See other Editorial Articles
Title: The Fall of the South: A Sesquicentennial Wake By Bill Buppert
Source:
ZeroGov
URL Source: http://zerogov.com/?p=3964
Published: Apr 10, 2015
Author: Bill Buppert
Post Date: 2015-04-10 12:45:59 by X-15
Keywords: None
Views: 4618
Comments: 204
“So far from engaging in a war to perpetuate slavery, I am rejoiced that slavery is abolished. I believe it will be greatly for the interests of the South. So fully am I satisfied of this, as regards Virginia especially, that I would cheerfully have lost all I have lost by the war, and have suffered all I have suffered, to have this object attained.” -Statement to John Leyburn (1 May 1870), as quoted in R. E. Lee: A Biography (1934) by Douglas Southall Freeman. On this day, 9 April in 1865, the Lincolnian project to enslave the entire nation under the yoke of Union supremacy, central planning and a country administered by national political fiat and the naked fist of government aggression prevailed. The South and the Confederacy for all it flaws died at Appomattox. Lee is often erroneously quoted as saying the following: “Governor, if I had foreseen the use those people designed to make of their victory, there would have been no surrender at Appomattox Courthouse; no sir, not by me. Had I foreseen these results of subjugation, I would have preferred to die at Appomattox with my brave men, my sword in my right hand. Supposed made to Governor Fletcher S. Stockdale (September 1870), as quoted in The Life and Letters of Robert Lewis Dabney, pp. 497-500.” No lesser literary luminaries and historians have said this is false than Douglas Southall Freeman, Shelby Dade Foote, Jr. and Bruce Catton. This appears to be historical myth-making by Mr. Dabney. My casual research and interest in Lee find this simply does not fit in his character; now there were certainly Confederate worthies who professed such sympathies. Lee is certainly one of the greatest captains of arms in the history of the West. A far more competent and talented warrior than the base incompetency and abject martial malpractice of George Washington; he joins the ranks of Douglas Haig (WWI) and Pompey (Rome) for an exaggerated sense of warrior skills untethered to reality. Lee was at the forefront of a Confederate high tide that was destroyed by the Gettysburg debacle and worsening political travails in the South as Davis tried to emulate the Sovietized system of the Union to salvage a victory. At least the South fought to fight a just war in defending their own soil from invasion. I am amused at Union apologists who claim that the South fired the first shot at Fort Sumter. Let me employ a tortured analogy; you buy a house and the owners refuse to vacate and bring friends with guns to ensure you can’t possession of your rightful property. Such was the case in Sumter where the Fort commanded the entry and exit to richest transportation hub in the south employing constant threats against the indigenous community it sat in the middle of. The War Between the States was a Second American Revolution, the last gasp of trying to unshackle the nation from the Constitutional straitjacket that extinguished liberty at every turn. Alexander Stephens, the Vice president of the Confederacy had other ideas. He is no hero of abolition nor a moral man in regards the disposition of humans in chains: “Our new government is founded upon exactly the opposite idea; its foundations are laid, its corner- stone rests, upon the great truth that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery subordination to the superior race is his natural and normal condition. This, our new government, is the first, in the history of the world, based upon this great physical, philosophical, and moral truth.” Lincoln claimed this was his only disagreement with Stephens but the curious ability of Lincoln to free all slaves outside his legal jurisdiction and maintain it within his control regime. Historian Clarence Carson has astutely commented: “It should be noted, however, that as of the moment it was issued and to the best of Lincoln’s knowledge, the proclamation did not free a single slave. It did not free a slave in Maryland, Delaware, Kentucky, Missouri, West Virginia, nor in any state or portions of a state within the Confederacy occupied by Union troops…In short, Lincoln freed only those slaves over which he had no control. No doubt that was by design.” As Al Benson Jr. notes: “What it amounted to was, that, as an effective propaganda tool, the proclamation freed only those slaves that the North had no jurisdiction over and it didn’t free any slaves over which the North had some jurisdiction.” Author Webb Garrison, a former dean of Emory University noted that: “…the Emancipation Proclamation was a war measure – not an edict issued in a dramatic move to better the lives of blacks. No one knew this better than the author of the proclamation. Nine months after it was issued, he told Salmon P. Chase ‘The original proclamation has no constitutional or legal justification except as a military measure’.” There was no major politician except Charles Sumner on either side interested in the least in emancipation much less abolition of black chattel slavery. Sumner would famously ask Lincoln: “Do you know who is at this moment the largest slaveholder in the United States?” Sumner informed Lincoln that he was the largest slaveholder because the President “holds all the slaves of the District of Columbia.” This ended on paper in 1862. This war was about slavery but not in the commonly held beliefs that permeate the nonsense about the conflict in the government school systems. This war was about the Union grasp at codifying a new kind of slavery just as awful as chattel or indentured servitude. The object was to chain tax cattle to a regime that could rob them at will and ultimately using every power at its disposal to drain a person’s resources and at worst cage and murder them when it saw fit. The essential result of the horrific conflict was to out everyone on the plantation under any Constitutionally protected” territory or state. Go guerrilla indeed, what would the future have wrought? Poster Comment: "The birth of Empire. Not a damned living soul has lived under the Constitution as it was intended in 1787-1791 – or at least as it was said to be intended."
Post Comment Private Reply Ignore Thread
Top • Page Up • Full Thread • Page Down • Bottom/Latest
Comments (1-28) not displayed.
.
.
.
#29. To: Lod, Jethro Tull (#28)
Plans for Operation Downfall are available in great detail on the internet. Most estimates of American dead as a result of an invasion of Japan were for at least 500,000, and up to 1,000,000 wounded. The estimated time for wars end was variable, most military people thought it would be at least two more years. Japanese dead estimates were for more than 2,000,000. Our "ally" Russia was preparing their own invasion of Northern Japan, even though they had a peace treaty with Japan, one that promised they would NOT invade Japan. Many factors involved in A bombing Japan. Morality had no part in it. It was numbers, some of them die, or millions of both sides die in the carnage. Cold blooded numbers.
I mean in the UK, like I said. Amurricans wouldn't know where or what Dresden is if their banal little lives depended on it. What are the chances that even half of the Amurrican troops in active duty could find the country they're molesting on a map? If this is 2013, it must be Pakistan.
Cold blooded numbers. It sounds like you're agreeing that it was amoral and indefensible. Hope so. Gratuitous -- that's the word for both Japan and Dresden, yeah! Isn't it alleged Dresden was partly a test of the latest killing methods? You know, like the Nazis are accused of testing medical techniques on poor pitiful Jew campgoers.
wrong, wrong and wrong. Check the numbers again. You have a DECISION TO MAKE. Do you go with several millions dead or half a million?????
Even more so because the entire intent, and for the first time in history therefore breaking an unwritten rule of warfare, a civilian populace was deliberately targeted for no military or strategic reason whatsoever. It was purely to demoralize the populace. In Japan the intent was to end the war, which of course it did. It's debatable, given the unknown death tallies, whether it saved lives or did not. Insofar as Dresden goes, there's no debate about much of anything there except for how big a psychos the allies are, particularly given that it breached a barrier that today has seen the few remaining barriers of decency and civility eradicated entirely.
“The most dangerous man to any government is the man who is able to think things out... without regard to the prevailing superstitions and taboos. Almost inevitably he comes to the conclusion that the government he lives under is dishonest, insane, intolerable.” ~ H. L. Mencken
Gotcha. I don't think that most people in this country can even name the three major allied nations or the two primary axis nations during WWII, any relevant facts about the civil war much less the truth about the reason for it, or be able to identify at least 25% of the states on a US map. Among other things like being able to state the three branches of government.
Don't tell me you're trotting out this old saw that we had to bomb Hiroshima and Nagasaki. If not for President Rosenfeld's warmongering they never would have bombed us -- it's that simple. As it is, we go down as one of the most barbarous entities that ever lived on earth. Countries are like people. Those that see properly to their own affairs and don't invite trouble have far less of it on average. There was never any valid reason for us to fire a single shot in Asia or Europe -- never. And some things never change, including that. What the world needed most from us from the beginning was a message by example that war is not the answer. What they get instead is a country that simply can't stop bombing, invading, raping, looting, killing. Bravo for Colorado, Lod. More fuel for the flames!
Katniss: That's interesting, I didn't know that. The Bombing of Nagasaki August 9, 1945: The Un-Censored Version the massive Cathedral was one of two Nagasaki landmarks that the Bock’s Car bombardier had been briefed on, and looking through his bomb site 31,000 feet overhead, he identified the cathedral through a break in the clouds and ordered the drop. At 11:02 am, during morning mass, Since the Cathedral was the epicenter of the blast, most Nagasaki Christians did not survive. The Bombing of Nagasaki August 9, 1945. Unwelcome Truths for Church and State The Bock’s Car crew had instructions to drop the bomb only with visual sighting. But [the city of] Kokura was clouded over. So after making three failed bomb runs [...], the plane headed for its secondary target, Nagasaki. here is one of the important points of this article: What the Japanese Imperial government could not do in over 200 years of persecution (destroy Japanese Christianity) American[s] did in 9 seconds. ------- "They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
Grey! Fantastic. Thanks -- didn't have any of that. Further proof that (among other ghastly things) government is really this country's God, and one of our favorite pursuits is smashing the real God in the face with a sledgehammer. THANK YOU, President Rosenfeld, even 70 years afterward, for this further evidence that your kind are vile beyond belief. You too, Prexy Wilson/Wolfsohn -- Rosie's doppelganger of two decades previous. We rake the muck here and it's ugly and malodorous, but ahh the beauty of truth. What a privilege -- what an adventure!
Thanks Grey, that's highly interesting. Those two reads will be my readings for the day!
LOL
Every little screech like this one fails to note the obvious...the southern states were in rebellion...the militia had been legally called forth to suppress the rebellion and such states would be subject to martial law which includes dictates of a supreme commander. Lincoln, as Commander in Chief, most certainly had it within his power to dictate legal terms to those states in rebellion. --Fuck your breath.
Katniss: LOL ~ROOSEVELT’S REAL JEWISH FAMILY NAME WAS ROSENFELD/ROSENVELT~THE RABBIT HOLE IS DEEP~ A "triumvirate" of Kamenev, Grigory Zinoviev, and Josef Stalin assumed tacit control of the [Communist] Party and state in 1923 Lev Kamenev - Wikipedia served briefly as the first head of state of Soviet Russia in 1917, and from 1923-24 the acting Premier in the last year of Vladimir Lenin's life. Kamenev was the brother-in-law of Leon Trotsky. During Lenin's illness, Kamenev was the acting Council of People's Commissars and Politburo chairman. Together with Zinoviev and Joseph Stalin, he formed a ruling 'triumvirate' (or 'troika') in the Communist Party Edited formatting. ------- "They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
The militia? Lincoln called forth Major Anderson [of the Federal Army] and company to be expectedly sacrificed in South Carolina/at Fort Sumter for his war agenda. Edit sentence 2 + to cross-reference discussion info on Lincoln's War at Title: Judge Napolitano: Lincoln Set About On The Most Murderous War In American History ------- "They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
The Naval blockade of Japan was working and Japan was moving to surrender because of that. Dropping the bombs robbed our Navy of their victory, imo, for expansion marketing of "The Manhattan Project" -- so that nuclear development would continue to be funded and supported by the "spectacular" effects observed: Atomic bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki - Wikipedia Edited spelling. ------- "They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
THE DECISION TO BOMB HIROSHIMA & NAGASAKI "It should be used on a military installation surrounded by houses or other buildings most susceptible to damage; "It should be used without explicit warning of the nature of the bomb." Those were the words of the "Interim Committee of the Manhattan Project" in May, 1945. This was the group in charge of building the first atomic bomb. The Target Committee of the Manhattan project believed it was desirable that the first use of the bomb be (according to notes, memos and documents formerly classified top secret for a generation) "sufficiently spectacular for the importance of the weapon to be internationally recognized when publicity on it was released." Already the Japanese were looking for terms of surrender, but these approaches for peace from Japan, not made public, even to members of the Manhattan Project, were ignored. The U.S. wanted no terms, no conditions; not even the safety of the Emperor could be guaranteed (although that request was granted, after the two atom bombs were dropped). Japan had to surrender immediately and unconditionally - the U.S. knowing full well that Japan could never go for that. (Add'l evidence, in square brackets, added 1999): [That there really were surrender overtures by the Japanese was confirmed by a man who ought to know, CIA chief Allen Dulles. In an interview with Clifford Evans (1/19/63 (NY) WOR-TV), Dulles said: "I had been in touch with certain Japanese.... They...were ready to surrender provided the Emperor could be saved so as to have unity in Japan. I took that word to Secretary (of State) Stimson at Potsdam July 20, 1945...." [Just weeks later, August 6 and August 9, Hiroshima and Nagasaki were bombed.] most of Japan's navy had been destroyed, all its Axis allies were defeated, and its hold on the Pacific had been broken. For Truman, the real issue was that only a show of actual destruction from the bomb's use would serve to warn the USSR of the new formidable military power of the U.S. No harmless academic "demonstration" far from life would do. The U.S. Congress (which is supposed to run the show) had been kept in total ignorance of the Manhattan Project, even though the War Department, by trying to disguise it in various budgets, spent $2 billion on it. As time wore on, Congress grew aggressive and suspicious. What's it all for? came the demands. On August 6th and 9th, as Einstein bitterly noted then, Truman showed Congress that it got its money's worth; At the expense of nearly a quarter-million lives (including U.S. prisoners of war in Japanese target areas), Truman's overkill took the Congressional heat off himself. On the list of possible targets were Kokura, Hiroshima, Niigata and Kyoto [My note: Nagasaki was substituted for Kyoto because Henry L. Stimson, the Secretary of War, objected to targeting the old capitol of Kyoto]. The documents read that Hiroshima "has the advantage of being such a size and with possible focusing from nearby mountains that a large fraction of the city may be destroyed." All targets on the list I were then "reserved," and no conventional bombing was to be permitted there. [My note: However, Nagasaki was a secondary target and had already been conventionally bombed about 5 times previously.] The desire was that there be little or no prior bomb damage. For example, the damage already done to Tokyo by regular bombing would detract from the "spectacular" effect and measurement of the bomb's true power. Tokyo was thus excluded from the target list.. Other targets were debated, without conscience, on how "flat" they were so as to show the full ability of the bomb's blast to spread through a city Edited formatting. ------- "They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
Quoting Napolitino as some sort of authority is a non-starter with me,
--Fuck your breath.
I wasn't quoting Napolitano. I linked a thread with his name in the title to reference discussion info there on the topic as needed and for continuity. Edited to expand statement. ------- "They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
THE DECISION TO BOMB HIROSHIMA & NAGASAKI - linked source at Post #45. Excerpt: Those were the words of the "Interim Committee of the Manhattan Project" in May, 1945. This was the group in charge of building the first atomic bomb. The Bombing of Nagasaki August 9, 1945: The Un-Censored Version - linked source at Post #37. Excerpt: At 11:02 am, during morning mass, Since the Cathedral was the epicenter of the blast, most Nagasaki Christians did not survive. 2 second "warning" or less: Atomic bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki - linked Wikipedia source at Post #44. Excerpts: At 11:01, a last-minute break in the clouds over Nagasaki allowed Bockscar's bombardier ... to visually sight the target as ordered. It exploded 47 seconds later ... above a tennis court halfway between the Mitsubishi Steel and Arms Works in the south and the Mitsubishi-Urakami Ordnance Works (Torpedo Works) in the north. ... nearly 3 km (1.9 mi) northwest of the planned hypocenter The Manhattan Project - U.S. Department of Energy A reference cited at the bottom of that .gov page for the Manhattan Project: Paul Saffo's essay "The Road from Trinity: Reflections on the Atom Bomb"; Intended for Nagasaki’s center, Fat Man missed its aiming point by over a mile. The third bomb of the atomic Trinity exploded in searing Pentecostal fire over the Catholic neighborhoods of Uragami. Warriors from a Christian nation had just nuked the largest cathedral in Asia. It is tempting to wonder if Nagasaki’s cloud-kami or Trinity¹s ironic ghosts had nudged the bombardier’s hand, for the geometry of the Uragami Valley also ensured that Suwa-jinja, Nagasaki’s largest Shinto shrine, was utterly untouched by the blast. Had Fat Man imploded over the intended AP [alleged Aiming Point?], Suwa-jinja would have disappeared as just so much cedar tinder in the ensuing atomic firestorm. The officially cited Saffo source and Wikipedia both assert/speculate that the Nagasaki bomb missed an unspecific target by more than a mile. But the Manhattan Project's DOE/OSTI .gov page doesn't make that claim -- just likewise shutters their array of Nagasaki targets imprecisely, spinning whatever/whomever was hit with the most force as something of a lucky break in the cloudcover by happenstance; then vaguely and indifferently alludes to a more commercial and urban residential southerly point, which would probably have greatly maximized that city's casualties and damages...unless bomb shelter occupancies and evacuation precautions were possibly arranged there in advance for high numbers of so privileged persons there, whether loudly or secretively alerted, I'd suppose hypothetically. What's evidently discernable from those sources is that the Project Management's mission objective wasn't some centralized dropzone over the city generally (e.g. landscape "geometry"/interference issue) and it wasn't to aim at a tiny tennis court or a stadium as a decidedly optimal halfway-point between the Mitsubishi facilities. Even the one that's most directly stated to have been a Pearl Harbor Attack manufacturer was reportedly upwards of 2 miles from an unidentified planned target. Reference not only the lack of any confirmation about target-missing at the Manhattan Project site (linked here above) but also: This is not to endorse Saffo's camouflaging-propaganda attempt to shift responsibility for the Nagasaki cathedral strike away from the Manhattan Project and soley onto the nation of America and its WWII flyers as an attack on Christians by Christians. Although war actions of Christians against Christians haven't been uncommon historically, the n-bombing of Japan was Manhattan Project propelled and not Christian propelled -- even though Christians were involved, among others, knowingly and willingly or not. This is for remembrance of how far removed the Manhattan Project was from Christian Concept affiliation: J. Robert Oppenheimer: "I am become Death, the destroyer of worlds." Grammar edits + formatting and to include a link for: Trinity (nuclear test) - Wikipedia ------- "They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
Oppenheimer and his fellow jews working on the project were feeding daily information on their progress directly to Stalin. The youngest spy was Ted Hall, jew, only 19 years olde. He was never fried and spent the rest of his worthless life in Europe.
Thanks for your input on that. I think America was held hostage by the Great Depression orchestrators until it was agreed to supply those like Oppenheimer, who wanted to develop n-weaponry, with the uranium and funding they requested. Likely they had floated their dastardly plan roundabout in Europe/Eurasia before here in the U.S. Wouldn't surprise me if Stalin knew about it before FDR did and thought it would be a grand idea for our country to become hugely indebted by that "Science Project". Saw a documentary some time ago on the Venona Papers/Project about Soviet spies within the Manhattan Project and America is still being undermined by Communism. HUAC/the House Un-American Activities Committee should not have been dissolved. Gus Hall was Chairman of the Communist Party USA. Might be they were related. Here's an article on another Communist by the last name of Hall -- an Olympic silver medalist and Dem. State of Ohio legislator (who eventually changed to the Republican Party but undoubtedly was still a Communist): Olympic medalist and spy suspect Sam Hall dies at 77 -- September 4, 2014 His father was a Mayor of Dayton and his brother, Tony Hall, a Dem. U.S. Rep. from Ohio [also a UN Ambassador, etc.], secured his release from Nicaragua where he was jailed as a spy suspect for 49 days. Edited spelling and punctuation. ------- "They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
Great package, Grey. wicked pedia tells an opposite story on Sam Hall, quite possibly a lying one: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sam_Hall_(diver) It now seems we were wrong about Nicaragua the whole time, but I would have fully agreed with Sam's anti-communism back then ('80s and early '90s). Even the "good" impulses of a spoiled rich country like ours end up causing nothing but trouble half the time! Ha, "Arvo Kustaa Halberg" -- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gus_Hall
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sam_Hall_(diver) It now seems we were wrong about Nicaragua the whole time, but I would have fully agreed with Sam's anti-communism back then ('80s and early '90s). Even the "good" impulses of a spoiled rich country like ours end up causing nothing but trouble half the time! Ha, "Arvo Kustaa Halberg" -- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gus_Hall Thanks and for providing those references. I didn't know that was Gus Hall's real name. Apologies if the Sam Hall in my post wasn't a Communist and I mistakenly confused him with the one below of the same name but from a different State. (Am still leery, though, about his brother Tony's stationings at the mostly Commie UN.) Sam Hall, Communist - pg. 147: The History of the North Carolina Communist Party by Gregory S. Taylor Parenthesis edit. ------- "They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
Of course! I wondered if there was another political Sam Hall in the mix.
I tried to check if Communist Sam Hall was a relative of Gus Hall's but the name Sam associated with his in websearch results is Sam Webb, who was his successor. ------- "They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
Don't forget about the first person of their unholy trinity: Abraham Lincoln. For several years, 4 of every 5 editions were dedicated at least in part to exalting that mass murderer. Then a couple of years ago they switched over to Reagan/Churchill idolatry, and I thought that perhaps their formerly incessant philosiminianism was only a case of temporary monkey love. But the latest issue (March 2015) disabused me of that foolish notion, and it appears that they were only recoiling a little that they might strike the better. Lincoln is again the Supreme One, from whose mouth and pen flow rivers of wisdom and righteousness. The ape and/or his memorial are mentioned 16 times. And in the spirit of trinitarian propriety, Churchill and Reagan also garner a couple of mentions each. Oh, and the statue of liberty -- "the greatest light since the Star of Bethlehem." Have a five gallon emetic bucket handy when you read it, especially the last two sentences: ".. the moral regeneration of America that (Frank) Capra had hoped to bring about will require more than a Capra. It will require a Lincoln."
Whew, Strait, that's the limit!!! You've trumped them all in exposing perfervid Lincolnolatry! I see it here -- thanks https://imprimis.hillsdale.edu/frank-capras-america-and-ours/ I was overwhelmed by Mr. Smith Goes to Washington seeing it as a teenager and wrote the director. Would be afraid to look at it now. He was both extremely right about the American ideal and drastically wrong about amerikan reality even then. Uggghhhh...... en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Why_We_Fight Well! en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frank_Capra#Political_beliefs Every man has his price, huh.... I see Mr. Smith was released 10/17/39, ironically enough a few weeks after America declared its WW2 neutrality and a few days before the "First meeting of the U.S. Advisory Committee on Uranium under Lyman James Briggs, authorized by President Roosevelt to oversee neutron experiments, a precursor of the Manhattan Project." Yes I'll readily opine we never should have messed with nukes. Never! Just another way we've led the world into more instead of less misery and death. OK, somebody, hit me with your best shot. Fire away.
OK, somebody, hit me with your best shot. Fire away. A "Ron Paul Goes to Washington" Presidential Campaign Flashback: CAMELOT CASTLE - A SONG for RON PAUL from CAMELOT CASTLE P.S. Would have been best to edit out those Lincoln thematics, imo. ------- "They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
NeoconsNailed at #56: Mr. Smith [Goes to Washington] was released 10/17/39, ironically enough a few weeks after America declared its WW2 neutrality and a few days before the "First meeting of the U.S. Advisory Committee on Uranium under Lyman James Briggs, authorized by President Roosevelt to oversee neutron experiments, a precursor of the Manhattan Project." en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1939 Yes I'll readily opine we never should have messed with nukes. Never! Just another way we've led the world into more instead of less misery and death. Thank you for posting that important info. Here's some data confirmations: Lyman James Briggs - Wikipedia In 1939, President Franklin Roosevelt called on Briggs, by then aged 65, to head "The Uranium Committee", a secret project to investigate the atomic fission of uranium progress was slow and was not directed exclusively towards military applications. Eugene Wigner said that "We often felt we were swimming in syrup". Boris Pregel said "It is wonder that after so many blunders and mistakes anything was accomplished at all". Leó Szilárd believed that the project was delayed for a least a year by the short-sightedness and sluggishness of the authorities. At the time Briggs ... was unable to take the energetic action that was often needed. Britain was at war and felt an atomic bomb should have the highest priority, especially because the Germans might soon have one; but the US was not at war at that time and many Americans did not want to get involved. One of the members of the MAUD Committee, Marcus Oliphant flew to the United States in late August 1941 in an unheated bomber to find out why the United States was ignoring the MAUD Committee's findings. Oliphant said that: "The minutes and reports had been sent to Lyman Briggs, who was the Director of the Uranium Committee, and we were puzzled to receive virtually no comment. I called on Briggs in Washington, only to find out that this inarticulate and unimpressive man had put the reports in his safe and had not shown them to members of his committee. I was amazed and distressed." Oliphant then met the whole Uranium Committee. Samuel K. Allison was a new committee member, "Oliphant came to a meeting", Allison recalls, "and said 'bomb' in no uncertain terms. He told us we must concentrate every effort on the bomb and said we had no right to work on power plants or anything but the bomb. The bomb would cost 25 million dollars, he said, and Britain did not have the money or the manpower, so it was up to us." Allison was surprised that Briggs had kept the committee in the dark. Oliphant visited other physicists to galvanise the USA into action. As a result, in December 1941 Vannevar Bush, director of the powerful Office of Scientific Research and Development, undertook to launch a full-scale effort to develop atomic bombs. As the scale of the project became clearer, it came under direct military control as the Manhattan Project. MAUD Committee - Wikipedia S-1 Uranium Committee - Wikipedia World War II began with the German invasion of Poland on September 1, 1939, prompting Albert Einstein and Leó Szilárd to complete a letter to U.S. President Franklin Delano Roosevelt they had been working on over the summer. This letter was signed by Einstein on August 2, and it was hand-delivered to Roosevelt by the economist Alexander Sachs on October 11, 1939. The letter advised Roosevelt of the existence of the German nuclear energy project and warned that it was likely the Germans were working on an atomic bomb using uranium, and that the U.S. should be concerned about locating sources of uranium and researching nuclear weapon technology. At this time the U.S. policy was neutral in the war. Experiments with the fission of uranium were already going on at universities and research institutes in the United States. Harry Truman, Vannevar and Prescott Bush. The Hit on Japan. - sodahead.com In August 1942, the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers established the Manhattan Engineer District (MED), also known as the Manhattan Project, Edited formatting + to expand next to last link section ------- "They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
Oh, no -- it (#57) starts with MLK? Anything but that!!! Sentimental journey though -- thx.
No connection mentioned -- doesn't mean there isn't one. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vannevar_Bush
The South was the first victim of the Empire......
"The government ruling us draws its authority not from the principles of the Declaration of Independence, or even from the delegate powers listed in the U.S. Constitution, but rather from the war to re-conquer the independent South. That conflict, usually referred to by the artfully misleading title “Civil War,” established the fact that the government in Washington is willing to kill Americans in whatever quantity it deems necessary in order to enforce its edicts, and then sanctify the slaughter in the name of some suitably “progressive” social objective.
“The most dangerous man to any government is the man who is able to think things out... without regard to the prevailing superstitions and taboos. Almost inevitably he comes to the conclusion that the government he lives under is dishonest, insane, intolerable.” ~ H. L. Mencken
Have a five gallon emetic bucket handy when you read it, especially the last two sentences: ".. the moral regeneration of America that (Frank) Capra had hoped to bring about will require more than a Capra. It will require a Lincoln." Yeah, I mentioned Lincoln in 18. what do we expect though from someone with those credentials, they're mired in establishment politics. Anyone approaching that on the basis that the foundation is not flawed can only come up with conclusions well outside the bounds of reality. The vast majority of Americans believe that, it's stunning. Many agree on the symptoms, but on the playing field handed to them by the government, not on one that makes any holistic sense.
Still not getting the semi-colon *thingie*, eh? --Fuck your breath.
Facts never require an apology but that wasn't the first shot of the crybabies who wanted to own slaves...that happened when some brats at the Citadel fired on a US ship that was in waters that it had every right to navigate. --Fuck your breath.
Anyone approaching that on the basis that the foundation is not flawed can only come up with conclusions well outside the bounds of reality. The vast majority of Americans believe that, it's stunning. Many agree on the symptoms, but on the playing field handed to them by the government, not on one that makes any holistic sense. Well said, Katniss, and I agree with you 100%. Even here in the South the brainwashing has been extremely effective. When I asked a former boss of mine who had attended government schools from K-12 in Georgia, "What did they teach you about Abraham Lincoln?", he answered, "That Abraham Lincoln was the greatest president in U.S. history."
But, without nukes "we" might not have been able to win WWJew for the communists! The US was almost out of conventional bombs near the end of the war; that's why "we" could drop only about 14 billion tons of them on Dresden. What are you, some kind of anti-semite, or something? Note: I use "we" in quotation marks not for emphasis, but to indicate that I do not consider the armed forces of the US government to be mine.
Major Anderson at Fort Sumter was Pro-Slavery and from Kentucky -- one of the Union's slave States throughout the war. Edited punctuation. ------- "They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
Comments (69 - 204) not displayed.
Top • Page Up • Full Thread • Page Down • Bottom/Latest
#30. To: Katniss (#27)
#31. To: Cynicom (#29)
(Edited)
Morality had no part in it. It was numbers, some of them die, or millions of both sides die in the carnage.
#32. To: NeoconsNailed (#31)
It sounds like you're agreeing that it was amoral and indefensible.
#33. To: Lod (#28)
To me, the destruction of Dresden was just as gratuitous as was that of Japan.
#34. To: Cynicom (#29)
more here -
#35. To: NeoconsNailed (#30)
#36. To: Cynicom (#32)
(Edited)
#37. To: Katniss, NeoconsNailed (#23)
NeoconsNailed: Remember, Nagasaki and Hiroshima happened to have unusually large Christian presence for Japan.
Nagasaki was the most Christian city in Japan and ground zero was the largest cathedral in the Orient. [St. Mary’s, Urakami River district]
The first and only field test of an atomic bomb had been blasphemously code-named “Trinity” (a distinctly Christian term).
#38. To: GreyLmist (#37)
#39. To: GreyLmist (#37)
#40. To: NeoconsNailed (#38)
President Rosenfeld
#41. To: X-15 (#0)
(Edited)
#42. To: Katniss, NeoconsNailed (#40)
(Edited)
NeoconsNailed: President Rosenfeld
KAMENEV, LEV BORISOVICH - encyclopedia.com Born July 18, 1883, in Moscow and raised in Tbilisi, Lev Borisovich Rosenfeld entered the revolutionary movement while studying law at Moscow University. In 1901 he joined the Russian Social Democratic Labor Party (RSDLP) and adopted the pseudonym Kamenev ("man of stone").
born Rozenfeld
#43. To: war (#41)
(Edited)
the militia had been legally called forth to suppress the rebellion
#44. To: Cynicom (#29)
(Edited)
some of them die, or millions of both sides die in the carnage.
The Target Committee stated that "It was agreed that psychological factors in the target selection were of great importance. Two aspects of this are (1) obtaining the greatest psychological effect against Japan and (2) making the initial use sufficiently spectacular for the importance of the weapon to be internationally recognized when publicity on it is released.
#45. To: All (#44)
(Edited)
The Naval blockade of Japan was working and Japan was moving to surrender because of that. Dropping the bombs robbed our Navy of their victory, imo, for expansion marketing of "The Manhattan Project" -- so that nuclear development would continue to be funded and supported by the "spectacular" effects observed:
"It should be used as soon as possible;
#46. To: GreyLmist (#43)
#47. To: war (#46)
(Edited)
Quoting Napolitino as some sort of authority is a non-starter with me,
#48. To: All (#37)
(Edited)
"It should be used without explicit warning of the nature of the bomb."
ordered the drop.
at 11:00, The Great Artiste [an observation aircraft on each mission; role: blast measurement instrumentation] dropped instruments attached to three parachutes. These instruments also contained an unsigned letter to Professor Ryokichi Sagane, a physicist at the University of Tokyo who studied with three of the scientists responsible for the atomic bomb at the University of California, Berkeley, urging him to tell the public about the danger involved with these weapons of mass destruction. The messages were found by military authorities but not turned over to Sagane until a month later.
[OSTI - Office of Scientific and Technical Information]
https://www.osti.gov/manhattan- project-history/Events/1945/nagasaki.htm At the last moment the bombardier, ... caught a brief glimpse of the city's stadium through the clouds and dropped the bomb. At 11:02 a.m. ... A small conventional raid on Nagasaki on August 1st had resulted in a partial evacuation of the city, especially of school children. There were still almost 200,000 people in the city below the bomb when it exploded. ... almost exactly between two of the principal targets in the city, the Mitsubishi Steel and Arms Works to the south, and the Mitsubishi-Urakami Torpedo Works (left) to the north. Had the bomb exploded farther south the residential and commercial heart of the city would have suffered much greater damage. ... The official Manhattan Engineer District report on the attack termed the damage to the two Mitsubishi plants "spectacular."
this is available on Paul Saffo's web site at
http://www.saffo.com/essays/
the-road-from-trinity-reflections-on-the- atom-bomb/ Chapter 3: Nagasaki - Excerpt
http://www.saffo.com/essays/
the-road-from-trinity-reflections-on-the- atom-bomb-3/ the strike damage being assesed therein as "spectacular" rather than militarily strategic ... the Allied POWs in the blast vicinities not even noticed to be worth a counting as deliberately lost and wounded (or any mention of them at all) ... and the catastrophic, ground zero civilian casualties (ironically, in a particularly Trinity Observant area: the Urakami district of Christianity) denoted very like an afterthought -- only in terms of their presumed collective lesserness as a better outcome (regardless of being a Christian Categorical ELE/Extinction Level "Event" there) than some other place closer to the more business-oriented sectors, where higher casualty and property damage factors might have computationally transmuted into a negative impact on the Manhattan Project's international-marketing goals by overly much "Shock&Awe" of the financial sort, possibly deterring prospective investors somewhat.
#49. To: GreyLmist (#48)
(Edited)
J. Robert Oppenheimer:
#50. To: Cynicom (#49)
(Edited)
Oppenheimer and his fellow jews working on the project were feeding daily information on their progress directly to Stalin.
The youngest spy was Ted Hall, jew, only 19 years olde. He was never fried and spent the rest of his worthless life in Europe.
The [alleged] 1972 massacre of 11 Israeli Olympic athletes in Munich shocked Mr. Hall and led him to his counterterrorism [spy] activities, said his old friend Bonbright, 78.
#51. To: GreyLmist (#50)
#52. To: NeoconsNailed, Cynicom (#51)
(Edited)
Great package, Grey. wicked pedia tells an opposite story on Sam Hall, quite possibly a lying one:
#53. To: GreyLmist (#52)
#54. To: NeoconsNailed (#53)
Of course! I wondered if there was another political Sam Hall in the mix.
#55. To: NeoconsNailed, Katniss (#18)
Churchill worship.... anybody looked at Imprimis lately? It seems to be one big fossilized Churchill and Reagan worship cult. ewwww, GROSS!
#56. To: StraitGate (#55)
#57. To: NeoconsNailed, StraitGate (#56)
(Edited)
I was overwhelmed by Mr. Smith Goes to Washington seeing it as a teenager and wrote the director. Would be afraid to look at it now.
#58. To: NeoconsNailed, Cynicom (#56)
(Edited)
Me at #50: I think America was held hostage by the Great Depression orchestrators until it was agreed to supply those like Oppenheimer, who wanted to develop n-weaponry, with the uranium and funding they requested. Likely they had floated their dastardly plan roundabout in Europe/Eurasia before here in the U.S.
director of the National Bureau of Standards during the Great Depression and chairman of the Uranium Committee before America entered the Second World War.
The Maud Committee (Military Application of Uranium Detonation) was the beginning of the British atomic bomb project, before the United Kingdom joined forces with the United States in the Manhattan Project. It prompted the USA to begin its own atomic bomb project.
a Committee of the National Defense Research Committee that succeeded the Briggs Advisory Committee on Uranium and later evolved into the Manhattan Project.
Was Vannevar Bush related to Prescott Bush? Records do not come up. Intentionally blocked. But it is clear Vannevar was working on the Manhattan Project. How could he not know Prescott? Prescott was in charge of Financing the Manhattan Project.
#59. To: GreyLmist (#57)
(Edited)
#60. To: GreyLmist (#58)
#61. To: X-15 (#0)
#62. To: Rube Goldberg, Rebs, 4 (#61)
#63. To: StraitGate, NeoconsNailed (#55)
Don't forget about the first person of their unholy trinity: Abraham Lincoln. For several years, 4 of every 5 editions were dedicated at least in part to exalting that mass murderer. Then a couple of years ago they switched over to Reagan/Churchill idolatry, and I thought that perhaps their formerly incessant philosiminianism was only a case of temporary monkey love. But the latest issue (March 2015) disabused me of that foolish notion, and it appears that they were only recoiling a little that they might strike the better. Lincoln is again the Supreme One, from whose mouth and pen flow rivers of wisdom and righteousness. The ape and/or his memorial are mentioned 16 times. And in the spirit of trinitarian propriety, Churchill and Reagan also garner a couple of mentions each. Oh, and the statue of liberty -- "the greatest light since the Star of Bethlehem."
John Marini, a professor of political science at the University of Nevada, Reno, is a graduate of San Jose State University and earned his Ph.D. in government at the Claremont Graduate School. He has also taught at Agnes Scott College, Ohio University, and the University of Dallas. He is on the board of directors of the Claremont Institute for the Study of Statesmanship and Political Philosophy and a member of the Nevada Advisory Committee of the U.S. Civil Rights Commission.
#64. To: Katniss (#63)
Yeah, I mentioned Lincoln in 18. what do we expect though from someone with those credentials, they're mired in establishment politics.
#65. To: X-15 (#0)
At least the South fought to fight a just war in defending their own soil from invasion. I am amused at Union apologists who claim that the South fired the first shot at Fort Sumter.
#66. To: Katniss (#63)
Yeah, I mentioned Lincoln in 18. what do we expect though from someone with those credentials, they're mired in establishment politics.
#67. To: NeoconsNailed (#56)
Yes I'll readily opine we never should have messed with nukes. Never! Just another way we've led the world into more instead of less misery and death. OK, somebody, hit me with your best shot. Fire away.
#68. To: war (#65)
(Edited)
that wasn't the first shot of the crybabies who wanted to own slaves...that happened when some brats at the Citadel fired on a US ship that was in waters that it had every right to navigate.
.
.
.