See other Pious Perverts Articles
Title: Rand Paul on Bradley Manning Verdict: “I don’t have a lot of sympathy”
Source:
ECONOMIC POLICY JOURNAL
URL Source: http://www.economicpolicyjournal.co ... bradley-manning-verdict-i.html
Published: Aug 20, 2013
Author: ROBERT WENZEL
Post Date: 2013-08-20 09:48:40 by Artisan
Ping List: *RAND PAUL* Subscribe to *RAND PAUL*
Keywords: None
Views: 2098
Comments: 92
There's terrible news out about Rand Paul and comments he has made about Bradley Manning and Edward Snowden. At a Cato University event, Rand stated that there need to be some laws that protect certain secrets and that Manning put many lives at risk by releasing millions of pages “willy-nilly,” reports DL Magazine. “There do have to be laws to protect some secrets. I think if you’ve got the, you know, the plans on how to make a nuclear bomb that is a state secret. If you give that to the enemy, that is being treasonous,” said Rand, “Even if you reveal it, you just have to have laws against that. What Manning did was just willy-nilly, just released millions of pages of things and I think some people have said there is potentially some harm from that. You know individual agents that could have been killed or put at risk from this. So there is a problem with that. So I just can’t support that.” “If you are doing something for a political purpose; you know, in fact, in some ways the Snowden case is a little bit different,” said Paul, “But even with the Snowden case, I still think you have to have laws against what he did. So he did break the law.” His continued his comments about Snowden in an even more muddled fashion, attempting to hide is views by saying what others might do and not showing any strong support for Snowden “Snowden, if he were here, could maybe make the defense ‘Well I released this information because I’m a whistle blower. I’m telling you the head of the intelligence agency isn’t telling the truth. So I’m correcting a lie by another official.’ Some have said he would have had an easier time with that argument if he had come to a member of Congress and gone through the official whistleblower, kind of, pathway,” said Paul, “I think they still would have probably put him in jail and thrown away the key.” DL reported on reaction from the libertarian community on Rand's comments. The District of Columbia’s Libertarian Party Chairman, Ryan Sabot stated that Rand's “attempts to wipe away credibility, gravity, and value of both Snowden and Manning’s leaks by Senator Paul are distasteful.” Jayel Aheram, blogger for Young Americans for Liberty, said that he was"disappointed that Sen. Rand Paul chose repeat the lie that Manning’s release and Wikileaks’ publication of the diplomatic cables harmed people. Brig. General Robert Carr, the man who was in charge of the Pentagon’s review of the leaks, admitted during Manning’s trial that no one was killed or harmed by the release of the cables." Young Americans for Liberty NY State Chair, Taweh Beysolow II said: It’s very obvious to me that Senator Paul would be against what Bradley Manning and Snowden did simply because he is a politician who has presidential aspirations within the Republican Party. The broad conservative movement does not have sympathy, nor feels empathy for either of these individuals because they feel as if they betrayed this country to some degree, despite how much it works against the Obama administration to their pleasure.Again, it serves more as a reminder that Senator Paul will most likely mimic a George Bush presidency rather than the ideal pie in the sky dream of a libertarian president in my opinion.
Post Comment Private Reply Ignore Thread
Top • Page Up • Full Thread • Page Down • Bottom/Latest
Comments (1-52) not displayed.
.
.
.
#53. To: abraxas, Cynicom (#51)
Atta Girl! Hold your position in space. :-)
"“Believe nothing merely because you have been told it. Do not believe what your teacher tells you merely out of respect for the teacher. But whatsoever, after due examination and analysis, you find to be kind, conducive to the good, the benefit, the welfare of all beings - that doctrine believe and cling to, and take it as your guide.” ~ Gautama Siddhartha — The Buddha Attacking posters Please specify exactly what you deem to be "negative accusatory language" in my posts to you. " If you cannot govern yourself, you will be governed by assholes. " Randge, Poet de Forum, 1/11/11 "Life's tough, and even tougher if you're stupid." --John Wayne
It appears you are circling away from the initial questions regarding the logical fallacies in your statements. Asking you questions about your comments isn't negative. Why are you attempting to make this personal? What is uncivil in any of my discourse to you? Why make a comment if not to discuss it on a discussion forum? " If you cannot govern yourself, you will be governed by assholes. " Randge, Poet de Forum, 1/11/11 "Life's tough, and even tougher if you're stupid." --John Wayne
He DID answer the question, said he was against ALL foreign aid. Naturally that would include Israel but it doesn't exclude any other nation. The reporter(s) wanted Ron to answer that question with a "Yes, I am against foreign aid to Israel." And Ron knew how they would have spun that and didn't bite. The man is not a fool and he would have been foolish to answer the question the way they (and it seems you) wanted him to. Paul Craig Roberts
#41: A great deal of our brainwashing and programming has been via the art of omission. #43: The questions asked were always of the definitive type, requiring only a yes or no answer. #49: All I know is that Paul has never answered the questions, for whatever reasons. Doing thus paints anyone into the realm of professional politician. Your charges against Ron Paul as if he dodged giving clear answers about his position on questions of Foreign Aid to Israel are absolutely not true, Cynicom. ------- "They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
Ron Paul: Cut Foreign Aid, Unshackle Israel, Leave Iran Alone - FOX interview at 1:49-2:57 of 6.25 minute video Uploaded on Aug 12, 2011 From the Transcript at ronpaul.com for the FOX interview above: Ron Paul: I disagree with him, because I don’t. We should be friends with Israel, and I don’t think we do a very good job at it. But I don’t think giving money to our friends is the right thing to do. I’m against all foreign aid, and if we cut out all the foreign aid today we would cut out 7 times more foreign aid from the enemies of Israel. But I wouldn’t give foreign aid to Israel. I want Israel to have their own national sovereignty. I don’t want them to depend on us either for the money which socializes their economy and they’re in financial trouble as well, and I don’t want them to depend on us to tell them how to draw up their peace treaties or what to do with their borders. So yes, we should have friendship with them, we should trade with them, but total dependence on United States and on our money is a bad risk for them because we’re in bankruptcy. We’re not going to be there forever, we are going to come home and I think their dependency on us is very, very harmful to them. Ron Paul against foreign aid to Israel - 1 minute video Uploaded on Dec 5, 2011 Ron Paul against foreign aid to Israel at the CNN National Security Debate Ron Paul: Foreign Policy & Israel - 4:32 to 5:19 of 7 minute video interview by Jack Hunter Uploaded on Dec 8, 2011 Ron Paul on Isreal, Foreign Aid and U.S. Foreign Policy - 10 minute video of a reading from Ron Paul's book, The Revolution: A Manifesto, based on written notes during his 2008 presidential campaign. Israel and Foreign Aid at start to 3:10 Edit to add Quote section and spacing + bracketed correction at the Transcription section, paragraph 1. ------- "They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
Uhhhh... Lot of words there. Heard it many times, never a yes or no. Ron always sounds a lot like a professional politician. OBFUSCATE Verb 1. obfuscate - make obscure or unclearobfuscate - make obscure or unclear alter, change, modify - cause to change; make different; cause a transformation One of them even gives an example of someone that is an expert at such...DOCTORS... Find me a plain olde yes or no. No obfuscation allowed.
Charges???? Good heavens. Lets keep this impersonal and in proper perspective.
Charges???? Charges...False Accusations. Take your pick of those phrasings. Lets keep this impersonal and in proper perspective. Do try to keep Ron Paul in proper perspective enough to not misdirect others by distorting historical facts in the process of your smear campaignings against him. If you wanted to keep it impersonal, you would not try to avoid taking responsibility for what you've mistakenly asserted accusingly about him by turning the focus away from a countering of that and flipping it into an affront against you personally somehow because the counterpoint addresses you at all. Really, Cynicom, if you're seriously all that rankled by the word "you", it's impractical in the extreme to expect debate formats to be reprimanded into specially conforming for you, per your Sensitivity Training instructions, and reply as if they're speaking to The Great and Powerful Oz or whatever instead. ------- "They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
How does it feel to be our very own Eddie Slovik ??????
I do know something of what he must have felt, but could not reconcile his regard for his own life, with the raw power of those that were not in his shoes. As a twenty year olde, I attended my first NSA provided briefing as a nuclear crew member. It became very plain, even to a dumb kid, that they were talking about a one way trip, one upon which they would be staying home. They would provide us with a .45 and one clip. It did not take a genius to connect the dots. What arrogant bastards, just doing their duty of course. Quit, refuse????? Not allowed. Refuse and we will crush you like a grape. Did two 90 day tours, on duty 24/7. Either flying or drunk most of the time. Duty free Seagrams VO was $11.00 a case, ten bottles in a wooden case. I do not take to much stock in people that talk a lot, but have never been there, never did that.
Jethro, an addendum... When the war ended, I told them I wanted off, another job in that field. Answer, no. Russia was still there. Here is where one has to look out for themselves. I was told to refrain or they would bust me to buck private. That made me happy so I said bust away, knowing full well that the job I held, by regulations could not be held by a private. That really soiled their briefs.
Lot of words there. Heard it many times, never a yes or no. Ron always sounds a lot like a professional politician. OBFUSCATE [...] Find me a plain olde yes or no. No obfuscation allowed. Professional Obfuscation is the paid poster realm you are painting yourself into on Ron Paul issues. Go try to find what you've ordered from me. It's not his answers that are evasive/non-existant (as you asserted at #49) but your premises that are wrong, and that has already been demonstrated. Ron Paul was not asked a yes or no question in the transcribed example (as you claimed at #43 they all were) but where he stood on Israel and he very clearly addressed in 7 words among those statements what his position was on Foreign Aid to Israel and then why. All you are proving is that he could say or do nothing to your liking and that you have nothing good to say about him -- even to the point that you seem to care more about imprinting bad impressions of him on people by slinging mud than you do about veracity. There's actually some terminology for that as a manipulative media tactic but it will take me a while to look that up. Will post it when I find it again. In the meantime, who do you suggest as a modern role model Constitutionally for the generations after yours, since you apparently are mission-bound to deny us even one of our own choosing if it's Ron Paul? Try to think of someone besides Jimmy Hoffa or whatever other Union Industry affiliates you esteem. ------- "They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
Condense that down a bit and I will try to read it.
JT to Cynicom: How does it feel to be our very own Eddie Slovik ?????? More flippin' Cynicom-VicSimming when the issue was his charges/false accusations against Ron Paul, not charges against Cynicom. ------- "They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
No. This is just a brainwashing game to you, not a political discussion. You've already shown in another thread that it doesn't really matter to you if someone posts only one short sentence of corrective facts about Ron Paul. Edited for formatting. ------- "They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
Pauls prefer long careers walking thin lines.
Verb 1. obfuscate - make obscure or unclearobfuscate - make obscure or unclear I've note in life that what one judges in another, especially zealously and continually despite clear evidence to the contrary, it is actually a projection of an issue that person owns and needs to personally address. There is obfuscation on this thread but it isn't coming from Ron Paul...... " If you cannot govern yourself, you will be governed by assholes. " Randge, Poet de Forum, 1/11/11 "Life's tough, and even tougher if you're stupid." --John Wayne
Rather than condense this post a bit, which would likely still be ignored by Cynicom on the Ron Paul campaign issues anyway, I edited it to expand the second sentence for bracketed clarification, then removed a word in another to make two sentences instead of one for simplicity. Bolded the requests at the paragraph closing on the off-chance there might be a quick read and sincere reply from him on that much, since it's more generally about role models of Constitutionality in the modern era: ------- "They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
True.. Olde Ron was one of the original "term limits" politicians. Then he caught the "fever" and was elected a total of eleven times. Olde Ron was a gold bug. Well, kind of, he bought into about a dozen mining companies and left Congress a multi millionaire. Original success story. Now he is panning the rubes one more time for gold.
What I would like to know is HOW he could have answered that question any better or more decisively. Seems perfectly clear to me. Paul Craig Roberts
I took the time to count the words used by olde Ron. One hundred and twenty four words, if my counter is correct. Neither decisively nor definitive. Of course olde Ron is a politician and is good at confusing the minds of many. I give him credit, he was elected eleven times,, even tho he was a strong term limits type of guy.
Good Lord, how much clearer could he have made it??? Seven words and the rest of it was to explain why. And he was against ALL foreign aid, didn't play favorites in that regard. Not to say that Ron doesn't have faults, we all do, but he can't be faulted for his stance in regard to foreign aid. That dog won't hunt. Paul Craig Roberts
Ron Paul was the least thin line walking politician I've ever seen. Can't even think of an example of that by him at the moment. ------- "They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
James... One hundred and twenty four words???? Used to "qualify" a one word answer?
Good Lord, how much clearer could he have made it??? Seven words and the rest of it was to explain why. I suspect he just ran all the words through an auto-counter without even looking for that statement on the issue of Foreign Aid to Israel, which was supposedly so integral to his Anti-Ron Paul pitches here. ------- "They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
Cyni won't be happy until RP scales the walls of the Capitol with a cutlass in his teeth and a Webley in his belt prepared to lay into officialdom like Mr. David Duke himself. Arrhh, me hearties. Know guns, know safety, know liberty. No guns, no safety, no liberty.
There is a foto of Rand in Israel with his little beanie on and this is what he had to say re Israel and war. " “Absolutely we stand with Israel. What I think we should do is announce to the world — and I think it is pretty well known — that any attack on Israel will be treated as an attack on the United States.” I would like to stay home this time. I wonder who "we" is in his statement?
"You're a good man, Doctor Paul. I never seen a better. And I'd 'ate t' see the likes o' you skewered on the end of a pike."
Know guns, know safety, know liberty. No guns, no safety, no liberty.
One hundred and twenty four words???? Used to "qualify" a one word answer? ??? You're the only one spinning the issue bizarrely as if the question asked of him was a matter for a one word answer. It wasn't and you've provided nothing to support your sweeping assertions that don't hold water, so to speak. He seems to be the only candidate you expected to be so reservedly abrupt on the topic to suit you at the risk of appearing evasive to just about everyone else in his audiences. Odd that from you. Applause for him anytime he thought to do better than to shortchange the more deeply concerned to get your approval. ------- "They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
Perhaps I was more fortunate.
As long as the vote system only allows voters to express an opinion about 1 of many candidates, there will always be only 2 parties in the mainstream. "Approval voting" allows people to vote for more than one candidate which is far better... which is one reason why it will likely never see the light of day. Of course, this doesn't even visit the issue of voter fraud. The system itself is what's broken.
Ron Paul could have broken out in dance.........like this guy. " If you cannot govern yourself, you will be governed by assholes. " Randge, Poet de Forum, 1/11/11 "Life's tough, and even tougher if you're stupid." --John Wayne
The system itself is what's broken. Very astute Ping! There will be no fair elections with Die Bold. System is completely corrupt. " If you cannot govern yourself, you will be governed by assholes. " Randge, Poet de Forum, 1/11/11 "Life's tough, and even tougher if you're stupid." --John Wayne
As I said, I don't know how he could have made it any clearer. Personally, I am glad he didn't just give a yes or no answer without any elaboration because I know how those can be spun. He didn't waffle, equivocate or straddle the fence but said what he meant in no uncertain terms and so clear that I don't know why anyone can't see it.
Paul Craig Roberts
I have a few ideas as to why some refuse to see it. Got butt hurt? lol! " If you cannot govern yourself, you will be governed by assholes. " Randge, Poet de Forum, 1/11/11 "Life's tough, and even tougher if you're stupid." --John Wayne
Well, I guess that is a possible explanation.
Paul Craig Roberts
Beanie babies ! "Just say no to drugs and Uncle Sambo."
Few extra ...you...in case the need arises. you you you you you Good morning to "you" and olde Ron.
Excerpts from a scientificamerican.com article: Lingering Lies: The Persistent Influence of Misinformation This result shows that “even if you understand, remember and believe the retractions, this misinformation will still affect your inferences,” says Western Australia psychologist Ullrich Ecker, an author of the study. Our memory is constantly connecting new facts to old and tying different aspects of a situation together, so that we may still unconsciously draw on facts we know to be wrong to make decisions later. ------- "They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
Any sufficiently advanced stupidity is indistinguishable from evil. ~ Unk (Paraphrase of Clarke's 3rd Law: "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.")
#54. To: Cynicom (#52)
It does take consideration and adeptness to refrain from using negative accusatory language.
#55. To: Cynicom (#52)
It does take consideration and adeptness to refrain from using negative accusatory language.
#56. To: Cynicom (#49)
(Edited)
All I know is that Paul has never answered the questions, for whatever reasons.
Americans who have no experience with, or knowledge of, tyranny believe that only terrorists will experience the unchecked power of the state. They will believe this until it happens to them, or their children, or their friends.
#57. To: Cynicom, abraxas, James Deffenbach, All (#49)
#33: Olde Ron was the sly one. Always when asked if he was in favor of foreign aid to Israel, olde Ron replied, "I am against all foreign aid".
#58. To: Cynicom, abraxas, James Deffenbach, All (#57)
(Edited)
charges against Ron Paul as if he dodged giving clear answers about his position on questions of Foreign Aid to Israel are absolutely not true
News Anchor: Our viewers ask better questions than I do, so let me get right to some of them, talking about where you stand. Don Peterson in Hemet, California wants to know, “Where does Mr. Paul stand on Israel? He seems to have dodged the question [every time] he’s been asked.”
#59. To: GreyLmist (#58)
Ron Paul: I disagree with him, because I don’t. We should be friends with Israel, and I don’t think we do a very good job at it. But I don’t think giving money to our friends is the right thing to do. I’m against all foreign aid, and if we cut out all the foreign aid today we would cut out 7 times more foreign aid from the enemies of Israel. But I wouldn’t give foreign aid to Israel. I want Israel to have their own national sovereignty. I don’t want them to depend on us either for the money which socializes their economy and they’re in financial trouble as well, and I don’t want them to depend on us to tell them how to draw up their peace treaties or what to do with their borders. So yes, we should have friendship with them, we should trade with them, but total dependence on United States and on our money is a bad risk for them because we’re in bankruptcy. We’re not going to be there forever, we are going to come home and I think their dependency on us is very, very harmful to them.
#60. To: GreyLmist (#57)
Your charges against Ron Paul as if he dodged giving clear answers about his position on questions of Foreign Aid to Israel are absolutely not true, Cynicom.
#61. To: Cynicom (#60)
Your charges against Ron Paul as if he dodged giving clear answers about his position on questions of Foreign Aid to Israel are absolutely not true, Cynicom.
Good heavens.
#62. To: Cynicom (#60)
Charges????
#63. To: Jethro Tull (#62)
How does it feel to be our very own Eddie Slovik ??????
#64. To: Jethro Tull (#62)
#65. To: Cynicom (#59)
Uhhhh...
#66. To: GreyLmist (#65)
#67. To: Jethro Tull, Cynicom (#62)
Charges????
#68. To: Cynicom (#66)
(Edited)
#69. To: GreyLmist, cynicom (#68)
#70. To: Cynicom (#59)
OBFUSCATE
#71. To: Cynicom, All (#65)
(Edited)
Find me a plain olde yes or no. No obfuscation allowed.
Professional Obfuscation is the paid poster realm you are painting yourself into on Ron Paul issues. Go try to find [evidence for your claims instead of ordering surfing assignments for me]. It's not his answers that are evasive/non-existant (as you asserted at #49) but your premises that are wrong, and that has already been demonstrated. Ron Paul was not asked a yes or no question in the transcribed example (as you claimed at #43 they all were) but where he stood on Israel. He very clearly addressed in 7 words among those statements what his position was on Foreign Aid to Israel and then why. All you are proving is that he could say or do nothing to your liking and that you have nothing good to say about him -- even to the point that you seem to care more about imprinting bad impressions of him on people by slinging mud than you do about veracity. There's actually some terminology for that as a manipulative media tactic but it will take me a while to look that up. Will post it when I find it again. In the meantime, who do you suggest as a modern role model Constitutionally for the generations after yours, since you apparently are mission-bound to deny us even one of our own choosing if it's Ron Paul? Try to think of someone besides Jimmy Hoffa or whatever other Union Industry affiliates you esteem.
#72. To: Deasy (#69)
Pauls prefer long careers walking thin lines.
#73. To: GreyLmist, Cynicom, all (#58)
I wouldn’t give foreign aid to Israel. I want Israel to have their own national sovereignty. I don’t want them to depend on us either for the money which socializes their economy and they’re in financial trouble as well, and I don’t want them to depend on us to tell them how to draw up their peace treaties or what to do with their borders. So yes, we should have friendship with them, we should trade with them, but total dependence on United States and on our money is a bad risk for them because we’re in bankruptcy. We’re not going to be there forever, we are going to come home and I think their dependency on us is very, very harmful to them.
Americans who have no experience with, or knowledge of, tyranny believe that only terrorists will experience the unchecked power of the state. They will believe this until it happens to them, or their children, or their friends.
#74. To: James Deffenbach (#73)
What I would like to know is HOW he could have answered that question any better or more decisively. Seems perfectly clear to me.
#75. To: Cynicom (#74)
"I wouldn’t give foreign aid to Israel."
Americans who have no experience with, or knowledge of, tyranny believe that only terrorists will experience the unchecked power of the state. They will believe this until it happens to them, or their children, or their friends.
#76. To: Deasy (#69)
Pauls prefer long careers walking thin lines.
#77. To: James Deffenbach (#75)
#78. To: James Deffenbach, Cynicom (#75)
"I wouldn’t give foreign aid to Israel."
#79. To: James Deffenbach, Cynicom (#75)
#80. To: randge (#79)
#81. To: Cynicom (#80)
#82. To: Cynicom (#77)
James...
#83. To: randge (#81)
I never seen a better.
#84. To: abraxas (#6)
The third party option had nothing to do with what we got. Limiting the options to TWO who are bought by the same corporate interests is no improvement.
#85. To: James Deffenbach (#75)
Good Lord, how much clearer could he have made it???
#86. To: Pinguinite (#84)
(Edited)
Of course, this doesn't even visit the issue of voter fraud.
#87. To: abraxas (#85)
Americans who have no experience with, or knowledge of, tyranny believe that only terrorists will experience the unchecked power of the state. They will believe this until it happens to them, or their children, or their friends.
#88. To: James Deffenbach (#87)
He didn't waffle, equivocate or straddle the fence but said what he meant in no uncertain terms and so clear that I don't know why anyone can't see it.
#89. To: abraxas (#88)
Americans who have no experience with, or knowledge of, tyranny believe that only terrorists will experience the unchecked power of the state. They will believe this until it happens to them, or their children, or their friends.
#90. To: Lod, christine (#34)
Once they put on the beanie, put them out.
#91. To: GreyLmist (#82)
#92. To: Cynicom, 4 (#65)
you seem to care more about imprinting bad impressions of [Ron Paul] on people by slinging mud than you do about veracity. There's actually some terminology for that as a manipulative media tactic but it will take me a while to look that up.
After people realize the facts have been fudged, they do their best to set the record straight: judges tell juries to forget misleading testimony; newspapers publish errata. But even explicit warnings to ignore misinformation cannot erase the damage done, according to a new study from the University of Western Australia.
Top • Page Up • Full Thread • Page Down • Bottom/Latest
