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Title: Airline whistleblower solves 9/11
Source: [None]
URL Source: http://www.veteranstoday.com/2015/01/31/airline911/
Published: Feb 2, 2015
Author: Kevin Barrett
Post Date: 2015-02-02 18:45:43 by christine
Keywords: None
Views: 3731
Comments: 84

The truth-seeking community – and the airline industry – are abuzz over Rebekah Roth’s new book Methodical Illusion. It’s poised to break into the top 1,000 worldwide, selling so fast that Amazon may even have tried to stop its rise to bestseller status by falsely claiming “sorry, out of stock.”

We’ve seen this situation before…such as on September 8th, 2013, when the RT documentary 9/11 and Operation Gladio started to go viral and suddenly disappeared from search engines – as emails containing its url began falling into a big black hole in cyberspace.

So what’s all the excitement about? Why would the people whose job is to “disable the purveyors of conspiracy theories” try to limit sales of a potboiler novel by a former stewardess?

hqdefaultHint: It isn’t literary quality they’re afraid of. If you want a 9/11 truth novel by a literary genius, read Thomas Pynchon’s Bleeding Edge. Pynchon’s book has lots of great writing and a modest amount of 9/11 truth, packaged in such a way as not to offend the Tribe that dominates American media.

But if you want a rough-hewn page-turner with more 9/11 truth than anything you’re likely to read this side of David Ray Griffin or Christopher Bollyn (or Veterans Today for that matter) check out Methodical Illusion. Roth boldly goes where no stewardess or novelist has gone before, pinning 9/11 squarely on the Israelis and their American assets, and providing a convincing explanation of how the planes were “hijacked,” by whom, where they went, and what happened to the passengers.

Roth’s book has set off a stampede by her former colleagues in the aviation industry, who are rushing to provide details supporting her revelations. They are confirming the installation of FTS (Flight Termination System) equipment on the models “hijacked” on 9/11, which allowed those planes to be taken over remotely and flown from the ground. When FTS takes over a plane, it completely shuts down that plane’s communications with the outside world. That explains why not one of the four pilots on any of the 9/11 planes managed to flip a toggle switch and squawk the hijack code. Had the aircraft been hijacked in a normal manner, the pilots, who are trained to instantly squawk “hijack” in such an emergency, all would have done so.

The failure of any of the 9/11 planes to squawk the “we are hijacked” message is absolute, conclusive proof that the official story of hijackings by Arabs armed with box cutters is false.

According to the author’s hypothesis, the FTS-captured-and-silenced planes landed at a nearby Air Force base with gigantic hangars, which Roth identifies and a colleague who was there confirms happened, less than 20 minutes after takeoff. Once on the ground, selected flight attendants and passengers were guided (or forced) to place cell phone calls, during which they read from scripts prepared by the perpetrators.

This scenario is very similar to one planned by the entire Joint Chiefs of Staff in 1962: the infamous Operation Northwoods. And it is entirely plausible. The main counter-argument – that the FAA tracked the two Boston aircraft from takeoff to crashes – has been disproven, since we now know that the 9/11 perpetrators were inserting false blips onto FAA controllers screens and thereby controlling what they saw.

According to this scenario, the Twin Towers would have been hit by military aircraft and/or missiles, not passenger jets.

Roth’s hypothesis is compelling, for several reasons. First, it explains why the perpetrators would invent such a ridiculously implausible scenario as “hijacked suicide attack planes fly all over the Eastern half of the USA before finally hitting their targets or being taken down by heroic passengers.” They needed this palpably absurd scheme to allow for time to covertly land the planes and stage the dramas via scripted cell phone calls. And the dramas – which would brainwash Americans into hating Israel’s Muslim enemies and killing them by the millions – were (alongside the horrific images broadcast from New York) the key part of the psy-op. Without the “cell phone calls,” nobody would have “known” what happened on those planes.

Were there such a thing as al-Qaeda suicide hijackers, they would take over the plane immediately after takeoff and fly straight for their targets, thereby minimizing the possibility of things going wrong, such as FTS being activated by the good guys or NORAD interceptors showing up in around 10 minutes – the normal procedure every time a plane deviates significantly from course.

But since there have been no successful hijackings in the USA since the 1970s, the whole idea that even one plane would be successfully hijacked on 9/11 is ludicrous. The preposterous claim that four planes with military-trained pilots were commandeered by 130 pound “muscle hijackers” with box cutters and flown with consummate skill and impossible speed by pilots who couldn’t even fly Cessnas is one of history’s most bizarre delusions.

Roth’s hypothesis also explains why so many of the people who received phone calls from the “hijacked passengers” insisted that the calls came from the person’s cell phone, positively identified through caller ID. In 2001, cell phones did not work at altitude. The calls must have been made from the ground.

Additionally, this scenario explains why many of the cell phone calls went on so long; were often placed to improbable recipients; had none of the correct background sounds; and were full of bizarre glitches revealing that they were scripted and/or coerced, not actual emergency calls from in-flight aircraft.

Roth’s explanation sheds light on the role of Rabbi Dov Zakheim, a US-Israeli dual citizen who served as Comptroller of the Pentagon on 9/11 and managed to abscond with $2.3 trillion dollars, as Rumsfeld announced the day before.

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#1. To: christine (#0)

Nonsense...

Cynicom  posted on  2015-02-02   18:51:36 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#2. To: Cynicom (#1) (Edited)

Nonsense...

So in your mind, 19 angry arabs (a number of whom are still verifiably alive) defeated the world's largest intelligence grid and military defenses with nothing more than box cutters and luck, eh?

And they were so powerful and smart, they were able to change the laws of physics that day, and forced the US ahead of time to execute war games that simulated the very things that were claimed to occur that morning, right?

All of this because they "hated our freedoms". LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Let me guess, you're a fan of Dick Cheney too.


"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2015-02-02   19:09:49 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#3. To: Cynicom (#1)

Now that I've stopped laughing so hard, can you please provide one sane and honest argument as to WHY the author's claims are "nonsense"?


"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2015-02-02   19:11:36 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#4. To: Cynicom (#1)

And oh yeah, those dastardly arabs forced the Israelis to drive a van loaded with explosives onto the George Washington bridge that day...


"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2015-02-02   19:21:32 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#5. To: FormerLurker (#3)

Have you ever tried to argue what is accepted as geographic fact - the roundness of the Earth - with a flat-Earther based on evidence you can muster on the spot?

(It's not that easy, BTW - especially when confronted with a stubborn, well- indoctrinated Wahabbist.)

Some folks just cannot be moved.

"If ignorance is truly bliss, then why do so many Americans need Prozac?" - Dave McGowan

randge  posted on  2015-02-02   19:26:03 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#6. To: All (#4) (Edited)

And then there's this (an Urban Moving Systems van located on King Street which BLEW UP, and was painted with an image of an airliner crashing into the WTC)..


"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2015-02-02   19:29:37 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#7. To: randge (#5)

I'm sure I'd give it one hell of a shot... :)


"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2015-02-02   19:30:37 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#8. To: Cynicom (#1)

really, Cyni? what do YOU know that none of the rest of us do?

Truth is still truth even if no one believes it. A lie is still a lie even if everyone believes it.

christine  posted on  2015-02-02   20:06:47 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#9. To: All (#8)

A pretty compelling argument, imo.

“Remember the comptroller of the Pentagon (Dov Zakheim), who owned the company that manufactured the flight termination system? He also owned a company that refurbished commercial 767s and sold them as military refueling tankers. He just got some free airplanes to add to his inventory. They could have easily kept those planes hidden in the hangers (at the Air Force Base) and flown them out after dark”. (251)

According to former NSA officer Wayne Madsen, one or more of those planes may now be parked at the “Boneyard” (the Marana Air Field) in Arizona. Madsen spent several days on-site investigating the murder of former CIA pilot and 9/11 truth author Philip Marshall – a crime which, like the recent assassination of Gray State filmmaker David Crowley, was a professional hit disguised as a murder-suicide. Madsen believes Marshall may have been killed because he discovered one or more 9/11 planes stored at Marana. The quickest way to shed light on this, I suspect, would be to waterboard Rabbi Zakheim.

But the larcenous and murderous Rabbi was not the only key Israeli-American player in the plane-capture operation. Another was Daniel Lewin, the “hijacker in seat 9B” on Flight 11. Lewin was (and may still be) a topnotch Mossad assassin. Roth suggests Daniel Lewin may have been one of the agents tasked with overseeing the FTS plane-takeovers, controlling the passengers and crew, coercing cell-phone-callers, and ultimately killing the “9/11 plane crash victims” whose DNA samples would then be sent to a military laboratory for identification. (Though there is no documentation of any discovery of passenger remains at Shanksville or the Pentagon – indeed, there is not one shred of evidence that Fight 93 was ever excavated from the ten-by-fifteen-foot hole in the ground it allegedly disappeared into, or that airliner or passenger remains were ever removed from the Pentagon – the government claims that all of the passengers and crew from those two sites, but none of the alleged hijackers, have been DNA-identified from crash site remains!)

Among the airline industry whistleblowers who have contacted Roth is one who still possesses the original passenger manifests for the “hijacked flights.” There are no Arab names on those manifests. That would explain why the public versions also contain no Arab names; why no remains of any alleged hijackers were ever DNA-identified; why the US government has repeatedly refused pleas from the alleged hijackers’ family members to accept DNA samples and try to identify their falsely-accused loved ones; why several of the alleged hijackers were identity theft victims with Mossad dopplegangers; why not a single authentic security camera image shows any of the alleged hijackers en route to boarding any of the four alleged attack aircraft; why no airline industry employees have ever testified about ticketing or boarding any of the 19 Arabs; why no passenger stubs have ever been produced for the 19 Arabs; and why ten of the alleged hijackers turned up alive after 9/11.

Truth is still truth even if no one believes it. A lie is still a lie even if everyone believes it.

christine  posted on  2015-02-02   20:37:26 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#10. To: christine (#9)

I cannot believe that we're still discussing this ultimate FF OP after all these years.

God help the bone-headed disbelievers and deniers.

“The most dangerous man to any government is the man who is able to think things out... without regard to the prevailing superstitions and taboos. Almost inevitably he comes to the conclusion that the government he lives under is dishonest, insane, intolerable.” ~ H. L. Mencken

Lod  posted on  2015-02-02   20:55:40 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#11. To: christine, All (#8)

really, Cyni? what do YOU know that none of the rest of us do?

Know?

Nothing but what everyone else knows.

There is a difference of belief triggered firstly by common sense, secondly by a professional life involved with aviation, military, manufacturing and government.

I must say, common sense is the most important denominator.

Olde adage, the truth is easy to tell, a lie will trip you up eventually. For dozens, perhaps hundreds of people to be intrusted with a lie is an impossibility.

Cynicom  posted on  2015-02-02   21:04:46 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#12. To: christine (#8)

really, Cyni? what do YOU know that none of the rest of us do?

It should be clear by now that the accumulated self proclaimed whizdumb of ignifool is best expressed with one word dismissive ejaculations, often followed some sort of childish taunt to any that would question his whizdumb.

“Anti-semitism is a disease–you catch it from Jews”–Edgar J. Steele

“The jew cries out in pain, as he strikes you.”–Polish proverb

“I would like to express my heartfelt apologies for the unfortunate and tasteless quotes I published in my tag lines. I am very sorry and ashamed. I never wanted to offend anyone, or to encroach human rights."- Hmmmmm

Hmmmmm  posted on  2015-02-02   21:23:36 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#13. To: Hmmmmm, 4 (#12)

Please try to cogently and coherently address the message, and not the messenger.

Thanks much.

“The most dangerous man to any government is the man who is able to think things out... without regard to the prevailing superstitions and taboos. Almost inevitably he comes to the conclusion that the government he lives under is dishonest, insane, intolerable.” ~ H. L. Mencken

Lod  posted on  2015-02-02   22:38:54 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#14. To: Cynicom, christine, All (#11)

Olde adage, the truth is easy to tell, a lie will trip you up eventually. For dozens, perhaps hundreds of people to be intrusted with a lie is an impossibility.

Not if you imprison or "neutralize" the ones with loose lips. Then again, with secret societies where members are more loyal to their own than to anyone else on earth, then perhaps there are some involved who fill that role.


"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2015-02-02   22:41:53 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#15. To: Lod (#10)

I cannot believe that we're still discussing this ultimate FF OP after all these years.

I can't either. I was discussing with someone else here last week that really thought a 757 vaporized entirely into a hole in a huge concrete wall.

Katniss  posted on  2015-02-02   23:24:22 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#16. To: Lod (#13)

Please try to cogently and coherently address the message, and not the messenger.

Lod, respectfully NO! Been there, done that.

He squirts diarrhea on a thread and we're supposed to lick it up. He can't (won't) defend his positions cogently and politely and I don't have to eat his shit.

“Anti-semitism is a disease–you catch it from Jews”–Edgar J. Steele

“The jew cries out in pain, as he strikes you.”–Polish proverb

“I would like to express my heartfelt apologies for the unfortunate and tasteless quotes I published in my tag lines. I am very sorry and ashamed. I never wanted to offend anyone, or to encroach human rights."- Hmmmmm

Hmmmmm  posted on  2015-02-02   23:59:27 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#17. To: Katniss (#15)

I was discussing with someone else here last week that really thought a 757 vaporized entirely into a hole in a huge concrete wall.

They also don't get sucked into a hole in the ground and NO cell phones worked from airplanes in 2001.

“Anti-semitism is a disease–you catch it from Jews”–Edgar J. Steele

“The jew cries out in pain, as he strikes you.”–Polish proverb

“I would like to express my heartfelt apologies for the unfortunate and tasteless quotes I published in my tag lines. I am very sorry and ashamed. I never wanted to offend anyone, or to encroach human rights."- Hmmmmm

Hmmmmm  posted on  2015-02-03   0:08:26 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#18. To: christine (#0)

Bravo!

Thanks for posting.

May Americans wake up now.

ratcat  posted on  2015-02-03   0:11:39 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#19. To: FormerLurker (#6)

That was a pretty good video. The Dancing Israelis - never to be forgotten.

This stuff is like the JFK stuff - never a final closure...

Fred Mertz  posted on  2015-02-03   1:07:28 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#20. To: Fred Mertz, FormerLurker (#19)

Like JFK, only tragedies ensue. As if he was a symbol holding back the furies. Lack of closure, and the defaulting rise of power of the NeoCons ensued after 9/11. Obama's alleged anger at congress for inviting Netanyahu voiding protocol is one of the only real signs of resistance I've seen so far.

Even 4um people think Obama is just a wicked son of a Muslim, which explains why he'd do such a thing.

Deasy  posted on  2015-02-03   1:31:36 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#21. To: Hmmmmm (#16)

Stick to the facts and follow rules of courteous debate when engaging fellow forum members. It's easy to do. Just reply with factual, logical arguments free from fallacy and malice. Even then, who's reading whom? Whose minds will change? We never know.

Deasy  posted on  2015-02-03   1:46:12 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#22. To: Deasy (#21)

Stick to the facts and follow rules of courteous debate when engaging fellow forum members. It's easy to do. Just reply with factual, logical arguments free from fallacy and malice.

I believe that comment should have been directed our Yoda who is incapable of such, and who through his use of fallacious arguments and fabricating rules intended to stifle debate relieved me of the obligation of any courtesy.

Cyni is at best an old fool that has been banned from every forum that allowed him in for rudeness and drunken nuttery, not exactly mentor material.

I've shown deference to you in the past as a kindness, I think you might have misunderstood my courtesy. You really don't have a dog in this fight.

Do you understand the concept of global thermonuclear war. I find its promotion untenable.

“Anti-semitism is a disease–you catch it from Jews”–Edgar J. Steele

“The jew cries out in pain, as he strikes you.”–Polish proverb

“I would like to express my heartfelt apologies for the unfortunate and tasteless quotes I published in my tag lines. I am very sorry and ashamed. I never wanted to offend anyone, or to encroach human rights."- Hmmmmm

Hmmmmm  posted on  2015-02-03   7:45:19 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#23. To: Cynicom (#1)

Nonsense...

The author may not have the scenario of that day precisely accurate but I'd bet my life it's much closer to the truth than the fabrication offered by Uncle Sambo.

"Honest, April 15th is April Fools Day".

noone222  posted on  2015-02-03   8:05:05 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#24. To: noone222, All (#23)

According to the author’s hypothesis, the FTS-captured-and-silenced planes landed at a nearby Air Force base with gigantic hangars, which Roth identifies and a colleague who was there confirms happened, less than 20 minutes after takeoff. Once on the ground, selected flight attendants and passengers were guided (or forced) to place cell phone calls, during which they read from scripts prepared by the perpetrators.

This scenario is very similar to one planned by the entire Joint Chiefs of Staff in 1962: the infamous Operation Northwoods. And it is entirely plausible. The main counter-argument – that the FAA tracked the two Boston aircraft from takeoff to crashes – has been disproven,... since we now know that the 9/11 perpetrators were inserting false blips onto FAA controllers screens and thereby controlling what they saw. .....

... since we now know that the 9/11 perpetrators were inserting false blips onto FAA controllers screens and thereby controlling what they saw. .....

And we KNOW this how?????

There is a transcript available of what was happening in the FAA operations center that day. I have perused it several times, finding nothing but confusion, indecision and lack of command.

In it you will read that in the center they were watching the aircraft approaching Washington, make turns etc etc, with mileage being called out as it nears D.C. All in the room assumed the target was the White House, but it turned away toward the Pentagon.

It is all there, minute by minute.

Primary radar CANNOT be controlled by anyone except the controllers, plus the aircraft was being watched by MULTIPLE radars, not just one.

This work of hype is for the gullible, TO MAKE MONEY.

It is no wonder that the conspirators have gotten away.

By the way, in the past, I and other misfits use to jam American and Russian radars for practice, the sneaky controllers would shift frequency on us and be watching us naked.

It is a shame anyone here on 4um would ever buy into this money making book.

If anyone maintains all the people in the control center in Washington were in on this affair, I quit. Ignorance gets us all, stupidity is terminal.

Cynicom  posted on  2015-02-03   9:10:50 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#25. To: Cynicom (#24)

It is a shame anyone here on 4um would ever buy into this money making book.

I do not intend to buy the book ... I do think the planes were likely remote controlled, that Dov Zakheim was involved, and that we have been lied into war wherein innocent people are being slaughtered for the advancement of the global elite.

Gnosis is impossible for the general public regarding 9-11.

"Honest, April 15th is April Fools Day".

noone222  posted on  2015-02-03   9:28:28 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#26. To: noone222 (#25)

I have to agree with much of what you have to say. That three of these planes, ostensibly guided by very low-skill pilots, hit their marks at speeds and altitudes that the airliners in question were not designed to cruise or maneuver at is nothing short of miraculous. What followed was one geostrategic disaster after another.

The concealment and destruction of evidence has made "gnosis" difficult, but there are yards of loose ends the perps left for us to unravel. History will yet speak of this in ways that haven't yet generally been given voice to.

"If ignorance is truly bliss, then why do so many Americans need Prozac?" - Dave McGowan

randge  posted on  2015-02-03   9:45:24 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#27. To: Cynicom (#24)

... since we now know that the 9/11 perpetrators were inserting false blips onto FAA controllers screens and thereby controlling what they saw. .....

And we KNOW this how?????

From Toronto Star Reprint, 9 December 2001

COLORADO SPRINGS, Colo. - EARLY morning, Sept. 11. A lifetime before the attacks on New York and Washington. Deep inside a mountain in Colorado and far beneath the granite of North Bay, members of the North American Aerospace Defence Command (NORAD) are at full "battle staff" levels for a major annual exercise that tests every facet of the organization.

Operation Northern Vigilance, planned months in advance, involves deploying fighter jets to locations in Alaska and northern Canada. Part of this exercise is pure simulation, but part is real world: NORAD is keeping a close eye on the Russians, who have dispatched long-range bombers to their own high north on a similar exercise.

Everything is going as planned when Capt. Mike Jellinek arrives for his 6 a.m. shift. The Canadian will be overseeing the crew staffing a crucial post inside the mountain- NORAD's command centre.

Whether it's a simulation or a real-world event, the role of the centre is to fuse every critical piece of information NORAD has into a concise and crystalline snapshot.

An hour into his shift, something unscripted happens. NORAD's Northeast Air Defence Sector (NEADS), based in Rome, N.Y., contacts the mountain.

The Federal Aviation Administration has evidence of a hijacking and is asking for NORAD support. This is not part of the exercise.

In a flash, Operation Northern Vigilance is called off. Any simulated information, what's known as an "inject," is purged from the screens.

Someone shouted to look at the monitor displaying CNN.

"At that point, we saw the World Trade Center, one of the towers, smoke coming out of it. And a minute later, we watched the live feed as the second aircraft swung around into the second tower," says Jellinek.


"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2015-02-03   9:45:38 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#28. To: noone222 (#25)

Take time to read the transcript of the FAA control center.

Mind you the people in charge and on line were the vice president and his advisers, untold generals at NORAD in CO, untold military and civilian power people, however NO ONE WAS MAKING ANY DECISIONS..IT WAS MASS CONFUSION...THE AIRCRAFT IS FAST APPROACHING WASHINGTON AND WE HAD ONLY INERTIA.

Finally a mid level FAA control manager, takes charge, to stop the insanity, he orders all aircraft to land at once, no aircraft to depart within US air space. Incoming overseas flights were turned back if not at PNR, no exceptions.

There were over 4000 aircraft under control at that time, all were brought down without incidents.

Some political hack said the pilots should have the discretion to continue or not...These are the managers words...FUCK THE PILOTS, all aircraft down now no exceptions.

MIND YOU, ALL OF THIS WHILE THE RADAR SHOWED THE AIRCRAFT NEARING, CLOSER AND CLOSER TO WASHINGTON. A missile does not make turns and all this while the radar was compromised by an unseen hand?

It does make one ill to read the transcript, to see that NO ONE OF POWER WAS IN CHARGE. It took a low level FAA manager to stop the insanity. He made the decision, the power people said and did nothing.

That SOB Cheney was worthless.

Cynicom  posted on  2015-02-03   10:00:12 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#29. To: Cynicom (#28)

Why were the fighters scrambled from Langley directed over the ocean instead of towards the approaching aircraft. Did bin Laden hold a gun to Rumsfeld's head?


"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2015-02-03   10:03:45 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#30. To: Hmmmmm (#22)

You really don't have a dog in this fight.

But I do. I'm genuinely trying to be supportive of good dialog. I failed to convey that in my remarks, but I will continue to try.

Deasy  posted on  2015-02-03   10:21:53 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#31. To: Cynicom (#28)

That SOB Cheney was worthless.

Transportation Director Norman Mineta has stated on crisp video that Vice President Cheney called off the fighters assigned to protect the Pentagon, ordering them to "stand down" before the plane struck it. This he heard via a courier giving orders in the command center.

Deasy  posted on  2015-02-03   10:27:09 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#32. To: Deasy (#31)

Somewhere on net is transcript of minute by minute of conversations going on with all the differing command centers.

If you read it all, what will strike you the most is that actually NO ONE was in charge. All the high level people were in conference or the phone, no command nor control was ever exercised by anyone.

One controller calling out the mileage and maneuvering of the inbound aircraft seems to be the only one doing his job.

It is all there, dozens of people involved, not one person of authority taking charge. Makes me sick to read it. Then the low level manager takes charge, the power people are shunted aside.

Cynicom  posted on  2015-02-03   10:53:20 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#33. To: Cynicom (#32)

Cheney's command to the Air Force to stand down isn't in that record, is it?

Deasy  posted on  2015-02-03   10:58:58 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#34. To: Cynicom (#32)

So what you're saying is that our multi-trillion dollar defense systems along with their command and control are basically worthless, correct?

Like damn, if the US can't stop a few ragheads with box-cutters from flying straight into the Pentagon, with a LOT of advance warning, then we may as well just be shooting bottle rockets at incoming enemy aircraft if push comes to shove.

And you want a war with RUSSSIA???


"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2015-02-03   10:59:17 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#35. To: Deasy (#30)

I'm genuinely trying to be supportive of good dialog.

Never try to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and it annoys the pig.

fool me once, shame on — shame on you. Fool me — you can't get fooled again.

Scarlett: What are you doing?

Rhett Butler: I'm leaving you, my dear. All you need now is a divorce and your dreams of Ashley can come true.

Scarlett: Oh, no! No, you're wrong, terribly wrong! I don't want a divorce. Oh Rhett, but I knew tonight, when I... when I knew I loved you, I ran home to tell you, oh darling, darling!

Rhett Butler: Please don't go on with this, Leave us some dignity to remember out of our marriage. Spare us this last.

Scarlett: This last? Oh Rhett, do listen to me, I must have loved you for years, only I was such a stupid fool, I didn't know it. Please believe me, you must care! Melly said you did.

Rhett Butler: I believe you. What about Ashley Wilkes?

Scarlett: I... I never really loved Ashley.

Rhett Butler: You certainly gave a good imitation of it, up till this morning. No Scarlett, I tried everything. If you'd only met me half way, even when I came back from London.

Scarlett: I was so glad to see you. I was, Rhett, but you were so nasty.

Rhett Butler: And then when you were sick, it was all my fault... I hoped against hope that you'd call for me, but you didn't.

Scarlett: I wanted you. I wanted you desperately but I didn't think you wanted me.

Rhett Butler: It seems we've been at cross purposes, doesn't it? But it's no use now. As long as there was Bonnie, there was a chance that we might be happy. I liked to think that Bonnie was you, a little girl again, before the war, and poverty had done things to you. She was so like you, and I could pet her, and spoil her, as I wanted to spoil you. But when she went, she took everything.

Scarlett: Oh, Rhett, Rhett please don't say that. I'm so sorry, I'm so sorry for everything.

Rhett Butler: My darling, you're such a child. You think that by saying, "I'm sorry," all the past can be corrected. Here, take my handkerchief. Never, at any crisis of your life, have I known you to have a handkerchief.

Scarlett: Rhett! Rhett, where are you going?

Rhett Butler: I'm going back to Charleston, back where I belong.

Scarlett: Please, please take me with you!

Rhett Butler: No, I'm through with everything here. I want peace. I want to see if somewhere there isn't something left in life of charm and grace. Do you know what I'm talking about?

Scarlett: No! I only know that I love you.

Rhett Butler: That's your misfortune.

[Rhett turns to walk down the stairs]

Scarlett: Oh, Rhett!

[Scarlett watches Rhett walk to the door]

Scarlett: Rhett!

[runs down the stairs after Rhett]

Scarlett: Rhett, Rhett!

[catches him as he's walking out the front door]

Scarlett: Rhett... if you go, where shall I go, what shall I do?

Rhett Butler: Frankly, my dear, I don't give a damn.

“Anti-semitism is a disease–you catch it from Jews”–Edgar J. Steele

“The jew cries out in pain, as he strikes you.”–Polish proverb

“I would like to express my heartfelt apologies for the unfortunate and tasteless quotes I published in my tag lines. I am very sorry and ashamed. I never wanted to offend anyone, or to encroach human rights."- Hmmmmm

Hmmmmm  posted on  2015-02-03   11:00:33 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#36. To: Deasy (#31)

PS...I forgot to add this, something little mentioned in media.

Prior to FAA grounding all aircraft, American Airlines had already taken action by grounding many or all of their aircraft.

Private industry always leads the way with decision making, government is always in inertia mode.

Cynicom  posted on  2015-02-03   11:01:25 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#37. To: Cynicom (#36)

But does the transcript mention Dick Cheney's stand-down command?

Deasy  posted on  2015-02-03   11:04:38 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#38. To: Cynicom (#32)

What it comes down to Cyni is that your lack of response to the questions posed to you is an implicit admission that you are wrong, and that you have nothing honest to respond with.


"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2015-02-03   11:06:04 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#39. To: Hmmmmm (#35)

Rhett Butler: Frankly, my dear, I don't give a damn.

Great line, isn't it? Sarcasm doesn't always come in such clear, celluloid packages.

Deasy  posted on  2015-02-03   11:07:11 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#40. To: Deasy (#39)

You wanted great dialogue.

“Anti-semitism is a disease–you catch it from Jews”–Edgar J. Steele

“The jew cries out in pain, as he strikes you.”–Polish proverb

“I would like to express my heartfelt apologies for the unfortunate and tasteless quotes I published in my tag lines. I am very sorry and ashamed. I never wanted to offend anyone, or to encroach human rights."- Hmmmmm

Hmmmmm  posted on  2015-02-03   11:36:09 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  



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