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Religion See other Religion Articles Title: Did Jesus Pay For Our Sins In Hell? There is a false teaching among Word Faith teachers that Jesus did not pay for our sins on the cross. Some actually teach that when the blood of Jesus poured out on the cross that it did not atone for our sins. They claim that Jesus had to suffer in our place in hell in order to finish the redemption. Here are some of their quotes: "Do you think that the punishment for our sin was to die on a cross? If that were the case, the two thieves could have paid your price. No, the punishment was to go into hell itself and to serve time in hell separated from God Satan and all the demons of hell thought that they had Him bound and they threw a net over Jesus and they dragged Him down to the very pit of hell itself to serve our sentence." (Fred Price, Ever Increasing Faith Messenger June 1980. Hank Hanegraaff, "Christianity in Crisis" page 347.) "Now here's the part I want you to get. When He said, "It is finished," on that cross he was not speaking of the plan of redemption -- the plan of redemption had just begun. There were still three days and three nights to be gone through before He went to the throne." (Ken Copeland, "What Happened From The Cross To The Throne." The atonement of christ and the “faith” message, Christian Research Institute) "I've had ugly books written about me because I said that Jesus died spiritually, but the fact is, I didn't say that–the Bible said it. Jesus became our substitute. If he hadn't died spiritually, then we could never have been made alive spiritually. But He did! On the cross, Jesus was separated from the glory of God. He allowed Himself to be made sin for us, and He became obedient to death. He went into the pit of hell and suffered there as though He was the One Who had committed the sin." (Ken Copeland, "The Power of His Resurrection") "It wasn't a physical death on the cross that paid the price for sin...anybody can do that." (Kenneth Copeland, Audio-Clip "Christianity in Crisis," Hank Hanegraaff) "Satan conquered Jesus on the Cross." (Ken Copeland, "Kenneth Copeland Reference Bible 1991, page 129. Hank Hanegraaff, "Christianity in Crisis" page 338.) "He [Jesus] allowed the devil to drag Him into the depths of hell....He allowed Himself to come under Satan's control...every demon in hell came down on Him to annihilate Him....They tortured Him beyond anything anybody had ever conceived. For three days He suffered everything there is to suffer." (Kenneth Copeland, "The Price of It All," page 3. WHAT'S WRONG WITH THE FAITH MOVEMENT?" Christian Research Institute) "He [Jesus] tasted spiritual death for every man. And His spirit and inner men went to hell in my place. Can't you see that? Physical death wouldn't remove your sins. He's tasted death for every man. He's talking about tasting spiritual death." (Ken Hagin, "How Jesus Obtained His Name." Hank Hanegraaff, "Christianity in Crisis" page 164) Jan Crouch, approvingly recited the following words from Paul Billheimer's book during a live communion service aired on TBN: "It was not sufficient for Christ to offer up only his physical life on the cross. His pure human spirit had to descend into hell ...His spirit must not only descend into hell, but into the lowest hell....The Father turned Him over, not only to the agony and death of Calvary, but to the satanic torturers of His pure spirit as part of the just dessert of the sin of all the race. As long as Christ was 'the essence of sin' he was at Satan's mercy in that place of torment. . . While Christ identified with sin, Satan and the hosts of hell ruled over Him as over any lost sinner. During that seemingly endless age in the nether abyss of death, Satan did with Him as he would, and all hell was 'in carnival." (Jan Crouch and Paul E. Billheimer: "Destined for the Throne," page 83-84. Quoted by Jan Crouch during "Praise the Lord," 20 August 1987. Hank Hanegraaff, "Christianity in Crisis" page 164-165.) The Bible warns us not to follow men (Jeremiah 17:5, Psalm 118:8), but to test what all leaders teach with scripture (1 John 4:1, Acts 17:11). In Deuteronomy 13:3, God says that He will test us with false prophets to see if we truly love Him, "You shall not listen to the words of that prophet or that dreamer of dreams; for the LORD your God is testing you to find out if you love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul." If it can be clearly proven that the Bible teaches that Jesus paid the penalty for our sins on the cross in his physical body would you still follow these people? Do you truly love God with all of your heart and soul or do you follow man? Is the bible your final authority or man? These are some questions that you might have to wrestle with. I pray that you choose God over man. Jesus told the thief that they would be in Paradise, not hell: "And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, Today shalt thou be with me in paradise." Luke 23:43 On the cross Jesus said, "It is finished," paid in full: "When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost." John 19:30 Jesus gave His Spirit to His Father, not Satan: "And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit: and having said thus, he gave up the ghost." Luke 23:46 Our Sins were paid by His bodily death on the cross, not in hell: "But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ. For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us; Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace; And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby." Ephesians 2:13-16 "For it pleased the Father that in him should all fullness dwell; And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven. And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight" Colossians 1:19-22 "And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses; Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross; And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it." Colossians 2:13-15 "Who, when he was reviled, reviled not again; when he suffered, he threatened not; but committed himself to him that judgeth righteously: Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed." 1 Peter 2:23-24 "Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin; That he no longer should live the rest of his time in the flesh to the lusts of men, but to the will of God." 1 Peter 4:1-2 "By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all." Hebrews 10:10 "Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God." Romans 7:4 "Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil; And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage." Hebrews 2:14-15 "But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him." Romans 5:8-9 "Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood." Acts 20:28 "Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God." Romans 3:25 "And when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me. After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, this cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me. For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do shew the Lord's death till he come." 1 Corinthians 11:24-26 "Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will, To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved. In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace." Ephesians 1:5-7 "Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light: Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son: In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins." Colossians 1:12-14 "But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building; Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us...How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?...And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission...So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation." Hebrews 9:11-12, 14, 22, 28 "Wherefore Jesus also, that he might sanctify the people with his own blood, suffered without the gate...Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant." Hebrews 13:12, 20 "Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied...Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers; But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot." 1 Peter 1:2, 18-19 EPHESIANS 4:9—Did Jesus descend into hell, as some Word-Faith teachers argue? MISINTERPRETATION: The apostle Paul claims here that Jesus “descended into the lower parts of the earth.” And the Apostles’ Creed declares that after Jesus died he “descended into hell.” Word-Faith teachers cite this verse in attempting to prove that upon his death Jesus went to hell for three days (Copeland, 1991, 3). CORRECTING THE MISINTERPRETATION: There are two views as to where Jesus went the three days his body was in the grave before his resurrection. The Hades View: One position claims that Christ’s spirit went to the spirit world, while his body was in the grave. Here, they believe, he spoke to the “spirits in prison” (1 Peter 3:19) who were in a temporary holding place until he would come and “lead captivity captive,” that is, take them to heaven. According to this view, there were two compartments in Hades (or sheol)—one for the saved and another for the unsaved. They were separated by a “great gulf” (Luke 16:26) which no man could pass. The section for the saved was called “Abraham’s bosom” (Luke 16:22). When Christ, as the “firstfruits” of the resurrection (1 Cor. 15:20), ascended, he led these Old Testament saints into heaven for the first time with him. The Heaven View. This teaching holds that the souls of Old Testament believers went directly to heaven the moment they died. Jesus affirmed that his spirit was going directly to heaven, declaring, “Father, into your hands I commit my spirit” (Luke 23:46 niv). Jesus promised the thief on the cross, “Today, you will be with me in Paradise” (Luke 23:43). “Paradise” is defined as “the third heaven” in 2 Corinthians 12:2–4. When Old Testament saints departed this life, they went directly to heaven. God took Enoch to be with himself (Gen. 5:24; cf. Heb. 11:5), and Elijah was caught up into “heaven” when he departed (2 Kings 2:1). “Abraham’s bosom” (Luke 16:23) is a description of heaven. At no time is it ever described as hell. It is the place to which Abraham went, which is the kingdom of heaven in Matthew 8:11. When Old Testament saints appear before the cross, they appear from heaven, as Moses and Elijah did on the Mount of Transfiguration (Matt. 17:3). Old Testament saints had to await Christ’s resurrection before their bodies could be resurrected (1 Cor. 15:20; cf. Matt. 27:53), but their souls went directly to heaven. Christ was the Lamb slain “from the foundation of the world” (Rev. 13:8), and they were there on the merits of what God knew Christ would accomplish. “Descending into the lower parts of the earth” is not a reference to hell, but to the grave. Even a woman’s womb is described as “lowest parts of the earth” (Ps. 139:15). The phrase simply means caves, graves, or enclosures on the earth, as opposed to higher parts, like mountains. Besides, hell itself is not in the lower parts of the earth—it is “under the earth” (Phil. 2:10). The phrase descended into hell was not in the earliest Apostles’ Creed. It was not added until the fourth century. Whenever this phrase was added, the Apostle’s Creed is not inspired—it is only a human confession of faith. The “spirits in prison” were unsaved beings. Indeed, they may be angels, rather than human beings. When Christ “led captivity captive,” he was not leading friends into heaven, but bringing foes into bondage. It is a reference to his conquest of the forces of evil. Christians are not “captives” in heaven. We get there by our own free choice (see Matt. 23:37; 2 Peter 3:9). Even if it could be shown that Jesus visited the spirit world during this time, the Bible is clear that he was not “born again” while there, nor did he gain victory over the devil at that time. Jesus was not a sinner and, therefore, did not need to be born again (cf. John 2:25; 3:3, 6–7). His work for our salvation was completed on the cross (John 19:30; Heb. 1:3; 10:14–15 before he entered the grave. (Geisler, N. L., & Rhodes, R. 1997. When cultists ask : A popular handbook on cultic misinterpretations . Baker Books: Grand Rapids, Mich.) COLOSSIANS 1:18—Was Christ “born again” in hell? MISINTERPRETATION: Word-Faith teachers argue that this verse means that Jesus was “born again” in hell after suffering there for three days. “Jesus was born again—the firstborn from the dead the Word calls Him—and He whipped the devil in his own backyard” (Kenneth Copeland, “The Price of It All,” 1991). CORRECTING THE MISINTERPRETATION: Christ is “firstborn” in the sense that he is the preeminent one over all creation. He wasn’t born again in hell. Indeed, he didn’t need to be born again in any way (John 3:3, 6–7). Besides, Christ never went to hell. See the discussion of Ephesians 4:9 for discussion of the idea that Christ went to hell. (Geisler, N. L., & Rhodes, R. 1997. When cultists ask : A popular handbook on cultic misinterpretations . Baker Books: Grand Rapids, Mich.) "Now secondly, not only do these Health, Wealth preachers and this movement have the wrong God but they have the wrong Jesus, and I want you to listen very carefully to this because it is so important. The Jesus of the Word Faith, the Positive Confession, the Health, Wealth movement is not the Jesus of the Bible, the New Testament. Word Faith teachers say, "Jesus gave up His deity and took on Satan's nature in order to die for our sins." Let me say that again, they say that, "Jesus gave up His deity and took on Satan's nature in order to die for our sins." Kenneth Copeland who is a worldwide proponent of this defends his infamous prophecy that called doubt on the deity of Christ by saying, Why didn't Jesus openly proclaim Himself as God during His 33 years on earth? For one single reason: He hadn't come to earth as God, He had come as man. He seems to be saying that Jesus came only as man and not as God. The Word Faith Jesus often sounds like nothing more than some kind of divinely empowered man. Further, quoting from Kenneth Copeland, Most Christians mistakenly believe that Jesus was able to work wonders, to perform miracles, and to live above sin because He had divine power that we don't have. Thus they have never really aspired to live like He lived. They don't realize that when Jesus came to earth He voluntarily gave up that advantage, living His life here not as God, but as a man. He had no innate supernatural powers, He had no ability to perform miracles until after he was anointed by the Holy Spirit as recorded in Luke 3:22 [that would be at His baptism]. He ministered as a man anointed by the Holy Spirit. These statements tell us that Jesus is divested of His deity. Evidently, it matters little to this system whether Jesus was God or man. Further, Kenneth Copeland writes, "The Spirit of God spoke to me and He said, "A born-again man defeated Satan, the first-born of many brethren defeated him." He said, "You are the very image and the very copy of that one." I said, "Goodness gracious sakes alive!" I began to see what had gone on in there. And I said, "Well, now You don't mean...You couldn't dare mean that I could have done the same thing." And God said, "Oh yeah! If you'd known that...had the knowledge of the Word of God that He did, you could've done the same thing, because you're a reborn man too." And then God said, "The same power that I used to raise Him from the dead, I used to raise you from your death and trespasses and sins. I had to have that copy and that pattern to establish judgment on Satan so that I could recreate a child and a family and a whole new race of mankind." And then God said, "You are in His likeness." Now this is simply saying, to sum it up, "Jesus came into the world not as God but as a man. As a man He died, and then as a reborn man He lived. And, in fact, He wasn't any different then Kenneth Copeland or a lot of other people." That utterance is obviously blasphemous. It is astonishing to me that anyone with the barest knowledge of Biblical truth could accept it as true revelation, but judging from the response to Copeland's ministry and many others who teach the same thing, hundreds of thousands of people believe this, and they are divesting Jesus of His identity. He is the God-man and to say that He is anything less than the God-man is heresy! And again, I mark for you, note carefully, that in cults it is typical to have an aberrant view of Christ. The Word Faith movement also moves on to talk about His Atonement in terms that are utterly unfamiliar to orthodoxy. His sacrificial death on the cross was the primary work our Lord came on earth to accomplish. The atonement is the major emphasis of the whole New Testament and is central to everything we believe and everything that we teach as Christians. Yet the Word Faith movement teaches things about the work of Christ that are absolutely aberrant to the point of blasphemy. Copeland says, "Jesus was the first man to ever be borned [sic] from sin to righteousness. He was the pattern of a new race of men to come. Glory to God! And you know what He did? The very first thing that this reborn man did--See, you have to realize that He died. You have to realize that He went into the pit of hell as a mortal man made sin. But He didn't stay there, thank God. He was reborn in the pit of hell. The righteousness of God was made to be sin. He accepted the sin nature of Satan in His own spirit, and at the moment that He did so, He cried, "My God! My God! Why hast Thou forsaken me?" You don't know what happened at the cross. Why do you think Moses, upon the instruction of God, raised a serpent up on that pole instead of a lamb? That used to bug me. I said, "Why in the world have you got to put that snake up there--the sign of Satan. Why didn't you put a lamb on that pole?" The Lord said, "Because it was the sign of Satan that was hanging on the cross." He said, "I accepted in My own spirit spiritual death, and the light was turned off." Later in that same message Copeland adds, "The Spirit of Jesus accepting that sin, and making it to be sin, He separated from His God, and in that moment, He's a mortal man. Capable of failure. Capable of death. Not only that, He's fixing to be ushered into the Jaws of hell. And if Satan is capable of overpowering Him there, he'll win the universe, and mankind is doomed. Don't get the idea that Jesus was incapable of failure, because if He had been, it would have been illegal." What in the world kind of double talk is this? The idea that Jesus is a man, taking on the nature of Satan, going to hell because He is thrown into the pit of hell as a sinner waiting to be reborn and entering into some kind of mortal combat with Satan and the winner gets the universe. All of that is absolutely foreign to what the New Testament teaches about the atoning work of the God-man. And in fact, Copeland has embraced a heresy known as the Ransom theory of the atonement also, that is an old heresy that basically said God has been held up by Satan and until somebody pays Satan a ransom he is not going to let Jesus go, so God was stuck and He had to pay the ransom price for salvation to Satan. Christ's death was that ransom paid to Satan to settle the legal claim the devil had on the human race because of Adam's sin. That view, by the way, contradicts the clear teaching that Christ's death was a sacrifice offered to God not to Satan, read Ephesians 5:2. Furthermore, Copeland and the Word Faith teachers move outside of orthodoxy and teach that Christ died spiritually. Now we sometimes say that Christ was separated from the Father on the cross and sometimes we say that is a kind of spiritual death, but the reality of it is that Christ did not die spiritually in the sense that His divine spirit went out of existence. It is error to teach that Christ's spirit ceased to exist, "(the light was turned off") he called it. Or, that He was somehow separated from God and became in an instant a mortal man and worse, took on the nature of Satan, was dragged into hell and tormented for three days and three nights. Fred Price who follows up this same kind of teaching, in a newsletter wrote this: "Do you think that the punishment for our sin was to die on a cross? If that were the case, the two thieves could have paid your price. No, the punishment was to go into hell itself and to serve time in hell separated from God. Satan and all the demons of hell thought that they had Him bound and they threw a net over Jesus, and they dragged Him down to the very pit of hell itself to serve our sentence." Two thieves could have paid that price? Could a zillion thieves on a zillion crosses have paid the price of our sins? Obviously not. Jesus' deity and His sinlessness as the only qualified Lamb of God made Him the only person who could have suffered for our sins. To say that it could have been anybody is absolutely ridiculous. You were redeemed with not perishable things, not like silver or gold from your futile way of life inherited from your forefathers but with the precious blood as with a Lamb without blemish and spot. The Lamb Christ, the Blood--His Blood. They are confused about who Christ is, they don't know whether He is God or whether He is man, and they are confused about what happened on the cross, the meaning of the atonement. Copeland also preaches an aberrant view similar to that I noted from Fred Price, quoting Copeland, "Jesus had to go through that same spiritual death in order to pay the price--Now it wasn't the physical death on the cross that paid the price for sins because if it had been, any prophet of God that had died for the last couple of thousand years before that could've paid the price. It wasn't the physical death. Anybody could do that." What they are teaching is that Jesus' death on the cross didn't save us, what happened was, He went into hell and that's where He won our salvation, but that is not what the Scripture says and that is not what Jesus meant when He said, "It is," what? "Finished!" Now behind these very popular teachings of these two men is the teaching of Kenneth Hagin. Kenneth Hagin says, Jesus tasted death--spiritual death--for every man. See sin is more than a physical act it's a spiritual act. And so, He became what we were, that we might become what He is, praise God, and so therefore, His spirit was separated from God. Why did He need to be begotten or born? Because He became like we were, separated from God. Because He tasted spiritual death for every man. And His spirit and inner man went to hell. In my place. Can't you see that? Physical death wouldn't remove your sins. "He's tasted death for every man"--He's talking about tasting spiritual death. Jesus is the first person that was ever born again. Why did His spirit need to be born again? Because it was estranged from God. He has Jesus in a prolonged condition of ceasing to be God and being man alienated from God, in hell, trying to "get His act together" in order that He can be reborn. The Word Faith movement has concocted this strange theology that makes sinners gods and makes the sinless Son of God into a sinner. Such teaching is utterly unbiblical. It demeans our Lord, it demeans His work, as it is obvious to anyone. Furthermore, the atonement did not take place in hell. It was completed on the cross when Jesus said, "It is finished" (recorded in John 19:30). 1 Peter 2:24 says that Christ "bore our sins in His body on the cross," not in hell. Colossians 2:13-14 says He canceled the debt of our sins "and He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross." Ephesians 1:7 says, "We have redemption through His blood, ['blood' here refers to His physical death, the actual shedding of His blood on the cross], the forgiveness of our trespasses" (cf Matt. 26:28; Acts 20:28; Rom. 3:25; 5:9; Eph. 2:13; Col. 1:20; Heb. 9:22; 13:12; 1 Peter 1:19; 1 John 1:7; Rev. 1:5; 5:9). Jesus promised the repentant thief, "Today, you'll be with Me," where? "Paradise," He wasn't in hell for three days. He served notice to hell that the powers of evil were defeated. The Bible knows nothing of the kind of atonement that exists in this Word Faith teaching. The Bible knows nothing about the kind of Jesus they are talking about either. They have the wrong God and the wrong Jesus." (Dr. John MacArthur, "Charasmatic Chaos," page 336-342)
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#1. To: All, jhoffa_ (#0)
What ya think? What ya think about preachers who preach this?
Don't Steal the government hates competition!!!
Not much. If it isn't in the Scriptures; it is hogwash. Jesus warned about deception...evidently, very few are paying any attention to His words. That, in and of itself, fulfills prophecy.
I used to go to a church that preached this nonsense. Key word "used to"
Error of opinion may be tolerated where reason is left free to combat it.
Even Art Bell would have trouble taking Copeland or the Crouchs seriously.
This seems to be a common position of the "word of faith" churches. Why do you think they share this common denominator?
Error of opinion may be tolerated where reason is left free to combat it.
Common denominator = Satan, who has granted them wealth and power. Unfortunately for them, that will be coming to an end sooner than they think.
Do you think they are all satanists? Or are some perhaps just wrong?
Error of opinion may be tolerated where reason is left free to combat it.
Not sure I'd call them satanists, per se. However, it is clear to me that they are deliberately deceiving people in order to gain wealth and control over them...hardly followers of Jesus Christ.
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