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Science/Tech
See other Science/Tech Articles

Title: 'Hyperloop': L.A. to San Francisco in 30 minutes?
Source: USA Today
URL Source: http://www.usatoday.com/story/tech/ ... f-in-30-mins-if-built/2645667/
Published: Aug 13, 2013
Author: From staff reports
Post Date: 2013-08-13 02:19:46 by scrapper2
Ping List: *California list*     Subscribe to *California list*
Keywords: Hyperloop, 90% less costly than Brown
Views: 264
Comments: 10

Everything old is new again.

Partially borrowing a technology concept used by banks, entrepreneur Elon Musk introduced a design for a new transportation system that he said could shuttle passengers between Los Angeles and San Francisco in 30 minutes.

For now, it's an early, conceptual design at best -- a proposal for an idea that may never be built and likely gone unnoticed had it not been for the attention Musk receives for his other projects, including Tesla Motors and PayPal.

"The Hyperloop (or something similar) is, in my opinion, the right solution for the specific case of high traffic city pairs that are less than about 1500 km or 900 miles apart," he wrote on his blog Monday, following through on his previous hints for the project.

"Around that inflection point, I suspect that supersonic air travel ends up being faster and cheaper. However, for a sub several hundred mile journey, having a supersonic plane is rather pointless, as you would spend almost all your time slowly ascending and descending and very little time at cruise speed."

"The Hyperloop" is a system of people-sized pods that are moved over a network of air-free tubes built over or under the ground – much like the pneumatic tubes seen at drive-up windows at banks. Magnetic attraction would move the pods through the tubes.

To create a low friction suspension system for the pods traveling at over 700 mph, it would rely on a cushion of air.

"Air bearings, which use the same basic principle as an air hockey table, have been demonstrated to work at speeds of Mach 1.1 with very low friction," he wrote. "In this case, however, it is the pod that is producing the air cushion, rather than the tube."

The straight pneumatic approach would be problematic because the friction of a 350-mile long column of air moving at near sonic velocity against the inside of the tube is too "stupendously high."

Another approach -- using hard or near hard vacuum in the tube and then using an electromagnetic suspension -- would be too hard to maintain in a system of tubes with dozens of stations. "All it takes is one leaky seal or a small crack somewhere in the hundreds of miles of tube and the whole system stops working," he wrote.

On a conference call Monday, Musk said the project could take seven to 10 years for the first trial if all conditions are met. The system could cost as much as $6 billion, but he said that would be about one-tenth the projected cost of a high-speed rail system that California has been planning to build.

"I don't think it will provide the alternative that he's looking for," said James E. Moore II, director of the transportation engineering program at the University of Southern California.

Musk said he would publish an open-source design that anyone can use or modify. But if no one volunteers to actively take the lead on the project, he said he would build a prototype.


Poster Comment:

"The system could cost as much as $6 billion, but he said that would be about one-tenth the projected cost of a high-speed rail system that California has been planning to build."

Jerry Brown will be sure to put the kabosh on the hyperloop idea - too inexpensive.

Great drawings of the Hyperloop prototype @ the url.Subscribe to *California list*

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#1. To: scrapper2 (#0)

when I originally heard about the idea of putting high speed rail in CA they were talking about it running between LA and Vegas. that made sense. what they are doing now does not.


A study group recently released its findings as to the best presidents of the United States of America.

Obama has been rated as the 4th best president ever:

Reagan and 9 others tied for first, 15 presidents tied for second, 18 tied for third, and Obama came in fourth.

farmfriend  posted on  2013-08-13   11:25:19 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#2. To: farmfriend (#1)

"when I originally heard about the idea of putting high speed rail in CA they were talking about it running between LA and Vegas. that made sense."

I haven't followed the issue. If Californians overpay for a rail system that takes them to Las Vegas to get fleeced again, how does that make sense?

Big Meanie  posted on  2013-08-13   13:16:24 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#3. To: Big Meanie (#2)

people would use it. the key is to get riders.

it is like the light rail here in Sac. did they make it go to the malls? no. it went down town for the state workers who don't use it.


A study group recently released its findings as to the best presidents of the United States of America.

Obama has been rated as the 4th best president ever:

Reagan and 9 others tied for first, 15 presidents tied for second, 18 tied for third, and Obama came in fourth.

farmfriend  posted on  2013-08-13   14:23:32 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#4. To: farmfriend (#3)

"people would use it. the key is to get riders."

Do you mean the State of California would operate the system for profit?

Big Meanie  posted on  2013-08-13   14:43:24 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#5. To: Big Meanie (#4)

if you are going to build a rail system, build it going where people want to go otherwise you are going to end up with these funding black holes.


A study group recently released its findings as to the best presidents of the United States of America.

Obama has been rated as the 4th best president ever:

Reagan and 9 others tied for first, 15 presidents tied for second, 18 tied for third, and Obama came in fourth.

farmfriend  posted on  2013-08-13   17:12:09 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#6. To: Big Meanie, farmfriend (#4) (Edited)

I heard this topic discussed today.

Apparently the technology has been around for about 40 years ( in small scale business use) so it's not something imagined in one guy's brain over night.

This Elon Musk is an incredibly successful visionary entrepreneur. I think he could make it happen. A modern day da Vinci genius. Also I don't think Musk is corruptible by gov't influences and lobby groups.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elon_Musk

But here's the kicker - the investors would need to get right of way permission to use one lane of I-5 from the state politicians. Since the DemRats already have egg on their faces from the projected cost over runs and the public outcry, I'm thinking Jerry Brown and the DemRats would rather walk over hot coals than give a right of way lane to the 'Hyperloop' investors to build their project @ 1/10 the cost of their bullet train to nowhere.

However an attorney remarked that if CA voters voted a referendum in favor of the Hyperloop, eminent domain could be used by the Hyperloop investors to claim 1 lane of I-5, whether Jerry Brown and the DemRat legislators liked it or not.

Interesting possibility, eh? Hyperlooping to SF in 30 minutes to see an opera. Or San Franciscans looping down to LA to see a Kings hockey game. Fun!

scrapper2  posted on  2013-08-13   23:21:46 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#7. To: scrapper2 (#6)

Hyperlooping to SF in 30 minutes to see an opera. Or San Franciscans looping down to LA to see a Kings hockey game.

But what about the 6 hour TSA probings at each departure? Eeeeeek! Terriers!

Fun!

Goob debacle!

The light that burns twice as bright, burns half as long. - Dr. Eldon Tyrell

Godfrey Smith: Mike, I wouldn't worry. Prosperity is just around the corner.
Mike Flaherty: Yeah, it's been there a long time. I wish I knew which corner.
My Man Godfrey (1936)

Esso  posted on  2013-08-14   6:56:24 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#8. To: scrapper2 (#6)

"Interesting possibility, eh? Hyperlooping to SF in 30 minutes to see an opera."

My mother took me to the opera for my 8th birthday. I vowed never to go back. I used to live in SF. The closest I want to get to that place anymore is Yosemite and Tahoe.

If I was trying to sell high speed transportation between LA and SF for some reason, I'd show it going through the coastal areas rather than through Bakersfield, Los Banos and Coalinga.

Big Meanie  posted on  2013-08-14   14:06:52 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#9. To: Big Meanie (#8)

Reclining, and traveling 700+MPH, wouldn't be so good for sightseeing, imo.

Completely agree re: SF and opera - ugh.

“The most dangerous man to any government is the man who is able to think things out... without regard to the prevailing superstitions and taboos. Almost inevitably he comes to the conclusion that the government he lives under is dishonest, insane, intolerable.” ~ H. L. Mencken

Lod  posted on  2013-08-14   14:13:27 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#10. To: Lod (#9)

"Reclining, and traveling 700+MPH, wouldn't be so good for sightseeing"

Yes, I wondered about that, but at least you could get off in half a dozen places between LA and San Francisco and see something besides rocks, lizards and an Arco Station.

Big Meanie  posted on  2013-08-14   14:24:44 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


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