died within two months of the required vaccines. If not for those "Animal Control Nazis" and the shots they ordered, my two elderly cats would still be alive and well.
I just wish more Mexicans believed in faith healing.
"Mr. Prime Minister, there is only one important question facing us, and that is the question whether the white race will survive." -- Leonid Brezhnev to James Callahan
Yes. " The question should be what is the solution? If more care, more money and more drugs is resulting in MORE DEATH, why do you support a continuation of very expensive failure that is leading to MORE, not less, deaths? " If you have the wrong variables, you won't get a right solution. And you are missing a variable here: How many of those 11,000 dead were under prenatal care? If you don't know that, you won't come up with a solution. Do you understand that? ------------------------------------------ THey that bad? I've never lived around them. I've just dealt with them at work, warehouses / docks, etc. If I saw blacks, I knew I'd be there a while. Mexicans worked fast, never a problem. ------------------------------------------ Well said !
Strange times are these in which we live when old and young are taught in falsehood’s school. And the one man who dares to tell the truth is called at once a lunatic and fool. – Plato (429-347 BC)
While I wouldn't deny that many jews are undermining the country I can't say it's ALL of them. Your responses to people's Christian beliefs are pretty vicious. Not everyone will come to the same conclusions and even if they do they usually occur at different times. Strange times are these in which we live when old and young are taught in falsehood’s school. And the one man who dares to tell the truth is called at once a lunatic and fool. – Plato (429-347 BC)
Two decades ago the US had less care, less money, and less drugs thrown at the problem and the US ranked 28th in infant mortality. Now, the US has more care, more money, and more drugs thrown at the problem and the ranking is 41st among nations.....a drop of 13 in two decades. More facts regarding MORE CARE, MORE DRUGS, MORE MONEY while deaths increase and rankings decrease. 20 years ago it wasn't a number to be proud of but it was a lot better when women had LESS CARE, LESS MONEY for the problem, and LESS DRUGS to consume. Why do you dodge and weave these variables thrown out as a solution by "experts" across this nation? These are the guys you trust as your savior after all. What part about more care, more money, and more drugs equating to more death do you not understand? I don't have the wrong variables and you have provided NONE. Here's some more facts for you to process. The three main culprits are the same in all nations, no matter the ranking: Preterm delivery, asphyxia (lack of oxygen), and infections. Hospitals in high ranking nations actually track and combat infection, not so much here in the USA where hospitals resist regulation as infection rates explode and babies are the most vulnerable. I've done nothing but cough up facts for you to process while you continue to toss a red herring, dodge and weave. Do you realize that our hospitals in this nation are actually contributing to deaths by infections? Or are you one of those "best health care in the world" cheer leaders who can't process actuary data? " If you cannot govern yourself, you will be governed by assholes. " Randge, Poet de Forum, 1/11/11 "Life's tough, and even tougher if you're stupid." --John Wayne
The government is seeping in every nook and cranny.....with a gaggle of idiots to cheer nanny state on. It's disgraceful.
" If you cannot govern yourself, you will be governed by assholes. " Randge, Poet de Forum, 1/11/11 "Life's tough, and even tougher if you're stupid." --John Wayne
Infection and medical error variables~ While you continue to deny that the care itself has any blame, I offer you more statistics on the "best" medical care in the WORLD and the highest infant mortality rate in the industrialized world: You are 33,000 times more likely to die from hospital error than a plane crash. Your chance of death by hospital error is 1 in 300 1 in 5 patients suffer harm due to medical errors. Deaths per year due to medical error and infections: 200,000 What do mistakes in hospitals cost each year: $17 Billion (not counting funeral costs) How many infections are contracted in hospitals each year: 1.7 MILLION and this is the government number using select data from 2002 which is disputed as MUCH higher. How man die from infections: 100,000 Some date for the much higher number: By June, 2007, 2.4 percent of all patients had MRSA infections, according to the largest study of its kind, which was published in the American Journal of Infection Control. That would mean 880,000 victims a year for just ONE type of infection. Hospital contracted infections kill more people than AIDS, breast cancer, and auto accidents. America has thrown more money, more drugs, and more access to care out on the table while the deaths increase. " If you cannot govern yourself, you will be governed by assholes. " Randge, Poet de Forum, 1/11/11 "Life's tough, and even tougher if you're stupid." --John Wayne
That's not what I'm doing. I'm focused on the 11,000 dead babies that you brought up. I think we all know things are messed up when it comes to health care here. I haven't verified your stats, but I'm not arguing against them either. Big pharma is really no different than big government. What you have done is you stated that 11,000 babies are dead. Then you go on about big pharma. I'm focused on your 11,000 dead babies. You have yet to provide a link between those dead babies and the prenatal care given to those babies. I'm questioning whether or not they received that care. Now, I know health care is a racket. I knew that 3 decades ago when I read thru an itemized hospital bill. The fuckers charged the insurance company $20 for a fucking tylenol 3. I still remember that. Who knows how much they're charging now. I also know that because of advances people are living now when they would have died in the past. What's needed is balance. Everything is out of balance, not just health care, ------------------------------------------ Yes, it is. It'd be a different story if they kept their religious crap to themselves. But they don't. It affects everyone, believer or not, because they believe in spreading the misery. I'd love to see all 3 abrahamic faiths be destroyed. But that doesn't mean I'd love to see those that adhere to those beliefs be destroyed. That's because I used to be one. If I started out as an atheist, I'd probably be even more vicious. ------------------------------------------ Two decades ago we didn't have 30+ million dirt poor illegal aliens living in the country who do not go to doctors for prenatal visits. I'm not saying you are not correct in your observation but I have to wonder whether the illegal alien population has skewed the numbers for the worse - not only in this area but in all areas. Calling Ron Paul an isolationist is like calling your neighbor a hermit because he doesn't come over and break your window - unknown I WITHDRAW MY CONSENT! I find this a difficult subject. Children have a right to LIFE, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness just like everyone else so common sense says that the government should protect these rights by forcing the parents to treat illnesses that can be treated. The problem lies with the adage, "give an inch, take a mile." That is the government. If you allow the authoritarian nannies in government to overrule the decisions of the parents in this area, they use that as precedence to overrule the parents in other areas. We see that today and it is getting worse all the time. If the price of keeping the government out of raising my children at the point of a gun is allowing other parents to put their children's life at risk, then those children can take their chances. Until such a time that we can figure out how to stop the nanny state from using issues like this as a basis to try and control all aspects of parenthood, I am on the side of the parents, no matter how horrendous I may view their decisions. I do not say that with any happiness though and it makes me angry that the criminal syndicate known as the Republican-Democratic parties puts me in this position. Calling Ron Paul an isolationist is like calling your neighbor a hermit because he doesn't come over and break your window - unknown I WITHDRAW MY CONSENT! You and me both. I don't think they have brought as much destruction and loss of life as the government worshipers have but they are a close second. Calling Ron Paul an isolationist is like calling your neighbor a hermit because he doesn't come over and break your window - unknown I WITHDRAW MY CONSENT! Conservatives whimper and whine about "The Nanny State" - but should the state be able to REQUIRE parents who believe in faith healthy, who preumably have been helped by faith healing themselves, to violate their children's religious upbringing and resort to the latest medical technology? It's easy for outsiders to answer Yes when children are involved. But the same Conservatives complained when The Nanny State wanted to require all little girls to get that HPV vaccination (and it appears that there was a risk in that procedure). They complained when schools offered older kids condoms. Some got uptight about fluride in the water, although its benefit to children seems unassailable. Some of the court cases about medical decisions involving children in recent years have including compelling parents to submit the children, admittedly stricken with life-threatening ailments, to risky and traumatizing hospital treatments including surgery, radiation, and strong medications. Not all these stories have happy endings. I think in some cases the treatments that were compelled in one year were later found to be ineffective or otherwise dropped by the medical profession in a subsequent year.
No it wouldn't be a different story. You expect of others what you do not do not expect of yourself. You don't keep you religious crap to yourself. Instead, you fling your ass hurt over your experiences far and wide and create ridiculous reasoning for your "vicious" behavior. You hypocritically spread your misery while whining about other doing the same; sniveling about the "affect" on everyone while you affect others negatively. It's painfully comical to see you act as you claim to disdain in others with your "if's" to justify your personal spread of misery. A different story arises when the author creates one and takes responsibility for the story created. " If you cannot govern yourself, you will be governed by assholes. " Randge, Poet de Forum, 1/11/11 "Life's tough, and even tougher if you're stupid." --John Wayne
What benefit is "unassailable"? Prove it. " If you cannot govern yourself, you will be governed by assholes. " Randge, Poet de Forum, 1/11/11 "Life's tough, and even tougher if you're stupid." --John Wayne
Agreed. "If the price of keeping the government out of raising my children at the point of a gun is allowing other parents to put their children's life at risk, then those children can take their chances. " Disagreed. No one should have to take their chances, because kids are not given a chance when parents think their 'god' is a doctor. It's is this lack of balance that is the problem here. I've heard the saying "hard cases make bad law". It's true. Government unrestrained will use those hard cases to get their way. But that doesn't mean that there is no need for government, just less centralized government. ------------------------------------------ I express my opinions, same as everyone else. You may not like my opinions, but I don't care. " sniveling about the "affect" on everyone while you affect others negatively. " Nonsense. If I affect others negatively, it's because they arent strong in their faith. If they were faithful, nothing I would say could bother them. If they are bothered ny anything I say, it's because I hit close to home. Here's a little secret. It was this anger I felt at others questioning my True Christian faith that made me question it. Where did that anger come from? Why was I mad, just because someone disagreed with me? That started the journey that ended with me telling the kike god, "jesus" and the "holy spirit" to go fuck themselves. ------------------------------------------ ping to 147
------------------------------------------ I agree, but that is the way of government. Those who join it and move up its ranks are the authoritarian nannies that want to mind everyone's business and use the force of government to do their bidding. Those who support the nanny staters also want to mind everyone's business while at the same time demanding that no one minds their business. Due to this reality there will always be an imbalance and because of that imbalance the only protection we have is not giving them the inch they need. But I understand where you are coming from and as I said, I am not happy about my conclusion. Calling Ron Paul an isolationist is like calling your neighbor a hermit because he doesn't come over and break your window - unknown I WITHDRAW MY CONSENT! You Go Girl! ;-)
You've GOT to be shitting me?!? Yeah, I want to drink more fluoride.....that stuff is industrial poison, the claim that it reduces cavities is ridiculous and without merit. It's a profit making business, and whether there's ANY virtue in it at all matters nothing to those who rake in the cold hard cash.
#125. To: HOUNDDAWG (#124)
I've never had one and after the shot during the winter of 1970-71 almost killed my sweet mother I vowed never to let them stick me with their supposed-to-be-attenuated-but-actually-live-viruses.
Americans who have no experience with, or knowledge of, tyranny believe that only terrorists will experience the unchecked power of the state. They will believe this until it happens to them, or their children, or their friends.
#126. To: PSUSA2 (#95)
what actually is responsible for the deaths and rely only on the increase in spending and the increase in prescriptions to make your case.
#127. To: James Deffenbach (#125)
#128. To: HOUNDDAWG (#127)
Americans who have no experience with, or knowledge of, tyranny believe that only terrorists will experience the unchecked power of the state. They will believe this until it happens to them, or their children, or their friends.
#129. To: James Deffenbach (#128)
#130. To: abraxas (#126)
more doctors prescribing more drugs for more money equals death
#131. To: PSUSA2 (#13)
#132. To: abraxas (#126)
My case is that an increase in care, money and drugs is RESULTING in more deaths. Do you not understand that?
#133. To: Prefrontal Vortex (#131)
I just wish more Mexicans believed in faith healing.
#134. To: abraxas (#44)
#135. To: PSUSA2 (#41)
#136. To: PSUSA2 (#132)
If you have the wrong variables, you won't get a right solution.
#137. To: sizzlerguy (#130)
#138. To: PSUSA2 (#132)
If you have the wrong variables, you won't get a right solution.
#139. To: abraxas (#136)
(Edited)
Why do you dodge and weave these variables thrown out as a solution by "experts" across this nation?
#140. To: noone222 (#135)
Your responses to people's Christian beliefs are pretty vicious.
#141. To: abraxas (#136)
Two decades ago the US had less care, less money, and less drugs thrown at the problem and the US ranked 28th in infant mortality. Now, the US has more care, more money, and more drugs thrown at the problem and the ranking is 41st among nations.....a drop of 13 in two decades.
Any perceived compliance with unconstitutional “laws” or orders put forth by government employees is NOT recognition of their authority; it is simply the result of carefully calculated submission to an entity exhibiting superior firepower.
#142. To: PSUSA2 (#0)
Any perceived compliance with unconstitutional “laws” or orders put forth by government employees is NOT recognition of their authority; it is simply the result of carefully calculated submission to an entity exhibiting superior firepower.
#143. To: PSUSA2 (#140)
I'd love to see all 3 abrahamic faiths be destroyed.
Any perceived compliance with unconstitutional “laws” or orders put forth by government employees is NOT recognition of their authority; it is simply the result of carefully calculated submission to an entity exhibiting superior firepower.
#144. To: PSUSA2 (#0)
#145. To: PSUSA2 (#140)
It'd be a different story if they kept their religious crap to themselves. But they don't. It affects everyone, believer or not, because they believe in spreading the misery.
#146. To: Shoonra (#144)
Some got uptight about fluride in the water, although its benefit to children seems unassailable.
#147. To: F.A. Hayek Fan (#142)
The problem lies with the adage, "give an inch, take a mile." That is the government.
#148. To: abraxas (#145)
You expect of others what you do not do not expect of yourself. You don't keep you religious crap to yourself.
#149. To: Shoonra (#144)
#150. To: PSUSA2 (#147)
It's is this lack of balance that is the problem here.
Any perceived compliance with unconstitutional “laws” or orders put forth by government employees is NOT recognition of their authority; it is simply the result of carefully calculated submission to an entity exhibiting superior firepower.
#151. To: abraxas (#145)
#152. To: Shoonra (#144)
Some got uptight about fluride in the water, although its benefit to children seems unassailable.
-Alex Kurtagic
#153. To: PSUSA2 (#148)
Why was I mad, just because someone disagreed with me? By your own admission you are "viscous" and frankly, nobody here at 4um has treated you in kind over religious differences. What "affect" are you intending if not negative? You bait it, speak viciously, and then snivel and whine about responses you get with lame hypotheticals to justify your behavior. If this, if that....all the while you fail to see that the common denomination isn't this if or that if but YOU. You're mad on a regular basis when people disagree with you, nothing has changed since you decided to no longer be a Christian. If you want to see a change, start with yourself. Your journey is circular, but you're too busy making justifications for your admitted "viscous" behavior to see it. When are you going to own your own admitted "viscous" behavior? Your opinions don't merit a like or dislike, no such emotion has been expressed. What I dislike is your disrespect for others who do not merit such treatment with your admitted "viscous" commentary. You do it to piss people off and then you whine and create silly hypotheticals when you get the result you were seeking. When will the anger you continue to wallow in bring you to question your "true" satanic faith as it did your "true" Christian faith? When will you own your anger and stop blaming your faith of the week? I express my opinions, same as everyone else. You may not like my opinions, but I don't care.
" If you cannot govern yourself, you will be governed by assholes. " Randge, Poet de Forum, 1/11/11
"Life's tough, and even tougher if you're stupid." --John Wayne
#154. To: PSUSA2, abraxas (#153) (Edited)
PSUSA, the question is on the table. Please answer the lady, I'm curious what your response is on this one. When will the anger you continue to wallow in bring you to question your "true" satanic faith as it did your "true" Christian faith?
-Alex Kurtagic
#155. To: abraxas (#153)
I never said anyone did treat me bad over religious differences (with the exception of the "believe or burn" crowd but they don't bother me because they don't count) But I express my opinions, same as everyone else. Those that don't like me or my opinions know that there is a fix for that, and presto changeo! My posts disappear. "You're mad on a regular basis when people disagree with you," Nonsense. I don't get mad at words on a page. I can disagree with someone on one thread and agree with them on another. It's never personal. "What I dislike is your disrespect for others who do not merit such treatment with your admitted "viscous" commentary. " Why is this all about me all the sudden? Have you given up with the state of health care and doctors, and the 11,000 dead babies you brought up? Is it because you think I'm being vicious towards you? "You do it to piss people off and then you whine and create silly hypotheticals when you get the result you were seeking." Perhaps you can show some examples of this? I'd love to see them. If people are pissed off by my opinions, by litte ol' me, that's their problem, not mine. I can discuss it with them, if they stick to the point, which you aren't doing here. By your own admission you are "viscous" and frankly, nobody here at 4um has treated you in kind over religious differences.
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#156. To: X-15 (#154)
PSUSA, the question is on the table. Please answer the lady, I'm curious what your response is on this one. What do you know about Satanic "faith"? (I used quotes for a reason) Do you go off of what the church teaches? (they're a little biased) How about Hollywood? Tell me in a nutshell what you know about Satanism. Then we can perhaps discuss it. Not that I speak for Satanism, but just for myself. When will the anger you continue to wallow in bring you to question your "true" satanic faith as it did your "true" Christian faith?
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#157. To: PSUSA2, abraxas (#156)
It's bad. There, in two words I summed it all up. Tell me in a nutshell what you know about Satanism.
-Alex Kurtagic
#158. To: PSUSA2 (#155)
Perhaps you can show some examples of this? I'd love to see them. Happy to share an example~ Example One: YOUR TITLE FOR THIS THREAD! The sole purpose of the title change is to piss people off. The original title for the article was fine but you felt the need to insert your own for negative "affect" with complete and total disregard and disrespect for others on 4um who do not share your newly minted beliefs. Yet you feign innocence while proving yourself to be as transparent as Saran Wrap. People aren't pissed off. However, people are not going to allow you to snivel and whine about the behaviors of others that you exhibit daily. People are not going to allow you to feign innocence while you spew admitted "viscous" commentary for no other purpose than negative "affect" on others which you hypocritically claim to disdain when you are on the receiving end of it. Again, when will you own your own behavior and anger and stop blaming your chosen "faith" of the week? Do you have another useless "if" for an answer? As for the infant mortality.......I've posted fact after fact after fact while you have offered nothing but unsubstantiated opinions. If you wish to discuss specific posted facts, do some research and contribute more than your unsubstantiated opinion. "You do it to piss people off and then you whine and create silly hypotheticals when you get the result you were seeking."
" If you cannot govern yourself, you will be governed by assholes. " Randge, Poet de Forum, 1/11/11
"Life's tough, and even tougher if you're stupid." --John Wayne
#159. To: PSUSA2 (#1)
Example TWO: Stated for no other pupose than to piss people on this 4um off and garner negative "affect".......and I have to ask: who benefits? Where is your "jesus" now. Idiots.
" If you cannot govern yourself, you will be governed by assholes. " Randge, Poet de Forum, 1/11/11
"Life's tough, and even tougher if you're stupid." --John Wayne
#160. To: abraxas (#158)
Couples faith in "jesus" gets them nothing but 2 dead kids and a murder charge(my title) 1) Did they have faith in "jesus"? Yes. 2) Did 2 kids die because of this misplaced faith? Yes. 3) Are murder charges pending? Yes. Now you may not like my title, but it is accurate. If people got pissed off when reading the title, then that's their problem. What they should be pissed off about is the 2 dead kids that their "jesus" didn't think enough of to heal. I wonder why "jesus" ignored their pleas. Probably not enough faith. OOPS! I don't want to make people angry here... so I'll stop. lol "people are not going to allow you to snivel and whine about the behaviors of others that you exhibit daily. People are not going to allow you to feign innocence while you spew admitted "viscous" commentary for no other purpose than negative "affect" on others which you hypocritically claim to disdain when you are on the receiving end of it. " Speak for yourself. If you think I'm guilty of those things, hers's the place to prove it. I claim no "disdain" when people disagree with me. None. Nada. Zilch. "As for the infant mortality.......I've posted fact after fact after fact while you have offered nothing but unsubstantiated opinions." I have offered one main question: Show where your 11,000 dead babies received prenatal care. And kindly answer that without using the word "epidemic" that you used above. Example One: YOUR TITLE FOR THIS THREAD! The sole purpose of the title change is to piss people off.
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#161. To: PSUSA2 (#160)
So are you going to suggest that scribbling pentagrams in the dirt and worshipping bloody steer skulls would have saved that baby? Oh, wait, Satanists have been known to SACRIFICE babies at the altar of their misguided genuflecting.
-Alex Kurtagic
#162. To: abraxas (#159)
Example TWO: Stated for no other pupose than to piss people on this 4um off and garner negative "affect".......and I have to ask: who benefits? Simple question, really. Where's their jesus now? If that makes people angry, then they must know the answer to that question, right? So, where is their jesus now? 2 kids died due to "his" incompetence, or maybe he was busy doing something else, or maybe it was all "gods' will" that these kids die. But if that was the case, the least "jesus" could do is put in an appearance and explain a few things. Maybe that was too much trouble? OOPS! I don't want to piss people off. So I'll stop now. lol Where is your "jesus" now. Idiots.
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#163. To: X-15 (#157)
It's bad. There, in two words I summed it all up. Then there's really nor much to discuss, right? Tell me in a nutshell what you know about Satanism.
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#164. To: PSUSA2 (#162)
You are skirting the issue again. What purpose does your statement have other than to be "viscous" and/or piss people on this 4um off and/or create a negative "affect" in stating it? Who benefits from your question? Do you benefit from total disregard and respect for others on this 4um who do not share your newly minted beliefs? Do you benefit from negatively affecting others while you snivel others do this to you? Do you benefit from intentionally trying to piss others off? Same with your title change......who benefits? What purpose is served? You asked for examples and I have provided them......the least you could do is answer the questions directed toward you instead of ducking, weaving, and tossing red herrings. You aren't fooling anybody. Are you a victim of your seething anger at Christianity that didn't meet your lofty exceptions? Is religion responsible for your "viscous" behavior or are you accountable for your own damn self? If that makes people angry, then they must know the answer to that question, right?
" If you cannot govern yourself, you will be governed by assholes. " Randge, Poet de Forum, 1/11/11
"Life's tough, and even tougher if you're stupid." --John Wayne
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