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Title: Go Bowe!
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URL Source: http://www.lewrockwell.com/2014/06/karen-kwiatkowski/go-bowe/
Published: Jun 4, 2014
Author: Karen Kwiatkowski
Post Date: 2014-06-04 08:42:27 by Ada
Keywords: None
Views: 995
Comments: 74
The Gitmo prisoner swap that sent Bowe Bergdahl into the loving arms of the psych ward at Landstuhl Military Hospital near Ramstein AB, Germany is in the news. The swap is viewed by the Republican Party establishment, in an election year, as an Obama media diversion from delicious and well-deserved dereliction of duty charges against the Veterans Administration. Republicans are also unhappy, and neoconservatives particularly so, because it signals the public end of the end in Afghanistan — an endless play-war for the United States government that all but evaporated from the mind of the American public several years ago. In an age of economic contraction, average Americans see no reason to pay for Afghanistan any longer, absent some sign of benefit, some visible victory. Neocons may insist that absence of victory in not evidence of the absence of victory, but I think by now, even Don Rumsfeld gets the picture. Just as for the Soviets, Afghanistan has been a USG-directed waste of trillions of dollars, millions of Afghan lives, and hundreds of thousands of American lives and families damaged or ruined by a soldier’s service in uniform. Some neoconservative hawks like fellow POW Lt John McCain, who ended his active duty career by being shot down while bombing rice paddies in another foreign country, in another unpopular war, after wrecking two fighter planes and playing a role in the deadly fire on the USS Forrestal in 1967, are extremely angry about bringing home Sgt Bowe Bergdahl. Here is a POW who is a nobody with the nerve to question an overseas war, in the face of evidence that the US government was lying to soldiers, and to the American public. McCain was always a somebody, and he has never had the nerve to question government policy unless he saw a political gain in doing so. Curiously, many in the right would gladly support Obama’s policies if a midwestern Republican were implementing them. These same folks took pride in the Bush II era, yet are totally offended by Obama’s identical foreign policy, his identical pernicious domestic meddling and state growth. It isn’t racism, but it may be harder to fix. Most of what passes for the political right as a movement doesn’t even understand what they stand for. They don’t understand fundamentals of federalism and limited government, they don’t understand the language and motivations of the founders, and they lack the kind of self- awareness that might allow them to question why they feel there is such a difference between a George W and Barack H. Had President Bush conducted this prisoner exchange, brokered by Qatar or even his friends in Saudi Arabia, I imagine the spin would be a bit different from the raging superpatriots on the neocon left and right. I’m sure we would find (after the fact) that Bush had in fact consulted with members of Congress privately, and that the return of the dangerous Talibani to Afghanistan (a year from now (?), after being held by a US-friendly khanate) was actually a great strategy to ensure that the USG would have another stick with which to beat the post-Karzai government into signing a status of forces agreement that allows US troops to stay in country and do what they and (the military establishment and global banking elite) want. What? Is Obama a political genius — with impeccable timing, and a boldness that even his enemies would admire? I mean, no less than Dick Cheney just called Obama the weakest president ever — and then the sly politico openly bucks a Congressional rule about a legal netherworld of Guantanamo and its inmates, who in fact are not POWs, but detainees, because no war was ever declared, and as Washington well knows, these prisoners have been found not to be subject to Geneva Convention rights, precisely because they are not prisoners of war. And war, whether on terrorism or poppy growers, or a political sector of a foreign country, is not the correct legal term — but I guess words mean whatever we want them to mean, in this fantasy world of political rules and niceties, of tortured limbs and tortured logic. But back to Bowe Bergdahl. I worry more about him today in the hands of the USG, in this post-Wikileaks and post-Edward Snowden world than I ever did when he was in the mountains of Afghanistan and Pakistan. Bowe, home-schooled, raised with an ethical spine, and informed by classical and worldly readings, had already become disillusioned by the lies and the falsity of what our soldiers were being asked to do in Afghanistan. His disillusionment would find flight in his words, and if it is true that he walked away, in his actions that would inspire many if widely known. When one can observe and measure the world around him or her, and articulate what he sees, and can use language and logic to explore what it all means, this is a gift, rarely seen. The soldier poet, the veteran who becomes a worker of words to deal with what he has seen and perceived about power, and love, and hate and war, politics and human beings – this solder and this veteran are extremely valuable. But because they can tell the truth and speak it nobly, if the truth they speak goes against the desires of the state, or falsifies a state fairy tale, these men and women become dangerous. I don’t know Bowe. But when I read the letters Bowe wrote home five years ago, I see the simple words of a brave thinker. He is in a class of men who use language and live their lives in service to honesty and personal integrity. This is rare, and when it is found, the hacks and sycophants of governments everywhere become enraged. In fact, the loud collective hysteria of the hacks and sycophants is quite helpful in identifying those we should be listening to, and learning from. karen head shot benchThe existence of one Bowe Bergdahl speaking the truth will undercut ten statist thinktanks, a hundred neoconservative op ed writers, a thousand GOP and Democratic warmongering strategists, and can soothe the minds of millions of Americans who sense the truth but cannot articulate it. Bowe is not safe in the hands of the military, where men with guns and men with medical degrees all serve the state, with too much obedience and too little honor. I hope his time with the debriefers and the government psychiatrists is short. If Bowe gets home and is allowed to live his life, it will be the right thing, and I’m keeping my fingers crossed. If this episode leads to more discussion of the legal and Catch-22 status of Gitmo and the utter inability of anyone there to get a legitimate trial, or to be released without controversy, that would be good. If it leads to a deeper discussion of the real nature of the evil the USG has been doing in Afghanistan for the past decade, and more awareness of Afghan politics today, that’s fine. And, if due to Washington politics and reactive anger by war lovers some aspect of this case leads to an impeachment of the President, after we’ve seen so many impeachable offenses that never motivated the Republican House to act, well, that would be icing on the cake.
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#35. To: abraxas (#33)
Bergdahl signed a contract with the Army. The US military is not a travel agency. A person cannot sign a contract with the military "to try things out." He was age 23 at the time of the contract, not exactly a babe who was wet behind his ears. He knew he would be deployed to Afghanistan. In fact he prepared for the deployment by learning Pashto ( Afghan main language) and by studying Russian military plans. He was expert marksman. He knew he would be using that military skill in a blood and gore capacity in Afghanistan. He wasn't deploying to Afghanistan to teach the locals ballet. 4um is a free speech board wherein a variety of opinions/judgments/discussions about news items - often political in nature- take place 24/7. 4um posters (including myself and yourself) make judgements on a host of topics without having "to walk in the subject's shoes." Why is Bergdahl so special, that 4um posters' opinions are suddenly considered untoward, inappropriate, disrespectful by some? Bergdahl is a political news story, just like any other that discussed here.
The other soldiers he was there with said he is not a hero, that he deserted. Are they liars? If they are telling the truth, and I don't know what reason they would have to lie, he put them at risk. Do they have any right to judge his actions? The ones I have heard talk, to a man, do NOT call him a hero--the kindest thing they say about him is that he was a deserter if not a traitor/collaborator. Americans who have no experience with, or knowledge of, tyranny believe that only terrorists will experience the unchecked power of the state. They will believe this until it happens to them, or their children, or their friends. Paul Craig Roberts "When plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men living together in society, they create for themselves in the course of time a legal system that authorizes it and a moral code that glorifies it." Frederic Bastiat
Judgements????? Whatever, lets satisfy the blood lust aboard, hang the kid. Lets buy the rope and wait for one of our members willing to open the trap door? Surely we have stalwarts willing to do that???? Myself I am willing to let those holding his contract decide his faith. If they decide to hang, so be it. Not up to me. Opinions are one thing, we all have them, judgements, I do not have any of those, above my pay grade.
Lets buy the rope and wait for one of our members willing to open the trap door? Opinions are one thing, we all have them, judgements, I do not have any of those, above my pay grade. How sanctimonious of you to claim you don't make judgements on the one hand, but the the other you demonstrate clearly by your words that you've made judgements about 4um posters who have criticized Bengdahl's actions. People who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones is an adage that comes to mind.
Our illustrious CIC has already decided his fate; He has sent Susan Rice out into the public to anchor the narrative that Bergdahl had served with “honor and distinction.” Who are we to question Obama & Rice?
Yes, we have here say regarding the matter. Maybe these soldiers did not like him or they speculate or they saw the incident in a certain way. That doesn't make it true. He walked off. We do NOT know his intent. What evidence is there that he was a traitor/collaborator? The fact that he did not want to kill more Afgans? He walked away but we do not know his intent or his state of mind. And, for the record, I have not called him a hero. I said he followed his conscience, which is certainly a rarity. " If you cannot govern yourself, you will be governed by assholes. " Randge, Poet de Forum, 1/11/11 "Life's tough, and even tougher if you're stupid." --John Wayne
No, it's hear say when it comes from a third party. I heard the soldiers being interviewed. Whatever the case, I am not going to waste any more time on it. Susan Rice and Bammy thinks he is the greatest thing since sliced bread and will probably be referring to him as a "hero" soon enough. Tells me all I need to know about him. Americans who have no experience with, or knowledge of, tyranny believe that only terrorists will experience the unchecked power of the state. They will believe this until it happens to them, or their children, or their friends. Paul Craig Roberts "When plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men living together in society, they create for themselves in the course of time a legal system that authorizes it and a moral code that glorifies it." Frederic Bastiat
I think that, either way, it was the right thing to do to bring the guy home. Trading 5 prisoners held without conviction or likely even charges is good too. It's a disgrace this nation holds them in GITMO indefinitely without a trial. " If you cannot govern yourself, you will be governed by assholes. " Randge, Poet de Forum, 1/11/11 "Life's tough, and even tougher if you're stupid." --John Wayne
Most everything done by this fedgov in the last 60 years is a disgrace and a crime of one sort or another. imo
“The most dangerous man to any government is the man who is able to think things out... without regard to the prevailing superstitions and taboos. Almost inevitably he comes to the conclusion that the government he lives under is dishonest, insane, intolerable.” ~ H. L. Mencken
Perhaps you should read up on the 5 prisoners Messiah released before you conclude that it was a "good" thing to do. Not all Muslims are pure as the driven snow. www.weeklystandard.com/bl...change_794017.html?page=2 snip The Taliban has long demanded that the “Gitmo 5” be released in order for peace talks to begin in earnest...There are good reasons why the Taliban has long wanted the five freed from Gitmo. All five are among the Taliban’s top commanders in U.S. custody and are still revered in jihadist circles. Two of the five have been wanted by the UN for war crimes. And because of their prowess, Joint Task Force-Guantanamo (JTF-GTMO) deemed all five of them “high” risks to the U.S. and its allies... Here are short bios for each of the five Taliban commanders. All quotes are drawn from declassified and leaked documents prepared at Guantanamo. Mullah Mohammad Fazl (Taliban army chief of staff): Fazl is “wanted by the UN for possible war crimes including the murder of thousands of Shiites.” Fazl “was associated with terrorist groups currently opposing U.S. and Coalition forces including al Qaeda, Islamic Movement of Uzbekistan (IMU), Hezb-e-Islami Gulbuddin (HIG), and an Anti-Coalition Militia group known as Harakat-i-Inqilab-i-Islami.” In addition to being one of the Taliban’s most experienced military commanders, Fazl worked closely with a top al Qaeda commander named Abdul Hadi al Iraqi, who headed al Qaeda’s main fighting unit in Afghanistan prior to 9/11 and is currently detained at Guantanamo. Mullah Norullah Noori (senior Taliban military commander): Like Fazl, Noori is “wanted by the United Nations (UN) for possible war crimes including the murder of thousands of Shiite Muslims.” Beginning in the mid-1990s, Noori “fought alongside al Qaeda as a Taliban military general, against the Northern alliance.” He continued to work closely with al Qaeda in the years that followed. Abdul Haq Wasiq (Taliban deputy minister of intelligence): Wasiq arranged for al Qaeda members to provide crucial intelligence training prior to 9/11. The training was headed by Hamza Zubayr, an al Qaeda instructor who was killed during the same September 2002 raid that netted Ramzi Binalshibh, the point man for the 9/11 operation. Wasiq “was central to the Taliban's efforts to form alliances with other Islamic fundamentalist groups to fight alongside the Taliban against U.S. and Coalition forces after the 11 September 2001 attacks,” according to a leaked JTF-GTMO threat assessment. Khairullah Khairkhwa (Taliban governor of the Herat province and former interior minister): Khairkhwa was the governor of Afghanistan’s westernmost province prior to 9/11. In that capacity, he executed sensitive missions for Mullah Omar, including helping to broker a secret deal with the Iranians. For much of the pre-9/11 period, Iran and the Taliban were bitter foes. But a Taliban delegation that included Kharikhwa helped secure Iran’s support for the Taliban’s efforts against the American-led coalition in late 2001. JTF-GTMO found that Khairkhwa was likely a major drug trafficker and deeply in bed with al Qaeda. He allegedly oversaw one of Osama bin Laden’s training facilities in Herat. Mohammed Nabi (senior Taliban figure and security official): Nabi “was a senior Taliban official who served in multiple leadership roles.” Nabi “had strong operational ties to Anti-Coalition Militia (ACM) groups including al Qaeda, the Taliban, the Haqqani Network, and the Hezb-e-Islami Gulbuddin (HIG), some of whom remain active in ACM activities.” Intelligence cited in the JTF-GTMO files indicates that Nabi held weekly meetings with al Qaeda operatives to coordinate attacks against U.S.-led forces.
Since al Qaeda is a CIA/Mossad creation of near 40 years (we founded, funded, armed, and have done so 'till today) I don't care what they do when they get back home. Like buckwheat here, they'll just be following orders. As someone observed, the way to stop terrorism is to stop participating. “The most dangerous man to any government is the man who is able to think things out... without regard to the prevailing superstitions and taboos. Almost inevitably he comes to the conclusion that the government he lives under is dishonest, insane, intolerable.” ~ H. L. Mencken
I wouldn't care either except for the fact that that the US still has boots on the ground over there, who will be put at risk when these 5 high level Taliban commanders get back home.
Let's stop participating.
“The most dangerous man to any government is the man who is able to think things out... without regard to the prevailing superstitions and taboos. Almost inevitably he comes to the conclusion that the government he lives under is dishonest, insane, intolerable.” ~ H. L. Mencken
Absolutely. But imho first the US should get US soldiers in foreign lands out of harms way.
Correct. Declare VICTORY! and leave. Let the merchants of death find another way to make money. “The most dangerous man to any government is the man who is able to think things out... without regard to the prevailing superstitions and taboos. Almost inevitably he comes to the conclusion that the government he lives under is dishonest, insane, intolerable.” ~ H. L. Mencken
Gee, if there is so much evidence and they are so terrible......WHY NOT TRY THEM AND CONVICT THEM? You think it is okay to hold people indefinitely with no trial? Besides we are not a war with the Taliban, who at one time we armed, we are after Al Quada...the data base of "terrorists" created by the CIA so that we can have perpetual war. Every one that is held with no trial should be shipped out. Try them, convict them, sentence them.....at one time that was the American Way. " If you cannot govern yourself, you will be governed by assholes. " Randge, Poet de Forum, 1/11/11 "Life's tough, and even tougher if you're stupid." --John Wayne
Wow that sounds so easy. Why hasn't anyone else come up with that plan?
He didn't join the Peace Corps, he joined the United States Army, and they're all about killing. If he didn't like the leadership in his outfit then that was his opportunity to step up and go for a leadership position. The army never held back a man who was gung-ho. All through his training, he was constantly told "When you get to Ashcanistan do this/look out for that/don't do this/ad nauseum". Desertion is never an option once you sign on the dotted line and raise your right hand and swear that oath. As much as I disapprove the presence of our troops "over there", he deserted. He's got to face a court martial for that offense, and the army should, rightfully, throw the book at him. He's damn lucky that he's not facing a firing squad perched upon a wooden coffin built just for him.
#36. To: abraxas (#32)
I did not walk a mile in his military issue boots, therefore I cannot fully comprehend or dare to judge the actions taken.
#37. To: scrapper2 (#35)
4um is a free speech board wherein a variety of opinions/judgments/discussions about news items
#38. To: Cynicom (#37)
lets satisfy the blood lust aboard, hang the kid.
#39. To: Cynicom, 4 (#37)
Myself I am willing to let those holding his contract decide his faith.
#40. To: James Deffenbach (#36)
The other soldiers he was there with said
#41. To: abraxas (#40)
Yes, we have here say regarding the matter.
#42. To: James Deffenbach (#41)
Susan Rice and Bammy thinks he is the greatest thing since sliced bread and will probably be referring to him as a "hero" soon enough. Tells me all I need to know about him.
#43. To: abraxas (#42)
#44. To: abraxas (#42)
Trading 5 prisoners held without conviction or likely even charges is good too.
#45. To: scrapper2, 4 (#44)
#46. To: Lod (#45)
I don't care what they do when they get back home.
#47. To: scrapper2 (#46)
#48. To: Lod (#47)
Let's stop participating.
#49. To: scrapper2 (#48)
#50. To: scrapper2 (#44)
#51. To: abraxas (#50)
Every one that is held with no trial should be shipped out. Try them, convict them, sentence them.....at one time that was the American Way.
#52. To: abraxas (#32)
He would not be the first to learn clarity from experience rather than prior investigation
-Alex Kurtagic
#53. To: scrapper2, abraxas, Cynicom (#51)
The Nuremberg standards are impossible and hypocritical. In that light what do we convict the worst of them of committing? I say send them back to their countries of origin with whatever documentation they've got and leave it to their home jurisdictions. If they won't have them, make acceptance of a proportionate number of random prisoners required for bringing in a country's own people whom they want back. Who ever thought of collecting these people because they were willing to take up arms against NATO and the US or whatever anti-western activities they've been engaged in wasn't thinking very far ahead. Each one of these individuals is a thorn in the side of a million sympathizers around the world. Without a speedy trial it's a pox on our "nation of laws." Try them, convict them, sentence them.....at one time that was the American Way.
#54. To: abraxas (#50)
Yes. Bush should have left office with on-going trials for the men who were there during his administration, at the very least. If there is enough evidence to hold them, then the evidence should hold up in a trial. Otherwise, there's big problems down in Cuba. Try them, convict them, sentence them.....at one time that was the American Way.
-Alex Kurtagic
#55. To: ALL (#30)
Here is an interview with two of Bergdahl's platoon mates. I watched 7 of them interviewed tonight and I will post that when it becomes available. All 7 of them say he is a deserter, not a hero, and should be courtmartialed.
To question is to value the ideal of truth more highly than the loyalties to nation, religion, race, or ideology.
#56. To: christine (#55)
I watched that too, Christine. They all said they would like to ask him "Why?" That is understandable. And yeah, they all did agree that he should be court martialed.
Americans who have no experience with, or knowledge of, tyranny believe that only terrorists will experience the unchecked power of the state. They will believe this until it happens to them, or their children, or their friends. Paul Craig Roberts
"When plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men living together in society, they create for themselves in the course of time a legal system that authorizes it and a moral code that glorifies it." Frederic Bastiat
#57. To: James Deffenbach (#56)
Their point about the danger he put his platoon mates who went in search of him was compelling. That is why they are angry. Were 6 of them killed? I thought I heard that.
To question is to value the ideal of truth more highly than the loyalties to nation, religion, race, or ideology.
#58. To: christine (#57)
It is my understanding that six were killed in the search for him.
Americans who have no experience with, or knowledge of, tyranny believe that only terrorists will experience the unchecked power of the state. They will believe this until it happens to them, or their children, or their friends. Paul Craig Roberts
"When plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men living together in society, they create for themselves in the course of time a legal system that authorizes it and a moral code that glorifies it." Frederic Bastiat
#59. To: scrapper2 (#51)
What is stopping them? The evidence is so darn overwhelming after all. They have held them for years with no due process. Seriously, that's okay with you? Also, the profiles are written after they have them in custody to justify the custody in the first place. That really isn't evidence. Perhaps that is why they have not tried them in the courts. Wow that sounds so easy. Why hasn't anyone else come up with that plan?
" If you cannot govern yourself, you will be governed by assholes. " Randge, Poet de Forum, 1/11/11
"Life's tough, and even tougher if you're stupid." --John Wayne
#60. To: abraxas (#59)
Were there any evidence, they would have been tried. It's all a criminal joke.
“The most dangerous man to any government is the man who is able to think things out... without regard to the prevailing superstitions and taboos. Almost inevitably he comes to the conclusion that the government he lives under is dishonest, insane, intolerable.” ~ H. L. Mencken
#61. To: abraxas (#59)
I think it's a bit more complicated legally speaking than what you may think.
#62. To: scrapper2 (#61)
In the history of court cases, it has never been difficult if you have the evidence to convict. Sheesh, evidence is often made up and altered to convict. What is not in alignment with the history of court cases is holding people INDEFINITELY with no trial and conviction. That's what commie nations would do. That's okay with you? And, how many years do you think it should take to make it less "complicated" to get the defendants into court? Decades? Just let them die without every having a trial? I think it's a bit more complicated legally speaking than what you may think.
" If you cannot govern yourself, you will be governed by assholes. " Randge, Poet de Forum, 1/11/11
"Life's tough, and even tougher if you're stupid." --John Wayne
#63. To: Lod (#60)
Precisely. What is criminal is holding them indefinitely with no due process. Were there any evidence, they would have been tried.
" If you cannot govern yourself, you will be governed by assholes. " Randge, Poet de Forum, 1/11/11
"Life's tough, and even tougher if you're stupid." --John Wayne
#64. To: abraxas (#63)
Fyi there are only 134 prisoners at Gitmo as of May 2014. Some countries don't want their guys re-patriated. Some prisoners do not want to be re-patriated. It's a complicated situation for all concerned. online.wsj.com/news/artic...3562904579226473966500590 snip Human-rights activists who have called to close Guantanamo said it was improper to transfer detainees against their will. "When you hear people say they would rather spend the rest of their lives in Guantanamo than go to a particular place, you have to take that seriously," said Andrea Prasow, a counterterrorism counsel with Human Rights Watch. What is criminal is holding them indefinitely with no due process.
#65. To: Deasy (#53)
Excellent. Who ever thought of collecting these people because they were willing to take up arms against NATO and the US or whatever anti-western activities they've been engaged in wasn't thinking very far ahead. Each one of these individuals is a thorn in the side of a million sympathizers around the world. Without a speedy trial it's a pox on our "nation of laws."
#66. To: scrapper2 (#64)
Some prisoners do not want to be re-patriated. "When you hear people say they would rather spend the rest of their lives in Guantanamo than go to a particular place, you have to take that seriously," said Andrea Prasow, a counterterrorism counsel with Human Rights Watch. That does not answer the question of holding them indefinitely without a trial. If they are citizens of another country, deliver them and let them figure out the stinking re-repatriation aspects. It's bs that the lot of them in GITMO are not being tried because of the "human rights" of these people. Do you buy this baloney and believe they have no right to due process and a trial? Does this explain why so many of them are attempting to starve themselves to death? It's okay that would rather die than remain in GITMO because the "human rights" concerning sending them back are so important? Isn't the right to a trial for crimes you are SUSPECTED of committing a right? It is according to our bill of rights....or it used to be and the argument that they deserve no trial because they are not citizens is hypocritical and a farce. Some countries don't want their guys re-patriated.
" If you cannot govern yourself, you will be governed by assholes. " Randge, Poet de Forum, 1/11/11
"Life's tough, and even tougher if you're stupid." --John Wayne
#67. To: scrapper2 (#64)
Wall Street Journal.......propaganda arm for the US war machine. Remember, they were supporting the idiocy of WMD's to get us into Iraq and they support every other feeble excuse to go to war in any nation at any time for any reason. Of course, they have a vested interest in protecting the massive amounts of money that bankers make in perpetual war, no matter the civilians killed or the human rights of any people. wsj.com
" If you cannot govern yourself, you will be governed by assholes. " Randge, Poet de Forum, 1/11/11
"Life's tough, and even tougher if you're stupid." --John Wayne
#68. To: abraxas (#66)
Take a deep breath. I gave you examples of complicated issues. I would have thought you'd think human rights issues are important. Don't they go hand in hand with habeas corpus legal rights? Gitmo will be shut down in the near future due to a previous Supreme Court decision. So you can rejoice that all these Gitmo innocents will be set free. Some will likely file asylum requests so we'll have them stateside collecting welfare. It's okay that would rather die than remain in GITMO because the "human rights" concerning sending them back are so important?
#69. To: abraxas (#67)
Uh huh. So now in your mind citing wsj is a no no? What sources meet your approval? Mother Jones? Huff Post? Daily Kos? Give me a break. You give no sources for your breathless remarks. I cite sources and you kick them to the curb because you don't like them. Much better to just rant and rave personal "feelings," eh? Wall Street Journal.......propaganda arm for the US war machine.
#70. To: scrapper2 (#68)
So you can rejoice that all these Gitmo innocents will be set free. The examples skirt the very straight forward question. Yes, free....after years held with no trial. Does that right the wrong? Would that be good enough for you if it were your friend or family being held for years with no trial? You see, the way we treat them is an indication of how far the government is willing to go in treating citizens as well. That is the problem with the slippery slope of no due process and indefinite detention. Of course, those FEMA camps are only to help you out in natural disasters.... Full circle to the original question: Is it wrong to indefinitely detain people with no trail? I gave you examples of complicated issues.
" If you cannot govern yourself, you will be governed by assholes. " Randge, Poet de Forum, 1/11/11
"Life's tough, and even tougher if you're stupid." --John Wayne
#71. To: abraxas (#70)
Of course it's wrong. But reversing the wrong is not as simple as you may think it to be. Is it wrong to indefinitely detain people with no trail?
#72. To: scrapper2 (#71)
Yes, it is. That is why you are granted the right to a speedy trial when you are accused of a crime. Why is it good for you and an essential right for you, but not applicable to others? The solution is to treat others as you would want to be treated. Had this been done, there would be no wringing of hands of years and years of wrong to be reversed. However, it is never to late to do the right thing, unless of course you are the government or banking institution or corporate monopoly....then you can keep dragging it out and simply bury the story and ensure the controlled media continually diverts attention from the issue. People seem to be okay with that and gobble up the propaganda that justifies the ongoing wrong. But reversing the wrong is not as simple as you may think it to be.
" If you cannot govern yourself, you will be governed by assholes. " Randge, Poet de Forum, 1/11/11
"Life's tough, and even tougher if you're stupid." --John Wayne
#73. To: Lod, 5 (#60)
About the Taliban Five. How many tiny GPS chips do you suppose were crammed up their asses before their release? I'm going with an even dozen.
#74. To: Jethro Tull (#73)
Equally possible is that they had uranium pellets implanted - I put nothing past the turds in this regime, nothing.
“The most dangerous man to any government is the man who is able to think things out... without regard to the prevailing superstitions and taboos. Almost inevitably he comes to the conclusion that the government he lives under is dishonest, insane, intolerable.” ~ H. L. Mencken
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