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Title: Keiser: The Collapse of the Current Bankster Regime is Upon Us
Source: [None]
URL Source: http://www.infowars.com/keiser-the- ... nt-bankster-regime-is-upon-us/
Published: Jun 17, 2013
Author: Max Keiser
Post Date: 2013-06-17 13:22:26 by Horse
Keywords: None
Views: 6268
Comments: 64

We’re in a post-capitalist, post-socialism world. I have just come back from the G8 protests in Belfast and it occurred to me – at this point; we’re post both capitalism and socialism – and this point needs to be made clear, but we also see some vestiges of both systems in a new, emerging economy that has yet to be named.

I agree with the G8 protesters in Belfast that capitalism – as it’s been iterated in the West in the post WWII era has run its course. The main cause for its demise, as I see it, is that during the 1980’s; thanks to deregulation, futures and options speculation and leverage migrated over to the burgeoning field of ‘financial futures’ and the price discovery mechanism associated with supply and demand and the ‘invisible hand’ – over the ensuing few decades – completely broke down. Money itself lost any anchor to value as futures traders speculated with virtually no risk on contracts worth many billions that had been willed into existence by financial engineers not by dint of any underlying economic activity.

And there’s no going back now. You see, financial futures are trading on prices that are based – not on any underlying economic reality – but rather a series of assumptions based on academically-concatenated theories and theorems which in turn generate a new set of prices. The result is that capital flows into destabilizing ‘malinvestments’ all hidden by the outsized returns of intermediaries like hedge funds who make billions mining what has become essentially a broken system of monetizing fraud.

Since the rising unemployment and social unrest these financially engineered malinvestments produce is ignored, because hedge funds have been making lots of money, nobody is willing to step forward and suggest that making money at the expense of a sound market might be a bad thing. The fake prices are never questioned and the fraudulently garnered riches are always celebrated.

Prices for all commodities and securities have permanently lost their connection to a functioning economy. Once a pickle, never a cucumber. Financialized capitalism is now in its death throes.

What about socialism?

As that term is generally understood – it has also burnt out. Central planning, hierarchical governments, and doctrines guaranteeing ‘fairness’ simply don’t work; primarily because all centrally planned systems of markets and governments fail the ‘naturalness’ test. Nothing in nature works for long that is so rigid and unadaptable as man made experiments in central planning except for a few parasites and cancer.

Today we have hybrid models that contain bits from the previous schools that are racing ahead to fill the vacuum left by collapse of both capitalism and socialism.

Crowdfunding is an emergent idea. It owes a debt of gratitude to socialism. It’s part of ‘social networking,’ a phenomenon of leveraging the ‘the whole is greater than the sum of the parts’ idea. Keep in mind that Google’s multi-billion dollar valuation is driven by billions of individuals donating their time and creativity to the collective. So too for ‘open-source’ software and p2p file swapping. But there is also a necessary component of competition associated with free market capitalism in crowd funding. A platform like Kickstarter allows for ideas to compete in a free market – where the funds flow where the market goes; not where a central planner wants funds to go.

Bitcoin is also a post capitalism/socialism hybrid. It’s growth is driven by a hard coded, centrally imagined algorithm while it’s adoption is possible via the free market activities of users who are rejecting centrally planned, bogus fiat currencies like Pounds, Dollars, and Yen and using Bitcoin instead.

The collapse of the current bankster regime is upon us. This means a whole new set of winners and losers. The point is that it’s not all grim. The future is being imagined and implemented as we speak.

Special for Infowars from Max Keiser, host of Russia Today’s Keiser Report, a no holds barred look at the shocking scandals behind the global financial headlines. See his latest report discussing the price holograms in a simulated economy.


Poster Comment:

Max has a limited perspective.

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#24. To: BTP Holdings (#23) (Edited)

Plus, we have not had a real Senate since they passed the 17th Amendment, which allowed Senators to be elected by popular vote, rather than be appointed by the several State's Legislatures. ;)

Good point. It was 1913 when that Commie demolishment and hijacking of our government process was orchestrated, along with the 16th/Income Tax deception, the IRS and the Federal Reserve to destroy our money and our economy. The ADL/Anti-Defamation League was also started that year. Then they sent our men into WWI and started pushing their next two agitative stratagems: Prohibition and "Women's Suffrage" to topple America more leftward politically, as is the "Socialist" direction many women tend to vote. The Marx/Lincoln era of horrendous "Civil War" here is when the Communist Revolution began in America, imo -- with Biblical/ritualistic sounding place names for the initial killing fields. They try to insist these days that the 2nd Amendment is for the National Guards but there was no "National Guard" for over 100 years from the time the Constitution was enacted. They arranged that to wrongfully ship our Militias out of the country for foreign Wars. 1913, though, was when the Communist takeover here moved frenetically to get their coup-forces provisioned for "conflict management" of our nation and others into WWI and the Russian Revolution, etc. There is scarcely any facet of America that hasn't been devastated through the century and a half of their maelstrom since Lincoln's War. They are not the real government of our Constitutional Republic. The Constitution is our government and they are insurrectionists.

This link at dailypaul.com has a discussion of the 17th Amendment, which needs to be abolished and all of their other wreckages too.

Edited for spelling + last sentence.

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"They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC

GreyLmist  posted on  2013-07-16   11:47:06 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#25. To: noone222 (#12)
(Edited)

...manufacturing and production of marketable goods that the world wishes to purchase from us is the critical element to the establishment of a solid currency. When we build or create the things the world can't do without then they have to find a way to trade with us. By that, I mean they have to convert their currency to ours in order to make a purchase and at that point WE DETERMINE the value of their currency.

Since we have been sliding backwards with respect to manufacturing and production in general our currency has declined in value proportionately.

I thought of what you said there as I was watching a video yesterday about our nation's money problems and others -- much of our impoverishment due to the inflationary "Quantitative Easing" fiascos of bailouts and banker bonuses and such. I set that link to 18:35 for a segment of the video (until 20:23) where G. Edward Griffin talks about America exporting its inflation to import foreign products here. That, of course, is further damaging to our manufacturing and production which was already drastically reduced long ago. He didn't exactly say that Federal Reserve notes were being mass produced like trinkets for exporters but that's the impression I got. Then he described how the foreign countries flood our markets with that near worthless FRN junk by importing it back here to get rid of it. I was trying to think of what American markets they would even be interested much in purchasing from, since our manufacturing and production is so scarce: Weaponry, some farm and food products, some vehicles, so-called "entertainment industry" items that are mostly trash. And then it occurred to me that buying exports from us was probably not their objective so much as is buying up our properties, businesses and infrastructures. Americans are being genocidally poverty-stricken and dispossesed of our country. Their malevolent money schemes are designed to ensure that most of us cannot save up enough monetarily to stop their asset takeovers and many can't even sustain their own households anymore. We need a money system of our own and fast.

Edited for punctuation.

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"They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC

GreyLmist  posted on  2013-07-16   17:11:48 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#26. To: GreyLmist (#24)

They try to insist these days that the 2nd Amendment is for the National Guards but there was no "National Guard" for over 100 years from the time the Constitution was enacted.

The Supreme Court ruled in "Heller" that the 2nd Amendment is an individual right.

The 2nd Amendment applies in no way the the "National Guard" which is, in fact, a branch of the organized military. ;)

"When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall, one by one." Edmund Burke

BTP Holdings  posted on  2013-07-16   17:47:13 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#27. To: noone222, GreyLmist (#5)

there is no evidence that the gargantuan machination we call the UNITED STATES (a commercial entity) has any intention of forfeiting its commercial stranglehold on its "customers" that have VOLUNTARILY entered the commercial arena via convenience agreements based upon debt based commercial paper.

This is true. We ALL participate in Commerce by the use of their Federal Reserve Notes to purchase "items" at the "grocery store" or the "mall" or the "gas station". ;)

"When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall, one by one." Edmund Burke

BTP Holdings  posted on  2013-07-16   17:56:52 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#28. To: All (#25)

Americans are being genocidally poverty-stricken and dispossesed of our country. Their malevolent money schemes are designed to ensure that most of us cannot save up enough monetarily to stop their asset takeovers and many can't even sustain their own households anymore. We need a money system of our own and fast.

Fixing the Money System - 2.5 minutes

Uploaded on Nov 10, 2008 by AdaptAdoptAndImprove

The US dollar is backed by nothing, and its value is rapidly spiralling out of control, taking the markets with it.

Many people are talking about the problem with fiat (unbacked) currency, but few people discuss solutions.

Here is a simple workable solution. (This is an excerpt from the movie Fiat Empire. The speaker is Edwin Vieira Jr., author of a 1700 page book on currency and the constitution.)

I'm not as certain as Dr. Vieira was at the time of his closing statement in that 2008 video on the availability of gold and silver as competing currencies for us to diminish the fiat paper farce. I think another currency system should also be implemented here that is based on our time and efforts invested to improve economic and societal conditions. That can be arranged in addition to whatever we are able to do to put gold and silver back into action as much as possible instead of Federal Reserve junk. This link for a 4-minute 2010 video about the "Don't Tread on Me" film is set to start at 2:37 for an example of how we could maybe put Federal taxes into an escrow account when D.C. is acting Unconstitutionally, which could serve as well to counter the preferential status of Federal Reserve notes in governmental transactions. I think it's a good idea even though it hasn't been enacted yet at the State level, afaik. If they won't do it, we the citizenry could consider diverting those payments to an escrow account established by us:

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"They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC

GreyLmist  posted on  2013-07-17   0:30:14 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#29. To: BTP Holdings (#26)

The Supreme Court ruled in "Heller" that the 2nd Amendment is an individual right.

The 2nd Amendment applies in no way the the "National Guard" which is, in fact, a branch of the organized military. ;)

Right. :) They are like a Joint Task Force of the Federal Military when needed in that capacity but they are not really supposed to be used outside of our nation for foreign wars. They are also part of their State Militias as well but are comprised of a number of volunteers from those ranks who agree to serve like First Responders from their State Militias if called to Federal duty. The rest of the State Militias are to continue protecting their States unless more are requested for reinforcement and support due to some condition of emergency.

-------

"They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC

GreyLmist  posted on  2013-07-17   1:21:43 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#30. To: BTP Holdings (#27)

We ALL participate in Commerce by the use of their Federal Reserve Notes to purchase "items" at the "grocery store" or the "mall" or the "gas station". ;)

I could trade some FRNs at a bank for rolls of gold coins but whether or not any businesses will accept those coins instead of FRNs and "standard issue" coinage of lesser precious metal content is not something that is simply a participation choice that's optional for me. If they choose to demand the usual tokens of exchange because they're worried about getting robbed by thugs or intimidated by financiers if they take in gold coins, I might run out of gas or not be able to buy food. A few of us trying to use those coins if we can won't make much difference in the magnitude of our national dilemma financially. We need an alternative currency system on a major scale ASAP -- preferably protected by our State Militias.

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"They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC

GreyLmist  posted on  2013-07-17   2:15:34 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#31. To: All (#25) (Edited)

was watching a video yesterday about our nation's money problems and others -- much of our impoverishment due to the inflationary "Quantitative Easing" fiascos of bailouts and banker bonuses and such. I set that link to 18:35 for a segment of the video (until 20:23) where G. Edward Griffin talks about America exporting its inflation to import foreign products here. That, of course, is further damaging to our manufacturing and production which was already drastically reduced long ago. He didn't exactly say that Federal Reserve notes were being mass produced like trinkets for exporters but that's the impression I got. Then he described how the foreign countries flood our markets with that near worthless FRN junk by importing it back here to get rid of it. I was trying to think of what American markets they would even be interested much in purchasing from, since our manufacturing and production is so scarce: Weaponry, some farm and food products, some vehicles, so-called "entertainment industry" items that are mostly trash. And then it occurred to me that buying exports from us was probably not their objective so much as is buying up our properties, businesses and infrastructures.

HAARP Has Not Shutdown, Only Bought By The Highest Bidder Group — TheWeatherSpace.com | July 16

The Alaskan HAARP Facility Website has been down for quite sometime, having many ask the question on what is going on with it. An announcement was made that the resources to fund the project have been spent and the project has shutdown. But that isn’t the case.

As it stated in their official release, the facility is being bought by the highest bidder. HaarpStatus updates at TheWeatherSpace.com are continuing so either the facility is still on, run by another group of scientists, or other facilities with the same technology are continuing to affect the atmosphere. There are many facilities like HAARP across the world, with smaller ones said to be in the United States as well.

If the report is accurate, who could even afford to buy that? Bankers... Wall Street moguls... Russia... China... Saudi Arabia... Israel? Not me and doubtful there was even any option for Americans of American citizenship only to pool their money together to buy it so that it would stay an American facility. As with other infrastructural things here being privatized for foreigners, our tax money was probably used to build it.

Edited for spelling.

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"They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC

GreyLmist  posted on  2013-07-17   18:28:51 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#32. To: GreyLmist (#30)

A few of us trying to use those coins if we can won't make much difference in the magnitude of our national dilemma financially. We need an alternative currency system on a major scale ASAP -- preferably protected by our State Militias.

They ran the Liberty Dollar out of business long ago. That was the only major alternative currency aroung that was backed by silver and gold.

There is currently "Bitcoin", which I am not terribly familar with. But it seems to be an electronic currency that you can use online or in other ways. As far as I know, it has no backing by precious metals. ;)

"When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall, one by one." Edmund Burke

BTP Holdings  posted on  2013-07-18   16:40:15 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#33. To: GreyLmist (#31)

who could even afford to buy that?

The entire global monetary system is based on debt. That is what a Federal Reserve Note is. And, all other currencies are based on debt, as well. ;)

"When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall, one by one." Edmund Burke

BTP Holdings  posted on  2013-07-18   17:19:58 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#34. To: noone222 (#11)

What has happened is that we the people have unwittingly entered the bank's private area of authority by agreement through usage of their INTERNAL currency and credit system. At the same time, Washington D.C. has been incorporated under the title United States (FEDERAL GOVT not national govt) and is obligated to honor the FEDERAL RESERVE.

The entire monetary system is a fraud, including the Federal Reserve itself.

When we accept those FRNs for the work we perform, we are engaged in commerce. The same holds true when you use those Notes to purchase "items" at the grocery store, mall, or gas station.

When you use a credit card or debit card, the same holds true. ;)

"When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall, one by one." Edmund Burke

BTP Holdings  posted on  2013-07-18   17:24:41 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#35. To: GreyLmist (#28)

That is the best clip I've seen from Dr. Vieira, most of them lately, eeh not so much. It is surely an understatement that with competition over time FRN would lose to anything, including tulips. They are not just debt instruments, they are instruments of theft codified as "Legal Tender" by fiat.

I see you as very sharp, rational, a person who knows this and doesn't believe they can be easily tricked or fooled with your skills at research. Not able to fall for every conspiracy theory that comes along.

Contrary to what the lamestream media tells us I believe the "Greatest Generation" may have been born in the 1700's. They fought for state government and rights presided over by the individual, provided for a common currency that could not be permanently corrupted, a limited and balanced national government, and this country was built based on common law courts.

The leap from their intent to what we suffer today is not something they would recognize our have expected us to allow, although the evidence is there that they did expect attempts to be made.

It is hard for a smart, rational, careful person to grasp what has been done to us without jumping into the rabbit hole and looking at all these attacks on our freedom and the Constitution as a malevolent conspiracy.

States rights and common law courts disappeared in the 1860's

The third Rothschild central bank in this country was installed in secret in 1913, along with the IRS.

As a result gold was taken from us as legal tender in 1933, silver in 1964. Since 1972 the fed has went into overdrive sucking the life out of this country.

We have many problems to deal with, that only an optimist would think will ever be resolved.

Today's mantra is "Move on", "Moving forward" it is repugnant to accept what has been done to us and posterity without placing or accepting responsibility for the grievous acts that got us HERE.

If you do jump in, all research will take you to kooks and nuts, by definition.

“Anti-semitism is a disease–you catch it from Jews”–Edgar J. Steele

“The jew cries out in pain, as he strikes you.”–Polish proverb

“I would like to express my heartfelt apologies for the unfortunate and tasteless quotes I published in my tag lines. I am very sorry and ashamed. I never wanted to offend anyone, or to encroach human rights."- Hmmmmm

Hmmmmm  posted on  2013-07-18   22:31:00 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#36. To: BTP Holdings (#32) (Edited)

I recently read a portion of a FEDERAL court ruling that stated those holding Liberty Dollar certificates had not broken the law and their metals were to be returned. (IIRC).

The information came from Von Nothaus himself ... he has a blog of some sort and someone e-mailed me the info.

Strange times are these in which we live when old and young are taught in falsehood’s school. And the one man who dares to tell the truth is called at once a lunatic and fool.

– Plato (429-347 BC)

noone222  posted on  2013-07-19   8:15:05 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#37. To: BTP Holdings (#32)

www.libertydollarnews.org...dinger_dismisal_order.pdf

2. Impressive Court Order in North Carolina

On February 25, 2013, District Judge Martin Reidinger, who is in the same federal district where BVNH was convicted, issued a 96 page Order regarding the government's attempt to forfeit the seized property of 26 Petitioners. Not only did the DOJ lose this case and did not appeal it, but Judge Reidinger denounced the government for its actions stating: 1) "In its arguments, the Government has completely lost sight of the purpose of this proceeding and the purpose of the forfeiture statute. 2) "The Government seeks to deprive them [the Petitioners] of their hard-earned retirement funds and assets based on absurd contortions of the forfeiture statute." 3) "This is the sort of behavior that diminishes the public trust in government, as well as the justice system in general."

This is a must read if your Liberty Dollar property was wrongfully seized. There is no doubt that everyone who is holding paper or digital warehouse receipts will eventually recover their long sought property.

Strange times are these in which we live when old and young are taught in falsehood’s school. And the one man who dares to tell the truth is called at once a lunatic and fool.

– Plato (429-347 BC)

noone222  posted on  2013-07-19   13:21:09 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#38. To: BTP Holdings, noone222, Hmmmmm, 4 (#32) (Edited)

Me: We need an alternative currency system on a major scale ASAP -- preferably protected by our State Militias.

BTP Holdings: There is currently "Bitcoin", which I am not terribly familar with. But it seems to be an electronic currency that you can use online or in other ways. As far as I know, it has no backing by precious metals. ;)

I've posted this 3 minute video a couple of times recently [here and here] but this time I'm going to title it: Dr. Edwin Vieira's Bitcoin-like Treasury option - 08.01.09 and set the link to start at 1:33. At that point, he talks about how we could transact online with gold and silver; in precise measurements to make change as needed. Probably not many of us would have gold and silver in the early stages to transact with that way but I think that situation would improve soon as it started making its way through our participatory economy.

I would suggest for our usage as sound money that the valuation of our precious metal inventories be set by a stable standard of weights and measures, not market fluctuations. Congress could do that for us if they weren't scoundrels but likely won't. Am not sure but the States might not be able to involve themselves in the weights and measures process of helping to make Dr. Vieira's Bitcoin-like idea workable, since they are prohibited by the Constitution from coining money and emitting bills of credit too. We the People could set the weight and measure values ourselves by agreement.

Am of the opinion that market based gold and silver should be considered like foreign currency that requires an exchange fee and somewhat higher amounts to be imported for conversion to our system, which could provide more purchasing power to the converter by moving it into our better stabilized economy. Also, less risk to them of possibly losing more value than the importation-tranferrence costs if the market prices of their gold and silver holdings drop on Wall Street and elsewhere. Militia trustees and technicians could perhaps serve on rotational duty as our Treasury workers and security guards to help protect the system for us, supervised by their officers that would give reports to the rest of us to verify. The same principle for other currency options that we might decide to use ethically rather than the Fed Res debt instruments.

Edited for quote clarification.

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"They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC

GreyLmist  posted on  2013-07-19   20:18:34 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#39. To: Hmmmmm (#35) (Edited)

Thank you for your kind words and interesting post but I actually do tend to think that much of what's thought to be world history is conspiratorial with deliberate malevolence and hoaxes rather than happenstance -- to herd the masses for the war and power plans of elitists. My views on those topics are sometimes outside the range of the alt-media orthodoxy, as well as officialdom's recitations.

I think big media doesn't want to refer to our Founding Generation as the Greatest for a number of Communistic
reasons -- one being that they and their cohorts want Americans to think and act Globally, not Free and Independently. We certainly do have many problems to deal with. Studying what's been happening to America and the world since the time of Lincoln and Marx makes it difficult to look forward and move ahead with much optimism. The MSM markets optimism for warmongers and oppressors and Leftists. The alt-media has the best articles, imo, for assessing and addressing the issues of the times, past and present, but optimism seems scarce there. I find it helpful to read things occasionally that are not so glum and to think about how the Founders' perspectives could help resolve problems peacefully. Also, these two sentences in your opening paragraph were very good, optimistically and summarily:

It is surely an understatement that with competition over time FRN would lose to anything, including tulips. They are not just debt instruments, they are instruments of theft codified as "Legal Tender" by fiat.

Edited for spacing.

-------

"They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC

GreyLmist  posted on  2013-07-20   3:59:11 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#40. To: noone222, GreyLmist, BTP Holdings (#5)

I agree with parts of what you all have said and disagree with a little.

I am generally more optimistic in the long run. What I would like to see emerge from the wreckage that will be the only remnant that the monsters in The City of London really created is a more open architecture economically. A system which is neither Corporatism (which is what we have now) or Socialism (A failed idea based upon stealing from the productive to give to the unproductive). Basically enterprises owned by the people who work there. I call it "People's Capitalism". The model has emerged in a few places, but where the elite's can they have stomped it out of existence. For example a small steel mill near where I used to live was being shut down by the large corporation that owned it saying that it was not profitable enough. Unfortunately for the people in the area it was the only major employer in the area, and the workers did not want to be thrown out on their asses when the mill closed.

The response was that the workers, and local managers, got together, mortgaged everything they owned (basically) and bought the facility. Two years later the now verrry profitable operation had earned enough to where the workers were able to pay off the debt they had taken on when they bought the company. The business flourished because they had more incentive - it was THEIR business. Theft virtually ceased, and everyone worked even harder because it was THEIR business. They ended up making more money than when the business had been corporate owned and they all smiled happily on their way to the bank.

Unfortunately the elites must have noticed as when a major airline (United I believe) was going bankrupt a few years later the workers tried to buy the company, but NONE of the major banks would loan them one thin dime.

Moral of the story - we are more powerful than the criminals are and they know it, and fear US.

Perseverent Gardener
"“Believe nothing merely because you have been told it. Do not believe what your teacher tells you merely out of respect for the teacher. But whatsoever, after due examination and analysis, you find to be kind, conducive to the good, the benefit, the welfare of all beings - that doctrine believe and cling to, and take it as your guide.” ~ Gautama Siddhartha — The Buddha

Original_Intent  posted on  2013-07-20   4:56:27 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#41. To: Original_Intent (#40)

Thanks for your comment. You're right about our ability to build and resurrect any number of things relevant to our personal successes. The PTB in govt and media expend much effort in demoralizing us and when possible deny us the necessary funds or permits required to do the things that make a country great while at the same time supplying employment which tends to increase self-esteem.

Our demise is definitely being orchestrated by those that have promised to work in our interest.

Strange times are these in which we live when old and young are taught in falsehood’s school. And the one man who dares to tell the truth is called at once a lunatic and fool.

– Plato (429-347 BC)

noone222  posted on  2013-07-20   5:36:05 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#42. To: Original_Intent (#40)

A system which is neither Corporatism (which is what we have now) or Socialism (A failed idea based upon stealing from the productive to give to the unproductive). Basically enterprises owned by the people who work there.

One of the worlds first CAPITALISTS and a leader in founding socialism, Robert Owen, had different opinions in promoting the first days of socialism.

Socialism did NOT breed Capitalism, rather Socialism is the bastard child of Capitalism and Government, the two working in tandem to extract maximum wealth from the masses for the benefit of the few.

The masses owning and operating capitalist production was also tried by a socialist movement called Communism in the Soviet Union, it also failed.

Regardless of the name or intent, wealth ALWAYS moves upward from the masses to the few at the top, society has always operated this way and will never change. The masses work, changing yokes now and again for whatever "ISM" that holds the gun.

Cynicom  posted on  2013-07-20   9:23:49 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#43. To: Cynicom (#42)

Regardless of the name or intent, wealth ALWAYS moves upward from the masses to the few at the top, society has always operated this way and will never change. The masses work, changing yokes now and again for whatever "ISM" that holds the gun.

Well put - thanks.

“The most dangerous man to any government is the man who is able to think things out... without regard to the prevailing superstitions and taboos. Almost inevitably he comes to the conclusion that the government he lives under is dishonest, insane, intolerable.” ~ H. L. Mencken

Lod  posted on  2013-07-20   9:46:06 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#44. To: Cynicom (#42)

Regardless of the name or intent, wealth ALWAYS moves upward from the masses to the few at the top, society has always operated this way and will never change. The masses work, changing yokes now and again for whatever "ISM" that holds the gun.

because it's the same bastards that have been in control for centuries...and this planet isn't controlled by evil?

christine  posted on  2013-07-20   9:54:27 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#45. To: Lod, Christine (#43)

because it's the same bastards that have been in control for centuries...and this planet isn't controlled by evil?

Ike named two of the legs of the monster that controls this country, namely, military and industrial complex. That was over fifty years ago and now needs updating to include the added factions that have come to the forefront and are now EQUAL PARTNERS IN THIS CRIMINALLY CORRUPT ENTERPRISE.

Ike would add, academia, all media and most importantly, ALL THREE BRANCHES OF GOVERNMENT, that have taken on a life of their own.

The Founding Fathers would be ashamed of what we have become.

Cynicom  posted on  2013-07-20   12:08:26 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#46. To: Cynicom, christine, 4 (#45)

The earth was given over to Satan, so we shouldn't be shocked at much of anything that goes on here.

“The most dangerous man to any government is the man who is able to think things out... without regard to the prevailing superstitions and taboos. Almost inevitably he comes to the conclusion that the government he lives under is dishonest, insane, intolerable.” ~ H. L. Mencken

Lod  posted on  2013-07-20   12:19:56 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#47. To: Lod, Cynicom (#46)

The earth was given over to Satan, so we shouldn't be shocked at much of anything that goes on here.

He walks to and fro and up and down the earth and appears to be having a pretty good time.

"Have Brain, Will Travel

Turtle  posted on  2013-07-20   12:29:54 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#48. To: Turtle (#47)

He walks to and fro and up and down the earth and appears to be having a pretty good time.

It's called the Diaspora.

“Anti-semitism is a disease–you catch it from Jews”–Edgar J. Steele

“The jew cries out in pain, as he strikes you.”–Polish proverb

“I would like to express my heartfelt apologies for the unfortunate and tasteless quotes I published in my tag lines. I am very sorry and ashamed. I never wanted to offend anyone, or to encroach human rights."- Hmmmmm

Hmmmmm  posted on  2013-07-20   12:46:47 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#49. To: Cynicom (#42)

Owens' "New Lanark" was a different breed. It was effectively State Capitalism - a "benevolent" Hive. Owens was always puzzled why it didn't work.

What I am talking about is NOT Communism - where "everybody owns everything in common" and "everbuddy be eekwul". That is not ownership. No, when I say employee owned I mean exactly that - a share in the business where wages and benefits are determined by how successful the business is, and you have real managers that are hired, are themselves owners, and while receiving a larger portion commensurate with the level of responsibility, with their pay dependent as well upon how well the company performs. It is little different than a stock company except that all of the stock is owned by the people who work there and to work there you have to be willing to accept the terms i.e., be an owner and assume responsibility for the success or failure of the business.

While there would be, in a successful enterprise, an accumulation of wealth by the participants (which I view as good) by limiting "share" ownership to the people who actually work there (with only 1 share per person) you eliminate the class of bloodsuckers who just buy shares and then sit on their ass waiting for a check in the mail.

The organization of businesses along those lines would not be mandatory, but given sound managerial practice they would rather quickly leave our existing traded stock companies (corporations) in the dust.

The key difference between what I am suggesting and communism is that the businesses still compete in a free market, receive no guffermint handouts (or control), and if they don't produce a valuable product, like any other business, they go under. The difference is the dreaded "R" word - RESPONSIBILITY. The people who work there are each individually, from their own hat, responsible for the success or failure of the enterprise.

I am not, per se, a "utopian", but I have seen similar operations in practice and they do work. The two keys are real ownership, and hence real responsibility.

Perseverent Gardener
"“Believe nothing merely because you have been told it. Do not believe what your teacher tells you merely out of respect for the teacher. But whatsoever, after due examination and analysis, you find to be kind, conducive to the good, the benefit, the welfare of all beings - that doctrine believe and cling to, and take it as your guide.” ~ Gautama Siddhartha — The Buddha

Original_Intent  posted on  2013-07-20   14:09:31 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#50. To: noone222, farmfriend (#41)

Thanks for your comment.

My pleasure.

The PTB in govt and media expend much effort in demoralizing us and when possible deny us the necessary funds or permits required to do the things ...

That is exactly what the Banksters and their Psychs are doing. It is one big PsyOp aimed at creating their hellish dystopian vision of a slave society - with themselves the masters of course.

A case in point on how they seek to destroy individual self, and community, reliance played out not far from me in the Klamath Basin. Farmers, successful ones, who had built, at their own expense, a water system had the water shut off by the Feral Guffermint to protect, and I kid you not, a Sucker, a fish. Farmfriend was one of the people, bless her, who helped in the fight against the Feral Thugs. However, they successfully ruined most of the farmers and forced them off of the land. Small family farms and freeholds are not consistent mit der hive.

There is, I am thoroughly convinced, an overall plan in the transformation of our society from freedom to slavery. It is being orchestrated by the Banksters and Psychs to conform to their own psychotically hellish visions of a dystopia run by the self appointed elite. However, it is not yet at the point where they can force it upon us if enough people begin to think big enough to envision what they are actually playing at. And there lies the rub. As I pointed out on another forum a fair number of years back now most people can envision a stick-up artist knocking over the corner market, but really really big criminality spanning continents and oceans scares them into refusing to look and take responsibility thus allowing it to continue. It is a problem of lack of cojones as much as it is lack of awareness, and the two are interdependent.

Perseverent Gardener
"“Believe nothing merely because you have been told it. Do not believe what your teacher tells you merely out of respect for the teacher. But whatsoever, after due examination and analysis, you find to be kind, conducive to the good, the benefit, the welfare of all beings - that doctrine believe and cling to, and take it as your guide.” ~ Gautama Siddhartha — The Buddha

Original_Intent  posted on  2013-07-20   14:28:21 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#51. To: noone222 (#37)

This is a must read if your Liberty Dollar property was wrongfully seized. There is no doubt that everyone who is holding paper or digital warehouse receipts will eventually recover their long sought property.

I was a distributor for Liberty Dollar at one time. There may be some of those paper Dollars in my safe, but I do not recall. ;)

"When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall, one by one." Edmund Burke

BTP Holdings  posted on  2013-07-20   15:03:23 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#52. To: Original_Intent (#40)

Moral of the story - we are more powerful than the criminals are and they know it, and fear US.

God, Guts and Guns is what made this country great! ;)

"When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall, one by one." Edmund Burke

BTP Holdings  posted on  2013-07-20   15:09:51 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#53. To: BTP Holdings (#51)

I was a distributor for Liberty Dollar at one time. There may be some of those paper Dollars in my safe, but I do not recall. ;)

I had an acquaintance who was as well. Da Feds went after him with a vengeance. He was doing other things that were getting under their skin as well - like beating them in court and teaching others how to do it. When it appeared that the Judge had overstepped and his Attorney was going to have grounds for a major appeal she was strangled to death. The same evening following the Judge's corrupt ruling, in a "mysterious" break-in where nothing, apparent, was taken she was garroted while setting at her computer working on the case. She was known as a bulldog, a fighter, and was not corrupt. Until her "untimely" death it was looking as though she would mount a successful defense.

Perseverent Gardener
"“Believe nothing merely because you have been told it. Do not believe what your teacher tells you merely out of respect for the teacher. But whatsoever, after due examination and analysis, you find to be kind, conducive to the good, the benefit, the welfare of all beings - that doctrine believe and cling to, and take it as your guide.” ~ Gautama Siddhartha — The Buddha

Original_Intent  posted on  2013-07-20   15:18:04 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#54. To: BTP Holdings (#52)

God, Guts and Guns is what made this country great! ;)

Combined with knowledge and awareness.

Perseverent Gardener
"“Believe nothing merely because you have been told it. Do not believe what your teacher tells you merely out of respect for the teacher. But whatsoever, after due examination and analysis, you find to be kind, conducive to the good, the benefit, the welfare of all beings - that doctrine believe and cling to, and take it as your guide.” ~ Gautama Siddhartha — The Buddha

Original_Intent  posted on  2013-07-20   15:18:52 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#55. To: Original_Intent (#54)

Combined with knowledge and awareness.

You need some of both, to get the advantage, and keep it. ;)

"When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall, one by one." Edmund Burke

BTP Holdings  posted on  2013-07-20   15:43:07 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#56. To: Original_Intent, noone222 (#50)

Farmers, successful ones, who had built, at their own expense, a water system had the water shut off by the Feral Guffermint to protect, and I kid you not, a Sucker, a fish.

oh it was much worse than that. Klamath was one of the things that convinced me that neither Republican or Democrats were for the little guy. Klamath took place under Bush's watch.

It was determined through "peer reviewed science" that the sucker fish needed more water in a lake that was at record high levels. Water was lapping up on the highway yet it was determined more water was needed therefore the farmers could not take their water, and it did belong to them, because it would drop the level of the lake. mind you this also cut off water to a wildlife habitat that was part of the pacific fly way.

two more facts for you about this debacle:

the government official who decided how much water had to be saved for the fish was the commodore of the local yacht club. that was the first year they didn't have to pull their boats from the water because the farmers weren't allowed to lower the lake level.

the sucker fish that science showed needed deeper water does very well in Tule lake which is a foot and a half deep.


A study group recently released its findings as to the best presidents of the United States of America.

Obama has been rated as the 4th best president ever:

Reagan and 9 others tied for first, 15 presidents tied for second, 18 tied for third, and Obama came in fourth.

farmfriend  posted on  2013-07-20   16:37:05 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#57. To: farmfriend, noone222 (#56)

No arguments here. The "Sucker" was the pretext but was not the reason that der guffermint came down with their usual Jack Boots. This was part of the "Wilding" and "Citification" (Agenda 21) push. People on farms are independent and resist guffermint encroachments - particularly family farmers (and small business owners). People in large cities are dependent upon shipped in food, utilities, water, etc., .... Those are all control levers. Don't do what der guffermint says? Then don't eat. People are funny that way - cut off the food supply, even if tainted with toxic GMOs, and they become very amenable to der vishes uff Der Fuhrer.

Perseverent Gardener
"“Believe nothing merely because you have been told it. Do not believe what your teacher tells you merely out of respect for the teacher. But whatsoever, after due examination and analysis, you find to be kind, conducive to the good, the benefit, the welfare of all beings - that doctrine believe and cling to, and take it as your guide.” ~ Gautama Siddhartha — The Buddha

Original_Intent  posted on  2013-07-20   16:48:40 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#58. To: All (#31)

HAARP Has Not Shutdown, Only Bought By The Highest Bidder Group — TheWeatherSpace.com | July 16

Cross-referencing possible HAARP related info updates at Post #1 of 4um Title: The 9/11 Fed Cash Flows Mystery

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"They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC

GreyLmist  posted on  2013-07-23   6:28:00 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#59. To: All (#38)

[Dr. Vieira] talks about how we could transact online with gold and silver; in precise measurements to make change as needed. Probably not many of us would have gold and silver in the early stages to transact with that way but I think that situation would improve soon as it started making its way through our participatory economy.

I would suggest for our usage as sound money that the valuation of our precious metal inventories be set by a stable standard of weights and measures, not market fluctuations. Congress could do that for us if they weren't scoundrels but likely won't. Am not sure but the States might not be able to involve themselves in the weights and measures process of helping to make Dr. Vieira's Bitcoin-like idea workable, since they are prohibited by the Constitution from coining money and emitting bills of credit too. We the People could set the weight and measure values ourselves by agreement.

Paper Drive 1945 - Woodrow Wilson Junior High School, San Jose CA - YouTube

Uploaded on Jun 28, 2011 - 2 minute video

A paper and scrap drive held by students of Woodrow Wilson Junior High School in approximately 1945.

Woodrow Wilson of Fed Res notoriety.

Was trying to think of how we could start stocking our own Treasury with phyical gold and silver -- enough to get more and more people using our sound monetary system soon in our own economic club. Remembered that there used to be paper drives years ago and thought: We could probably get rid of a bunch of FRNs by doing something like that. Whoever donated some of their paper FRNs so that our Treasury could buy up physical gold and silver from "the markets" could maybe get a receipt that would be redeemable for a special FRN Paper Drive Collector Coin. We could even have an ongoing FRN Paper Drive in exchange for Collector Coins everyday. Some people might want to use their receipt for deposit into the Bitcoin-like method of transacting instead of getting a Collector Coin. I reckon either way should be doable without too much difficulty in constructing those coinage systems.

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"They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC

GreyLmist  posted on  2013-07-23   9:15:21 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#60. To: GreyLmist, 4 (#59)

As long as the synagogue of satan runs the fed, the banks, and wall street; we will continue to be screwed mercilessly.

And then it all implodes.

“The most dangerous man to any government is the man who is able to think things out... without regard to the prevailing superstitions and taboos. Almost inevitably he comes to the conclusion that the government he lives under is dishonest, insane, intolerable.” ~ H. L. Mencken

Lod  posted on  2013-07-28   15:52:42 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#61. To: Horse (#0)

We’re in a post-capitalist, post-socialism world. I have just come back from the G8 protests in Belfast and it occurred to me – at this point; we’re post both capitalism and socialism – and this point needs to be made clear, but we also see some vestiges of both systems in a new, emerging economy that has yet to be named.

I thought Winston Churchil nailed it (but did not go far enough):

"The fundamental flaw of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings. The fundamental flaw of socialism is the equal sharing of misery."

While I prefer the freedom of a free market the flaw in the ointment is the rise of a corrupt plutocratic class as we have now.

Capitalism, as it has been practiced in the West, requires an ever expanding system of expanding money and credit to avoid collapse. In other words it is inherently unstable. Why? Because the monied interests cannot resist the psychotic impulse to simply expand the amount of "money" in the system thus increasing their own apparent wealth without commensurate production of new goods and services to balance the monetary expansion. This is in more basic terms a "Criminal Exchange" i.e., something for nothing. This is no different, although on a much larger scale, and sanctioned by a corrupt government, than the same thing a "stick-up" artist does when he hits the corner market, or a Highwayman. "Stand and Deliver!"

Unfortunately, in our intentionally dumbed down Publik Skools, most people are kept ignorant of the basic facts of how economic systems have actually worked in practice. The "Robber Barons" were never really shut down as such, they simply went to a new "Tailor".

"“Believe nothing merely because you have been told it. Do not believe what your teacher tells you merely out of respect for the teacher. But whatsoever, after due examination and analysis, you find to be kind, conducive to the good, the benefit, the welfare of all beings - that doctrine believe and cling to, and take it as your guide.” ~ Gautama Siddhartha — The Buddha

Any sufficiently advanced stupidity is indistinguishable from evil. ~ Unk (Paraphrase of Clarke's 3rd Law: "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.")

Original_Intent  posted on  2013-07-28   16:21:12 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#62. To: Lod (#60)

And then it all implodes.

"Does anybody really know what time it is? Does anybody really care?" -- The Chicago Transit Authority aka Chicago for short

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"They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC

GreyLmist  posted on  2013-07-29   7:39:10 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#63. To: GreyLmist (#62)

25 or 6 to 4, I guess.

(Man, 43 years ago...)

“The most dangerous man to any government is the man who is able to think things out... without regard to the prevailing superstitions and taboos. Almost inevitably he comes to the conclusion that the government he lives under is dishonest, insane, intolerable.” ~ H. L. Mencken

Lod  posted on  2013-07-29   7:51:43 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#64. To: Lod (#63)

25 or 6 to 4, I guess.

LOL Sounds about right to me. :)

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"They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC

GreyLmist  posted on  2013-07-29   10:02:15 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


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