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Title: House Passes Toothless Resolution After Zionist Baptist Rep 'Urges' DoD to 'Permit' Freedom of Religion
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Published: Oct 6, 2013
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Post Date: 2013-10-06 11:53:17 by Artisan
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Views: 774
Comments: 41
I was initially pleased with this and was going to title this story 'Congress passes resolution to allow religious services on military bases during shutdown.' But once I saw the actual 'toothless' resolution and reading the background of its' proponent, I am a bit more cynical. I don't think we need 'permission' from this corrupt, filthy, murderous government to practice our faith. The proponent of this measure is part of the problem. Immediately after entering CONgress, he wrote "As one of our closest allies and friends, Israel should know the United States will always do its part to ensure Israelis are never put in harm’s way," and that United States and Israel must "be fully equipped" to "defend our nations from both military style attacks as well as cyber warfare." [Article continues here. Poster Comment: Also: Slothful Feds Surfing the internet, surveiling WhatReallyHappened.com during Government "Shutdown" Despite an extremely melodramatic "government shutdown" in which most federal agencies are allegedly 'tightening their belts' and shutting their doors, employees at several of those agencies are spending their time and taxpayer dollars surfing the web at alternative news websites such as whatreallyhappened.com The National Archives And Records Administration and The U.S. Department of The Interior, Office of The Secretary official ISPs were among many which logged onto WRH on Friday from their plush air-conditioned offices. Additionally, other agencies have been busy scurrying about seeking ways to further eviscerate the Constitution. The U.S. Department of Defense Network googled the term "how many people have registered their guns" and the Texas government searched the term " "authority for texas trooper to conduct commercial vehicle inspection without probable cause." official ISP (207.245.177.6) in College Park, Maryland was logged on Friday October 4th, clicking the LibertyFight.com link about the D.C. shooting, which had been featured at whatreallyhappened.com.
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#2. To: Artisan (#0)
So ridiculous that taxpayers are forced to carry these lazy slugs, who can't get real jobs, on their backs. What are these people doing that's profitable to the Republic, while earning $100,000+ each + medical and dental and vision perks + defined extravagent pensions? Snooping @ non-MSM news sites - give me a friggin' break - and watching porn - how does that make America competitive globally, as Ms. Marian Graddick-Weir ( Merck) said was necessary for America to do? You could fire 75% of Federal employees - including the Pentagon, NSA, Dept of Education, Dept of Interior. the EPA etc etc - and America would not suffer one bit. In fact as we see during this short shut down, the only only thing noticeable is that traffic is better in DC.
Alisa Rosenbaum also had an acidic stomach complaint that triggered off excessive disdain, for workers dependent on taxpayer largesse. Unmentioned by her worshippers is the fact she finished her days living on Social Security and Medicare.
Did she piss-away her royalties?
“The most dangerous man to any government is the man who is able to think things out... without regard to the prevailing superstitions and taboos. Almost inevitably he comes to the conclusion that the government he lives under is dishonest, insane, intolerable.” ~ H. L. Mencken
Indeed, along with her hangerson. Rosenbaum passed away in league with the human lice of this country, on social security, monthly check to check, and on Medicare while in poor health from her "free soul living". In New York City, in a cheap apartment, with an Irish last name.
Thanks. That's why I've always rolled sans posse. “The most dangerous man to any government is the man who is able to think things out... without regard to the prevailing superstitions and taboos. Almost inevitably he comes to the conclusion that the government he lives under is dishonest, insane, intolerable.” ~ H. L. Mencken
Unmentioned by her worshippers is the fact she finished her days living on Social Security and Medicare. Most 4um posters would not see any legitimate reason for a segue from a topic about useless, expensive, even dangerous federal government departments and employees to a remark about Ayn Rand using SS and Medicare benefits. However, you find a reason to attack libertarianism at any opportunity. I'm mildly surprised you brought up Ayn Rand rather than Dr. Ron Paul this time round. Ayn Rand was forced by the federal government to pay into Social Security ( her share + the employer's share because she was self-employed) and Medicare, so why shouldn't she use the "services" that her forced income taxes had already pre-paid for? And fyi, her philosophy about the evils of big government vs the rights of the individual actually were not in conflict by the fact that she used SS and Medicare benefits. Here's what she wrote in an 1966 Objectivist newsletter about the morality of accepting Social Security, unemployment insurance or similar payments: "It is obvious, in such cases, that a man receives his own money which was taken from him by force, directly and specifically, without his consent, against his own choice. Those who advocated such laws are morally guilty, since they assumed the “right” to force employers and unwilling co-workers. But the victims, who opposed such laws, have a clear right to any refund of their own money—and they would not advance the cause of freedom if they left their money, unclaimed, for the benefit of the welfare-state administration."
Cynicom: Indeed, along with her hangerson. Rosenbaum passed away in league with the human lice of this country, on social security, monthly check to check, and on Medicare while in poor health from her "free soul living". In New York City, in a cheap apartment, with an Irish last name. Cynicom, before you spout off AlterNet rumors, you should double check to see if there is any factual support. freestudents.blogspot.co....-ayn-rand-and-social.html "Lying about Ayn Rand and Social Security"
Scrap - To the best of your knowledge, is that information the truth? Thanks. “The most dangerous man to any government is the man who is able to think things out... without regard to the prevailing superstitions and taboos. Almost inevitably he comes to the conclusion that the government he lives under is dishonest, insane, intolerable.” ~ H. L. Mencken
To the best of your knowledge, is that information the truth? Thanks. Yes.
Thanks. I'm not in the mood to go chasing down more rabbit holes today. “The most dangerous man to any government is the man who is able to think things out... without regard to the prevailing superstitions and taboos. Almost inevitably he comes to the conclusion that the government he lives under is dishonest, insane, intolerable.” ~ H. L. Mencken
Ha! Watch some Sunday feetsball games to put yourself in a better mood.
Read it. Found no denial of any kind. Just hysterical, verbose frothing of the Rand type. Rand attracted those type of people. Rand and her followers had one common belief, if one did not agree with her mental exercises, then they were too stupid to understand higher mental thinking. Jews have an inherent dislike for work of any kind. With that in mind, they strive to create some method of extracting their living from others with no physical toil. They have found a tried and true method. Sell something that attracts those unable to direct their own lives without crutches offered by such charlatans. Anyone here that can give a coherent definition of "objectivism" will get my attention. Perhaps an in depth definition of the term "follower" would be helpful.
"Michael Ford Founding director, Xavier University's Center for the Study of the American Dream". "However, it was revealed in the recent "Oral History of Ayn Rand" by Scott McConnell (founder of the media department at the Ayn Rand Institute) that in the end Ayn was a vip-dipper as well. An interview with Evva Pryror, a social worker and consultant to Miss Rand's law firm of Ernst, Cane, Gitlin and Winick verified that on Miss Rand's behalf she secured Rand's Social Security and Medicare payments which Ayn received under the name of Ann O'Connor (husband Frank O'Connor). As Pryor said, "Doctors cost a lot more money than books earn and she could be totally wiped out" without the aid of these two government programs. Ayn took the bail out even though Ayn "despised government interference and felt that people should and could live independently... She didn't feel that an individual should take help." But alas she did and said it was wrong for everyone else to do so. Apart from the strong implication that those who take the help are morally weak, it is also a philosophic point that such help dulls the will to work, to save and government assistance is said to dull the entrepreneurial spirit. In the end, Miss Rand was a hypocrite but she could never be faulted for failing to act in her own self-interest". If one has time, they might look for a review of one of Rosenbaums books by Whitaker Chambers nearly sixty years ago. Chambers was associated with twisted jewish minds for a long time, so he was well qualified to review the contortions of Rosenbaum.
. (That's better - I don't think we need 'permission' from this corrupt, filthy, murderous government(.) The article should have ended right there. The foulness that we call govt needs our permission to do anything - and we've forgotten. Don't let Uncle Sambo steal your soul - you only get one Doug
Have you given your blessing to hypocrisy ? Don't let Uncle Sambo steal your soul - you only get one Doug
“The most dangerous man to any government is the man who is able to think things out... without regard to the prevailing superstitions and taboos. Almost inevitably he comes to the conclusion that the government he lives under is dishonest, insane, intolerable.” ~ H. L. Mencken
Loving whomever you choose to love is liberty ... being forced at the point of a gun or under the threat of arrest and incarceration is "RAPE" !
Don't let Uncle Sambo steal your soul - you only get one Doug
One other thing: It is my opinion that we've given the cocksuckers more than enough time to establish a free and peaceful environment for the people to enjoy ... thusfar they've fucked it up beyond repair and do not deserve our attention. Every man for himself (and if he chooses to lift up someone else that's quite alright). Don't let Uncle Sambo steal your soul - you only get one Doug
Mu puter audio is on vacation for some reason, so was unable to listen to the Wallace interview.
Dang. Have you checked the Mute button? Maybe a reboot would help... “The most dangerous man to any government is the man who is able to think things out... without regard to the prevailing superstitions and taboos. Almost inevitably he comes to the conclusion that the government he lives under is dishonest, insane, intolerable.” ~ H. L. Mencken
Where mite I find the mute button???
Great interview! Thanks for the link. I watched Part 2 as well. In 1959 Ayn Rand had the vision to identify and articulate what many Americans are starting to see today - ie. that both parties are pro socialism, collectivism; that capitalism with the government's help is not capitalism and is the worst kind of thing; that our nation is heading to a dictatorship ( oligarchy) and the welfare state ultimately spells economic disaster; etc etc
This keyboard has a row of buttons above the "F" keys with Back, Forward, Mute, and twelve other hot-keys. Most convenient. “The most dangerous man to any government is the man who is able to think things out... without regard to the prevailing superstitions and taboos. Almost inevitably he comes to the conclusion that the government he lives under is dishonest, insane, intolerable.” ~ H. L. Mencken
She got lots of things right.
“The most dangerous man to any government is the man who is able to think things out... without regard to the prevailing superstitions and taboos. Almost inevitably he comes to the conclusion that the government he lives under is dishonest, insane, intolerable.” ~ H. L. Mencken
thanks for that. I believe your version.
"Even to the death fight for truth, and the LORD your God will battle for you". Sirach 4:28
I was curious and like to document things so I went to the link for myself which purportedly 'refuted' the claim that ayn rand went on social security. In reality the article states no such thing, and as a matter of fact acknowledges that rand was on SS. yet they only criticize whom they call "childish" leftist critics for calling libertarians on it. whatever the left may or may not think of rand, the fact is nthat they are 100% legitimate for pointing out the glaring hypocrisy of demonizing SS your whole life and then accepting it when u get old. clip: http://freestudents.blogspot.co.nz/2011/10/lying-about-ayn-rand-and- social.html in 1966 Rand's Objectivist Newsletter said that not collecting from programs that one is forced to finance would be wrong. It said: "Even to the death fight for truth, and the LORD your God will battle for you". Sirach 4:28
This is what I posted to Scrap... "Found no denial of any kind. Just hysterical, verbose frothing of the Rand type." I read Scraps article, saw nothing.
I don't know how it was back when, but a couple weeks before my 65th b'day rolled in a fresh new Medicare Part A card, and then when I was 65, monthly US Treasury deposits were made to our bank account all without my doing anything. Though the year there were two "accounting adjustments" to the SS payments adding another 7+K to the year's take. I'll accept their accounting 'cause I haven't a clue... “The most dangerous man to any government is the man who is able to think things out... without regard to the prevailing superstitions and taboos. Almost inevitably he comes to the conclusion that the government he lives under is dishonest, insane, intolerable.” ~ H. L. Mencken
For sure but her entire life was negative as she was "selling something". Rosenbaum laughed when people bought her snake oil, hook line and sinker. Rosenbaum said the masses were but mere lice, with barely a right to life. In this instance, "masses" are you, me and anyone other non jew. Von Mises was quick to congratulate her for speaking the "truth".
See the link I provided in #8 and read the article. It has embedded links and also rebutts all ridiculous rumors made about Ayn Rand by Ayn Rand haters, many of whom have not read her novels or her non-fiction writings about her philosophy. Ayn Rand and her husband were forced to pay taxes to support both SS and Medicare programs. Given Ayn Rand paid taxes on all her income from writing during an era when the top tax bracket was at or over 90%, how is it at all hypocritical for her to take money she was legally entitled to? It has been claimed that "Between December 1974 and her death in March 1982, Rand collected a total of $11,002 in monthly Social Security payments. O’Connor received $2,943 between December 1974 and his death in November 1979." Do you really think throughout her lifetime Ayn Rand only paid the Government $11,000 in taxes? Claiming SS and Medicare benefits was not hypocritical whatsoever. Indeed, it's entirely in keeping with Ayn Rand's philosophy which is for the individual to retrieve from the welfare state benefits that were forcibly taken by government. Here's a free online lexicon, mini-encyclopedia compiled from Ayn Rand's "statements on some 400 topics in philosophy, economics, psychology and history." She was even asked about the subject of accepting government scholarships, grants, SS, UI, etc - read her responses: aynrandlexicon.com/lexico...nts_and_scholarships.html snip The fundamental evil of government grants is the fact that men are forced to pay for the support of ideas diametrically opposed to their own. This is a profound violation of an individual’s integrity and conscience. It is viciously wrong to take the money of rational men for the support of B.F. Skinner—or vice versa. The Constitution forbids a governmental establishment of religion, properly regarding it as a violation of individual rights. Since a man’s beliefs are protected from the intrusion of force, the same principle should protect his reasoned convictions and forbid governmental establishments in the field of thought... Since there is no such thing as the right of some men to vote away the rights of others, and no such thing as the right of the government to seize the property of some men for the unearned benefit of others—the advocates and supporters of the welfare state are morally guilty of robbing their opponents, and the fact that the robbery is legalized makes it morally worse, not better. The victims do not have to add self-inflicted martyrdom to the injury done to them by others; they do not have to let the looters profit doubly, by letting them distribute the money exclusively to the parasites who clamored for it. Whenever the welfare-state laws offer them some small restitution, the victims should take it . . . . The same moral principles and considerations apply to the issue of accepting social security, unemployment insurance or other payments of that kind. It is obvious, in such cases, that a man receives his own money which was taken from him by force, directly and specifically, without his consent, against his own choice. Those who advocated such laws are morally guilty, since they assumed the “right” to force employers and unwilling co-workers. But the victims, who opposed such laws, have a clear right to any refund of their own money—and they would not advance the cause of freedom if they left their money, unclaimed, for the benefit of the welfare-state administration... *********************************************************************** The allegation that Rand used another name to "double dip" is absurd. Did you even try to look up the name "Ann O'Connor" or "Ann Oconnor" on the SS Death Index? I did and it wasn't listed. I searched for "Ayn Ryan" and it was listed. Social Security Death Index (SSDI) Death Record Name: Ayn Rand State of Issue: California Date of Birth: Thursday February 02, 1905 Date of Death: March 1982 Est. Age at Death: 77 years, 1 months Last known residence: City: New York; Manhattan County: New York State: New York ZIP Code: 10019 Latitude: 40.7652 Longitude: -73.9853
In reality the article states no such thing, and as a matter of fact acknowledges that rand was on SS. yet they only criticize whom they call "childish" leftist critics for calling libertarians on it. whatever the left may or may not think of rand, the fact is nthat they are 100% legitimate. How did you miss the embedded links to her philosophy which supports an individual getting back restitution - if the opportunity presents itself - for the $ forcibly robbed from them by government by way of taxes? It's silly to say that opponents of government wealth transfer ( like Ayn Rand) should let their $ to be forcibly transferred away from them and not try to get some of it back if and when the opportunity comes up to do so. Wouldn't any of us @ 4um do the same?
I think you have a bigger problem with the fact that Ayn Rand was a Jew than you do with her philosophy of Objectivism, about which you clearly have no knowledge because you have not read her works. Fyi - Ayn Rand was against the Bolshevik Revolution - she was not one of "them" so put your mind at ease about hating Ayn Rand for her sin of being born Jewish - the Bolsheviks seized her father's business - she and her family were left penniless.
Sir Lod... Bill Buckley and Whittaker Chambers were far more qualified to expose Rosenbaum as a fraud than myself and most other lice. This is what they wrote about her...... " Whittaker Chambers on Rand..... An old National Review article that susses out why we have no business ever taking Atlas Shrugged seriously. To put it simply, Randian philosophy is incapable of being any more than pseudo-intellectualism grounded in unfounded egotism: Something of this implication is fixed in the book’s dictatorial tone, which is much its most striking feature. Out of a lifetime of reading, I can recall no other book in which a tone of overriding arrogance was so implacably sustained. Its shrillness is without reprieve. Its dogmatism is without appeal. In addition, the mind which finds this tone natural to it shares other characteristics of its type. 1) It consistently mistakes raw force for strength, and the rawer the force, the more reverent the posture of the mind before it. 2) It supposes itself to be the bringer of a final revelation. Therefore, resistance to the Message cannot be tolerated because disagreement can never be merely honest, prudent, or just humanly fallible. Dissent from revelation so final (because, the author would say, so reasonable) can only be willfully wicked. There are ways of dealing with such wickedness, and, in fact, right reason itself enjoins them. From almost any page of Atlas Shrugged, a voice can be heard, from painful necessity, commanding: “To a gas chamber — go!” The same inflexibly self-righteous stance results, too (in the total absence of any saving humor), in odd extravagances of inflection and gesture-that Dollar Sign, for example. At first, we try to tell ourselves that these are just lapses, that this mind has, somehow, mislaid the discriminating knack that most of us pray will warn us in time of the difference between what is effective and firm, and what is wildly grotesque and excessive. Soon we suspect something worse. We suspect that this mind finds, precisely in extravagance, some exalting merit; feels a surging release of power and passion precisely in smashing up the house. A tornado might feel this way, or Carrie Nation. William F. Buckley’s obit on Rand (not currently available online, to my knowledge) which references an interesting tidbit of gossip regarding the above piece: Ayn Rand, RIP New York, March 10, 1982 Rand is dead. So, incidentally, is the philosophy she sought to launch dead; it was in fact stillborn. The great public crisis in Ayn Rand’s career came, in my judgment, when Whittaker Chambers took her on—in December of 1957, when her book Atlas Shrugged best-seller list, lecturers were beginning to teach something called Randism, and students started using such terms as “mysticism of the mind” (religion), and “mysticism of the muscle” (statism). Whittaker Chambers, whose authority with American conservatives was as high as that of any man then living, wrote in NATIONAL REVIEW, after a lengthy analysis of the essential aridity of Miss Rand’s philosophy, “Out of a lifetime of reading, I can recall no other book in which a tone of overriding arrogance was so implacably sustained. Its shrillness is without reprieve. Its dogmatism is without appeal.” I had met Miss Rand three years before that review was published. Her very first words to me (I do not exaggerate) were: “You ahrr too intelligent to believe in Gott.” The critic Wilfrid Sheed once remarked, when I told him the story, “Well, that certainly is an icebreaker.” It was; and we conversed, and did so for two or three years. I used to send her postcards in liturgical Latin: but levity with Miss Rand was not an effective weapon. And when I published Whittaker Chambers’ review, her resentment was so comprehensive that she regularly inquired of all hosts or toastmasters whether she was being invited to a function at which I was also scheduled to appear, because if that was the case, either she would not come; or, if so, only after I had left; or before I arrived. I fear that I put the lady through a great deal of choreographical pain. Miss Rand’s most memorable personal claim (if you don’t count the one about her being the next greatest philosopher after Aristotle) was that since formulating her philosophy of “objectivism,” she had never experienced any emotion for which she could not fully account. And then one day, a dozen years ago, she was at a small dinner, the host of which was Henry Hazlitt, the libertarian economist, the other guest being Ludwig von Mises, the grand master of the Austrian school of anti-statist economics. Miss Rand was going on about something or other, at which point Mises told her to be quiet, that she was being very foolish. The lady who could account for all her emotions at that point burst out into tears, and complained: “You are treating me like a poor ignorant little Jewish girl!” Mr. Hazlitt, attempting to bring serenity to his table, leaned over and said, “There there, Ayn, that isn’t at all what Ludwig was suggesting.” But this attempt at conciliation was ruined when Mises jumped up and said: “That iss eggsactly what you ahrr!” Since both participants were Jewish, this was not a racist slur. This story was mortal to her reputation as the lady of total self-control. THERE WERE other unpleasantnesses of professional interest, such as her alienation from her principal apostle, Nathaniel Branden—who was so ungallant as to suggest, in retaliation against her charge that he was trying to swindle her, that the breakup was the result of his rejection of an, er, amatory advance by Miss Rand. Oh goodness, it got ugly. There were a few who, like Chambers, caught on early. Atlas Shrugged was published back before the law of the Obligatory Sex Scene was passed by both Houses of Congress and all fifty state legislatures, so that the volume was considered rather risque, in its day. Russell Kirk, challenged to account for Miss Rand’s success if indeed she was merely an exiguous philosophic figure, replied, “Oh, they read her books for the fornicating bits.” Unkind. And only partly true. The Fountainhead, read in a certain way, is a profound assertion of the integrity of art. What did Miss Rand in was her anxiety to theologize her beliefs. She was an eloquent and persuasive anti-statist, and if only she had left it at that—but no, she had to declare that God did not exist, that altruism was despicable, that only self-interest is good and noble. She risked, in fact, giving to capitalism that bad name that its enemies have done so well in giving it; and that is a pity. Miss Rand was a talented woman, devoted to her ideals. She came as a refugee from Communism to this country as a young woman, and carved out a substantial career. May she rest in peace, and may she experience the demystification of her mind possessed.
Ayn Rand Institute and Ayn Rand Archives has great information about Ayn Rand and her philosophy.
Amen. I've always thought labeling social security an entitlement was a misnomer. Anyone who has been taxed by FICA, x multiple decades, and then turns their nose up at an opportunity to receive at least a portion of it back, isn't proving anything but poor judgment IMO.
SS was a tax from day one, just like any other tax. It was and is the price for living. I own my own home, but neglect to pay the tax and the state takes it away, I have nothing. At least with SS tax, if one lives long enough, there is a chance to get something back. There is NO ONE here that has not or will not take their SS and Medicare when eligible. I pay gasoline tax, so I drive on their roads, not on the shoulders. Rand swindled a lot of people, admitting it is not possible for a few.
Lololol!! I love a good airing of kosher dirty laundry!!! Despite an extremely melodramatic "government shutdown" in which most federal agencies are allegedly 'tightening their belts' and shutting their doors, employees at several of those agencies are spending their time and taxpayer dollars surfing the web at alternative news websites
#3. To: scrapper2 (#2)
#4. To: Cynicom (#3)
#5. To: Lod (#4)
Did she piss-away her royalties?
#6. To: Cynicom (#5)
#7. To: Cynicom (#3)
Alisa Rosenbaum also had an acidic stomach complaint that triggered off excessive disdain, for workers dependent on taxpayer largesse.
#8. To: Cynicom, Lod (#5)
Lod: Did she piss-away her royalties?
#9. To: scrapper2 (#8)
#10. To: Lod (#9)
Scrap -
#11. To: scrapper2 (#10)
#12. To: Lod (#11)
I'm not in the mood to go chasing down more rabbit holes today.
#13. To: scrapper2, Lod (#8)
The article claimed "Rand herself received Social Security payments and Medicare benefits under the name of Ann O'Connor." O'Connor was her married name but her given name was Alice not Ann, but then facts are not important to the smearbund.
#14. To: scrapper2, Lod (#8)
#15. To: Artisan (#0)
I don't think we need 'permission' from this corrupt, filthy, murderous government
#16. To: Cynicom (#14)
In the end, Miss Rand was a hypocrite but she could never be faulted for failing to act in her own self-interest".
#17. To: Cynicom, scrapper2, 4 (#14)
#18. To: Lod (#17)
#19. To: Lod (#17)
#20. To: Lod (#17)
#21. To: Cynicom (#20)
#22. To: Lod (#21)
#23. To: Lod (#17)
#24. To: Cynicom (#22)
#25. To: scrapper2 (#23)
#26. To: Cynicom (#14)
#27. To: Cynicom, scrapper2, lod (#14)
I found this odd since Rand had commented that people who are forced to fund government programs are NOT immoral for taking the benefits for which they paid. For instance, it is not wrong for people to attend government schools, which are funded with their tax monies, whether they like it or not. They have to start with a false premise: that Rand said receiving Social Security, that one is forced to pay for, was wrong. Without that false claim they have no charge of hypocrisy. They pretend she took a position she never took and then accuse her of violating the position she didn't take.
#28. To: Artisan (#27)
#29. To: Artisan, scrapper2, Cynicom, 4 (#27)
#30. To: Lod (#25)
She got lots of things right.
#31. To: Cynicom, Lod, All (#14)
" An interview with Evva Pryror, a social worker and consultant to Miss Rand's law firm of Ernst, Cane, Gitlin and Winick verified that on Miss Rand's behalf she secured Rand's Social Security and Medicare payments which Ayn received under the name of Ann O'Connor (husband Frank O'Connor)."
#32. To: Artisan (#27)
(Edited)
I was curious and like to document things so I went to the link for myself which purportedly 'refuted' the claim that ayn rand went on social security.
#33. To: Cynicom (#30)
#34. To: Lod, Artisan, Randites (#29)
#35. To: Lod, All (#29)
#36. To: scrapper2, 4 (#32)
It's silly to say that opponents of government wealth transfer ( like Ayn Rand) should let their $ to be forcibly transferred away from them and not try to get some of it back if and when the opportunity comes up to do so. Wouldn't any of us @ 4um do the same?
#37. To: Jethro Tull (#36)
#38. To: Cynicom (#34)
at which point Mises told her to be quiet, that she was being very foolish. The lady who could account for all her emotions at that point burst out into tears, and complained: “You are treating me like a poor ignorant little Jewish girl!” Mr. Hazlitt, attempting to bring serenity to his table, leaned over and said, “There there, Ayn, that isn’t at all what Ludwig was suggesting.” But this attempt at conciliation was ruined when Mises jumped up and said: “That iss eggsactly what you ahrr!” Since both participants were Jewish, this was not a racist slur. This story was mortal to her reputation as the lady of total self-control.
-Alex Kurtagic
#39. To: X-15 (#38)
Whittaker Chambers exposed her as a fraud nearly sixty years ago and still she has modern day "followers".
#40. To: scrapper2, cynicom, lod (#32)
I agree 100% that since government steals $$ from americans through force all their lives, they should absolutely reap the so-called 'benefits', at least a pittance of it, back thru SS or whatever else they can. I've said that for years without ever knowing anything about ayn rand. the sole point I was trying to clarify is that cynicom said rand died on social security, and you seemed to be trying to refute that fact based on the article. (cynicom had stated "...Rosenbaum passed away in league with the human lice of this country, on social security, monthly check to check, and on Medicare while in poor health from her "free soul living". You replied, in part, "Cynicom, before you spout off AlterNet rumors, you should double check to see if there is any factual support." At that point, I was very curious if it was true or not whether rand had died receiving social security. I didn't know which side was correct. But I also understand YOUR point which is, if Rand never said that people shouldn't take benefits which they 'pay' for their whole lives. If that's the case, then I agree she is not a hypocrite. however, if someone stringently advocates non dependence on the state, it simply seems silly to accept the bennies from the 'papa' which they so deride. So I understand the left's argument, too. Full disclosure though, personally, like cynicom, I am not a fan of atheists and would never read their books or take advice from them. there are plenty of good teachers and role models, and saints to learn from. To me, To laud a jewish atheist abortionist in any way is truly insane. No offense intended.. but.. Yikes. ;-) How did you miss the embedded links to her philosophy which supports an individual getting back restitution - if the opportunity presents itself - for the $ forcibly robbed from them by government by way of taxes?
"Even to the death fight for truth, and the LORD your God will battle for you". Sirach 4:28
#41. To: Artisan (#40)
You replied, in part, "Cynicom, before you spout off AlterNet rumors, you should double check to see if there is any factual support." But I also understand YOUR point which is, if Rand never said that people shouldn't take benefits which they 'pay' for their whole lives. If that's the case, then I agree she is not a hypocrite. however, if someone stringently advocates non dependence on the state, it simply seems silly to accept the bennies from the 'papa' which they so deride. So I understand the left's argument, too. Full disclosure though, personally, like cynicom, I am not a fan of atheists and would never read their books or take advice from them. there are plenty of good teachers and role models, and saints to learn from. To me, To laud a jewish atheist abortionist in any way is truly insane. No offense intended.. but.. Yikes. ;-) You threw out a number of false premises in your response. I'm not sure whether you did it on purpose or whether it's that you did not read through the thread or the article I linked to in #8. Frankly I don't care. 1. Cynicom passed along some whoppers in his statement in #5 which you have edited out. Here's what he said: "Indeed, along with her hangerson. Rosenbaum passed away in league with the human lice of this country, on social security, monthly check to check, and on Medicare while in poor health from her "free soul living". In New York City, in a cheap apartment, with an Irish last name." He provided no links to the lies he spouts which you don't seem to question. He paints a picture of a poor Ayn Rand subsisting on Medicare and SS payments (monthly check to check) double dipping by using an Irish name. The article I link to in #8 dispels entirely and/or calls into question the lies that were being peddled. Here is what I said: "Cynicom, before you spout off AlterNet rumors, you should double check to see if there is any factual support." I made a general statement. You otoh key into 1 single rumor - whether or not Ayn Rand collected SS, which seems odd to me - unless you didn't "need" to read the article because you had already come onto the thread with a personal bias. The article and other information I provide on the thread show that Ayn Rand died living comfortable circumstances not a flea a bitten apartment. She did not die as a poor pretend Irish woman named Ann O'Connor. There is no record on the SS Death Index of a woman named Ann O'Connor who lived and died in Ayn Rand's dates. There is only one person on the SS Death Index in those date parameters and the name is Ayn Rand. I think that's at least 2 rumors that have been eliminated as falsehoods. Okay - still with me? Regarding the question of SS - there is no evidence whether or not Ayn Rand collected SS. All we have is the fact that Ayn Rand was eligible to collect SS and the $ numbers of what she could have collected if she chose to do so. I put those #'s in quotation marks in #31 prefacing the numbers with the phrase "it has been claimed." An acquaintance to Ayn Rand - Evva Joan Pryor - who worked for the law firm of Ernst, Crane Gitlin & Winick which handled all legal matters for Rand. Pryor is quoted in a book entitled "100 Voices: an oral history of Ayn Rand" as indicating Ayn Rand signed a power of attorney . Quote from article in post #8: ... "She signed a power of attorney and Pryor said that she acted "whether [Ayn] agreed or not." Pryor never actually says what actions she (Pryor) took in spite of whether Ayn "agreed or not." What we have is the rabid Left jumping to numerous conclusions not warranted by the evidence...there is no indication she actually got any benefits because Pryor doesn't say." The pièce de résistance to this Pryor remark about power of attorney - what the rabid Rand haters do not realize is that Social Security DOES NOT RECOGNIZE "power of attorney." Pryor could not apply for benefits on Ayn Rand's behalf. Look it up yourself. Or ask Cynicom - he should know, eh? Lastly - your convoluted remark about what Ayn Rand and I have said by starting from a negative and then proceeding to qualify your mumbo jumbo with an "if": "But I also understand YOUR point which is, if Rand never said that people shouldn't take benefits which they 'pay' for their whole lives. If that's the case, then I agree she is not a hypocrite." In 1966 - well before she became ill with lung cancer - she is quoted as saying that it was incumbent on taxpayers who were forced by government to pay taxes and support welfare state programs - if the opportunity presented itself - to take back $ they were robbed off by force. See #7 and #31 - I quote Ayn Rand. It wasn't that Ayn Rand said it "was okay". She pretty much said it was incumbent for a taxpayer to recoup what had been taken by force and to not leave the $ for the welfare state to waste. The Left has no foot to stand on so I have no idea what you "understand" as being their point. As for damning atheists - though you've not read their books - as well as "jews" and "abortionists" as a general rule - well it's your privilege to hold the views and positions. I do not share your mindset, but hey, each to their own. (cynicom had stated "...Rosenbaum passed away in league with the human lice of this country, on social security, monthly check to check, and on Medicare while in poor health from her "free soul living".
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