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Religion
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Title: Voice of the White House (on the rapture)
Source: TBR news
URL Source: http://www.tbrnews.org/Archives/a2027.htm
Published: Dec 11, 2005
Author: Voice of the WH
Post Date: 2005-12-13 19:10:16 by Zipporah
Keywords: rapture), Voice, White
Views: 219
Comments: 11

December 11, 2005: “Two days ago, a fanatical Bush supporter from amongst the staff at the Monkey Palace, cornered me in the cafeteria with the fiercely joyful news that she was leaving the White House. I assumed that, like a growing number of disillusioned staff persons, she was getting better employment elsewhere, such as the Humane Society’s Kitten-Gassing commando or our very own District Sanitation Department, Minority Free Lunch Division, but no, she advised me that Rapture was coming soon and she and her entire family were “going to see Jesus” in person! There used to be quite a bit of that sort of blather around here but of late it is getting very muted. Since I had no historical background in the subject, I looked it up and have come to some very specific and clear cut views on the subject. I will share these with you now although there is always the possibility that I might be wrong and truly Be Left Behind.

‘The Rapture’ is a term most commonly used to describe an event in certain systems of Christian eschatology whereby “all true Christians are taken from Earth by God into Heaven.” Although almost all forms of Christianity believe that those who are "saved" will enter the Kingdom of Heaven, the term "rapture" is usually applied specifically to those theories saying that “Christians alive before the end of the world will be taken into heaven,” and there will be an intermediate time frame where non-Christians will be still left on earth before “Christ arrives to set up his earthly kingdom.”

The word "Rapture" is not found in the Bible. There is also no single word used by the biblical authors to describe the prophetic factors which comprise the doctrine. Roman Catholics and nearly all of the main-line Protestants do not accept the concept of a rapture in which some are "taken up into Heaven" before the end of the world; this idea did not exist in the teachings of any Christians whatsoever until the late18th, and early 19th centuries, so it cannot be said to belong to Apostolic tradition.

The legend of the Rapture is not mentioned in any Christian writings, until after the year 1830. Whether the early writers were Greek or Latin, Armenian or Coptic, Syrian or Ethiopian, English or German, orthodox or heretic, no one mentioned a syllable about it. Of course, those who feel the origin of the teaching is in the Bible would say that it only ceased being taught (for some unknown reason) at the close of the apostolic age only to reappear in 1830 But if the doctrine were so clearly stated in Scripture, it seems incredible that no one should have referred to it before the 19th and early 20th century. This does not, in and of itself prove conclusively that the story is wrong, but it does mean that thousands of eminent scholars and theologians who lived over a span of seventeen centuries (including some of the most astute of the religious scholars of the early Christian and, later of the Reformation and post-Reformation periods) must be considered as grossly incompetent for not having either knowledge or understanding of a teaching viewed by fringe religious groups as so central to their beliefs. This lapse of seventeen centuries, when no one mentioned anything about it, is certainly a serious obstacle to its reliability or its acceptance by the less credulous.

One of the strongest, and less appetizing, proponents of this theory was one Charles Fox Parham. Charles Parham was born in 1873, became a preacher by age 14/15, Charles Parham was a racist, becoming a full-fledged member of the KKK by 1910. Parham was also arrested for “repeated and carnal sexual indiscretions” with young boys. Parham was the first Pentecostal preacher to pray over handkerchiefs and mail them to those who desired his ministrations . Naturally, Parham charged money for these energized handkerchiefs.

In 1908 Parham raised funds from among his deluded parishioners to travel to the Holy Land on an “archaeological expedition to search for the lost ark of the covenant.” He claimed to the press that he had information about its location and that his finding the ark would fit into the end times biblical scheme. By December he announced that he had sufficient funds and he traveled to New York allegedly to begin his journey to Jerusalem. He never purchased a ticket to the Middle East and returned home dejectedly in January, claiming he was robbed after arriving in New York. His parishioners had been robbed somewhat earlier.

Naturally, I have no intention of communicating my findings on this hilarious subject to my fellow worker. Seeing the on-going ruination of the God-intoxicated

George W. (‘Fuck-the-Constitution”) Bush before her very eyes is more than enough for such a dim-wit to have to deal with. We ought not to dishonor the dead.”

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Begin Trace Mode for Comment # 9.

#2. To: A K A Stone (#0)

FYI

Zipporah  posted on  2005-12-13   19:23:27 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#4. To: Zipporah (#2)

Your so thoughtful to ping me. Thanks. I don't believe in a pre-trib rapture. I believe that Matthew Chapter 24 makes that pretty clear. I think that some people use the scriptures concerning the second coming and try to make it into two events. If this were the case in Matthew 24 Jesus wouldn't have warned his followers to pray that it doesn't happen in the winter. There are other reasons but I'm not going to point them all out.

A K A Stone  posted on  2005-12-13   23:46:46 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#7. To: A K A Stone (#4)

The short version of what I was always taught. Christ came once to die for sins and to be resurrected (sic). Christ will come again prior to the Tribulation in the rapture to take away His church. Christ will come again at the end of the period of Tribulation (7 years) to establish a 1000 year reign, after which the Devil will be loosed for an unspecified time after which Christ will come again and destroy the Devil at Armagedden.

What I have come to know. Outside of the first statement regarding Christ coming once for His Passion, Christ is returning three separate times. The Word of God knows no such thing. Christendom has generally held one of two things: that either the 1000 years is a symbol for a perfect amount of time the devil is prevented from attempting to destroy the church until he is loosed for a period of great tribulation after which Christ returns and the church is raptured, or that at some point a great tribulation will occur after which Christ raptures the church and establishes a literal 1000 year reign after which the devil is destroyed at Armagedden. My limited understanding is the former is mostly the Eastern view and the latter is mostly a Roman one. I think any reading of the Church Fathers will lead one to conclude one of these two thoughts. The Eastern Church still guards the book of Revelation with much caution, mystery and if I may so bold as to say apprehension because it has been a contested book over the centuries. It is the only book in the Bible not read in the Orthodox Church. During services (Liturgies, Vespers, etc) all the books of the Bible are chanted (read) out of over a period of time. Revelation is not read because of what I mention above. Revelation speaks to things present, things past and yet to come. It is symbolic and literal. Sometimes it is all five at the same time. To say we have an exact understanding of it I think borders on the arrogant.

I think the pre-tribulation rapture belief has led to unfortunate consequences. We are seeing people (sometimes very powerful ones) who are actively working to bring about the events which they think will lead to the rapture. And the ends justify the means. No cost to high, no sacrifice to great. Whatever lives must be lost and whatever unions must be made to make this happen. The other consequence that I have seen among friends, family members and through general observations, is an apathy concerning current events be they religious, political, etc. It can be best summed up: these things are happening to bring about the rapture, the end times, who am I to question God and who I am to stand in the way of what is supposed to happen according to what I have been taught my whole life?

scooter  posted on  2005-12-14   0:36:32 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#8. To: scooter, Starwind, A K A Stone (#7)

I think the pre-tribulation rapture belief has led to unfortunate consequences. We are seeing people (sometimes very powerful ones) who are actively working to bring about the events which they think will lead to the rapture. And the ends justify the means. No cost to high, no sacrifice to great. Whatever lives must be lost and whatever unions must be made to make this happen. The other consequence that I have seen among friends, family members and through general observations, is an apathy concerning current events be they religious, political, etc. It can be best summed up: these things are happening to bring about the rapture, the end times, who am I to question God and who I am to stand in the way of what is supposed to happen according to what I have been taught my whole life?

Good analysis, and IMO, there is nothing scriptural about their response. There are plenty of verses about doing good and seeking peace. "Only the Father knows the hour" verse seems to have become "Only the pre-tribs know the hour" and they actually think God wants them to facilitate their intrepretation of the end times. Very dangerous thinking that is not found anywhere in the Scriptures.

I posted this on another thread last week:

Not all of Protestant Christianity is absorbed in the rapture. The Presbyterians are boycotting Israeli goods and see the end times differently.

This is a very sensible approach to eschatology (it's more like what I was taught in my Baptist Sunday School):

To those obsessed with trying to work out a timetable for Christ's return, Presbyterians say, "Only God knows, but God has given us important work to do in the meantime."

The Lutherans also interpret the rapture differently.

The Methodists also do not interpret the rapture in the recently popularized way.

And of course Catholics and Episcopalians do not believe in the rapture.

I've noticed those who teach a second baptism for talking in tongues, are very emotional kinds of evangelical churches. And, they also tend to be very absorbed in the rapture and the end times in general. Which, IMO, is an unhealthy indicator.

robin  posted on  2005-12-14   11:22:32 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#9. To: robin (#8)

Yes, it is generally best to avoid labels and stick to facts.

And sadly, most "denominations" and "doctrinal pureists" have factionalized along ideological lines ranging from political to theological, and most of them carry a lot of baggage into what should be predominantly biblical discussions.

It's one thing to criticize a politician's actions or viewpoint and hold them to a biblical standard. But it's quite another matter altogether to use that same politician's heresy as biblical standard.

There are all too few Bereans any more.

Starwind  posted on  2005-12-14   12:27:47 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


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