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Title: Keiser: The Collapse of the Current Bankster Regime is Upon Us
Source: [None]
URL Source: http://www.infowars.com/keiser-the- ... nt-bankster-regime-is-upon-us/
Published: Jun 17, 2013
Author: Max Keiser
Post Date: 2013-06-17 13:22:26 by Horse
Keywords: None
Views: 6133
Comments: 64

We’re in a post-capitalist, post-socialism world. I have just come back from the G8 protests in Belfast and it occurred to me – at this point; we’re post both capitalism and socialism – and this point needs to be made clear, but we also see some vestiges of both systems in a new, emerging economy that has yet to be named.

I agree with the G8 protesters in Belfast that capitalism – as it’s been iterated in the West in the post WWII era has run its course. The main cause for its demise, as I see it, is that during the 1980’s; thanks to deregulation, futures and options speculation and leverage migrated over to the burgeoning field of ‘financial futures’ and the price discovery mechanism associated with supply and demand and the ‘invisible hand’ – over the ensuing few decades – completely broke down. Money itself lost any anchor to value as futures traders speculated with virtually no risk on contracts worth many billions that had been willed into existence by financial engineers not by dint of any underlying economic activity.

And there’s no going back now. You see, financial futures are trading on prices that are based – not on any underlying economic reality – but rather a series of assumptions based on academically-concatenated theories and theorems which in turn generate a new set of prices. The result is that capital flows into destabilizing ‘malinvestments’ all hidden by the outsized returns of intermediaries like hedge funds who make billions mining what has become essentially a broken system of monetizing fraud.

Since the rising unemployment and social unrest these financially engineered malinvestments produce is ignored, because hedge funds have been making lots of money, nobody is willing to step forward and suggest that making money at the expense of a sound market might be a bad thing. The fake prices are never questioned and the fraudulently garnered riches are always celebrated.

Prices for all commodities and securities have permanently lost their connection to a functioning economy. Once a pickle, never a cucumber. Financialized capitalism is now in its death throes.

What about socialism?

As that term is generally understood – it has also burnt out. Central planning, hierarchical governments, and doctrines guaranteeing ‘fairness’ simply don’t work; primarily because all centrally planned systems of markets and governments fail the ‘naturalness’ test. Nothing in nature works for long that is so rigid and unadaptable as man made experiments in central planning except for a few parasites and cancer.

Today we have hybrid models that contain bits from the previous schools that are racing ahead to fill the vacuum left by collapse of both capitalism and socialism.

Crowdfunding is an emergent idea. It owes a debt of gratitude to socialism. It’s part of ‘social networking,’ a phenomenon of leveraging the ‘the whole is greater than the sum of the parts’ idea. Keep in mind that Google’s multi-billion dollar valuation is driven by billions of individuals donating their time and creativity to the collective. So too for ‘open-source’ software and p2p file swapping. But there is also a necessary component of competition associated with free market capitalism in crowd funding. A platform like Kickstarter allows for ideas to compete in a free market – where the funds flow where the market goes; not where a central planner wants funds to go.

Bitcoin is also a post capitalism/socialism hybrid. It’s growth is driven by a hard coded, centrally imagined algorithm while it’s adoption is possible via the free market activities of users who are rejecting centrally planned, bogus fiat currencies like Pounds, Dollars, and Yen and using Bitcoin instead.

The collapse of the current bankster regime is upon us. This means a whole new set of winners and losers. The point is that it’s not all grim. The future is being imagined and implemented as we speak.

Special for Infowars from Max Keiser, host of Russia Today’s Keiser Report, a no holds barred look at the shocking scandals behind the global financial headlines. See his latest report discussing the price holograms in a simulated economy.


Poster Comment:

Max has a limited perspective.

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TopPage UpFull ThreadPage DownBottom/Latest

#1. To: Horse (#0) (Edited)

The Collapse of the Current Bankster Regime is Upon Us

Max has a limited perspective.

I really cannot wait for the FED to collapse. It has been robbing the people blind for too many years.

What we will get in its place is hard to tell at this point. But, hopefully those traitors in the District of Criminals will get some spines and give us something honest that we can all live with.

I hear Bitcoin has a few advantages over traditional fiat currency.

There is no money since the abrogation of the gold standard. All debts MUST be discharged. ;)

"When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall, one by one." Edmund Burke

BTP Holdings  posted on  2013-06-17   16:43:34 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#2. To: BTP Holdings (#1)

There is no money since the abrogation of the gold standard. All debts MUST be discharged. ;)

Interesting.

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"They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC

GreyLmist  posted on  2013-06-17   19:28:36 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#3. To: GreyLmist (#2)

There is no money since the abrogation of the gold standard. All debts MUST be discharged. ;)

Interesting.

There is also NO CONSTITUTION for the same reason, at least not in the jurisdictional environment of COMMERCE where debt is monetized but it's not constitutional money.

As long as we had Constitutionally authorized "MONEY" we had a Constitution.

Strange times are these in which we live when old and young are taught in falsehood’s school. And the one man who dares to tell the truth is called at once a lunatic and fool.

– Plato (429-347 BC)

noone222  posted on  2013-06-17   20:11:26 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#4. To: noone222, BTP Holdings (#3)

As you know, I just don't think of commerce and the money system as having any actual jurisdictional legitimacy that supplants/nullifies the Constitution. I know it seems so, what with the artficial stratosphere the operators there have devised as if they're above Constitutional law like Olympiads and can impose their dictats on us who do abide by the Constitution as our real government. But, let's pause that debate and focus instead on what BTP said about the abrogation of the gold standard meaning that all debts must be cancelled. Sounds good to me. How about you?

-------

"They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC

GreyLmist  posted on  2013-06-17   23:04:34 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#5. To: GreyLmist (#4)

But, let's pause that debate and focus instead on what BTP said about the abrogation of the gold standard meaning that all debts must be cancelled. Sounds good to me. How about you?

Your positions are based in emotion with little regard for facts.

I too, long for constitutional governance but there is no evidence that the gargantuan machination we call the UNITED STATES (a commercial entity) has any intention of forfeiting its commercial stranglehold on its "customers" that have VOLUNTARILY entered the commercial arena via convenience agreements based upon debt based commercial paper.

The courts are bound by these agreements (contracts) because the constitution clearly allows for the making of contracts without government interference.

As fars as "all debts must be discharged" goes that's a given. In an absolute debt based system absent real money - the only means of resolving debt is by discharge which doesn't EXTINGUISH the debt through payment but merely relieves the debtor of his/her obligation to honor the "promise to pay." Everyone in this system of finance is a liar and a thief because the promise to pay CANNOT be kept.

Strange times are these in which we live when old and young are taught in falsehood’s school. And the one man who dares to tell the truth is called at once a lunatic and fool.

– Plato (429-347 BC)

noone222  posted on  2013-06-18   6:23:01 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#6. To: noone222 (#3)

There is also NO CONSTITUTION

I have a book at home titled, "Constitution, Fact or Fiction". Have not read it in a while but it seems to me that you are correct about what you say. ;)

"When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall, one by one." Edmund Burke

BTP Holdings  posted on  2013-06-18   16:50:11 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#7. To: GreyLmist (#4) (Edited)

the abrogation of the gold standard meaning that all debts must be cancelled.

That should say "all debts must be DISCHARGED".

You cannot PAY your debts since there is no money. So, all debts must be discharged.

"When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall, one by one." Edmund Burke

BTP Holdings  posted on  2013-06-18   17:08:23 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#8. To: BTP Holdings, noone222 (#6)

noone222 at Post #3: There is also NO CONSTITUTION

BTP Holdings at Post #6: I have a book at home titled, "Constitution, Fact or Fiction". Have not read it in a while but it seems to me that you are correct about what you say. ;)

Jumpin' Jimminy Crickets! You are not being helpful to the case you presented yourself at Post #1, BTP: "There is no money since the abrogation of the gold standard. All debts MUST be discharged. ;)"

On what basis of law, praytell, would your call to cancel all debts as unrepayable due to the abrogation of the gold standard be even partially correct without the Constitution's stipulation that the States make nothing but gold and silver Coin a Tender in Payment for their debt purposes?

-------

"They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC

GreyLmist  posted on  2013-06-18   17:26:52 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#9. To: GreyLmist (#8) (Edited)

On what basis of law, praytell, would your call to cancel all debts as unrepayable due to the abrogation of the gold standard be even partially correct without the Constitution's stipulation that the States make nothing but gold and silver Coin a Tender in Payment for their debt purposes?

The founders knew that meaningless "promises to pay" (commercial paper) utilized by banksters and merchants should not be associated in any way with their Constitutional Govt, and to this day it isn't associated with the organic, Constitutional Government. It is the property of the FEDERAL RESERVE, permitted by the UNITED STATES INCORPORATED.

Today, those with bank accounts are considered under their laws as CREDITORS to the bank where they thought they had a deposit and will be treated as such when the banks collapse.

Have you collected the interest on your loan TO THE BANK ?

EDIT: Isn't that usury ?

Of course, most Americans are card carrying members of the FEDERAL SYSTEM (which shouldn't be confused with the National Government) that operates within the UNITED STATES CORP. through socialist security - which the framers would have scoffed into oblivion.

Strange times are these in which we live when old and young are taught in falsehood’s school. And the one man who dares to tell the truth is called at once a lunatic and fool.

– Plato (429-347 BC)

noone222  posted on  2013-06-18   18:08:34 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#10. To: noone222, BTP Holdings (#9) (Edited)

noone222 at Post #5 and Post #9

So, discharging debt is the proper terminology for the issue rather than cancellation of debt. Ok, will use that phrasing instead. As you might recall, noone, I'm not much of a goldbug except on the matter of States being directed by the Constitution to use gold and silver for their debt purposes, fixed in value to a Standard of Weights and Measures set by Congress rather than erratic market fluctuations. I think that some of our problem is that fiat-issued money looks the same as money earned by We the People in exchange for our goods and services. I don't think it's the paper-form itself that is undermining our Republic when that paper represents actual time and effort invested in producing goods and services. Usurious/debt-based/fractional reserve/fiat conjured pretend money should be stamped with a warning label about that and money issued to We the People for our economic and societal contributions should be stamped as sound, production-backed and approved by the government. Neither do I think that businesses can override the Constitution by contracts that violate it and interfere with our right to a Republican form of government rather than a gambling casino-model run by Mafiosos. If they could just do whatever they want contractually, the Supreme Court and others would be less busy, imo.

We might not be able to agree on all of that but I was watching videos on Nixon's speech about taking America off the gold standard and would like to point out that he said it was a temporary measure to defend the dollar from speculators, with conditional exceptions for convertability to gold in the interest of monetary stability. He was wrong that it would keep our money from losing value and Constitutionally wrong on other points in the speech (like taxing imports himself, for instance) but am posting it below because I would like to hear your opinions and others on the temporary and conditional aspects that he mentioned around the 1:00 mark:

Nixon Ends Bretton Woods International Monetary System -- 4 minutes

Edited for formatting.

-------

"They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC

GreyLmist  posted on  2013-06-18   21:50:32 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#11. To: GreyLmist (#10)

I will listen to Nixon's speech after I respond to your post and may have more to add afterwards.

Our low opinion of the currency in place today is very similar. We don't like it. I also agree that it looks like the former "silver backed" currency in order to fool the public into thinking nothing has changed. (But much did change because the FEDERAL RESERVE NOTE is the private property of the banksters and they have no obligation to uphold or even recognize the constitution.)

Is this situation born out of fraud ? I think so as do you.

What has happened is that we the people have unwittingly entered the bank's private area of authority by agreement through usage of their INTERNAL currency and credit system. At the same time, Washington D.C. has been incorporated under the title United States (FEDERAL GOVT not national govt) and is obligated to honor the FEDERAL RESERVE.

I wish it weren't so and believe it will ultimately lead to some form of revolution or WW III.

The only way for America to operate under the original Constitution is to return to sound monetary policies that are at the same time authorized constitutionally. If there's an Amendment that's properly passed to use paper currency without regard to a gold/silver standard that would also suit me and I think it would be lawful and leave us with our constitutional republic.

As I mentioned above, for all practical purposes we are currently "residing" within the structure of the bank (or owned by the FEDERAL RESERVE) and not the Constitutional republic.

There is a case, Clearfield Trust Co. v. United States, 318 U.S. 363 (1943) wherein the court states (paraphrasing) that when a governmental organization resorts to the use of commercial paper it reduces its authority to that of any other commercial enterprise. At this juncture all organizations utilize commercial paper because that's all there is in circulation.

Strange times are these in which we live when old and young are taught in falsehood’s school. And the one man who dares to tell the truth is called at once a lunatic and fool.

– Plato (429-347 BC)

noone222  posted on  2013-06-19   8:13:40 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#12. To: GreyLmist (#10)

OK, I listened. Nixon was a liar. And, by the way, our currency (internally) had already been dispossesed of its backing prior to this action. The action Nixon was taking at this time was more impacting upon international organizations that had been collecting gold payments that were being terminated. In that regard Nixon was merely telling the international community that we were going to start "discharging" our obligations with fiat currency instead of gold.

[Whether or not we had gold reserves remaining is questionable.]

Lastly, manufacturing and production of marketable goods that the world wishes to purchase from us is the critical element to the establishment of a solid currency. When we build or create the things the world can't do without then they have to find a way to trade with us. By that, I mean they have to convert their currency to ours in order to make a purchase and at that point WE DETERMINE the value of their currency.

Since we have been sliding backwards with respect to manufacturing and production in general our currency has declined in value proportionately.

Strange times are these in which we live when old and young are taught in falsehood’s school. And the one man who dares to tell the truth is called at once a lunatic and fool.

– Plato (429-347 BC)

noone222  posted on  2013-06-19   8:29:28 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#13. To: GreyLmist (#10) (Edited)

Neither do I think that businesses can override the Constitution by contracts that violate it and interfere with our right to a Republican form of government rather than a gambling casino-model run by Mafiosos. If they could just do whatever they want contractually, the Supreme Court and others would be less busy, imo.

When a contract is lawfully entered into, the parties to it are bound by its terms. This is the law, Commercial Law, that is.

It seems that we are being run more and more by the corporations since the Republic that Ben Franklin spoke of no longer exists because of the aforementioned Act of 1871, which turned the U.S. Government into a corporation. ;)

"When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall, one by one." Edmund Burke

BTP Holdings  posted on  2013-06-19   17:05:48 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#14. To: noone222 (#12)

[Whether or not we had gold reserves remaining is questionable.]

The FED took control of the gold in Fort Knox as collateral on the debt. It is in the sub-basement at 333 Liberty Street in NYC, another address for the Federal Reserve. There might be enough gold there to fill three Olympic size swimming pools. ;)

"When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall, one by one." Edmund Burke

BTP Holdings  posted on  2013-06-20   17:03:45 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#15. To: BTP Holdings (#13)

Me: Neither do I think that businesses can override the Constitution by contracts that violate it and interfere with our right to a Republican form of government rather than a gambling casino-model run by Mafiosos. If they could just do whatever they want contractually, the Supreme Court and others would be less busy, imo.

BTP Holdings: When a contract is lawfully entered into, the parties to it are bound by its terms. This is the law, Commercial Law, that is.

The keyword is lawfully. There is no lawful overriding of Constitutional Law by Commercial Law here.

-------

"They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC

GreyLmist  posted on  2013-06-21   10:24:36 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#16. To: BTP Holdings (#13)

You at #13 of this thread:

It seems that we are being run more and more by the corporations since the Republic that Ben Franklin spoke of no longer exists because of the aforementioned Act of 1871, which turned the U.S. Government into a corporation. ;)

Your Post #19 at 4um Title: They’re closing libraries in London and New York

Sad to tell you but the U.S. Government IS a corporation spelled in all capital letters, UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT. This law was passed in 1871. So, it seems they have been doing this to us for far too long. It's long past time to get out from under it. I have already done so by filing my Security Agreement. This is a sure thing in a world in which there are far too many variables.;)

Who would be the Board of Directors? We the People of the Constitution, in which case we could simply dissolve the corporation and reseat our legitimate government with Constitutionalists. But we aren't obligated to dissolve what isn't Constitutionally valid, so we could proceed without that delaying formality and go directly to the reseating stage even quicker.

The U.S. Government was not really turned into a corporate dictatorship of our nation by the formation through the years of D.C. as our capital. That meme has been promulgated as a false obstacle course to deplete the morale and numbers of Patriots with defeatism. Please review Post #35 of 4um Title: The CIA controls Evergreen Air Death Dumps

by the Act of 1871, [Washington D.C.'s] territory was limited to the District of Columbia and it was defined as a municipal corporation, which means it was limited to the affairs of city government. Three years later, on June 20, 1874, a new Act was passed by Congress that abolished the original city government and replaced it with a three-man [city] commission, appointed by the President with the consent of the Senate. Its scope as a municipality did not change. A third Act of Congress, dated June 11, 1878, clarified the powers of the [city] Commission but retained all the essential features of the previous Act, especially those that defined the nature of the District of Columbia as a municipal administrative unit.

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"They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC

GreyLmist  posted on  2013-06-21   13:40:28 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#17. To: All (#16) (Edited)

The U.S. Government was not really turned into a corporate dictatorship of our nation by the formation through the years of D.C. as our capital. That meme has been promulgated as a false obstacle course to deplete the morale and numbers of Patriots with defeatism. Please review Post #35 of 4um Title: The CIA controls Evergreen Air Death Dumps

See also these Wikipedia reference links for additional info:

Washington, D.C.

Congress passed the Organic Act [charter] of 1871, which repealed the individual charters [Organic Acts] of the cities of Washington and Georgetown, and a created a new territorial [district] government for the whole District of Columbia.[28] President Grant appointed Alexander Robey Shepherd to the position of [D.C.] governor in 1873.

In 1874, Congress replaced the territorial [district] government with an appointed three-member Board of Commissioners. [29]

Residence Act

The Residence Act of 1790, officially titled An Act for establishing the temporary and permanent [capital] seat of the Government of the United States, is the United States federal law that settled the question of locating the capital of the United States, selecting a site along the Potomac River.

The federal government was located in New York City at the time the bill was passed and had previously been located in Philadelphia, Annapolis and several other settlements.

The Residence Act gave authority to President George Washington to select an exact site for the capital, along the Potomac, and set a deadline of December 1800 for the capital to be ready.

The Constitution granted power to Congress over a federal [capital] district, with Article I, Section 8 of the Constitution stating:

To exercise exclusive Legislation in all Cases whatsoever, over such District (not exceeding ten Miles square) as may, by Cession of particular States, and the Acceptance of Congress, become the [capital] Seat of the Government of the United States, and to exercise like Authority over all Places purchased by the Consent of the Legislature of the State in which the Same [capital district] shall be, for the Erection of Forts, Magazines, Arsenals, dock-Yards, and other needful buildings.[6]

District of Columbia Organic Act of 1801

The District of Columbia Organic Act of 1801 (officially An Act Concerning the District of Columbia) (6th Congress, 2nd Sess., ch. 15, 2 Stat. 103, enacted 1801-02-27) is an Organic Act [charter] enacted by the United States Congress in accordance with Article 1, Section 8 of the United States Constitution.

It formally placed the District of Columbia under the control of the United States Congress and organized the [capital district's] unincorporated territory within the District into two counties: Washington County to the north and east of the Potomac River and Alexandria County to the west and south

The charters of the existing cities of Georgetown and Alexandria were left in place and no change was made to their status. The common law of both Maryland and Virginia continued to remain in force within the District.[1] A court was established in each of the new counties.[2]

The District of Columbia Organic Act of 1871 replaced the municipal governments of the City of Washington, Georgetown, and Washington County with a single, unified government for the whole District.

Following the passage of this Act, residents of the District of Columbia were no longer considered to be residents of either Maryland or Virginia. This left District residents unable to vote for members of Congress. They have voted in Presidential elections since the adoption of the Twenty third Amendment in 1961 (which first applied in the election of 1964). District residents are represented in the House of Representatives by a non-voting delegate who may vote in committee and participate in debate, but cannot vote for final passage of a bill in the House.

District of Columbia Organic Act of 1871

The District of Columbia Organic Act of 1871, formally An Act to provide a Government for the District of Columbia, is an Act of Congress that repealed the individual charters of the cities of Washington and Georgetown and established a new territorial government for the whole District of Columbia. Though Congress repealed the territorial [district] government in 1874, the legislation was the first to create a single municipal government for the federal [capital] district. [1] The passage of the Residence Act in 1790 created a new federal district that would become the capital of the United States.

Shortly after establishing operations in the new capital, Congress passed the Organic Act of 1801, which organized the federal [capital district] territory. Congress allowed the cities of Washington and Georgetown to each maintain their own municipal governments. The remainder of the unincorporated territory within the federal [capital] district formed the new County of Washington, which was governed by a levy court consisting of three Justices of the Peace appointed by the President. The City of Alexandria and adjacent Alexandria County also maintained their own local governments but were returned by Congress to the state of Virginia in 1846.

Congress passed the Organic Act of 1871, which revoked the individual charters of the cities of Washington and Georgetown and combined them with Washington County to create a unified territorial [district] government for the entire District of Columbia.

The new [district] government [not "the new federal government"] consisted of an appointed governor and 11-member council, a locally elected 22-member assembly, and a board of public works charged with modernizing the city.

In 1874, Congress replaced the District's quasi-elected territorial [district - not national] government with an appointed three-member Board of Commissioners. Direct rule by Congress would continue for nearly a century until the passage of the District of Columbia Home Rule Act in 1973.[10]

Edited for formatting.

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"They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC

GreyLmist  posted on  2013-06-21   16:31:48 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#18. To: noone222 (#11) (Edited)

There is a case, Clearfield Trust Co. v. United States, 318 U.S. 363 (1943) wherein the court states (paraphrasing) that when a governmental organization resorts to the use of commercial paper it reduces its authority to that of any other commercial enterprise. At this juncture all organizations utilize commercial paper because that's all there is in circulation.

Clearfield Trust Co. v. United States - Wikipedia

Sorry for the delay. I'm having trouble sorting that one out currently but, near as I can tell, the commercial paper the Federal government was transacting in was a paycheck (not FRNs) issued for a WPA government-program worker for $24.20 that [allegedly] got stolen and the signature forged but it was cashed by J.C. Penney who sent it on to Clearfield to collect reimbursement [from the government] of the funds [J.C. Penney] had paid out, neither one [allegedly] knowing that it was forged. The paycheck had been mailed [to the WPA worker] by the Federal Reserve Bank of Philadelphia, drawn on the Treasurer of the United States.

It was 1936, 3 years or so after FDR confiscated gold, but if the paycheck had been cashed by the person it was made out to, they could have probably asked for payment in silver coin if they wanted to do that or foreign currency. Probably the companies could have collected in silver or foreign coin too at the time from the Treasurer, if that's what they wanted, and I'm not sure what form of money they were paid with but apparently the Fed Res didn't know the check was forged either until after they got the money. The U.S. government wanted to be reimbursed for the loss that the companies had caused by accepting the forgery. I think because what was initially involved was a commercial paper check and not Federal Treasury money at that point, there was a problem with court jurisdiction - whether it was a State or Federal matter - and something to do with State law about the length of time until a notification of the forgery was received. I think the ruling went that it was a Federal matter and the companies were liable to pay for the government's loss.

Justice Douglas held that the U.S. government, “as drawee of commercial paper stands in no different light than any other drawee” [meaning the same as any other business transactor issuing a check? -- didn't have to just absorb the loss itself caused by a thief and the negligence of the two companies?] and could recover on a check as a drawee from a person who had cashed a pension check with a forged endorsement, despite the government's protracted delay in giving notice of the forgery [which it hadn't received promptly itself; State law issue]. That's where it gets more confusing for me. Also, somehow SCOTUS crafted a new rule and deemed it like Common Law thereafter because there supposedly wasn't an adequate established law for them to reference for some reason. ??? I could surely be wrong on my case interpretation. I'm fairly certain, though, that SCOTUS is not supposed to be in the business of legislating from the bench by making up Common Law according to its ruling preferences - especially not unilaterally like it did.

Edited paragraph 1 for bracketed inserts + 1st sentence of paragraph 2 + typos.

P.S. I kind of suspect this pittance of a monetary issue was concocted to get the Common Law boundaries moved or something like that.

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"They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC

GreyLmist  posted on  2013-06-21   20:13:53 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#19. To: GreyLmist (#16) (Edited)

Who would be the Board of Directors?

The Board of Directors of the United States Government is the United States Congress. ;)

"When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall, one by one." Edmund Burke

BTP Holdings  posted on  2013-06-22   14:26:01 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#20. To: GreyLmist (#15)

There is no lawful overriding of Constitutional Law by Commercial Law here.

Nope. The Constitution takes priority over all other laws. If there is a question of any law's Constitutionality, it goes to Federal Court. If it gets to the Supremes, it has meandered its way thru all of the legal hurdles that the lawyers may subject it to.

However, Commercial Law does take precedence over any other law, since it does have priority over Civil Law. Criminal Law, however, does trump everything else. ;)

"When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall, one by one." Edmund Burke

BTP Holdings  posted on  2013-06-22   14:31:29 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#21. To: GreyLmist (#17)

Direct rule by Congress would continue for nearly a century until the passage of the District of Columbia Home Rule Act in 1973.

This "Home Rule" stuff is how they do it in Illinois. This is why there is such a patchwork of laws with things such as gun control. ;)

"When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall, one by one." Edmund Burke

BTP Holdings  posted on  2013-06-22   14:39:24 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#22. To: BTP Holdings (#19)

Me: Who would be the Board of Directors?

BTP Holdings: The Board of Directors of the United States Government is the United States Congress. ;)

They don't get to be the acting Board of Directors with any legitimacy when they're in rebellion against the Constitution. That job then goes to the States. If they're in rebellion against the Constitution too, then it gets reassigned to We the People of America's Constitutional Republic who are the actual Board of Directors that they are all supposed to be working for anyway. ;)

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"They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC

GreyLmist  posted on  2013-07-15   5:36:32 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#23. To: GreyLmist (#22) (Edited)

They don't get to be the acting Board of Directors with any legitimacy when they're in rebellion against the Constitution. That job then goes to the States. If they're in rebellion against the Constitution too, then it gets reassigned to We the People of America's Constitutional Republic who are the actual Board of Directors that they are all supposed to be working for anyway.

Plus, we have not had a real Senate since they passed the 17th Amendment, which allowed Senators to be elected by popular vote, rather than be appointed by the several State's Legislatures. ;)

"When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall, one by one." Edmund Burke

BTP Holdings  posted on  2013-07-15   16:31:56 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#24. To: BTP Holdings (#23) (Edited)

Plus, we have not had a real Senate since they passed the 17th Amendment, which allowed Senators to be elected by popular vote, rather than be appointed by the several State's Legislatures. ;)

Good point. It was 1913 when that Commie demolishment and hijacking of our government process was orchestrated, along with the 16th/Income Tax deception, the IRS and the Federal Reserve to destroy our money and our economy. The ADL/Anti-Defamation League was also started that year. Then they sent our men into WWI and started pushing their next two agitative stratagems: Prohibition and "Women's Suffrage" to topple America more leftward politically, as is the "Socialist" direction many women tend to vote. The Marx/Lincoln era of horrendous "Civil War" here is when the Communist Revolution began in America, imo -- with Biblical/ritualistic sounding place names for the initial killing fields. They try to insist these days that the 2nd Amendment is for the National Guards but there was no "National Guard" for over 100 years from the time the Constitution was enacted. They arranged that to wrongfully ship our Militias out of the country for foreign Wars. 1913, though, was when the Communist takeover here moved frenetically to get their coup-forces provisioned for "conflict management" of our nation and others into WWI and the Russian Revolution, etc. There is scarcely any facet of America that hasn't been devastated through the century and a half of their maelstrom since Lincoln's War. They are not the real government of our Constitutional Republic. The Constitution is our government and they are insurrectionists.

This link at dailypaul.com has a discussion of the 17th Amendment, which needs to be abolished and all of their other wreckages too.

Edited for spelling + last sentence.

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"They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC

GreyLmist  posted on  2013-07-16   11:47:06 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#25. To: noone222 (#12) (Edited)

...manufacturing and production of marketable goods that the world wishes to purchase from us is the critical element to the establishment of a solid currency. When we build or create the things the world can't do without then they have to find a way to trade with us. By that, I mean they have to convert their currency to ours in order to make a purchase and at that point WE DETERMINE the value of their currency.

Since we have been sliding backwards with respect to manufacturing and production in general our currency has declined in value proportionately.

I thought of what you said there as I was watching a video yesterday about our nation's money problems and others -- much of our impoverishment due to the inflationary "Quantitative Easing" fiascos of bailouts and banker bonuses and such. I set that link to 18:35 for a segment of the video (until 20:23) where G. Edward Griffin talks about America exporting its inflation to import foreign products here. That, of course, is further damaging to our manufacturing and production which was already drastically reduced long ago. He didn't exactly say that Federal Reserve notes were being mass produced like trinkets for exporters but that's the impression I got. Then he described how the foreign countries flood our markets with that near worthless FRN junk by importing it back here to get rid of it. I was trying to think of what American markets they would even be interested much in purchasing from, since our manufacturing and production is so scarce: Weaponry, some farm and food products, some vehicles, so-called "entertainment industry" items that are mostly trash. And then it occurred to me that buying exports from us was probably not their objective so much as is buying up our properties, businesses and infrastructures. Americans are being genocidally poverty-stricken and dispossesed of our country. Their malevolent money schemes are designed to ensure that most of us cannot save up enough monetarily to stop their asset takeovers and many can't even sustain their own households anymore. We need a money system of our own and fast.

Edited for punctuation.

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"They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC

GreyLmist  posted on  2013-07-16   17:11:48 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#26. To: GreyLmist (#24)

They try to insist these days that the 2nd Amendment is for the National Guards but there was no "National Guard" for over 100 years from the time the Constitution was enacted.

The Supreme Court ruled in "Heller" that the 2nd Amendment is an individual right.

The 2nd Amendment applies in no way the the "National Guard" which is, in fact, a branch of the organized military. ;)

"When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall, one by one." Edmund Burke

BTP Holdings  posted on  2013-07-16   17:47:13 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#27. To: noone222, GreyLmist (#5)

there is no evidence that the gargantuan machination we call the UNITED STATES (a commercial entity) has any intention of forfeiting its commercial stranglehold on its "customers" that have VOLUNTARILY entered the commercial arena via convenience agreements based upon debt based commercial paper.

This is true. We ALL participate in Commerce by the use of their Federal Reserve Notes to purchase "items" at the "grocery store" or the "mall" or the "gas station". ;)

"When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall, one by one." Edmund Burke

BTP Holdings  posted on  2013-07-16   17:56:52 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#28. To: All (#25)

Americans are being genocidally poverty-stricken and dispossesed of our country. Their malevolent money schemes are designed to ensure that most of us cannot save up enough monetarily to stop their asset takeovers and many can't even sustain their own households anymore. We need a money system of our own and fast.

Fixing the Money System - 2.5 minutes

Uploaded on Nov 10, 2008 by AdaptAdoptAndImprove

The US dollar is backed by nothing, and its value is rapidly spiralling out of control, taking the markets with it.

Many people are talking about the problem with fiat (unbacked) currency, but few people discuss solutions.

Here is a simple workable solution. (This is an excerpt from the movie Fiat Empire. The speaker is Edwin Vieira Jr., author of a 1700 page book on currency and the constitution.)

I'm not as certain as Dr. Vieira was at the time of his closing statement in that 2008 video on the availability of gold and silver as competing currencies for us to diminish the fiat paper farce. I think another currency system should also be implemented here that is based on our time and efforts invested to improve economic and societal conditions. That can be arranged in addition to whatever we are able to do to put gold and silver back into action as much as possible instead of Federal Reserve junk. This link for a 4-minute 2010 video about the "Don't Tread on Me" film is set to start at 2:37 for an example of how we could maybe put Federal taxes into an escrow account when D.C. is acting Unconstitutionally, which could serve as well to counter the preferential status of Federal Reserve notes in governmental transactions. I think it's a good idea even though it hasn't been enacted yet at the State level, afaik. If they won't do it, we the citizenry could consider diverting those payments to an escrow account established by us:

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"They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC

GreyLmist  posted on  2013-07-17   0:30:14 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#29. To: BTP Holdings (#26)

The Supreme Court ruled in "Heller" that the 2nd Amendment is an individual right.

The 2nd Amendment applies in no way the the "National Guard" which is, in fact, a branch of the organized military. ;)

Right. :) They are like a Joint Task Force of the Federal Military when needed in that capacity but they are not really supposed to be used outside of our nation for foreign wars. They are also part of their State Militias as well but are comprised of a number of volunteers from those ranks who agree to serve like First Responders from their State Militias if called to Federal duty. The rest of the State Militias are to continue protecting their States unless more are requested for reinforcement and support due to some condition of emergency.

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"They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC

GreyLmist  posted on  2013-07-17   1:21:43 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#30. To: BTP Holdings (#27)

We ALL participate in Commerce by the use of their Federal Reserve Notes to purchase "items" at the "grocery store" or the "mall" or the "gas station". ;)

I could trade some FRNs at a bank for rolls of gold coins but whether or not any businesses will accept those coins instead of FRNs and "standard issue" coinage of lesser precious metal content is not something that is simply a participation choice that's optional for me. If they choose to demand the usual tokens of exchange because they're worried about getting robbed by thugs or intimidated by financiers if they take in gold coins, I might run out of gas or not be able to buy food. A few of us trying to use those coins if we can won't make much difference in the magnitude of our national dilemma financially. We need an alternative currency system on a major scale ASAP -- preferably protected by our State Militias.

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"They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC

GreyLmist  posted on  2013-07-17   2:15:34 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#31. To: All (#25) (Edited)

was watching a video yesterday about our nation's money problems and others -- much of our impoverishment due to the inflationary "Quantitative Easing" fiascos of bailouts and banker bonuses and such. I set that link to 18:35 for a segment of the video (until 20:23) where G. Edward Griffin talks about America exporting its inflation to import foreign products here. That, of course, is further damaging to our manufacturing and production which was already drastically reduced long ago. He didn't exactly say that Federal Reserve notes were being mass produced like trinkets for exporters but that's the impression I got. Then he described how the foreign countries flood our markets with that near worthless FRN junk by importing it back here to get rid of it. I was trying to think of what American markets they would even be interested much in purchasing from, since our manufacturing and production is so scarce: Weaponry, some farm and food products, some vehicles, so-called "entertainment industry" items that are mostly trash. And then it occurred to me that buying exports from us was probably not their objective so much as is buying up our properties, businesses and infrastructures.

HAARP Has Not Shutdown, Only Bought By The Highest Bidder Group — TheWeatherSpace.com | July 16

The Alaskan HAARP Facility Website has been down for quite sometime, having many ask the question on what is going on with it. An announcement was made that the resources to fund the project have been spent and the project has shutdown. But that isn’t the case.

As it stated in their official release, the facility is being bought by the highest bidder. HaarpStatus updates at TheWeatherSpace.com are continuing so either the facility is still on, run by another group of scientists, or other facilities with the same technology are continuing to affect the atmosphere. There are many facilities like HAARP across the world, with smaller ones said to be in the United States as well.

If the report is accurate, who could even afford to buy that? Bankers... Wall Street moguls... Russia... China... Saudi Arabia... Israel? Not me and doubtful there was even any option for Americans of American citizenship only to pool their money together to buy it so that it would stay an American facility. As with other infrastructural things here being privatized for foreigners, our tax money was probably used to build it.

Edited for spelling.

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"They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC

GreyLmist  posted on  2013-07-17   18:28:51 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#32. To: GreyLmist (#30)

A few of us trying to use those coins if we can won't make much difference in the magnitude of our national dilemma financially. We need an alternative currency system on a major scale ASAP -- preferably protected by our State Militias.

They ran the Liberty Dollar out of business long ago. That was the only major alternative currency aroung that was backed by silver and gold.

There is currently "Bitcoin", which I am not terribly familar with. But it seems to be an electronic currency that you can use online or in other ways. As far as I know, it has no backing by precious metals. ;)

"When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall, one by one." Edmund Burke

BTP Holdings  posted on  2013-07-18   16:40:15 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#33. To: GreyLmist (#31)

who could even afford to buy that?

The entire global monetary system is based on debt. That is what a Federal Reserve Note is. And, all other currencies are based on debt, as well. ;)

"When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall, one by one." Edmund Burke

BTP Holdings  posted on  2013-07-18   17:19:58 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#34. To: noone222 (#11)

What has happened is that we the people have unwittingly entered the bank's private area of authority by agreement through usage of their INTERNAL currency and credit system. At the same time, Washington D.C. has been incorporated under the title United States (FEDERAL GOVT not national govt) and is obligated to honor the FEDERAL RESERVE.

The entire monetary system is a fraud, including the Federal Reserve itself.

When we accept those FRNs for the work we perform, we are engaged in commerce. The same holds true when you use those Notes to purchase "items" at the grocery store, mall, or gas station.

When you use a credit card or debit card, the same holds true. ;)

"When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall, one by one." Edmund Burke

BTP Holdings  posted on  2013-07-18   17:24:41 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#35. To: GreyLmist (#28)

That is the best clip I've seen from Dr. Vieira, most of them lately, eeh not so much. It is surely an understatement that with competition over time FRN would lose to anything, including tulips. They are not just debt instruments, they are instruments of theft codified as "Legal Tender" by fiat.

I see you as very sharp, rational, a person who knows this and doesn't believe they can be easily tricked or fooled with your skills at research. Not able to fall for every conspiracy theory that comes along.

Contrary to what the lamestream media tells us I believe the "Greatest Generation" may have been born in the 1700's. They fought for state government and rights presided over by the individual, provided for a common currency that could not be permanently corrupted, a limited and balanced national government, and this country was built based on common law courts.

The leap from their intent to what we suffer today is not something they would recognize our have expected us to allow, although the evidence is there that they did expect attempts to be made.

It is hard for a smart, rational, careful person to grasp what has been done to us without jumping into the rabbit hole and looking at all these attacks on our freedom and the Constitution as a malevolent conspiracy.

States rights and common law courts disappeared in the 1860's

The third Rothschild central bank in this country was installed in secret in 1913, along with the IRS.

As a result gold was taken from us as legal tender in 1933, silver in 1964. Since 1972 the fed has went into overdrive sucking the life out of this country.

We have many problems to deal with, that only an optimist would think will ever be resolved.

Today's mantra is "Move on", "Moving forward" it is repugnant to accept what has been done to us and posterity without placing or accepting responsibility for the grievous acts that got us HERE.

If you do jump in, all research will take you to kooks and nuts, by definition.

“Anti-semitism is a disease–you catch it from Jews”–Edgar J. Steele

“The jew cries out in pain, as he strikes you.”–Polish proverb

“I would like to express my heartfelt apologies for the unfortunate and tasteless quotes I published in my tag lines. I am very sorry and ashamed. I never wanted to offend anyone, or to encroach human rights."- Hmmmmm

Hmmmmm  posted on  2013-07-18   22:31:00 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#36. To: BTP Holdings (#32) (Edited)

I recently read a portion of a FEDERAL court ruling that stated those holding Liberty Dollar certificates had not broken the law and their metals were to be returned. (IIRC).

The information came from Von Nothaus himself ... he has a blog of some sort and someone e-mailed me the info.

Strange times are these in which we live when old and young are taught in falsehood’s school. And the one man who dares to tell the truth is called at once a lunatic and fool.

– Plato (429-347 BC)

noone222  posted on  2013-07-19   8:15:05 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#37. To: BTP Holdings (#32)

www.libertydollarnews.org...dinger_dismisal_order.pdf

2. Impressive Court Order in North Carolina

On February 25, 2013, District Judge Martin Reidinger, who is in the same federal district where BVNH was convicted, issued a 96 page Order regarding the government's attempt to forfeit the seized property of 26 Petitioners. Not only did the DOJ lose this case and did not appeal it, but Judge Reidinger denounced the government for its actions stating: 1) "In its arguments, the Government has completely lost sight of the purpose of this proceeding and the purpose of the forfeiture statute. 2) "The Government seeks to deprive them [the Petitioners] of their hard-earned retirement funds and assets based on absurd contortions of the forfeiture statute." 3) "This is the sort of behavior that diminishes the public trust in government, as well as the justice system in general."

This is a must read if your Liberty Dollar property was wrongfully seized. There is no doubt that everyone who is holding paper or digital warehouse receipts will eventually recover their long sought property.

Strange times are these in which we live when old and young are taught in falsehood’s school. And the one man who dares to tell the truth is called at once a lunatic and fool.

– Plato (429-347 BC)

noone222  posted on  2013-07-19   13:21:09 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#38. To: BTP Holdings, noone222, Hmmmmm, 4 (#32) (Edited)

Me: We need an alternative currency system on a major scale ASAP -- preferably protected by our State Militias.

BTP Holdings: There is currently "Bitcoin", which I am not terribly familar with. But it seems to be an electronic currency that you can use online or in other ways. As far as I know, it has no backing by precious metals. ;)

I've posted this 3 minute video a couple of times recently [here and here] but this time I'm going to title it: Dr. Edwin Vieira's Bitcoin-like Treasury option - 08.01.09 and set the link to start at 1:33. At that point, he talks about how we could transact online with gold and silver; in precise measurements to make change as needed. Probably not many of us would have gold and silver in the early stages to transact with that way but I think that situation would improve soon as it started making its way through our participatory economy.

I would suggest for our usage as sound money that the valuation of our precious metal inventories be set by a stable standard of weights and measures, not market fluctuations. Congress could do that for us if they weren't scoundrels but likely won't. Am not sure but the States might not be able to involve themselves in the weights and measures process of helping to make Dr. Vieira's Bitcoin-like idea workable, since they are prohibited by the Constitution from coining money and emitting bills of credit too. We the People could set the weight and measure values ourselves by agreement.

Am of the opinion that market based gold and silver should be considered like foreign currency that requires an exchange fee and somewhat higher amounts to be imported for conversion to our system, which could provide more purchasing power to the converter by moving it into our better stabilized economy. Also, less risk to them of possibly losing more value than the importation-tranferrence costs if the market prices of their gold and silver holdings drop on Wall Street and elsewhere. Militia trustees and technicians could perhaps serve on rotational duty as our Treasury workers and security guards to help protect the system for us, supervised by their officers that would give reports to the rest of us to verify. The same principle for other currency options that we might decide to use ethically rather than the Fed Res debt instruments.

Edited for quote clarification.

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"They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC

GreyLmist  posted on  2013-07-19   20:18:34 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#39. To: Hmmmmm (#35) (Edited)

Thank you for your kind words and interesting post but I actually do tend to think that much of what's thought to be world history is conspiratorial with deliberate malevolence and hoaxes rather than happenstance -- to herd the masses for the war and power plans of elitists. My views on those topics are sometimes outside the range of the alt-media orthodoxy, as well as officialdom's recitations.

I think big media doesn't want to refer to our Founding Generation as the Greatest for a number of Communistic
reasons -- one being that they and their cohorts want Americans to think and act Globally, not Free and Independently. We certainly do have many problems to deal with. Studying what's been happening to America and the world since the time of Lincoln and Marx makes it difficult to look forward and move ahead with much optimism. The MSM markets optimism for warmongers and oppressors and Leftists. The alt-media has the best articles, imo, for assessing and addressing the issues of the times, past and present, but optimism seems scarce there. I find it helpful to read things occasionally that are not so glum and to think about how the Founders' perspectives could help resolve problems peacefully. Also, these two sentences in your opening paragraph were very good, optimistically and summarily:

It is surely an understatement that with competition over time FRN would lose to anything, including tulips. They are not just debt instruments, they are instruments of theft codified as "Legal Tender" by fiat.

Edited for spacing.

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"They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC

GreyLmist  posted on  2013-07-20   3:59:11 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#40. To: noone222, GreyLmist, BTP Holdings (#5)

I agree with parts of what you all have said and disagree with a little.

I am generally more optimistic in the long run. What I would like to see emerge from the wreckage that will be the only remnant that the monsters in The City of London really created is a more open architecture economically. A system which is neither Corporatism (which is what we have now) or Socialism (A failed idea based upon stealing from the productive to give to the unproductive). Basically enterprises owned by the people who work there. I call it "People's Capitalism". The model has emerged in a few places, but where the elite's can they have stomped it out of existence. For example a small steel mill near where I used to live was being shut down by the large corporation that owned it saying that it was not profitable enough. Unfortunately for the people in the area it was the only major employer in the area, and the workers did not want to be thrown out on their asses when the mill closed.

The response was that the workers, and local managers, got together, mortgaged everything they owned (basically) and bought the facility. Two years later the now verrry profitable operation had earned enough to where the workers were able to pay off the debt they had taken on when they bought the company. The business flourished because they had more incentive - it was THEIR business. Theft virtually ceased, and everyone worked even harder because it was THEIR business. They ended up making more money than when the business had been corporate owned and they all smiled happily on their way to the bank.

Unfortunately the elites must have noticed as when a major airline (United I believe) was going bankrupt a few years later the workers tried to buy the company, but NONE of the major banks would loan them one thin dime.

Moral of the story - we are more powerful than the criminals are and they know it, and fear US.

Perseverent Gardener
"“Believe nothing merely because you have been told it. Do not believe what your teacher tells you merely out of respect for the teacher. But whatsoever, after due examination and analysis, you find to be kind, conducive to the good, the benefit, the welfare of all beings - that doctrine believe and cling to, and take it as your guide.” ~ Gautama Siddhartha — The Buddha

Original_Intent  posted on  2013-07-20   4:56:27 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  



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