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Health
See other Health Articles

Title: Obamacare Fleecing the Middle Class
Source: [None]
URL Source: http://freedomoutpost.com/2015/02/m ... class-fleecing-with-obamacare/
Published: Feb 21, 2015
Author: -
Post Date: 2015-02-21 22:06:18 by Katniss
Keywords: None
Views: 237
Comments: 24

Obamacare Fleecing the Middle Class

It is becoming increasingly difficult for Virginians to find doctors and secure appointments in a timely manner, thanks to Obamacare. After a fierce battle, the bills meant to create state exchanges and to expand Medicaid have died in the House and in the Senate. However, Democrat Governor McAuliffe added Medicaid expansion to his budget amendment. The House removed that language from the budget.

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As millions of Americans, who previously had insurance and doctors they were satisfied with and wanted to keep, are suddenly left without insurance, millions others keep losing their new coverage under the much touted Affordable Care Act.

Many Americans became part-time employees without insurance, forcing them to choose plans under the state exchanges. Employers, who could not afford the mandated procedures of the Affordable Care Act, dropped the insurance coverage plans they had previously offered their employees at affordable rates, and reduced employment hours.

With the new exchange plans, bronze, silver, gold, and platinum, people cannot afford to see a doctor when their new plans have such huge deductibles. For most people, it is impossible to meet deductibles in a year and they must pay out of pocket. For them, medical care has now become a very expensive service.

While Obamacare has helped a statistically insignificant percent of Americans, it has devastated the health care of millions who were previously affording their healthcare premiums, had good coverage, low deductibles and co-pays, and their doctors were available within their residential area or a short travel distance.

Suddenly, millions have found themselves paying double or triple premiums, with deductibles going up from $500 to $5,000 and decreased coverage, with the exception of maternity care for all and contraception. There is something seriously wrong when the monthly health care premium becomes larger than mortgage and utilities combined. How fair is it for the bulk of middle-class Americans to pay health care premiums for illegal aliens and welfare recipients while having to let go of their own health insurance because it has skyrocketed? This is not providing health care for 20 percent of previously uninsured Americans; it is socialist redistribution of wealth.

It is laudable to offer insurance to people previously uninsurable, but forcing other working Americans to pay for it and punishing them through IRS fines is wrong and it is a form of stealing. The law has been written by liberals for liberals, to benefit their Democrat voting constituents to the detriment of everyone else. The concept that everyone should be insured is sound but not through Obamacare.

Medical care is not a right, in spite of what liberals claim, it is a service just like any other service you purchase for a nominal fee. Doctors and nurse practitioners must spend years to train in medical school where tuition and books are very expensive. Nobody wants to work for free and nobody should have the right to decide how much your remuneration should be.

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Those who were previously uninsured due to preexisting conditions have a point. However, those who cried that they could not afford the premiums or chose to gamble on good health should look carefully at their priorities. What is the cost of their Internet, cable, Netflix, cell phone bill, cigarettes, beer, wine, movies, drugs, fancy clothes, and restaurant meals/fast food?

Taking from those who work to pay for those who do not work is government-sanctioned stealing. Economically speaking, for every day that you have to work to pay for someone else, you are a financial slave to that person. The cheap, subsidized Obamacare policy that you receive through the exchanges is paid for by hard-working Americans, not by your Obama government.

U.S. Rep. Bradley Byrne (R-Alabama) said, "We took away the health care system that worked for 80 percent of the people of this country to fix a problem that we today know we fixed for only one percent of the American people. Only 3 million new Americans have gotten on this new health care plan that did not have insurance before, that's one percent of the American people. So we threw out the health care plan that worked for 80 percent of Americans, to fix a problem for one percent of Americans. And look what it's done! It's wrecked lives!" He continued, "This law is fundamentally flawed! This law has victimized the people of America!"

Although there have been 60 attempts to repeal Obamacare, it is here to stay. The Daily Signal wrote about the Nebraska woman whose Obamacare insurance was canceled three times. Her first cancellation was with Humana who decided to pull out of Nebraska and second and third from the Iowa nonprofit CoOpportunity Health which was liquidated and her platinum plan was no longer offered. She is now covered under a Blue Cross Blue Shield plan.

The federal government offered $2 billion in loans to nonprofit co-ops created under Obamacare (to meet state reserve requirements) and twenty-three co-ops were formed offering insurance in 26 states. According to the Daily Signal, "more than 520,000 people enrolled in insurance coverage through the co-ops through September." Their research indicated that all co-ops but one had operating losses, with outlays exceeding reserves. "Claims were eating up all the surplus and reserve [money]."

There are more troubling thoughts in this quagmire. The IRS has our medical records, will collect fines for non-compliance with Obamacare, and is going to demand refunds from those who received too much subsidy under the state exchanges. But illegal aliens are still covered for free and those with religious objections don't have to pay a penalty and are given medical care. What a relief!

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Poster Comment:

Here's yet one more article written by someone that's supposedly educated but a perfect example of a tool of the establishment.

One would think that at some point people would be able to piece the following together and draw an accurate conclusion instead of some media/establishment contrived red-herring to divide the people of this nation so that they don't rise up to defeat their real enemy.

Suddenly, millions have found themselves paying double or triple premiums, with deductibles going up from $500 to $5,000 and decreased coverage

This is the situation we've found ourselves in. We have no insurance and had none. Our medical bills as as self-pay family were almost always below $2,000/year, even with a broken ankle once. on one occasion with a knee surgery they were still well below $4,000 that year.

Now we are forced to pay much more than that annually, $10K or upwards, with just that, $5K or thereabouts deductables. So in essence, we have to pay more than we paid before for nothing, then have to buy insurance on top of that for many times more than that to boot.

And yet brilliant geniuses like this bimbo can't seem to figure out who the winners are here.

There is something seriously wrong when the monthly health care premium becomes larger than mortgage and utilities combined.

There sure is, and yet, these morons have a difficult time connecting the few dots on the page.

It is laudable to offer insurance to people previously uninsurable, but forcing other working Americans to pay for it and punishing them through IRS fines is wrong and it is a form of stealing.

Right, and it's also wrong to force other working Americans pay for other peoples' childrens "education" in public schools, but that doesn't seem to bother this lady.

It's also wrong to steal other peoples' money to pay for wars that they don't want.

It's also wrong to steal the money from other working Americans to overpay millions of government contractors in the MIC that become wealthy or earn far more than they would or should in private sector jobs, but again, this doesn't seem to be an issue for this fool.

Besides that fact that it's "the taxpayers money" anymore anyway when it's primarily debt spending, another clue that these establishment types are too astute to pick up on.

This is why we're fucked. Because people prefer to remain willfully ignorant.

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#1. To: All (#0) (Edited)

Economically speaking, for every day that you have to work to pay for someone else, you are a financial slave to that person.

Obamacare is nothing more than an order from whomever the sitting president's master is to enslave more people and render them beholden to the Shylocks.

By the way, next up community college transitioned into the public educational structure. This one will be interesting.

Right now classes at local community colleges are around $1,000/course, or $5-6K/year. Public school education ranges from $12-16K per student.

Think about that for a second, 3rd grade costs more than a year at a CC presently. Gosh, I wonder if CC prices will go up as a result. Tough one to figure out. But while the fools are arguing the same over that, no one will notice the overall price tag or question why 1st, 2nd, ... 12th grade costs as much as or more than many colleges when parents can send their kids to a private school, most, for around half of that if even half in some cases.

Not to mention homeschooling. We educate our kids for just over $1,000/year, all three.

This country is a politically divided ship of ignoramus fools!

Katniss  posted on  2015-02-21   22:10:05 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#2. To: Katniss (#1)

Obamacare is nothing more than an order from whomever the sitting president's master is to enslave more people and render them beholden to the Shylocks.

English, please.

scrapper2  posted on  2015-02-22   3:13:13 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#3. To: scrapper2 (#2) (Edited)

Seriously?

OK ...

Obamacare is not about healthcare at all. It should more aptly be termed Insurance subsidization.

Think about it, what has happened here?

People are being forced to go see doctors, pay for doctors visit that they don't need, get medical treatments in a preventative maintenance fashion that they don't need, right?

Wrong!

People are being forced to do what? Get healthcare? Hardly. They're being forced to purchase insurance, ... health insurance. I guess the forced car and home insurance industries et. al. weren't putting us into debt fast enough.

Who owns the major insurance companies? Do the homework. They're all subsidiaries of the biggest and most influential commercial banking houses, much like the so-called financial corporations, your Lehman Bros., Goldman Sachs, etc.

So this has absolutely nothing, seriously, absolutely nothing to do with providing health care. It has everything to do with funneling the resources of people into the debt creation arena, which is largely held by that same global banking syndicate, let's call them the shylocks for now, in the form of debt.

Health care premiums have gone through the roof, deductables have too.

Let me put some numbers to this for you.

We do not have health insurance, still don't, and I'm not going to cater to this crap. Call it a line in the sand. One more step and imho life simply is not worth living anymore, I'd rather go down swinging. If all of a sudden I stop posting, have Christine try to check with me on this, because it quite likely came down to my getting killed over it.

For years our health insurance costs for our entire family have typically run less than $2,000/year, often not even $1,000 for routine dental visits and stuff. Of that, if any was over around 7% of your Gross Adjusted Income, it was tax deductable. Not a dime of insurance cost is tax deductable, and must be paid with after-tax money.

Health insurance coverage for our family would now run between around $8,000 and $20,000 or so for our family, again, no a dime of which is tax deductable.

In the meantime, for the lower end of that insurance, the deductables are now typically in the $4,000-$6,000 range for a family, and usually in the $1,500-$3,000 range for an individual.

Does this make mathematical sense to you, for us to buy insurance?

I'll put it another way, if we now pay for insurance, our "medical" costs, (which really aren't "medical," are they? ... they're insurance costs) would be over on the low end over $10K.

Would we benefit, under our current for over 10 years of steady state medical needs, from this insurance?

No, hardly it at all.

So who benefits?

The insurance companies, which are merely subsidiaries of the biggest commercial banks on the planet and those that are aligned with the global big-banking syndicate, aka the shylocks, right?

Who loses? ... everyone else, right? Liberty, right?

... becoming clearer?

In the meantime, the medical industrial complex has become like the MIC, with in essence proxy-government workers now as part of the establishment much like teachers are.

If I had the resources and relocation place to move out of this country you'd see my shoes spinning in space and a cloud of dust.

Katniss  posted on  2015-02-22   10:14:04 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#4. To: Katniss (#3)

I agree that health insurance is not health care.

All health insurance does is protect your assets if you need health care.

Obamacare is a gov't enforced specific type of health insurance. It gives a consumer no choice about what one wants in health insurance.

Basically the 85% of Americans who were happy with their health insurance are now subsidizing the 15% who didn't have or want or could afford health insurance and the 85% are doing it at great cost to themselves.

Also Obamacare subsidizes a humongous expansion of gov't bureaucracy in the IRS and the Dept of Health. Gov't bureaucracy is like higher end welfare for those who can't cut it in private enterprise.

I'm with you in that regard.

But nonetheless if you have a good salary and assets I suggest you fall into line and get the cheapest version of health insurance allowed under Obamacare, because otherwise you'll be taxed by the IRS and if you have assets and get sick, your assets will be cleaned out. Obamacare is a bloated Titanic. It needs $ and the 15% Red Robins aren't going to give Obamacare enough tax $ to float this sinking healthcare "everything is free" ship.

scrapper2  posted on  2015-02-25   3:22:04 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#5. To: scrapper2 (#4)

Basically the 85% of Americans who were happy with their health insurance are now subsidizing the 15% who didn't have or want or could afford health insurance and the 85% are doing it at great cost to themselves.

Well, first of all, I read somewhere before that the uninsured were around 30%.

But secondly, everyone seems to think that many people are getting free healthcare. If you didn't have any, then you would understand, during your attempts at figuring this out, that that's not true.

We had none and there are no options for free health insurance for us. ... not that I would take that anyway as I would not. Just sayin'.

It's one of those dividing things that keep peoples' eyes focused on the political ball.

But nonetheless if you have a good salary and assets I suggest you fall into line and get the cheapest version of health insurance allowed under Obamacare, because otherwise you'll be taxed by the IRS and if you have assets and get sick, your assets will be cleaned out.

That's fine, I'm fully prepared to die over this issue.

The cheapest version offers nothing that we currently don't get due to ridiculously high deductables. Frankly, it's less expensive to simply take the penalty, which I'm never paying.

Line in the sand time.

Katniss  posted on  2015-02-25   16:09:56 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#6. To: Katniss (#5)

The 30% figure was inflated because it included those who were too uninformed or too mentally ill or derelict to realize they already qualified for Medicaid or VA Med or Medicare.

After those folks were properly signed up it came to around 15% without health insurance many of whom were young millennials who thought they were invisible or who had part time jobs and did not have job related health insurance and then there were some who had serious illnesses but lived in states that had no high risk pool health insurance.

I have a HSA high deductible insurance ( it has gone up in cost with Obamacare unfortunately) which I fear will be phased out once Obamacare fully kicks in and gets rid of those plans - HSA high deductible plans save a taxpayer way too much money and they allow a taxpayer to retain control of one's health insurance premium costs, which is a big no no with The KGB Central Planners.

scrapper2  posted on  2015-02-26   0:41:24 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#7. To: scrapper2 (#6)

That's fine, but this notion that many people are getting free health insurance (notice I didn't say care) is simply false. Some may be, but it's a cut above statistically insignificant.

This entire thing is about enslaving people, the next chunk, with more debt to essentially create more slaves.

Katniss  posted on  2015-02-26   21:48:33 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#8. To: Katniss (#7)

but this notion that many people are getting free health insurance (notice I didn't say care) is simply false.

You are wrong.

Subsidies pay for the premiums. Any family earning more than approx $95,000 is considered "rich" by Obama so they are subsidizing those below that level ( i. e. Obama voters).

Of course there are deductibles to pay if the subsidized get sick and need health care outside of what county hospitals provide.

scrapper2  posted on  2015-02-27   0:37:07 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#9. To: scrapper2 (#8)

Some, not nearly as many as people let on, is my point.

In VA it's not possible by my understanding. It's reliant on each state.

Katniss  posted on  2015-02-27   14:19:36 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#10. To: scrapper2 (#8)

Either way, touting this as free health care (for anyone) is missing the boat completely.

It's not in the least about actual healthcare, it's entirely about siphoning off even more of Americans' disposable income by forcing them to spend way more than anyone should to buy insurance, not care.

Again, anyone not understanding that is missing the boat, completely.

Katniss  posted on  2015-02-27   14:21:10 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#11. To: Katniss (#9)

Some, not nearly as many as people let on, is my point.

Your point is wrong.

7.5 Million people in 30 states receive subsidies, paid for by workie taxpayers.

www.forbes.com/sites/bruc...acare-customers-face-225- premium-increase-if-scotus-strips-subsidies/

Why do you think there is so much panic in the DemRat Party re: the outcome of the subsidy case being heard by the Supreme Court?

scrapper2  posted on  2015-02-28   3:13:12 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#12. To: Katniss (#10)

Either way, touting this as free health care (for anyone) is missing the boat completely.

Who is touting Obamacare as free health care?

You are the one who is missing the boat on this issue.

Americans are peeved because they're now paying higher premiums for policies that include access to services they don't want or will ever use; they've lost access to their doctors; their deductibles have increased significantly; they are paying for subsidies to DemRat deadbeat voters who should pay for their own insurance premiums.

Americans view Obamacare as yet another example of redistribution of wealth and they're angry because it's not fair.

scrapper2  posted on  2015-02-28   3:25:31 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#13. To: scrapper2 (#12)

Who is touting Obamacare as free health care?

You are the one who is missing the boat on this issue.

LOL

OK, it's just one of the primary neocon talking points on the issue.

Whatever. Let's move on. No sense in letting the facts ruin a good argument.

You are mired in the perceptions phase, similar to how people are mired in this idiotic notion that Islam or muslims have done a damn thing to this country to bring it to where it is now, aside from being targets and collateral damage that is.

But hey, that's precisely why these charades work so well.

Katniss  posted on  2015-03-01   10:50:41 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#14. To: scrapper2 (#11) (Edited)

7.5 Million people in 30 states receive subsidies, paid for by workie taxpayers.

Thanks for making my point for me btw.

How many more are on other aspects of public financing, including teachers, politicians, government contractors, LEOs, and let's not forget all government employees and owners and employees of big corps that get favorable political treatment forcing people to use their services.

The former is a pittance in contrast. It doesn't even rank on programs, and if you've done your homework you realize that they're not getting care, in fact those damnable exchages are essentially broken and don't work.

I'm not going to argue this anymore, believe what you will. Just remember, the next time millions upon millions are fooled, throw yourself in this group.

I've had it, 99%+ of Americans are too stupid for thier own good. As a nation we deserve every last thing we have coming to the last death, we've earned it.

Katniss  posted on  2015-03-01   10:53:46 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#15. To: Katniss (#14)

The former is a pittance in contrast.

1. The other gov't waste of taxpayer $ projects ( which you call "public financing", smirk) are not going away.

2. Obamacare is a new and growing Black Hole of tax waste project that's projected to grow leaps and bounds. It's already started to snowball, as predicted. Subsidies in themselves are unsustainable irrespective of the Supreme Court's decision expected this summer.

3. And btw when 9 out of 10 Obamacare enrollees on federal exchanges in 30+ states receive subsidies ( gratis of other taxpayers) to pay for their health premiums, it's not "a pittance."

This past year (2014) those federal exchange subsidies cost workie taxpayers - who don't get subsidies - $11 Billion. That $11 Billion "does not count the additional cost of providing coverage to millions of additional consumers who bought coverage in states that ran their own marketplaces, including California, Connecticut, Maryland and New York. About a third of the 8 million people who signed up for coverage this year used a state-run marketplace...If these state consumers received roughly comparable government assistance for their insurance premiums, the total cost of subsidies could top $16.5 billion this year....The Congressional Budget Office estimated in April that the annual cost of subsidies will rise to $23 billion next year ( 2015) and $95 billion in 2024,..." LA Times article

4. This doesn't count the cost of Obama bribing states to expand their Medicaid rolls. Workie taxpayer pay for that expansion, too. Last year there was an increase of 7.5 million people who signed up for Medicaid and CHIP.

5. Nor does it count the future numbers of millions of Americans having their jobs rolled back to part-time status, who will get subsidies because part-time work will reduce their annual incomes.

6. This doesn't count the millions of unhappy American work taxpayers like myself whose premiums got jacked in addition to having to pay for subsidies to other Obama deadbeat voters.

7. It doesn't count the Obamacare Co-Ops that enrolled 500,000 people and are costing taxpayers $17,000 per enrollee.

8. It doesn't include the costs of Obama having the IRS hire 9,000 new and benefited employees to help keep track of Obamacare.

Numbers matter when it comes to Obamacare because Obamacare is a huge new and growing entitlement boondoggle.

And no one at 4um except you has tried to deflect the discussion about the real costs of Obamacare to 85% of workie Americans. I wonder why.

scrapper2  posted on  2015-03-01   19:29:04 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#16. To: scrapper2 (#15) (Edited)

This past year (2014) those federal exchange subsidies cost workie taxpayers - who don't get subsidies - $11 Billion.

LOL

$11B is chump change anymore. We're in the Ts now.

If you think that's relevant, then that's we're our differences are.

Besides, all these costs that you cite are also primarily costs of administering the programs?

Ever worked with government contracts? Well I have. Both sides. Understand that first and you'll understand this more.

End users are getting precious little. This whole bullshit about Americans, many that are wealthy or living off of monies derived from government interference in commerce, most without having the first damn clue about it, bitching about others getting free healthcare are sorely mistaken.

Sure, you continue to make rule out of exception, again, feel free.

But this is nothing more than a device to divide people further. Even those on the exchanges are not getting any kind of care, there's one nightmare tale after the next about how they aren't even working.

You need to do a lot more research.

Otherwise, keep believing it and become part of the problem. We are so far beyond a few tens of billions meaning shit anymore.

I know quite a few small independent business people that are either simply not getting health insurance, like us, and willing to risk whatever consequences are in play, or buying their own, which are far fewer in number.

What I find funny here is that so few people talk about this but everyone seems to either have a job that covers their healthcare or has it built into their retirement or other government checks whether they be medicare or whatever.

Seriously, how many people here are completely without coverage and have looked at the options? You?

Here's just a glimpse, on a quick few-second google, of where these costs are actually going, most if not all are not to the end user.

Healthcare Fails

I realize that's state taxes, but the administrative structure for the Feds is no different, if anything, much worse. This is how government contractors, primarily in the MIC but hardly limited to it, become millionaires off of just a few contracts that their companies get.

Either way, all those that make their living off of the MIC, where I used to work but quit, outright, for moral reasons, by far and away, as in not even on the same scale, put any monies spent on people getting "free healthcare" to open shame.

My point is that those same people are bitching the loudest about this, which to me is the utmost in hypocrisy. I fail to see how anyone in agreement with them is also not a hypocrite, and that's a very good chunk of the country.

Fiscally speaking, if we could dismantle this satanic MIC immediately and give people free healthcare for real, we'd be worlds ahead on numerous fronts.

Maybe in another few years we'll have a fully government sponsored health insurance system, and note that I usually avoid the term health care because none of this has to do with actual care, but until that happens, so far it's a drop in the bucket of what this nation spends on the biggest culprit programs. And if we do get to a point where the vast majority are on that government program, expect Behind Iron Curtain style and quality of service, but we'll have much bigger fish to fry. By then our country will have been completely stolen blind by the bankers that own the insurance companies.

Katniss  posted on  2015-03-01   21:43:03 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#17. To: scrapper2 (#15) (Edited)

BTW, I'm not going to respond to this anymore. If you want to get bogged down in the irrelevancies of this, please feel free. In fact, you may as well, everyone else is.

I just guess that I thought that posters here understood that much better than that. Some see the symptoms, others see the core issues and some can't and don't.

Katniss  posted on  2015-03-01   21:45:28 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#18. To: Katniss (#16)

Obamacare costs are expected to accelerate to $2 Trillion in a few short years.

MIC costs are not going away.

What you refer to as "chump change" is a new entitlement that is predicted to increase by 6% every year.

Do you understand?

MIC costs are not going away.

Obamacare is a NEW black hole of gov't tax waste in addition to MIC costs.

You're a typical lefty. Duh - well, by comparison, MIC costs are way more. And duh - no one is getting any care even with Obamacare. And duh, "the gov't" can afford it. And duh, these numbers confuse me so I'm going to take my marbles and go away.

It's clueless lefty's like you who make me ill.

scrapper2  posted on  2015-03-01   22:04:40 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#19. To: scrapper2 (#18)

Obamacare costs are expected to accelerate to $2 Trillion in a few short years.

MIC costs are not going away.

What you refer to as "chump change" is a new entitlement that is predicted to increase by 6% every year.

Do you understand?

MIC costs are not going away.

Obamacare is a NEW black hole of gov't tax waste in addition to MIC costs.

You're a typical lefty. Duh - well, by comparison, MIC costs are way more. And duh - no one is getting any care even with Obamacare. And duh, "the gov't" can afford it. And duh, these numbers confuse me so I'm going to take my marbles and go away.

It's clueless lefty's like you who make me ill.

LOL

Yeah, that's me, Mr. Lefty. You're a fool. Really, you're a fool.

You also just betrayed yourself. Let's talk about that $2T when it gets there. That's been my point all along, and I can't possibly have made it any clearer, that it's chump change RIGHT NOW!

Call me whatever names you want, but at least I'm not an illiterate buffoon that can't separate myself from political philosophies that are the core tool used to divide Americans, such as yourself, that then react to perceptions and not to the core issues.

Don't worry though, people like that, like you apparently, will be the ones to drive this to the next level.

That and the Muslim haters that will hate people halfway around the world so much that the rights of everyone here, or what TF's left of them, are completely ignored with judicial recourse having become a thing of legend.

Nice job though in your approach! Done like a true establishmentarian.

NICE!

And people actually wonder why we're so fucked.

Katniss  posted on  2015-03-01   22:16:45 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#20. To: Katniss (#19) (Edited)

hat's been my point all along, and I can't possibly have made it any clearer, that it's chump change RIGHT NOW!

You don't get it. Obamacare costs are not chump change. Not only are the costs increasing exponentially for subsidies, but the bureaucracy at the IRS and Dept of Health are also expanding at the same rate, all benefited gov't positions, in addition to the fact these 2 agencies have acquired uncharted new powers, and Obamacare is redistributing wealth from workies to takers which is unsustainable and it rewards people to stay under employed and dependent on gov't.

You're the type of uneducated single issue blinkers blinded lefty voter who is bringing down this nation. MIC, MIC, MIC.

The Katniss moniker you've chosen for yourself is a tell sign - you are too full of yourself to comprehend your intellectual inadequacies. And I'm guessing you are not a victim of redistribution of wealth but rather the opposite.

scrapper2  posted on  2015-03-02   0:08:01 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#21. To: scrapper2 (#20)

As I said, you're a fool.

Obamacare has absolutely nothing to do with actual health care. The fact that you truly think that it does renders you the fool that you are.

You are also quite oblivious to me, you don't know me, you have no right to judge me as you have, and you are far more than wrong.

Then again, you are clearly a fool, and I don't particularly pay too much attention to fools.

Now, is there anything else? If not, go on being the political tool that you are and go back to no doubt collecting whatever form of government monies you accept while labeling others liberals.

And please, quit with the petty and intellectually cheap name-calling, talk about betraying oneself, it merely emphasizes the fact that you are foolish in your thinking, and I use the term thinking and the implications towards thought loosely.

Katniss  posted on  2015-03-02   9:40:54 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#22. To: Katniss (#21)

Obamacare has absolutely nothing to do with actual health care.

Who said anything about health care except for you?

I've been talking about the cost of Obamacare health insurance.

As for name calling, you did it first.

You're off your meds, sparky, and it's showing.

scrapper2  posted on  2015-03-02   11:36:35 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#23. To: scrapper2 (#22)

Scrapper, you've now contradicted yourself and laid out false facts, presumably in your rage here, numerous times.

You said the following near the top of this;

But nonetheless if you have a good salary and assets I suggest you fall into line and get the cheapest version of health insurance allowed under Obamacare, because otherwise you'll be taxed by the IRS and if you have assets and get sick, your assets will be cleaned out. Obamacare is a bloated Titanic. It needs $ and the 15% Red Robins aren't going to give Obamacare enough tax $ to float this sinking healthcare "everything is free" ship.

First of all, there is no tax, it's a typical money grab from tax returns due. Secondly, there are a wealth of exemptions from the program is one qualifies, merely proving what this program really is.

Thirdly, you're the one that said that 15% of the uninsured are now on the Fed dole for this, and that the costs were south of $20B. So let's assume that's true. We'll lean conservatively for the sake of argument, and in your favor on this to keep you from blowing another fuse.

15% of over 300M people is more than 45M, so let's use that figure.

Let's round your cost statement up to $20B. So, if this is true, then "taxpayer" money, really nothing but federal debt at this point, not really from taxes collected, then the average cost, again, using numbers leaning in your favor that you provided, means that each of those 15% of people are being covered are being covered at a rate of approximately $400 apiece.

Now, I'm hardly in favor of the government providing anything for anyone, especially when it comes in packages mark "to Protect and Serve ..." or the like, but if this were true, then wouldn't you consider that to be a monumental success for a government that spends approximately $15K/student, all the way around, for 3rd grade say? Or 7th grade, ... any K-12?

I would. Hence, it's hardly true.

Besides, people can still pay for themselves. In the small business community my peers are saying the same thing that's obvious anyway, they'll risk the penalties because it's still less expensive than paying $20K for something they/we don't need, don't want, can't afford, and which has a deductable that's as much as the penalties, sometimes more, rendering the entire thing senseless from a business perspective.

I only pointed that out because I'm not quite sure that you even know what you're arguing here. You cannot get/use establishment presented "facts" but then use arguments that the establishment does not use because they don't make much sense with their "facts" as the backdrop, yet, that's what you're doing.

Anyway, right now Obamacare, which is really little more than the domestic monetary version of the Patriot Act and all of its provisions increasing our taxes, fees, and costs that are largely received by the establishment's big-corp pets. So I don't know why so-called conservatives (neocons primarily) are getting their panties all in a bunch after what's transpired over the last 14 years or so.

Well, actually I do, it's willful ignorance or stupidity, just sayin'.

Katniss  posted on  2015-03-03   9:17:02 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#24. To: Katniss (#23)

Speed, much?

scrapper2  posted on  2015-04-09   2:54:27 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


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