Title: Judge Napolitano: Lincoln Set About On The Most Murderous War In American History Source:
[None] URL Source:[None] Published:Mar 9, 2015 Author:Judge Andrew Napolitano Post Date:2015-03-09 12:57:06 by James Deffenbach Keywords:None Views:1583 Comments:92
It's not clear if slavery was the *reason*, your honor?
South Carolina Statement of Secession:
'The General Government, as the common agent, passed laws to carry into effect these stipulations of the States. For many years these laws were executed. But an increasing hostility on the part of the non-slaveholding States to the institution of slavery, has led to a disregard of their obligations, and the laws of the General Government have ceased to effect the objects of the Constitution. "
Georgia:
"The people of Georgia having dissolved their political connection with the Government of the United States of America, present to their confederates and the world the causes which have led to the separation. For the last ten years we have had numerous and serious causes of complaint against our non-slave-holding confederate States with reference to the subject of African slavery."
Mississippi:
In the momentous step which our State has taken of dissolving its connection with the government of which we so long formed a part, it is but just that we should declare the prominent reasons which have induced our course.
Our position is thoroughly identified with the institution of slavery-- the greatest material interest of the world. Its labor supplies the product which constitutes by far the largest and most important portions of commerce of the earth.
war, look at when the Emancipation Proclamation was signed, a year-and-a-half into the war.
Slavery wasn't not only the primary reason, it wasn't even on the short list at the start of the war. Lincoln and The Union signed it so as to avoid France from entering the war on the side of the Confederacy, for no other reason.
This myth that the American Civil War was fought over slavery is yet one more example of how our history books are littered with propaganda.
In fact, the Emancipation Proclamation did not even apply to the states in The Union, so how was it to be that the war was fought over that when numerous Union generals had slaves, plural? That's impossible.
One more whitewashing of history, but that's the norm. So too is it the norm for few to actually figure that out for one or more reasons.
In fact, the Emancipation Proclamation did not even apply to the states in The Union
Given that it was first issued as an ultimatum unique to the States in rebellion and then a month or so later as a decree against the States in rebellion to cripple their war effort, why would it have applied to the *Union*? None of those states were in rebellion.
To me, you are offering an example of how the reasoning behind the EP has been bastardized through the years. It had one target...the cSA's war effort and no higher purpose.
BTW, it also made immune certain sections of NOLA...
Given that it was first issued as an ultimatum unique to the States in rebellion and then a month or so later as a decree against the States in rebellion to cripple their war effort, why would it have applied to the *Union*? None of those states were in rebellion.
To me, you are offering an example of how the reasoning behind the EP has been bastardized through the years. It had one target...the cSA's war effort and no higher purpose.
You just contradicted your prior post here.
Why would it apply to the states not in rebellion?
You serious?
It's called moral high ground and integrity. We comment here constantly about how our liberties at home have been trounced and quenched, as we "fight for liberty" around the globe.
Surely you cannot believe what you're pitching about the Civil War.
No matter how you slice it, if the war was primarily about slavery, then freeing only slaves in the Confederacy would make zero sense.
"Do I contradict myself...very well...I contradict myself...I am large...I contain multitudes..."
t's called moral high ground and integrity. We comment here constantly about how our liberties at home have been trounced and quenched, as we "fight for liberty" around the globe.
Um...uh...in the 19th century we had no such policy as we weren't in to Empire Building. I may *judge* history, as I sit here today, only if I limit my judgement to the *events* of history and not the *ethics* of it.
Ethics belong to the philosophers not the historians.
We also comment here, from time to time, about what the Framers and Founders *envisioned* and *created*. Some were drunkards and some were elitists, fornicators, slave holders, and some were corrupt businessmen who gained their wealth through the Black Market. Should I reject what they have created based upon my 21st century *sense* of morality?
No matter how you slice it, if the war was primarily about slavery, then freeing only slaves in the Confederacy would make zero sense.
Non-sequitur...had Lincoln made the EP universal, he most likely would have lost the support of the border states. Most of those States had their own internal *hot* wars going on.
You really need to ask yourself this question: If there was NO slavery in the US, would there have been a Civil War?
There is no way that the question can be answered *yes* with a high degree of probability.
When you add slavery and the political and legislative conflagrations that the issue had been causing since the FOUNDING then the *probability* rises to near certainly.
I had a bad tag in this post which is why it was *EDITED* but neither of your links work.
If there was NO slavery in the US, would there have been a Civil War?
There is no way that the question can be answered *yes* with a high degree of probability.
Yes, with a high degree of probability because swarms of warmongers agitated methodically then, before that and as they still do now to achieve their massive slaughters and destructions. The only difference to them would have been that they couldn't have instigated for slave revolts to massacre Southerners like they were doing, even though there were northern slave-holding states throughout the entire war and even D.C. had some there.
Neither secession or the war started over slavery. Lincoln's election and attempted takeover of South Carolina's property, Fort Sumter, caused all of that. Even so, 8 slave States didn't move to secede when South Carolina did first and then 6 others. Months later, 4 of the 8 decided to secede, too -- in objection to Lincoln's use of force when it was clear that he was going to invade the South. So, do the math and that'll give you the answer to how many Union slave States there were.
Btw, northern states were the first to move for secession in America's history and, until the American Revolution ended, slavery on this continent was the business of Britain and other nations. General Robert E. Lee freed his slaves before going to war. General U.S. Grant didn't free his until after the war when he had to. South America had more slaves than we did and Native Americans were the last slaveholders here.
Here is a link that explains some the THE SOUTHERN SIDE OF THE CIVIL WAR: States' Rights, taxation/tariffs enriching the North and impoverishing the South, Northern domination politically and of electoral votes, the new Republican Party of Lincoln excluding Southerners, federal protectionism and subsidies for Northern business interests...
...even though there were northern slave-holding states throughout the entire war and even D.C. had some there.
The border states were not *Northern* states but were all below Mason-Dixon. There were no states North of Mason Dixon that allowed slavery.
Neither secession or the war started over slavery. Lincoln's election and attempted takeover of South Carolina's property, Fort Sumter, caused all of tha
Fort Sumter was US government property. When South Carolina seceded they declared their sovereign soil. So, yea, secession was at the root of Sumter.
States' Rights, taxation/tariffs enriching the North and impoverishing the South
Those taxes and tariffs were *punishment* for slavery...again...read the statements of secession...
...even though there were northern slave-holding states throughout the entire war and even D.C. had some there.
The border states were not *Northern* states but were all below Mason-Dixon. There were no states North of Mason Dixon that allowed slavery.
Did I say "border states"? No, I didn't. You did. We're not discussing the Mason-Dixon line's colonial border disputes of Pennsylvania, Maryland, Delaware but the war between the Union and the Confederacy aka "The North" and "The South". Go ahead, though, and read the "northern" phrasing as "Union slave-holding states" instead, if that helps to clarify. Btw, the Mason-Dixon line extended into what was part of Confederate Virginia until that region of it seceded to the Union and became West Virginia -- its 5th slaveholding border State, which does span well north of the supposed "cultural boundary" between the North and the South. The other four slaveholding border States of the Union were Delaware, Maryland, Kentucky and Missouri. New Jersey and New Hampshire were two more slaveholding Union States that were well above the Mason-Dixon line.
Most northern states passed legislation for gradual abolition, first freeing children born to slave mothers (and providing for them to serve indentures to their mother's masters, often into their 20s as young adults). As a result of this gradualist approach, New York did not free its last slaves until 1827, Rhode Island had five slaves still listed in the 1840 census, Pennsylvania's last slaves were freed in 1847, Connecticut did not completely abolish slavery until 1848, slavery was not completely lifted in New Hampshire and New Jersey until the nationwide emancipation in 1865.
Me: Did I say "border states"? No, I didn't. You did
You: And I was correct when I *said* it.
Me: Btw, the Mason-Dixon line extended into what was part of Confederate Virginia until that region of it seceded to the Union
You: IRC, the Line did not include what is now the WVA panhandle...
No, you weren't correct when you said at #22: "There were no states North of Mason Dixon that allowed slavery." Even though you misinterpreted my point at paragraph 1 of #20 in regard to the Union's slaveholding States (northward of the Confederacy but see also the westerly U.S. territories) throughout the entire war, as if that pertained to border states only, you should easily be able to confirm that WVA still spans well above the Mason Dixon line -- as does New Jersey and New Hampshire referenced at #30, which were two more northern slaveholding States of the Union all during the war and not border States only (which you seemingly overlook as excusable). Those slaveholding States (one of them -- New Hampshire -- squarely in New England) in addition to the 5 border States amount to fully 1/3 of the Union being slave States and Lincoln's "Emancipation Proclamation" freed none of them from slavery. It was a year into the war before slavery in the Union's own capitol-city of Washington D.C. was monetarily facilitated towards being ended there by the District of Columbia Compensated Emancipation Act. Even with that, the fugitive slave laws still applied and D.C. was reportedly among slaveholders after the war until slavery was officially abolished by the Thirteenth Amendment [Ref. Slavery in the United States: The end of slavery - Wikipedia].
You've also been provided evidence that Blacks were slave owners here too. Native Americans were the last to free their slaves after the war, Military personnel of the Union were among the last and Lincoln himself was married to the daughter of a slave owner. As I recall, we even had to abolish slavery in America again after we acquired Alaska from Russia. At the time of the "Civil War", America was still a new nation struggling to become strong enough to free itself from the business of slavery that other nations had entrenched here. Even so, a quarter of a million lives could have been spared by a Compensated Emancipation transition for less than it cost financially to wage that war. Your compulsion to exonerate "the North" and blame "the South" by arguing against the encompassing evidence in a narrowed misfocus on Slavery as "righteous justification" or whatever for the slaughter and carnage very nearly borders irrationally on the absurb but is rather worse than that, imo. More like barbarous in a "horrific ends justify the annihilative means, however unnecessarily" sort of way.
"There were no states North of Mason Dixon that allowed slavery."
There was one...Delaware...sorry...I stand corrected...
You've also been provided evidence that Blacks were slave owners here too.
Can you point out where I have disputed that?
America was still a new nation struggling to become strong enough to free itself from the business of slavery that other nations had entrenched here.
Huh? You sound like my neighbor. He's a high end general contractor who seems to be on a mission to educate everyone about the *evils* of illegal immigration. 75% of this *workforce* is itinerant Hispanic labor. So It Goes.
The subject of ending slavery was contemporary to just about every eve3nt that led to the Revolution. America did that to itself. We cannot blame other nations.
Even so, a quarter of a million lives could have been spared by a Compensated Emancipation transition for less than it cost financially to wage that war.
Legal manumission was free. You, yourself, stated that states could determine if slaveholding was legal or not.
Your compulsion to exonerate "the North" and blame "the South" by arguing against the encompassing evidence in a narrowed misfocus on Slavery as "righteous justification" or whatever for the slaughter and carnage very nearly borders irrationally on the absurb (sic) but is rather worse than that, imo.
I haven't exonerated anyone. What I have done is state, factually, that slavery was at the root of the issues that have been cited that caused the Civil War.
I haven't exonerated anyone. What I have done is state, factually, that slavery was at the root of the issues that have been cited that caused the Civil War.
war, no matter how insistently you push slavery as the root cause of the Civil War, starkly at the root of slavery it's a property and economics issue among the divisive others and not simply a bondage issue of injustice, racially or otherwise.
Spelling edit and to move an appended block of text to another post.