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Title: An Open Letter to the Parents of Trayvon Martin
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Published: Aug 6, 2013
Author: Glenda Wells
Post Date: 2013-08-06 00:10:23 by James Deffenbach
Keywords: None
Views: 3753
Comments: 237
Ms Fulton, Mr Martin I mourn your loss more than I can possibly say but let's be clear. Your son had as much opportunity to walk away as Mr Zimmerman did but chose instead to be aggressive himself. Just as a reminder, Mr Zimmerman did not use Stand Your Ground as a defense. The facts are indisputable that your son was on top and pounding Mr Zimmerman. Your son was not stalked. Mr Zimmerman was judged in a court of law to be not guilty therefore no punishment is warranted. Your son was depicted by the media as a young boy and portrayed as an innocent but let's be honest. We know that was not a true picture. Instead we learned you're son was a drug dealer and petty thief. Where were you when he should have been learning respect? Where were you when he needed the kind of guidance that would make him a good and decent man? Your efforts now seem like the desperate reach of parents trying to make up for in death what they failed in life. To think otherwise would paint you as a crass and heartless people looking for personal gain on the grave of a soul lost too soon. I am the Florida state coordinator for Gun Rights Across America. I represent more than 2,000 law abiding citizens who believe in our God-given right to defend ourselves, our families and our property against the kind of aggression displayed by your son that awful night and by countless thugs and criminals across the nation every day. GRAA has the support of thousands of members in every state and we have the backing of millions more in hundreds of Patriot and Constitutional groups around the country. We will fight any effort designed to give thugs and criminals power over law abiding citizens. We have no duty to retreat. We will not run and hide. We are many. We are mighty. And we vote. Respectfully and with heartfelt sadness. Glenda Wells
Gun Rights Across America, Florida State Coordinator
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#198. To: GreyLmist (#196)
HANNITY: And were you able to get to the grass? ZIMMERMAN: Yes, sir. Wrong. The ongoing assault, coupled with an attempt by TM to snatch Zs gun, made DPF necessary in the eyes of the jury. Nothing you have mentioned, or continue to mention, was relevant in the mind of the jury. As much as that bothers you, and the radical, racial left, it's over and the good guys won. Deal with it.
[Zimmeran's Reenactment video] 10:30 - 11:30 Rephrasing for clarity: "The evidence from Zimmerman himself is that he had moved to the grass before the time of the shooting and so wasn't having his head banged into the cement" thereafter, if that had really even happened. Reference cbsnews.com. The Good guy "testified that he didn't see the person on top smashing the other person's head into the sidewalk, as Zimmerman claims Martin did before he fatally shot the teen." ... and "that he couldn't confirm the person on top was hitting the other person." The video timestamping should extend to 12:20. That is when he says he had squirmed off the cement and the self defense issue moved with him at the point -- from the realm of potentially deadly physical force that he claims was inflicted against him but no headbanging (intentional or accidental) was witnessed versus lethal gunfire being called "necessary force" to terminate a person's life in a fight that had shifted to the grass. At #105, you spoke of necessary force as equal force but, in courtroom-jargon, the sidewalk headbanger charge against Martin doesn't have "standing" for a fight continuance on the lawn. The assumption seems to be that it was Trayvon's intent for Zimmerman to be positioned with his head over the cement, rather than Z just landing that way, then getting slammed around haphazardly and unthinkingly by him in the heat of the fight. Z implied that his head was purposely being banged there but he was able to move out of danger of that area to the yard and he didn't claim that T was trying to prevent him from scooting away from the pavement. He asserted that T was trying by that time to muffle his yelling, not bang his head. Most likely, T wouldn't have been able to do both at the same time. Reference the Reenactment video link at 11:14-12:16. If you back up in that video to 8:56-9:34, then all his conflicting statements there and elsewhere about what he was doing on his supposed mission to Retreat View Circle by the longest route there and where he was to meet the police come into question. Back up further to 6:59 where he talks about T coming back from behind the building and circling his car -- not menacingly to start a fight or even speak audibly to him that would indicate his intent was other than to probably get the model and license number of his vehicle to report Z as a possible stalker. Then, inexplicably, Z claims that he couldn't remember the name of the street and got out of his car to allegedly go in search of an address for a street farther away from his location that he didn't give the dispatcher anyway. More probably he got out of his vehicle instead of waiting there for the police or at the clubhouse so as to prevent T from making a suspicious person report about him, if he could, as he had done about T. What's clear from his own statements in the course of the call with the dispatcher is that he had been following Trayvon. I'm not sure what Zimmerman's acquital symbolizes for those still rallying around him but it looks like a miscarriage of Justice, imo. By not waiting at his vehicle for the police, he's caused heaps of aggravations over the 2nd Amendment, self defense issues, and even for Neighborhood Watch groups and Homeowners Associations. On top of all that, the Stand Your Ground law is being targeted when it didn't even figure in his defense on account of Standing Your Ground in Pursuit of Someone isn't rightly what it's meant to be about. That's all on top of the racial agitation he's foisted on America. Cui Bono? ------- "They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
Whoa there, are you telling us that the Zimmerman jury got the verdict wrong?? If yes, IYO, what should the verdict have been, what charge (s) do you consider appropriate, and what specific evidence supports your contention.
I believe they put too much stock in Zimmerman's credibility and got the verdict wrong, yes. They might have decided as they did because they didn't have full access to his problematic statements for intensive study as others not on the jury have had. Zimmerman's statements are so inconsistent and bizarre, too, that I suspect he might have been on a Vigilante-like hunting expedition that night -- looking to make trouble with malice aforethought when there otherwise wouldn't have been any. If this really happened, Murder in the 2nd Degree might have been an undercharge. At the very least, as I've noted before, Z exhibited reckless disregard, imo, for the life of someone who had used no weaponry against him when he did nothing to try and help or get help for Trayvon and also moved to prevent a call to the police for emergency help. I don't know what the degrees of Manslaughter stipulate on that, if anything, but I do not believe he had to shoot someone to death over a fight ongoing in the grass, nor would I accept his dubious word that he had to preemptively kill Martin to stop him from getting to his gun. He claimed in his statements that he thought Martin had been hitting him with something in his hands but at no point did he claim to have even tried to use his cellphone or keys as objects to strike back at him with more equal force to try and get away. He implausibly claims that he didn't hit at Martin at all in a supposedly lifethreating struggle and only tried to move his hands away. I think he could have fired a warning shot to try and stop the fight, if he wanted to, or aimed somewhere less lethal more easily. Instead, he risked the gun being grabbed or knocked out of his hand as he maneuvered it upward by his opponent's arm to shoot him in the chest. I think that shows his intent was to end the fight with more force than was necessary by killing him. If Zimmerman had so much as bought Trayvon a beer, he could have been charged with contributing to the underage drinking delinquency of a minor. I'm not sure what the appropriate charge against him for this should have been but his headbanging self defense plea fell on the wet grass, sort of like Trayvon's headset was said to have done. His preemptive strike scenario, alleged as if necessary force to keep Trayvon from getting his gun, would have been unnecessary in my view, is unsubstantiated, his word is slithery and his spin on that sounds Neocon-esque Creepy to me. Ironically, Officer Smith testified at 43:22-45:00 that Z (who neglected to help or get help and obstructed help for Trayvon) commented twice as if he was bewildered that no one had come out to help him while he was yelling. But somebody with a flashlight did come out to help, even though they didn't get there fast enough to do much, so that's just one more example (like claiming to have forgotten the name of the street he was on when there are only 3 streets in the complex) which indicates he has like memory flash-problems, maybe due to his prescribed controlled substance medications. Edited for spelling + last sentence. ------- "They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
Your defense of TM has taken your twisted conspiratorial mind set to a new low. Anyone, by law, can follow another anywhere they want to. If the person being followed feels ill at ease, and has a phone as TM did, a call to 911 would have be the correct response. Zimmerman, regardless of how he came to be on his back getting his head knocked into concrete, had a right to defend himself, as he feared for his life. Try as they did, the State of Florida had absolutely no evidence to contradict this basic fact. This was as simple a case of self- defense, save for the insertion of Obama and the predictable Marxist race hucksters. I can only hope that one day you, or someone you love, is confronted by TM-like thug. A nasty thought indeed, but it is your ilk that releases these predators from their cages.
Have you ever been in an altercation, GreyLmist or handled a firearm?
Know guns, know safety, know liberty. No guns, no safety, no liberty.
Cases are weighed on evidence presented. Every "problematic statement" you trip over was in evidence and found not to be problematic, but instead irrelevant.
Seriously? He requested that the police respond to the development *before* the shooting. Furthermore, the police responded 2 minutes (See Officer Timothy Smith) after the shooting as a result of a multiple calls by neighbors. Z was made aware of one such 911 call immediately after the shooting by a neighbor. Show this forum how Z "moved to prevent a call to the police for emergency help."
His intent wasn't to kill but to instead to stop the assault. Please tell us exactly how many MMA style blows (see John Good) to the head are needed to cause unconsciousness or grave serious injury? The answer is it could be as little as one. Since he had already sustained many, his use of DPF was justified as per the jury.
How very childish and silly. Spoken like a person who is terribly naïve regarding street thugs and their violent behavior. How does one do this when pinned to the ground? Aren't these the very kinds of situations that brings one to become a gun owner? As far as you suggesting that Z should have fired a warning shot, or shot TMs big toe, rather than shoot center mass, the idea is to stop a felonious assault in the fastest possible way. He fired into TM the way anyone with experience in these matters would have done.
That's ironic? He came out after the shot and he's also the neighbor who said he called 911 and the police were responding. Again, it took 2 minutes for the police to respond after the shot was fired. This obstruction nonsense you keep babbling about is the product of an overactive imagination.
Z straddled TM after he has shot him. TM lived app. 15 seconds after being shot. Nothing contradictory here except to those steeped in Masonic conspiracy.
HANNITY: And were you able to get to the grass? ZIMMERMAN: Yes, sir. And the difference it made so long as Saint Skittles was STILL on top of Zimmerman and beating him? You do understand that people have been killed just by punches, don't you? Paul Craig Roberts
WTH? You believe Saint Skittles was on top of Zimmerman but may NOT have been hitting him? What do you think Saint Skittles was doing and why was he on top of Zimmerman, was he trying to have sex with him or something? Paul Craig Roberts
Apparently Grey thinks had Z landed a well placed shot to TM with his keys, he would have run like a scared rabbit.
LOL! I believe most of us know that $#it like that only happens in movies where no one is actually trying to hurt anyone. Paul Craig Roberts
I don't know where Saint Skittles supporters come up with the $#it they claim to believe. Like how deadly force wasn't necessary in that case. But from the available evidence it sure seemed to me that any reasonable person would have concluded that their life was in danger when someone was pounding their head into concrete and showed no intention of letting up on the beating until they were either seriously injured or killed. The only thing I think Zimmerman did wrong was to get out of his truck but even that was certainly not against the law. Following Saint Skittles wasn't against the law either. Just think, if it was against the law to follow people there would not be enough jails in the world just to jail all the lawbreakers in places like NYC, Los Angeles, Chicago, Rio or Sao Paulo. At any given time untold millions of people are "following" whoever is in front of them so of course it is ridiculous to think that following someone is "against the law."
Paul Craig Roberts
Yes and yes. ------- "They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
How on earth do you fire a warning shot at someone that you're grappling with? In such a situation you're with a hair of being disarmed by an extremely agitated adversary. This is a dangerous spot to be in and you can't screw around. By the way, this situation indicates that TM had the drop on GZ. Had it been the other way around GZ would have unholstered first, no? It just plain buggers the imagination that GZ would hunt a guy down and attack him bare hands first when he had a pistol in his belt putting himself in a precarious situation with what is plainly a superior opponent. Know guns, know safety, know liberty. No guns, no safety, no liberty.
Their 'facts' are pulled out of thin air and despite being knocked down with sworn testimony, they continue with what is a very peculiar agenda.
You, like many on both sides of this issue, are much too emotionally attached to this case to be able to discuss the evidence objectively and fairly. ------- "They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
You discuss evidence? You've personally made this thread a dumpster fire of disinformation, and when you're called on it, rather than concede a point, you simply flitter off into some delusional world where sworn testimony is trumped by your fiction. I'll say this as nicely as I can; you're clueless and in need of help.
The same way you'd fire into their body but in a different direction -- with less difficulty in aiming and less chance of being disarmed in the process. How on earth was GZ even able to get to his gun if TM was straddling him then as he says? Where was TM's leg at the time on that side? GZ's story about his jacket moving up doesn't adequately explain that away. Right and hence my noting that there were better options, imo, than moving the gun upwards by his opponent's arm, which was a dangerously risky maneuver. I don't think GZ hunted him down and attacked him bare hands first -- or not fisticuffs-style, anyway. More likely than that, since there's scant evidence of a struggle on the hands of either one of them, would be GZ rendering TM unconcious somehow where he stood as he spoke to him and all the one-sided hollering heard with TM allegedly witnessed pinning him down and pummeling him during a supposed fracas a staged show as a cover-story for Z, with the point-blank gunfire the "grand finale". Just a thought as a possibility that probably does sound wildly imaginative to most people -- except that he talked about his Army service in Virginia early on in his CVSA interview, so I'm not someone under the impression that he wouldn't know how to disable TM quickly. Edited for spelling. ------- "They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
I don't know what you're talking about as disinfo but don't give a hoot. Please don't bother yourself to ever speak to me again. I don't need to be reminded that your only problem with this case is anyone who has any problems with the evidence and verdict. There's lots of things about the evidence I'd like to discuss that should be discussed but not with you.
------- "They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
Lemme see, GZ knocked TM out. The latter then staged a fracas where he pummeled on Z who hollered . . . I am all mixed up at this point. The cuckoo has struck. I am out of here. Jethro, this is all yours. Know guns, know safety, know liberty. No guns, no safety, no liberty.
I'm with you randge, her KooK has made this place a raging tire fire.
That was slick entrapment. Silly me, I didn't realize that it was ok for you to speculate about the situation, as if it indicates that TM had the drop on GZ (no witness no matter)... and also in terms of something I had never said about GZ attacking him bare hands first... but if I venture to speculate, too, about your bare hands first comment as to a possiblity that would sound more plausible to me than GZ attacking him first fisticuffs-style (considering his Army service and the scant evidence on their hands of a struggle) then I'm the one who's being irrational and contemptible. Funny how that works but lesson learned about such missteps, as if this is something that can be discussed casually in polite conversation with the Z fans. For anyone actually concerned with the evidence, these are the relevant issues of my post that should be of higher priority than personal disdain about me: Edited for grammar, spacing, punctuation. ------- "They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
HANNITY: And were you able to get to the grass? ZIMMERMAN: Yes, sir. And the difference it made so long as Saint Skittles was STILL on top of Zimmerman and beating him? You do understand that people have been killed just by punches, don't you? Yes, I do understand that people have been killed just by punches. Even so, I wouldn't consider it a good thing if the depopulation agendists are scampering as we speak to "fix" any threat of that for us by assisting with legally lowering the bar of necessary force in self defense to automatically shooting each other to death if anyone ever hits us anywhere that we happen to be. Edited for grammar. ------- "They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
If you had any idea at all how insane that sounds you wouldn't have posted it. At least I don't think you would have. How did Zimmerman render Saint Skittles unconscious, a Vulcan Death Grip? LOL! This could be quite entertaining I suppose but I have met my quota for entertainment and will now leave you to the tender mercies of Jethro Tull--he seems willing to go on trying to show you the error of your ways but I am about convinced at this point that you don't want to know. Paul Craig Roberts
No thanks JD. I've been asked by the Queen of Odd not to communicate with her so her wish is my command. I only wish she had detailed her psychotic theory earlier on in this thread. I was under the mistaken impression she actually was debating in good faith.
I know how your heart must be hurting over that. But you will get over it in the fullness of time--I suspect it might take as long as three seconds. Paul Craig Roberts
Wow. Ain't that sumthin'? Thanks, randgey. Can't say as I couldn't have made it this far without ya eventually -- just maybe not quite as fast. This is fantastic, though! Before our little speculative chat earlier that got wongfully seized upon and then turned into this here ritzy title for me, I could scarcely get a modicum of respect from him on my communications, nor those close to me by extension either. Now this! P.S. to JT: I said "don't bother yourself to ever speak to me again", knave. If it doesn't bother you to do that or you're ok with being bothered by speaking to me or you'd just prefer not to, that's different, of course. Edited last sentence. ------- "They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
Let's all take a pill on this, GreyLmist. All parties have said everything they want to say on this topic, and there's not likely to be much further consensus on points of disagreement. At this juncture there's always gonna be more smoke than light in the discussion. It's been entertaining though. Cheers. Know guns, know safety, know liberty. No guns, no safety, no liberty.
How to Use Car Keys for Self Defense - eHow Edit to add another good option from the site, if available: ------- "They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
Stick the key in his ear and turn it like you would in the ignition. Then grab him by the testicles (this should cause significant pain), lift your eyebrows, open your eyes super wide and whisper to him really creepy like... "Who's the bad guy now, huh?" There are some issues I think should be noted for the record, consensus or not. The car keys topic was one that I thought could perhaps be helpful to others. Cheers to you too, randge. :)
------- "They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
Good idea. I hadn't thought of that. Thanks for the tip, wud. :) ------- "They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
2. Re: AFTERBURNER w/ BILL WHITTLE: The Lynching - YouTube #92: Various comments on the Lean issue and case Edited to add section 3 of the 5 and 1st line of last section. ------- "They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
This is the relevant part to the issue of necessary force to terminate the fight or not:
#199. To: Jethro Tull (#194)
Me: The evidence from Zimmerman himself is that he had moved to the grass before the time of the shooting and so wasn't having his head banged into the cement
#200. To: GreyLmist (#199)
I'm not sure what Zimmerman's acquital symbolizes for those still rallying around him
#201. To: Jethro Tull (#200)
(Edited)
Whoa there, are you telling us that the Zimmerman jury got the verdict wrong??
If yes, IYO, what should the verdict have been, what charge (s) do you consider appropriate, and what specific evidence supports your contention.
#202. To: GreyLmist says Zimmerman is Guilty (#201)
#203. To: GreyLmist (#201)
#204. To: GreyLmist (#201)
I believe they put too much stock in Zimmerman's credibility and got the verdict wrong, yes. They might have decided as they did because they didn't have full access to his problematic statements for intensive study as others not on the jury have had.
#205. To: GreyLmist (#201)
At the very least, as I've noted before, Z exhibited reckless disregard, imo, for the life of someone who had used no weaponry against him when he did nothing to try and help or get help for Trayvon and also moved to prevent a call to the police for emergency help
#206. To: GreyLmist (#201)
I don't know what the degrees of Manslaughter stipulate on that, if anything, but I do not believe he had to shoot someone to death over a fight ongoing in the grass, nor would I accept his dubious word that he had to preemptively kill Martin to stop him from getting to his gun.
#207. To: GreyLmist (#201)
He claimed in his statements that he thought Martin had been hitting him with something in his hands but at no point did he claim to have even tried to use his cellphone or keys as objects to strike back at him with more equal force to try and get away. He implausibly claims that he didn't hit at Martin at all in a supposedly lifethreating struggle and only tried to move his hands away.
#208. To: GreyLmist (#201)
Ironically, Officer Smith testified at 43:22-45:00 that Z (who neglected to help or get help and obstructed help for Trayvon) commented twice as if he was bewildered that no one had come out to help him while he was yelling. But somebody with a flashlight did come out to help, even though they didn't get there fast enough to do much, so that's just one more example
#209. To: GreyLmist (#195)
For one, much emphasis was focused by Z's attorney on whether the back of his pants looked wetter than the front, said to be due to him being on his back on the ground during the fight. Officer Smith repeatedly answered that was his observation. However, that sounds contradictory to Z's claim of straddling Trayvon to allegedly restrain him facedown.
#210. To: GreyLmist (#196)
This is the part relevant to the issue of necessary force to terminate the fight or not:
Americans who have no experience with, or knowledge of, tyranny believe that only terrorists will experience the unchecked power of the state. They will believe this until it happens to them, or their children, or their friends.
#211. To: GreyLmist (#199)
The Good guy "testified that he didn't see the person on top smashing the other person's head into the sidewalk, as Zimmerman claims Martin did before he fatally shot the teen." ... and "that he couldn't confirm the person on top was hitting the other person."
Americans who have no experience with, or knowledge of, tyranny believe that only terrorists will experience the unchecked power of the state. They will believe this until it happens to them, or their children, or their friends.
#212. To: James Deffenbach (#210)
#213. To: Jethro Tull (#212)
Apparently Grey thinks had Z landed a well placed shot to TM with his keys, he would have run like a scared rabbit.
Americans who have no experience with, or knowledge of, tyranny believe that only terrorists will experience the unchecked power of the state. They will believe this until it happens to them, or their children, or their friends.
#214. To: GreyLmist, JD, 4 (#199)
The Good guy "testified that he didn't see the person on top smashing the other person's head into the sidewalk, as Zimmerman claims Martin did before he fatally shot the teen." ... and "that he couldn't confirm the person on top was hitting the other person."
#215. To: Jethro Tull (#214)
Americans who have no experience with, or knowledge of, tyranny believe that only terrorists will experience the unchecked power of the state. They will believe this until it happens to them, or their children, or their friends.
#216. To: randge (#203)
Have you ever been in an altercation, GreyLmist or handled a firearm?
#217. To: GreyLmist (#216)
I think he could have fired a warning shot to try and stop the fight, if he wanted to, or aimed somewhere less lethal more easily. Instead, he risked the gun being grabbed or knocked out of his hand as he maneuvered it upward by his opponent's arm to shoot him in the chest.
#218. To: James Deffenbach (#215)
I don't know where Saint Skittles supporters come up with the $#it they claim to believe
#219. To: Jethro Tull (#202)
I can only hope that one day you, or someone you love, is confronted by TM-like thug. A nasty thought indeed, but it is your ilk that releases these predators from their cages.
#220. To: GreyLmist (#219)
You, like many on both sides of this issue, are much too emotionally attached to this case to be able to discuss the evidence objectively and fairly.
#221. To: randge (#217)
(Edited)
How on earth do you fire a warning shot at someone that you're grappling with?
In such a situation you're with a hair of being disarmed by an extremely agitated adversary. This is a dangerous spot to be in and you can't screw around.
By the way, this situation indicates that TM had the drop on GZ. Had it been the other way around GZ would have unholstered first, no? It just plain buggers the imagination that GZ would hunt a guy down and attack him bare hands first when he had a pistol in his belt putting himself in a precarious situation with what is plainly a superior opponent.
#222. To: GreyLmist (#221)
More likely than that, since there's scant evidence of a struggle on the hands of either one of them, would be GZ rendering TM unconcious somehow where he stood as he spoke to him and all the one-sided hollering heard with TM allegedly witnessed pinning him down and pummeling him during a supposed fracas a staged show as a cover-story for Z, with the point-blank gunfire the "grand finale".
#223. To: Jethro Tull (#220)
#224. To: GreyLmist, Jethro Tull (#221)
(Edited)
#225. To: randge (#224)
#226. To: randge (#224)
(Edited)
How on earth was GZ even able to get to his gun if TM was straddling him then as he says? Where was TM's leg at the time on that side? GZ's story about his jacket moving up doesn't adequately explain that away.
#227. To: James Deffenbach (#210)
(Edited)
This is the part relevant to the issue of necessary force to terminate the fight or not:
#228. To: GreyLmist, Jethro Tull (#221)
More likely than that, since there's scant evidence of a struggle on the hands of either one of them, would be GZ rendering TM unconcious somehow where he stood as he spoke to him and all the one-sided hollering heard with TM allegedly witnessed pinning him down and pummeling him during a supposed fracas a staged show as a cover-story for Z, with the point-blank gunfire the "grand finale".
Americans who have no experience with, or knowledge of, tyranny believe that only terrorists will experience the unchecked power of the state. They will believe this until it happens to them, or their children, or their friends.
#229. To: James Deffenbach (#228)
If you had any idea at all how insane that sounds you wouldn't have posted it. At least I don't think you would have. How did Zimmerman render Saint Skittles unconscious, a Vulcan Death Grip? LOL! This could be quite entertaining I suppose but I have met my quota for entertainment and will now leave you to the tender mercies of Jethro Tull--he seems willing to go on trying to show you the error of your ways but I am about convinced at this point that you don't want to know.
#230. To: Jethro Tull (#229)
I've been asked by the Queen of Odd not to communicate with her...
Americans who have no experience with, or knowledge of, tyranny believe that only terrorists will experience the unchecked power of the state. They will believe this until it happens to them, or their children, or their friends.
#231. To: Jethro Tull, randge (#229)
(Edited)
I've been asked by the Queen of Odd not to communicate with her so her wish is my command.
#232. To: GreyLmist (#231)
#233. To: All (#201)
(Edited)
at no point did [Zimmerman] claim to have even tried to use his cellphone or keys as objects to strike back at him with more equal force to try and get away.
Punch your assailant in the eyes with your keys if you are being attacked. Use the key as a weapon to do whatever is necessary to escape.
Use the key fob or the head of the key to sound your car alarm if a threatening person approaches you. Again, you have to have your key in your hand in order to be able to do this. In most cases of newer model vehicles, hitting the alarm or panic button will sound an alarm, start the lights flashing to alert help, and attract attention.
#234. To: GreyLmist (#233)
"If they can get you asking the wrong questions, they don't have to worry about answers" ~ Thomas Pynchon Gravity's Rainbow
#235. To: randge (#232)
#236. To: wudidiz (#234)
Stick the key in his ear and turn it like you would in the ignition.
#237. To: All (#235)
(Edited)
some issues I think should be noted for the record, consensus or not.
1. #111: Articles and video on John Good's testimony + controversy and evidence issues Re: Post #221 above in this thread
#90: Addresses the Lean issue + Toxicology
Article news video states at 1:58 that Trayvon was found with his hands under him -- not arms spread out like Zimmerman described.
At 20:50-21:51 of the video, O'Mara asks what the normal hospital transport procedures would be and Livingston explains that a patient could make the decision to go to the hospital or not if they are fully awake and alert. However, this was a situation of arrest and so wasn't routine procedures. Starting at 21:30, she testified that she didn't know how the determination was made but it was determined that if Z was going to receive further medical care, the Police were going to take him. Nothing was said to indicate that decision was ultimately made by Z rather than the EMTs assessment of his condition for clearance back to the charge of the Police. O'Mara asked if it became the responsibility of the Police at that point (to transport him to the hospital if needed) and she answered: Correct.
much emphasis was focused by Z's attorney on whether the back of his pants looked wetter than the front, said to be due to him being on his back on the ground during the fight. Officer Smith repeatedly answered that was his observation. However, that sounds contradictory to Z's claim of straddling Trayvon to allegedly restrain him facedown. If that were so, likely his pants from the knees down would have been as wet or wetter.
According to his statements, Officer Smith drove past Zimmerman's truck instead stopping there as the meeting place arranged in Z's call with the dispatcher. Smith does not state anything about his Police vehicle's flashing lights and siren being on for the emergency. He drove all the way down the street to the other end of the buildings and says he shone a spotlight between them, which Zimmerman didn't mention seeing in his accounts of what happened. Then Officer Smith proceeded to drive all the way down the other side of buildings, got out of his vehicle and walked around the corner of the row that faced Retreat View Circle without his gun drawn, even though the situation had been upgraded with the 911 calls from Suspicious Person to Shots Fired. Smith is unclear about seeing the gun or not. No mention of Miranda Rights when arresting Z. O'Mara spoke about Z's eyes being watered but Z had claimed there was blood on them. Smith says that GZ had no trouble balancing or walking. No blood in the patrol car from injuries. Did not lose conciousness or fall out of the chair at the station.
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