Title: Judge Napolitano: Lincoln Set About On The Most Murderous War In American History Source:
[None] URL Source:[None] Published:Mar 9, 2015 Author:Judge Andrew Napolitano Post Date:2015-03-09 12:57:06 by James Deffenbach Keywords:None Views:1162 Comments:92
It's not clear if slavery was the *reason*, your honor?
South Carolina Statement of Secession:
'The General Government, as the common agent, passed laws to carry into effect these stipulations of the States. For many years these laws were executed. But an increasing hostility on the part of the non-slaveholding States to the institution of slavery, has led to a disregard of their obligations, and the laws of the General Government have ceased to effect the objects of the Constitution. "
Georgia:
"The people of Georgia having dissolved their political connection with the Government of the United States of America, present to their confederates and the world the causes which have led to the separation. For the last ten years we have had numerous and serious causes of complaint against our non-slave-holding confederate States with reference to the subject of African slavery."
Mississippi:
In the momentous step which our State has taken of dissolving its connection with the government of which we so long formed a part, it is but just that we should declare the prominent reasons which have induced our course.
Our position is thoroughly identified with the institution of slavery-- the greatest material interest of the world. Its labor supplies the product which constitutes by far the largest and most important portions of commerce of the earth.
war, look at when the Emancipation Proclamation was signed, a year-and-a-half into the war.
Slavery wasn't not only the primary reason, it wasn't even on the short list at the start of the war. Lincoln and The Union signed it so as to avoid France from entering the war on the side of the Confederacy, for no other reason.
This myth that the American Civil War was fought over slavery is yet one more example of how our history books are littered with propaganda.
In fact, the Emancipation Proclamation did not even apply to the states in The Union, so how was it to be that the war was fought over that when numerous Union generals had slaves, plural? That's impossible.
One more whitewashing of history, but that's the norm. So too is it the norm for few to actually figure that out for one or more reasons.
In fact, the Emancipation Proclamation did not even apply to the states in The Union
Given that it was first issued as an ultimatum unique to the States in rebellion and then a month or so later as a decree against the States in rebellion to cripple their war effort, why would it have applied to the *Union*? None of those states were in rebellion.
To me, you are offering an example of how the reasoning behind the EP has been bastardized through the years. It had one target...the cSA's war effort and no higher purpose.
BTW, it also made immune certain sections of NOLA...
Given that it was first issued as an ultimatum unique to the States in rebellion and then a month or so later as a decree against the States in rebellion to cripple their war effort, why would it have applied to the *Union*? None of those states were in rebellion.
To me, you are offering an example of how the reasoning behind the EP has been bastardized through the years. It had one target...the cSA's war effort and no higher purpose.
You just contradicted your prior post here.
Why would it apply to the states not in rebellion?
You serious?
It's called moral high ground and integrity. We comment here constantly about how our liberties at home have been trounced and quenched, as we "fight for liberty" around the globe.
Surely you cannot believe what you're pitching about the Civil War.
No matter how you slice it, if the war was primarily about slavery, then freeing only slaves in the Confederacy would make zero sense.
"Do I contradict myself...very well...I contradict myself...I am large...I contain multitudes..."
t's called moral high ground and integrity. We comment here constantly about how our liberties at home have been trounced and quenched, as we "fight for liberty" around the globe.
Um...uh...in the 19th century we had no such policy as we weren't in to Empire Building. I may *judge* history, as I sit here today, only if I limit my judgement to the *events* of history and not the *ethics* of it.
Ethics belong to the philosophers not the historians.
We also comment here, from time to time, about what the Framers and Founders *envisioned* and *created*. Some were drunkards and some were elitists, fornicators, slave holders, and some were corrupt businessmen who gained their wealth through the Black Market. Should I reject what they have created based upon my 21st century *sense* of morality?
No matter how you slice it, if the war was primarily about slavery, then freeing only slaves in the Confederacy would make zero sense.
Non-sequitur...had Lincoln made the EP universal, he most likely would have lost the support of the border states. Most of those States had their own internal *hot* wars going on.
You really need to ask yourself this question: If there was NO slavery in the US, would there have been a Civil War?
There is no way that the question can be answered *yes* with a high degree of probability.
When you add slavery and the political and legislative conflagrations that the issue had been causing since the FOUNDING then the *probability* rises to near certainly.
I had a bad tag in this post which is why it was *EDITED* but neither of your links work.
If there was NO slavery in the US, would there have been a Civil War?
There is no way that the question can be answered *yes* with a high degree of probability.
Yes, with a high degree of probability because swarms of warmongers agitated methodically then, before that and as they still do now to achieve their massive slaughters and destructions. The only difference to them would have been that they couldn't have instigated for slave revolts to massacre Southerners like they were doing, even though there were northern slave-holding states throughout the entire war and even D.C. had some there.
Neither secession or the war started over slavery. Lincoln's election and attempted takeover of South Carolina's property, Fort Sumter, caused all of that. Even so, 8 slave States didn't move to secede when South Carolina did first and then 6 others. Months later, 4 of the 8 decided to secede, too -- in objection to Lincoln's use of force when it was clear that he was going to invade the South. So, do the math and that'll give you the answer to how many Union slave States there were.
Btw, northern states were the first to move for secession in America's history and, until the American Revolution ended, slavery on this continent was the business of Britain and other nations. General Robert E. Lee freed his slaves before going to war. General U.S. Grant didn't free his until after the war when he had to. South America had more slaves than we did and Native Americans were the last slaveholders here.
Here is a link that explains some the THE SOUTHERN SIDE OF THE CIVIL WAR: States' Rights, taxation/tariffs enriching the North and impoverishing the South, Northern domination politically and of electoral votes, the new Republican Party of Lincoln excluding Southerners, federal protectionism and subsidies for Northern business interests...
...even though there were northern slave-holding states throughout the entire war and even D.C. had some there.
The border states were not *Northern* states but were all below Mason-Dixon. There were no states North of Mason Dixon that allowed slavery.
Neither secession or the war started over slavery. Lincoln's election and attempted takeover of South Carolina's property, Fort Sumter, caused all of tha
Fort Sumter was US government property. When South Carolina seceded they declared their sovereign soil. So, yea, secession was at the root of Sumter.
States' Rights, taxation/tariffs enriching the North and impoverishing the South
Those taxes and tariffs were *punishment* for slavery...again...read the statements of secession...
No it was not. The US government isn't the property owner of our States and Territories. US government property would be like office supplies donated to it by businesses and not purchased with our taxes. Even D.C. isn't the property of "the government" but all of the United States plural.
Committee on Federal Relations In the House of Representatives, December 31st, 1836
"The Committee on Federal relations, to which was referred the Governor's message, relating to the site of Fort Sumter, in the harbour of Charleston, and the report of the Committee on Federal Relations from the Senate on the same subject, beg leave to Report by Resolution:
"Resolved, That this state do cede to the United States, all the right, title and claim of South Carolina to the site of Fort Sumter and the requisite quantity of adjacent territory, Provided, That all processes, civil and criminal issued under the authority of this State, or any officer thereof, shall and may be served and executed upon the same, and any person there being who may be implicated by law; and that the said land, site and structures enumerated, shall be forever exempt from liability to pay any tax to this state.
"Also resolved: That the State shall extinguish the claim, if any valid claim there be, of any individuals under the authority of this State, to the land hereby ceded.
"Also resolved, That the Attorney-General be instructed to investigate the claims of Wm. Laval and others to the site of Fort Sumter, and adjacent land contiguous thereto; and if he shall be of the opinion that these parties have a legal title to the said land, that Generals Hamilton and Hayne and James L. Pringle, Thomas Bennett and Ker. Boyce, Esquires, be appointed Commissioners on behalf of the State, to appraise the value thereof. If the Attorney-General should be of the opinion that the said title is not legal and valid, that he proceed by seire facius of other proper legal proceedings to have the same avoided; and that the Attorney-General and the said Commissioners report to the Legislature at its next session.
"Resolved, That this House to agree. Ordered that it be sent to the Senate for concurrence. By order of the House:
"T. W. Glover, C. H. R." "In Senate, December 21st, 1836
You at #22: Fort Sumter was US government property.
Me at #29: No it was not. The US government isn't the property owner of our States and Territories. US government property would be like office supplies donated to it by businesses and not purchased with our taxes. Even D.C. isn't the property of "the government" but all of the United States plural.
You at #40: Sure it was and, in fact, still is.
Committee on Federal Relations In the House of Representatives, December 31st, 1836
"The Committee on Federal relations, to which was referred the Governor's message, relating to the site of Fort Sumter, in the harbour of Charleston, and the report of the Committee on Federal Relations from the Senate on the same subject, beg leave to Report by Resolution:
"Resolved, That this state do cede to the United States, all the right, title and claim of South Carolina to the site of Fort Sumter and the requisite quantity of adjacent territory, Provided, That all processes, civil and criminal issued under the authority of this State, or any officer thereof, shall and may be served and executed upon the same, and any person there being who may be implicated by law; and that the said land, site and structures enumerated, shall be forever exempt from liability to pay any tax to this state.
"Also resolved: That the State shall extinguish the claim, if any valid claim there be, of any individuals under the authority of this State, to the land hereby ceded.
"Also resolved, That the Attorney-General be instructed to investigate the claims of Wm. Laval and others to the site of Fort Sumter, and adjacent land contiguous thereto; and if he shall be of the opinion that these parties have a legal title to the said land, that Generals Hamilton and Hayne and James L. Pringle, Thomas Bennett and Ker. Boyce, Esquires, be appointed Commissioners on behalf of the State, to appraise the value thereof. If the Attorney-General should be of the opinion that the said title is not legal and valid, that he proceed by seire facius of other proper legal proceedings to have the same avoided; and that the Attorney-General and the said Commissioners report to the Legislature at its next session.
"Resolved, That this House to agree. Ordered that it be sent to the Senate for concurrence. By order of the House:
"T. W. Glover, C. H. R." "In Senate, December 21st, 1836
Don't try to pass off that Committee on Federal Relations review as Congressionally titling D.C. to Fort Sumter. It didn't. And undoubtedly you're not as totally oblivious (as you seem to be acting in this case) to the dissolution of prior agreements when governmental bonds are no longer mutually recognized as valid. Reference the withdrawl of American colonies from Britain comparative to South Carolina's withdrawl from the Union in that aspect -- and that Revolutionary founding of the States as Sovereign Republics of a voluntary Union which acts equitably for them in accordance with our Constitution is still the correct view in perpetuity, regardless of how many govbot claims have accrued to the contrary since then. The difference secessionally now is that individuals opposed to the Constitution have been seceding from it, as well as their rogue commercial entities and such, not our States -- all of which are established in agreement with it.
Lincoln won the November election of 1860 because all but 30 of the required electoral vote tally of 152 to do so were concentrated in 6 northern States. Even then, South Carolina considered staying in the Union for about a month and a half until December 20th, when it seceded alone and peacefully before Lincoln was officially inaugurated. Even the firing of warning shots in January of 1861 to turn back ships sent to Fort Sumter then wasn't construed by Buchanan as cause for war, who was still President of the Union at the time. That episode of Federal encroachment, though, did effectively prompt some other States to secede. When Lincoln was officiated into office March 4, he began moving to invade by Military force and seizure of Fort Sumter, which prompted more States to secede. Even after he had maliciously done that, South Carolina tried to peacefully negotiate an evacuation from its premises which was refused. South Carolina was within its self-defense rights to dislodge what amounted to an armed and hostile foreign power inserting itself dictatorially and advantageously into its midst.
"In July 1861, after the First Battle of Manassas (Bull Run) had been fought, the U.S. Congress passed a resolution, by an overwhelming majority, that declared the war was not being fought to disturb slavery, nor to subjugate the South, but only to 'maintain the Union.'" -- THE SOUTHERN SIDE OF THE CIVIL WAR:
Edited for punctuation + sentences 1, 5 and 6 of comment paragraph 2.
Don't try to pass off that Committee on Federal Relations review as Congressionally titling D.C. to Fort Sumter. It didn't. And undoubtedly you're not as totally oblivious (as you seem to be acting in this case) to the dissolution of prior agreements when governmental bonds are no longer mutually recognized as valid.
That's like saying that if Sears bought Best Buy and you had bought your TV from Best Buy, that Sears could confiscate it for resale.
The land purchase was an act of Commerce.
"In July 1861, after the First Battle of Manassas (Bull Run) had been fought, the U.S. Congress passed a resolution, by an overwhelming majority, that declared the war was not being fought to disturb slavery, nor to subjugate the South, but only to 'maintain the Union."
I'm aware of the Crittenden Resolution and have stated here that a good case is made that the war was fought to preserve the Union. That is a separate issue form the casus belli the root of which was slavery...neither of you have addressed what I have asked you to address...would there have been a Civil War had slavery not existed?
I'm aware of the Crittenden Resolution and have stated here that a good case is made that the war was fought to preserve the Union. That is a separate issue form the casus belli the root of which was slavery...
Comments previously at #55 moved here: Try to stay mindful of fact that slavery was protected by the U.S. Constitution. As such and also conjunctive with all of the Union's slave states and territories, it cannot reasonably be assigned as the flashpoint for war.