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War, War, War
See other War, War, War Articles

Title: Don’t Hate Chris Kyle—or the Iraqis
Source: [None]
URL Source: http://www.theamericanconservative. ... hate-chris-kyle-or-the-iraqis/
Published: Feb 5, 2015
Author: Jack Hunter
Post Date: 2015-02-05 20:12:13 by christine
Keywords: None
Views: 244
Comments: 16

“I hated the damn savages… I could give a flying f*** about the Iraqis,” wrote the late Chris Kyle in his 2013 memoir, American Sniper.

As the Clint Eastwood-directed biopic about Kyle continues to do big box office, The Guardian’s Lindy West asked why so many were celebrating a “hate filled killer.” West wasn’t the only one who wondered why so many were proud of this “psychopath.”

National Review’s Ian Tuttle notes how some of Kyle’s controversial comments may have been taken out of context. For example, Kyle actually wrote, “I hated the damn savages I’d been fighting,” (emphasis added) which is significantly different from how West’s edit portrays him. As for not giving a “flying f***” about Iraqis, here is the entire quote:

I didn’t risk my life to bring democracy to Iraq. I risked my life for my buddies, to protect my friends and fellow countrymen. I went to war for my country, not Iraq. My country sent me out there so that bullsh*t wouldn’t make its way back to our shores. I never once fought for the Iraqis. I could give a flying f*** about them.

I have long believed the Iraq War was one of the worst foreign-policy blunders in U.S. history. Watching “American Sniper,” Kyle seemed to me as much a victim of the horrible decision to invade Iraq as the Iraqis.

Rod Dreher is right: “The main takeaway for me was the cost of war on a soldier. It made me angrier at Bush, Rumsfeld, and the lot for putting true-believing, faithful soldiers like Chris Kyle into Iraq under false or foolish pretenses.”

In the film, Kyle is not a knuckle-dragging murderer who gets off on killing “brown” Arabs, as some have alleged, but a soldier who wrestles tremendously with his military duties and is never really comfortable with his fame as America’s “most lethal sniper.” Kyle seems sure in his rhetoric about fighting for his country and getting the “bad guys,” but his everyday environment, both in Iraq and stateside, is morally complex. Kyle and his fellow soldiers do wonder about the point of their mission, particularly as the years wear on. Why are they there? What are they trying to accomplish?

“What was that for, anyway?” Rod Dreher asks.

Kyle didn’t give a “flying f***” about Iraqis because his first concern was his “buddies” and his countrymen. Likewise, many Iraqis didn’t care for the U.S. soldiers in their midst because of what the war had done to their families and country.

Both of these different, yet same, perspectives are healthy and normal patriotic sentiments. Both emanate from people who are culturally removed from each other, if not for war. It is this detachment that makes it easier to villainize the other side. In the movie and probably in real life, this becomes harder to do as U.S. soldiers and Iraqis see each other face-to-face daily.

Demonizing either U.S. soldiers or ordinary Iraqis is much easier for those who didn’t have to live the war up close, or at all, but only experience it through Fox News pundits or op-eds in The Guardian.

Every Arab or Muslim is not a terrorist, though for many hawks there is a certain moral comfort in subscribing to this kind of bigotry. Every U.S. soldier is not a “murderer,” “psychopath” or “baby killer” (going back to the Vietnam-era), though antiwar critics get a certain satisfaction with these blanket slanders.

The truth is more complex. It almost always is. Simplifying it often only compounds the tragedy for those who’ve suffered, but strengthens attitudes that can lead to policies that result in more suffering.

Many Americans, perhaps many fans of Chris Kyle and “American Sniper,” really do think of Iraqis or Muslims in general not as people, but as terrorists or terrorist sympathizers. Yet many innocents Muslims and Arabs are as much victims, of both American foreign policy and Islamic extremists in their midst, as the innocent people murdered on 9/11. They didn’t ask for this chaos and tragedy in their lives, but they find themselves damaged by it, nonetheless.

Most U.S. military members are regular, morally upstanding people who are thrust into extreme circumstances due to their government’s unwise foreign policy decisions. Yes, they voluntarily signed up, whether out of patriotic duty or economic necessity. Still, it wasn’t Americans soldiers’ decision to invade Iraq. It wasn’t Chris Kyle who sneakily tried to connect the 9/11 attacks with Saddam Hussein, as Dreher notes.

Kyle was a victim of this deception as were his brothers and sisters in arms.

Those who constantly argue against a habitually aggressive and mindless U.S. foreign policy insist that we must consider what war does to those living in the Middle East on a personal, emotional level, and also how this affects the long term security interests of the United States. “Blowback” is real, and yet it is a hard sell for many Americans, particularly because Middle Eastern culture is still something remote for most living in the United States. Many in the U.S. more often see that region and the people in it as an inconsequential blip on CNN, not as individuals with families who share the same life concerns as Americans.

Chris Kyle, on the other hand, was all-American. Those who admire Kyle probably know people like him.

Culturally, Kyle reminded me of me. I was born the same year as Kyle, come from a middle-class background, spent the better part of my life in bars chasing girls, have a distinct Southern drawl, and my rhetoric can be rough and undisciplined. Watching “American Sniper,” I imagined what I would have done if I found myself in the same situation. I really don’t know. My current political beliefs aside—senator and Vietnam veteran Jim Webb once called the battlefield the most apolitical environment he’s ever experienced—I am not confident my behavior or attitude would have been different from Kyle’s.

Kyle, like many Americans, wants to believe his government is right but becomes more confused as the war wears on. He joined the military to do his duty and serve his country. His certainty dampens and then deteriorates, as does his mental state while his family life lies in tatters.

Chris Kyle wasn’t alone. The following is a private discussion with a woman who generally holds antiwar views that helps shed light on what many military members and their families have gone through post 9/11. She wished to remain anonymous and this is used with her permission:

My brother did five tours between Iraq and Afghanistan. He says he did a lot of things we know he didn’t do, and suffers from insane PTSD to the point that he and I hardly speak and when we do he’s irrational to the point of distraction. But he’ll tell you some crazy stories, has some serious violence issues, and probably could be classified as the same type of “jerk, liar, and murderer” that Chris Kyle is accused of being. These guys come back messed the hell up. Some figure shit out, others don’t. Sometimes the bragging is their way of dealing or staying numb or hiding. I’ll pass on making judgment because I sure as hell wouldn’t be able to handle what they went through and I hope one day my brother returns to a piece of who he was before.

How many U.S. military members and their families see their own struggles reflected in the saga of Chris Kyle?

War critics who now attack Kyle and arguably, by extension, the U.S. military, don’t sound much different than hawks who revel in casting all Middle Easterners in the worst possible light. There is an ugly crudeness to being anti-Muslim. The same can be true of being anti-military too.

Many war critics are careful to explain the context of anti-American sentiment made by some in the Arab world, that certain U.S. policies naturally provoke emotion and extreme rhetoric. These critics should approach Kyle and some of his controversial statements with the same depth, consideration, and judgment.

Being antiwar can, and should, also mean being pro-soldier. “American Sniper” should be instructive in this regard, despite attempts by left and right to see only what suits their ideological purposes. Director Clint Eastwood says his movie makes “the biggest antiwar statement any film can.”

Ultimately, “American Sniper” is about what the Iraq War did to Chris Kyle and his family. He wasn’t just some cocksure cartoon. He was a man. And he was a mess.


Poster Comment: This is well reasoned and discernible commentary about Chris Kyle and the Iraq war.

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#1. To: Cynicom (#0)

I believe that you will like this one.

Truth is still truth even if no one believes it. A lie is still a lie even if everyone believes it.

christine  posted on  2015-02-05   20:13:48 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#2. To: christine (#0)

This is well reasoned and discernible commentary about Chris Kyle and the Iraq war.

I couldn't agree more.

Jethro Tull  posted on  2015-02-05   20:16:16 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#3. To: christine (#0)

In the film, Kyle is not a knuckle-dragging murderer who gets off on killing “brown” Arabs, as some have alleged, but a soldier who wrestles tremendously with his military duties and is never really comfortable with his fame as America’s “most lethal sniper.”

And who was it that forced him into that role?

Oh, that's right, it was completely voluntary.

Katniss  posted on  2015-02-05   20:45:57 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#4. To: christine (#0)

My brother did five tours between Iraq and Afghanistan. He says he did a lot of things we know he didn’t do, and suffers from insane PTSD to the point that he and I hardly speak and when we do he’s irrational to the point of distraction. But he’ll tell you some crazy stories, has some serious violence issues, and probably could be classified as the same type of “jerk, liar, and murderer” that Chris Kyle is accused of being. These guys come back messed the hell up.

Well, again, purely voluntary. You'd think that they'd at least look into things prior to joining to voluntarily do this.

If they can't learn the lessons from Americans that were going to Europe to shorten the war in their beer-muscled mentalities with those wars lasting years then they never will.

Some people learn from the experiences and mistakes of others, most do not.

Katniss  posted on  2015-02-05   20:48:34 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#5. To: Katniss (#3)

Kyle seems sure in his rhetoric about fighting for his country and getting the “bad guys,” but his everyday environment, both in Iraq and stateside, is morally complex. Kyle and his fellow soldiers do wonder about the point of their mission, particularly as the years wear on. Why are they there? What are they trying to accomplish?

Makes me wonder if he wasn't having a change of heart ala Pat Tillman and was ready to say so when he was killed at the shooting range with a PTSD ex-vet. What was Kyle thinking?

Truth is still truth even if no one believes it. A lie is still a lie even if everyone believes it.

christine  posted on  2015-02-05   20:53:46 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#6. To: christine, 4 (#5)

Kyle's shooter will soon be on trial in Stephenville TX (of all places), and that should be a circus in its own right.

“The most dangerous man to any government is the man who is able to think things out... without regard to the prevailing superstitions and taboos. Almost inevitably he comes to the conclusion that the government he lives under is dishonest, insane, intolerable.” ~ H. L. Mencken

Lod  posted on  2015-02-05   21:16:18 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#7. To: christine (#0)

I think this reflects our gracious sentiment toward the troops of 11 or 12 years ago with the Bring'em Home campaign before we knew about the lies, rapes, mass murders, and torture.
Before the troops started getting $20,000 re-enlistment bonuses.
Before a million and a half Iraqis were killed.
Before the troops volunteered to redeploy 5, 6, 7 times.
Before Chris Kyle racked up 250+ kills from 300 to 1000 yards.
Before we (I) realized that supporting the troops was de facto support of their mission.

With the benefit of hindsight the author had it is my opinion this article is much too gracious to the troops for their actions and to us for allowing it in our name. The article in effect claims "No harm, no foul".

“Anti-semitism is a disease–you catch it from Jews”–Edgar J. Steele

“The jew cries out in pain, as he strikes you.”–Polish proverb

“I would like to express my heartfelt apologies for the unfortunate and tasteless quotes I published in my tag lines. I am very sorry and ashamed. I never wanted to offend anyone, or to encroach human rights."- Hmmmmm

Hmmmmm  posted on  2015-02-05   22:13:53 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#8. To: christine (#5)

Makes me wonder if he wasn't having a change of heart ala Pat Tillman and was ready to say so when he was killed at the shooting range with a PTSD ex-vet. What was Kyle thinking?

I can see that, that's pretty traumatic shit that they experience.

Katniss  posted on  2015-02-05   22:20:22 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#9. To: Hmmmmm (#7)

I think this reflects our gracious sentiment toward the troops of 11 or 12 years ago with the Bring'em Home campaign before we knew about the lies, rapes, mass murders, and torture. Before the troops started getting $20,000 re-enlistment bonuses. Before a million and a half Iraqis were killed. Before the troops volunteered to redeploy 5, 6, 7 times. Before Chris Kyle racked up 250+ kills from 300 to 1000 yards. Before we (I) realized that supporting the troops was de facto support of their mission.

Yeah. I can't argue with any of those points.

Truth is still truth even if no one believes it. A lie is still a lie even if everyone believes it.

christine  posted on  2015-02-05   23:39:44 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#10. To: christine (#9)

Yeah. I can't argue with any of those points.

Just a little tug before you started Freeping us. You're not going to post that Lee greenwood thing are you? ;)

“Anti-semitism is a disease–you catch it from Jews”–Edgar J. Steele

“The jew cries out in pain, as he strikes you.”–Polish proverb

“I would like to express my heartfelt apologies for the unfortunate and tasteless quotes I published in my tag lines. I am very sorry and ashamed. I never wanted to offend anyone, or to encroach human rights."- Hmmmmm

Hmmmmm  posted on  2015-02-06   0:46:11 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#11. To: Hmmmmm (#10)

omg :/

Truth is still truth even if no one believes it. A lie is still a lie even if everyone believes it.

christine  posted on  2015-02-06   10:59:39 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#12. To: Hmmmmm, christine (#10)

Just a little tug before you started Freeping us. You're not going to post that Lee greenwood thing are you? ;)

Yeah, we all know it was a near thing indeed that Christine didn't make that the official anthem for the 4um. LOL!!!

Americans who have no experience with, or knowledge of, tyranny believe that only terrorists will experience the unchecked power of the state. They will believe this until it happens to them, or their children, or their friends. Paul Craig Roberts

"When plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men living together in society, they create for themselves in the course of time a legal system that authorizes it and a moral code that glorifies it." Frederic Bastiat

James Deffenbach  posted on  2015-02-06   11:28:01 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#13. To: Katniss (#4)

Well, again, purely voluntary.

No, the initial enlisting was voluntary, then the stop-losses were used over and over and over and over again until the cannon fodder was no longer living or fit for service.

Stop-loss is a term primarily used in the United States military. In the U.S. military, it is the involuntary extension of a service member's active duty service under the enlistment contract in order to retain them beyond their initial end of term of service (ETS) date and up to their contractually agreed end of active obligated service (EAOS). It also applies to the cessation of a permanent change of station (PCS) move for a member still in military service. Stop-loss was used immediately before and during the first Persian Gulf War. Since then, it has been used during deployments to Somalia, Haiti, Bosnia, Kosovo and after the September 11 attacks and the subsequent War on Terror.

" If you cannot govern yourself, you will be governed by assholes. " Randge, Poet de Forum, 1/11/11

"Life's tough, and even tougher if you're stupid." --John Wayne

abraxas  posted on  2015-02-06   12:43:55 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#14. To: abraxas (#13)

When you sign the contract, you know full well that there's a good chance that that will happen and it states exactly that in black and white. Especially true over the last ten years.

Are you suggesting that Kyle was doing all that reluctantly?

Katniss  posted on  2015-02-06   22:55:42 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#15. To: Katniss (#14)

Are you suggesting that Kyle was doing all that reluctantly?

When you sign the contract, you know full well that there's a good chance that that will happen and it states exactly that in black and white. Especially true over the last ten years.

No, Kyle delighted in his "duty" to kill.

I am saying that many volunteer and that the stop loss goes on until unworthy for combat is involuntary by definition of stop loss.

In most cases the recruiter does not bother to mention the stop loss aspect of the contract. This is especially true for those signing on to National Guard and told that they will be protecting the home land in the home land only to find they are off to the Middle East.....Mostly, they are told there is no chance they are going to be shipped off as cannon fodder.

" If you cannot govern yourself, you will be governed by assholes. " Randge, Poet de Forum, 1/11/11

"Life's tough, and even tougher if you're stupid." --John Wayne

abraxas  posted on  2015-02-07   12:31:33 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#16. To: abraxas (#15)

Mostly, they are told there is no chance they are going to be shipped off as cannon fodder.

Well, most of 'em aren't illiterate enough to be able to mistake the most simple verbage of that contract. It was as clear as day to me. If people sign contracts over their life like that without reading it and/or having someone close to them read it to, then that's a classic blunder.

This is all besides the point. Anything that can happen in more than one tour can certainly happen, and does, in just one.

I honestly do not know why anyone would trust someone at a low rank, which all recruitment NCOs are, about how the government is going to handle something.

The bottom line is that today absolutely no one must wear a uniform unless they volunteered to do so in the first place. Hell, when I was in there was talk of going to Central America and we all knew that it was in our contracts and realized that we couldn't complain if went/had-to-go or were extended as a result. Fortunately it was all rumor. There is an 8-year limit on that which I believe still exists. As an officer it's lifetime recall, which is why I never became one. I didn't want that hanging over my head for the rest of my life.

Katniss  posted on  2015-02-07   16:33:24 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


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